Boxing-heavy fighters & career longevity

Was listening to Luke Thomas’ postfight analysis for Kattar/Giga and he brought up an interesting point; essentially stating that fighters who have a boxing base or are reliant heavily on their hands as a form of offense inevitably take more damage than other styles due to being in range to be hit - by anything - more often.

that got me thinking and holy shit if that isnt spot on, off the top of my head some fighters who fit this:

Chuck
Max
BJ
Kattar
Burgos
Glover
Garbrandt
Lil Nog
JDS
Frankie
Zombie

All fighters who are reliant mostly on their hands as offense and all fighters who either:
A. Absorbed a metric fuckton of damage over time

B. Relied so heavily on that style that once their chin starts to go, it is just GONE without warning overnight

I know this isnt super insane insight and seems obvious when stated out loud but damn if I didnt realize most of the ones we love watching most fall off the quickest and hardest.

Im sure theres more but just wanted to share as it was just kind of a painful realization about these guys and their lives post-fighting…makes it a little harder to stomach their fights at times

(There are obvious outliers like Gus, Rampage etc who were more defensively sound with footwork/head movement but they are rare exceptional fighters)

live by the sword..die by the sword..

Epicness said:

Was listening to Luke Thomas’ postfight analysis for Kattar/Giga and he brought up an interesting point; essentially stating that fighters who have a boxing base or are reliant heavily on their hands as a form of offense inevitably take more damage than other styles due to being in range to be hit - by anything - more often.

that got me thinking and holy shit if that isnt spot on, off the top of my head some fighters who fit this:

Chuck
Max
BJ
Kattar
Burgos
Glover
Garbrandt
Lil Nog
JDS
Frankie
Zombie

All fighters who are reliant mostly on their hands as offense and all fighters who either:
A. Absorbed a metric fuckton of damage over time

B. Relied so heavily on that style that once their chin starts to go, it is just GONE without warning overnight

I know this isnt super insane insight and seems obvious when stated out loud but damn if I didnt realize most of the ones we love watching most fall off the quickest and hardest.

Im sure theres more but just wanted to share as it was just kind of a painful realization about these guys and their lives post-fighting…makes it a little harder to stomach their fights at times

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Might as well include Conor in there.

Touchbutt free flowing kicking Conor was an unpredictable striker, whereas the current wannabe boxer Conor has been stopped twice in a year in mostly standup fights

Wait? Frankie, Glover, and Chuck are being used here as examples of guys who DIDN'T have career longevity???

Get To Da Choppa said:

Might as well include Conor in there.

Touchbutt free flowing kicking Conor was an unpredictable striker, whereas the current wannabe boxer Conor has been stopped twice in a year in mostly standup fights

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I did think of including him but he is Machida-like in that he uses alot of kicks, evasion and counters that (up until recently) have helped him avoid taking virtually any damage in alot of his fights. Obviously the Dustin 2/3 and Khabib fights being exceptions

linvillegorge said:

Wait? Frankie, Glover, and Chuck are being used here as examples of guys who DIDN'T have career longevity???

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They had long careers but when they lost it was typically in a really abrupt or brutal manner, Glover is one of the only ones I can think of who both fits this mold and has worked his way around it through using other parts of his game (mostly his BJJ)

Frankie and Chuck have been in so many fights where they have absorbed a careers worth of damage in one night as a result of this too whether they won or lost.

The most basic way of restating this is that this style lends to unavoidable, frequent absorption of damage

Epicness said:

They had long careers but when they lost it was typically in a really abrupt or brutal manner, Glover is one of the only ones I can think of who both fits this mold and has worked his way around it through using other parts of his game (mostly his BJJ)

Frankie and Chuck have been in so many fights where they have absorbed a careers worth of damage in one night as a result of this too whether they won or lost.

The most basic way of restating this is that this style lends to unavoidable, frequent absorption of damage

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Yeah, your MMA boxers are the guys who tend to get old overnight. Some have longevity, some not so much, but when it happens it happens fast. Chuck's the most obvious example, Frankie seems to be headed that way.

Oh shit it's fight week boys

BenjaminDuffy said:

Yeah, your MMA boxers are the guys who tend to get old overnight. Some have longevity, some not so much, but when it happens it happens fast. Chuck's the most obvious example, Frankie seems to be headed that way.

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Exactly, like i said above it seems obvious at face value but its sad to think about and makes me respect these guys way more. They could take a safer approach but they choose to entertain every time instead

It is frustrating though when you think about how much just an evolved kicking game could extend or improve the quality of their careers

The only Luke Thomas fight analysis that matters:

Epicness said:

Exactly, like i said above it seems obvious at face value but its sad to think about and makes me respect these guys way more. They could take a safer approach but they choose to entertain every time instead

It is frustrating though when you think about how much just an evolved kicking game could extend or improve the quality of their careers

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Oh, you want sad to think about? Speaking of boxers who got old overnight, Marcus Davis came back and fought in November, 7 years after his last fight. And he won, which means you know he's going to keep going now.

TITS said:

The only Luke Thomas fight analysis that matters:

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Way to improvise

Doesnt seem all that different from the other styles? Guys get old.

A lot of those fighters have good longevity, and a couple of them are still in their prime.

Add Nate and Nick to that list.

I agree with TS.

But then again MMA is just a bad sport to age in. It really comes down to how much damage you take.

Glover will take your back (or mount you) quicker than a drunk, New Orleans, French Quarter native during Mardi Gras.

He CAN box but I wouldn't label him "boxing heavy". He's a "I'll take what you give me" fighter.

Poirierfan said:

Add Nate and Nick to that list.

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Thought about it but theyre kind of outliers too; not that they both havent suffered ridiculous beatings but their chins are so insane plus the fact their style of boxing in mma is kind of unorthodox helped both mostly avoid the sudden overnight drop off

Nick just got old and took too much time off, Nate has never been elite but he is still somewhat competitive despite his age catching up to him too

I think maybe even a lack of brain matter to begin with = theres less to rattle when they get hit? Been my running theory lol

cambo78 said:

Glover will take your back (or mount you) quicker than a drunk, New Orleans, French Quarter native during Mardi Gras.

He CAN box but I wouldn't label him "boxing heavy".

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You arent wrong that the current form of Glover doesnt fit the bill - he is the champ ffs but from the start of his UFC run up until the past couple years he mainly worked dudes on the feet with his hands or in the clinch up against the cage.

I dont remember the last time I saw Glover throw a kick with any kind of intent. But some of his losses are brutal or really onesided and thats why he had to change it up. Glover is also alot more down to earth without much of an ego - i think that for sure factors into why some arent willing to change up their style in a meaningful way when the damage piles up

Just my 2 cents

Honestly though I think the very toughest style for a fighter to keep to his a scambling heavy grappler, the kind of fighter who looks to relentless chained takedowns and lots of positional work.

I'm guessing the issue is that in MMA these kinds of fighters are often working via mixing grappling with striking which means they are either going for or defending takedowns when they are off balance moreso than would be the case in pure wrestling, lots of potential for joint injuries.

Both Cain and earlier Shogun come to mind as guys who fought this way and had a lot of injury issues, arguably Khabib as well.

Epicness said:

They had long careers but when they lost it was typically in a really abrupt or brutal manner, Glover is one of the only ones I can think of who both fits this mold and has worked his way around it through using other parts of his game (mostly his BJJ)

Frankie and Chuck have been in so many fights where they have absorbed a careers worth of damage in one night as a result of this too whether they won or lost.

The most basic way of restating this is that this style lends to unavoidable, frequent absorption of damage

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Chuck and Frankie absorbed a ton of damage because of their predictable defense, not because they are boxers. boxing isn't just about throwing punches, it's about avoiding them too. Chuck was a kickboxer anyway.

nearly all of JDS' damage came from the 2 Cain fights and it was because of Cain's wrestling not because JDS' boxing.

i don't even know how half the guys you said "got old overnight" some of those guys are current champions and top fighters in their divisions.

people get old in MMA because MMA is a brutal sport. even if you were a grappler, if you can't take the other guy down you're going to get smashed in the face.