“We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it.”
October 23, 2020 3:19 PM Subscribe
Contrary to Elon Musk's Twitter claims, Bolivians return Evo Morales's party to power one year after a U.S.-applauded coup.
The right-wing coup was justified by flawed analysis of the 2019 election by the Organization of American States. The coup led to both bipartisan celebrations from American media and significant violence against Bolivia's indigenous population (and subsequent immunity for the perpetrators of that violence).
Despite this victory, Bolivia faces significant challenges ahead due to COVID-19 and uncertainty over what happens to those responsible for state violence during their administration.
[previously]
The right-wing coup was justified by flawed analysis of the 2019 election by the Organization of American States. The coup led to both bipartisan celebrations from American media and significant violence against Bolivia's indigenous population (and subsequent immunity for the perpetrators of that violence).
Despite this victory, Bolivia faces significant challenges ahead due to COVID-19 and uncertainty over what happens to those responsible for state violence during their administration.
[previously]
I thought that said "...after a U.S.-uploaded coup."
posted by sneebler at 4:08 PM on October 23, 2020
posted by sneebler at 4:08 PM on October 23, 2020
Bolivia, like much of Latin America, has a history of profound, systemic racism, with stark contrasts between the Amerindian majority versus the White minority.
The fact that Morales and his party represent the interests of the Aymara and Quechua is such a striking change that I can't honestly think of any parallel to compare it with. Maybe the end of South Africa's Apartheid?
The further fact that they lasted so long without a US.backed coup is surprising.
The even further fact that they managed to come back from a racist, extreme Christian-right wing puppet government, democratically, by voting, is close to miraculous.
I hope Morales has the sense to take an elder statesman position. His insistence on remaining in power was giving the whole thing an authoritarian tinge it really doesn't need.
Anyway, I love Bolivia, spent much of my college summers there. More power to them.
posted by signal at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2020 [39 favorites]
The fact that Morales and his party represent the interests of the Aymara and Quechua is such a striking change that I can't honestly think of any parallel to compare it with. Maybe the end of South Africa's Apartheid?
The further fact that they lasted so long without a US.backed coup is surprising.
The even further fact that they managed to come back from a racist, extreme Christian-right wing puppet government, democratically, by voting, is close to miraculous.
I hope Morales has the sense to take an elder statesman position. His insistence on remaining in power was giving the whole thing an authoritarian tinge it really doesn't need.
Anyway, I love Bolivia, spent much of my college summers there. More power to them.
posted by signal at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2020 [39 favorites]
DId I forget to say fuck Elon Musk?
Fuck Elon Musk.
posted by signal at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2020 [50 favorites]
Fuck Elon Musk.
posted by signal at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2020 [50 favorites]
Morales remains president of Arce’s party, but Bolivian president-elect says influence will be limited to that position.
And yes Fuck Elon Musk.
posted by adamvasco at 4:37 PM on October 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
And yes Fuck Elon Musk.
posted by adamvasco at 4:37 PM on October 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
Flawed is a very polite way of saying the OAS analysis was a pure hatchet job (though not a particularly good one).
posted by ssg at 6:19 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ssg at 6:19 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Finally some good news.
posted by subdee at 6:51 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by subdee at 6:51 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
signal: DId I forget to say fuck Elon Musk?
Fuck Elon Musk.
Well, let's not be hast...
posted by clawsoon at 6:52 PM on October 23, 2020 [15 favorites]
Fuck Elon Musk.
Well, let's not be hast...
Musk then wrote: “We will coup whoever we want! Deal with it.”Fuck you, Elon Musk. Seriously, fuck you.
posted by clawsoon at 6:52 PM on October 23, 2020 [15 favorites]
I'm glad that MAS got such an overwhelming majority that there was no way for anyone to deny it. Shame about the year of loans and privatization they now have to try and reverse, while dealing with COVID and the US breathing down their necks.
I wonder where are the mefites that last year went "mayhaps the coup was actually right."
posted by simmering octagon at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
I wonder where are the mefites that last year went "mayhaps the coup was actually right."
posted by simmering octagon at 7:07 PM on October 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
I was definitely one of them, and then I learned more (and got furious agreement from some suspicious accounts on Twitter) and changed my view. I still think the way Morales tried to hold onto power gave the appearance of illegitimacy, and that could have been handled better, so this is an ideal circumstance for me - an unambiguous election that forces out some real shitheels before they had the time to do much irreversible damage.
posted by Merus at 8:05 PM on October 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Merus at 8:05 PM on October 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I hate to say this, but it seems obvious from the context that that Elon Musk tweet was him trolling someone preemptively accusing him of participating in the coup. He was on a fairly manic tear on Twitter that night.
I also think -- certainly based on conversations with leftist friends in South America about Bolivia -- that an election can be questionable, a legitimate socialist movement be tempted by popularist personality cults or anti-democratic impulses, and then pull itself together in time to regain its popularity. Particularly in the face of an incompetent or obviously corrupt opposition party that's thrown into power, and fumbles.
posted by ntk at 8:11 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
I also think -- certainly based on conversations with leftist friends in South America about Bolivia -- that an election can be questionable, a legitimate socialist movement be tempted by popularist personality cults or anti-democratic impulses, and then pull itself together in time to regain its popularity. Particularly in the face of an incompetent or obviously corrupt opposition party that's thrown into power, and fumbles.
posted by ntk at 8:11 PM on October 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
morales: hey elon want to hear a joke
musk: uh sure
morales: lithium
musk: is that the joke? i don’t get it.
morales: no, you don’t.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:13 PM on October 23, 2020 [38 favorites]
musk: uh sure
morales: lithium
musk: is that the joke? i don’t get it.
morales: no, you don’t.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:13 PM on October 23, 2020 [38 favorites]
Is there any credible evidence that this was about lithium and that Musk had anything to do with it, other than his tweet? I think there are tons of people and organizations who would be motivated to try to topple a successful left-wing government in South America, and lithium is only one of many natural resources that multinational corporations may try to exploit. I get that Musk is sort of a fun social media character, but it would be better to try to resist buying into his bullshit, which only benefits him.
I still wish Morales had just stuck to the term limits rather than getting them overturned. If Arce is a capable president now, he could have run last year. This doesn't justify the coup, but it would have been a better outcome.
posted by vogon_poet at 8:21 PM on October 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
I still wish Morales had just stuck to the term limits rather than getting them overturned. If Arce is a capable president now, he could have run last year. This doesn't justify the coup, but it would have been a better outcome.
posted by vogon_poet at 8:21 PM on October 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
I get that Musk is sort of a fun social media character, but it would be better to try to resist buying into his bullshit
Nobody here is buying into his bullshit. They are calling him out for his bullshit. He's a disgusting shit-heel, which he has proved again and again. He has demonstrated that he is an authoritarian with no regard for law, rules or human decency.
posted by JackFlash at 8:38 PM on October 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
Nobody here is buying into his bullshit. They are calling him out for his bullshit. He's a disgusting shit-heel, which he has proved again and again. He has demonstrated that he is an authoritarian with no regard for law, rules or human decency.
posted by JackFlash at 8:38 PM on October 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
I highlighted Musk's comment for its white supremacy, arrogance, and thankfully, for him being proven wrong. If it truly is just trolling, Musk is joking about a history that has led to an unimaginable amount of death and misery as a result of bipartisan U.S. foreign policy in Latin America.
I have no evidence that this coup was over lithium; I imagine the more likely reason is the banal evil of the domestic right-wing white minority sensing a moment to seize power away from a party that successfully represented the interests of long oppressed and underrepresented indigenous and poor people in Bolivia. It is depressing to me how excited I feel when I see so many people vote for their material interests.
Besides, it isn't as though the United States has ever toppled democratically elected Latin American states over financial interests...Right?
posted by Ouverture at 8:45 PM on October 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I have no evidence that this coup was over lithium; I imagine the more likely reason is the banal evil of the domestic right-wing white minority sensing a moment to seize power away from a party that successfully represented the interests of long oppressed and underrepresented indigenous and poor people in Bolivia. It is depressing to me how excited I feel when I see so many people vote for their material interests.
Besides, it isn't as though the United States has ever toppled democratically elected Latin American states over financial interests...Right?
posted by Ouverture at 8:45 PM on October 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think we largely agree with each other.
A lot of people are buying into Musk's bullshit, though. Plenty of people think this was a Tesla-backed coup like the United Fruit Company. I get the desire to mock Elon Musk, he is very mockable, but I really wish everyone would just ignore him completely.
I have a hard time judging the counterfactual of whether the coup would have been attempted had a different MAS candidate won the original election. By definition the conspirators do not respect democracy. But I do think Morales running himself created weaknesses they were able to exploit.
During the campaign I remember worrying that there might be nobody underneath Morales who was actually competent enough to run as a successor, and that's why he felt he had to do it himself. Sometimes leaders with big egos set things up like that. But at least it seems that is not the case here.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:14 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
A lot of people are buying into Musk's bullshit, though. Plenty of people think this was a Tesla-backed coup like the United Fruit Company. I get the desire to mock Elon Musk, he is very mockable, but I really wish everyone would just ignore him completely.
I have a hard time judging the counterfactual of whether the coup would have been attempted had a different MAS candidate won the original election. By definition the conspirators do not respect democracy. But I do think Morales running himself created weaknesses they were able to exploit.
During the campaign I remember worrying that there might be nobody underneath Morales who was actually competent enough to run as a successor, and that's why he felt he had to do it himself. Sometimes leaders with big egos set things up like that. But at least it seems that is not the case here.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:14 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah he’s joking/trolling in response to the Tesla/coup theory. In reality the coup is not, of course, all about Tesla. But Elon Musk is still an asshole.
posted by atoxyl at 9:28 PM on October 23, 2020
posted by atoxyl at 9:28 PM on October 23, 2020
Also vogon_poet I just accidentally flagged your comment as... something, I don’t actually know what. It might have been as good! I’m sure the mods can tell that it’s an accident if it wasn’t good but I’ve never done that before and I feel bad if I flagged your comment as bad!
posted by atoxyl at 9:30 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 9:30 PM on October 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
I get that Musk is sort of a fun social media character
For some definition of 'fun'.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:17 AM on October 24, 2020
For some definition of 'fun'.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:17 AM on October 24, 2020
I hate to say this, but it seems obvious from the context that that Elon Musk tweet was him trolling someone preemptively accusing him of participating in the coup.
I don't think any grown ups have entertained the notion that the tweet was an admission to literal participation in a coup. What's disgraceful about it is that, despite obviously being a joke, it's still true. It precisely represents the attitude of the class that Musk belongs to and the institutions that serve its interests. Interference in and suppression of South American democracy in the service of capitalism is one of the most consistent features of US foreign policy, and we are at a point in history where a major beneficiary of that policy feels comfortable joking about it in public.
It's a sign of the times, if ever there were one.
posted by howfar at 1:09 AM on October 24, 2020 [15 favorites]
I don't think any grown ups have entertained the notion that the tweet was an admission to literal participation in a coup. What's disgraceful about it is that, despite obviously being a joke, it's still true. It precisely represents the attitude of the class that Musk belongs to and the institutions that serve its interests. Interference in and suppression of South American democracy in the service of capitalism is one of the most consistent features of US foreign policy, and we are at a point in history where a major beneficiary of that policy feels comfortable joking about it in public.
It's a sign of the times, if ever there were one.
posted by howfar at 1:09 AM on October 24, 2020 [15 favorites]
the thing about elon musk is that he is kanye-level unhinged and says the quiet parts way louder than better hinged rich people do. it's just that society indulges baffling public displays of unhingedness from rich people.
but in better news, indigenous socialists have somehow used the apparatus of bourgeois-colonialist electoral democracy to regain power, and have (at least so far) managed to suppress the counterrevolution through nonviolent means. that's pretty freaking awesome, right?
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
but in better news, indigenous socialists have somehow used the apparatus of bourgeois-colonialist electoral democracy to regain power, and have (at least so far) managed to suppress the counterrevolution through nonviolent means. that's pretty freaking awesome, right?
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:41 AM on October 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
yes, it is definitely something to feel optimistic about, i’m just out of practice at optimism. i think the future is bright for Bolivia.
posted by vogon_poet at 8:45 AM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by vogon_poet at 8:45 AM on October 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Nobody here is buying into his bullshit.
*rolleyes* For someone not buying into bullshit, this thread seems more about Musk than about Bolivia. Metafilter can't seem to help itself.
Hopefully, Morales/MAS learned a valuable lesson. People/parties in their position rarely get a peaceful second chance.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:39 AM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
*rolleyes* For someone not buying into bullshit, this thread seems more about Musk than about Bolivia. Metafilter can't seem to help itself.
Hopefully, Morales/MAS learned a valuable lesson. People/parties in their position rarely get a peaceful second chance.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:39 AM on October 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
Opposition members challenge the landslide victory of presidential candidate Luis Arce.
Social media campaigns denouncing Camacho and his running mate Marco Antonio Pumari as traitors have already been seen on Facebook and Instagram. Their refusal to step down from the close election race split a critical portion of the vote that would´ve gone to Carlos Mesa, giving the defeated political centrist a greater chance of victory over the MAS.
The final tally showed Arce won just over 55% of the vote.
The Socialist Win in Bolivia and the New Era of Lithium Extraction
Exit polling in Bolivia this week gave a new and enthusiastic mandate to developing lithium reserves in the public interest, not narrowly for corporate gain.
posted by adamvasco at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
Social media campaigns denouncing Camacho and his running mate Marco Antonio Pumari as traitors have already been seen on Facebook and Instagram. Their refusal to step down from the close election race split a critical portion of the vote that would´ve gone to Carlos Mesa, giving the defeated political centrist a greater chance of victory over the MAS.
The final tally showed Arce won just over 55% of the vote.
The Socialist Win in Bolivia and the New Era of Lithium Extraction
Exit polling in Bolivia this week gave a new and enthusiastic mandate to developing lithium reserves in the public interest, not narrowly for corporate gain.
posted by adamvasco at 11:42 AM on October 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if I believe Elon Musk was involved in the coup against Morales, but I want to believe that Grimes' Mom reversed the coup just to spite her son-in-law.
posted by jonp72 at 7:29 PM on October 24, 2020
posted by jonp72 at 7:29 PM on October 24, 2020
Mod note: One deleted. Suggestion: For those who wish to see less Elon Musk here, the best way to do that is to talk more about Bolivia / Morales, not to increase the Elon Musk by complaining about too much Elon Musk.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:50 AM on October 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 12:50 AM on October 25, 2020 [2 favorites]
MAS Senator Adriana Salvatierra
A revolution that distances itself even one centimeter from its people is a revolution that becomes fragile
posted by adamvasco at 6:55 AM on October 25, 2020
A revolution that distances itself even one centimeter from its people is a revolution that becomes fragile
posted by adamvasco at 6:55 AM on October 25, 2020
I still think the way Morales tried to hold onto power gave the appearance of illegitimacy
Do you mean trying to run for a 4th term when the Bolivian constitution only allows for 2 terms?
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:32 PM on October 26, 2020
Do you mean trying to run for a 4th term when the Bolivian constitution only allows for 2 terms?
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:32 PM on October 26, 2020
A special committee of the Bolivian Parliament on Monday recommended starting trials against the leader of the coup-born regime Jeanine Añez and some ministers for the massacres of Sacaba and Senkata that took place in 2019.
posted by adamvasco at 4:11 AM on October 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 4:11 AM on October 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
« Older "When Tomorrow is Today..." | Squish That Cat Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
For whatever it's worth, the OAS preliminary report found the 2020 election to have been transparent and fair.
posted by jedicus at 3:25 PM on October 23, 2020 [5 favorites]