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(WHSV Harrisonburg)   West Virginia teachers' unions call for strike over education bill   (whsv.com) divider line
    More: News, United States Senate, Education, Charter school, Teacher, Democratic Party, School, state Senate, West Virginia teachers' unions  
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3266 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2019 at 3:30 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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tudorgurl [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (12)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-18 11:22:39 PM  
Good.
#solidarity #redfored
 
DietGlue  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 12:41:14 AM  
Good for them.
 
2019-02-19 3:34:43 AM  
Good.
 
mrparks  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (4)  
2019-02-19 3:38:44 AM  
So I told that teacher lady, y'all should strike!
 
2019-02-19 3:48:04 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Summoner101  
Smartest (11)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 3:48:31 AM  

naughtyrev: Earlier Monday, Sen. Patricia Rucker, a Jefferson County Republican, moved to adopt the Senate's amended version before senators even had a chance to read changes to the bill, prompting Democrats to protest. The Senate later adjourned for more than an hour to enable senators to catch up.

F*ck you, you piece of sh*t.


I came in to post that exact line.  That sure sounds like everything is on the up and up and no shady shiat is going on.
 
Baradium  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 3:55:43 AM  
I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.
 
Baradium  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 3:59:46 AM  

Summoner101: naughtyrev: Earlier Monday, Sen. Patricia Rucker, a Jefferson County Republican, moved to adopt the Senate's amended version before senators even had a chance to read changes to the bill, prompting Democrats to protest. The Senate later adjourned for more than an hour to enable senators to catch up.

F*ck you, you piece of sh*t.

I came in to post that exact line.  That sure sounds like everything is on the up and up and no shady shiat is going on.


It's really hard with lines like that to tell what the intent was. It wasn't necessarily nefarious and in the end they seem to have gotten the time they wanted for review.   If that was one of the complaints from the union though, I think it'd give them more credence then they have with what they've given.
 
jtown  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (4)  
2019-02-19 4:03:17 AM  

Baradium: Summoner101: naughtyrev: Earlier Monday, Sen. Patricia Rucker, a Jefferson County Republican, moved to adopt the Senate's amended version before senators even had a chance to read changes to the bill, prompting Democrats to protest. The Senate later adjourned for more than an hour to enable senators to catch up.

F*ck you, you piece of sh*t.

I came in to post that exact line.  That sure sounds like everything is on the up and up and no shady shiat is going on.

It's really hard with lines like that to tell what the intent was. It wasn't necessarily nefarious and in the end they seem to have gotten the time they wanted for review.   If that was one of the complaints from the union though, I think it'd give them more credence then they have with what they've given.


I wouldn't hold out much hope for the Creedence.
 
jmr61  
Smartest (13)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 4:05:43 AM  

Baradium: I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.


Giving public dollars to fund online and religious schools is reason enough given that once started it will only continue to erode public schools. The bill they are fighting over contains so much crap it should have been divided into about 6'different ones. It's basically the Senate's FU to teachers for getting raises with last year's strike. Carmichael is a scumbag but until West Virginians stop electing these POS republicans this is the government we get. Elections have consequences people.
 
2019-02-19 4:10:10 AM  
Votes for Republican policies

Wonders why their interests never get addresses

:::shocked Pikachu face meme:::
 
Weaver95 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (17)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 4:10:46 AM  

Baradium: If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.


these teachers could have piles of documentation, video of charter schools raping goats and teaching satanism while burning bibles and waving rainbow flags that say 'the gay agenda is here!' and STILL the Republicans would ignore the union and choose to f*ck over the teachers.

the state level Republicans around the country do not want public schools to exist, and believe that now is the time to implode the public education system in favor of a patchwork of unregulated christian homeschooling and corporate run 'education centers' designed to churn out a product, not people.
 
doglover  
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2019-02-19 4:14:04 AM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: [img.fark.net image 500x653]


Yes. And some of them could be quite good if it weren't for assholes like Patricia Rucker, the hoopy fu fuggedabaowdit. Yeah, let's got with that.
 
Baradium  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (1)  
2019-02-19 4:25:28 AM  

Weaver95: Baradium: If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.

these teachers could have piles of documentation, video of charter schools raping goats and teaching satanism while burning bibles and waving rainbow flags that say 'the gay agenda is here!' and STILL the Republicans would ignore the union and choose to f*ck over the teachers.

the state level Republicans around the country do not want public schools to exist, and believe that now is the time to implode the public education system in favor of a patchwork of unregulated christian homeschooling and corporate run 'education centers' designed to churn out a product, not people.


Yet they have not provided anything.

As far as students as products, many public schools already do that.  All they care about is test scores and not actual retained knowledge.

So we have hyperbole and fear that charter schools might be as bad as a lot of public schools are?

Disclaimer, I went to public school and the school system and teachers were amazing and I am glad I did.   But public schools have not been a beacon of enlightenment on a national level for some time.  There are some great systems out there, but not all public schools are.

Your argument seems to be just two points:  private schools bad and Republicans bad.
 
Weaver95 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (10)   Funniest (2)  
2019-02-19 4:29:30 AM  

Baradium: So we have hyperbole and fear that charter schools might be as bad as a lot of public schools are?


well, generally that's proven to be the case...not that any Republican anywhere shows any sort of interest in facts about education.  I mean they've already been given all the evidence they need to make informed decisions....they don't care.  they just want to break public education, destroy teacher's unions and put evangelicals in charge of everyone's schools.

it really is THAT simple.  evidence does not matter to the Republicans.  not on education, not on the environment, not on the Mueller investigation stuff.  every subject, everything we want to talk about...the Republicans flatly reject facts across the board.
 
insain1  
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2019-02-19 4:30:02 AM  
Gotta love it..... The kids of today are just getting dumber everyday.
 
Weaver95 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (9)   Funniest (3)  
2019-02-19 4:35:07 AM  

insain1: Gotta love it..... The kids of today are just getting dumber everyday.


its not the kids that are the problem.  its that the f*ck your feelings people think they're smarter than everyone else and are getting in the way.
 
Baradium  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 5:09:45 AM  

Weaver95: Baradium: So we have hyperbole and fear that charter schools might be as bad as a lot of public schools are?

well, generally that's proven to be the case...not that any Republican anywhere shows any sort of interest in facts about education.  I mean they've already been given all the evidence they need to make informed decisions....they don't care.  they just want to break public education, destroy teacher's unions and put evangelicals in charge of everyone's schools.

it really is THAT simple.  evidence does not matter to the Republicans.  not on education, not on the environment, not on the Mueller investigation stuff.  every subject, everything we want to talk about...the Republicans flatly reject facts across the board.


So, charter schools are voluntary enrollment and parents can put the students in the public schools if the charter schools aren't meeting their standards, right?

I'm honestly looking for a reason to be supportive of this strike, but all I am getting is that you hate all Republicans and that people would paint public education with a broad brush like you do with Republicans by only comparing the failing public schools to charter schools.
I'll give you another thing I don't quite buy.  I don't think a really good school system will lose students to charter schools.  Rich parents already have a high propensity to put their kids in private school anyway, what it does do is give families without as much income a choice as well.

I'm just looking for something that isn't a feeling that there could be a need for feetf public school teachers.

I know you're really riled up here, but I don't really care what political party you do or do not despise with the fury of a thousand suns.  And, just in my view, an ongoing investigation is just that, ongoing.  If Mueller finds something substantial that is actually tied to Trump, there will be no ignoring it.  Personally, I'm more concerned with the emergency declaration and the implications thereof regarding separation of powers.  I think we need to do more about border security, and don't have a problem with a wall in theory if that's a way to get there... but not done like that.  I hope it gets struck down because the presidency isn't supposed to have that much power.

Back to the topic at hand.  I know a lot of teachers in public schools personally, some I grew up with and some I volunteer with.  The ones I know work really hard.  I think many need to be paid better.  But I'm not convinced all private schools are evil or inept.  Although I will say that I do think they should be held to a high standard, as should home schooled students.  Home schooling should only be allowed if they are able to keep up.   The approach this union is taking just seems to show a feeling that the students are a commodity to be used to get what they want, which I believe is what you're saying private schools would do...
 
2019-02-19 5:25:59 AM  
I skimmed the text of this - http://www.wvlegislature.gov/Bill_Text_HTML/2019_sessions/RS/bills/SB451%20SUB1.htm - which may not be the latest version, but whatever.

Couple of things that caught my eye:

- the "virtual charter school" concept is not well explained

- charter schools are split off under their own state-level commission, separate from Dept of Ed

- charter schools are exempt from most regulations pertaining to public schools (but not in some crucial areas like civil rights, disability, FOIA...)

- county boards can authorize charter schools, so quality control seems immediately suspect

Aside from the charter schools it all looks fairly ordinary. There are minor tax credits for teachers. A limited number of educational accounts for kids with particular needs. An effort to incentivize teachers to get up to speed in math. The update to the pay scale. The housekeeping to integrate the new charter school stuff with other statutes. A few seemingly insignificant changes where I'm not sure of the context. Etc.

/interesting that the charter schools are explicitly not selective
//and there's a focus on for at-risk and under-served students
///not sure whether this is sloppy drafting, or what:
"Notwithstanding any provision in this article that may be interpreted to the contrary, a public charter school shall not:
(1) Be home-school based; and
(2) Discriminate on any basis for which the noncharter public schools of this state may not discriminate..."
 
Weaver95 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (9)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 5:27:02 AM  

Baradium: So, charter schools are voluntary enrollment and parents can put the students in the public schools if the charter schools aren't meeting their standards, right?


yes and no.  what tends to happen is that the charter schools end up with the ability to 'pick and choose' students.  they 'edge out' public schools with better test scores and strive to keep costs low (mostly by dicking over teachers and students by cutting operational budgets to the bone) and basically leave public schools with the dregs of the educational system.  public schools end up with less money, less help, less attention while charter schools get all the money and praise, often without justification.

eventually that situation ends up with parents being forced to either put their kids into a charter school (which is fine, so long as your kid doesn't have developmental needs of any kind or sort and is a perfect student) or putting them into a public school where they have to fight alongside everyone else for scraps thrown them by the state legislatures.  not much of a choice really....but that's the squeeze play the conservatives are counting on to destroy what's left of public education.
 
2019-02-19 5:45:22 AM  

Weaver95: Baradium: So, charter schools are voluntary enrollment and parents can put the students in the public schools if the charter schools aren't meeting their standards, right?

yes and no.  what tends to happen is that the charter schools end up with the ability to 'pick and choose' students.

...
eventually that situation ends up with parents being forced to either put their kids into a charter school (which is fine, so long as your kid doesn't have developmental needs of any kind or sort and is a perfect student)



(b) If capacity is insufficient to enroll all students who wish to attend any specific grade level at a public charter school, the school shall select students through a randomized and transparent lottery: ...

(f) Every charter school shall submit a recruitment and retention plan annually to its authorizer.  The plan shall list deliberate, specific strategies the school will use to attract, enroll, and retain a student population that includes students who are, to the extent applicable:
(1) Limited English proficient;
(2) Special education;
(3) Low income;
(4) Below proficiency on the comprehensive statewide student assessment;
(5) At risk of dropping out of school;
(6) Have dropped out of school; or
(7) Any others who should be targeted to eliminate achievement gaps.

Just saying. Easier said than done, but the bill clearly contemplates both the charter schools and the education accounts targeting kids who DO have difficulties or special needs; these charter schools are not being conceptualized as "magnet" schools.

/assuming I'm looking at the right bill
 
Baradium  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 5:46:10 AM  

Weaver95: Baradium: So, charter schools are voluntary enrollment and parents can put the students in the public schools if the charter schools aren't meeting their standards, right?

yes and no.  what tends to happen is that the charter schools end up with the ability to 'pick and choose' students.  they 'edge out' public schools with better test scores and strive to keep costs low (mostly by dicking over teachers and students by cutting operational budgets to the bone) and basically leave public schools with the dregs of the educational system.  public schools end up with less money, less help, less attention while charter schools get all the money and praise, often without justification.

eventually that situation ends up with parents being forced to either put their kids into a charter school (which is fine, so long as your kid doesn't have developmental needs of any kind or sort and is a perfect student) or putting them into a public school where they have to fight alongside everyone else for scraps thrown them by the state legislatures.  not much of a choice really....but that's the squeeze play the conservatives are counting on to destroy what's left of public education.


Do the stipulations that monkeyfark posted above that are included change your thoughts on that at all?  They seem to cover your concerns of charter schools cherry picking students.
 
insain1  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2019-02-19 5:50:56 AM  

Weaver95: insain1: Gotta love it..... The kids of today are just getting dumber everyday.

its not the kids that are the problem.  its that the f*ck your feelings people think they're smarter than everyone else and are getting in the way.


Then do they wanna not go to school?Most would rather sling dope, hang out, watch YouTube (do the dumb challenges), play video games, shoot hoops everything but go to school & learn something.
 
Northern  
Smartest (7)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 6:05:10 AM  

Baradium: I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.


There is a lot of ground to cover.  Charters typically get the same $ per student, but usually divert the portion for teacher retirement as profit to investors.  This means charter schools do not save any money.  No union means weak government leaders will seek to make big cuts to education since this is the largest budget item for the state and local budgets, at the expense of students and the economy.  Sam Brownbeck is a great example of this.  Also, without a strong union, weak political leadership will attempt to further violate the constitution (SCOTUS has made many decisions on equal education opportunities), by forcing anti-science and religious indoctrination into public schools, first in the form of morning Christian prayer and creationism in science classes.  A strong teachers union is likely to stop that and work with national education groups to do so (like when they stopped Betsy DeVos and the Discovery Institutes "Intelligent Design" nonsense).
The best thing government can do is to provide free education (yeah I know about my real estate taxes),  at every level since this has been proven to be the one big thing they can do to actually significantly grow the economy in terms of wages and other compensation (for the majority, not just a handful of the idle rich).  If you don't believe how important education is, just look at how the wealthy approach this subject.  Betsy DeVos has former astronauts teaching high school students to get their pilots licenses at her exclusive billionaire academy, and no other expense is spared (kids at her Chicago for profit charters not so much).
You also can't have democracy without a strong education system.  Charter schools are typically opposed to democracy and education, since the former requires local control and standards (ie less profit), and the latter means people will be all too aware at their scam.  This is because the for profit education industry is trying to reduce K-12 education to a script with a strong corporate central control to keep costs down.  Their plan is to have high school diploma as the only education qualification.  It goes downhill from there (from an article in the New Yorker magazine).
I don't have a problem with a local government fully committed to non-profit charter focused on high standards and equivalent or better teacher compensation and rights.  But at that point, why not just work within the public school system?
Is education reform hard?  Yes, but big important systems shouldn't be easy to change.  The biggest problem right now is health care costs which have skyrocketed, ballooning benefits costs especially for retirees.  Single payer would greatly reduce education costs and enable the building of new, better schools across the country.  Our health care system is a massive drag on the economy, costing more than twice that of any other HC system and with significantly worse outcomes.  The average American also is not benefitting from our absurdly large defense budget.  That money would be better spent on infrastructure for the 21st century.
Too bad we elected a small minded bigot to the White House, who put the country's biggest for profit charter corporation owner and anti-science billionaire as Sec. of Education.
Congress should also be mentioned here.  The majority are worthless idle rich, the new aristocracy.  Trump has been a good lightning rod for their efforts to undermine this country and add to their own wealth at the expense of the majority.
You gotta vote folks, especially Millenials who are paying more for these mistakes than us old farkers, it really matters, a lot.
 
doomjesse  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 6:07:17 AM  

Baradium: I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.


The bigger issue is class size.  In last version I read (you want crazy, try to follow the path this thing took)  class size increased from 24 to 30 or 31.  In elementary schools.

From what I see it'll be a long strike.

/WV resident
 
eiger  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 6:09:48 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: (f) Every charter school shall submit a recruitment and retention plan annually to its authorizer.  The plan shall list deliberate, specific strategies the school will use to attract, enroll, and retain a student population that includes students who are, to the extent applicable:
(1) Limited English proficient;
(2) Special education;
(3) Low income;
(4) Below proficiency on the comprehensive statewide student assessment;
(5) At risk of dropping out of school;
(6) Have dropped out of school; or
(7) Any others who should be targeted to eliminate achievement gaps.


As someone who works for a public institution, I'll just say that "plans" are just that plans. Typically they are something produced by some bureaucrat to satisfy some higher bureaucrat and then shoved in a drawer.
 
doomjesse  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 6:20:16 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Weaver95: Baradium: So, charter schools are voluntary enrollment and parents can put the students in the public schools if the charter schools aren't meeting their standards, right?

yes and no.  what tends to happen is that the charter schools end up with the ability to 'pick and choose' students.

...
eventually that situation ends up with parents being forced to either put their kids into a charter school (which is fine, so long as your kid doesn't have developmental needs of any kind or sort and is a perfect student)


(b) If capacity is insufficient to enroll all students who wish to attend any specific grade level at a public charter school, the school shall select students through a randomized and transparent lottery: ...

(f) Every charter school shall submit a recruitment and retention plan annually to its authorizer.  The plan shall list deliberate, specific strategies the school will use to attract, enroll, and retain a student population that includes students who are, to the extent applicable:
(1) Limited English proficient;
(2) Special education;
(3) Low income;
(4) Below proficiency on the comprehensive statewide student assessment;
(5) At risk of dropping out of school;
(6) Have dropped out of school; or
(7) Any others who should be targeted to eliminate achievement gaps.

Just saying. Easier said than done, but the bill clearly contemplates both the charter schools and the education accounts targeting kids who DO have difficulties or special needs; these charter schools are not being conceptualized as "magnet" schools.

/assuming I'm looking at the right bill


Look at who is allowed to profit too.  Interestingly a provision that prevented legislators from personally profiting off charter schools was "oops!" dropped.
 
2019-02-19 6:38:32 AM  

eiger: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: (f) Every charter school shall submit a recruitment and retention plan annually to its authorizer.  The plan shall list deliberate, specific strategies the school will use to attract, enroll, and retain a student population that includes students who are, to the extent applicable:
(1) Limited English proficient;
(2) Special education;
(3) Low income;
(4) Below proficiency on the comprehensive statewide student assessment;
(5) At risk of dropping out of school;
(6) Have dropped out of school; or
(7) Any others who should be targeted to eliminate achievement gaps.

As someone who works for a public institution, I'll just say that "plans" are just that plans. Typically they are something produced by some bureaucrat to satisfy some higher bureaucrat and then shoved in a drawer.


Sure, which I acknowledged, but in response to speculation about the exclusionary nature of these yet-to-be-established schools, I think it's at least worth considering the fact that the bill authorizing their establishment demands inclusionary planning, forbids cherry-picking, sets up educational accounts specifically for at-risk kids, and so on.
 
Weaver95 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (1)  
2019-02-19 6:43:45 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: I think it's at least worth considering the fact that the bill authorizing their establishment demands inclusionary planning, forbids cherry-picking, sets up educational accounts specifically for at-risk kids, and so on.


given all the effort that's gone into preventing people from seeing this legislation prior to it being voted on....lets just say I'm sure there's something in there that the Republicans don't want anyone to know about.
 
2019-02-19 7:17:48 AM  
WV teachers' unions: "Give us more money and don't compete with our racket."  (Did TFA have quotes from any actual teachers, or just union honchos?)

People ITT: "But what if it's a Rethuglican plot to divert students into schools that don't pay teachers enough and send money to people who don't represent the children?"
 
2019-02-19 7:22:52 AM  
Last year, just before the state tests, I had four brand new students entered into one of my classes, and a few more added among four other classes. These new students were kicked out of their charter school. They were way behind in skills, disrupted class during the ever important review work, and performed horribly on their tests. Some of my best students have been given spots in local charter schools. The local charters do not have special education accommodations, and they quickly kick out any behavior problems. Of course this makes the local public schools look worse in comparison to the better charter schools, and surprisingly enough, there are still a few charter schools that have been closed due to low performance, and some rank near the bottom with some of the poorer schools in my city.
 
2019-02-19 7:43:43 AM  

Baradium: I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.


Difficulty: charter schools and homeschooling are mostly terrible for both students and public schools.
 
2019-02-19 7:58:15 AM  

Weaver95: these teachers could have piles of documentation, video of charter schools raping goats and teaching satanism while burning bibles and waving rainbow flags that say 'the gay agenda is here!' and STILL the Republicans would ignore the union and choose to f*ck over the teachers.


I'm pretty sure if any of that was going on, those teachers would be on board with charter schools.
 
2019-02-19 8:07:43 AM  
Just look at Florida.  They allowed Charter Schools here to take money from Public Schools and look how well that's working out for us.

/s
 
Begoggle  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 8:26:56 AM  
This is why all schools should be private.
So kids can be as dumb as we want and we save money doing it!
 
2019-02-19 8:30:47 AM  
Shut it down
Shut it down now!
 
Begoggle  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (2)  
2019-02-19 8:30:55 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: Weaver95: these teachers could have piles of documentation, video of charter schools raping goats and teaching satanism while burning bibles and waving rainbow flags that say 'the gay agenda is here!' and STILL the Republicans would ignore the union and choose to f*ck over the teachers.

I'm pretty sure if any of that was going on, those teachers would be on board with charter schools.


I'm pretty sure that makes no sense, despite the Smart vote you gave yourself.
 
2019-02-19 8:55:19 AM  

Begoggle: Benjimin_Dover: Weaver95: these teachers could have piles of documentation, video of charter schools raping goats and teaching satanism while burning bibles and waving rainbow flags that say 'the gay agenda is here!' and STILL the Republicans would ignore the union and choose to f*ck over the teachers.

I'm pretty sure if any of that was going on, those teachers would be on board with charter schools.

I'm pretty sure that makes no sense, despite the Smart vote you gave yourself.


Public school like typing detected.
 
ColSanders  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 9:03:39 AM  

jmr61: Giving public dollars to fund online and religious schools is reason enough given that once started it will only continue to erode public schools. The bill they are fighting over contains so much crap it should have been divided into about 6'different ones. It's basically the Senate's FU to teachers for getting raises with last year's strike. Carmichael is a scumbag but until West Virginians stop electing these POS republicans this is the government we get. Elections have consequences people.


beta-static.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
d23 [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 9:09:16 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


This is Indiana's (stupid) A-F grading system for schools.

You can't be more transparent in your desire to destroy schooling when you are for charter schools.  It's a farking failure.  West Virginia is being even more stupid in Indiana if they want to ADD charters when it a proven failure in so many other areas.  The ultimate goal is to destroy public schooling and give the money to the religious schools.
 
2019-02-19 9:29:38 AM  

d23: [img.fark.net image 620x174]

This is Indiana's (stupid) A-F grading system for schools.

You can't be more transparent in your desire to destroy schooling when you are for charter schools.  It's a farking failure.  West Virginia is being even more stupid in Indiana if they want to ADD charters when it a proven failure in so many other areas.  The ultimate goal is to destroy public schooling and give the money to the religious schools.


And lets not forget: charter schools only became a big thing on the US when public schools got desegregated.
 
caljar  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 9:34:42 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Baradium: I'm not sure they're going to get as much support this time around.   The senators did get a chance to read the new bill, and that wasn't their complaint anyway.

If I'm reading this correctly they are upset that charter schools would be allowed and the possibility of homeschoolers having access to funds for materials.   Those aren't areas where teacher unions traditionally seem to have input and they aren't unheard of in the US either. In fact, both types of programs enjoy widespread support in areas they have been implemented and I haven't heard it resulting in teacher layoffs.

I just don't think they've planned this out enough.  If they have specific reasons for misgivings then they should be touting those.  What this article and another I read imply is whining and stopping feet while holding children's education hostage.

Sorry to those of you on here who are educators, but if there are good reasons for a strike, they aren't doing a good job in stating them.

Difficulty: charter schools and homeschooling are mostly terrible for both students and public schools.


Around here, one of the biggest reason people home school is to keep their kids off drugs.  The parents view that if their kids don't hang around druggy friends, and dealers, they will be better off.  I have seen no evidence it doesn't work for that.  also, a good friend homeschooled because his kid was slightly disabled, and was always being picked on.  Both of these issues were something the parents thought the schools were doing a bad job at, so they pulled the kids.
 
edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
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2019-02-19 9:39:18 AM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: [img.fark.net image 500x653]


Not much longer
 
2019-02-19 9:39:21 AM  

Baradium: I'm not convinced all private schools are evil or inept.  Although I will say that I do think they should be held to a high standard, as should home schooled students


The "should be held to a high standard" part applies to public schools as well, it just needs more emphasis on the word "should".

There are standards in place already, and far too many public schools regularly fail to meet them. People can (and do) argue all day long about whether those standards are "high enough", or what criteria should be used to measure how "high" they are - but whatever standards are set, they don't make a damn bit of difference to the public schools since the public schools know they won't be "held to" them.

It's why the idea of school vouchers is so attractive. Set up an accreditation-system for private schools based on the approved educational standards, allow parents to redeem the vouchers at any accredited school. Annually review and asses the private schools' performance and compliance with the standards, and pull their accreditation if they fail. This would effectively put a private school out of business, which the public schools haven't really ever had to worry about.

It wouldn't prevent public schools from existing - parents could redeem the vouchers at their local public-school if they chose to - but it would force the public schools to keep up.

As it is, the public schools are accustomed to having something like a de-facto stranglehold monopoly and having the unions (and pretty much an entire political party) fighting to ensure they keep that stranglehold, and fighting to strengthen it. We've created a system where the students are the only people who suffer any consequences for the schools' failure.

The only schools or teachers likely to be hurt by a proper voucher system are the ones that parents avoid because those schools suck. When the teachers' unions oppose the idea, they're showing that they're more devoted to their own self-serving interests than in seeing children receive a quality education - which is probably the biggest reason we have such a problem in the first place.
 
2019-02-19 10:18:14 AM  

rik_everglade: Last year, just before the state tests, I had four brand new students entered into one of my classes, and a few more added among four other classes. These new students were kicked out of their charter school. They were way behind in skills, disrupted class during the ever important review work, and performed horribly on their tests. Some of my best students have been given spots in local charter schools. The local charters do not have special education accommodations, and they quickly kick out any behavior problems. Of course this makes the local public schools look worse in comparison to the better charter schools, and surprisingly enough, there are still a few charter schools that have been closed due to low performance, and some rank near the bottom with some of the poorer schools in my city.


As a parent of children who were accepted into a charter school, I have to agree with you 100% on this. Initially, the school did exceptionally well and my kids seemed to flourish, all the while the charter school took every opportunity to "remove" any problem kids and send them back to the public school domain.

Within 2 years, the charter school had test scores that overshadowed the public schools by a long shot, but that is when things began to change. The charter school began undercutting teacher salaries, increasing class size (my son had 43 students in his science class), and they had zerobooks, as it was all done online at school.

Long story short, they spent the money initially and had the option of kicking out problem kids. After they proved themselves to be a better option than the public schools, they slashed their own budget to improve the profit for their shareholders, while still kicking out any problem kids.

After 2 1/2 years, we put our kids back into the public school.  I will never support a charter school program again.
 
trickymoo  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 10:36:00 AM  
My MIL is a teacher in WV, and retires next year. Shes voter R every single election she can remember.

Shes on the picket like today, and has stated she will never vote R again.

/ Charter Schools are the New Segregation
// Charter schools trick idiots into thinking theyre paying for better education when all it does is enable someone else to pay.
/// 31 Students per class is impossible.

fark the WV Legislature.
 
2019-02-19 11:12:33 AM  

BadMonkey2000: they slashed their own budget to improve the profit for their shareholders


On the other side of that coin, constant increases in salaries and pensions for all retiring employees is a form of profit too. So it's not shareholders, but the end result isn't much different in many ways.

I've seen public school districts re-align their budget priorities to buy fleets of vehicles so they can provide nearly every administrator with a taxpayer-funded "company car" and provide taxpayer-funded smartphones to everyone from the teacher level up, instead of putting the money toward anything that might directly improve the quality of education they provide.

So the money is being put toward convenience and luxury, versus "shareholder profit".

Then they take a large chunk of whatever money is left to spend it on hiring lobbyists whose job is to push for tax increases, so they can hire more lawyers to push for more tax-increases, repeat ad nauseam.

So now the money is being spent on efforts to take more money, so they'll have more money to spend on luxury, convenience, and on trying to take yet more money from the public.

From whatever they do spend on anything that directly benefits the students, it mostly goes to new uniforms for the football team, new bleachers, a completely new field, a jumbotron scoreboard, contracts with a private charter-bus company for away-games, etc. Maybe a little bit is set aside for the school's music department, but only because the football team has a marching band, and that's the only place within the music department where that money gets spent.

Things like textbooks and other assorted materials wind up pretty low on the list of priorities. Teachers wind up digging into their own pockets for supplies the school should be buying. Parents are given lists of supplies their kids are expected to bring. Those lists often contain a lot of things that the school is, by law, supposed to be responsible for providing - meaning we're already paying for them but the school has decided "screw you and your kids' education, once we take your money we can spend it however we want".

At least there aren't shareholders making a profit though, so I guess it's all sterling.
 
2019-02-19 11:17:35 AM  
People have gotten dumber.  I'm just trying to find a way to blame the boomers.
 
Z-clipped  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (1)  
2019-02-19 12:22:58 PM  
If you are not against the existence of charter schools, you're either an evil, un-American motherfarker, or you don't understand the situation they create.
 
Z-clipped  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2019-02-19 12:29:00 PM  

doglover: Autoerotic Defenestration: [img.fark.net image 500x653]

Yes. And some of them could be quite good if it weren't for assholes like Patricia Rucker, the hoopy fu fuggedabaowdit. Yeah, let's got with that.


We need to adapt the charter system to police forces.
 
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