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Ask HN: Something like Khan Academy but full curriculum for grade schoolers?
283 points by jmspring on July 10, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 104 comments
Khan Academy continually gets held up as a great resource for online courses across the age spectrum for math related subjects. With the continuing pandemic continuing to grow in the US and schools not really sure how to handle things, the GF and I are looking into other options.

Is there a recommended resource that gives unbiased (as possible) reviews for middle school (7-8th grade) curriculum? Searching these days really doesn't bring up quality, just options one has to comb through.




I'm a teacher with 15 years of experience and an edtech entrepreneur. I've reviewed thousands of secular homeschool programs for accuracy and quality. We're working on developing unbiased reviews of all of our favorites, but here are a few great all-in-one programs to get you started. All mastery-based, all secular and aligned with state standards. In general, these also combine hands-on projects with online learning, involve little to no prep time and minimal parent involvement in learning, with some element of personalization.

Critical Thinking Co https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/criticalthinkingco

Oak Meadow https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/oakmeadow

Time4Learning https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/time4learning

Moving Beyond the Page https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/moving-beyond-the-page

It's usually good to supplement with a math program, if your child is gifted or has special needs. Here is a review I wrote on what I consider to be the best math programs out there for parents doing learning from home. https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/the-best-math-programs-...

And here are my 50 favorites:) https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/50favorites

I would also be happy to give free advice to you (or any family reading this) for your particular situation. Feel free to reach out to me via my website if you'd like more personalized recommendations and we can find a time to chat:) https://www.modulo.app/


I love your list of top 50 favorites.

Have you reviewed this site, for learning piano:

https://app.hoffmanacademy.com/lessons/

I am currently teaching my 6 year old and my 3 year old how to play piano and guitar. We have gone through enough of his videos that I can honestly give his site two strong thumbs up.

As far as I can tell, all his videos are free. If the parent knows enough about music, they can use the free videos to supplement any beginner music curriculum.

I enjoyed his videos enough that I purchased his premium lifetime membership, which comes with workbooks and games. But my kids are young and I haven't made them work through workbooks yet. I'm trying to make it as fun as possible so far.

I have no affiliation with Hoffman Academy. I just think he's a great teacher.


Thank you so much! I didn't know about this and I want to write a review of music curricula so this is very helpful. Many thanks.


I've reviewed (for myself and my kids) enough sites to form a strong opinion. If you're interested, email me and we can chat about piano/guitar education. Contact info is in my profile. HN_username @ email_service . com


Do you have any suggestions for guitar lesson sites?


https://www.justinguitar.com/

Tons of free content on his site. Justin is a great teacher.


Thank you! I will check out the side with my kiddo.


How old is your kid? Justin Guitar is good for anyone who is self motivated. I think guitar is tough for young children, and has a higher initial learning curve than piano. My kid is 6 and I'm just teaching him simple tunes on one or two strings for now.


If you've got an iPad and don't mind dropping $150/yr, Simply Piano is pretty damn great. Strong focus on playing recognizable music, which helps keep interest up. No affiliation, just very happy with it. Nb as you get farther along you'll want a MIDI-out-capable digital piano because the (surprisingly good) microphone-based input can't keep up with more than ~3 notes played at once.


This is an incredible resource <3 The website doesn't seem to answer: what age does Modulo start at?

I'm confused by the current approach to schooling in the U.S. As functioning adults, society rewards people who can identify unanswered or poorly solved problems and come up with solutions. Meanwhile education focuses on drilling facts. In formal education, not including extra curriculars, the first time I see learners exposed to unanswered questions is graduate school.

I feel one of the best ways to learn is to practice the thing you are actually going to be doing. It's odd that we never practice answering novel questions. I.E. introducing the unanswered questions of the past, the context that lead us to asking them, and the approaches humans took to solving them. Do you know of any home-school programs that include something like this?


I don’t know if this true, but I’ve heard that the US education system was designed to prepare people for factory jobs. Clock in and out at certain times. Eat meals on a set schedule. Only use bathroom during scheduled breaks. Sit in your seat for extended periods of time. Rote learning. Repetitive tasks. Etc. I don’t know if it is true, but it does make a lot of sense.


My understanding is actually that they tried to apply the principles of factories to school. It's not so much that they want to prepare people to work in factories, as they wanted to create a process where you could take someone through the whole school system in a repeatable fashion and get an expected result, just like factories do for cars.

So instead of everyone of every age in the same class or a mentor system, you have everyone of the same age going though the same material every year.

Unfortunately what it tends not to work as well with are students behind their age curve or ahead of their age curve.


I know a lot of teachers, and not a single one has ever mentioned these things as values or design goals. I've never seen anything like this in any discussion of curriculum or pedagogy.

It's not plausible that they're all managing to keep it a secret. Someone would have spilled the beans, for example some early 20th century teacher writing a memoir, or something like that.

So, a fair guess is that if it's true, it's an example of a system that has evolved away from its original goals.


Um, obviously this would have been the design more than a century ago when the current school system was put into place. These days we seem to mainly do what we do because that is "how it has always been done". Tradition! You see little efforts to change things up (for example, special classes for advanced students), but for the most part you are still expected to show up at 7am, eat lunch at a specific time, go to the bathroom during breaks, leave at 3pm, sit in a desk for an hour plus at a time, etc.

I don't think there is some grand conspiracy. I think educators are not willing to go totally against the grain and absolutely throw out everything we do right now and start from scratch. For instance, school time before 9am is insane. Kids need more sleep than that. How about kids can get up and leave the classroom and go to the bathroom or go and eat whenever they want? Do we really need classrooms? Do we need dedicated buildings for school? Do we need schedules? Do all kids really need math, science, history, etc.? Just because we have always done things one way doesn't mean we have to keep doing them that way.


A useful thing I heard once is that "the purpose of a system is what it does."

We also don't need conspiracies to explain systems that are badly dysfunctional or have outcomes that are detrimental to society.


I wouldn't say it was explicitly designed for that endgoal, but I can concur that is where most low to mid academic achieving "kids" end up.

Edit: reference: I'm a 10x / unicorn at factory work environments, operating machines, metal fabrication, etc.


Efficient, effective systems models are emulated across many industries.


PreK-12th grade. And try Torchlight for inquiry-based learning https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/torchlight


Do you have resources for religious curriculum as opposed to secular? We are Hindu but I have had good luck relating with Christian resources


I am curious; what exactly do you mean by "religious curriculum" ? As a Hindu myself, i know of only the traditional "Gurukuls/Patashalas".


No, only secular.


[flagged]


Nice. I take it you've never met a Christian homeschooler? Comments like that reek of coastal elitism. I know, you read an article about Christians once on Vox.


I was subjected to christian homeschooling and christian private elementary schools. What he says is accurate.

Addendum: One of my wife's oldest friends is a christian who homeschools all of her children. She buys both secular and christian science curriculums so she can explain to her kids what the christian materials get wrong. But hey, I'm sure you read an article about this stuff once. =)


Not all Christians agree on evolutionism, creationism, and feminism. So yeah, I'm nodding my head at the parent comment that said the grandfather comment reeks of coastal elitism. The truth of the matter is that there is a lot of diversty in homeschooling approaches and curricula among Christians (even evangelicals).


I have met several. I can verify the creationism part in particular and what it meant for geology and astronomy. I haven't met any women who went through that type of schooling, so I can't vouch for the math part.


Interesting... as a Hindu evolution is perfectly integrated into our religion. Some "Hindus" still don't honor and respect women, but that doesn't match the teachings at all. Mata Amritanandamayi has some good videos lately about this


As a south american catholic, we do the same.


I'm really glad that I found your site -- great work!

I'm going to check-out the Singapore math Live support. It's surprising how challenging it can be to diagnose why one of my kids is struggling with a concept.


So wonderful. Please let me know if I can be of support.


Given your username, perhaps you can help me. My girls are enrolled in French Immersion, and need support for French (conversational and written). Any good resources?


It would be ideal if they could connect with French girls their age. I know some if you want an intro:) duo lingo is a good app for free language learning. I can also recommend some good tutors (volunteer or paid) if that’s helpful. I used to run a french language school so know lots of great people. Contact me through contact page on modulo.app


My daughter is in French immersion and I signed her up for lessons on italki.com so she continues to use it during the summer. Might be helpful for you too.


What do you think of italki? I'm about to sign up my kid for Chinese through them. Lots of tutors look very good in their intro videos.


Thanks for all the info. We are thinking of home schooling over the virtual learning for my 5 year old son. It sucks to think of skipping kindergarten, but this zoom environment is not conducive to kids, at all. Way to much overhead for parents as well. I could easily get my kid up to speed and well past the learning goals stated on my local school's web site.


Happy to help. For littler kids, definitely check out:

Blossom and Root for a more nature-based/hands-on program https://blossomandroot.com/

Torchlight. https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/torchlight

Also Khan App Kids of course https://www.modulo.app/all-resources/khan-app-kids

I think that there are ways to do meaningful social interaction online, but not in the way it's being handled in most places. I think that for this to be successful academics and socialization need to be compartmentalized. We should use zoom for activities like cooking, give kids the opportunity to talk about their day, discuss current events and share feelings, but not for lectures on academic subjects - and these group zooms should be short. There's a big need for innovation in this space, but it's not impossible to create meaningful social interactions online for kids. Alexis Buckley (who is also our is doing incredible work fostering social interactions online with Early Childhood Matters and the Little School. Definitely check out her classes. http://www.earlychildhoodmatters.org/

As you said, there are so many great tools for learning and little evidence that leaning on academics in the early years is even that important (look at the Finnish education system that doesn't start until age 7).

However, the in-person social interaction is the tricky part. We're generally recommending that families focus on building healthy social attachments with their own kids. That's the first and most important bond. And if you have a good relationship with your child, a healthy attachment, that will extend to a group setting. This kind of socialization can also be done by buddying with one other family that's rigorously practicing social distancing. Socialization does not have to happen in a huge group to be impactful.

Happy to chat with you more if I can be of any help whatsoever.


Same here, but with a 7 yr old and 9 yr old in 2nd and 4th grades. Remote learning in the Spring was nothing but time filler and extremely stressful as a parent.


Let’s talk. I’d love to be of support and explore ways we can make it less stressful and more fun, even joyful and exciting for you.


Check this for the math once he's ready: https://www.mathmammoth.com

The sight might look dated, but it's a curriculum written by one teacher who you can actually reach via email. My wife and I have looked at a bunch of different math options and this one seems like the best option:

- Mastery-based, with minimal repetition - All instruction is written for students, with no separate materials for parents, so older students can self-teach - Materials are organized by grade level or topic, it's your choice which you use - Can buy printed books (including spiral bound!) or PDFs - Companion instructional videos by the author - Dirt-cheap, probably because it's self-published with a single author

Here's a direct link to one of the sample PDFs for 1st grade: https://www.mathmammoth.com/preview/Math_Mammoth_Grade1A_Sam...

(There's no kinder materials because all they're typically expected to do in is be able to count, identify shapes, etc.)

This also looked interesting, but it's definitely a more involved curriculum with lesson separate scripted lesson plans:

https://rightstartmath.com/our-curriculum/the-rightstart-dif...

The plus for this one is that it's heavy on manipulation (using playing cards and an abacus) and light on counting and repetition.


Thank you so much for posting this. We are about 80% sure that we'll be homeschooling this year and figuring out how to approach that is not easy. Looking forward to digging through these resources.


Happy to help in any way I can. Feel free to reach out through modulo.app


Thanks, looks like a great resource.

Took a quick glance and I wonder why you have Beast Academy under Autistic kids and not for generic Math curriculum.


For that article we selected what we felt was the top resource overall for different types of learners. We’re still working on expanding this.


I should also specify that Beast is not designed specifically for children on the spectrum but parents with kids on the spectrum tend to love it. Also, Beast is a math curriculum, not an all-in-one. That needs to be fixed in the blog!


I'm expecting my first child in October.

You best believe I just bookmarked your site. I can't wait to show my wife


I'm so happy it was helpful. Please let me know if I can be of support in any way.


Anything targeted at Spanish speakers, specifically those living outside the US?


Why don't you recommend Khan Academy math?


I've done a lot of research on this topic, the short answer to your question is https://artofproblemsolving.com/

But during my research I came across the idea of "Computational Math/Thinking" which throws away the entire concept of learning Math/Science in the normal order

Pre Algebra > Algebra I > Geometry > Algebra II > Trig > etc

It takes more of a real life problem solving approach, which I understand isn't exactly innovative in and of itself but prioritizes using the computer for the calculation part of math.

Of course the process of using a pencil and paper to calculate an equation in probably 90% of the work in traditional curriculum. When you outsource this tedious part to software (like you would in real life) that leaves room for setting up bigger problems that literally cannot be calculated by hand.

https://www.computerbasedmath.org/ is a great resource for more info on this "computational" education


Also along these lines is the Bootstrap curriculum: https://www.bootstrapworld.org/


Prenda (YC S19) has a full curriculum with support and tools for the parents, k-8. More info here: https://prendaschool.com/prenda-family


> While we believe in the power of microchools

I'm forgiving of typos and such things, but as you are marketing a school, you might want to check your spelling.


Ed Hirsh Jr has these guides What Your ___ grader needs to know. I know I have seen it up to 6th grade, but I am not sure if there is a version for 7th and 8th.

My daughter uses ixl.com at school and it covers all the way up to 12th grade. Its is essentially adaptive learning. So this is good for doing practice problems. All the topics listed there are ones kids are expected to know for the respective grade level. So you could use this as a map.

I have also been supplementing her education with workbooks. I have a few other ideas to make some practical learning lessons with electronics and chemistry. We already do Scratch programming.


I have a love-hate relationship with the Hirsch books:

1. Much (all?) of the content covers topics that are useful to know, imho.

2. The whole idea of just spamming content is an incredibly reductionist approach to education. There is much more to learn out there.

3. Hirsch’s approaches to cultural literacy are tough for some folks to follow. On the surface, it sounds very oppressive. A slightly deeper look would say that it is a realist approach. A deep academic look would say that it misses a lot of what is probably possible in education and is focused on looking back rather than looking forward.

I do recommend folks check out his books and see if it floats your boat, but I also recommend that they don’t assume that they are complete as is in terms of what kids actually need to learn and know.


I would check in with a local homeschooling Facebook group for 1-on-1 support. We've been homeschooling our kids. The 7 and 9 year old use Kahn Academy for math, which works really well. They also have grammar options they have started.

My opinion is that a "complete" education through 8th grade is a nebulous goal. Reading, writing, math, history, art, life experiences, etc. are important.


Also homeschooling, also not trying to compete with academics for "complete" education.

I try to make sure all aspects of the person are engaged:

- Creativity

- Intelligence

- Athleticism

- Philosophizing

- Failing well (edit: aka encouraging ambitious goals)

- Exposure to novel things

Kids direct themselves, I help them find resources and help them stay on track.

For example, to think (philosophize) well, you need history. But not just the history from the perspective of the victors. Not just what is "accepted" truth.

We read history books that are not really covered in curriculum (Mongols, Islam, China, India). We cover religions. We watch Ancient Aliens and talk about what obvious explanations they are missing.

But I would have never gone down this path for them had I not stopped going to high school myself, because it was a fucking nightmare.


Students (pre-junior / senior year of high school for simplicity) need active role models in school and at home for appropriate overall development. The role models are typically teachers in school and parents at home.

That students are struggling to engage with digital content during home quarantine is expected. The good news is that students will adapt to digital content with time (within twelve months as a simple estimate), as unlike adults, they are more likely to normalize their behavior towards this environment and make it the routine for their education. The bad news is that no digital curriculum alone can replicate the classroom learning environment (even with its obvious systematic flaws) because mastery of learning content is a function of the learning environment as much as individual student motivation (until these students become independent learners). So parents homeschooling their children need to become more active role models for their children. The positive of this situation is that educated and empathetic parents can do a much better job of developing a secure environment for children than a classroom with thirty students and a cacophony of technology. The long-term mission for homeschooling parents is to develop “self-directed learners”, and the first step is understanding, practicing, and celebrating “metacognition”.

I will share this link, for core science experiential learning lessons, primarily for middle school students, which may complement textbook content, associated with the concepts: https://science60.com/homeschooling

Good teachers and motivated parents can make any learning content work, from traditional textbooks to Khan Academy lessons.


We homeschool our children and we also help run a homeschool academy. A lot of the kids love Outschool.


My wife is thinking about teaching on Outschool. What has been your experience with Outschool teachers, and what were the criteria for choosing a teacher?


All of the kids in our Academy have reported nothing but positive experiences with Outschool and really enjoy the courses. It's the first place we all look when augmenting their schooling outside of our Academy. If any of the various teachers had been bad, we would have heard about it. I can't speak to the selection criteria, only the perspective of students.


Look at EngageNY curriculum (which is really EL Education, Public Consulting Group, Eureka Math, Illustrative Math and a couple of other providers put together). It is pretty excellent, and free! You can also find curriculum from these individual providers separately.

Then, visit OpenUpResources. Same theme.

EdReports.org has curriculum reviewed to align with Common Core.

The above are mostly limited to ELA and Math, for Science, there is OpenSciEd, SCALE/SFUSD Middle School Curriculum, and Mystery Science, for Civics there is Annenberg Classroom, and rest of the social studies, I know some effort is going on, but can't quite remember where the curriculum might be.

The reason I know these is because I run opencurriculum.org (YC W14), and we are trying to bring this information under one roof.


I'm an engineer at Illustrative Mathematics. Here's what I know: Eureka Math is derived from EngageNY. Illustrative Mathematics is an openly licensed, freely available curriculum which was developed independently from EngageNY. You can learn more about it at http://curriculum.illustrativemathematics.org.


Thank you for the wonderful work you do, cynicalloner!


Thanks! Cynical I may be but I do love our mission at IM.

And I'll just leave this here because at work we were all laughing our heads off about it. We joked about hiring the author to write practice problems for us. ;-)

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-broken-lives-behind-....


My kids are younger than yours, so I can't say too much about curriculum for grades 7/8. But having spent quite a bit of time in homeschooling groups during the lockdown (we are not homeschooling but had to supplement), I've noticed these curriculums get discussed a lot.

For language arts: Michael Clay Thompson (we are using this), Brave Writer, IEW. For maths, Beast Academy or Art of Problem Solving for your kids (we are also using this, huge fan, great for full-time homeschooling or after school supplements in my opinion), Saxon Maths (mixed reviews). Science takes more sifting since quite a few are religious.

I noted all the programs I came across (mostly through mentions in homeschooling groups) in a list in case it's interesting to anyone (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132lzqsfGzUvo7iPGrvBN...), do filter for subject and age to get the relevant entries. It's work in progress so excuse the mess.



I’m not sure about a full course. But I have a younger sibling going into 8th grade. He’s been doing learning on IXL to supplement his education this summer. It offers different subjects like math, language/literature, science etc. He’ll do that for 2-3 hours on weekdays.


As far as I can tell, the Math IXL system was designed to make people hate math.

Open-answer questions rarely specify the answer format, and will thus accept only one of 0.5, 0.50, .5, 1/2, 4/8 ... etc while rejecting all the rest. Then the next question will not keep the same format.

Points for correct answers add to your score, but not linearly; points for incorrect answers subtract from your score, but not linearly.

Endlessly frustrating.


I..am..so..with..you.

IXL is absolute garbage, as should be expected from any Pearson product. And the morons at Seattle Public Schools are dumping money into that dumpster fire like it's going out of style.


IXL engineer here. We're not a Pearson product.


IXL engineer here. My comments express my opinions, not those of my employer, etc etc.

We don't try to be unfair; we're trying to make math fun. Please send a note to help@ixl.com if you run into questions that silently require a too-specific answer format, and we'll fix it.


No. It's absolutely pervasive, it was required as part of my son's school curriculum, and you've lost me permanently as any kind of customer. I have also been assured by the math department that they will not be continuing the use of IXL products when they finish their curriculum revamp.

Your product is terrible and anyone who likes math could have told you it was terrible from using it for 30 minutes.



We tried this and had to drop it after ~4 months because it was painful to run it as a parent and boring AF for our son.

It's designed to keep kids and parents busy for ~8 hours a day, because their customers are online charter schools, not homeschooling parents.

These online charters get paid based on attendance, so it's in their interest to have kids occupied all day every day.

Please, do not ever use K12. It's terrible.


We've tried a bit of homeschooling over the years, and there is an important difference between what looks good to parents and covers the required standards, etc.... vs. what actually engages our children and makes them satisfied with their educational experience.

We never tried K12, but I recommend that the kids be involved in selecting what tools to use, as they are the ones who have to use it every day.


I agree that Khan Academy is great for math. For a full middle school (and high school) accredited curriculum, you might check out Apex Learning Virtual School https://www.apexlearningvs.com. They offer live teaching and tutoring support, self-paced learning and a flexible schedule.


I realise that your child isn't there yet, but once they reach high school, I'd recommend that you introduce them to edX, where there are tons of courses on practically everything, taught by college professors. It can help them expand their knowledge in areas they're interested in that aren't in the standard school curricula. It's pretty awesome (high school student here).

https://www.edx.org


My kids go to a microschool in Washington DC. They are developing a full curriculum with the idea that you learn from the resources around you (specific to your town city). They have developed an APP with weekly menus for the kids. During COVID thay crushed it, kids 4 ids learned more in three months than they have in a year. great for travel too www.mysaschool.org


Perhaps aimed at a lower age group, but I think https://www.e-learningforkids.org/ should also be mentioned. They provide free primary school education for all kids. Currently mostly focused on math though.


Great resource. Glad to have stumbled upon it.


Not for grade schoolers, but I just started this program (https://busytoddler.com/) for my 3-year-old. Gives you a lot of ideas and a specific schedule to follow which helps a lot!


I have been looking for this as well. So far Khan Academy has been brilliant in remote math curriculum, in fact my children are learning math faster in Khan Academy than with IRL instruction. If there was something equivalent for writing I'd be over the moon happy.


For composition, try https://bravewriter.com/ For handwriting, try https://www.lwtears.com/


Not quite what you are asking for, but there is a great tool called Kickstand (www.kickstandsystems.com)that is in use in a number of districts that allows curriculum to be aligned with standards and organized in a defined scope and sequence. At the core of the systems is a big standards aligned curriculum library. The system will deliver content to a student and then assess them on that content. Based on the result of the assessment the system can deliver new resources for remediation or allow the student to move ahead at their own pace. Content is managed by the district and allows content ratings by students and instructors. This is really where learning technology needs to go to enable individualized instruction in online settings at scale. Full disclosure: I wrote the first version of the Kickstand product about 5-6 yrs ago


You might find https://JoinPrisma.com to be an interesting option if you’re looking for both curriculum and the support of a qualified teacher.


This would be an excellent open source project for those outside the software space.


This is one of the things I'm trying to solve for at https://learnawesome.org . And yes, it is open-source. Need more users to start contributing though.


If it's open source, then why do you have to login to see a sylabus?


I wanted to encourage people to join and start contributing to the repository. Started a discussion on this question here: https://github.com/learn-awesome/learn/issues/79#issuecommen...

Feel free to suggest more ideas to make it a vibrant learning community.


“ Your first topic will be free of cost.“ This doesn’t sound like the project is fundamentally committed to open source.


Can you point out where it says this? I need to correct this with s/topic/course as all the content and code is available for free and licensed as AGPL. Even API access is available to build alternative clients.

This is supposed to refer to "courses" which are structured, project-based peer groups where mentors spend time to evaluate your projects and answer your questions. By compensating them for their time, we can get really high-quality mentors for 1-1 feedback on your learning projects.

The unstructured peer groups (in the Slack channel) are and will remain completely free.


That's a beautiful site. What is using ActivityPub for?


If I am a user on LearnAwesome, you can subscribe to my book/course reviews and learning activity on any ActivityPub client like Mastodon, without ever signing up on LearnAwesome website itself.



I'm actively building a solution for programming related content, with the goal being that courses feel like games:

https://qvault.io


https://cathyduffyreviews.com/ is a resource that my wife likes for curriculum reviews.


IXL Learning https://www.ixl.com/


Yes, there is a lot like this out there.

The question I would have for you is what state are you looking for? Thanks.


What's your opinion on educational games?


Maybe junilearning.com?


ck12.com has a full range of textbooks available at no cost


Girlfriend and you have children together? You should get married :)


I couldn't imagine a less off-topic and unwelcome comment if I tried.


How about this one. I think you meant to say "I couldn't imagine a more off-topic and unwelcome [...]"


I guess you haven't read the comments on Hacker News very much before




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