Ike Did 9/11
February 19, 2018 3:15 AM   Subscribe

 
There was a giant field of human excrement a few blocks upstream of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,

The current reality seems to have shifted things by a few blocks....
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [29 favorites]


Even better than I thought it would be! A couple of highlights:

Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) is today best-remembered as the inspiration for the name of Mallard Fillmore, the worst comic strip in human history.

Andrew Johnson (1865-1869) had strong feelings, such as, “This is a country for white men, and by God, as long as I am President, it shall be a government for white men.” Also, during a speech purportedly celebrating Washington’s Birthday — i.e., this holiday — Johnson mentioned himself over 200 times. It’s difficult today not to wonder if there’s a correlation between believing in white supremacy and constantly talking about yourself.

posted by TedW at 3:49 AM on February 19, 2018 [29 favorites]


According to Adams, “very few men who have no property, have any judgment of their own. They talk and vote as they are directed by some man of property, who has attached their minds to his interest.” The solution, said Adams, was massive property redistribution.

So, property owners have undue influence on public affairs and the answer is socialism? Why is this ghastly?

Oh, I see the actual title of the article states "VICIOUS, GHASTLY AND/OR FASCINATING"

I choose fascinating for this one!
posted by thedaniel at 4:01 AM on February 19, 2018 [28 favorites]




Some of these are incredibly lazy. All there is to say about Reagan is that he prefigured Trump?
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:19 AM on February 19, 2018 [9 favorites]


It's not even true. You don't have to like Reagan overall to concede that he could deliver an appealing speech and was even somewhat of a unifier, approved of in certain respects by some Democrats. Trump brings garbled incoherence and vicious divisiveness to a whole new level.
posted by Segundus at 4:42 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


Reading about that field of "night soil" seven blocks from the White House led me on a Google search that I now regret.

TIME-TRAVELERS, BY NO MEANS SHOULD YOU GO BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY
posted by JHarris at 5:04 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


Somewhere Paul Ryan is reading that night soil article and shedding a little tear for privatized sewage systems.
posted by COD at 5:14 AM on February 19, 2018 [18 favorites]


There’s so much you can say about Millard Fillmore after a simple skim of Wikipedia that it makes this listicle annoying. He was a nativist who allied himself with conspiracy-mongers and his Presidential campaign platform was founded on the principle that the Federal government did not have the power or right to prevent slavery. He supported the Fugitive Slave Act and legislative compromises that enlarged slaveholder territories. And throughout his political career he promoted himself as the anti-slavery candidate. He opposed Lincoln’s activities during the Civil War and supported Andrew Johnson’s Reconstruction programs.

If he was alive today he would be a garbage person in a MAGA cap, but the reasons why he is a perfect moral namesake for the Mallard Fillmore comic strip make a good story.
posted by ardgedee at 5:20 AM on February 19, 2018 [18 favorites]


Wow. Those quotes from Benjamin Harrison are unexpected. Can we get this guy to run in 2020?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [12 favorites]


The first entry has this disclaimer:

This is not 100 percent proven, but the evidence is, let’s say, highly suggestive.

OK, then why read the rest of the article.
posted by waving at 5:24 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


Every day I realize another glaring gap in my Civil War era education thanks to careful engineering by slavery apologists.

[The] "Hayes-Tilden Compromise. It was difficult to say who’d actually won the 1876 election, so the Republican Party agreed to withdraw all remaining federal troops from the South in return for Democrats accepting Hayes as president. Every promise of Reconstruction was betrayed."

Like, I knew the reconstruction "failed" not that it was blithely killed in a back room deal.
posted by abulafa at 5:32 AM on February 19, 2018 [33 favorites]


I am shocked! Something disappointing on the internet.
posted by Hobgoblin at 5:44 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Sorry Segundus, if you didn’t like Reagan, you didn't think he gave a great speech. He talked like a weird Sunday school teacher and/because certain segments of US society seemed to like that sort of thing.

He was a unifier only in the sense that blockhead Democrats were being steadily drawn to the right by tough talk. His smiling jingoism was designed to appeal to a generation that watched TV news every night, feeling impotent as their country lost a war in Viet Nam - and more recently had sat through a year or so of Iran hostage humiliation.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:05 AM on February 19, 2018 [19 favorites]


.....Guys, you did see how if you have better/more facts, you can leave them in the comments?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:07 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


Worth remembering The Intercept is run by a burning trash fire of a human being.

Also, Roosevelt did 9/11, as they so eloquently put it, by signing the Quincy Agreement. Where do you stop?
posted by opsin at 6:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [9 favorites]


Kind of weird, dumb and click-baity. If you're going to go after the Johnsons for racism, why not Wilson and, yes, Lincoln? And "but Hoover did a nice thing for the Russians before he was actually in office" is the weirdest sort of counterfactualism. And I'm not going to bother with the comments, since this was such a lazy effort in the first place--skimming the comments reveals that they originally had Harding as "William" Harding, FFS.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


If you want a more rounded humorous discussion of various presidents, you could try Alexis Coe and Elliott Kalan's Presidents are People Too podcast.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:27 AM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


That said, some of the earlier ones were interesting as a Brit, the era of the crap pond fits nicely with the 99pi episodes about Chicago building a sewer system and the like that I've done recently. That sort of civil engineering wasn't a thing I'd considered about American cities, with European cities being of an age that all that happened quite differently.
posted by opsin at 6:28 AM on February 19, 2018


I have a Lincoln "fact" that starts on Wikipedia: One popularly repeated story from Lincoln's Black Hawk War service illustrates Lincoln's qualities of honesty, and courageous, competent leadership. It involves a Potawotami who wandered into Captain Lincoln's camp. Lincoln's men assumed him a spy and wanted to kill him. The story goes that Lincoln threw himself between the Native American and the men's muskets, knocking their weapons upward and protecting the Potawotami. The militia men backed down after a few heated seconds.

Except the Potawatomi were allied with the US Army during the Black Hawk War (or at the very least they were as neutral as possible) and Potawatomi chief Billy Caldwell passed a resolution declaring that any Potawatomi who supported Black Hawk would be considered a traitor to his tribe and chiefs Shabonna and Waubonsie told Black Hawk that the Potawatomi and the British would not come to his aid. So there's no way a Potawatomi would have been a spy and Lincoln knew that. I mean I guess it was nice that he saved a Native from being killed, especially in the "only good Indian is a dead Indian" era, but ultimately he just protected an ally like any decent military leader should have.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:37 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


Nobody prefigured Trump, he’s sui generis, or Christ, I hope so anyway.
posted by Segundus at 7:01 AM on February 19, 2018


Also I do regret that MVB came along before color film because I would kill to see this fancy man (and also I WANT THOSE GLOVES):

An observer of an early Van Buren campaign stop at a church remembered him like this: “He wore an elegant snuff-colored broadcloth coat, with velvet collar to match; his cravat was orange tinted silk with modest lace tips; his vest was of pearl hue; his trousers were white duck … his nicely fitting gloves were yellow kid.”

There are a few people named named for Martin Van Buren in my family tree, which is amusing enough, but even more amusing are the number of people, not just in MY family tree, but all over the damn country who were named for William Henry Harrison, our president of one month. I have an ancestor I'm trying to research whose name is William Harrison Weld (who may or may not be one of those Welds) and there are a damn lot of William Harrisons out there who are making my research a hell of a lot more difficult.

Finally, that Andrew Jackson fact is fucking disgusting. Just like Andrew Jackson himself. I hope he's rotting in hell where he belongs.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:02 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Amazing president facts! SUBSCRIBE:
Did you know? The movie Dave was inspired by the incredible true story of famous President Eisenhower and heartthrob actor James Dean. At night, when the famous president wished to leave his duties behind, he would put on a rubber James Dean mask and speed away in his Porsche 550 Spyder. But before he left the White House driveway, he would install James Dean (wearing a rubber Ike mask) in his stead. When President Eisenhower crashed his glamorous sports car, James Dean was forced to wear the rubber Ike mask for five more years while governing the USA like a responsible maverick. It took a wildcard like Dean to coin the phrase "military-industrial complex" in his goodbye address — which was written in secret, and delivered over the sounds of record scratches and jaw drops.

Did you know? Richard Nixon refused to use any toilet seat that wasn't one of those weird, cushy 1970s toilet seats that had like a thick, gross vinyl covering over a foam core — and he insisted on decorating the White House bathrooms with deep-pile wall-to-wall carpeting. In spite of the years of carpet damage wrought by Nixon's notoriously bad aim, Gerald Ford refused to redecorate the bathrooms. Jimmy Carter's first official act as president was to rip up the carpets and install normal toilet seats. This so angered former California governor and foam-seat-enthusiast Ronald Reagan that he ran for president in 1980. After winning the election, he ordered Carter's solar panels removed from the White House roof in an act of retribution. In their place is a grid of cushy foam toilet seats.

Did you know? William "Mountain" McKinley was posthumously renamed "President Denali" by the Democrats. This was part of an omnibus legislative package that also required Blu-Ray releases of Dirty Harry to be retitled Due Process Harold. The famous line "Do you feel lucky, punk?" has now been re-dubbed with "You look nice today."
Don't forget to like and subscribe for more amazing PRESIDENT FACTS!
posted by compartment at 7:03 AM on February 19, 2018 [46 favorites]


On Garfield/Arthur, I've never, ever read that Garfield's shooting was specifically aimed at getting a Stalwart into power; I've seen a lot of motivations suggested for Guiteau (who also stalked Grant!), but not that one.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:21 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I am fully on board for President Denali.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:21 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I used to be a presidential history nerd before the election and this could have been done so much better. Less lazy ass, anyway.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


If you want an extraordinary history of the presidency I cannot recommend the Presidential podcast enough. Super well done and researched and very entertaining as well.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:00 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


On Garfield/Arthur, I've never, ever read that Garfield's shooting was specifically aimed at getting a Stalwart into power; I've seen a lot of motivations suggested for Guiteau (who also stalked Grant!), but not that one.

He literally said "I am a Stalwart. Arthur is president now" as he shot him.

This could be apocryphal I suppose, but it certainly clears the bar as a "suggestion" for his motivation.
posted by mark k at 8:01 AM on February 19, 2018


Denali is not a river in Egypt.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:13 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


If you're going after Grant, surely exiling and then creating internment camps for Jewish people belongs on the list ahead of "African Americans voted for him." (Which is important and interesting. . . but hardly ghastly.)

And, if you're going after Jackson, the most obvious and vocal genocidal monster of American history, and you pick out some penny-ante war story involving a hand full of combatants seeking revenge. . . what the fuck? You aren't even trying any more.

On the ranked list of ghastly facts about US presidents, these are somewhere around page 20.
posted by eotvos at 8:19 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]


Barack Obama, as a small child, did not prevent General Suharto from butchering many Indonesians
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:24 AM on February 19, 2018 [22 favorites]


On Garfield/Arthur, I've never, ever read that Garfield's shooting was specifically aimed at getting a Stalwart into power; I've seen a lot of motivations suggested for Guiteau (who also stalked Grant!), but not that one.

He was shot by committed nativists for his strong pro-lasagna stance.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


He literally said "I am a Stalwart. Arthur is president now" as he shot him.

I thought it was "You're next, Chester A. Arthur."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:35 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


I'd never heard that Guiteau line before, but fair enough.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:39 AM on February 19, 2018


I've always believed there was something about the US Presidency like those novelty coffee mugs that say, "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO WORK HERE...BUT IT HELPS!!!" Obama and maybe Carter are the only Presidents in my lifetime I can really think of as stable adults.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:41 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


Also, Dandy van Buren is the only Prez who can't trace his lineage back to King John of England.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:43 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


It was all worth it for the JFK video.
posted by Sphinx at 8:48 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


TIL I learned a lot of presidents died because of poo germs.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:58 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Nobody prefigured Trump, he’s sui generis, or Christ, I hope so anyway.

Sewer generant?
posted by anothermug at 8:59 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


history is all about dying from poo germs
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:11 AM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


He was shot by committed nativists for his strong pro-lasagna stance.

James Garfield was, in fact, shot on a Monday. Coincidence? See also: Kate Beaton.

Also too, since people are still talking about the poo, I should mention that one of the fun facts that the Ford's Theatre staff share (to the audible delight of various schoolchildren) was the stupendous funk of the Washington City Canal of that era, so bad during the summer that the Lincolns would escape to a cottage some distance away from the general miasma.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


James Madison (1809-1817) was America’s shortest president at just 5 foot 4, perhaps due to bad nutrition

Wow, screw you, The Intercept. I'm 5 4, and I'd hardly call that an awful fact.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 9:21 AM on February 19, 2018 [15 favorites]


Your height is fascinating.
posted by asperity at 9:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]


The good news is the teeth weren’t stolen, although the suppliers only received one-third of the market rate.

No. When you buy body parts from people you own you are stealing them. The fact you ripped them off proves it.
posted by Mitheral at 9:26 AM on February 19, 2018 [14 favorites]


I mean at this point this post has value only because people are pointing out how shit the list is. I'm learning more from the comments on this post than from the list itself. Factual inaccuracies, not listing things that really are ghastly/fascinating etc. I'm also shocked that they couldn't find something more ghastly for Reagan I mean... It's Reagan!
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:36 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


Ah, the Intercept, they couldn't help but get in a "every problem with Russia is in fact the US' fault" dig even in their clickbait list.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:40 AM on February 19, 2018 [11 favorites]


That one sticks out, yes. Weirdly the Obama one isn't about the inherent futility of fighting Al Queda.

I like the Trump one, FWIW.
posted by Artw at 9:44 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


That Grover Cleveland rape story is awful, particularly the follow-on of trying to bury the victim in an insane asylum. Is this version of the story consensus history now? It's pretty hard to believe the cover story of the time that Cleveland nobly claimed a child that was not his.
posted by Nelson at 9:47 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


Reagan, one time head of SAG who arguably owed the presidency to his time there, pulled off one of the biggest Fuck you; I've got mines ever perpetrated.
posted by Mitheral at 9:48 AM on February 19, 2018 [11 favorites]


Is this version of the story consensus history now?

The only references to it that I can find all link back to Lachman's article; he's a former executive producer at Inside Edition, however much credibility that gives him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:26 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Of all the possible ways you could attack Bill Clinton, The Intercept takes a swing at him for his role in ending the genocide in Bosnia?

There's a huge body of Russian/Serbian conspiracy theories and apologia as to why this was a bad thing that you occasionally see picked up by right-wingers and the Greenwaldy left, but yeah, kind of a surprising pick due to the overwhelming unpopularity of death camps and "ethnic cleansing", which as you'll recall was a euphemism actually coined during that war.
posted by Artw at 10:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [9 favorites]


Jackson was a genocidal monster. Lincoln violated Habeas Corpus. Adams signed the Alien and Sedition acts, which allowed the US government to fine and jail people for political speech. Wilson was a racist asshole, but was responsible (allegedly) for the first de-facto woman acting as US president. Buchanan sent US troops against United States settlers in US territory because of their religion (I learned it as the Mormon War, Wikipedia calls it the Utah War, either way there were no battles, the expedition became unpopular before it reached Utah).

The 1973 Chilean coup happened under Ford's watch, if barely. It was planned and assisted by the Nixon administration, although Nixon resigned just before it happened. Operation Condor, the support of the right wing dictators to suppress communism/human rights/democracy/decent human beings started under Nixon and was continued under Carter.

Reagan violated the constitution and probably committed treason, although we can never be sure. American Dad did a great song about this a while ago. Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan and essentially set the stage for drone warfare.Bush invaded a sovereign country on obviously forged intelligence and then was shocked when we were not greeted with open arms.
posted by Hactar at 10:35 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


Wilson was a racist asshole, but was responsible (allegedly) for the first de-facto woman acting as US president.

Technically, the stroke was responsible for that.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:51 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


TIME-TRAVELERS, BY NO MEANS SHOULD YOU GO BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY

For some reason my parents gave me this enjoyable book for Christmas one year when I was a kid.
posted by lagomorphius at 11:15 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


It seems The Intercept is stealing Jacobin's beat.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:22 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Richard Nixon refused to use any toilet seat that wasn't one of those weird, cushy 1970s toilet seats that had like a thick, gross vinyl covering over a foam core

IT WAS WORSE THAN THAT.
posted by lagomorphius at 11:24 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


This was part of an omnibus legislative package that also required Blu-Ray releases of Dirty Harry to be retitled Due Process Harold. The famous line "Do you feel lucky, punk?" has now been re-dubbed with "You look nice today."

Lest we forget: G.I. Zapp
posted by lagomorphius at 11:30 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm also shocked that they couldn't find something more ghastly for Reagan I mean... It's Reagan!

One would hope they'd taken a peek at Supermob.
posted by lagomorphius at 11:44 AM on February 19, 2018


If you're going after Grant, surely exiling and then creating internment camps for Jewish people belongs on the list ahead of "African Americans voted for him.

General Order 11 (which Lincoln revoked as soon as he heard about it) read "this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters." Grant in wartime was cold blooded (casualty rates of his own men were a disgrace), but I've never seen any reference to creating internment camps for Jewish people.

The go-to book is When General Grant Expelled the Jews. TLDR version is here.

The irony being that Lincoln himself had green-lit trading cotton with the Confederacy so long as you had a permit. Gen. Benjamin Butler in particular made out like a bandit.
posted by BWA at 12:30 PM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Blaine! Blaine! James G. Blaine! Continental liar from the State of Maine!

Ma! Ma! Where’s my Pa?

Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha!


This is more or less the same version of the Cleveland scandal and it's impact I was taught in in high school US History. Of course, my history teacher was basically a hippie in a necktie, and this was in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, so it was double duty as local history. (I think our proximity to the Canadian border was also the reason we were taught a lot more about the War of 1812 than most American kids.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:43 PM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Eisenhower also built the highway system which has led to the suburban hellscape of America, the decline of the train system, a ton of global warming and the oil wars.

He also funded DARPA, which shortly thereafter invented the Internet which led to Twitter and Russian troll bots which allowed Trump to be elected president.

In other words, Eisenhower enabled the two biggest projects in our country's history that connect people to each other. And in both cases, horrible things were the result.

I shall now retreat to my hermit cave.
posted by lubujackson at 1:00 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]


He literally said "I am a Stalwart. Arthur is president now" as he shot him.

This could be apocryphal I suppose, but it certainly clears the bar as a "suggestion" for his motivation.


Not apocryphal. Arthur, holding no real ambitions for the presidency, was horrified that he would benefit or be thought responsible for the act.

I’d have knocked Arthur for signing the Chinese Exclusion Act instead of his career before the presidency.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 2:07 PM on February 19, 2018


you know when you see two people who pretend to hate each other but you're like, cmon guys, you know you're desperately hot for each other so please just fuck and get it over with already?

that's how i see the intercept, reason, breitbart, and burning man.
posted by wibari at 2:22 PM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


If you want an extraordinary history of the presidency I cannot recommend the Presidential podcast enough. Super well done and researched and very entertaining as well.

Oh yes, that podcast is a fount of presidential facts!

Here's a twofer I learned from it: James Buchanan was our only bachelor president, leading many presidential historians to speculate that he was gay. Indeed, people at the time noticed and commented on his relationship with Alabama politician William Rufus King; he and Buchanan lived together for 10 years. Former president Andrew Jackson, proving that he was just as much of a dick as his historical actions make him out to be, took to calling them "Miss Nancy" (King) and "Aunt Fancy" (Buchanan).
posted by chainsofreedom at 2:42 PM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Came to see people heaping the same scorn upon Intercept as always, was not disappointed.

That said, yes this is clickbaity and vague in parts, but that title alone should give that much away.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:48 PM on February 19, 2018


Also, the thing about Washington's dentures coming, in part, from slaves does have some pretty compelling evidence behind it.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:55 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


General Order 11 (which Lincoln revoked as soon as he heard about it) read "this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters."
After looking around a bit, I must apologize. I suspect I was remembering what may have been a somewhat exaggerated podcast on the topic. It's likely that "arrested and held in confinement" was the motivation, but I agree that's not the same thing. Thanks for the correction.

(Also, to be clear, Grant did some really admirable things. On the ranked list of US presidents, he pretty high up in my book.)
posted by eotvos at 3:23 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


For some reason my parents gave me this enjoyable book for Christmas one year when I was a kid.

Ah, _The Good Old Days: They Were Terrible!_. I thought of the exact same book.

(If it's in your library, check it out: it's as delightful and ridiculous as the title suggests.)
posted by steady-state strawberry at 4:03 PM on February 19, 2018


Now I really want to write a fringe-style musical based on the Hall of Presidents attraction at Walt Disney World. Only, each president gets a minute or two to sing about the worst stuff he did. Female performers in travesti encouraged, especially for the beardliest fellows. And the short one.

No tap-dancing FDR, though. That went out with Mickey Rooney.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:49 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I am disappoint that Grover Cleveland did not have two non-consecutive appalling revelations.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:15 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]


Trump sucks but Bush is still worst ever.
posted by PHINC at 6:24 PM on February 19, 2018


Tyler has two living grandsons?
That’s worth the whole article.
posted by MtDewd at 6:31 PM on February 19, 2018


Yeah, but it's also one of the more commonly cited amazing historical facts, along with wooly mammoths still being around when the Great Pyramid was built.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:03 PM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Eisenhower also built the highway system

And he got the idea from Hitler.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:08 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Of all the possible ways you could attack Bill Clinton, The Intercept takes a swing at him for his role in ending the genocide in Bosnia?

The link goes to Perry's actual comments, though it's not entirely clear what he means either. It sounds like "expansion of NATO" might be the key words, more than intervention in Bosnia, but it's not really elaborately explained.

It's a bit of a weird choice anyway for an anecdote about Clinton's military interventions - is this one too well known now?
posted by atoxyl at 9:30 PM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


So for Harding they go with "almost certainly died of a heart attack," when he was taken down by the "greatest and most sensational scandal in the history of American politics"?

Hmm.
posted by clawsoon at 10:30 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus was bad but not illegal or imperial. The Constitution specifically states:

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

I believe a rebellion was going on.

Also, this is a horribly collected article about some horrors (and some good things) and mostly trivia about the presidents.

Chester A. Arthur signed into law the Chinese Exclusion Act 1882 and Benjamin Harrison extended the act and made it worse in 1892. These were the standards for hateful immigration policy for nearly 130 years.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:00 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


So for Harding they go with "almost certainly died of a heart attack," when he was taken down by the "greatest and most sensational scandal in the history of American politics"?

Not to mention his penchant for writing "smutty fuck notes".
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:32 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus was bad but not illegal or imperial. The Constitution specifically states:

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.


Except that that provision appears in Article I, which spells out the powers of Congress, and not Article II, which defines the Presidency.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:10 AM on February 20, 2018


They didn't go with my favorite Ulysses S. Grant fact, that he was a drunk and that he used to pee out the window of the Oval Office, to the extent that they had to replant the garden after he left.
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:50 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Millard Fillmore (1850-1853) is today best-remembered as the inspiration for the name of Mallard Fillmore, the worst comic strip in human history.

Not true! He's also remembered for Fillmore West 1969: The Complete Recordings, his limited edition Grateful Dead box set which includes a blistering 30-minute version of "Caution (Do Not Step On the Tracks)." Thirty minutes of that and you'll be begging to address the nation.

But, look, where's Tom Beck? Today he's only remembered for letting an asteroid wipe out the Atlantic coasts and Téa Leoni. Where's Josiah Bartlet? He can't remember the names of his staffers, but he can invade the fuck out of Kazakhstan. Checkmate, libs!

OTHER GHASTLY FACTS THAT ARE NOT FAKE AT ALL:

James Madison prefigured Trump even before THAT REAGAN GUY by being the first President TO PARDON FOREIGN NATIONALS. The pirates Jean and Pierre Lafitte were pardoned for their assistance in the War of 1812.

BAD HOMBRE Duncan Renaldo was pardoned by FDR for illegally entering the US and acting. Renaldo would gain fame (SOME SAY INFAMY) as TV's CISCO KID. However, history has largely forgotten that President.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:57 AM on February 20, 2018


Every day I realize another glaring gap in my Civil War era education thanks to careful engineering by slavery apologists ... Like, I knew the reconstruction "failed" not that it was blithely killed in a back room deal.

Anyone who's read anything about the US election of 1877 in oh, the last 30 or 40 years or so has probably encountered this fact. I mean, I was taught US history in some of the whitey-whitest schools and colleges in the US south and I learned that fact way back in the '80s.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:09 AM on February 20, 2018


I also feel my education on Reconstruction is limited. I grew up in Texas in the 80s. The prevailing opinions were, let's say, not very subtle. The real story is way more complicated and interesting. I'm still working my way through Foner's history of Reconstruction. It's long and slow-going but excellent. There's an abridged edition that's half the length.

Keeping with the theme of the thread, Foner talks a lot about what a terrible president Johnson was for Reconstruction. He takes power when Lincoln is shot and pretty much immediately flips to the Democrats' side and starts watering down Reconstruction. Our of orneriness, racism, or pure lack of courage. It's only after the Radical Republicans take control from the Senate that we get real post-Civil War reform with Grant a more-or-less willing enabler.
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on February 20, 2018


The Congress passed the The Habeas Corpus Suspension Act and Lincoln signed the bill making it law on March 3, 1863
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:41 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


They didn't go with my favorite Ulysses S. Grant fact, that he was a drunk and that he used to pee out the window of the Oval Office, to the extent that they had to replant the garden after he left.
posted by blnkfrnk


FWIW, I just finished Chernow's biography of Grant, and he argues pretty conclusively that Grant's drinking problems were pretty well wrapped up by the time he was president. Chernow also mentioned in passing that there wasn't an oval office yet at that point.

also, it's a pretty good book, if really, really, really long
posted by the phlegmatic king at 10:51 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


The Congress passed the The Habeas Corpus Suspension Act and Lincoln signed the bill making it law on March 3, 1863

So you agree that Lincoln acted unconstitutionally when he singlehandedly suspended habeas corpus, without congressional authority, in 1861?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:55 AM on February 20, 2018


The suspension was absolutely illegal in 1861, but personally I'm annoyed the short version is always "suspended habeas corpus" (as if that were the violation) instead of "bypassed Congress." This glib version bubbles up in "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" and "the South was the side that really liked freedom" narratives, and not just in the worst corners of the internet. Not that anyone's doing that on MeFi, but it has a life of its own.

IMHO Lincoln manages to be ridiculously mythologized and severely underrated at the same time.

My college-era Lincoln reading spent a lot of time debunking the Lincoln mythology, people like Hofstadter putting out the Lincoln-as-racist examples front and center, or the supposedly hypocritical nature of the Emancipation Proclamation. I bought this at the time but I've seen way more of this in my adult life than pro-Lincoln stuff so I am now firmly on the "underrated" side. Which admittedly seems like it should be impossible for someone always in the top 2-3 presidents.

Foner is great, and started getting me to understand more about him than the superficial debunking. I would recommend The Fiery Trial as a good read on Lincoln's thought (and shorter and more accessible than Reconstruction.) Lincoln changed a lot over 3 decades in public life. He did support freed slaves being sent off and was not an abolitionist (in the 19th meaning of the term). Except that by the end of his life he was also insisting blacks--at least those who'd served--needed the vote. Tracing this is complicated by the fact that he was always a politician and he would certainly emphasize some of the less enlightened aspects of his policies when he needed to. But he seemed to have an amazing capacity to listen and learn.

If you're going to go after the Johnsons for racism, why not Wilson and, yes, Lincoln?

I don't know how much you want to grade on a curve, but Wilson was more racist for the time (moving the Federal government towards segregation) and Lincoln less so. Hell, Lincoln was less racist than Wilson, on a curve or no.

So despite Lincoln in 1858 running for office saying this vile and apparently unequivocal crap:
I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making VOTERS or jurors of negroes, NOR OF QUALIFYING THEM HOLD OFFICE, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any of her man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race
. . . he was in favor of making voters of them six years later. So it wasn't actually all that firm, any more than Obama's anti-gay marriage stand was in 2008. I don't think he "secretly" was a believer in equal rights or had modern views on race. But I do think that he was more passionately committed to his good ideas than his bad ones.
posted by mark k at 11:54 AM on February 20, 2018 [7 favorites]


I've always believed there was something about the US Presidency like those novelty coffee mugs that say, "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO WORK HERE...BUT IT HELPS!!!" Obama and maybe Carter are the only Presidents in my lifetime I can really think of as stable adults.

I often think about Vonnegut's quote about the fatal flaw of our Constitution being that only nut cases want to be President, and how this might apply to apparently "stable" types like Obama and Carter. Maybe with Obama it's the smoking thing that is the only crazy thing about him. Carter? The attack of the killer swamp rabbit comes to mind, though that really wasn't his fault, he was just defending himself, right?
posted by e1c at 12:49 PM on February 20, 2018


"...Rulers are no more than attorneys, agents, and trustees, of the people; and if the cause, the interest, and trust, is insidiously betrayed, or wantonly trifled away, the people have a right to revoke the authority that they themselves have deputed, and to constitute other and better agents, attorneys and trustees."

-John Adams, A Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law (1765)
posted by clavdivs at 3:22 PM on February 20, 2018


But, look, where's Tom Beck? Today he's only remembered for letting an asteroid wipe out the Atlantic coasts and Téa Leoni. Where's Josiah Bartlet? He can't remember the names of his staffers, but he can invade the fuck out of Kazakhstan. Checkmate, libs!

Pssh, whatever, no one's yet topped President Shepard's speech.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:26 PM on February 20, 2018


IMHO Lincoln manages to be ridiculously mythologized and severely underrated at the same time.

Agreed, hence his edumacated guffaws as some sort of pre- flicker 'Zelig'. When taking survey, the myths no longer matter as my teacher said Lincoln freed no one conceding the EP. But his strive to make it law says volumes about the man.
posted by clavdivs at 3:30 PM on February 20, 2018


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