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(USA Today)   The Grand Canyon's taxidermy show was hotter than anyone expected   (usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Occupational safety and health, Grand Canyon National Park, National Park Service, national park's museum collection building, park's safety director, Grand Canyon, uranium ore, Park Service employees  
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5250 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2019 at 9:48 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 8:42:18 AM  
Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

Stephenson said the uranium threat was discovered in March 2018 by the teenage son of a park employee who happened to be a Geiger counter  enthusiast, and brought a device to the museum collection room.

Morons. This nation is populated and controlled my morons.
It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.
 
UberDave [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 9:24:00 AM  
"The radiation readings, at first blush, exceeds (sic) the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's safe limits. ... Identifying who was exposed, and your exposure level, gets tricky and is our next important task."

The report indicated radiation levels at "13.9 mR/hr" where the buckets were stored, and "800 mR/hr" on contact with the ore. Just 5 feet from the buckets, there was a zero reading.



I couldn't get to this article.  The AZCentral article had plenty of good info.

For anyone wondering, identifying the exposed and their exposure level will involve (after finding the person), the individual giving a urine sample.  That will be sent off to a lab where they will determine an activity value.  The activity combined with the time since exposure will lead to a concentration and that can be calculated to an internal dose which gives a value in mR.  And with uranium, a "positive" value is an activity value above zero as there's a good chance many (if not most) of us will have an above zero activity value in our pee.

Even though the 800 mR/hr and 13.9 mR/hr readings are very close to the material, the material was exposed to the environment and may have spread all over the museum (I have a source within arms length from me that has been sitting here for months - ~30 mR/hr...but it is *sealed*).  The inspectors will take "swipes" or "smears" all over the museum.  These are done with little pads that are similar to those you use to remove makeup or for acne and they simply wipe up some dust with them.  These are put into a counting machine that will determine activity and this will give them a good map of how much this shiat spread all over the museum.  This will, in turn, give them a good idea of the exposure that both the museum visitors and workers received - most of that should be upper-thoracic/lung which basically translates to a whole body dose (CEDE - > TEDE).

Also, they did a survey with meters and that's what gives you the mR/hr - distance values for the buckets.  If anyone's kid picked up a rock and started playing with it for 10 minutes, that will give them an idea of the exposure they suffered.  You generally overestimate these "guess" values for safety.
 
UberDave [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 9:28:44 AM  

vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.


I know you're probably joking about the kid having one.  But they probably didn't have a properly calibrated meter (or one at all, granted).  You need one that has been calibrated with a proper source (i.e., one where you know what it is putting out).
 
2019-02-19 9:52:12 AM  
runt-of-the-web.comView Full Size
 
caljar  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 9:55:58 AM  

vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

Stephenson said the uranium threat was discovered in March 2018 by the teenage son of a park employee who happened to be a Geiger counter  enthusiast, and brought a device to the museum collection room.

Morons. This nation is populated and controlled my morons.
It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.


No one died, so I don't think it was the deadliest thing known to man.  it was just a rock collection, just don't stand less than 5 feet away.
 
2019-02-19 9:56:30 AM  
Link's farked.
 
pounddawg  
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2019-02-19 9:57:40 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
PunGent  
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2019-02-19 9:59:45 AM  

caljar: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

Stephenson said the uranium threat was discovered in March 2018 by the teenage son of a park employee who happened to be a Geiger counter  enthusiast, and brought a device to the museum collection room.

Morons. This nation is populated and controlled my morons.
It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.

No one died, so I don't think it was the deadliest thing known to man.  it was just a rock collection, just don't stand less than 5 feet away.


Or breathe any of the dust from the unsealed container, if you want a normal life expectancy...
 
flemardo  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 10:00:51 AM  
Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.
 
Destructor [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 10:01:59 AM  

flemardo: Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.


If it's just ore... Everyone should just calm the fark down.
 
guestguy  
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2019-02-19 10:03:16 AM  
When I die, I want my corpse to be taxidermied into the Burt Reynolds Playgirl pose.  Then everyone attending my funeral will be required to run their fingers through my chest hair...EVERYONE!
 
caljar  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 10:04:00 AM  

PunGent: caljar: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

Stephenson said the uranium threat was discovered in March 2018 by the teenage son of a park employee who happened to be a Geiger counter  enthusiast, and brought a device to the museum collection room.

Morons. This nation is populated and controlled my morons.
It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.

No one died, so I don't think it was the deadliest thing known to man.  it was just a rock collection, just don't stand less than 5 feet away.

Or breathe any of the dust from the unsealed container, if you want a normal life expectancy...


Yep, I wouldn't keep it in the house, but it isn't the deadliest thing known to man.
 
limboslam  
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2019-02-19 10:06:21 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Ok everybody, let's try to avoid the exhibits upstairs.....
 
Ecobuckeye  
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2019-02-19 10:07:59 AM  

flemardo: Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.


I like Canada, I really do - but between this link, the open pit asbestos mines in Quebec that mine "safe" white chrysotile and therefore don't need any breathing protection, and the absurd destruction of the Athabasca, I'm not taking their opinion on mineral exploitation.

I'll stick with the documented impact on the Navajo people who were exposed to the ore.

YELLOW DIRT: where the Navajo and U.S. government intersect....
Youtube WF0mvpXdYPI
 
rummonkey  
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2019-02-19 10:35:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
limboslam  
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2019-02-19 10:48:23 AM  

rummonkey: [img.fark.net image 425x625]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2019-02-19 11:09:16 AM  
I've heard it's totally rad.
 
Carthax  
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2019-02-19 11:20:58 AM  

flemardo: Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.


Seriously.  You could sleep with a chunk under your pillow for years before it became a problem if it's just ore.  If it's refined in any way, well, then, all bets are off.
 
vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 11:53:44 AM  

UberDave: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

I know you're probably joking about the kid having one.  But they probably didn't have a properly calibrated meter (or one at all, granted).  You need one that has been calibrated with a proper source (i.e., one where you know what it is putting out).


Jesus H tittysucking christ.
There is a gift shop right there.
Grab an unopened roll of film and see if it is already exposed.
 
2019-02-19 11:53:50 AM  

vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

Stephenson said the uranium threat was discovered in March 2018 by the teenage son of a park employee who happened to be a Geiger counter  enthusiast, and brought a device to the museum collection room.

Morons. This nation is populated and controlled my morons.
It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.


Deadliest thing known to man?

Uranium, meet botulinum toxin. Botox, meet uranium.

Wait, uranium, where are you going? Come back here!
 
2019-02-19 11:57:32 AM  

Destructor: flemardo: Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.

If it's just ore... Everyone should just calm the fark down.


I've got a certified industrial hygienist who works at a secure facility that handles radioactive material looking into the details now. Short version: chill.
 
JesseL  
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2019-02-19 12:06:01 PM  

vudukungfu: UberDave: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

I know you're probably joking about the kid having one.  But they probably didn't have a properly calibrated meter (or one at all, granted).  You need one that has been calibrated with a proper source (i.e., one where you know what it is putting out).

Jesus H tittysucking christ.
There is a gift shop right there.
Grab an unopened roll of film and see if it is already exposed.


Do they still sell film in gift shops?
 
vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 12:20:00 PM  

JesseL: vudukungfu: UberDave: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

I know you're probably joking about the kid having one.  But they probably didn't have a properly calibrated meter (or one at all, granted).  You need one that has been calibrated with a proper source (i.e., one where you know what it is putting out).

Jesus H tittysucking christ.
There is a gift shop right there.
Grab an unopened roll of film and see if it is already exposed.

Do they still sell film in gift shops?


It's back in the store room. Behind those buckets of ore.
 
evilsofa  
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2019-02-19 12:23:36 PM  

vudukungfu: UberDave: vudukungfu: Stephenson said specialists apparently had no Geiger counter, so they drove to Utah to pick up a Ludlum meter, which also measures radiation output.

Perhaps they should have asked around and maybe someone's kid had one in their room or something.

I know you're probably joking about the kid having one.  But they probably didn't have a properly calibrated meter (or one at all, granted).  You need one that has been calibrated with a proper source (i.e., one where you know what it is putting out).

Jesus H tittysucking christ.
There is a gift shop right there.
Grab an unopened roll of film and see if it is already exposed.


I did a GIS for Grand Canyon Taxidermy Show but there doesn't seem to be any pictures of it. How strange, it's like nobody's pictures ever developed properly.
 
Kevin72  
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2019-02-19 1:18:42 PM  
I got all tl;dr while reading but did read it all the way through. So much doesn't make sense. You missing some uranium? No collusion, you're the one hiding the uranium. Whose uranium? Someone call that Japanese anticlutter lady if you're holding buckets of uranium you don't need. The only thing that did make sense (though it shouldn't) was that the whistleblower got fired.
 
Egoy3k  
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2019-02-19 1:32:12 PM  
It's unrefined ore, it's not exactly a huge deal. No it shouldn't have been there, not it's not great if you ingest particles of it but in a sealed container it's likely pretty safe for visitors. If somebody who worked there was using one of those buckets for a stool for 5 years it might be a problem.
 
2019-02-19 1:42:07 PM  
I knew a woman in Spokane who told me a story about a time when she collected some purple rocks from the mountains of Eastern WA when she was out mushroom hunting. She thought the rocks might look nice in her garden. The next day, her car wouldn't start. No problem, there's another battery on the floor of the back seat. She put that one in and it was dead too. Then she told a friend who was a geologist about her dead batteries and purple rocks and he told her they were probably uranium ore and that's what killed her batteries. Sounds plausible, because there are uranium mines in Eastern WA (one on the Spokane reservation) but I don't know if radiation can kill a battery, so I still take the story with a grain of salt.
 
vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 1:46:45 PM  

evilsofa: it's like nobody's pictures ever developed properly.


neither did their children
 
2019-02-19 2:16:56 PM  

CordycepsInYourBrain: I knew a woman in Spokane who told me a story about a time when she collected some purple rocks from the mountains of Eastern WA when she was out mushroom hunting. She thought the rocks might look nice in her garden. The next day, her car wouldn't start. No problem, there's another battery on the floor of the back seat. She put that one in and it was dead too. Then she told a friend who was a geologist about her dead batteries and purple rocks and he told her they were probably uranium ore and that's what killed her batteries. Sounds plausible, because there are uranium mines in Eastern WA (one on the Spokane reservation) but I don't know if radiation can kill a battery, so I still take the story with a grain of salt.


You should take that story with a shaker of salt. Probably a salt lick. Maybe a whole salt mine.

For starters, uranium ore isn't purple.

Second, radiation doesn't kill batteries.

Third, uranium is an alpha- and occasionally beta-emitter. Alpha particles can be blocked by a sheet of notebook paper, or a few inches of air. Beta particles can be blocked by a sheet of tinfoil, or a few feet of air. Batteries are made up of ... wait for it ... lead. And they're inside cars, which have considerably more shielding than tinfoil, and are considerably more than a few feet away from the average garden.

So even if the rocks had been uranium ore (which they weren't), and even if radiation killed batteries (it doesn't), that battery was too far away for the rocks to have any effects whatsoever.

In summary: You've been had.
 
Destructor [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 2:24:17 PM  

Worldwalker: For starters, uranium ore isn't purple.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Nevertheless, dispose of your purple rocks carefully.
 
Mikey1969 [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 2:33:20 PM  
And yet another reason that the South Rim of the Canyon sucks ass.
 
joeflood [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 2:53:15 PM  

CordycepsInYourBrain: I knew a woman in Spokane who told me a story about a time when she collected some purple rocks from the mountains of Eastern WA when she was out mushroom hunting. She thought the rocks might look nice in her garden. The next day, her car wouldn't start. No problem, there's another battery on the floor of the back seat. She put that one in and it was dead too. Then she told a friend who was a geologist about her dead batteries and purple rocks and he told her they were probably uranium ore and that's what killed her batteries. Sounds plausible, because there are uranium mines in Eastern WA (one on the Spokane reservation) but I don't know if radiation can kill a battery, so I still take the story with a grain of salt.


Uranium salt.
 
caljar  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 3:19:29 PM  

CordycepsInYourBrain: I knew a woman in Spokane who told me a story about a time when she collected some purple rocks from the mountains of Eastern WA when she was out mushroom hunting. She thought the rocks might look nice in her garden. The next day, her car wouldn't start. No problem, there's another battery on the floor of the back seat. She put that one in and it was dead too. Then she told a friend who was a geologist about her dead batteries and purple rocks and he told her they were probably uranium ore and that's what killed her batteries. Sounds plausible, because there are uranium mines in Eastern WA (one on the Spokane reservation) but I don't know if radiation can kill a battery, so I still take the story with a grain of salt.


It was the shrooms.
 
flondrix  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 3:47:21 PM  

vudukungfu: It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.


It is a rock collection.
 
vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 3:51:17 PM  

flondrix: vudukungfu: It's the deadliest thing known to man, easily dug from the earth and we treat it like it was a rock collection.

It is a rock collection.


So are the contents of Elizabeth Taylor's jewelry box.
 
2019-02-19 4:15:25 PM  
Got off the phone with the CIH (who also, by the way, has a MS in geology). I should mention that he doesn't deal with radiation hazards himself -- they have specialists for that -- but he's quite well-educated on the subject, not only because he's worked around it for over a decade, but because we collect uranium glass. Yeah, it's my husband. :p I can't say where he works, because that could be misconstrued by some people to somehow imply some kind of official sanction to his opinions or something, so you're going to have to take it as a given that he works for a place where radiation hazards are a big deal. And the gate guards have machine guns.

So, with regard to this

The following is from the email I just got. He read the articles (the AZcentral one is better; his opinion about the USA Today one was, um, not positive). He's not quite sure what's going on with the numbers and he's too swamped with work to try to sort out that incoherence.

The concern is due to the quantity of the ore concentrated in one location.  There were three 5 gallon buckets reportedly full of ore.  The measurements are sketchily reported and Including the phrase  "Just 5 feet from the buckets, there was a zero reading."  I'm not sure what they were doing about background levels. I'm not sure who the people who removed the ore were, but they did not seem to be fully professional.   However being aghast at the use of dishwashing gloves is inappropriate.  The rough equivalent are used here (At many times the cost, I'm sure.).

I'll have more, later. I'm still trying to sort out the various numbers related to dosage, absorbed dosage, etc. Units include the curie, the becquerel, the gray, the rad, the rem, and the sievert, plus you have the quality factor in there. They all interrelate in confusing ways.

It's uranium ore. It is a rock collection. This is a total non-story about non-events that non-happened.

He tries to make it sound like kids were dropping dead after 3 seconds of being in the general vicinity. From the incoherent article, that would seem that measurements near the buckets, but not in contact with them, produced a dose of 13.9 mrem per hour, so an adult would need to be there for 7 hours and 12 minutes to exceed that level. Not 5 feet from the buckets (where it was 0) but next to them, probably leaning on them, and likely with them open, since alpha radiation definitely can't penetrate the buckets, and beta probably can't. (I guess I need to get my hands on a Geiger counter and put a stack of my glowy green dishware in a bucket, and measure). A child would require almost three-quarters of an hour. Which is very definitely not 3 seconds. (it's 2,589.9 seconds, actually)

Something that also struck me: he claimed that there was a conspiracy to silence him in his previous job because he had complained about racial discrimination, and then about a different radiation issue. While certainly those things can happen, and happen together, after a while you start to wonder.
 
Roont  
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2019-02-19 4:17:24 PM  
What a total bullshiat, fluff for nothing story this is.
Uranium ore is about as radioactive as a bunch of bananas. (Yeah, farking bananas are radioactive).
This is just crap.
 
Blaarrg  
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2019-02-19 4:52:47 PM  
vignette2.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


He knows what to do.
 
UberDave [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 4:53:06 PM  

Worldwalker: He tries to make it sound like kids were dropping dead after 3 seconds of being in the general vicinity. From the incoherent article, that would seem that measurements near the buckets, but not in contact with them, produced a dose of 13.9 mrem per hour, so an adult would need to be there for 7 hours and 12 minutes to exceed that level. Not 5 feet from the buckets (where it was 0) but next to them, probably leaning on them, and likely with them open, since alpha radiation definitely can't penetrate the buckets, and beta probably can't. (I guess I need to get my hands on a Geiger counter and put a stack of my glowy green dishware in a bucket, and measure). A child would require almost three-quarters of an hour. Which is very definitely not 3 seconds. (it's 2,589.9 seconds, actually)


The thing is that one of the buckets was not sealed all the way.  You have a bunch of U238/235 (very little 235) in a bucket that has been jostled around, most certainly, the many years it has been there and it's inside a building.

While the alpha radiation isn't going to give them any external whole-body dose, it *will*, once breathing in the particles of alpha-emitting material, give them an internal dose *if* they breath in enough to give a significant reading.  A urine sample measured for U238 and U235 should give a result.  That result can be calculated to a total dose "received" value.

If individuals are not around for that, swiping/smearing the inside of the museum and measuring those swipes/smears should give them a general idea of the exposure your average visitor would receive.

Without seeing those results, I would guess that after several years, the U238/235 concentration in that building was slightly above what it is outside *at worst*.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of the employees saw a positive result from a urine sample but it probably wouldn't be anything to fuss over.
 
2019-02-19 4:59:40 PM  

Roont: What a total bullshiat, fluff for nothing story this is.
Uranium ore is about as radioactive as a bunch of bananas. (Yeah, farking bananas are radioactive).
This is just crap.


And the bananas keep getting more radioactive because you're farking them and adding C-14.
 
2019-02-19 5:08:59 PM  
The maximum radiation exposure per year is only one-quarter more than normal radiation level?
https://xkcd.com/radiation/
 
2019-02-19 5:19:49 PM  

UberDave: Worldwalker: He tries to make it sound like kids were dropping dead after 3 seconds of being in the general vicinity. From the incoherent article, that would seem that measurements near the buckets, but not in contact with them, produced a dose of 13.9 mrem per hour, so an adult would need to be there for 7 hours and 12 minutes to exceed that level. Not 5 feet from the buckets (where it was 0) but next to them, probably leaning on them, and likely with them open, since alpha radiation definitely can't penetrate the buckets, and beta probably can't. (I guess I need to get my hands on a Geiger counter and put a stack of my glowy green dishware in a bucket, and measure). A child would require almost three-quarters of an hour. Which is very definitely not 3 seconds. (it's 2,589.9 seconds, actually)

The thing is that one of the buckets was not sealed all the way.  You have a bunch of U238/235 (very little 235) in a bucket that has been jostled around, most certainly, the many years it has been there and it's inside a building.

While the alpha radiation isn't going to give them any external whole-body dose, it *will*, once breathing in the particles of alpha-emitting material, give them an internal dose *if* they breath in enough to give a significant reading.  A urine sample measured for U238 and U235 should give a result.  That result can be calculated to a total dose "received" value.

If individuals are not around for that, swiping/smearing the inside of the museum and measuring those swipes/smears should give them a general idea of the exposure your average visitor would receive.

Without seeing those results, I would guess that after several years, the U238/235 concentration in that building was slightly above what it is outside *at worst*.  It wouldn't surprise me if some of the employees saw a positive result from a urine sample but it probably wouldn't be anything to fuss over.


You have a bunch of U238/235/234, yes, but it's in the form of ore -- a small percentage of uranium in a large percentage of rock. Uranium is an alpha or beta emitter, as are most of its daughter products that I can think of. The alphas aren't going to get out of the rock, only the surface. The betas aren't going to get out of more than fairly shallow layers of the rock. So for maximum radiation, the ore chunks have to be small enough to have a lot of surface area, but not so small they act as shielding themselves (e.g., sand-sized).

But in any event, given this guy's history, it seems he's more likely trying to stir up trouble to get what he wants rather than actually concerned about anything. And there's no there there.

I had to explain to a lady on Saturday that using uranium glass isn't going to kill her. Must have worked; she bought a $42 butter dish. (nice green Depression glass piece with a starburst design on top, really heavy glass and great internal refractions) Yeah, I'm not just a user now; I'm a pusher. I've got a little booth in an antique mall and probably more uranium in one place than anywhere around here but the aforementioned facility. :)
 
2019-02-19 5:21:52 PM  

WelldeadLink: The maximum radiation exposure per year is only one-quarter more than normal radiation level?
https://xkcd.com/radiation/


The maximum that won't get OSHA upset is not quite the same as the maximum you can absorb. They're super-conservative about that. And don't get me started on the exposure permissible from a nuclear power plant versus a coal plant (which produces rather a lot).
 
Daedalus27  
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2019-02-19 5:32:40 PM  

Worldwalker: Destructor: flemardo: Unless it was somehow refined, people were eating it, or somebody was teabagging it constantly,  everybody should be fine.
http://talknuclear.ca/2014/08/just-how-radioactive-is-uranium-ore/
Maybe a bit of radon exposure to it if there was poor ventilation.

If it's just ore... Everyone should just calm the fark down.

I've got a certified industrial hygienist who works at a secure facility that handles radioactive material looking into the details now. Short version: chill.


For the average guest, it is nothing.  However if you have employees working day in and day out for months or years and the material is being handled spreading it around, there may be a minor issue.  I need to know what the exposure risk is terms I understand, like banana equivalent.
 
2019-02-19 5:35:30 PM  

Worldwalker: CordycepsInYourBrain: I knew a woman in Spokane who told me a story about a time when she collected some purple rocks from the mountains of Eastern WA when she was out mushroom hunting. She thought the rocks might look nice in her garden. The next day, her car wouldn't start. No problem, there's another battery on the floor of the back seat. She put that one in and it was dead too. Then she told a friend who was a geologist about her dead batteries and purple rocks and he told her they were probably uranium ore and that's what killed her batteries. Sounds plausible, because there are uranium mines in Eastern WA (one on the Spokane reservation) but I don't know if radiation can kill a battery, so I still take the story with a grain of salt.

You should take that story with a shaker of salt. Probably a salt lick. Maybe a whole salt mine.

For starters, uranium ore isn't purple.

Second, radiation doesn't kill batteries.

Third, uranium is an alpha- and occasionally beta-emitter. Alpha particles can be blocked by a sheet of notebook paper, or a few inches of air. Beta particles can be blocked by a sheet of tinfoil, or a few feet of air. Batteries are made up of ... wait for it ... lead. And they're inside cars, which have considerably more shielding than tinfoil, and are considerably more than a few feet away from the average garden.

So even if the rocks had been uranium ore (which they weren't), and even if radiation killed batteries (it doesn't), that battery was too far away for the rocks to have any effects whatsoever.

In summary: You've been had.


I'm not surprised, considering the source. She said a lot of things that made me go all squinty-eyed.
 
flondrix  
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2019-02-19 5:35:43 PM  
The dust is the big deal.  That, and Radon.  Radon is a big deal because a) the various forms of it have short half-lives, so there is a decent chance of it decaying while it is in your lungs, and b) it decays into solid elements, which means you have just ingested them.  Even alpha and beta emitters are a big deal if you manage to ingest them.
 
caljar  
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2019-02-19 5:55:53 PM  

Worldwalker: WelldeadLink: The maximum radiation exposure per year is only one-quarter more than normal radiation level?
https://xkcd.com/radiation/

The maximum that won't get OSHA upset is not quite the same as the maximum you can absorb. They're super-conservative about that. And don't get me started on the exposure permissible from a nuclear power plant versus a coal plant (which produces rather a lot).


WelldeadLink: The maximum radiation exposure per year is only one-quarter more than normal radiation level?
https://xkcd.com/radiation/


The lower levels of radiation exposure danger are really politics.  Since small levels of radiation do not show any statistical data that leads to cancer, every thing at the lower levels is just made up crap.  The difference between you having a 1 in a million chance of cancer and you having a 3 in a million chance of cancer is just static, so for the purpose of setting limits and stuff, they just make it up.
 
UberDave [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 6:15:52 PM  

Worldwalker: You have a bunch of U238/235/234, yes, but it's in the form of ore -- a small percentage of uranium in a large percentage of rock. Uranium is an alpha or beta emitter, as are most of its daughter products that I can think of. The alphas aren't going to get out of the rock, only the surface. The betas aren't going to get out of more than fairly shallow layers of the rock. So for maximum radiation, the ore chunks have to be small enough to have a lot of surface area, but not so small they act as shielding themselves (e.g., sand-sized).


The thing is that the frisker picked up a fair amount of alpha according to the article.  When that rock is jostled together and such, it creates dust and that settles about the area and over the years, that can build up.  Alpha radiation is flying off and laying about the area...particles of the rock are and some of those emit alpha radiation.

Yes, alpha radiation can be stopped by your skin but if you inhale an alpha emitting particle, then that is certainly going to give dose to your organs (lungs in this case).  To determine the amount of effective dose, they need to measure a biological sample (urine, feces, blood, etc.) for a particular nuclide.  This, along with the time of exposure, retention factor of the material, etc., can give a result.

Without knowing what they did (i.e smears and such) beyond using a frisker and without seeing the results of what they did, we really don't know the concentration of alpha in that area.  I wouldn't expect an open bucket full of ore to not give an activity above baseline for a smear when taken in the immediate area in an enclosed building.  But I could be wrong.
 
2019-02-19 7:51:13 PM  
The bottom line is we don't know the details, and we don't know any more based on what that article tells us. *sigh*

I did get the idea that the ore wasn't being handled, just left in a corner in its buckets. So generation of dust wouldn't likely be an issue. My impression was of a few buckets of ore that someone had gotten for an exhibit years ago, nobody had ever done anything with, and when the space in the basement was needed for something big, they just stuffed the buckets in a corner upstairs. (the mine they dumped them in was probably the same one they came out of)
 
vudukungfu [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 7:54:28 PM  
Rare form of lymphoma in a few d3cades for the saturated.
 
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