Are my coaches assholes?

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FUm6duck

Purple Belt
@purple
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So, Im a white belt who recently tore my acl and a bunch of other ligaments and tendons. I also have some nerve damage. Injury occurred because I was rolling with a blue belt who decided to pull jumping guard and my knee gave out. After that, they pulled me off the mat to continue training. The bjj coach did check up on me after and offered to drive me home but I kind of refused in shock. He left soon after and had some fellow students look after me. The main gym's coach saw me injure myself and went on with teaching his muay thai class. Facebook messaged him today detailing what happened and asked to cancel my gym membership. There's a notification he saw my message but has completely ignored it. What do you guys think?
 
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Third time I’ve seen this teacher/coach/instructor being unprofessional issue come up. Remember you signed a contract when you joined the school releasing them from any liability. Pretty common with every school. They don’t want to get sued if you get hurt. Why were you in shock when your coach offered you a ride home? You probably could not drive. If he checked up on you that was the right thing to do.

My experience in Martial Arts when you get hurt is that you are pretty much on your own to take care of the injury. You knew that, or should have known that going in. All my years of training and cross training, I pretty much took care of myself when injured. Not sure what you were expecting them to do. Where you able to call family or a friend? I would not have Facebooked him about the incident or canceling the membership. That’s something you need to do face-to-face, plus if you signed a 1 year membership, you usually have to pay a fine to cancel the membership. Were you already injured prior to training? The class and the world is not going to stop because you got injured.
 
Did you ask to cancel because you felt you weren't treated properly or because you are injured and won't be able to train? If it's the latter then you might be able to freeze the contract for some time. If it's the former then tbh I am not sure what you really expected them to do. Maybe they should have asked you if you wanted to go to the hospital or something but I guess it depends on how you were reacting.

Either way I'd talk to them in person or call them instead of Facebook message. Sucks to hear your knee got fucked up and hope the recovery goes well
 
You can't sign away your right to sue. You signed the agreement in good faith that this asshole was going to be professional, teaching safely in the best modern method. Jumping guard is a low brow, ignorant move for spazzes and assholes.

If someone busted your knee doing something ignorant that should have been beat out of them by their instructor, than the agreement not to sue is void and you should get a lawyer. I hate assholes.

It might not just be the jumpers fault. He shouldn't have been allowed to jump unless the instructor thought you were so well trained that this couldn't happen.
 
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Phr3121 said:
Third time I’ve seen this teacher/coach/instructor being unprofessional issue come up. Remember you signed a contract when you joined the school releasing them from any liability. Pretty common with every school. They don’t want to get sued if you get hurt. Why were you in shock when your coach offered you a ride home? You probably could not drive. If he checked up on you that was the right thing to do.

My experience in Martial Arts when you get hurt is that you are pretty much on your own to take care of the injury. You knew that, or should have known that going in. All my years of training and cross training, I pretty much took care of myself when injured. Not sure what you were expecting them to do. Where you able to call family or a friend? I would not have Facebooked him about the incident or canceling the membership. That’s something you need to do face-to-face, plus if you signed a 1 year membership, you usually have to pay a fine to cancel the membership. Were you already injured prior to training? The class and the world is not going to stop because you got injured.
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I would think think contract is null when my leg literally bends the other way, and I cant walk for 1+ years. Pretty much why I was in shock; think anderson silva's
injury but to the knee joint.

Every fitness and martial arts gym Ive ever went to a had thing where you can cancel a membership due to injury especially if it's on their premises.

I was looking for some empathy from the coaches and maybe an ambulance called? And maybe tell your fucken white and blue belts not to do jumping guard. Iuno if you know how douchey that move is.

Ive also been in a gym where a guy got his teeth knocked out, and we all pooled together money to pay for reconstructive surgery. Im not expecting anyone to pay for my shit. But empathy goes a long way.
 
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Minnja said:
Did you ask to cancel because you felt you weren't treated properly or because you are injured and won't be able to train? If it's the latter then you might be able to freeze the contract for some time. If it's the former then tbh I am not sure what you really expected them to do. Maybe they should have asked you if you wanted to go to the hospital or something but I guess it depends on how you were reacting.

Either way I'd talk to them in person or call them instead of Facebook message. Sucks to hear your knee got fucked up and hope the recovery goes well
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Thanks man. Im kinda pissed the manager didnt check up on me and acted like nothing happened and went on teaching the muay thai class. Asked to cancel the contract because it looks likely my knee wont allow me to do bjj again. Youre right though; I need to go see them.
 
SummerStriker said:
You can't sign away your right to sue.
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I don’t know ‘Striker’, it seems pretty clear to me…

In the contract:
“I recognize the risks of injury that are common to any performing arts program that my child or I participate in and I do hereby waive and release the Company from and against any and all claims, actions, causes of action, damages, costs, liabilities, expense of judgments, including attorney's fees and court costs, that arise out of my participation in this program. I hereby execute this Waiver and Release form permitting my minor child and / or myself to participate in the Company's program.”

These forms sometimes do not hold up in court because (supposedly) no one can sign their rights away not to sue in case of serious injury. To address this problem schools (and tournaments) use an “assumption of the risk” form. The rule of law follows this pattern: “If you knew the danger and you did it anyway and you got hurt because of the danger you knew about, then you cannot sue." Physicians have patients sign documents after the doctor informs them of the danger of surgery. It’s called “informed consent”, an assumption of the risk and it seems to stand up in court.

I personally think that if schools did not make you sign the form they would be out of business fast. Why take the risk of being sued?
 
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Seems like they dont really care that much and only just want money. Honestly though if you havent been with the school too long not all gyms are going to treat you well. I see that you are a white belt so reaction would be different as opposed to a purple or brown. But either way fuck that school, jumping guard is how one of my friends broke his shin bone too.
 
…anyway, I’m sorry about your injury ‘Fum6duck’. I think the video below shows what I think happened to you. Not sure about the circumstances. What level White Belt are you? How big are you? How old and how big was the Blue Belt? Not a move I would practice on a White Belt, that’s why I’m curious as to why it was done to you. Either way, I think you are done with that school.

Just some thoughts on the matter. I was kneed in the balls by a White Belt just last week. It was a girl and I’m sure it was not intentional. Thankfully it was not a hard hit. I broke my nose years ago in Tae Kwon-Do while practicing with a friend of mine. It was an accident and I blame myself for the injury since I missed blocking a kick to the face. A kick I knew was coming. Injuries do happen when you practice but I truly believe the majority, when done by others, are not done on purpose and are mostly accidents. If it is on purpose than we are talking a whole other story.

I don’t think your instructor had anything to do with it. The Blue Belt is the one you should be focusing on. Is he/she an ‘asshole’ in training? Have you been with the school long enough to tell? Just remember, BJJ is a contact sport.

 
I am sorry you got hurt like this. It is probably better to deal with cancellations and these types of thing in person if possible. Since you are not happy with how they handled the situation you don't have to deal with them again after you cancel your membership. You will be gone for awhile and can find another school if you ever decide to give bjj another chance. Best of luck with your recovery.
 
SummerStriker said:
You can't sign away your right to sue. You signed the agreement in good faith that this asshole was going to be professional, teaching safely in the best modern method.
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Plenty of people let their students do dangerous stuff in training like guard jumps and heel hooks on lower belts.
It's the coaches fault in that he didn't explain that the main priorities in bjj standup is not trying some stupid judo move but staying out of range of closed guard jumpers.
 
Look up the health club laws in your state if you need to get out of your contract due to injury like this. It's usually covered.

I don't see any true negligence on the instructors' part. I don't like closed guard jumping either, but it's legal at all belt levels under most rules. So it's really not out of left field.

It's better they didn't call an ambulance for you. That would be a bill in the hundreds (sometimes thousands) that you don't need. A ride to the hospital is fine for this stuff. And it sounds like that was offered to you. If you decline, there's not a whole lot else they can do to make you go.

You'll get the contract cancelled one way or another in this type of situation. Sorry about your leg, and good luck with your recovery.
 
Sorry to hear of your situation. I've had injuries happen in classes I teach, as well as classes I've been in . Two of those instances were torn ACLs although neither of them involved the visual spectacle of the leg bent backwards. In both cases the class basically ended there, not our of sympathy or respect, but because the person was literally howling in pain and needed to be taken care of. I think in both cases they got a ride home or to the hospital, in one case the guy called his wife to pick him up and in the other case the woman's boyfriend was also in the class. I had a guy fracture his leg and another dislocate his thumb in my class, and we went on with the class for everyone else (I didn't know the extent of the injury at the time).

You should be able to freeze the contract. As far as the rest, that's up to you. I've only ever gotten "how are you doing" calls/texts when nobody has seen me for weeks, and mind you I've been training at my current place for 9 years and teaching for 6. I hope I don't sound like too much of a dick, but as far as the white belts who I teach (and train with if we're taking the same class), I don't know them that well unless they're serious students who show up every day, and in instances where they have gotten injured I haven't checked up on them while they are out. Then again, I don't run the academy and I'm really more of a student than an instructor.

Take that for whatever it's worth. I wouldn't take this whole situation too personally or let it stain your experience with training. Injuries happen a lot - I've had a few that kept me from really training for several months at a time. Veteran instructors are used to seeing their students get hurt, and if they're not personally close with that individual I wouldn't expect too much contact.
 
Phr3121 said:
…anyway, I’m sorry about your injury ‘Fum6duck’. I think the video below shows what I think happened to you. Not sure about the circumstances. What level White Belt are you? How big are you? How old and how big was the Blue Belt? Not a move I would practice on a White Belt, that’s why I’m curious as to why it was done to you. Either way, I think you are done with that school.

Just some thoughts on the matter. I was kneed in the balls by a White Belt just last week. It was a girl and I’m sure it was not intentional. Thankfully it was not a hard hit. I broke my nose years ago in Tae Kwon-Do while practicing with a friend of mine. It was an accident and I blame myself for the injury since I missed blocking a kick to the face. A kick I knew was coming. Injuries do happen when you practice but I truly believe the majority, when done by others, are not done on purpose and are mostly accidents. If it is on purpose than we are talking a whole other story.

I don’t think your instructor had anything to do with it. The Blue Belt is the one you should be focusing on. Is he/she an ‘asshole’ in training? Have you been with the school long enough to tell? Just remember, BJJ is a contact sport.

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Didnt focus on the blue belt because we were roughly the same size, and I felt my progression getting to his level. Our school has mostly white and blue belts with a few purple, so when a white belt gets close to getting promoted everyone watches the roll. I had hit a kimura on him and let go so I didn't break his arm. There was no malice on his part, just an overeager guy. I was just expecting the gym owner to come up and check on me or at least acknowledge my facebook message. Can't even drive right now to actually talk to him face to face, since it's my right leg that's busted.
 
Phr3121 said:
I don’t know ‘Striker’, it seems pretty clear to me…

In the contract:
“I recognize the risks of injury that are common to any performing arts program that my child or I participate in and I do hereby waive and release the Company from and against any and all claims, actions, causes of action, damages, costs, liabilities, expense of judgments, including attorney's fees and court costs, that arise out of my participation in this program. I hereby execute this Waiver and Release form permitting my minor child and / or myself to participate in the Company's program.”

These forms sometimes do not hold up in court because (supposedly) no one can sign their rights away not to sue in case of serious injury. To address this problem schools (and tournaments) use an “assumption of the risk” form. The rule of law follows this pattern: “If you knew the danger and you did it anyway and you got hurt because of the danger you knew about, then you cannot sue." Physicians have patients sign documents after the doctor informs them of the danger of surgery. It’s called “informed consent”, an assumption of the risk and it seems to stand up in court.

I personally think that if schools did not make you sign the form they would be out of business fast. Why take the risk of being sued?
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Wrong.

Your informed consent is always given under the assumption that the environment and coaching is modern, safe, and professional. Having someone blow your knee out jumping guard is a coaching failure. Either he wasn't trained to take the guard jump or the other guy wasn't instructed not to do it.

Only idiots and assholes blow strangers' knees out rolling with guard jumps. Only an idiot instructor has students doing it when he doesn't know if they are capable of doing it safely.

Even the guy jumping on him might be liable.

He should sue everyone.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
Sorry to hear of your situation. I've had injuries happen in classes I teach, as well as classes I've been in . Two of those instances were torn ACLs although neither of them involved the visual spectacle of the leg bent backwards. In both cases the class basically ended there, not our of sympathy or respect, but because the person was literally howling in pain and needed to be taken care of. I think in both cases they got a ride home or to the hospital, in one case the guy called his wife to pick him up and in the other case the woman's boyfriend was also in the class. I had a guy fracture his leg and another dislocate his thumb in my class, and we went on with the class for everyone else (I didn't know the extent of the injury at the time).

You should be able to freeze the contract. As far as the rest, that's up to you. I've only ever gotten "how are you doing" calls/texts when nobody has seen me for weeks, and mind you I've been training at my current place for 9 years and teaching for 6. I hope I don't sound like too much of a dick, but as far as the white belts who I teach (and train with if we're taking the same class), I don't know them that well unless they're serious students who show up every day, and in instances where they have gotten injured I haven't checked up on them while they are out. Then again, I don't run the academy and I'm really more of a student than an instructor.

Take that for whatever it's worth. I wouldn't take this whole situation too personally or let it stain your experience with training. Injuries happen a lot - I've had a few that kept me from really training for several months at a time. Veteran instructors are used to seeing their students get hurt, and if they're not personally close with that individual I wouldn't expect too much contact.
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Truth.

Nothing against you TS, but WBs come and go. Hard to keep track of them, and when injuries happen to people it's a weird out of sight out mind thing among grapplers. Nobody wants to see it because it could be them.

Best thing to do is bum a ride and stop in and speak to the owner/manager.
 
You are basing all of this off of the fact that your faceboook message comes up as seen and he hasnt responded within a few hours. If you swipe out of a facebook notification (I do this constantly while teaching or coaching) it shows up as seen. There are no gym owners who are going to get into contract law negotiations over facebook messenger.
 
Dirty Holt said:
You are basing all of this off of the fact that your faceboook message comes up as seen and he hasnt responded within a few hours. If you swipe out of a facebook notification (I do this constantly while teaching or coaching) it shows up as seen. There are no gym owners who are going to get into contract law negotiations over facebook messenger.
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Youre basing this off an assumption as did I. Fact is, this guy saw me injured. As I left, he made it a point to not look in my direction or even walk my way to say anything. Injury wasn't caused by me not tapping out or the other guy being a dick.
 
Balto said:
I don't like closed guard jumping either, but it's legal at all belt levels under most rules. So it's really not out of left field.
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It's not legal under IBJJF for white belts.
 
FUm6duck said:
Youre basing this off an assumption as did I. Fact is, this guy saw me injured. As I left, he made it a point to not look in my direction or even walk my way to say anything. Injury wasn't caused by me not tapping out or the other guy being a dick.
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If the bjj coach checked up on you did you need the main coach to check up on you too?
 
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