Thoughts on instructors demoting rank of new students?

What are your thoughts about an instructor demoting rank of a new student? I'm not going to drop any names, but I know of an instructor that demoted a new student at a gym. That new guy is a brown belt, but he couldn't hang with the purple belts, so the instructor demoted him to purple. And he said if his previous instructor has a problem with it, go to his gym and speak with him. Or leave and train somewhere else that allows a shitty brown belt to train at. What are your thoughts on this? okay or not okay?

Kinda BS imo unless the rank is completely 100 unwarranted. Firas Zahabi was talkimg bout rank on JRE. He said he promoted a guy to brown and Danaher told him dude was still purple and shouldn’t have been promoted. Zahabi said dude tapped out some black belts in some tournaments this year and was ready but went to Danahers and was getting smashed by blue and purples. If the standard is that you can’t get your rank if you can’t hang with Danahers studs then we all dint deserve our belts. Danaher himself included.,He never competed and I heard he never really rolled much coming uo. His standard is ridiculously high. Look I’m all for standards but Bjj is for everyone. Those stud purple belts will one day become OLD black Belts who can’t hang witth future purple belt killers. Should they give up their black belts?! NO. Get the fuck out of here. They have the knowledge base. Only In Bjj are you expected to fuck everybody up forever and ever. Not gonna happen.

Petty imho,
Just wait till the person is up to par for the next belt. Its a form of self flattery for the instructor.

Give it 5 years when Danaher is getting ravaged by purple belts and demote him.

But wait - Danaher is notorious for not rolling to demonstrate his own skills.

BJJ belt hierarchy is all about ego.

Other systems have a clearly defined standard for belts (learn and demo these katas, self defense flows, etc). Most BJJ doesn't have that. Promotions are purely based on the instructors standards. As a result, actual skill can vary wildly amongst people of the same belt level. Some schools give belts jitsu for attendance and have black belts at 6-7 years (looking at you, GB). Others won't give you rank without major tournament victories, and have brown's with over 12 years in. Pretty ridiculous in both ends, imo.

thats complete bullshit no one has the right to take a persons rank away but its up to them when they wana promote you

id never take a persons rank away even if a brown was getting smashed by my blues id just not promote him to black until he met requirements

Stoic1 said:

Give it 5 years when Danaher is getting ravaged by purple belts and demote him.

But wait - Danaher is notorious for not rolling to demonstrate his own skills.

BJJ belt hierarchy is all about ego.

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I dislike Danahar but he admits a child might be able to beat his ass because he's fragile and has bad fake hips and other injuries.

I'm a big fan of "its my gym and I do what I want. If you don't like it, go somewhere else". I know there are many that don't agree with me but we're not being forced to train and much less forced to train at a particular academy. You don't like buying/wearing the official Gi's or Rashguards? Go somewhere else. You don't like training Old School Self Defense curriculum? Go somewhere else. You don't like training primarily Sports Jiu Jitsu? Go somewhere else. There are those that might argue that the next nearest academy is hours away. Tough Shit. Life isn't fair. You can choose not to train or suck it up until circumstances change.
Because there is no agreed upon standard we have this much subjectivity in grading. There are levels to this. I'm a hobbyist Purple that has been training regularly for over 7 years. Eventually, I hope I make it to Black Belt (hobbyist) level. Danaher holding someone to the same standard as this competitors is ridiculous and lazy. It just sounds like he doesn't want to take the time to actually evaluate the whole person. Because I don't agree with his approach, I'd go somewhere else.
If Firas Zahabi says you're ready to be promoted, you can bet your ass that you're ready. Fuck a bunch of Danaher.

I have spoken.

Wouldn't do it, wouldn't expect it.

I offered way back when to wear a white belt when travelling and the instructor said no way that was going to happen.

I think there was a old school instructor that would move them back to white belt but with a tab in the middle of the belt (so if you were a black belt you'd have a little black tab on your belt). It applied to any martial art though. And you'd be on a accelerated program. Not sure how true it is, but that's at least a story

Belts are a measure of recognition not skill so you it's super silly to take a belt someone else gave.

Coming into a new gym and getting your ass handed to you should light a fire under your belly to make that stop. There are other factors than just getting old. You can also get complacent in that you know how your team mates roll, as dynamic as bjj is, you can fond yourself in the same patterns with certain people. A gym can have a style too where your game is great against people like you, people that learned from the same source. When you go to a new gym, they may just do things a little differently and get caught at first. After an adjustment period things should balance out. If it were my school, I'd let the new student sink or swim.

I think its completely warranted. If you want to present your team a certain way, its your right to do so. The coach said if you dont want to go to what I think your appropriate belt is, you can train somewhere else. Certain coaches are sticklers about how their team is represented when it comes to skill level. Just like a student can leave when they feel an instructor isnt up to the level they expect, a coach should be allowed to not accept a student at their belt either.

We had a guy come to Checkmat at brown belt who was in his early 30's and would get beat by blue belts every day. Someone asked our coach what he thought about that and he said he didnt care, but the guy would die with a brown belt.

nefti said:

Petty imho,
Just wait till the person is up to par for the next belt. Its a form of self flattery for the instructor.

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Exactly. If a student feels really bad and wants to demote themselves I think that’s a slightly different story. Like if they truly feel massively outclassed for their belt level to the point where it’s hurting their performance even more and over pressuring them.

But I think belts in general are less of a big deal than they need to be and instructors demoting people is lame.

djason1988 said:

Other systems have a clearly defined standard for belts (learn and demo these katas, self defense flows, etc).

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Usually yes. Bunch with associations/ federations, each have Curriculum tables for belts levels.
1. Katas
2. Blocks
3. Punches
4. Kicks
5. etc etc ect etc
And they might ask demonstrate any stuff according to level.
However if one had training in club A, under federation B and was legit graded and moved to club C that is under the same federation B, then Kyu and Dan rank remains…. next promotion depends from sensei / instructor of course.
Instructor in club C isn't allowed remove any grading but also isn't enforced to promote further to next grading.

SandisLL said:

Usually yes. Bunch with associations/ federations, each have Curriculum tables for belts levels.
1. Katas
2. Blocks
3. Punches
4. Kicks
5. etc etc ect etc
And they might ask demonstrate any stuff according to level.
However if one had training in club A, under federation B and was legit graded and moved to club C that is under the same federation B, then Kyu and Dan rank remains…. next promotion depends from sensei / instructor of course.
Instructor in club C isn't allowed remove any grading but also isn't enforced to promote further to next grading.

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An instructor can really do whatever he wants in his dojo/club/gym, but in most styles there's a more or less agreed upon standard of skill. That standard is missing in BJJ.

djason1988 said:

An instructor can really do whatever he wants in his dojo/club/gym,

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In BJJ maybe. I don't know.


In classical Japanesse arts ranking is issued till...death….
Insturctor cannot remove anything issued previously by another sensei/ shihan/ hanshi/ soke.

If you come from another style or/ and under another federation, then ….
dojo might offer what they want: tests, white belt, previous belt. For this style etc. in their organisation. Why not.

But remove issued rank in eclectic arts cannot even death.
Expel from feds, clubs etc, YES... Remove graded rank: NO. Priesthood too cannot be revoked.

You aren't belt, Art is Budo not instructor, Art is conversation with yourself and creator.

meh it s double meh.
meh from the instructor for caring so much and for the thinly veiled brag.
meh from the guy thinking that the world owes him happiness.

kenpeters8 said:

What are your thoughts about an instructor demoting rank of a new student? I'm not going to drop any names, but I know of an instructor that demoted a new student at a gym. That new guy is a brown belt, but he couldn't hang with the purple belts, so the instructor demoted him to purple. And he said if his previous instructor has a problem with it, go to his gym and speak with him. Or leave and train somewhere else that allows a shitty brown belt to train at. What are your thoughts on this? okay or not okay?

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I wouldn't do it, but each head instructor has his own requirements and expectations. I think denoting someone is just your way of asking them to leave.

Furthermore, what would you rather be: the brown belt that sucks that everyone laughs at, or the purple belt that got demoted that everyone pities?

If the standard is if you cant hang with Atos, Checkmat, Mendes Brothers, or Danaher's purple and blue killers, then most of us here should just give up our belts. Yes, each school can have their standards but its gets cliquish and hipster imo to demote someone (unless its blatantly not deserved) or not promote to black belt cause they cant tap the studs right and left. As I said, what happens when they get older with their black belts around their waist?! Demote them?! There WILL come a time when they are food for the youngsters. No doubt. Happens to everybody. By the logic of being able to hang with killers to earn your belt, that same logic dictates that you wont be able to not only earn your black belt but also KEEP it if you cant continually hang. Kano should have given up his black belt at 60 based on that logic since he was food for the young Kodokan studs. Its bullshit imo. And YES if you dont like it, leave the school, but bjj got popular cause it is now for all ages and abilities. If we kept the standards that you have to tap out Atos' purple belt killers, to earn a purple, then few people in the world would ever get past blue no matter how hard they train.

HunterAcosta said:

If the standard is if you cant hang with Atos, Checkmat, Mendes Brothers, or Danaher's purple and blue killers, then most of us here should just give up our belts. Yes, each school can have their standards but its gets cliquish and hipster imo to demote someone (unless its blatantly not deserved) or not promote to black belt cause they cant tap the studs right and left. As I said, what happens when they get older with their black belts around their waist?! Demote them?! There WILL come a time when they are food for the youngsters. No doubt. Happens to everybody. By the logic of being able to hang with killers to earn your belt, that same logic dictates that you wont be able to not only earn your black belt but also KEEP it if you cant continually hang. Kano should have given up his black belt at 60 based on that logic since he was food for the young Kodokan studs. Its bullshit imo. And YES if you dont like it, leave the school, but bjj got popular cause it is now for all ages and abilities. If we kept the standards that you have to tap out Atos' purple belt killers, to earn a purple, then few people in the world would ever get past blue no matter how hard they train.

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Good logic. Honestly I think if anyone new goes to an academy and the head coach wants to demote them and they stay, then they're fucking low self-esteem dick riders. The self respecting thing to do is just say fuck you, nobody taking away my belt, and just leave and take your business elsewhere. It's that simple.