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A Dumb TV for Consumers (ironcast.tv)
52 points by jordanbeiber on Oct 20, 2019 | hide | past | favorite | 109 comments



>We removed everything that doesn't add to a simple experience; making it ultra-slim, pure and compatible with your other gadgets.

>The menu and remote has been replaced with the Iron Cast App, where your can create profiles and settings for any mood and atmosphere. You can choose between our carefully constructed profiles or simply create your own.

These two things seem at odds, the first thing everyone does is shovel in their own app.

It's also hard to consider dumb when it requires a smartphone to even use.


> It's also hard to consider dumb when it requires a smartphone to even use.

I think that in reality you don't even need to use the app. The TV should be powered on/off by your AV receiver or Apple TV or whatnot using HDMI-CEC.


Here I am, using an old fashioned physical button.


You still do that this way, it's just that your physical button will be for the device plugged into it rather than the TV itself. Instead of turning on the TV with a physical button, you'll turn on your Chromecast, Apple TV, Roku, Blu-Ray player or whatever you have plugged in. That device will then turn on the TV using HDMI.


The way it should be. I once bought a computer monitor with capacitive "buttons." I'll never make that mistake again.


Again, this remote app only lets you control color profiles. Not sure how often you do that, but I never touch those settings after initial calibration. It's been 10 years with my current plasma.


Which would be fine, that is just not obvious in the site.

It'd also be nice if it was compatible with universal remotes.


I guess we're a specific type of user that this screen is trying to target. Myself and several people I know have been looking for something like this for years. The only consumer type products like this right now are projectors, and they certainly are not suitable everywhere. Even though the more recent developments in ultra short throw laser projectors have my interest piqued.


How do I adjust contrast or fps? The App...


I use the app for my Yamaha receiver far more than I use the remote. I'm already browsing for content to watch on my phone...

Aside from the 'is the app needed' debate, this TV is almost perfect for me. I hope there are plans for an HDR or extended gamut display too.


Yes, a monitor - a product that at 45”+ is missing for consumers and your only option is commercial screens.

Remotes - I find that I want one simple remote for 90% of the time. Having vendor specific remote apps in my phone is vastly better than having three of four separates on the rare occasions I need to tweak something. I prefer the apple remote to harmonys et al.


> vastly better

Until three years later when the app isn't being updated anymore, or the vendor removed all the functionality you used (hello Sonos)


Well, if you look at the features this specific remote app is designed to control, what you describe is "vendor out of business". Sure, that is a risk, as always.

Ideally vendors would open source code like this. Not sure why they so seldom do. Some cultural corporate thing I guess. This is something we as consumers are always vulnerable to, the more "smarts" are built in to products.


The site refers to the app as "Iron Cast App (open-source)" but I wasn't able to find the source code.


That's probably because it's a kickstarter


We need a standard.


> a monitor - a product that at 45”+ is missing for consumers and your only option is commercial screens.

Here you go: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-1080p-hdt...


Cool, but:

- only 1080p, which might still be fine

- Insignia is exclusive to the US and north American market.


>It's also hard to consider dumb when it requires a smartphone to even use.

RIGHT?!? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


I was at friend's place, and the TV was on while we were playing dominoes. The friend couldn't find tge remote and tried turning it off via the app.

He had to wait for the ad to finish to do that. SmartTVs are bullshit


Unplug the (provide an expletive of your choice here)


> The menu and remote has been replaced with the Iron Cast App (open-source),

open-source

there might be hope. It is not mentioned how the app would connect. It could be something local like bluetooth, or something more pernicious like wifi or ethernet over hdmi.

Who knows, it it might solve the problem current TVs have with spotty hardware control via "standards" like HDMI-CEC.


No remote and required installation of a mobile app to control tv? That IS dumb.


The app is there to provide obsolescence.


I have personally not used a remote for my TV in many years.

These days I use the apple tv remote and CEC let me control volume in my AV-processor as well as power on/off.

The remote for my projectors and TV’s for the last 15 years never left their packaging.


I don't think the app is required if you hook up an Apple TV or similar.


Does Apple TV control brightness and Cable TV?


I use plex, which can be hooked up to cable prividers.

But, I’m probably a target for this product as I have not had or used linear TV for 20 years.


I agree. I don't have a mobile telephone, so this television would not be an option for me.


>Welded by danish design principles.

Looked that little gem up: "Scandinavian design represents a design philosophy that's characterized by functionality, simplicity, and clean lines."

Functionality and simplicity... that's already what a weld is... it's extremely functional and simple, melted metal to join metal. Clean lines? As in a welder who can do their job? I mean... duh? Really feels like someone saying "atm machine" and trying to make it seem like they art holy than thou.

I really hope they don't understand what "iron" means. Because an iron back tv... god have mercy on your spine when carrying that shit. Tvs don't have to double as barricades in case of a shoot out with the cops at your house. Tvs don't have to be sturdy. They're not gym equipment. You put them somewhere and they stay there like a glass vase. You look at it, not fondle it. Now, if it was really a Scandinavian inspired device... made of viking axes that have tasted blood... or get enough of these and they snap together to make a long boat. That's Scandinavian. Not "simple and functional clean lines". Bauhaus pre-dates that and whatever the Japanese call their style of design pre-dates that even more. Chill, ya' ain't the first. Stop making up silly names to feel special about your snowflake selves.

No remote... that's the problem with newer tvs that it's "solving"... by making the same mistake? The fucking remotes are useless and do the "handy little mobile app" which is always trash. Tactile people. Tactile. Smooth surfaces suck when it comes to remotes.

One HDMI... and they feel high and mighty for it... fuck you and your Apple design principles. Along with anything else they stand for. I bet they'll release a tv stand that costs a grand as well.

Why? Why are people doing this? This is crazy. It's crap like this where I go "Don't fix global warming, let's burn more coal! Humans need to learn the hard way of their mistakes."

It's the morning and I already need a drink...

A true dumb tv: no boot time because all it does is take a signal and spit it out. 3 HDMI ports minimum. Blueray player, a streaming device and game console. A real fucking remote that fits in my hand comfortably and the buttons stick out of the plastic so I can feel them and never have to look down. Extra points if they make one with Cherry MX keys. That'd be cool. Don't know if it's practical, but I'd definitely give it a try. And the inputs have separate buttons. None of this cycling crap with just a single "input/source" key.


I have to say that lots of TVs are only ever hooked to one input.

Also, having more than one input means you have to provide an interface to select between sources, which in my experience leads to "grandma, find the INPUT button" "..er the SOURCE button" "It must be somewhere on the back of the TV or on the remote"


>I have to say that lots of TVs are only ever hooked to one input.

I call bullshit on that. I know most people just use 2, but plenty use 3. You're using the same argument that Apple used to kill the headphone jack, that led to other phone manufacturers to follow suit. You don't have data on it and you're working within your own bias.


How about a tv where pressing a number button takes you to that television channel no matter what state the tv is in. No switching sources or pressing exit buttons to reach the correct state. Just press a channel button and you get to tv. Just in case, god forbid, someone actually wants to use one to watch television on.

(Really iron back? Welded? That sounds incredibly heavy and just why??)


I'm thinking they really don't know what the word "iron" means. Or it's some new hipster phrase that refers to old stuff. I don't know. Because who the hell thinks a tv made of iron is necessary? The 90s called, they said you're an idiot because they tried that and are sorry for it.


Smart TV's cost a lot less than they would if Sony/Phillips/Samsung didn't resell your personal data they gather when the TV is plugged into the net.

So buy one of these good deals but don't plug it into the the net. Just get a NUC that you control and use that with one of the 3 or 4 HDMI ports you have.

You get a good deal on the TV, no one is listening to everything that's said in your living room and with a long range (eg Marathon) mouse you have all the remote control you need.


Nice to see someone try to solve this problem!

Wishes: HDR.

A much larger size, like 85” class or whatever size is currently practical to manufacture.

An open standard for the app/control protocol in case the company goes under.


Agree. I was just happy to finally see someone trying to create a simple screen, without the smart crap.

Perhaps doing a cheaper entry screen first is a resonable start, but I’d also like to see something bigger.


They say the best speakers are the ones you add but it doesn’t have ARC or optical... seems like this is only good for people with AV receivers. But those people obviously don’t prioritize simplicity so I don’t think this makes sense.


They seem to have listened to feedback:

- We embedded the Iron Cast Hub inside the TV, giving the Iron Cast TV 3 HDMI ports.

- We updated the specs to reflect HDR, VESA and Embedded Wall Mount.

- We changed the audio from analog to digital in both TV and Soundbar.

- Finally, the biggest change, we added our Iron Cast Orb, for our dear fans of analog control.

I might have to get one just to support this venture.


I was certain this was a parody site, but after reading the hilarious comments on HN I am no longer confident.


I'm really hoping so. Maybe it's an accidental early April fool's joke. Testing the site and someone posted it without thinking? If not, bring on global warming, we humans are never going to learn about useful technology. Just speed it up and let's get it over with.

Normally when you strip things away, you make things cheaper than the competition... not hike the price up by an extra $150 from the leading brand name.

If this tv was dirt cheap, I'd have no issues with it. It makes sense. As is... no and their air of superiority they have is the real thing everyone is angry about.


I would absolutely pay extra for a television without an onboard camera and stealth network connection, yes. It's sad that we should expect to pay extra for our televisions not to spy on us, but here we are.

We bought one of the last "non-smart" TVs available in the store just a few years ago and one of my great (arguably ridiculous) regrets is that when we went on the road this last time, we sold our place furnished, giving up that beautiful, giant, "dumb" TV to buyers who I'm sure don't appreciate its value.


I agree only if you're not buying a streaming device that has a built in mic that tracks and sends your info anyways.

Look, I'm against the tracking culture we're in. I refuse to get IoT anything and I don't do the whole home automation crap. But I find it dumb when someone says "I don't want a TV that has a mic in it and sends my data... Alexa, turn on my Apple TV and stream Stranger Things from Netflix."

Seriously... A lot of the same people have an Alexa/Google home/whatever. IoT devices throughout their home. Streaming boxes that only use voice commands. Yet they complain about smart tvs sending their data... Almost as bad as making a movie about aliens that die from touching water and they decide to invade a planet that's 70% covered in water and regularly has water fall from the sky.


This is such a fatalistic and sad attitude...”Why should I wear clothes anywhere if my doctor sees me naked?”

Apple, Google, and Amazon encrypt their data in transit, I have an ongoing customer relationship with them and I keep abreast of their privacy policies. I’m not happy, but I generally know what they’re doing with my data.

Not so with my flippin’ toaster or my computer monitor. And TV manufacturers have a very bad reputation when it comes to shipping everything they can get unencrypted back to home base.


They only reason they encrypt the data is so they can be the first ones to resell the data. They dont want someone to play interference and get the data for free. It's not for "the customer's safety". I dont care about the encryption, I dont want them collecting the data in the first place.


But the television’s unencrypted collection is fine?


At a certain point, it doesn't matter in a practical aspect. It's like trying to figure out who gave you syphilis. You already got it. You need to deal with that first before caring about the "from who". Once the encrypted data is sold off, it's passed around more than a cheap hooker with VD.

Encryption is just the sedative they give you before they do execution by lethal injection. There should be no data collection, by anyone. Don't pretend that "Oh, we encrypt your data that we take from you, for your benefit. Because we care."

They all need to stop collecting data and selling it off. FAANG and more. All of them. I'm fine with collecting anonymous view count/length of programs. That technically can benefit the consumer since it helps justify producers on what shows/movies to fund. Beyond that, there's no reason a single bit of voice data or transcript should go over the internet. No searches or anything IDing at all. No matter how secret squirrel they go about it.


This is where you are kind of off - as a consumer all you can buy today is smart TV’s. Smarts that is there to track your viewing habits and besides that gives you bloated firmwares with buggy apps and crap you’ll never use.

The only alternatives to this would be commercial screens, and they cost a tonne! For some reason, selling a non-smart TV is more expense... so - somewhere in all that smarts, you’re the product, I guess.


How is this better than any TV with Chromecast or Apple TV or whatever? What's the giant metal rectangle underneath for?

What's the point, besides hipsterism?


As someone who would buy this TV: the point is that it's not a TV, it's just a display.

I have external speakers, I never use the speakers in my TV. I have a streaming device, I never use the streaming features built into my TV. My streaming devices have their own remote controllers which interact with the TV using HDMI-CEC, I don't use my TV's remote controller.

All the "features" built into my TV are obstacles that I'm happy to pay to have removed. Due to the speakers being built in, the TV likes to randomly switch to those instead of my external ones. The streaming apps lead to the TV having an entire operating system of its own which causes it to take longer to power on, longer for me to get to the things I want and more complex to interact with and configure.

I essentially just want a really big PC monitor. Just give me something that takes a digital signal in and beams corresponding coloured lights into my eyeballs.


Then get a Vizio.

My P series can be run: with remote, with app, or via the tablet it came with (also app).

It’s a barebones glorified monitor, but it works great for streaming.


Vizio isn't sold in the region of the world I live in and a quick Google tells me it still has nonsense I don't want built-in, at least the version they're advertising on their website.


Sadly they keep adding more "smarts" to the P-series. It now does the same creepy content tracking as other TVs, required a new remote, settings no longer save, and instead of starting into Chromecast, it goes to their ad-ladden interface.


I have had multiple people reach out to me because their TV crashed or had weird bugs. The software is going to get obsolete in 2-3 years. There are privacy issues and the remotes are packed with bullshit. There are filters enabled by default that makes watching movies actually worse. I would buy a TV with no software, a good panel and a basic remote in a heartbeat. Sadly, this is not the one.


No “smart”, no built-in speaker, no unnecessary ports.

This TV caters to someone who has an apple tv, some gaming consoles etc hooked up to an AVP/AV-receiver.

It’s a user that have no proper TV alternatives, besides projectors, these days. Other than reeeally expensive commercial screens.


Isn't an app that requires my "smart"phone smarter than it would be with a silly little remote?

Ironically smarter => stupider


Exactly. Smarter by not doing things I don’t want it to do.

Having remote functionality in an app is way better than an additional remote that will be lost as it is so rarely used.

I have my apple remote, don’t want nothing else.


I like the idea, but I don't think there's any cost savings here compared to a smart TV due to the lower volume and a relatively low incremental cost of adding in "smart" hardware and ports and speakers to every tv.

It's tough to say without knowing the exact panel, but looking at the specs (55", 4k, TFT) something comparable would be around $300-400.


Adding “smart” hardware & software into a TV is negative incremental cost, because they make a profit selling your viewing information.

Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this.


> Source: I designed a product that helped networks package up and sell ad space based on this data. I am so not proud of this.

I wonder how many people have knowledge of shady crap like this but don't speak out because of shame or fear.


They track your viewing information from an hdmi source? I would hope most budget tvs decoding and analyzing the video to determine whats playing.


Yes, they can. The most pernicious version literally sends compressed screenshots to their data-harvesting services. Compression can be pretty aggressive, since they only really want to figure out what you’re watching, and they have a full database. This process is essentially a hash-table of screen content; they can use compression on screenshots because that hardware codec is heavily optimized and quite cheap (witness mobile streaming video usage).

I have no idea which vendors/models currently do this, but several have been caught doing it in the wild; it’s not just theoretical. Things like pi-holes and avoiding ever ‘activating’ your smart tv can help stop it, but if you want to use the built-in Netflix (etc) app, or look for firmware updates, or use a built in Roku or similar, then you’re usually either doing something complicated (routing rules, pi-hole, etc) or giving in to your tv collecting data on you.


It would make a lot more sense to send the has database to the device.

If I wanted to block the TV from connecting I'd blacklist the Mac address on my router, not pihole, and just unlock it to update. If they stored all my screenshots or hashes forever then I'd lose.


The reason I'd be interested in something like this has nothing to do with the cost.

Even though the "smart" part is obsolete, and it's entirely used with an external AppleTV/Roku/whatever, because of the "smart" crap, it takes longer to turn on than it takes my computer to boot. They didn't bother to make it compatible with universal remotes, because those wouldn't have access to the "smart" features, so you have to suffer through their incredibly crappy proprietary remote to select between inputs. The "smart" features track you and invade your privacy.

I'm definitely willing to pay a premium for a well-made TV without "smart" crap. (But isn't that just a monitor?)


Yeah, it’s a monitor, and that’s what I want as well. There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens, and they have even less features but cost at least twice as much as the suggested price of the ironcast.

I still use my old LG dumb plasma, and there exists nothing like it on the market anymore, in terms of price/features (where no “smart” is a big feature for me).


>> There are no monitors in the 50+ range though, unless you go for commercial screens

4k TVs look nice and are cheaper than monitors of similar width.


By “monitor” I mean a screen without a tuner or other features. The panels are pretty much the same in a commercial display screen/monitor as in a TV screen.


Neat but I think they went too minimal and a little too modern. More HDMI and no heavy metal back and I'd be interested. I know that creates an input switching problem but if they can make an auto switching HDMI hub, they could put it in the TV. (I've had mixed results here though.)


I guess that’s why the have the hdmi hub as some might want more ports.

I only use the one hdmi with ARC, and have no need for more as I have my additional ports in my AVP.


I only ever use one input. I love the idea of this TV.


If it's not less expensive than a smart TV, I'll continue buying smart TVs and just not configuring them. A smart TV makes a perfectly good dumb one. Just plug my Roku into the HDMI port. Newer Rokus come with tv power/volume buttons, so I don't touch the TV remote again.


This was my position, but now I like having a TCL Roku TV. The HDMI inputs are channels on the app screen, but all my tv settings are in the roku interface. It eliminates having that additional layer of settings between the two devices like frame rate and passthrough/bitstream audio. It eliminates having two user interface layers (the tv and the box) to change settings on. I have way more sound problems passing arc from a streaming box to a soundbar, through a tv intermediate, than I do from a smart tv to a soundbar. (FireCube+Vizio M Series is a disaster. The audio cuts out every 3rd time alexa triggers or you pause.) I can still have an apple tv and fire stick plugged in, but TCL and Roku have done a great job of treating the tvs as first class Roku citizens. It's nothing like Android and the OEM getting in the way of updates. They also arent underpowering the internal roku, its an ultra not a budget roku.


I still don't like Smart TVs and it's not because it has a built-in Roku or whatever. We purchased a Roku TV that I really liked initially, however over the past couple of months I've noticed that the volume takes forever to change. Like it lags a couple of seconds after I've last pressed the button and sometimes I have to compensate because I've over corrected. sigh In the past week I've noticed that I can't fast-forward through Netflix or YouTube videos any more. I hold down the button and the light flashes on the the TV but nothing happens.

Ultimately, I want a dumb TV that does nothing but turn on and adjust the volume. This TV looks pretty good for me but I think it might be a bit too simple. I don't really want to hang it on the wall and it would be nice to have speakers built-in, at least so I can listen to videos before I splurge on an external speaker box.


Is there a substantive difference between something like the cheapo TCL with integrated Roku and a dumb / unconfigured smart TV with an external Roku?

Genuine question—I mean, is TCL+Roku likely to share different telemetry due to manufacturer requirements or pricing constraints?


It's probably fine, but then you have to trust both TCL and Roku. I'd rather just trust Roku. And not just for privacy, but for timely software updates, spare remotes, etc.


How is it a dumb tv when it requires a App to function?


It's dumb as in no "smart" tracking features or apps built in. It's essentially a "monitor" or "just a screen".


Then why does it need an app?


The app is there so you won’t need an additional remote you’ll never use. It’s used for color calibration, that’s it. How often do you calibrate your display?


except for the trackers embedded in the app


it says "open-source"


I see so many big, cheap smart TVs on the market, and I feel like there should be some way to lobotomize the smart features away. Maybe there is some underground community of smart TV hackers that has just eluded my web searches.


This doesn't seem like a "dumb tv", but instead the next level of "smart tv" - needs an app and other bs- and then only has ONE video input.

How is any of this a good thing?


I don’t know about needed a phone app. Really, what we cable cutters really need is just a large computer monitor with HDMI and USB-C interfaces. The plug in a Fire, Apple TV, etc.


They could be just giving you a way into settings that HDMI-CEC doesn't define (does it?)


I am very happy with my media-dedicated computer and my black-and-white Videosphere TV [jacked into the free digital signal channels with remote control].

I like to think myself unique, even if I'm not to a degree of a few thousand or so.

When I get a smartphone, I won't be using it to tune into The Late Night Show.


Having to use my distracting phone (and make sure it is charged) just to change channels is weak.


No channels, only color profiles and brightness. There’s no tuner or apps in the TV which is why it’s “dumb”. It’s a monitor basically. You hook up your AV-processor to it and use an apple tv remote or harmony or whatever.

It’s what I do, and why I’ll consider buying this as my 11 year old “dumb” plasma is starting to experience intermittent issues.


Eliminate all the bells and whistles and then pay extra to put them back in.


Don't forget it costs extra to have those bells and whistles removed. Looking at a samsung 55" 4k with hdr normal tv at $429 right now, that I can pick up at a local store right now.

Yet they want $599 for a kickstarter tv.


> samsung 55" 4k with hdr normal tv at $429

Link please?


Drive to your local Walmart.


I looked at Walmart's website and didn't see it.


Looked at my local best buy's ads on the site.


I looked at Best Buy's website and didn't see it.


Isn’t it a great idea!

I use my hdmi switch in my AVP, so why would I want a bunch of unused ports?

I use my powered monitors for audio, why would I want crappy built-in speakers?

I absolutely do not want crappy “smart” functions in my screens firmware that already have superior apple-tv counterparts.

Etc.

Smart tv’s are cheaper for a reason. In short - I just want a big monitor. Where can I get a 50”+ monitor for at least a reasonable price?


This is the opposite of a dumb tv.

A dumb tv has a remote and no app.

This TV has no remote but has an app.


It is not a "smart tv", it has no built in tracking features or apps, as pretty much all other TV's comes bundled with. The remote app is used to control color profiles and brightness (something one rarely do, after initial calibration), and there is nothing else to actually control as it is indeed a plain old monitor.


Ok. Then why not just add a simple remote to do that. What advantage does an app have for that feature over a simple remote driven UI.


I always have two things on the table: apple remote and my phone. Should I need to calibrate i have the app handy as opposed to a long gone remote, that when I find it have no batteries.

This would be the only benefit.


Unless the app goes out of date and no longer works on current smartphones/tablets, which does happen. I'd rather have the remote; batteries are cheap.


Also, most TV remotes seem to follow a standard, and as long as I can get into the TV UI, I can change settings.

So, even if the TV remote stops working, any kind of universal remote can help.


I can only agree, and they really should add buttons to the bezel or back.

If they run a web server with an API that can be used I’m perfectly happy with that though.


Like the idea of a dumb TV without a web browser, etc. But this implementation doesn't appeal to me. Sorry.


Saying there's no remote is a marketing gimmick. There's a remote, your phone plus the app.


>The menu and remote has been replaced with the Iron Cast App

dumb indeed, the consumers that is


So, a monitor?


Brilliant. I want one.


This thing has so many bad points.

Ditch the app and have a simple remote control, one that can be replaced when it is lost. This thing will be obsolete as soon as the app is not updated. In fact, it should ship with 3 remotes.

Two HDMI inputs that are auto switching, and the TV should auto power on and off, like a monitor. One for the “sanctioned” streaming box (Apple TV, Amazon Fire), and another for Kodi based hardware.

Buttons on the side to access all functions when the remote is lost.

Might as well be 4K OLED too.




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