Stop watching so much news, dude. Everything has always been terrible. The reality is, you have more access to more information than ever before in human history, and it's all pushed by companies trying to suck you in with more engagement, largely by inducing excessive emotional reaction to things outside of your control (and in many ways, things that have no actual bearing on your life)

Maybe I'm spoiled for parks in Philadelphia, but it shouldn't be that hard to get to nature from any city. I also go on urban hikes to clear my head.

The problems you describe won't be solved by a move to a small village. You need to ween yourself off the news you read. I'm not suggesting becoming a luddite, but stop gorging.

By far, the mid-sized city is the best of both worlds.

When I lived in LA, I absolutely felt like I was living in a dystopian parody of a progressive city. When I lived in small towns, I absolutely was annoyed that everyone knew my relatives and thought we were friends or something because of that. Zero anonymity.

But Minneapolis has historically been good, though it's changed a lot since George Floyd. Now we live in a smallish suburb and get all the amenities without the claustrophobic small town bullshit.

OP, just try moving to a distant suburb, and embrace the wisdom of middle age.

A smallish city will provide 90+% of what you'd get out of a big city without the dystopian backdrop.

I grew up in a small town, moved to a big city, then moved to a smaller city during COVID, with the intent of it being temporary until things go back to normal, and now I don't want to go back. Just as much to do, with less traffic, lower cost, and it feels a lot safer to walk around.

I bought a pretty damn big house (comparative to what I had in the Bay Area). I'm taking more vacations. The people are nicer than SF Bay Area, you can go places (restaurants on a weekend, for example!) without having to wait in long lines or park a million miles away. You can get tickets to concerts without having to be the FIRST person on Ticketmaster the moment they become available. You can get to nature a lot faster (I went skiing a couple months ago and it was bonkers how there were no lines or waiting for anything). Everything just feels easier, like you get to enjoy everything 20% more than you can in a metropolis where everything feels like a hassle and you've got people crawling on you like roaches.

This is something to be very careful about. If you aren't religious -- or, actually, if you aren't evangelical protestant or maybe in some places catholic -- there are many, many rural communities where you will be a de facto outsider. There are also many rural communities where this isn't true. You just have to be aware of this when deciding where to move.

In the end, I feel our community has embraced us. I coach a girl's field sport that now 50% of all school age girls participate in. When we "go to town" everyone knows me and calls me coach. I feel I have been able to show a small rural community that atheist, liberal, immigrants are not here to destroy America as many suspected we might. They have showed me conservatives can act with compassion and stunningly (to me at least) that many laws that make perfect sense in a city make absolutely no sense in the country.

They all think they will move to rural community to live simpler, more selfsufficient life among other people, casualy share tips on permaculture with their neighbors and what not.

You might get lucky to find similar minded people, but at the end newcomers are just those ridiculus city folks that come to the town, talking weird stuff, while local hold blue colar jobs in nearby town or hustling income as helping hands whenever they can. Most people do not chose rural places, they just don't have any other choice. Also rural poverty is a thing.

But then I lived most of my life in big cities, and for me moving in a rural community a few steps from the forest where I can walk between two meetings definitely solved many problems. Being free of all the stress of city life and connecting to nature really helped with emotional work and gaining perspective. I don't regret my 20's but I'm glad I found calm and happiness. Maybe in a few years I will have sufficiently recharged to be able to move back in the city.

Also I don't know about Philadelphia but in most cities I lived parks were small and sterile and real nature was not easily accessible.

Oh yes, Philadelphia's got parks: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/philadelph...

Want to get lost in nature? Fairmount Park goes on and on. You can drive about an hour to the Poconos if you want even better isolation in nature.

We've got a whole pile of National Parks in the city, too. Obviously not the scale of Yellowstone, Yosemite et al, but usually very well maintained, and stocked with National Park Rangers, who, no matter the national park I've been in, are hands down some of the best human beings I've interacted with.

There are definitely the more small/sterile neighborhood parks like you described, but the city has also had five public squares designed into its original 17th century plan, and they've somehow survived into the 21st century, mostly for the better. And then there's the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, cutting a 45 degree slice through the grid system for a tree-lined, walkable space running between the world class Philadelphia Museum of Art and our second-empire-style City Hall, which probably only still exists because in the early 20th century, the city ran out of money before they could demolish it.

I used to live in Downingtown, three minutes' walk from the train, and about 30 seconds walk from a sprawling rails-to-trails park system organized around the local creek. There were definitely benefits to that (didn't have to wear high-viz during hunting season) but in my situation, I came to prefer a more urban home base. It's funny because we initially moved there from central PA, and it felt kind of cute and even a little bit hip. Lived in Philly proper for a few years before coming back to our Downingtown house for a couple years. Now, it felt like I was in the sticks, man. Like, I knew what "the middle of nowhere" really was, and this wasn't it, but it still felt like I was on the edge of civilization by comparison, and not necessarily in a way I appreciated. Now we're back in the city.

Glad you've got a good situation, and context from previous, very-different situations too! Ultimately, the key is to adapt to your surroundings and make the most of what you've got. And if you're fortunate enough to have the option to change things up, well that's just a bonus.

Anonymous, sure. But how can anyone be self sufficient in a city? Do you have a large garden? Rainwater tanks? The tools and workspace to do your own plumbing, construction? Do you have solar panels and batteries?

If the utilities all shut down and the grocery stores all closed, everyone in a city would die or flee. It is impossible to be self-sufficient in a city.

Glad you asked! Let's go over your questions.

>Do you have a large garden? Rainwater tanks?

I've got space on my roofs for a garden - I own a three story building that has 100% lot coverage (something you can still afford to buy in Philadelphia) I could easily install rainwater tanks indoors (since our rainspouts travel inside our house to drain into the sewer line) or outdoors - but I walk to the produce merchant and use one of the longest-operating municipal water supplies in the country. Currently we just have herbs and cherry tomatoes in our roof garden.

>The tools and workspace to do your own plumbing, construction?

As a matter of fact yes. This is the third home I've owned. First one was built in 1905 in the suburbs and was a gut job. Everyone should have a circular saw and an 18v cordless drill, but I've also got plumbing supplies and electrical supplies. We hired contractors for this place because it was a complete gut job (down to three walls, and we had to install steel structure) but we generally don't have to call contractors unless we're short on time. Our second house was built in the 90s and didn't need much work, but since we learned on our first house, we updated the floors (we have tools for tiling too) and cabinets - largely pre-built. We tried something more raw on the first home, and it nearly caused my wife and I to divorce. Why bother when mass manufacture has solved the problem? Even still, I do tend to build my own desks/shelves.

And, being in a city designed for horses, if I'm missing tools, I walk to the hardware store. I've got a van, if I need bigger things than I can carry. And if I didn't have a van, I could take transit (or a taxi or rideshare) to the big box store, rent a truck from Home Depot, and use that to transport big goods.

>Do you have solar panels and batteries?

I've got a long flat roof, and a neighbor who sells solar. We've opted instead for a green roof, but that's sort of a phase three thing for the building. Talking about self-sufficiency while ignoring the benefits of society, then simultaneously crowing about solar panels seems a little bit like moving the goalposts in terms of what counts as self-sufficient.

>If the utilities all shut down and the grocery stores all closed, everyone in a city would die or flee.

That's a big if for a city, but a reality in rural communities. In my lifetime, towns in my country have been abandoned. WalMart moves in, and Main Street is boarded up in a matter of years. Industry gets offshored, and people who can afford to will flee. "Ghost towns" are an attraction across America.

The closest thing to a ghost city in my country was Detroit in the early 2000s. Even cities destroyed in wars are rebuilt more often than they aren't.

>It is impossible to be self-sufficient in a city.

Context matters. If you want to talk about bronze age self-sufficiency, I'm sure it's a great thought experiment. There's an efficiency modifier to self-sufficiency in urban environments, and as evidenced by placed occupied for multiple millennia such as London, Constantinople, Beijing, or even cities like Berlin and Baghdad and Cairo, even when things get real bad, cities are much more likely to recover.

It's all relative. I grew up in York County and lived in Harrisburg for a couple of years. Philly's tech scene is fucking great by comparison. Now that tech is so remote-heavy, you've got access to national/global salaries, while having comparably affordable housing, more methods of public transit than any other city in America (coverage is admittedly a different story), a nearby airport, the rail corridor, and comparably sane weather, aside from the subtropical summers.

While I work from home now, for years I worked in a historic 19th century bank building above a bar in a walkable neighborhood full of restaurants, art galleries, parks, and boutiques. My visits to the Bay Area remind me of the suburbs... sure, pay is way higher there, but you're driving to a corporate park that, from the outside, might as well be Exton PA or Springfield Ohio or something. And everything else is so far away.

If a show comes through town and I miss tickets, I can hop on a train (or drive) to New York or Baltimore or DC or Boston.

Everything has its pluses and minuses. Because of the Philly tech environment, I bought an old theater on a hill by the river that I live above, and during renovation found thousands of 18th century revolutionary war era artifacts, which became a whole side quest (and a 27 episode podcast to boot). I think it would be rare to be able to do something similar in a city with a more "rich" tech environment.

I'm sure there are people who are perfectly content with their tech job in Omaha, or Austin, or Salt Lake City, or San Jose, and there are also people (like OP) who aren't content with what they have either. Heck, I was doing "fine" in York for a while.

Well sure, 1 > 0. The global salary thing seems to be moot. I hardly see any international postings. I assume the salary would be even lower too.

In terms of actual dependence, I feel equally self-sufficient in both places. Rural people massively under-estimate their dependence on global economic systems and particularly three things. First, the regular weekly flow of gasoline and diesel and various finished goods. Second, the regular monthly flow of social security checks. Third, tax dollars from major metros to fund schools. At least where I lived our school system was almost completely funded by state tax dollars that were re-appropriated from suburban and urban districts; the local tax base accounted to something like something like one tenth of the district's education budget.) These dependencies exist in cities as well, of course, but there doesn't seem to be any confusion about that fact in cities.

Sure, we had to drive to more play dates and the closest kids who are actually our neighbors live almost a mile away. However, my kids and really most kids in my community safely ride and play alone in a manner that might get city parents arrested. These kids help manage active herds and flocks.

Sure, our community relies on external energy that we take for granted, just like city folk rely on food and water they take for granted.

I don't get your social security check point/dig though. Do you believe there are somehow fewer recipients of such services in cities? I personally know a guy who refuses his social security on principle.

While I know rural schools can have funding issues, I know our public schools are well funded and we don't end up getting our per-student fair share of state funding as our system is well capitalized. As far as quality goes, I don't think there is any question that city schools are craptacular when compared to suburban and rural schools.

> However, my kids and really most kids in my community safely ride and play alone in a manner that might get city parents arrested.

This is ignorant, tbh. Elementary and middle school students take the subway to school alone, all the time. In many cities schools even hand out free/subsidized transit tickets.

Kids getting arrested for walking or biking alone in a city is rare. Also, the stories that make it to HN's front page are almost always about rural communities or sparse suburbs not near a major metro. The last one happened in a town in rural Connecticut. In Reason's archive of free range parenting articles, I cannot find a single story about an arrest in a city. All of those arrests happen in either rural or suburban communities.

OP: you are more likely to be arrested for letting your child wander around alone in a suburb or rural area than in a dense city.

> Sure, our community relies on external energy that we take for granted, just like city folk rely on food and water they take for granted.

Again, I am giving OP advice.

If OP moving to a rural area so that he is not dependent on modern life, he's most likely in for a rude awakening.

Everyone understands that city dwellers are dependent on others. Many city folk move to the country thinking they will be independent, not realizing that they will still be dependent on others and on society.

> school funding

Very state dependent.

Again, I am giving OP advice.

If he's in a state where this is true -- and there are many where it's true -- his kid's school quality will depend on state funding formulas. Raising local taxes to pay for schools if that formula changes will be very difficult. State level politics may have pragmatic impacts on your life in a way that doesn't happen in a city that can insulate itself from statehouse politics. You're often trading city counsel politics for statehouse politics. Not always. Often. Something to be aware of -- if you're moving to a rural area to escape the effects that politics can have on your life, it aint gonna happen unless you go full off grid and home school. Where there are people and services, there is politics.

> As far as quality goes, I don't think there is any question that city schools are craptacular when compared to suburban and rural schools.

Another ignorant assumption about cities.

Most of the best best-ranked public schools in the country are located in cities [1].

If OP wants to provide a best-in-class education, that's possible in cities by getting into the right public magnets. And in every city there are excellent but not top-x-in-the-world public schools that are easier to get into.

It's also possible in rural areas, but usually requires out-of-school enrichment. Which can be easier and more accessible than getting into great magnets for many folks! Again, not digging rural areas, giving OP actionable advice.

Some rural schools are terrible and some are excellent. Similarly, some city schools are terrible, and some are truly excellent. OP: anyone who tells you otherwise about either rural or urban schools is ignorant.

I am not competing with you about urban vs rural. These posts are not directed at you. I am providing OP with accurate advice about how to manage a transition. That involves pointing out the things that can go wrong and how to address them, not fixating on the things that come easily.

[1] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-...

I have lived in NYC, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Toronto, London, Tampa, and San Francisco. The downtown parts, not their burbs. I think that qualifies me to have an opinion about city living.

This is ignorant, tbh. Elementary and middle school students take the subway to school alone, all the time.

Some places, sure. Others you can get arrested for that:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending...

Sure there are great public schools, but... the great ones are generally competitive admissions drawing from wide areas. The number 1 school being:

Students from Fairfax, Arlington, Loudoun, and Prince William counties and from the Cities of Fairfax and Falls Church are eligible for admission.[32] Students must be enrolled in Algebra 1 or a higher level math class in 8th grade and have a minimum GPA of 3.5 to be eligible

While that school might technically qualify as public, the admissions process looks like a private school to me.

When I say "public school", I'm talking about the school that your kid is going to go to "by default" outside of any kind of lottery system. I can assure you that in Philly that meant craptacular. Despite the reputation of Masterman the only Philly school in your top 150. Their enrolment is hyper competitive. Masterman's acceptance rate is 3% of applicants making it more selective than Harvard University.

I do agree that rural schools are not universally great or even good. Ours happens to be and we selected for that. I would say that understanding the community's expectations for post graduation are key. If the community does not expect the vast majority of high school graduate to go to 4 year college then the local school system priorities are likely to align with that expectation and that is important to understand.

I understand we are all attempting to help the OP. You were the one that introduced the spurious points about resource dependencies, the flow of social security checks and reallocation of school funding. All these seem to having nothing to do with city vs urban living and in my opinion apply more to city living than rural living. In fact New York State had to be sued to properly fund NYC public schools.

In many rural areas, you have kids as young as 10 hunting (supervised, or supposed to be), fishing, riding their bike places, exploring or "hanging out" in the woods, building things, working with power tools, etc.

Really, location foent matter that much. It's the parenting style and what constraints the local culture places on them.

Go back and re-read. Not everyone follows the rules.

"But with who?"

Friends within a couple miles, siblings, etc.

"You have to be intentional for this to be possible in rural areas. Not even "safe", just literally possible."

Yes, tell me my life experiences. Now stop trolling. It is literally possible and people do bike and walk places miles away. Don't believe me? Go look at the Amish.

Which may or may not exist within 2 miles. Or even 10. Again, you have to be more intentional. In a city you can buy pretty much anywhere and the kid will have neighborhood friends. When moving to a rural area you have to think about this a bit more carefully. It's possible but not default.

If you buy a place 10 miles away from the nearest house with kids who have a reasonable age overlap, then that's going to have a huge impact on your kid's independence.

I am not trolling you. I don't care about you at all. I am addressing the original poster. I am giving them reasonable advice: you have to be more careful about where you buy in rural areas if you want your kid to be independent.

There are downsides and things to be careful about when moving to any area. I am not attacking your lifestyle. I am simply pointing out some of the things that you need to think more carefully about when moving to a rural area, especially if you are a city person with no knowledge of rural life. I would give a similar list of downsides and how to mitigate them if OP were a person who has only lived in rural areas and was asking about city life. "Don't buy above a noisy bar; you can cross boundaries between safe and unsafe in a short stroll; research the transit system; having a car will be expensive but essential if you want to get out of the city; school quality can be excellent or terrible; apartment living has many downsides you'll need to be careful about mitigating; etc."

None of these things are reasons to live in one place or another, and there are ways to address the problems. But you have to be aware of the problems in order to mitigate them. And the OP has never lives in a rural area, so might not have thought about "oh, if I am 2 miles down a gravel road and the nearest cluster of properties is 12 miles down the road then my kids have a hell of a bike ride if they want to play after school without depending on me shuttling them around. Odds are they'll probably end up on the internet a lot instead of doing the 7-14 mile ride on any given afternoon."

Not a reason to move to a rural area! Just something to think about and consider -- cutting that down to 2 miles from 14 changes the game.

My posts are not directed at you. They are advice to a different person entirely. But since we're here, another observation about rural life: aggressive and angry people are not unique to cities; they exist everywhere.

Parents in cities have been arrested for letting their 10 year old kids play in the public manicured park unsupervised. Google "Free Range Parenting" as a city thing.

There is no way to compare the independence and freedom to play and roam of a country kid with a city kid.

We moved to the country precisely because we felt is would have been ludicrously dangerous to let our 8 year old wander the streets of Philadelphia unsupervised. There was no chance in hell we would allow her to hop on an Amtrek to go hunting for frogs in some creek.

Okay. I googled it. I'm seeing articles about parents being arrested for this sort of thing in places like Blairsville, Georgia (pop. 526) and Killingly, Connecticut. Not exactly massive cities...

If cities arrested kids for waling or biking or being on the subway alone, no one would be able to make it to school in the morning.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/13/living/feat-maryland-free-ran...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/09/05/mom...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/...

Here is a counter arguments against your school point:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/single-dad-barred-from-sending...

I come from a small town in India. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think these things are any better in rural parts of the world. In fact, they could be worse. Yes, life is simpler and the community aspect is good. But what you mention are fundamentally human problems. Greed will show up on the door as soon as ancestral property gets mentioned. It doesn't take long for a small issue to turn into a verbal clash. The things that people believe in could be borderline disturbing.

On the plus side, I like the general slowness of everyday life. I like how things like productivity and using time well are alien there. I don't deny pursuing a simpler life might work for you, but I don't think it's the magic pill. Smartphones and Internet have created unique problems, but they still stem from human nature.

Additionally, I don't see why pursuing a simpler life isn't possible, to a good extent, without uprooting your life. Stop watching the news. Go out in the park, and "waste" 1-2 precious hours just admiring the birds and trees. Meditate. Rather than trying to fix the environment, prfioritize how to view your life better. I highly recommend reading books for this.

Life is slower, there is more of an emphasis on community, the cost of living is lower, the schools are solid, there is far less crime and homelessness, and you can commute to the urban amenities as needed.

Does it have EVERYTHING an large urban area provides, obviously not, but life goes on just fine without those things. What's more important to me? A boxing gym in walking distance or being able to pay my house off in less than ten years?

Moved from London (9m pop) to suburban North Leeds (800,000-1m pop), much better. Still get the semi-anonymity of a city, and the things that I enjoy about them (varied food to eat out, markets, theatre, cinema, bowling etc), but I'm also 5 minutes from national parks, waterfalls etc.

The beauty about Leeds in the UK is as soon as you go North, there is basically nothing major until you hit Scotland. So you can be away from people very very quickly which is rare in the UK, whilst also not cutting yourself off from the world.

It's also ace as the city has a great identity and community. The running clubs are full of the most varied and grounded people, from all walks of life, that I have ever met. We do a lot of fell racing in the Yorkshire Dales in all elements. The community spirit found around running the rain, up hills, and bonding over cake, local beer and Yorkshire tea is amazing and reminds you of how great most humans are.

There is also great civic pride in local food, drink, culture. There are incredibly accessible and affordable spas for weekend breaks to sauna and massage (Rudding Park) within a 20 minute drive, that aren't booked out months in advance or full of instagrammers or full of London city bankers. Just locals having a laugh.

OP, I get the feeling, I almost did the same. But do not go remote for these reasons. Move somewhere smaller maybe (smaller cities have greater identity and community than large mega-cities without the drawback of towns or hamlets), but make sure you assess the world through the people you talk to and interact with, not the internet or news. Otherwise you will get way more depressed.

Happiness is only real when shared.

My personal experience is that, despite London indeed having an impressive offer in terms of culture, entertainment, food, social life, etc. it's an illusion. Most people do home -> work -> home, with the exception of the local pub. Even meeting with friends which are not work colleagues is complicated, usually involving 1 hour commuting each way.

So in London the choice is amazing, but I enjoyed almost none of it. In Newcastle the offer is more reduced, but I do find I can enjoy it _all_.

Also I'm closer to nature (where I live), I can afford a big house and I actually _know_ my neighbours.

edit: to take this further. You could live in Broom, a hamlet, which has a population of 579. Cycle or drive 10 minutes to Biggleswade station and get the 45 minute train in. In theory if you got really efficient, you could be in the heart of the City of London 1 hour door to door.

- nature looks like: https://www.alltrails.com/de/route/germany/wander-tour-harbu... - "rural" village https://www.hamburg.de/neugraben-fischbek/ (image gallery) that _actually_ is part of hamburg area, located at this nature, and - 35-42 minutes by train from that village centre (u can walk to the train station in like 10 minutes) to the middle of hamburg

...a guy I knew growing up gave me this advice "Find somewhere you want to live and figure out how to make a living there." Boring, simple, evident but it took 20 years to sink in.

Do you have time to do your job and to care for cows, horses and chicken? And also work in the garden?

Every small farmer I know has at least one member of the family working at least one regular job, usually for benefits, to make ends meet.

However, "leave society behind" no longer involves locality. If you come out to the sticks and still obsessively doomscroll the news, you will not reduce your stress much. Conversely, if you resolutely ignore the distressing noise around you, you might find contentment in your city, still.

When we had kids, I knew we would have to move despite loving the city. My personal favorite was Philly. Walkable and no need for a car. Any type of food was usually an easy walk away. Close second was SF for the nightlife and ability to choose your weather by getting in the car for an hour or two.

I feel in the end it was a fantastic move. We sold our row house in philly and purchased a working ranch, sent our kids to a private school, and converted a pasture into an athletic field with the proceeds.

The downside if there is one is that we would be hard pressed to replicate what we have now and my wife has had to turn opportunities down in southern California as the equivalent to what we have now would be a home for at least 10 million.

I guess there might be a political downside in that I am a left of center and most people in my community are right of center. However, noone has been isolating. There are some blow hards, but fir the most part people dont ask me about my politics and I dont ask about theirs and we can get along fine.

I think it helps that I am a youth coach with a nice personal field and I coach 50 percent of the girls in our community in some capacity.

Feel free to ask me questions.

Got out just in time. It's really gone downhill in the past few years.

Short version: now we are living in Berlin again ;)

Long version: we loved and enjoyed the proximity to nature, the mountains,the quiet and small world in a village... But in the end that was the problem as well - small villages are often conservative, so we were the ones with the funny cloth, totally different worldviews and we felt most of the time out of place. It was hard to find like minded friends there (though I know, it is very important to be in touch with all kind of views, ideas and ways of live, and I enjoy that as well, but one also needs some friends around whom surf the same wave) and there is simply a lot less to do than in s city - cultural events, night live, events, etc. pp. Is all far away. While you can do a lot of outdoor sports and nature relayed things, a lot of social interaction based events are missing. For us to much... We decided to move back to the city, with all the wonderful bussing and hustling - and got as a camper van, which we know use some month of the year, to fill up out longing for remote and quiet places in nature.

PS: maybe the 1.5 years weren't enough to get integrated into a village social group, so maybe it changes after a longer stay

A bit like trying to blend into japan - you will ALWAYS be the gaijin no matter how perfect you speak the language of follow the traditions.

What others said about rural being just as cynicism-inducing is very true, first off. If you're genuinely reclusive you'll be fine but if you're social by nature and are seeking a better type of people, you'll be disappointed.

But is it better? Oh hells yah. A flock of Cedar Waxwings came through our yard last week, they were there for about half an hour picking over our trees (end of winter here) and a couple were right outside my window for a few.

The above will never happen to you in a city, so if that's the sort of thing that fuels you, you want to be here. If you want to get out of your car at night and hear a stillness you didn't realize existed, and hear packs of coyotes other nights and learn to really hate deer because they're actually not that cute and they eat all your nice plants...

It's great man. But it's very much what you make it, and you will largely make it that way alone. I scored the jackpot and got a wife who grew up out here so I had a partner at home from day one - makes a big difference.

I live in south jersey, close to Philly. I am 20 minutes from bars and theaters and city life, but the cost of living is considerably lower. (ok, jersey taxes sucks)

Delaware is similar. There are many rural settings near Wilmington, and not too too far from Philly either.

Where I am is more like suburbia, but my daughter goes horseback riding 10 minutes from our house on a legit farm land.

We have dreamed of buying a farm near there, and it feels like cheating to live in a farm so close to city living.

Our house is more secluded than most, and I love the feeling of being isolated and not having to worry about my noise bothering the neighbors, and vice versa.

And it is clean. Dang. Most city's are filthy. I have to wash my shoes every time I go to NYC.

Our small town has a local board game store, and local breweries, and smaller stores. I have gotten to know the people there, and made friends, and I am truly part of the community. It takes actual effort to get out when you remote, and some of the people I know here are totally recluse. If you are an introvert, I would really consider the toll in human connection as a real possibility.

Smaller communities have problems too. And lots of "no one is doing anything about it" happens as well.

NYC (and Manhattan in particular) is filthy even by big city standards.

Then I tried a "big city" when I was studying, I could go out to the shops and never see anyone I know - or even see the same person twice. Everything was too noisy and people walked too fast.

Now I live somewhere in between. A city big enough to have services so I don't need to go 50-100km away just for basic things, but also small enough to have a "community" - but not so small that everyone knows everyone.

Now that COVID normalised remote work, I'm considering sizing down one more step, just to get a bigger home and maybe a yard for the same amount of money I'm paying now.

Also: not all countries are "greedy" to the extent that the US is. Yes, everyone loves to make money, but there are countries where your identity doesn't equal your profession.

You might be heavily biased due to the news & social media you take in. What remains of this if you remove all ideas about "society" that came to you in digital form? Do the people around you really all "hate each other"? Does "nothing works", really? Do important things get ignored in your physical vicinity? And if not, why could you not do anything about it?

I am saying this because a lot of (younger) people don't realise most salient news is negative news (climate distaster, war, crime etc). Well maybe they do realise this but still latently let it dictate their whole world view even though it is in complete disregard to their local world which have none or little of those problems (war, direct climate issues, hard visible racism, etc etc) .

If you just look around yourself, both in the physical world and in time (ie. in your life up to now), how much is completely, really, "fucked-up", anyway? Sure some distasters happen (relatives, friend or pets that die etc), but other than that, life around me is pretty much amazing considering how your life would've looked like 100 years ago.

Still, nature is really nice of course. We originate from nature, so it soothes us naturally (well most of us). So why not do both? Stay a couple of month per year outside of bigger cities / detach from digital media. After a while you'll miss the city probably as much as you miss nature now. So mix it up a little. Variety is the spice of life.

I don't know many people actually get this, but swathes of "nature you love" might be completely different (for the worse) in like 20-30 years. This never happened before and is unthinkable/unbelievable for many people, since this "has been for ages".

Like, I don't hate people. I'd love to have my children have some nature to experience as I had. But some %share of the population is actively destroying this possiblity and has been for decades, how can one NOT be angry about this?

We should collectively resolve the glaring problems of our societies/systems, not trying to escape the bad vibes stemming from that!

1. I got fresh cow's milk every day 2. I lived in a farm house next to a lake with a beautiful community of Mayans and ex pats 3. I woke up every day at 6 am to work out 4. I finished my work earlier because i was so happy 5. I worked on complex tasks, and pair programmed, with no issues

Now tell me why it makes sense to make everyone come back.

No you don't.

The grass is always greener.

I found rural life alienating. Any semblance of intellectual life revolved around the community church and religion. Being in nature and out of the city was nice, and having lots of living space was very nice. But I had little in common with my neighbors and, frankly, found it more difficult to get away from the bullshit of modern life. Every conversation that wasn't about petty church politics/gossip was about actual politics. Rural America has internet access; without bars and gyms and other third places, lots of adults default to doom scrolling and binging politics infotainment TV.

IME, a good middle ground is to move to the outskirts of a smaller town with some sort of draw, such as a sizable college or substantial outdoor recreation (eg ski hills and the like) or regional hospital. Life is slower, community is more tight-knit, but there's enough going on and enough transience that you don't get the pathological downside of slower life: stagnation and passive aggressive group dynamics. The northeast is great for this sort of thing; places like Plymouth, NH are rural but also have life.

Another consideration, if you have children, is that by default mobility depends on access to a car. Your children can have independence in rural areas, but it's far harder. And if you don't facilitate it, their social lives will be dominated by being online far more than it would've been in the city.

Childhood independence in rural areas is possible, but you have to be more intentional about it. There are no busses or subways. This is another benefit of living close to a smaller town center: if you buy the right place, your kids can bike into town and meet friends.

Things can be different in Europe to the US but this is still key. If you move to a low cost of living, relatively anonymous town then things are going to be pretty average. If you’re an educated, intellectual engineer than can be kinda stifling. You need people you can relate to, which basically puts you back in MCOL/HCOL.

I now live in West Sussex (1 1/2 hours from London), surrounded by fields, I walk my dog in nature every morning, I see a kingfisher once or twice a week, I chop wood for exercise, go on hikes with my wife and sometimes oil paint outside.

I work completely remotely as a dev, work 4 days a week and we're about to have a baby. I've also heavily cut down on Twitter, I rarely have any meetings, my life is as simple as I want it to be and I couldd't be happier.

In the modern world, the news, internet, social media and politics are everywhere, and everyone is plugged into them 24/7. You can’t escape them by relocating to the countryside. They have internet and cell phones there too. You might be able to escape them by leaving the country. You can definitely escape them by choosing to disengage, which you can even do in midtown Manhattan.

The city is a stressful and fast paced place where you compete for resources with lots of highly paid people. It means you need to be running on the treadmill pretty fast in order to not fall off. Outside the city that competition still exists, but the pace is much slower and as a tech worker or former tech worker, you might be so ahead in the race that you forget you are in it. Other people won’t forget.

And there still a need to present the right politics and viewpoints in rural areas, they just might be a different set than you are used to.

That was in 2013 and that rural place was my hometown I left when I was 15 thinking I never got back.

Well, I lasted a year and then moved to nearby city of 500k. I still like to visit and do work in my vineyards, but I also found what I run away from when I was teenager: the community there is not only close knit, but also close minded and it was impossible to fit in.

We have the same problems here with less job opportunities and fewer online services. Maintenance of things is underfunded so I'm not sure the everything sucks would be solved tbh

Might just be my area but people seem a lot more "us vs them" than I've seen from city folk, probably through lack of exposure, people here still casually use all the slurs that the internet got rid of. Might be a bit of a culture shock if you're not used to it.

Everyone still hates each other, but for different reasons. Best believe any gossip spreads like wildfire too.

Having said that there are good things too! The walks in greenery here are endless. I could set off now and still be on the same trail tomorrow, fields and woods and stuff to explore all the way on both sides.

Spent 12 years in “the City,” in Charleston, SC to be exact. Watched it go from “hidden gem” to “how much more Carpetbagger can we take.” Mixed blessing there, sold our meager home for a lot more than it should have been worth and moved to the mountains. No more getting cut off every other stop light. No more pistols brandished in traffic. No more “oh wow our across-the-creek neighbor had a home invasion.” All in all, seems with a certain level of density people just lose their mind and sense of decency. All those whacky stories you’d hear growing up about senselessness on the streets of a true city like LA or New York.

It may sound stupid in hindsight, but I grew up in a small coastal town of about 10,000 and growing up going to college and then a city for work was “the path” - it never occurred to me that maybe not everyone is built for a city, big or small. I’m not all that interested in the nightlife beyond the couple years I spent going out as a young adult. There really isn’t anything interesting about that $20 cheeseburger with an “aioli” on it. I’ve seen the couple of bands live that I wanted to.

At a certain point I’m just paying too much money to live in a place that makes me mentally ill to be in. With remote becoming no longer a weird exception - take advantage if you can.

Sure, the nearest fuel station is 7 miles away, nearest food likewise, and nearest grocery 17 mi in either direction. We have to maintain the woods and fields, and there are birds of prey, coyotes and bear in the area.

I wouldn't trade it for anything though. While I like urbanism, I think the US is forever doomed to do urbanism incorrectly, and we're too fundamentally screwed up in what we prioritize compared to other global cities.

Edit: Something interesting that I found along the way is that I do like small towns and I do like the city. I found that when I start to notice that feeling of "it's all too much" that I need to go do something physical instead of sitting at a computer or scrolling on my phone. So maybe that's go wash the dishes, or maybe that's go for a walk or bike ride, the key being that I need to balance my time between the digital world and physical world as much as possible to feel good about myself.

I made it barely over the 1 year mark until I HAD TO do a U-turn and now live in one of the biggest and most diverse cities in germany (hamburg) with an office job again, this time with a hybrid model. I could not stand having to drive with my car everywhere, having nothing interesting besides the same nature spots around me that is worth visiting after a few months, having nothing to actually meet people and socially connect besides a handful of neighbors, and always being on the verge of getting "left behind" in a world than changes faster than ever.

I guess the only people that can be happy in such a small village setting is when one grew up with that lifestyle and is used to it, or went through burnout and needs stuff to be quiet to be able to function, or already is financially so well off that the concept of "having to work in the future" doesn't make sense anymore.

Also its not only about me: my wife and both small children started lagging behind in development (hard to measure) in the village year, while all bounced back or "bloom into living life" and making leaps forward only weeks into relocation into a vibrant big city.

EDIT: maybe I would simply ask you to imaging your life situation right now, and remove all possibilities that stuff can substantially improve in your future, in exchange for being able to look at more trees outside of your window.

Sometimes I think I would like the amenities of a major city more close at hand, but I don't think I could deal with the rest of it.

I currently live in a quiet neighborhood where I can walk the dogs a couple blocks and see a lake and a nice-sized field (and sometimes see deer or coyotes in the prairie just beyond my back yard), or drive 10 minutes and go to my choice of several parks and trails through nature. And yet I'm also only a 7 minute drive away from a Best Buy, Target, Home Depot, and about 30 restaurants. And there's a decent number of people around that share my interests in board games and game design that I can meet up with on a semi-regular basis without driving more than 30-40 minutes. And that's pretty good for my needs.

That being said, I do sometimes want something a bit quieter (not much, just a little). In particular I'd love to live closer to a major body of water, like the Great Lakes or possibly a beach. I would love to spend some time on a boat, maybe learn the basics of sailing. I've eyed some smaller cities (but still of some size, like 10k people) as possible places to move to eventually. I don't think I could do much smaller than that. My current city is 75k people.

Sometimes I fantasize that I can live on a boat, and mostly satisfy that by watching sailing Youtube channels. I don't think I could manage it very well in actuality (and almost certainly not my wife or dogs, although she does want to try RV life at some point), but it's a nice fantasy.

I also grew up in a smaller city for the first 22 years of my life, but that was still 40k+ people when I was born (and has since grown to 78k itself).

In life you'll always have to deal with good and bad. You'll meet all kinds of different people. With some you'll click and with some you'll not.

It looks like you're struggling (most of us have been there). As a first step I would remove 'be relatively updated about world events'. It's good to stay informed but try to limit the time you spend on news. As you said it yourself, there's almost nothing you can do about it. Focus on your locality, on your spouse, kids, family and immediate neighbours.

I moved from a large obnoxious city to a smaller one (65k) and I'm pretty happy with the tradeoffs. It's small enough that walking on foot is an option, it's easier to meet people since nobody is very far away, but we have everything - there's a theater, cinemas, plenty of shops, restaurants, public transport etc. I think overall even smaller cities than this are more viable these days. A big barrier of having problems getting things is no longer a big deal, you can get everything online.

A coworker lives on several acres in rural Georgia. It sounds like it has all of the ups and downs that you might imagine: his house is absolutely gorgeous, and he got to design and have it built himself. he uses a chainsaw several times per year, and now has strong opinions about chainsaw maintenance. But he hast to hire a tutor for his kids, because the local school is some combination of too far away and not good enough for the future he wants for them. Getting them socialized is an effortful thing. I haven’t heard him talk about good friends in the area, though there have been some colorful characters.

All these idyllic places seems to exist only on Hallmark channel.

You need to be able to get lost in a forest on a hike, dive into water and see fish, climb a mountain and see snow. These places exist, and they're not always expensive. Ready access to genuine nature improves city life immensely.

I would pursue addressing feelings of depression directly before attempting to radically change your life in the hope of fixing things indirectly.

Pluses: quiet; know my neighbours (not everyone will consider that a plus); most walks with the dog take me into real country (depends on the direction we take); best Internet of any of my colleagues during video calls (newer infrastructure, I guess); driving is far less stressful (I WFH, so I don’t drive as much, either); chatting with cashiers, bank tellers, pharmacists, etc., and no one is fussed; people just aren’t as fussed and impatient.

Cons: grocery store doesn’t always get the specials (they are advertised, they just don’t get any); hospital sorta sucks (long story); wine store doesn’t get the really good stuff (only those who understand LCBO Vintage Releases will get that).

Neutral: family is 30-40 minutes away (they were almost that anyway, mostly, but now it is a more enjoyable drive); the symphony and most theatre is much further away, but I find I feel less need for them; gas is cheaper, but I use less on the highway, but I drive less; pretty much the same level of choices for dining, except at the highest end.

Being relatively self-sufficient is its own blessing, though. Especially over the past few years it has been great to have food security and almost everything I need here or within a few miles.

Is perhaps going offline a key to a better life than moving away from the city? I'm not sure and would also be interested in stories from other HN readers.

Another thing you might consider is moving abroad. There are cities with better living quality than many car-centered US cities, e.g. cities with lots of walking and hiking opportunities, lots of cultural activity, nice outdoor cafes in Southern Europe, commuting by bike, etc.

However, I'm not sure that moving will fix your issue. You can still spend too much time on Twitter and listening to news podcasts and YouTube channels, you don't need to be in the city for that.

In fact, maybe staying in the city would be actually better for you. You can socialize, go walk around in the city, try out new restaurants, chat with all kinds of people, and realize that despite your favorite YouTuber saying society lost its ways, you can actually have normals conversations with most people.

Remember, whatever makes you miserable, in this case, you can just "stop it" a la Bob Newhart.

What’s less great is that the things that are broken and stupid aren’t getting fixed. There will be no public transport (ever), bike and pedestrian lanes will not happen, the public schools outside of select enclaves will keep failing, short-term rentals will keep driving out the middle class, and economies based on tourism will race to the bottom.

In short, your desire to upgrade a place to match its potential will conflict with the desires of others, many of whom just want the government to stop taxing and regulating them and whose entire worldview can seem framed by the price of gas.

It's around 30 minutes away from my old apartment in Denmark's 2nd biggest town and around 15 minutes from my parents.

I live there with my girlfriend and our 1 year old son. We are very happy with it, but it comes with some downsides.

It's not really cheaper to live here. Our rent is much lower, but we need two cars. The house is much bigger than an apartment that would have fit us, so heating and electricity is much more expensive. There is no district heating, so we have a furnace that we need to feed wood pellets, which is a major pain. We're considering earth heating or something similar, again, additional expenses.

I bought a tractor and a mini loader which is use every week, for various maintenance jobs on the house and garden. This is also a significant extra cost, but it would really not be comfortable without it.

We wanted too have animals but we abandoned the idea due to how much work there is just maintaining the buildings and garden + the kid :-)

We love the summers where we get to hang around in our outside areas, but the winters (nov-march) can hard. You look outside the window and it's all just completely dark.

I'm planning on buying a small field and trying to grow some vegetables. We already have an area in the garden, but I want to experiment with actual farming with my tractor :) Considering some grains so I can make flour and beer :)

I learned so much about electricity, building stuff, gardening etc. which makes every day exciting. Maybe it will eventually not be fun anymore, but we're having a good time for now.

I miss the restaurants and take-away from the city, but that's it. We have the friendliest neighbours, although we do not hang out with them, but they are always very nice if you meet them on our small road or ask them for a favour.

I've lived in a really small village in my youth. And though I loved the outdoors where we live - we had a huge garden - the village was backwards as hell and we were the eternal outsiders. I hated it and everyone in it.

Even here, I miss the diversity, tolerance and awareness that people in the city seem to have. It is much easier to find communities where you feel at home in the city.

Of course it depends a lot on where you are, but an overly romantic view of rural community could be a costly and painful mistake. I can take many years before you are accepted, if at all, and even then you may doubt whether you really want to belong.

I'd seriously consider it, if I didn't have my own family, but if I didn't have my own family I would be possibly digital nomad travelling across Asia/South America...

1. https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley

2. https://www.kausaycommunity.com/

I grew up in a rural town and was ready to leave by the time I was 18. Lived in cities for 10 years and loved it. Urban and rural are very different and each have their pros and cons. I think it's basically a personality thing for which you'll prefer, and of course, each city/town has its own unique benefits and problems. Different strokes for different folks.

Just avoid the suburbs!

It sounds like you simply don't want to be in an urban area, and that's ok. If you're remote and you don't own a house, once your lease is up try moving to a smaller town, say one with a college in it. A place like Ann Arbor, Asheville, etc. If that's still too "modern society", then maybe look at renting a place that's even more rural. Once you find a place you like, then look at buying a place there or somewhere else that's very similar.

As Steven Pinker notes in his brilliant “Enlightenment Now”, there is nothing natural about a farm. It is basically a factory that subjugates the local ecology to produce monoculture crops so delicate that you have to domesticate humans to take care of them. If you want to live in nature and get away from command and control culture, you may want to skip the farm or livestock ranch and experience nature more directly as forests, meadows etc.

Is it hunter/gather subsistence living in a quasit hut or out of a cave no, but I think that would be realistically too far a leap for people in the tech community.

You're going to see some of this anywhere, maybe in different forms.

I don't live in a big city. I like it more than I imagine living in a big city. Basically everyone I know who does, or has, lived in big cities complains about crime, lack of service, noise, etc.

When the pandemic started and it was possible to work from home, even more people moved out.

There are some folks who lived in great cities such as London or Berlin which settled in my country because they thought it's amongst the rare places where authentic country life can be experienced.

> Ask HN: Are you a remote worker that escaped to the countryside? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17522160

Art engages and soothes the soul. Take in a play, a classical music concert, some comedy. Take up an instrument. Read books not Tweets and certainly not the news.

I find modern society to be substantially better than, say, even a couple hundred years ago when electricity and indoor plumbing was barely making the rounds. Our lives are considerably easier than those of our ancestors because of modern conveniences. I think it's incredible that we can communicate instantly with almost anyone on the planet.

If you think everyone hates each other, I'd suggest that you do either live in a big city where people are more prone to be absorbed in 'the busy', or get a lot of your interaction from the net and news, where yes, the algorithms and ad dollars come from negativity. That's just not how most of the world works, however. I can go to my nearest small town and everyone is being civil and I feel free to strike up a conversation with perfect strangers at a restaurant or bar and learn a new perspective or story. Most people don't "vibe high" as it were, and so if you think you do or can, you have the opportunity to spread that to other people through your interactions.

Working towards a practice of gratitude for what IS will expand your capacity to see the world in a favorable light, and will not only help you but help everyone. Nothing outside of you has the capacity to 'depress' you or make you feel anything else for that matter. Your feelings and attitude come from within. Don't let someone tell you otherwise: it's YOUR power and your responsibility.

That said, I live in a small, quiet, sparse town on some acreage with fantastic well water. My wife raises animals and she grows a lot of our food. It was one of the reasons I married her. Doing the farm thing isn't really for me (yet?) because I love tech so much, but it is peaceful out here and we're a short trip to some nearby decent sized cities if we want entertainment and such. I cannot imagine going back to live in the city again, it's just too stressful. The benefits of living closer to the land are hard to verbalize, but intuitively seem to feel good.

If you want to be self-sufficient, that's a whole other matter. It's very difficult to do in the modern age with the giant conglomerates consolidating resources. But I have hope that more and more will see the need and benefits. Start small and watch videos and read things concerning 'regenerative agriculture', 'sustainable agriculture', and 'homesteading'. You'll likely be able to make friends who want the same things as you, even if you're in a sparsely populated place. You might be surprised how many people are giving it a go. It's worth a shot.

Oh, and get a wife/husband if you don't have one already.

It is quite impossible for us today to have any idea of how life was a hundred years ago, because there are many other factors than technological comforts that influence quality of life. History does not give much of a clue either, since it is a field that is always heavily propagandized by current rulers wanting to let the population know how they have saved them from the horrors of the past.

I wouldn't even trust old people too much on their accounts of life in the past. Their memories are influenced and sometimes replaced by media and current "truths". A person who lived through an important happening IRL once has after that seen the media account of that happening hundreds of times throughout the decades of their life. Talking to old people or reading interviews with them, it is rare to hear them tell any deeper account of their life in the past. Sadly.

I wonder if that will happen to me also, and what would be the solution? Keeping a diary?