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(Scientific American)   "'Sonic weapon attacks' on U.S. Embassy don't add up -- for anyone"   (scientificamerican.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Traumatic brain injury, embassy employees, Hearing, State Department, Audiogram, Brain damage, Sound, Hearing impairment  
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9608 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2018 at 4:35 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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edmo [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (19)  
2018-02-19 3:50:24 PM  
"very sophisticated technology that does not exist in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world."

I'm not saying it's aliens...
 
Exluddite  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (1)  
2018-02-19 4:12:29 PM  
Hawkwind - Sonic Attack
Youtube LwRvWpsiM2w
 
RJReves  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (7)  
2018-02-19 4:23:38 PM  

edmo: "very sophisticated technology that does not exist in the U.S. or anywhere else in the world."

I'm not saying it's aliens...


Alien - Cyanide & Happiness Shorts
Youtube tCGgNjxMLmw
 
BalugaJoe  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2018-02-19 4:25:56 PM  
Get a foot long.
 
2018-02-19 4:38:50 PM  
The important thing is we can all rest easier knowing that cribbed headlines work out.
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2018-02-19 4:39:08 PM  
I love that the ad which happened to be on that page, for me, was for some sort of sonic washing device.
 
Trocadero  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (3)  
2018-02-19 4:40:11 PM  
Mass hysteria-Termed mass psychogenic illness by psychologists, mass hysteria has been suggested as the cause of the embassy employees' complaints. A group of people can share a psychological state. For example, seeing someone else vomit may make another person feel nauseated. But diplomats and State Department employees are selected and trained to function in high-stress environments-including countries at war. Rosenfarb has ruled out the possibility of enough stress to produce sickness from a hysterical reaction.

But what about dogs and cats living together? Perros y gatos viviendos juntos?
 
Cthulhukefka  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (13)  
2018-02-19 4:41:20 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2018-02-19 4:42:00 PM  
Just hand over the rings, and nobody gets hurt...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2018-02-19 4:44:03 PM  
Yeah, I'm going to go with contagious hypochondria on this one.
 
Salmon  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 4:45:28 PM  
Wtf?

Is scientific American a nut job site?
 
JDJoeE  
Smartest (21)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 4:46:56 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Yeah, I'm going to go with contagious hypochondria on this one.


Traumatic brain injuries are contagious now?
 
AirForceVet [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (11)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 4:49:12 PM  
Personally I thought the possibility of past injuries and aging patients a more plausible route to go.

Where were the State employees at before? Their past jobs and/or military experience? Not to question the State Department's integrity but the Cubans seem perplexed about this as much as Americans. So is something blamed on Cubans because it's easier to sell than really finding root cause?
 
jaggspb  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 4:51:14 PM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net
 
jaggspb  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (7)  
2018-02-19 4:52:23 PM  

jaggspb: [vignette.wikia.nocookie.net image 41x45]


wow bizarre image shrinkage.  water must have been cold.

/street fighter sonic boom
 
anuran [TotalFark]  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (1)  
2018-02-19 4:55:03 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Yeah, I'm going to go with contagious hypochondria on this one.


Except for the White matter damage
 
OkieDookie  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (15)  
2018-02-19 4:56:47 PM  
Does Yoko Ono's music count as a 'sonic attack'?
 
2018-02-19 4:57:08 PM  
Of course they don't add up.  Sound waves cancel out if they're more than 45 degrees out of phase.  Didn't you take physics in high school subby?
 
2018-02-19 4:57:44 PM  

AirForceVet: Personally I thought the possibility of past injuries and aging patients a more plausible route to go.

Where were the State employees at before? Their past jobs and/or military experience? Not to question the State Department's integrity but the Cubans seem perplexed about this as much as Americans. So is something blamed on Cubans because it's easier to sell than really finding root cause?


I live in Florida, and I get really painful headaches during hurricane season, that I don't get the rest of the year, and then only when there is a lot of storm activity.  I also have an old concussion, and once broke my nose, and the painful parts of my head, the pressure I feel seem to line up with those two old injuries.  I am not saying this is what is going on, but I wonder if the high air pressure we get before storms is causing all their old injuries, including injuries they did not know they had, to act up.
 
2018-02-19 5:00:08 PM  

JDJoeE: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Yeah, I'm going to go with contagious hypochondria on this one.

Traumatic brain injuries are contagious now?


These are CIA agents..,,who knows what shenanigans they got up to at the Playboy Mansions with Trump.

/I think it's probably a short duration psychotropic drug
 
adamatari  
Smartest (11)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:01:29 PM  
If it's a technology that someone is using, it exists somewhere in the world. Just because you don't know the tech doesn't mean it doesn't exist - just looking at historical Damascus steel, the process used still isn't exactly clear. In WWII, the Nazis built jet airplanes which no other country had, as well as medium range ballistic missles and cruise missiles (V1 and V2).

It's the height of hubris to assume you have the best tech or intelligence perfect enough to know all the tech of all of your enemies. Someone, somewhere, got the leg up on the US with a unique weapon technology. I would guess Russia or China but the only ones who know are the people doing it.
 
2018-02-19 5:02:04 PM  
Mass hysteria.  I've seen it happen.  Same result too.  It's like there was a conspiracy but everyone wasn't on the same page about what symptoms to report.  And then it just sort of quietly fades into history and everyone is fine and we move on, mystery still unsolved.
 
Luse  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (4)  
2018-02-19 5:02:08 PM  

puffy999: I love that the ad which happened to be on that page, for me, was for some sort of sonic washing device.


I seem to recall a German paper running a story on the Holocaust with ads for furnaces on the sides. Smart ads indeed.
 
2018-02-19 5:03:01 PM  
Creating discord between the USA and Cuba. Your answer in question format please.
 
2018-02-19 5:04:43 PM  

indifference_engine: Of course they don't add up.  Sound waves cancel out if they're more than 45 degrees out of phase.  Didn't you take physics in high school subby?


Correction: 90 degrees
 
doglover  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:06:03 PM  
Pshaw!  Batman was fighting againt a guy with one of these back in the 90's.
 
Trocadero  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2018-02-19 5:09:02 PM  

doglover: Pshaw!  Batman was fighting againt a guy with one of these back in the 90's.


heroichollywood.b-cdn.netView Full Size
 
orbister  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:10:52 PM  

JDJoeE: Traumatic brain injuries are contagious now?


Symptoms of them can be. As TFA says, MRI scans have shown no evidence of any physical injury.
 
2018-02-19 5:11:39 PM  
Buzzing fluorescent light fixtures, bad wiring, long hours, secured rooms. Once you get used to the sound, you simply tune it out...but you're still hearing it.

I'm not a doctor, but I'll take a look. Or, in this case, a listen.


Fark user imageView Full Size

http://www.randombio.com/fluorescent-lamp-interference.html
 
2018-02-19 5:14:48 PM  

indifference_engine: indifference_engine: Of course they don't add up.  Sound waves cancel out if they're more than 45 degrees out of phase.  Didn't you take physics in high school subby?

Correction: 90 degrees


Uh: 180 degrees.
 
Theaetetus  
Smartest (24)   Funniest (10)  
2018-02-19 5:17:15 PM  
Journalist: Unknown sonic weapon, but undetectable to known physics!
Physicist: It's microwaves. They cause tissue heating in the brain, which can result in visual and auditory hallucinations, which are why people think it's a 'sonic' weapon.
Journalist: Physicist thinks sonic weapons are hallucinations!
Physicist: No, sonic weapons of that sort don't exist.
Journalist: Physicist baffled by unknown sonic weapon technology!
 
2018-02-19 5:19:13 PM  

AirForceVet: Personally I thought the possibility of past injuries and aging patients a more plausible route to go.

Where were the State employees at before? Their past jobs and/or military experience? Not to question the State Department's integrity but the Cubans seem perplexed about this as much as Americans. So is something blamed on Cubans because it's easier to sell than really finding root cause?


Remember the Maine!
 
2018-02-19 5:21:02 PM  

dickrickulous: Creating discord between the USA and Cuba. Your answer in question format please.


Cuba is probably actually the least likely suspect, as they really want to fix our relations with their country.

Maybe an anti-Castro group in Miami, but even in their prime, when the Cubano community was united against the Castro's, it was hard for them to carry out major operations in Cuba.  Now most of Miami wants a better relationship, one where the Cuban people have economic freedom sure, but you get that by having Cuba work with America instead of against it at this point.

Russia might like to get the old band back together, but old International Communist Soviet Union was a much more likely alley, than Nationalist "We Hate Brown People" Russia under Putin.  Driving America apart wouldn't drive Cuba into Russia's camp.

China is an interesting country at first, until you remember that this isn't the 1960s, and China isn't looking to park a couple dozen ICBMs off the cape of Florida, in the hopes of screwing up relationships with its largest trading partner.

North Korea is petty enough to do this, and to them it simply might be enough to provoke America into the kind of knee jerk accusations that would remind the rest of the world that Americans are irrational.  "Look America is trying to play nice with Cuba, and bury the Hatchet, but they are so racist and paranoid that they are incapable of making peace with them.  North Korea would also like to make peace with the world, but evil America will not let us do so either."  My money is that if it is an attack, it is a North Korean operation.
 
Theaetetus  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:22:07 PM  
With all these articles constantly discussing a sonic weapon, I feel like NASA dealing with flat Earthers.
 
doglover  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2018-02-19 5:23:46 PM  

Theaetetus: With all these articles constantly discussing a sonic weapon, I feel like NASA dealing with flat Earthers.


Science journalism makes Flat Earthers look like godamned geniuses.
 
2018-02-19 5:23:48 PM  

Salmon: Wtf?

Is scientific American a nut job site?


In this case it seems that they'd have to be conspiring with Cuban crickets.
 
tangenti  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:24:04 PM  
Sonic weapons certainly exist... as in google it and you can find pictures of them and could buy one yourself with enough change.  And there is a body of evidence about low frequency and high frequency sound and their effects and utility as weapons.  Sound is just a pressure wave which can and does cause the skull to compress and/or translate energy into the brain tissue.

Sure maybe it was just a bad building air-conditioning unit or something unintentionally harmful, but it absurd to dismiss the idea that pressure waves can cause brain damage.
 
tangenti  
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2018-02-19 5:25:28 PM  

winedrinkingman: dickrickulous: Creating discord between the USA and Cuba. Your answer in question format please.

Cuba is probably actually the least likely suspect, as they really want to fix our relations with their country.

Maybe an anti-Castro group in Miami, but even in their prime, when the Cubano community was united against the Castro's, it was hard for them to carry out major operations in Cuba.  Now most of Miami wants a better relationship, one where the Cuban people have economic freedom sure, but you get that by having Cuba work with America instead of against it at this point.

Russia might like to get the old band back together, but old International Communist Soviet Union was a much more likely alley, than Nationalist "We Hate Brown People" Russia under Putin.  Driving America apart wouldn't drive Cuba into Russia's camp.

China is an interesting country at first, until you remember that this isn't the 1960s, and China isn't looking to park a couple dozen ICBMs off the cape of Florida, in the hopes of screwing up relationships with its largest trading partner.

North Korea is petty enough to do this, and to them it simply might be enough to provoke America into the kind of knee jerk accusations that would remind the rest of the world that Americans are irrational.  "Look America is trying to play nice with Cuba, and bury the Hatchet, but they are so racist and paranoid that they are incapable of making peace with them.  North Korea would also like to make peace with the world, but evil America will not let us do so either."  My money is that if it is an attack, it is a North Korean operation.


Yup.
 
jtown  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (10)  
2018-02-19 5:26:25 PM  
I cruised past the embassy last fall and nothing happened to me.  Would someone please answer that goddamn phone?!?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
Theaetetus  
Smartest (16)   Funniest (5)  
2018-02-19 5:26:58 PM  
Victim has hearing loss - consistent with microwave (temporal lobe heating), consistent with sonic weapon.
Loud noise heard by victim, not heard by others in room or picked up on microphones - consistent with microwave, not consistent with sonic weapon.
Noise goes away if victim moves a few feet - consistent with microwave, not consistent with sonic weapon. Victim gets headaches, nausea, "tingling" sensation - consistent with microwave, not consistent with sonic weapon.
Victim has long-lasting concentration, memory problems - consistent with microwave, not consistent with sonic weapon.
Victim has brain injury symptoms - consistent with microwave, not consistent with sonic weapon.

Journalist: "Must be a new unknown type of sonic weapon, probably Russian or Chinese in origin!"
 
Eravior  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (3)  
2018-02-19 5:26:58 PM  
Maybe they just didn't want to be stationed in Cuba.
 
doglover  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2018-02-19 5:28:36 PM  

tangenti: Sonic weapons certainly exist... as in google it and you can find pictures of them and could buy one yourself with enough change.  And there is a body of evidence about low frequency and high frequency sound and their effects and utility as weapons.  Sound is just a pressure wave which can and does cause the skull to compress and/or translate energy into the brain tissue.

Sure maybe it was just a bad building air-conditioning unit or something unintentionally harmful, but it absurd to dismiss the idea that pressure waves can cause brain damage.


The brown note generators don't work.
 
Theaetetus  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:29:24 PM  

tangenti: Sonic weapons certainly exist... as in google it and you can find pictures of them and could buy one yourself with enough change.  And there is a body of evidence about low frequency and high frequency sound and their effects and utility as weapons.  Sound is just a pressure wave which can and does cause the skull to compress and/or translate energy into the brain tissue.

Sure maybe it was just a bad building air-conditioning unit or something unintentionally harmful, but it absurd to dismiss the idea that pressure waves can cause brain damage.


Pressure waves certainly can cause brain damage - the vast majority of TBIs in soldiers are due to compression waves from nearby explosions, rather than actual impacts of debris. But this wasn't that. You can tell because the building is still standing.
 
covfefe [TotalFark]  
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2018-02-19 5:30:19 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: indifference_engine: indifference_engine: Of course they don't add up.  Sound waves cancel out if they're more than 45 degrees out of phase.  Didn't you take physics in high school subby?

Correction: 90 degrees

Uh: 180 degrees.


No, ideally they have to be 360 degrees out of phase.
 
2018-02-19 5:30:44 PM  
I would not be surprised to hear it is some kind kind of microwave radiation. Maybe Terahertz?  I'd also wager the "weapon" effects were side effects of something being used for surveillance, like a bistatic radar. You stand too close to a radar emitter, you cook yer insides.
 
doglover  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:33:16 PM  

Any Pie Left: I would not be surprised to hear it is some kind kind of microwave radiation. Maybe Terahertz?  I'd also wager the "weapon" effects were side effects of something being used for surveillance, like a bistatic radar. You stand too close to a radar emitter, you cook yer insides.


Fake news!

*ding*  Oh, hey, my popcorn's ready.
 
cirby  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:33:46 PM  
Odd that this article doesn't mention projects like MEDUSA - a way to make sounds inside someone's head with microwaves. They discount use of the structure near the embassy for a microwave attack, but there's a lot of different ways to go about that sort of thing.

They also say that ultrasound can't pass through walls - but it can pass through glass in a lot of situations. There are some clever ways to make very directional ultrasound projectors with equipment that doesn't look like speakers at all - planar speakers can generate sound that is incredibly directional by use of interference between sound waves. This is how HyperSonic Sound works.

Phased array speaker systems can also be very directional (up to a point). A very, very specialized array designed around a narrow band of frequencies could be quite long-ranged (but wouldn't manage the "hit one person in a room and not the other" effect).

It's probably something really basic and low-tech. We get so focused on high-end stuff, we forget to look for things like "someone fiddled with the plumbing to make ultrasound when someone's washing their hands."
 
kbronsito  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (7)  
2018-02-19 5:34:22 PM  
Cuba's sonic weapon may give you headaches and dizziness but America's sonic weapon gives you heart disease and diabetus

locations.sonicdrivein.comView Full Size
 
Theaetetus  
Smartest (10)   Funniest (0)  
2018-02-19 5:35:16 PM  

adamatari: It's the height of hubris to assume you have the best tech or intelligence perfect enough to know all the tech of all of your enemies. Someone, somewhere, got the leg up on the US with a unique weapon technology. I would guess Russia or China but the only ones who know are the people doing it.


No, again, this is not a sonic weapon. It's almost certainly a microwave transmission, and is highly likely to be a microwave version of The Thing: a passive listening device, inert and well hidden in the room and undetectable to sweeps when it's not charged. To turn it on, blast it with a beam of RF energy, which it resonates and retransmits... along with a signal representing what it picked up with a microphone.

The Thing was a microwave device at 330 MHz, low end of the range. With a wavelength of almost 1 meter, it wouldn't have intracranial resonances and wouldn't cause tissue heating. If this was closer to, say, 30 GHz (1 cm), you could easily get these effects.
 
2018-02-19 5:35:40 PM  

anuran: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Yeah, I'm going to go with contagious hypochondria on this one.

Except for the White matter damage


I think a sonic weapon is affecting your ability to read the article and the section about the previously reported white matter damage.
 
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