How to prevent long term back issues from grappling

Diogenes of Sinope

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There are quite a few people who have serious back issues due to bjj very early in life. Eddie bravo come to mind; he has had fused disks and basically can’t roll/train at all. Another poster in here made a thread talking about how they can’t train ever again and have come to terms with it. Does anyone have any advice on how to sustainably train bjj long term without dealing with severe back issues?
 
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Don't rely on guard as the base of your game. Getting stacked consistently is like bending a spring that's designed to be compressed.

Frequency and intensity are also huge considerations. The last thing a young ego is concerned with is longevity. Lots of formerly "tough* and "scrappy" dudes out there who can't function in their daily lives because acknowledging injury is a sign of weakness and recovery days are for pussies.

On a long enough timeline most any sport is a repetitive stress injury. Training around that is like popping a flat on the interstate then trying to drive it to the next exit. You *might* make it, but you're probably going to ruin the rim, ball joint, suspension, and risk crashing the car altogether because you couldn't just stop and change the tire.
 
I’ve been thinking about this myself.

Some people seem to advocate controlled environment strength training exercise such as this as being effective;



I’d imagine the twist and torque from live sparring can be stressful on the lower back in either an acute or chronic sense.

Squats and deadlifts may be effective for strengthening the lower back as long as form is perfect.
 
There are quite a few people who have serious back issues due to bjj very early in life. Eddie bravo come to mind; he has had fused disks and basically can’t roll/train at all. Another poster in here made a thread talking about how they can’t train ever again and have come to terms with it. Does anyone have any advice on how to sustainably train bjj long term without dealing with severe back issues?

The thing to keep in mind is that lots of people who are sedentary as well as people in a variety of types of jobs are at risk of vertebral disc pathology.

Tons of people who don't train at all end up with disc issues as they age.

So both undertraining and overtraining can damage the spine / joints.

The key is moderation, rest, and keeping the muscles that support the spine strong.

Posture is certainly a part of that outside of training, but we also want to condition and train opposing muscle group so that those amplified by training are staying balanced.

The key to joint health in the long term as we age is muscle health.
 
Im no expert but surely weight training- squats and deadlifts etc will keep the spine nice and strong?

I think heaps of BJJ guys just train BJJ which can put considerable strain on the lower back from some positions.

Also all of the inverted guard work I dont think is good for anyone, I've always stuck to butterfly and avoid anywhere where there is potenital for a stack pass or danger to my back.
 
I have been watching many vids on herniated discs lately and I think any talk about lifting heavy is madness, if you have disc issues. You actually need to decompress your spine
 
Ok my 2 cents.
I suffered years of lower back pain.
I blamed bjj and the guard.
But I just had tight hamstring.
As soonest I feel back getting stiff, I just stretch my hamstring.
Problem solved.
Not saying it is gonna work for everyone but give it a thought.
 
I have been watching many vids on herniated discs lately and I think any talk about lifting heavy is madness, if you have disc issues. You actually need to decompress your spine

It's not about lifting heavy, but making sure that we condition the muscle groups in the back that hold up the spine.

Keeping the paraspinal muscles conditioned and having good posture during rest and labor can improve the muscles that hold the spine up and assist with mobility and reducing disability even disc pathology is present.

If you're getting compression from overtraining in a balled up state, or hunching forward during work or at a desk, opposing muscle groups will be those involved in extending the spine to arc in the other direction which in turn is going to shift pressure on the intervertebral discs.


Obviously this is all relative and if you have disc problems talk to your Dr and PT about if/when/how to do rehab training.
 
As soonest I feel back getting stiff, I just stretch my hamstring.
Problem solved.
Not saying it is gonna work for everyone but give it a thought.


It's pretty common actually. Lack of mobility in one area is generally compensated by overmobility in another area, which leads to damage of that area. Tightness in the hips is the number one most frequent mobility issue people tend to have, which leads to spinal dislocation to compensate. And if the spine is moving instead of the ball-and-socket joints moving, then you're gonna have problems.



 
It's not about lifting heavy, but making sure that we condition the muscle groups in the back that hold up the spine.

Keeping the paraspinal muscles conditioned and having good posture during rest and labor can improve the muscles that hold the spine up and assist with mobility and reducing disability even disc pathology is present.

If you're getting compression from overtraining in a balled up state, or hunching forward during work or at a desk, opposing muscle groups will be those involved in extending the spine to arc in the other direction which in turn is going to shift pressure on the intervertebral discs.


Obviously this is all relative and if you have disc problems talk to your Dr and PT about if/when/how to do rehab training.
Yes it's a very complex topic and yes, strengthening the back is paramount. I am just very skeptical about some movements where you load your back. Seems very risky at best with disc issues.
 
Yes it's a very complex topic and yes, strengthening the back is paramount. I am just very skeptical about some movements where you load your back. Seems very risky at best with disc issues.


The stress-adaptation cycle is the basis of human conditioning. If weaknesses of the spine are an issue, that makes conditioning even more important, not less. The question is simply what level of resistance you start at.
 
It's pretty common actually. Lack of mobility in one area is generally compensated by overmobility in another area, which leads to damage of that area. Tightness in the hips is the number one most frequent mobility issue people tend to have, which leads to spinal dislocation to compensate. And if the spine is moving instead of the ball-and-socket joints moving, then you're gonna have problems.





Indeed, I have had tight hips forever and only since turning 40 has it started to create real problems. My hips are fucked but orthopedists just don't care when I tell them. Just send me off with pain killers or to PT. I am going to start PT soon - let's hope he has more empathy than orthopedists. There has to an unspoken agreement in this country's medical system to give as little info to patients as possible.
 
The stress-adaptation cycle is the basis of human conditioning. If weaknesses of the spine are an issue, that makes conditioning even more important, not less. The question is simply what level of resistance you start at.
Right but there are myriads of body weight exercises that will do that without lifting stuff, right?
 
Right but there are myriads of body weight exercises that will do that without lifting stuff, right?


There is no principled basis for pathologizing pieces of metal (though social signaling is a frequent animus); they are useful tools like any other.

It can be, for cases with extremely marginal health, that merely a movement or set of movements alone approaches the limits of what they can perform within the recovery window in their stress-adaptation capacity.

But as function improves, you want to keep building up better, which means you need ways to add resistance to movements. And one of the most simple, easy, and convenient ways to add resistance, is weight.

There is a level at which you can start; which level goes up through progressive overload; leading to one being in possession of a fitter, healthier, spryer body.
 
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Don't rely on guard as the base of your game. Getting stacked consistently is like bending a spring that's designed to be compressed.

Frequency and intensity are also huge considerations. The last thing a young ego is concerned with is longevity. Lots of formerly "tough* and "scrappy" dudes out there who can't function in their daily lives because acknowledging injury is a sign of weakness and recovery days are for pussies.

On a long enough timeline most any sport is a repetitive stress injury. Training around that is like popping a flat on the interstate then trying to drive it to the next exit. You *might* make it, but you're probably going to ruin the rim, ball joint, suspension, and risk crashing the car altogether because you couldn't just stop and change the tire.
I'm an older trainee and pretty inflexible, and have gotten my fair share of injuries, but my back has stayed pretty healthy. I do like the top game and have a sweep-heavy guard game, and the guards that I use don't rely much on flexibility - part of the advantage of starting BJJ later in life is that having an inverted guard based game was never really a reasonable option!

I will typically pull guard directly into an open guard sweeping position, kind of using it like an extended takedown. When using closed guard I typically look to sweep quickly or switch to half guard. I use classical open guard (generally looking to do old fashioned sickle sweeps and similar), and butterfly, being ready to transition into half guard when needed. I find those guards don't require youthful flexibility to work well. In particular I'm enjoying deep half these days, with strong lapel grips.

What I'm finding more and more though is that I have to choose health over the "optimal" situation. For example if I'm facing a stack pass and it's going wrong, just giving up the pass is better; tapping earlier; pulling guard in certain instances instead of fighting tooth-and-nail for the takedown if I feel it isn't safe to do so (larger/more athletic guy or someone who uses takedowns I feel aren't safe for me). I think longevity is worth more.
 
What I'm finding more and more though is that I have to choose health over the "optimal" situation.

It's like looking into a mirror. I spent my youthful years identifying the perfectly optimized jiu jitsu game, only to discover the painful fact that health is more important than jits. Who knew?
 
dead hangs from a high bar for time

core exercises

yoga/streching.
 
Frequency and intensity are also huge considerations. The last thing a young ego is concerned with is longevity. Lots of formerly "tough* and "scrappy" dudes out there who can't function in their daily lives because acknowledging injury is a sign of weakness and recovery days are for pussies.
This is the most significant factor from all i have seen. All of the guys in their 60's and 70's with physical problems i trained with were able to pinpoint them to an exact injury they didn't give time to recover properly because they wanted to keep training hard. The key to longevity is to not consistently brute-force your progress.
 
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