Does boxing penalize these techniques?

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

John Kavanagh has mentioned that the clinch may be an important part of Conor's strategy due to his superior experience there.

What if Conor did something like what Jon did to Glover:

Or used (non-flashy) Greco Roman upper body only throws.

Both might be plausible because they are all subtle movements. How would you even stipulate against such movements from "normal" movements in the clinch?

EDIT: Some thoughts along the same lines from Pat Miletich.

"I'm training a fighter going into that fight to cheat within the rules the entire fight."

"Get two warnings for everything you could possibly do before a point, and look, if you get a point taken you get a point taken, you're not going to win on the cards anyway."

"So the more he can put his hands on him, push down on his forearms, just off-balance him, block a leg here, push with your head, off balance and crack him, just turn it into a rough and tumble anaerobic type existence, that's when Mayweather will get tired, that's when he'll get fatigued."

GreatSaintGuillotine · Jul 25, 2017

Not allowed dude. You can't clinch someone like that and intentionally trap their limbs. If you do that and try to jerk them around or fuck with their joints you'll lose points and eventually get DQ'd (unlikely to get DQ'd for jerking them around but possible). Throws are also extremely illegal no matter what.

MMA clinches don't transfer over to boxing.

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

Why not do the shoulder crank since you're extremely unlikely to get DQ'd or even penalized the first time you do it and if you tear their shoulder (as Jon did) it would change the whole fight?

GreatSaintGuillotine · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
Why not do the shoulder crank since you're extremely unlikely to get DQ'd or even penalized the first time you do it and if you tear their shoulder (as Jon did) it would change the whole fight?

If you tear their shoulder then you are 100% getting DQ'd. Jerking them around won't get you DQ'd but intentional joint damage will. They'll penalize the shit out of you for both.

BGDDYKWL · Jul 25, 2017

Conor can manipulate the clinch with some borderline tactics, I have zero doubt about this. Might only get away with it once or twice, but it's enough to get in Floyd's head. That's the main thing.

Head Movement · Jul 25, 2017

don't think thats allowed, but Conor should go for it anyway, doesn't really matter if the ref takes away points, since he basically has no chance to win by points.

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

Some Greco Roman "throws" from the clinch aren't really even throws, they're just positioning your base better to unbalance your opponent. For example:

If throws are too explicit, imagine if Conor unbalances Floyd from every clinch, and trains explicitly to catch him during the separation when Floyd is unbalanced.

It is hard to imagine how any ref can penalize unbalancing the opponent from the clinch.

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

Head Movement said:
don't think thats allowed, but Conor should go for it anyway, doesn't really matter if the ref takes away points, since he basically has no chance to win by points.

That's a good point.

Conor would rationally do everything short of getting DQ'd to get the KO.

Also, as an MMA guy, no one would blame him for trying stuff and would probably even celebrate him for it.

Silverstar17 · Jul 25, 2017

So would Conor fanboys be proud if he won by cheating?

And a little cheating won't do the trick. He would have to cheat a lot.

Would be pathetic to say the least and pure embarasment for MMA. I hope he does nothing like this. It would show horrrible character.

If you want to box him, box him.

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

Silverstar17 said:
So would Conor fanboys be proud if he won by cheating?

And a little cheating won't do the trick. He would have to cheat a lot.

Would be pathetic to say the least and pure embarasment for MMA. I hope he does nothing like this. It would show horrrible character.

If you want to box him, box him.

I'm not sure if I qualify as a Conor fanboy, but I think I would actually think quite highly of Conor (and also be greatly entertained) if he used crazy tricks and somehow succeeds where forty something others have failed.

If Conor was a boxer, I would feel as you described, but he isn't. When the odds are so stacked against a person, you admire that person for exploiting every opportunity to win. Also keep in mind that there's a difference between exploiting the rules and cheating.

Silverstar17 · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
I'm not sure if I qualify as a Conor fanboy, but I think I would actually think quite highly of Conor (and also be greatly entertained) if he used crazy tricks and somehow succeeds where forty something others have failed.

If Conor was a boxer, I would feel as you described, but he isn't. When the odds are so stacked against a person, you admire that person for exploiting every possible opportunity to win.

I disagree. He wants to box him. That's what he gets paid for. And quite a bit. He is not being forced to do it. He chooses to do it. So he should do it like it's supposed to be done. Like a real man.

If you need to cheat to win your win means nothing and it shows poor character.

A little dirty work is normal. But the things you suggested are just pathetic.

Nothing to be admired.

UhHuhSure · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
Some Greco Roman "throws" from the clinch aren't really even throws, they're just positioning your base better to unbalance your opponent. For example:

If throws are too explicit, imagine if Conor unbalances Floyd from every clinch, and trains explicitly to catch him during the separation when Floyd is unbalanced.

It is hard to imagine how any ref can penalize unbalancing the opponent from the clinch.

Horn tried using a Judo trip against Manny a few times in their fight. I think if Conor does some dirty MMA shit he should get DQ'd and fined.

djacobox372 · Jul 25, 2017

The clinch in boxing and MMA couldn't be more different, if anything that will be the position that conor will be the most out of sorts. Clinch positions in MMA involve defending against takedowns, knees, elbows, trips, etc... none of that is allowed in boxing, so conor's instincts in the clinch will betray him.

The only advantage he has in a clinch is being bigger and maybe a little stronger, but floyds technique in a boxing clinch will be lightyears beyond Conors.

Gearc10 · Jul 25, 2017

Silverstar17 said:
I disagree. He wants to box him. That's what he gets paid for. And quite a bit. He is not being forced to do it. He chooses to do it. So he should do it like it's supposed to be done. Like a real man.

If you need to cheat to win your win means nothing and it shows poor character.

A little dirty work is normal. But the things you suggested are just pathetic.

Nothing to be admired.

There's no difference between what he's suggesting and Floyd sticking his elbows in peoples face...actually what Floyd does is far worse.

GreatSaintGuillotine · Jul 25, 2017

Gearc10 said:
There's no difference between what he's suggesting and Floyd sticking his elbows in peoples face...actually what Floyd does is far worse.

Pushing on someone's face with your forearm is not as bad as trying to tear someones shoulder. Floyd is bad about the forearms at time, yes, but for the most part he just pushes people away with them. What he is suggesting is straight up cheating and trying to tear Floyd's shoulder so he can't fight.

elwani · Jul 25, 2017

GreatSaintGuillotine said:
Pushing on someone's face with your forearm is not as bad as trying to tear someones shoulder. Floyd is bad about the forearms at time, yes, but for the most part he just pushes people away with them. What he is suggesting is straight up cheating and trying to tear Floyd's shoulder so he can't fight.

No one's suggesting cheating, just look at the thread title. It's about what Conor can get away with within the rules of boxing (and whatever is in the contract) to try to win. If he wins, by definition he has stayed within the rules.

Now there might be an argument that he might be violating the "spirit" of the rules of boxing if he does something unprecedented that helps him win without getting DQ'd. But that's a slippery slope, easily colored by a person's opinions about the different sports, combatants, or anything new.

Keep in mind when Jon did the shoulder crank, a lot of people felt like he was cheating, probably because it's Jon and they haven't seen something like that before. Many people probably still feel the same about Jon's elliptical kicks. But really if you don't like them, you should blame the rules, not the combatant.

ClckwrkOra · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
John Kavanagh has mentioned that the clinch may be an important part of Conor's strategy due to his superior experience there.

What if Conor did something like what Jon did to Glover:

Or used (non-flashy) Greco Roman upper body only throws.

Both might be plausible because they are all subtle movements. How would you even stipulate against such movements from "normal" movements in the clinch?

Dana has said McGregor faces big financial penalties for using non-boxing fight tactics.

GreatSaintGuillotine · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
No one's suggesting cheating, just look at the thread title. It's about what Conor can get away with within the rules of boxing (and whatever is in the contract) to try to win. If he wins, by definition he has stayed within the rules.

Now there might be an argument that he might be violating the "spirit" of the rules of boxing if he does something unprecedented that helps him win without getting DQ'd. But that's a slippery slope, easily colored by a person's opinions about the different sports, combatants, or anything new.

Keep in mind when Jon did the shoulder crank, a lot of people felt like he was cheating, probably because it's Jon and they haven't seen something like that before. Many people probably still feel the same about Jon's elliptical kicks. But really if you don't like them, you should blame the rules, not the combatant.

Sorry didn't mean to sound accusatory. Just phrased that poorly.

But yeah, Conor can't do the shoulder roll because they can legit DQ him for that. Jerking Floyd around in the clinch will get him penalized and will cause Conor to take a lot of unnecessary damage (Like in the Hatton and Maidana fights). It's not a smart move.

The issue with Jones is that he knows that they are illegal or generally dirty career ending tactics and does them anyway. He exploits the rules at the risk of ending someone's career. A different matter that is equally as shitty.

Using these tactics in boxing straight up won't fly. So it'd be best for him to try to find other rules to use in his favor.

JuanSmaqaho · Jul 25, 2017

elwani said:
John Kavanagh has mentioned that the clinch may be an important part of Conor's strategy due to his superior experience there.

What if Conor did something like what Jon did to Glover:

Or used (non-flashy) Greco Roman upper body only throws.

Both might be plausible because they are all subtle movements. How would you even stipulate against such movements from "normal" movements in the clinch?

Since when does Conor have more experience in the clinch in boxing?

JuanSmaqaho · Jul 25, 2017

Also due to the fact that wrestling is against the rules in boxing he could very easily be disqualified and fined if he did a shoulder crank on Floyd and caused him to be injured and unable to continue.

Does boxing penalize these techniques?

Banned

You may not like what I say but it's the truth.

Banned

You may not like what I say but it's the truth.

Black Belt

Purple Belt

Banned

Banned

Red Belt

Banned

Red Belt

Brown Belt

Steel Belt

Purple Belt

You may not like what I say but it's the truth.

Banned

Purple Belt

You may not like what I say but it's the truth.

Purple Belt

Purple Belt

Similar threads

Forum statistics

Share this page