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(ABC11 North Carolina)   Survivor of Montana Amtrak wreck that killed 3, injured 50 makes Doctorate level Philosophy arguments for & against trainwrecks   (abc11.com) divider line
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    More: Strange, Rail transport, Amtrak, Amtrak train, westbound Empire Builder train, Derailment, National Transportation Safety Board, Associated Press, local authorities  
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4182 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2021 at 10:05 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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Tyrone Slothrop  
Smartest (26)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:09:25 AM  
What in the world are you blathering about, subby?
 
WelldeadLink  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (24)  
2021-09-27 10:11:16 AM  
I detect some Survivor Bias. Let's hear the opinion of those who died.
 
Harry Freakstorm  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (16)  
2021-09-27 10:14:06 AM  
The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.
 
stuhayes2010  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (9)  
2021-09-27 10:15:07 AM  
I blame pennies on the track.
 
Rent Party  
Smartest (11)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:15:16 AM  
Smells like equipment failure.  That is long, straight track, and PTC would have stopped an over speed / curve derail.

BNSF owns that track, so I'm going with "something broke on one of the trailing cars" as my guess for cause.
 
WilderKWight  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (12)  
2021-09-27 10:18:58 AM  
Well, frankly, Me? I'm against train wrecks.
 
Dr Jack Badofsky  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (8)  
2021-09-27 10:19:27 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.


Well, he ahs to move the illegal aliens around the country somehow.  There aren't enough buses/bus drivers to go around.
 
thehellisthis  
Smartest (17)   Funniest (3)  
2021-09-27 10:20:05 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.


This line is for retired people who want to want to do the motorhome tour thing, but are smart enough to realize that means owning and driving a motorhome.
 
The Pope of Manwich Village [TotalFark]  
Smartest (13)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:23:32 AM  
I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.
 
aaronx [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (8)   Funniest (19)  
2021-09-27 10:26:54 AM  
Back around 1984 one of the guys I shared a big house with in Philadelphia, Scott Samuels, was playing his beater acoustic guitar on the Amtrak from Philly to Washington, I think. He was an entertainer, professionally, and the son of Jerry Samuels, a name some of you may recognize.

The guitar was originally a very expensive Martin, but had been damaged years before, which put it in his price range, and he used it when traveling.

At some point in the trip, the train derailed and many people were hurt. Scott escaped unscathed. Amtrak officials were checking with everyone to see if they were ok, and when they asked Scott if he was ok he silently showed them the big hole in the front of his Martin. They asked what kind of guitar it was and he was surprised to get a very large check about a month later.

He continued playing the broken one for years after, as far as I know.
 
Kalyco Jack  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (17)  
2021-09-27 10:27:20 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Tyrone Slothrop  
Smartest (20)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:30:57 AM  

thehellisthis: Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.

This line is for retired people who want to want to do the motorhome tour thing, but are smart enough to realize that means owning and driving a motorhome.


Travelling by rail can be quite enjoyable, especially if you have a sleeper car.
 
NEDM [TotalFark]  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:31:58 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.


This was the Empire Builder.  It's been Amtrak's most popular long-distance run ever since they formed.
 
taliesinwi  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:31:58 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.


People died.  There's not going to be a wrongful death lawsuit, or at least an attempt, in there somewhere?
 
BenSaw2 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (6)  
2021-09-27 10:32:03 AM  

aaronx: Back around 1984 one of the guys I shared a big house with in Philadelphia, Scott Samuels, was playing his beater acoustic guitar on the Amtrak from Philly to Washington, I think. He was an entertainer, professionally, and the son of Jerry Samuels, a name some of you may recognize.

The guitar was originally a very expensive Martin, but had been damaged years before, which put it in his price range, and he used it when traveling.

At some point in the trip, the train derailed and many people were hurt. Scott escaped unscathed. Amtrak officials were checking with everyone to see if they were ok, and when they asked Scott if he was ok he silently showed them the big hole in the front of his Martin. They asked what kind of guitar it was and he was surprised to get a very large check about a month later.

He continued playing the broken one for years after, as far as I know.


"Yeah, I'm fine, but there's a BIG GODDAMN HOLE in my guitar!!!

/   L to the OL's
//  LOL's ?
/// threes
 
Ivo Shandor [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:33:48 AM  
Tinfoil-hat twitter has pointed out the possibility of it being intentional, like https://www.npr.org/2015/04/12/399159965/20-years-later-sabotage-of-amtraks-sunset-limited-still-a-mystery
 
Mindlock  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (11)  
2021-09-27 10:35:31 AM  

WilderKWight: Well, frankly, Me? I'm against train wrecks.


Please, you anti-train wreck people make me sick.  You need the occasional train wreck to help keep people on their toes. If you don't, railway workers will get lazy and complacent.  Train wrecks also help provide passengers a valuable sense of just how fleeting life is.
 
Rent Party  
Smartest (10)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:35:31 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.


BNSF runs freight on that track and it is in their financial interest to ensure it is inspected and in a state of good repair.    Unexpectedly stopping a freight train is expensive.   Unexpectedly stopping a freight train due to derailment is ridiculously expensive.
 
johnny_vegas [TotalFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (12)  
2021-09-27 10:35:46 AM  

aaronx: Amtrak officials were checking with everyone to see if they were ok, and when they asked Scott if he was ok he silently showed them the big hole in the front of his Martin. They asked what kind of guitar it was and he was surprised to get a very large check about a month later.


thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size



c.tenor.comView Full Size


thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
Tarl3k  
Smartest (8)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:35:57 AM  
/CSB

About 35 or so years ago, on two separate occassions I took that route with my grandparents to visit my uncle who was working in LA at the time.  We took that route from Wolf Point, MT to Portland, then took the train down the coast.  Super fun trips, especially for a kid who grew up in a ridiculously small town in eastern MT...
 
WelldeadLink  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2021-09-27 10:38:17 AM  

BenSaw2: "Yeah, I'm fine, but there's a BIG GODDAMN HOLE in my guitar!!!


Oh, no. The sound is going to escape from his acoustic guitar! Can the EPA control those emissions?
 
Rent Party  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:39:16 AM  

WelldeadLink: BenSaw2: "Yeah, I'm fine, but there's a BIG GODDAMN HOLE in my guitar!!!

Oh, no. The sound is going to escape from his acoustic guitar! Can the EPA control those emissions?


Motorcyclists and guitarists share this in common.  After a serious accident, the first thing out of their mouth is "How is my bike/guitar?"

/ Does both.
 
Herr Morgenstern  
Smartest (25)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:39:32 AM  
I'm so glad I didn't see this until I got back from my vacation, I might have thought twice about taking a train. But I'm not about to get on an airplane these days, shiat's crazy out there.

I sprung for the Amtrak roomette, and oh god it was worth every penny. It's a tiny room, but it's perfect for one person. There's also a toilet and sink right there, meals are included, and the seats convert into a bed for sleeping. I got in and didn't have to leave until I got where I was going. I thought I'd be bored, but I had books and my laptop, and I enjoyed just sitting and watching the scenery going by. If you've got the time and money, I highly recommend it.
 
Geotpf  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:41:38 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Tinfoil-hat twitter has pointed out the possibility of it being intentional, like https://www.npr.org/2015/04/12/399159965/20-years-later-sabotage-of-amtraks-sunset-limited-still-a-mystery


Yeah, straight track, nothing to hit, clear weather.  It's either equipment malfunction or sabotage, methinks.
 
Rent Party  
Smartest (9)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:44:48 AM  

Geotpf: Ivo Shandor: Tinfoil-hat twitter has pointed out the possibility of it being intentional, like https://www.npr.org/2015/04/12/399159965/20-years-later-sabotage-of-amtraks-sunset-limited-still-a-mystery

Yeah, straight track, nothing to hit, clear weather.  It's either equipment malfunction or sabotage, methinks.


I have this argument within PTC circles a lot when they start crying about cyber-security on information that by design, is supposed to be available to any passing train and is already carrying a digital signature.

"If I wanted to stop trains, I could do more damage with $40 for a Home Depot sledge hammer and screw jack than I ever could by hacking into this system and faking up an authority."

And I'm not wrong.
 
the voice of raisin  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (12)  
2021-09-27 10:45:47 AM  
was rhis man onboard:
images.squarespace-cdn.comView Full Size

wanted for questioning:
img.cinemablend.comView Full Size
 
wingedkat [TotalFark]  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:46:31 AM  
I've taken that line several times, Minneapolis to Spokane or Seattle and back. Also the other way, to Chicago.

I'll travel Amtrak if there's an option and I have the time.  Takes longer than flying, but so much more comfortable.  Wish there were better N-S routes in the Midwest.  Fort Worth to Minneapolis would be nice.
 
Axeofjudgement  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2021-09-27 10:47:44 AM  

Rent Party: Geotpf: Ivo Shandor: Tinfoil-hat twitter has pointed out the possibility of it being intentional, like https://www.npr.org/2015/04/12/399159965/20-years-later-sabotage-of-amtraks-sunset-limited-still-a-mystery

Yeah, straight track, nothing to hit, clear weather.  It's either equipment malfunction or sabotage, methinks.

I have this argument within PTC circles a lot when they start crying about cyber-security on information that by design, is supposed to be available to any passing train and is already carrying a digital signature.

"If I wanted to stop trains, I could do more damage with $40 for a Home Depot sledge hammer and screw jack than I ever could by hacking into this system and faking up an authority."

And I'm not wrong.


Not to mention home depot at least used to sell a demo hammer with a bottle cap opener.

Get your exercise in. Sabotage the infrastructure and pop open your beer in one swoop!
 
WelldeadLink  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:51:21 AM  

Herr Morgenstern: I'm so glad I didn't see this until I got back from my vacation, I might have thought twice about taking a train. But I'm not about to get on an airplane these days, shiat's crazy out there.


15 people per car means there's a bit of elbow room there.
 
squegeebooo  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:55:08 AM  

taliesinwi: The Pope of Manwich Village: I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.

People died.  There's not going to be a wrongful death lawsuit, or at least an attempt, in there somewhere?


I think as part of the agreement between Amtrak and the lines they rent, in general, Amtrak assumes ALL liability from a derailment, regardless of who/what was actually at fault.
 
SirDigbyChickenCaesar  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (5)  
2021-09-27 10:57:41 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: What in the world are you blathering about, subby?


I assume this quote:

"My first thought was that we were derailing because, to be honest, I have anxiety and I had heard stories about trains derailing," said Vandervest, who is from Minneapolis. "My second thought was that's crazy. We wouldn't be derailing. Like, that doesn't happen."
 
the voice of raisin  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 10:58:02 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Tinfoil-hat twitter has pointed out the possibility of it being intentional, like https://www.npr.org/2015/04/12/399159965/20-years-later-sabotage-of-amtraks-sunset-limited-still-a-mystery


could have been this guy:
moriareviews.comView Full Size
 
Sofa King Smart  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (2)  
2021-09-27 11:01:08 AM  

aaronx: Back around 1984 one of the guys I shared a big house with in Philadelphia, Scott Samuels, was playing his beater acoustic guitar on the Amtrak from Philly to Washington, I think. He was an entertainer, professionally, and the son of Jerry Samuels, a name some of you may recognize.

The guitar was originally a very expensive Martin, but had been damaged years before, which put it in his price range, and he used it when traveling.

At some point in the trip, the train derailed and many people were hurt. Scott escaped unscathed. Amtrak officials were checking with everyone to see if they were ok, and when they asked Scott if he was ok he silently showed them the big hole in the front of his Martin. They asked what kind of guitar it was and he was surprised to get a very large check about a month later.

He continued playing the broken one for years after, as far as I know.


I know a guy who owns a sort of buy/sell/trade shop in a small town near here... over the years it has kind of devolved into just things he is interested in.. guns and musical instruments (mostly wooden string instruments... he plays bluegrass).  I was wandering through his 'shop' a few months ago and I noticed a beautiful taylor sitting on a stand... but when I looked closer I noticed it had a bunch of holes through the top and looking closer realized that they were bullet holes so I ask him about it.  he says the story is it belonged to the wife of some guy from around nashville... the guy was some heir to some fortune from selling out a chain owned by his family, like dollar general or something...  anyway the guy bought the wife the taylor big baby and she loved it... then comes the eventual cheating and divorce... guy signs the papers at the lawyers office giving her the house and possessions she wanted then goes to the house with his pistol and several clips and walks around shooting holes in things... including about 6 or 7 shots in the Taylor... not sure how this guy ended up with it.. but he played it and it still sounds good.. but one shot did go through the edge of the neck down near where it attaches to the body. not sure what it would take for him to sell it.. .he seems to like the story attached to it.
 
SirDigbyChickenCaesar  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:01:29 AM  

squegeebooo: taliesinwi: The Pope of Manwich Village: I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.

People died.  There's not going to be a wrongful death lawsuit, or at least an attempt, in there somewhere?

I think as part of the agreement between Amtrak and the lines they rent, in general, Amtrak assumes ALL liability from a derailment, regardless of who/what was actually at fault.


I know it used to be that way.  I was engineer for a company that had a sister subsidiary supplying railroad parts.  (Wheels, trucks, etc)

It was in the purchase order that the purchaser would indemnify the manufacturer regardless of the cause of the failure.  They would send parts back to us after a derailment to try and determine the cause.  There were times our other company would say "yes it was our wheel that did it"

They did refuse to allow any of their stuff to be used on passenger cars though so the rules could be different.
 
RailProf  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:02:38 AM  
Doubt it was an Amtrak equipment issue, more likely a track issue.The derailment was at a switch to a passing siding. My guess is one of the cars picked the switch. At 79mph, things go wrong fast. The NTSB folks are real good. They'll figure it out, but it'll take a while.

I was on an Amtrak in Illinois that hit a couch on the tracks. It messed up some wires between the engine and the cars so we were without power for a bit. But they hooked it back up and we went on our way after about 45 min.

Back in the 90s I was on this train, the Empire Builder, and we hit a car someone parked on the tracks in Wisconsin somewhere. It bounced out of the way and scraped the paint on the engine but we all were fine. Thankfully the car was unoccupied. But we still had to wait for the local police to clear the scene before we could resume the trip.
 
Mock26  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2021-09-27 11:04:30 AM  
img.washingtonpost.comView Full Size


What a Joplin may look like.
 
Sporkabob [OhFark]  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (6)  
2021-09-27 11:05:03 AM  
As a resident of Kentucky, what's an Amtrak?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Munden [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:08:11 AM  

thehellisthis: Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.

This line is for retired people who want to want to do the motorhome tour thing, but are smart enough to realize that means owning and driving a motorhome.


Very true.  With the amount of vacation time Americans get and the cost of train tickets, passenger Amtrak routes longer than a few hours are almost exclusively for retirees.
 
southernmanblog  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:13:37 AM  

stuhayes2010: I blame pennies on the track.


There were tracks behind my grandparents (in Ohio) and we tried that so many times. It worked perhaps one out of ten times. Then again I was eight and my brother was six.

And yes back in that era little kids were allowed to play out by the tracks. We didn't die, either.
 
LineNoise [OhFark]  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (1)  
2021-09-27 11:14:38 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Travelling by rail can be quite enjoyable, especially if you have a sleeper car.


I take amtrak from NYC up to upstate NY a few times a year. If everything goes according to plan (like 50% of the time) its about a wash for me vs driving. Cost wise its usually not very different from what i'd spend in gas too.

Sometimes shiat does go sideways and what should be a 6 hour trip takes 9, occasionally 12, but it isn't super common. Its usually just an hour or so delay.

Its comfortable, i can get work done along the way, have a beer, the scenery is nice, etc.

If i'm going to boston or DC i take it probably 80% of the time, usually a little quicker than driving, but to be fair, that is on acella, and also has much more frequent service, and isn't usually cheap.

This train is really just a scenic route. Nobody is using it for practical transportation, and unless you could get a train to run at 400 mph from chicago to portland, and maintain the infrastructure for dollars a day per mile, it would never compete with airlines.
 
hobnail  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:20:28 AM  
BNSF actually is pretty serious about track maintenance, and they run a lot of freight through that corridor.  It will be interesting to see what the NTSB finds.
 
NINEv2  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:22:58 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: I'm originally from Shelby, MT, which is about an hour from the wreck. This isn't exactly CSI Great Falls, but local buzz is that BNSF is going to get absolutely destroyed a slap on the wrist for not maintaining the integrity of the tracks.


I'm pretty sure we aren't ready for high speed rail.
 
Rent Party  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:24:47 AM  

RailProf: Doubt it was an Amtrak equipment issue, more likely a track issue.The derailment was at a switch to a passing siding. My guess is one of the cars picked the switch. At 79mph, things go wrong fast. The NTSB folks are real good. They'll figure it out, but it'll take a while.


Do you know where the  spot is?   That is a single tracked line and the closest switches I can find are down the line in Chester but it doesn't get mentioned in TFA.

If it was moving over a switch, then that's what I'd guess, too.   The locomotive didn't derail, just the cars.
 
Bread314  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (1)  
2021-09-27 11:31:58 AM  
I have traveled that line many times and I am 99% sure its crappy maintenance by BNSF.   Dad loved trains and hated to fly.  The ugly secret is Amtrak does not own most of the tracks they run on; they are allowed access by freight train companies.  Every single trip we took was delayed by at least 24 hours due to the track having to be repaired so we could continue or we'd just sit on a side spur for 12 hours because only 1 track was working and BNSF had no plans to fix things but still needed to move their freight. Most trips also included warnings that patches were going to be rough and they were.
 
cwheelie  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:36:29 AM  

WilderKWight: Well, frankly, Me? I'm against train wrecks.


Yes, but I wrote a letter
obscure?
 
Ambitwistor  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (4)  
2021-09-27 11:41:06 AM  

Herr Morgenstern: I'm so glad I didn't see this until I got back from my vacation, I might have thought twice about taking a train. But I'm not about to get on an airplane these days, shiat's crazy out there.

I sprung for the Amtrak roomette, and oh god it was worth every penny. [...] If you've got the time and money, I highly recommend it.


It is so choice.
 
patowen  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:42:40 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: What in the world are you blathering about, subby?


I think subby was commenting on this survivors soliloquy regarding the experience:

"My first thought was that we were derailing because, to be honest, I have anxiety and I had heard stories about trains derailing," said Vandervest, who is from Minneapolis. "My second thought was that's crazy. We wouldn't be derailing. Like, that doesn't happen."

She shares some subsequent thoughts too, with less philosophy.  I'm sure she's happy to still be able to think them.
 
maxandgrinch [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (1)  
2021-09-27 11:45:26 AM  
FTA "The images (on social media) showed sunny skies"  That rules out weather being the cause?
 
noitsnot  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2021-09-27 11:50:52 AM  

NEDM: Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.

This was the Empire Builder.  It's been Amtrak's most popular long-distance run ever since they formed.


Must be the cheapest
 
NINEv2  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (1)  
2021-09-27 11:52:55 AM  

noitsnot: NEDM: Harry Freakstorm: The train had about 146 passengers and 13 crew members onboard. The train had two locomotives and 10 cars, eight of which derailed, he said.

Talk about burying the lede.  146 passengers?  On Amtrak?  I blame Joe Biden.

This was the Empire Builder.  It's been Amtrak's most popular long-distance run ever since they formed.

Must be the cheapest


Southwest can get you from Seattle to Chicago faster and for like ten bucks more.
 
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