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(Charlotte Observer)   Not News: Officers realize the best way to stop drunk drivers is to approach them in the parking lot. Fark: And give them taxi vouchers   (charlotteobserver.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Operation Safe Streets, Alcoholic beverage, Police, drunk driving, Crowley, Alcohol, Ethanol, Mecklenburg County  
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2251 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Nov 2017 at 8:17 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Copy Link



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Exluddite  
Smartest (31)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 4:27:32 PM  
Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.
 
2017-11-20 5:30:13 PM  

Exluddite: Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.


At a Town Board meeting, after a constituent questioned the cost of our police/court, the Supervisor replied the it was "one of our more lucrative ventures." I was impessed with his honesty, though aghast.
 
Unobtanium [TotalFark] [OhFark]  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 6:11:41 PM  

Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.


But if we don't arrest them, what will the DUI lawyers do for work?
 
IgG4 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (9)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 7:00:18 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Exluddite: Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.

At a Town Board meeting, after a constituent questioned the cost of our police/court, the Supervisor replied the it was "one of our more lucrative ventures." I was impessed with his honesty, though aghast.


Why do you think they keep lowering the limit? It sure doesn't reduce the number of accidents or fatalities
 
2017-11-20 7:31:40 PM  
I'm OK with this.

/more bartenders need to be doing this as well
 
2017-11-20 8:23:03 PM  
They make it up in towing fees.
 
Kirablue42  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:23:20 PM  
That should be able to work in any area that has taxis. However, most laws are there for revenue and not citizen protection.
 
Callous  
Smartest (8)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:25:36 PM  
So stop the drunks before they become drivers, huh?


I can't find anything to complain about here.  A hundred of those vouchers are probably cheaper than one trial.
 
omegaic  
Smartest (15)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:31:03 PM  
This is a good program, it helps move the public image of Police from "revenue generation" to "peace officer." We definitely need more community-oriented policing in this country.
 
Thingster  
Smartest (8)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:33:06 PM  

Callous: So stop the drunks before they become drivers, huh?


I can't find anything to complain about here.  A hundred of those vouchers are probably cheaper than one trial.


Which is why first time DUI never goes to trial.  First time you plea out, get probation, record is expunged in 18 months, the state gets their $5k out of you.

If you go to trial you are going to be found guilty, the state will get $10k, you'll lose your license, and your record won't get cleared.

Go to "DUI plea day" at your local court house, look at the line of people there to accept probation, and realize each of those people is $3k-7k right into the coffers, plus money to interlock companies, plus money to "rehabilitation" services, plus money to DUI lawyers.

They don't want people to quit getting DUIs
 
Mindlock  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:34:21 PM  

Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.


You make it seem like DUI laws are all about the money and they're not.

You forget about punishing people so authoritarians can get their rocks off.
 
Russ1642  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:34:44 PM  

Callous: So stop the drunks before they become drivers, huh?


I can't find anything to complain about here.  A hundred of those vouchers are probably cheaper than one trial.


More like a thousand.
 
2017-11-20 8:35:22 PM  

omegaic: This is a good program, it helps move the public image of Police from "revenue generation" to "peace officer." We definitely need more community-oriented policing in this country.


Except that the Fraternal Order of Police will, behind closed doors, decry this, as it reduces the amount of money that they can extort out of drunk drivers to fund their purchases of Stingray units and district attorneys.
 
2017-11-20 8:35:39 PM  
Sounds like cops stalking the bar parking lot to me. Yeah - "spiffy".
 
2017-11-20 8:36:25 PM  
It's fairly common for younger officers to sit outside bars and wait for the drunks to get in their cars and leave, then pull them over for an easy arrest.  Yes, the drunk is breaking the law and yes they need to not be on the roads while drunk, but that's the wrong way to go about it; especially when weighed against the potential civil liability.

I train our officers in drunk driving detection and one of my scenarios is something like this; where an officer sits and watches an obviously drunk person stumble from a bar and get into a car.  Then I pose the question to them; "what happens when you go to stop the car and they flee, you pursue and somebody innocent gets hurt?"  That's usually met with silence.  I can't imagine the potential payout in a lawsuit when an attorney gets ahold of that officer and finds out they let the drunk person drive when they could have stopped it from happening.  The arrest stat is simply not worth the many potential negative outcomes.

In the past few years I've probably driven more drunk people home than I've arrested for drunk driving.  i've often seen them sitting in the car to 'sober up" before going home and have had some good luck convincing them to let me drive them home so they don't put themselves into a position to drive drunk when they think they're sober.

There are many available avenues to deter drunk driving, and an arrest is simply one of them, not always the only or best way.
 
2017-11-20 8:37:38 PM  
Is this before or after they tase their ass?
 
omegaic  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:37:56 PM  

ClavellBCMI: omegaic: This is a good program, it helps move the public image of Police from "revenue generation" to "peace officer." We definitely need more community-oriented policing in this country.

Except that the Fraternal Order of Police will, behind closed doors, decry this, as it reduces the amount of money that they can extort out of drunk drivers to fund their purchases of Stingray units and district attorneys.


You forgot to put your tinfoil hat on before you posted that.
 
Russ1642  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:38:15 PM  

Mindlock: Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.

You make it seem like DUI laws are all about the money and they're not.

You forget about punishing people so authoritarians can get their rocks off.


Punishing people so authoritarians can get elected because they're 'tough on crime'
 
2017-11-20 8:38:55 PM  
When I was a locksmith, I would get the inevitable 2:00 am phone call from the bar to unlock a drunks car. I would call the cops to meet me there in case of drunken shenanigans. More often than not the cops would have taxi vouchers if the person had been drinking. I would like to think that it cut down on drunken accidents.
 
Callous  
Smartest (6)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:39:20 PM  

hooneybayer: Sounds like cops stalking the bar parking lot to me. Yeah - "spiffy".


If they are making sure people get home safe without locking them up what's the problem?  Seriously what privacy do you think you have in the parking lot of a business that probably has cameras covering every inch of it?
 
2017-11-20 8:39:23 PM  
Have to say a program like that would be great up here...my m.o. would be to take a boat to town then boat home, no gauntlet out on the lake...cops oughta hand out bumwipes too cause im certainly shiatting my pants if i get "contacted"...
 
Dogsbody  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 8:43:56 PM  
Uber and Lyft are stealing revenue from our community coffers!
 
2017-11-20 8:44:09 PM  

omegaic: ClavellBCMI: omegaic: This is a good program, it helps move the public image of Police from "revenue generation" to "peace officer." We definitely need more community-oriented policing in this country.

Except that the Fraternal Order of Police will, behind closed doors, decry this, as it reduces the amount of money that they can extort out of drunk drivers to fund their purchases of Stingray units and district attorneys.

You forgot to put your tinfoil hat on before you posted that.


Actually, I *was* wearing my tinfoil hat, *and* drunk posting, while putting up that post :).
 
omegaic  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 8:44:48 PM  

ClavellBCMI: omegaic: ClavellBCMI: omegaic: This is a good program, it helps move the public image of Police from "revenue generation" to "peace officer." We definitely need more community-oriented policing in this country.

Except that the Fraternal Order of Police will, behind closed doors, decry this, as it reduces the amount of money that they can extort out of drunk drivers to fund their purchases of Stingray units and district attorneys.

You forgot to put your tinfoil hat on before you posted that.

Actually, I *was* wearing my tinfoil hat, *and* drunk posting, while putting up that post :).


...step out of the car, sir.
 
2017-11-20 8:47:35 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: It's fairly common for younger officers to sit outside bars and wait for the drunks to get in their cars and leave, then pull them over for an easy arrest.  Yes, the drunk is breaking the law and yes they need to not be on the roads while drunk, but that's the wrong way to go about it; especially when weighed against the potential civil liability.

I train our officers in drunk driving detection and one of my scenarios is something like this; where an officer sits and watches an obviously drunk person stumble from a bar and get into a car.  Then I pose the question to them; "what happens when you go to stop the car and they flee, you pursue and somebody innocent gets hurt?"  That's usually met with silence.  I can't imagine the potential payout in a lawsuit when an attorney gets ahold of that officer and finds out they let the drunk person drive when they could have stopped it from happening.  The arrest stat is simply not worth the many potential negative outcomes.

In the past few years I've probably driven more drunk people home than I've arrested for drunk driving.  i've often seen them sitting in the car to 'sober up" before going home and have had some good luck convincing them to let me drive them home so they don't put themselves into a position to drive drunk when they think they're sober.

There are many available avenues to deter drunk driving, and an arrest is simply one of them, not always the only or best way.


Wow you have the right attitude, and your comment about 1 lawsuit costing millions (and outweighing the fines from the arrest) is spot on.  Kudos to you and welcome to my favorites list
 
2017-11-20 8:47:42 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: I train our officers in drunk driving detection and one of my scenarios is something like this; where an officer sits and watches an obviously drunk person stumble from a bar and get into a car. Then I pose the question to them; "what happens when you go to stop the car and they flee, you pursue and somebody innocent gets hurt?" That's usually met with silence.


Interesting. I used to do the DUI training in our department and I used almost the exact same scenario. I hated cops that did "barsitting" and let them know about my disapproval. As the lead DUI instructor and enforcement officer, they usually took me seriously.

This program in Charlotte is great, but they can't let it replace their enforcement efforts. If people start thinking they can get as drunk as they want and the cops will get them a free ride home, it will do nothing to deter people from driving drunk when the cops don't happen to be there. This program should augment their enforcement efforts, not reduce it.
 
Boo_Guy  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2017-11-20 8:48:01 PM  

Justin Beaver: Is this before or after they tase their ass?


Read that as taste.. and oddly enough it still worked.
 
2017-11-20 8:51:58 PM  
There are city bus systems that do free rides on New Year's Eve and sometimes Christmas Eve. Thanksgiving might also be a good idea, but I don't know what the drunk driving stats for that day are.
 
phishrace  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 8:53:55 PM  
I'll drink to that!

/will drink to pretty much anything
 
Fedora  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (5)  
2017-11-20 8:56:03 PM  
Many years ago I lived in a Chicago exurb (edge of the suburbs).  There was a bar that the cops loved to target.  They would walk through the bar and eyeball the potential DUI candidates then wait for them on a hill overlooking the parking lot.  One night 3 guys came in a bit tipsy and got much more tipsy.  The cops had an eye on them and were waiting on top of the hill.  The 3 of them staggered out the door and into the woods behind the bar where they had 3 horses tied to trees.  Of course riding while intoxicated is also against the law but they just hopped on the horses and disappeared into the woods.
 
bdub77 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (5)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:57:32 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: It's fairly common for younger officers to sit outside bars and wait for the drunks to get in their cars and leave, then pull them over for an easy arrest.  Yes, the drunk is breaking the law and yes they need to not be on the roads while drunk, but that's the wrong way to go about it; especially when weighed against the potential civil liability.

I train our officers in drunk driving detection and one of my scenarios is something like this; where an officer sits and watches an obviously drunk person stumble from a bar and get into a car.  Then I pose the question to them; "what happens when you go to stop the car and they flee, you pursue and somebody innocent gets hurt?"  That's usually met with silence.  I can't imagine the potential payout in a lawsuit when an attorney gets ahold of that officer and finds out they let the drunk person drive when they could have stopped it from happening.  The arrest stat is simply not worth the many potential negative outcomes.

In the past few years I've probably driven more drunk people home than I've arrested for drunk driving.  i've often seen them sitting in the car to 'sober up" before going home and have had some good luck convincing them to let me drive them home so they don't put themselves into a position to drive drunk when they think they're sober.

There are many available avenues to deter drunk driving, and an arrest is simply one of them, not always the only or best way.


you are one of the good ones.
 
2017-11-20 8:57:50 PM  

cyberspacedout: There are city bus systems that do free rides on New Year's Eve and sometimes Christmas Eve. Thanksgiving might also be a good idea, but I don't know what the drunk driving stats for that day are.


There are a couple tow companies here that will not only drive you home, but tow your car home for you if you're too drunk to drive. Which is a great service IMO.
 
Callous  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 8:58:13 PM  

CruiserTwelve: HideAndGoFarkYourself: I train our officers in drunk driving detection and one of my scenarios is something like this; where an officer sits and watches an obviously drunk person stumble from a bar and get into a car. Then I pose the question to them; "what happens when you go to stop the car and they flee, you pursue and somebody innocent gets hurt?" That's usually met with silence.

Interesting. I used to do the DUI training in our department and I used almost the exact same scenario. I hated cops that did "barsitting" and let them know about my disapproval. As the lead DUI instructor and enforcement officer, they usually took me seriously.

This program in Charlotte is great, but they can't let it replace their enforcement efforts. If people start thinking they can get as drunk as they want and the cops will get them a free ride home, it will do nothing to deter people from driving drunk when the cops don't happen to be there. This program should augment their enforcement efforts, not reduce it.


The idea is to get more people home in one piece.  If they drive drunk no one is saying to let them get away with it.  And if it gets people used to taking cabs home when drunk that's a win for everyone.
 
2017-11-20 9:05:31 PM  

Callous: The idea is to get more people home in one piece. If they drive drunk no one is saying to let them get away with it. And if it gets people used to taking cabs home when drunk that's a win for everyone.


Like I said, I think it's a great program. I hope they continue it.
 
bdub77 [TotalFark]  
Smartest (4)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 9:05:49 PM  
With any luck within the next twenty years cars will be automatically driving people home, and we never again have to deal with DUIs and speeding outside a very small number of edge cases.
 
HumanSVD  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 9:15:40 PM  

Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.


Those officers will get suspended without pay for failure to bring in slave labor for prisons and anything they could have seized on the suspects' possession.
 
2017-11-20 9:23:40 PM  

Unobtanium: Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.

But if we don't arrest them, what will the DUI lawyers do for work?


There would still be plenty of dumb mistakes for people to make. The lawyers will be fine.
 
oopsboom  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 9:32:44 PM  
This actually sounds pretty much right for once.

Cops should be reminding people what the law is and assisting them with following it.  They are in no way obligated to pay for people's taxi rides.  But they can, for instance, remind people - via their presence -  to get a taxi instead of driving, help people call rides if needed, make sure the really really drunk are headed in the right direction, etc.  That actually sounds like a solid community outreach opportunity.  And while they're there at the bar openly they are probably also cutting down on the chance of anyone being sexually assaulted, any general fights breaking out, any theft going on, and a host of other problems at the time as well.

The flip side of that coin is that any cop 'bar sitting' as it was called up-thread by CruiserTwelve and making zero good faith effort to prevent DUIs from starting should be criminally liable as an accomplice.  The same way that many states are now charging people who let a drunk friend borrow their car with a crime.  The cop in that situation has the authority and the ability to prevent that crime from occurring, the knowledge it is occurring, and makes no effort to prevent it before it begins.

Does anyone remember back when it was the police's duty to prevent crime from happening and not just document the results of crime after it impacted people's lives?  we should get back to those days.  this seems like a good move in that direction.
 
rkiller1  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (2)  
2017-11-20 9:33:08 PM  

Fedora: Many years ago I lived in a Chicago exurb (edge of the suburbs).  There was a bar that the cops loved to target.  They would walk through the bar and eyeball the potential DUI candidates then wait for them on a hill overlooking the parking lot.  One night 3 guys came in a bit tipsy and got much more tipsy.  The cops had an eye on them and were waiting on top of the hill.  The 3 of them staggered out the door and into the woods behind the bar where they had 3 horses tied to trees.  Of course riding while intoxicated is also against the law but they just hopped on the horses and disappeared into the woods.


With all the tollways surrounding Chicago, I hope someone had a shiatload of dimes.
 
doglover  
Smartest (3)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 9:33:34 PM  
No, the BEST way to stop drunk drivers is to make it easy to get to bars and liquor shops on foot, but difficult by car.

The second best way is self driving cars with no direct passenger control over the vehicle.

This is just better than tickets.
 
Callous  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 9:34:59 PM  
Nakamura took him off his feet last night if I remember correctly.
 
Callous  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (1)  
2017-11-20 9:35:30 PM  

Callous: Nakamura took him off his feet last night if I remember correctly.


Wrong thread......
 
2017-11-20 9:43:55 PM  

Exluddite: Well that makes perfect sense, and may well be more effective. Since it doesn't produce any revenue though, it'll never catch on.


I know, right?  It's at the point where I have an ingrained reflex when seeing something like this.  It just makes far too much sense to be allowed to stand.  It's the sort of thing that's talked about in lawyer bars, not actually put into practice by law enforcement.  Bravo if they can keep it going.

Next thing you know they'll stop jailing addicts and taking kids away from decent parents because there's evidence they had one joint a full decade before having kids.
 
2017-11-20 9:55:06 PM  
Hmmm...

Number of cops required to pass a drunk a taxi voucher- 1.

Time taken to pass a drunk a taxi voucher- less than ten seconds.

Number of cops required to attend a major road accident- variable, but often quite a large number.

Time taken by cops required to attend a major road accident- variable, but could be hours.

Time taken off by cops traumatised by seeing dead and injured people in car accidents- often significant.

The first two don't cost the department that much money.

The last three... well, you do the math.

So in the end...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2017-11-20 10:32:23 PM  

Do you know the way to Mordor: The first two don't cost the department that much money.The last three... well, you do the math.So in the end...


The success of the program depends on its effect on reducing DUI related accidents. I really hope it does.

But then, as Callous has already clearly stated, Nakamura took him off his feet last night if I remember correctly.
 
2017-11-20 10:37:04 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
soupafi  
Smartest (1)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 10:58:48 PM  
Why is it illegal to sleep in your car if your're drunk?
 
bagumpity  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 11:06:03 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: It's fairly common for younger officers to sit outside bars and wait for the drunks to get in their cars and leave, then pull them over for an easy arrest.


They're not above going into the bar and arresting anyone with car keys in his pocket.  Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't thought of arresting people who are sitting at home thinking about going to the bar that night.
 
Thingster  
Smartest (2)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 11:10:43 PM  

soupafi: Why is it illegal to sleep in your car if your're drunk?


Because in your inebriated state, you could wake up and decide it's a good idea to drive home.

it's precrime, but that's the idea.
 
Quiverfull  
Smartest (0)   Funniest (0)  
2017-11-20 11:11:21 PM  

soupafi: Why is it illegal to sleep in your car if your're drunk?


I've wondered about this too. I've napped in my vehicle for hours and hours before driving.

I guesstimated back then, but these days do a bit less guesstimating by using a program such as AlcoDroid to track in my alcohol intake and BAC.

Keeps me to generally have a drink an hour or so when drinking, even at home.

I'm also what curious what the cops in this thread think of stoned drivers versus drunk drivers.

I hesitate to sometimes say cops as I've heard much older police don't like it, but those 50 and under equate it in use to the terms: police, officer, police officer.
 
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