FARK.com: (9566311) "It's not teaching religion, but it teaches character and respect and how important it is to tell the truth," says Courtney Tolliver, while lying through her teeth

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		"It's not teaching religion, but it teaches character and respect and how important it is to tell the truth," says Courtney Tolliver, while lying through her teeth (washingtonpost.com)		165
		More: Obvious, High school, Bible, public schools, Bible class, Bible course, Mercer County, weekly Bible class, West Virginia

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8980 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Apr 2017 at 1:33 AM (7 years ago) | Favorite | share: Copy Link

165 Comments (+0 »)

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iron de havilland

Smartest (1) Funniest (22)

2017-04-25 9:16:08 PM

WickerNipple

Smartest (18) Funniest (12)

2017-04-25 9:52:07 PM

"If all of the Israelites had chosen to follow the Ten Commandments, think of how safe and happy they would have been."

Oh for fark's sake.

scottydoesntknow

Smartest (34) Funniest (0)

2017-04-25 10:01:27 PM

"My experience with it has been very positive. I've never known of anyone who has been pressured or felt ostracized," said the Rev. David W. Dockery, senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Princeton. "Any time God's word can be proclaimed is beneficial and is a good thing."

And yet you feel the need to involve it in public schools.

/gotta indoctrinate them early
//how about a mandatory class on the Constitution?

scottydoesntknow

Smartest (57) Funniest (4)

2017-04-25 10:08:14 PM

"There is a great deal of not just poetry and prose in the Bible, but from what I've read almost every piece of history that's in the Bible has eventually been proven," he said. "We see the Bible not just as a book of faith but as a pretty accurate account of history that informs us about a lot of things that happened."

Well shiat, and here I thought the reverends were done talking out of their asses. That's what I get for not finishing.

The Bible is not historical fact. If locations and some famous people mentioned in the Bible happened to exist, then Harry Potter must be real because it talks about London and the Prime Minister.

hubiestubert

Smartest (23) Funniest (0)

2017-04-25 11:01:41 PM

I'm certain then that they'll be cool with me teaching from Pema Chodron's The Places That Scare You.

Here's the thing: if you just label a course, unequivocally The Bible As Literature, as an elective, things would be fine. Or have such classes in their private schools, paid for by the local churches. No problem there, either.

The issue isn't the material, but the appropriateness of using school funds to promote one faith over another, because I'm betting that they weren't doing comparative religious studies with the Koran, and of the MANY Buddhist Sutras, and I'm betting not giving equal time to Rastafrainism, Jains, or Sikh beliefs.

There is certainly a place in school for religious studies. As electives. Most kids don't get electives until later, when they have choices about such things. Elementary school kids? Not given choices. And their parents aren't given those choices either.

Hold off on the religious instruction, and the lovely lessons within, until Bible Study on Sundays--which is not a bad idea, and my Buddhist tochis went to Bible Study when I was in the South, and I'm glad I did because I learned a lot--or whenever their parents want to arrange it. As an elective. One that the student can choose.

swaniefrmreddeer

Smartest (16) Funniest (37)

2017-04-25 11:19:08 PM

Weaver95

Smartest (25) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 12:27:36 AM

I can't wait for the church of satan to start up a similar class in this neighborhood.

wejash

Smartest (0) Funniest (4)

2017-04-26 12:33:14 AM

naughtyrev: And the story about how their son Cain killed his brother, Abel.
"That one was a little bit of a surprise," Trenton said as he sat with his parents, Brett and Courtney Tolliver, one day this month watching his little sister's soccer practice on a lush field in this small town in the mountains of southern West Virginia.

Well, Trenton, take solace in the fact that the mark of Cain damned those who sought to kill him, as well as damning Cain's efforts to make the land fertile - but his descendants found other ways to survive and be successful. And lets face it, Cain lived and built a legacy, while Abel pleased God but still died. Ask yourself who God would favor, Trenton - you, or your sister out there on the soccer field? God gave you free will - I think you know what to do.

Good lord, living up to your handle, rev!

timujin

Smartest (6) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 12:55:30 AM

He gets to play matching games about Bible stories and listen to classic tales. Noah and the Ark is a favorite. Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden, of course. And the story about how their son Cain killed his brother, Abel.

Are they approaching these stories as fiction or as history? The first, while a bit advanced for seven year old kids, can be educational, especially when juxtaposed against what the historical evidence indicates was actually going on at the time they were written. The second, though.. If you're telling kids that the world was once covered in a flood by some petty deity with insecurity issues and all the animals were saved by a 600-year-old dude with a boat, or that Adam and Eve were real people and one of their sons killed the other because their god snubbed him, then that's religion.

Weaver95

Smartest (28) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:00:32 AM

I wonder if this class teaches the history and politics of how the christian bible got written? it didn't happen overnight, and was the end result of a political, theological and economic discussion that lasted almost a century. THAT would be something I'd like kids to learn.

somehow tho, I suspect the purpose of this class it to teach kids how to be christian and direct them away from anything non-christian.

fusillade762

Smartest (15) Funniest (20)

2017-04-26 1:08:27 AM

I think it's a great program mainly because it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible

Are bibles really that expensive? Steal one from a hotel room or something.

dahmers love zombie

Smartest (18) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 1:13:44 AM

Do you think they'd let me do a special topics course focusing on the Establishment Clause? I promise that the Bible will be mentioned more than once during the course.

MaudlinMutantMollusk

Smartest (1) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:27:22 AM

Relax, guys

/It doesn't sound like they're pushing Christianity
//They're only teaching about the Jewish parts

timujin

Smartest (13) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:28:41 AM

Weaver95: I wonder if this class teaches the history and politics of how the christian bible got written? it didn't happen overnight, and was the end result of a political, theological and economic discussion that lasted almost a century. THAT would be something I'd like kids to learn.

somehow tho, I suspect the purpose of this class it to teach kids how to be christian and direct them away from anything non-christian.

I have a feeling that if little Trenton came home and told his mom that they'd been taught that the Biblical Moses and Abraham were invented by rival Jewish factions sparring over land rights, she probably wouldn't have as high an opinion of the class.

timujin

Smartest (25) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 1:34:56 AM

"There is a great deal of not just poetry and prose in the Bible, but from what I've read almost every piece of history that's in the Bible has eventually been proven," Rev. Hurt said.

The good Reverend doesn't read much, I guess.

reaperducer

Smartest (1) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 1:37:22 AM

Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

AverageAmericanGuy

Smartest (0) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 1:48:08 AM

That woman has hairy arms. You'd think she'd be all aboard the evolution train.

Scarlioni

Smartest (13) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 1:48:12 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

Exactly why you shouldn't teach them a lie...

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (21) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:49:53 AM

We totally need more bronze-age ethics taught in public schools, how else are kids going to learn that incest, rape, slavery, and genocide are a-ok if ~~GOD~~ voices in your head tell you to?

saintwrathchild

Smartest (6) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:50:05 AM

scottydoesntknow: "There is a great deal of not just poetry and prose in the Bible, but from what I've read almost every piece of history that's in the Bible has eventually been proven," he said. "We see the Bible not just as a book of faith but as a pretty accurate account of history that informs us about a lot of things that happened."

Well shiat, and here I thought the reverends were done talking out of their asses. That's what I get for not finishing.

The Bible is not historical fact. If locations and some famous people mentioned in the Bible happened to exist, then Harry Potter must be real because it talks about London and the Prime Minister.

Luke is a beautifully composed work of great compassion, I encourage anyone interested in reading something biblical as literature to go there first.

However, what you already quoted of the pastor does NOT jibe at all with the "as literature" concept:

"My experience with it has been very positive. I've never known of anyone who has been pressured or felt ostracized," said the Rev. David W. Dockery, senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Princeton. "Any time God's word can be proclaimed is beneficial and is a good thing."

That's intent to proselytize on public space, time, and dime, pure and simple. Oh and that "I've never known of anyone" line is rich.

Weaver95

Smartest (26) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 1:50:27 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

you can teach kids right from wrong and encourage them not to lie without forcing a biblical worldview on them at such an early age.

its downright creepy sometimes how obsessed many christian sects are with children.

Sin'sHero

Smartest (1) Funniest (7)

2017-04-26 1:50:31 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

The things I learned at Sunday School.

Weaver95

Smartest (9) Funniest (4)

2017-04-26 1:51:42 AM

if something like this ever starts up in my area, I'll volunteer to help teach a class on paganism.

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (7) Funniest (18)

2017-04-26 1:52:16 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

2/10 You didn't use "libtards" or "faillenials"

Weaver95

Smartest (7) Funniest (4)

2017-04-26 1:52:40 AM

AquaTatanka: Most of the Christians I know haven't even heard of Nicea.

and the few who have, tend to think its some sort of sneaker.

*sigh*

christians. so many of them don't bother to learn their own history.

gnosis301

Smartest (6) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 1:52:46 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

This is bait.

saintwrathchild

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 1:54:26 AM

Weaver95: if something like this ever starts up in my area, I'll volunteer to help teach a class on paganism.

*raises left hand*

And I'll help!

jedzz

Smartest (16) Funniest (7)

2017-04-26 1:56:10 AM

Excellent point, Mrs. Tolliver. Try as I might, I also can't think of anywhere outside the bible where children have been taught the importance of telling the truth.

Nope. Nothing's coming.

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (19) Funniest (4)

2017-04-26 1:56:37 AM

hubiestubert: I'm certain then that they'll be cool with me teaching from Pema Chodron's The Places That Scare You.

Here's the thing: if you just label a course, unequivocally The Bible As Literature, as an elective, things would be fine. Or have such classes in their private schools, paid for by the local churches. No problem there, either.

The issue isn't the material, but the appropriateness of using school funds to promote one faith over another, because I'm betting that they weren't doing comparative religious studies with the Koran, and of the MANY Buddhist Sutras, and I'm betting not giving equal time to Rastafrainism, Jains, or Sikh beliefs.

There is certainly a place in school for religious studies. As electives. Most kids don't get electives until later, when they have choices about such things. Elementary school kids? Not given choices. And their parents aren't given those choices either.

Hold off on the religious instruction, and the lovely lessons within, until Bible Study on Sundays--which is not a bad idea, and my Buddhist tochis went to Bible Study when I was in the South, and I'm glad I did because I learned a lot--or whenever their parents want to arrange it. As an elective. One that the student can choose.

As a former science teacher dealing with evangelicals freaking out due to evolution and me objecting an illegal bible study course, I offered to teach a comparative religion course. Things died off pretty quickly after that.

ecmoRandomNumbers

Smartest (2) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 1:56:57 AM

Tithing doesn't just grow on trees, you know. It takes years of brainwashing to get people to give their money away to an abstract concept.

Also:
FTFA:
...watching his little sister's soccer practice on a lush field in this small town in the mountains of southern West Virginia.

Well, there you go. I expect them to start singing "I Am My Own Grandpa" from The Stupids.

moothemagiccow

Smartest (0) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 2:01:55 AM

West Virginia, you're not a state anymore. You're just the west part of Virginia now.
Virginia, fark you, take West Virginia. You got cocky. Now you have to take care of a million Republicans who think LifeWay is a library.

Bucky Katt

Smartest (14) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:03:36 AM

It's amazing how frequently theocrats lie about this sort of thing.

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (1) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:04:04 AM

AquaTatanka: MrPoopyPants: hubiestubert: I'm certain then that they'll be cool with me teaching from Pema Chodron's The Places That Scare You.

Here's the thing: if you just label a course, unequivocally The Bible As Literature, as an elective, things would be fine. Or have such classes in their private schools, paid for by the local churches. No problem there, either.

The issue isn't the material, but the appropriateness of using school funds to promote one faith over another, because I'm betting that they weren't doing comparative religious studies with the Koran, and of the MANY Buddhist Sutras, and I'm betting not giving equal time to Rastafrainism, Jains, or Sikh beliefs.

There is certainly a place in school for religious studies. As electives. Most kids don't get electives until later, when they have choices about such things. Elementary school kids? Not given choices. And their parents aren't given those choices either.

Hold off on the religious instruction, and the lovely lessons within, until Bible Study on Sundays--which is not a bad idea, and my Buddhist tochis went to Bible Study when I was in the South, and I'm glad I did because I learned a lot--or whenever their parents want to arrange it. As an elective. One that the student can choose.

As a former science teacher dealing with evangelicals freaking out due to evolution and me objecting an illegal bible study course, I offered to teach a comparative religion course. Things died off pretty quickly after that.

In Which state did this happen? Just curious. Certain locales seem to have a much bigger problem with this than others.

Rural Alaska, in a fairly agnostic community, just takes the right mix of douchebags to start the fires, but yeah, there are far worse places to teach science.

Snapper Carr

Smartest (6) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:04:51 AM

You could accomplish the same goals with an ethics class and avoid all the hubbub.

Hell, you could even incorporate the Bible (along with other "holy books) as an example of the dominant (but by no means sole) ethical framework of Western civilization.

saintwrathchild

Smartest (6) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 2:05:44 AM

moothemagiccow: West Virginia, you're not a state anymore. You're just the west part of Virginia now.
Virginia, fark you, take West Virginia. You got cocky. Now you have to take care of a million Republicans who think LifeWay is a library.

Trump won WV by over 90%, and Virginia is already a swing state.

You basically just created the Texas of the East.

robert byrd non-racist democrat

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:05:46 AM

MrPoopyPants: reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

2/10 You didn't use "libtards" or "faillenials"

Libturd is better....

DarkSoulNoHope

Smartest (10) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 2:07:21 AM

fusillade762: I think it's a great program mainly because it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible

Are bibles really that expensive? Steal one from a hotel room or something.

These pastors always act like life outside of Christianity means that everyone who rejects their religion must not heard the "miraculous story" as if there isn't a church in just about every town!

saintwrathchild

Smartest (2) Funniest (1)

2017-04-26 2:07:53 AM

Snapper Carr: You could accomplish the same goals with an ethics class and avoid all the hubbub.

Hell, you could even incorporate the Bible (along with other "holy books) as an example of the dominant (but by no means sole) ethical framework of Western civilization.

Well. All right.

Just so long as it's taught by a big white guy with a beard, a bad temper, and a cruel, authoritarian bent.

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:08:00 AM

Well technically, it was created illegally, so I guess blame Abe Lincoln.

/the supreme court ruled on it already, so I guess we are sol

robert byrd non-racist democrat

Smartest (0) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 2:08:47 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Weaver95: I wonder if this class teaches the history and politics of how the christian bible got written? it didn't happen overnight, and was the end result of a political, theological and economic discussion that lasted almost a century. THAT would be something I'd like kids to learn.

somehow tho, I suspect the purpose of this class it to teach kids how to be christian and direct them away from anything non-christian.

Tithing doesn't just grow on trees, you know. It takes years of brainwashing to get people to give their money away to an abstract concept.

Also:
FTFA:
...watching his little sister's soccer practice on a lush field in this small town in the mountains of southern West Virginia.

Well, there you go. I expect them to start singing "I Am My Own Grandpa" from The Stupids.

"Tithing doesn't just grow on trees, you know. It takes years of brainwashing to get people to give their money away to an abstract concept."

Sounds like the gospel of Southern poverty law center and their 600 million dollar slush fund collected from leftist true believers ......

ElwoodCuse

Smartest (4) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:08:47 AM

saintwrathchild: Trump won WV by over 90%,

uh it was 68 to 26

Know who else won WV? Bernie

Mrtraveler01

Smartest (10) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:09:41 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: fusillade762: I think it's a great program mainly because it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible

Are bibles really that expensive? Steal one from a hotel room or something.

These pastors always act like life outside of Christianity means that everyone who rejects their religion must not heard the "miraculous story" as if there isn't a church in just about every town!

That quote is also damning as it disproves the defense that the intent of this class isn't to proselytize.

Of course someone from West By God Virginia wouldn't recognize something as nuanced as that

saintwrathchild

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:10:33 AM

ElwoodCuse: saintwrathchild: Trump won WV by over 90%,

uh it was 68 to 26

Know who else won WV? Bernie

Balls, my bad, where did I have that crap clinking around in my head... Win prediction maybe...

ModernLuddite

Smartest (3) Funniest (9)

2017-04-26 2:11:05 AM

"I think it's a great program mainly because it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible," said Brett Tolliver, 27. "More importantly, I don't know who it harms. The kids aren't forced to be there."

"I think it's a great program mainly because it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible,"

it's the only chance for some of these kids to even see the Bible

it's the only chance

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (4) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:11:24 AM

Nothing freaks out evangelicals more than saying you will use other holy books from my experience, but yep, ethics should be a required high school class.

/but there are no for profit testing companies that have money in it so good luck
//not cynical at all

Mrtraveler01

Smartest (3) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:12:29 AM

ElwoodCuse: saintwrathchild: Trump won WV by over 90%,

uh it was 68 to 26

Know who else won WV? Bernie

Bernie wasn't going to win WV against Trump.

The people in that state have been brainwashed with that "War on Coal" propaganda that they won't for anything to the left of Manchin.

moothemagiccow

Smartest (6) Funniest (2)

2017-04-26 2:13:10 AM

reaperducer: Teaching children right from wrong? Encouraging them not to lie? How terrible! This must be stopped!

-Internet lefties and Millenials

And the priest shall bring it to the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God. And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.

moothemagiccow

Smartest (0) Funniest (3)

2017-04-26 2:13:35 AM

saintwrathchild: moothemagiccow: West Virginia, you're not a state anymore. You're just the west part of Virginia now.
Virginia, fark you, take West Virginia. You got cocky. Now you have to take care of a million Republicans who think LifeWay is a library.

Trump won WV by over 90%, and Virginia is already a swing state.

You basically just created the Texas of the East.

They. Got. Cocky.

Coram_Deo

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:13:48 AM

Too bad I couldn't read the article.

MrPoopyPants

Smartest (0) Funniest (0)

2017-04-26 2:15:46 AM

AquaTatanka: MrPoopyPants: moothemagiccow: West Virginia, you're not a state anymore. You're just the west part of Virginia now.
Virginia, fark you, take West Virginia. You got cocky. Now you have to take care of a million Republicans who think LifeWay is a library.

Well technically, it was created illegally, so I guess blame Abe Lincoln.

/the supreme court ruled on it already, so I guess we are sol

And I like the song 'Take Me Home' a lot. [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/1vrEljMfXYo - 480x270]

It's like my number 4 or 5 goto karaoke song, so yes, they have ole johnny d going for them :)

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