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(Reuters)   Boeing's then-chief technical pilot of the 737 Max warned of egregious handling in simulators. Says he might have (unintentionally) done some light lying to the FAA   (reuters.com) divider line
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    More: Followup, Federal Aviation Administration, 2010s, Marion Blakey, Plane, Southwest Airlines, 2016, Instant messages, safety of the MCAS software  
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2933 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2019 at 7:49 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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Gubbo [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (14)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 7:52:48 PM  
Boeing really should be sued into oblivion over this.

But I'm sure a light slap on the wrist and a promise to do better next time will probably suffice.
 
omg bbq [OhFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 7:54:44 PM  
Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.
 
imauniter [OhFark]  
Smartest (7)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 7:55:43 PM  
If they had all just been honest and fixed their shiat right. If I were buying a plane or 10, I certainly wouldn't trust this company any time soon.
 
JuggleGeek [OhFark]  
Smartest (13)   Funniest (1)  
2019-10-18 7:56:09 PM  
So in addition to writing software that takes control away from the pilots, then aims the plane at the ground, they also made a point of removing any warning about that from the manual.

I suppose we should be glad they didn't just install bombs on the plane.
 
ChimpNipples  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 7:56:22 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.


There is a reason why intent matters in the eye of the law.
 
Flurching  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (2)  
2019-10-18 8:01:56 PM  
Boeing "MCAS makes the plane unflyable but it only activates rarely so it doesn't need to be in the manual"
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (6)  
2019-10-18 8:02:41 PM  
"Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious," Forkner said, according to a transcript reviewed by the Times.
"GRANTED, I SUCK AT FLYING, BUT EVEN THIS WAS EGREGIOUS"
Forkner, who is the chief technical pilot for the 737...

Oh.
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (6)  
2019-10-18 8:03:11 PM  
Well I suck at Farking on this tablet. That was supposed to be underlined.
 
thehobbes  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (7)  
2019-10-18 8:04:04 PM  
Those pilots text like teen girls.

theaircurrent.comView Full Size
 
The Dog Ate My Homework  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2019-10-18 8:07:58 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.


thatsmyfetish.gif
 
mrmopar5287  
Smartest (9)   Funniest (5)  
2019-10-18 8:08:43 PM  

omg bbq: Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
mrmopar5287  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:09:35 PM  

omg bbq: Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?


Serious answer: no.

But for that to be a real, believable answer, you'd have to have lots of convincing evidence that you actually, believably thought what you were saying was the truth.
 
HighlanderRPI  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (10)  
2019-10-18 8:11:19 PM  
Boeing test pilots:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
mrmopar5287  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (10)  
2019-10-18 8:11:27 PM  

JuggleGeek: I suppose we should be glad they didn't just install bombs on the plane.


Statistically that would make the plane safer. The odds of there being a bomb on a plane are so astronomically high, so if you intentionally install bomb on a plane the odds of their being TWO bombs on board a single plane are approaching infinity.
 
Mr. Shabooboo  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2019-10-18 8:16:31 PM  
It's a good thing those industries have the best interest of their customers in mind when they self
regulate! Just think how many people could have died with those pesky government regulations..
 
Znuh [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:17:35 PM  
So, where are the Boeing apologists now? 

Hm?
 
SloppyFrenchKisser  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (17)  
2019-10-18 8:29:09 PM  
bing.comView Full Size
 
Nick Nostril  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (1)  
2019-10-18 8:33:08 PM  
But really, is there anything that greed cannot accomplish?
 
soupafi  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (1)  
2019-10-18 8:35:43 PM  
 Bold prediction: Boeing will be bankrupt in 2020
 
Ivo Shandor [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:36:55 PM  

Gubbo: Boeing really should be sued into oblivion over this.

But I'm sure a light slap on the wrist and a promise to do better next time will probably suffice.


They're too big to fail. At most they would do a General Motors and let Old Boeing go bankrupt while everything else (minus the legal liabilities) carried on under a new corporate identity.
 
NotThatGuyAgain  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:39:09 PM  

soupafi: Bold prediction: Boeing will be bankrupt in 2020


Maybe, but they'd get bailed out.  They are too engrained in commercial and military aviation, among other things, to let that happen.  It would put a serious dent in our economy, too.
 
edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:39:18 PM  

puffy999: "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious," Forkner said, according to a transcript reviewed by the Times.
"GRANTED, I SUCK AT FLYING, BUT EVEN THIS WAS EGREGIOUS"
Forkner, who is the chief technical pilot for the 737...

Oh.


Don't worry, he doesn't suck. That tone reveals worry and frustration.
 
Kalashinator  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 8:53:01 PM  

soupafi: Bold prediction: Boeing will be bankrupt in 2020


Maybe just the division for civvie airliners.  Boeing Defense and their space stuff will be ok.
 
akede  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:01:28 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.


Don't make that mistake in a deposition...
 
WelldeadLink  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (3)  
2019-10-18 9:23:42 PM  

puffy999: Well I suck at Farking on this tablet. That was supposed to be underlined.


Oh, you got it right.
 
King Something  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:33:58 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.


In order for a false or misleading statement to be a lie, the person making the statement needs to know it's false or misleading before making the statement.

If, to the best of your knowledge, you think X is true, and you hold a press conference saying "X Is True!" or tell government regulators that X is true, but you find out after the fact that X is actually false, you will not have lied to the press or the government.


/results may vary based on your level of wealth
 
iron_city_ap  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:38:04 PM  
Since corporations are now 'people', will Trump pardon them, if given the opportunity?
 
sunilhari  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:39:43 PM  

thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]


Obviously, you've never talked to a real pilot
 
Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:43:22 PM  

Gubbo: Boeing really should be sued into oblivion over this.

But I'm sure a light slap on the wrist and a promise to do better next time will probably suffice.


I'd suggest it's approaching criminal liability, not simply fines.
 
ltdanman44 [BareFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:45:48 PM  

Gubbo: Boeing really should be sued into oblivion over this.


how come nobody is in jail?  hundreds dead and no accountability.

PROFITS OVER SAFETY
 
Needlessly Complicated  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 9:57:05 PM  

sunilhari: thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]

Obviously, you've never talked to a real pilot


Can confirm.

They are not supergeniuses. My brother flies for a well-known low-cost airline. I don't know the last time he's read a book that doesn't have to do with airplanes. He's also a Trumper and a world-class racist. He says insanely offensive things about his co-workers on Facebook, too. (Not sure how he gets away with that, tho.)


/sweet dreams
 
EyeHaveRisen  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 10:03:52 PM  
Jay Leno Survives Classic Car Flipping Over Multiple Times During Stunt Mishap
Youtube 18Ky4em9QZs


Bob Riggle - come on, I got this.  Let's do a wheelie

Trust no one
 
Marine1  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 10:12:05 PM  

ltdanman44: Gubbo: Boeing really should be sued into oblivion over this.

how come nobody is in jail?  hundreds dead and no accountability.

PROFITS OVER SAFETY


There's also the minor issue of them being the only major manufacturer of airliners (and the strategic USAF aircraft that often share the same designs) in the US. Lockheed doesn't do that kind of thing, MD was bought by Boeing 23 years ago, and Gulfstream just makes business jets.

There is a 0% chance a strategically-important company like that goes out of business.
 
mnemonic device  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (4)  
2019-10-18 10:28:52 PM  

sunilhari: thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]

Obviously, you've never talked to a real pilot


I missed the word "text" the first three times I read that and was trying to figure out how thehobbes came to that conclusion.
 
LarrySouth  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 10:32:00 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: sunilhari: thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]

Obviously, you've never talked to a real pilot

Can confirm.

They are not supergeniuses. My brother flies for a well-known low-cost airline. I don't know the last time he's read a book that doesn't have to do with airplanes. He's also a Trumper and a world-class racist. He says insanely offensive things about his co-workers on Facebook, too. (Not sure how he gets away with that, tho.)


/sweet dreams


Sounds like quite a few Farkers in the Pol tab...
 
MythDragon  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (4)  
2019-10-18 10:35:11 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?


There was one cupcake left. Supposed to go to the gf. I ate it. She walks in and sees an empty cupcake wrapper and crumbs on the coffee table. Says "did you eat the last cupcake?" I say "No." She gets mad and says "I thought we agreed never to lie to each other." I reply "Its not a lie if I know you know I'm lying. See, if you know it's a lie, and I already know you will know, then it cannot be a lie, since to lie is to purposefully obscure the truth, which I cannot do since you already know the truth, and I cant even attempt to do, since I already know you know."
She struggled to refute that in her mind for a minute, found she could not and then went and ate the last icecream bar I wanted.

I didn't ask her if she ate it when I found an empty wrapper in an empty box.
 
MythDragon  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 10:37:23 PM  

omg bbq: Serious question. Is it a lie if you don't know you're telling it?  If I said I was 41 but found out later I was actually 40 had I been telling lies my whole life or was I just wrong?

This is nothing to do with Boeing, fark them with a cat covered in razor blades.


Also
Pinnochio
Youtube 6CGyASDjE-U
 
WelldeadLink  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-18 10:48:04 PM  

sunilhari: thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]

Obviously, you've never talked to a real pilot


"Hey, can I, like, really land on that runway thingie with 35 on it? It looks like a really great place. Pretty please?"
 
HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2019-10-19 12:39:40 AM  
In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying".  But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job.
 
NotThatGuyAgain  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 12:55:54 AM  

HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying".  But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job.


To be fair, flying isn't his primary job.

As a Chief Technical Pilot you will perform as a chief technical consultant on the 747. In this role you will provide flight operations, safety and technical support to Boeing internal and external customers at multiple levels. While this role is not primarily a flying job, the selected applicant will still maintain qualification as a Boeing Captain on at least one aircraft model.

I imagine they want someone with better technical, communications, and people skills than, say, Chuck Yeager.  Can you imagine Chuck in a customer support role?  The thought makes me cackle.

https://lensa.com/747-chief-technical-pilot-jobs/renton/jd/901d0f7141e0b383e481dba9092fa846

/They're hiriing for one for the 747.
 
NotThatGuyAgain  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 12:59:30 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying".  But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job.

To be fair, flying isn't his primary job.

As a Chief Technical Pilot you will perform as a chief technical consultant on the 747. In this role you will provide flight operations, safety and technical support to Boeing internal and external customers at multiple levels. While this role is not primarily a flying job, the selected applicant will still maintain qualification as a Boeing Captain on at least one aircraft model.

I imagine they want someone with better technical, communications, and people skills than, say, Chuck Yeager.  Can you imagine Chuck in a customer support role?  The thought makes me cackle.

https://lensa.com/747-chief-technical-pilot-jobs/renton/jd/901d0f7141e0b383e481dba9092fa846

/They're hiriing for one for the 747.


As an after thought: the selected applicant will still maintain qualification as a Boeing Captain on at least one aircraft model.

He doesn't even need to maintain quals for the 737MAX, just some Boeing model.

/I'd love to get on a simulator
 
orbister  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 3:11:07 AM  

JuggleGeek: I suppose we should be glad they didn't just install bombs on the plane.


At least the manual doesn't say anything about bombs ...
 
Tillmaster  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 8:32:13 AM  

HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying".  But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job.


What aspect of 'self-deprecating humor' don't you understand?
 
aungen [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 8:37:33 AM  

thehobbes: Those pilots text like teen girls.

[theaircurrent.com image 834x1500]


That's guys trying to make the best of an extremely stressful situation. I've been there, though not with Boeing. You fall back on high school humor because it's safe and predictable and provides a sense of bonding even when being childishly mean.

I assume ppl understand that. But figured I'd mention it anyway. I've seen it everywhere I've worked, especially the extreme locations.
 
oopsboom  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 3:20:50 PM  

orbister: JuggleGeek: I suppose we should be glad they didn't just install bombs on the plane.

At least the manual doesn't say anything about bombs ...


To be fair, the manual didn't say anything about the MCAS flying it into the ground either...
 
Senor Piva  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 3:32:16 PM  

Kalashinator: soupafi: Bold prediction: Boeing will be bankrupt in 2020

Maybe just the division for civvie airliners.  Boeing Defense and their space stuff will be ok.


KC-46 would like a word...
 
4seasons85! [TotalFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 3:47:39 PM  

soupafi: Bold prediction: Boeing will be bankrupt in 2020


I don't think they're going to come out of this that easily.  I think they will take a major hit one way or another.
 
drewogatory  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-10-19 10:45:55 PM  

Tillmaster: HYSTERICAL SHRIEKING: In related news, the lead test pilot for the 737 Max claims to "suck at flying".  But then again the 737 Max also sucks at flying, so maybe he's the right guy for the job.

What aspect of 'self-deprecating humor' don't you understand?


Yeah, this is clearly: "I told them, they said it was me,but what do I know?"
 
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