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(Huffington Post)   Trump lays pipe   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Followup, ExxonMobil, President of the United States, tar sands, Canadian tar sands, State Tom Shannon, State Rex Tillerson, later Friday morning, Dirty Fuels campaign  
•       •       •

7749 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 24 Mar 2017 at 10:50 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (12)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 9:33:49 AM  
The State Dept is in charge of pipeline approvals? Recused or not, NOW I see why Tilly got the job.
 
Diogenes [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (14)   Funniest (2)  
2017-03-24 10:20:27 AM  
Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.
 
jake_lex [TotalFark]  
Smartest (7)   Funniest (3)  
2017-03-24 10:28:35 AM  
It's great news for the 35 full time employees needed to run it after it's done.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/27/news/economy/trump-keystone-jobs/
 
dittybopper  
Smartest (21)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:41:18 AM  

Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.


Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.
 
dittybopper  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (19)  
2017-03-24 10:42:19 AM  

dittybopper: It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline


I said barrel twice.  I like barrels.
 
2017-03-24 10:51:11 AM  
Yeah, but will he fix the cable?
 
2017-03-24 10:51:55 AM  

edmo: The State Dept is in charge of pipeline approvals? Recused or not, NOW I see why Tilly got the job.


They are for the bit that crosses the U.S. border.
 
TheFoz  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2017-03-24 10:53:17 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
texanjeff  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (2)  
2017-03-24 10:53:18 AM  
Isn't there someone who can tell these jokers to stop doing things while they are under investigation?

Oh wait. They are looking for the leaks...
 
2017-03-24 10:54:30 AM  
Does this involve Ivanka?
 
ChipNASA  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (12)  
2017-03-24 10:54:41 AM  
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2017-03-24 10:54:48 AM  
Oh look, Trump made some jobs!
 
2017-03-24 10:54:52 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
berylman  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 10:55:13 AM  
Tillerson recused himself? Ya, in theory and image maybe. There are ways to pull strings.
 
abhorrent1  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 10:55:40 AM  
With that sweet, sweet Russian steel.
 
Gleeman  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 10:55:44 AM  

jake_lex: It's great news for the 35 full time employees needed to run it after it's done.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/27/news/economy/trump-keystone-jobs/


Yep, nice to see us subsidizing the Canadian oil industry. Not like the market isn't depressed enough with all the fracking oil flooding it.
 
Headso  
Smartest (7)   Funniest (2)  
2017-03-24 10:56:16 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.


Except the alternative to cheap oil prices isn't expensive oil prices and the people knuckling under it's a shift to renewables that will collapse the fossil fuel market.
 
robodog  
Smartest (15)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:56:16 AM  
As usual Trump is lying, ignorant, or both. Keystone will do NOTHING for US energy security, the pipeline is an expressway to the Gulf tax free export zone, the output of those refineries will never be used in the US because that would mean paying taxes on it.
 
Archidude  
Smartest (16)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 10:56:31 AM  
Yay for increasing profits of Canadian oil producers at the expense of American consumers in the midwest!

AMERICA FIRST!
 
Splinthar  
Smartest (7)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:56:32 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.


What about the steel we are buying from Russian owned companies? I mean normally I love all things "america's hat" but its pretty clear that Trump had no commitment to his domestic materials bullshiate.

The "Energy Trade War" Obama waged against Russia continues to be undermined by Trump's relaxation and warming of relations for which the Russians give the American people nothing, but the Trump family full release latte's.
 
Highroller48  
Smartest (17)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:56:43 AM  

Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.


Great news for Alberta, because it boosts jobs in the oil sands.
Great news for China, because it increases their access to non mid-east oil.
Irrelevant news for America, because not a drop of this oil is likely going to be sold to the U.S. - it's all about getting it to a seaport.
Bad news for everyone, because it means more oil being used and more carbom and water pollution to extract it, and probably more pipeline spills.

Keystone will probably directly benefit me, but I'm still not a fan.  I'd rather see Alberta become the world's leading producer of windmill turbines, solar tech and next-gen nuke reactors.
 
Kurohone  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:57:16 AM  

Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.


This is GREAT news for Canada.

If it actually happens, it instantly solves the problem of trying to get new cross-country lines built (no longer needed!), reduces reliance on rail transport (a big concern since Lac Megantique), and might make the Athabaska tar sands economically viable again, putting a band-aid on the Alberta and Saskatchewan economies for a little while.  All at the cost of a tiny bit of pipeline being added in SW Saskatchewan (if it hasn't already been built).
 
skeevy420  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (7)  
2017-03-24 10:57:26 AM  
Well I'm disappointed.  I was expecting Ivanka nudes.
 
ChrisDe  
Smartest (8)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:58:28 AM  
As an extra lift to American workers, Trump had previously promised the Keystone would be constructed with domestic steel. The administration earlier this month abandoned that pledgeand granted TransCanada an exemption to use foreign steel during construction.
 
jethroe  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 10:59:03 AM  

Archidude: Yay for increasing profits of Canadian oil producers at the expense of American consumers in the midwest!

AMERICA FIRST!



40 to 50 percent of the oil sands is foreign owned, including the Koch Brothers.
 
2017-03-24 10:59:51 AM  
I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.
 
2017-03-24 11:00:07 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.


Are you paid by the Trump administration or are you one of the Russian trolls? This pipeline is really meant to move the Alberta tar sand oil which needs to have oil prices at over $88 a barrel to be profitable (last report I saw). It is so unprofitable that the Canadian government gave up on it. This is only about subsidizing the poor starving oil companies.
 
2017-03-24 11:01:10 AM  

Headso: dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.

Except the alternative to cheap oil prices isn't expensive oil prices and the people knuckling under it's a shift to renewables that will collapse the fossil fuel market.


That's as may be, but cheap oil does *NOT* help Russia.  It hurts them.  Period.  Trump's energy policy tends towards cheap oil.

We may argue about the environmental wisdom of that, but not the economic effect it has on Russia.
 
Archidude  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:01:11 AM  

BafflerMeal: I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.


What Democrats were arguing for this pipeline?
 
sparks2021  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (2)  
2017-03-24 11:01:38 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.


Trump's policies will increase demand for oil, thus increasing its price, which is good for Russia. The tar sands oil that will be transported via this pipeline needs the price per barrel to increase by about $20-$30 to be profitable (newer sites use more efficient techniques that have reduced the cost somewhat, it used to be an $80 /barrel threshold now it's closer to $70/barrel. Russia would love to see those prices, and you can bet that with reduced support for green energy, more support for the fossil fuel industry, and the proposed reduction in CAFE standards, and reduction in funding for public transportation projects is going to increase demand for gasoline. But it's ok, 35 Americans will be employed to help a Canadian company sell it's oil, all at the cost of potentially poisoning the Midwest's water supply and abusing eminent domain (so much for small government Republicans!)

Look, I know it must be hard to try to white knight Trump, so I can't really expect you to bring anything worthwhile to the debate in his defense, but have you considered just admitting that he's a shiatty president whose policies will hurt the average American? At least then you could post without embarrassing yourself.
 
2017-03-24 11:01:54 AM  
Of all this shiat to be outraged over, this is pretty much at the bottom of the list.  The oil is going to get to the refineries one way or the other, and while a pipeline obviously can have issues, it's a lot less impactful on the planet than the tens of thousands of semi trucks and train engines that would otherwise be spewing emissions into the air.
 
rummonkey  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (1)  
2017-03-24 11:02:46 AM  
Those 100 permanent jobs aren't going to create themselves...

Think of all the jobs that will be created in the oil spill cleanup industry.

Americuh!
 
Burr  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:02:55 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.


The rumor around the ITER project was that this graffiti (between the site and the town of Manosque)
Fark user imageView Full Size

Was put there by some Russian agents trying to get the locals to protest against the project (there where other signs around the area as well, I just remember this one the most since it was the route I took to the town).  Since most of France's natural gas comes from Russia they see the project as a threat.

The heart on the ITER side of the bridge was actually a Natural Gas symbol (a red and blue flame) when I was over there (three years ago).
 
2017-03-24 11:02:59 AM  
on the same day no less the manafort russian oil story broke wide.

brazen.
 
skeevy420  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:04:14 AM  

Splinthar: What about the steel we are buying from Russian owned companies? I mean normally I love all things "america's hat" but its pretty clear that Trump had no commitment to his domestic materials bullshiate.


As a steel worker in Arkansas....Almost all of the steel I buy comes from Canada and the rest from the US.  Wouldn't it cost too much to freight raw steel over the ocean?

And I prefer the Canadian steel.  American steel comes overly coated in oil and rusted up...almost like it sits out in the rain, the oil eventually washes off, steel rusts, gets oiled again, repeat...
 
2017-03-24 11:04:23 AM  

Archidude: BafflerMeal: I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.

What Democrats were arguing for this pipeline?


I'm guessing any Dems from the states that are on the planned route.
 
sparks2021  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:06:37 AM  

Highroller48: Archidude: BafflerMeal: I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.

What Democrats were arguing for this pipeline?

I'm guessing any Dems from the states that are on the planned route.


Those were probably the most vocal against it. Even Republicans from those states were often against it given that it was taking their land and the risk to their water supply
 
DarkVader  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:06:59 AM  

Johnny Rockets: Of all this shiat to be outraged over, this is pretty much at the bottom of the list.  The oil is going to get to the refineries one way or the other, and while a pipeline obviously can have issues, it's a lot less impactful on the planet than the tens of thousands of semi trucks and train engines that would otherwise be spewing emissions into the air.


No, it isn't going to get to the refineries one way or the other.

If it's too expensive to transport, it's going to stay in the ground where it belongs.
 
2017-03-24 11:08:05 AM  

Highroller48: Archidude: BafflerMeal: I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.

What Democrats were arguing for this pipeline?

I'm guessing any Dems from the states that are on the planned route.


True.  But I was speaking of Farkers.  Especially during primary season when dealing with Clinton's evolving positions on the issue.  There were many tortuous and energetic defenses of the XL pipeline as proxy for Clinton.
 
2017-03-24 11:09:57 AM  
Well, obviously this will totally bring back those coal jobs!
 
2017-03-24 11:10:43 AM  

skeevy420: Splinthar: What about the steel we are buying from Russian owned companies? I mean normally I love all things "america's hat" but its pretty clear that Trump had no commitment to his domestic materials bullshiate.

As a steel worker in Arkansas....Almost all of the steel I buy comes from Canada and the rest from the US.  Wouldn't it cost too much to freight raw steel over the ocean?

And I prefer the Canadian steel.  American steel comes overly coated in oil and rusted up...almost like it sits out in the rain, the oil eventually washes off, steel rusts, gets oiled again, repeat...


The large quantity of steel that can be put on a ship plus the huge price difference actually makes it very worthwhile.
 
2017-03-24 11:10:51 AM  

IntelDataDude: dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.

Are you paid by the Trump administration or are you one of the Russian trolls? This pipeline is really meant to move the Alberta tar sand oil which needs to have oil prices at over $88 a barrel to be profitable (last report I saw). It is so unprofitable that the Canadian government gave up on it. This is only about subsidizing the poor starving oil companies.


Where have you been?  Back in 2013 it was up around $90 a barrel.  It's down to $39 a barrel now:
http://economicdashboard.alberta.ca/OilPrice

(WCS = Western Canadian Select, which is basically tar sand oil blended with other distillates for ease of shipping).
 
2017-03-24 11:12:21 AM  

Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.


Yes for Canada (less chance of trains blowing up towns like Lac-Megantic). It doesn't do much for China, who could already get Canadian oil through the Trans-Mountain pipeline to BC/WA. Whatever they buy from Keystone XL is likely to be value-added refined products rather than raw crude.


jake_lex: It's great news for the 35 full time employees needed to run it after it's done.


It also gives your refiners an option to import less crude oil from foreign countries which want to destroy the USA and more from a country which is content to beat you at Olympic hockey. That has long-term advantages for everyone.
 
DarkVader  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:12:53 AM  

skeevy420: Splinthar: What about the steel we are buying from Russian owned companies? I mean normally I love all things "america's hat" but its pretty clear that Trump had no commitment to his domestic materials bullshiate.

As a steel worker in Arkansas....Almost all of the steel I buy comes from Canada and the rest from the US.  Wouldn't it cost too much to freight raw steel over the ocean?

And I prefer the Canadian steel.  American steel comes overly coated in oil and rusted up...almost like it sits out in the rain, the oil eventually washes off, steel rusts, gets oiled again, repeat...


I don't know if it's still true, but years ago I was dating someone who worked in the scrap metal industry.  She said China was buying virtually all of the scrap steel they collected.  They shredded it, loaded it in train cars, and shipped it to the west coast, where it got loaded in ships.

If it's not too expensive to ship scrap steel...
 
2017-03-24 11:12:56 AM  

sparks2021: Highroller48: Archidude: BafflerMeal: I predict posts in this thread from true blue Democrats who argued *for* the XL pipeline last year, expressing outrage.

What Democrats were arguing for this pipeline?

I'm guessing any Dems from the states that are on the planned route.

Those were probably the most vocal against it. Even Republicans from those states were often against it given that it was taking their land and the risk to their water supply


Interesting.  I didn't really follow the nuts and bolts of this in the U.S., other than the toing and froing by the various campaigns.
 
skeevy420  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:14:17 AM  

Highroller48: skeevy420: Splinthar: What about the steel we are buying from Russian owned companies? I mean normally I love all things "america's hat" but its pretty clear that Trump had no commitment to his domestic materials bullshiate.

As a steel worker in Arkansas....Almost all of the steel I buy comes from Canada and the rest from the US.  Wouldn't it cost too much to freight raw steel over the ocean?

And I prefer the Canadian steel.  American steel comes overly coated in oil and rusted up...almost like it sits out in the rain, the oil eventually washes off, steel rusts, gets oiled again, repeat...

The large quantity of steel that can be put on a ship plus the huge price difference actually makes it very worthwhile.


If the steel is better than the American produced shiat....I don't really care where it comes from.

I feel like there's a Union joke somewhere in all of this...
 
2017-03-24 11:14:18 AM  

DarkVader: No, it isn't going to get to the refineries one way or the other.

If it's too expensive to transport, it's going to stay in the ground where it belongs.


It's going to stay in the ground until oil prices go up, the same way the oil industry has worked since it was first discovered.
 
2017-03-24 11:15:18 AM  

dittybopper: IntelDataDude: dittybopper: Diogenes: Great news for Canada, China, and Russia.

Actually, it's *BAD* news for Russia.

Russia is an oil and gas exporting state.  In fact, that is its main source of foreign income.  Things like this help keep oil and gas prices low by decreasing the cost to transport gas and oil.   It costs about $5 a barrel to transport a barrel of oil by pipeline, vs. $10 to $15 a barrel to transport it via rail.  Keeping the price low by lowering the cost to transport, and transporting more of it (thus making more available),  *HURTS* Russia by limiting the amount of cash they get per unit of oil or gas.

Are you paid by the Trump administration or are you one of the Russian trolls? This pipeline is really meant to move the Alberta tar sand oil which needs to have oil prices at over $88 a barrel to be profitable (last report I saw). It is so unprofitable that the Canadian government gave up on it. This is only about subsidizing the poor starving oil companies.

Where have you been?  Back in 2013 it was up around $90 a barrel.  It's down to $39 a barrel now:
http://economicdashboard.alberta.ca/OilPrice

(WCS = Western Canadian Select, which is basically tar sand oil blended with other distillates for ease of shipping).


Meh. No one believes the price is gonna stay low.  This is a long-term project, and the companies are looking ahead at those stronger prices, not the weak ones of today.
 
2017-03-24 11:15:23 AM  
"I'm deeply concerned about the impact of this project on a bunch of red states I hate and will never visit."

Signed,

Concerned Progressives
 
skeevy420  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-03-24 11:15:52 AM  

DarkVader: If it's not too expensive to ship scrap steel...


Oddly enough, the smaller pieces of scrap steel are the more valuable pieces.  "Short steel" usually nets an extra 10-20% at the scrap yard.
 
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