Reacting swiftly, Mayor Quimby has declared Mob Rule.
August 18, 2017 1:49 PM   Subscribe

A busy week for the President: a Nazi uprising in Charlottesville, resulting in one dead and several wounded, received a slow response and alarming equivocation from Trump regarding which “side” was worse. Widespread public backlash at his Nazi apologia - across the political spectrum - led to the resignation of several industry and public sector leaders from various advisory councils. Charities began canceling Mar-a-Lago events. One Congressman begin steps to introduce Impeachment. A week into the debacle, key advisor Steve Bannon “resigns”, with possibly more to be purged. Undaunted, Trump is planning another campaign rally in Phoenix, making noises about pardoning convicted criminal ex-Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
posted by darkstar (2924 comments total) 126 users marked this as a favorite
 
Sigh.
posted by zeoslap at 1:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'm really happy about Bannon going. Trump is a moron but Bannon is smart and evil. He could do real damage, and unlike Trump he's an ideological zealot with an agenda. Not that the people remaining in Trump's inner circle are saints, but to me Bannon was always the most dangerous. There are even rumors of Breitbart gearing up for war with Tump, which would be about the best thing we could possibly hope for from this if true.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]


About the PCAH resignation - the first letter of each paragraph of their resignation letter spells "RESIST."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:52 PM on August 18, 2017 [95 favorites]


I'll be happy when he and Breitbart strike back. Until then he's just working from home as far as Im concerned and frankly I think Bannon would prefer telecommuting anyway since he'd no longer have to Febreze his crotch at 7 every morning.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [68 favorites]


The real question is: What job in the administration will Trump give to Arpaio? I hear there's a lot of turnover.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:54 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


Seriously, until I see evidence otherwise Bannon is as far as I'm concerned pulling a Lewandowski.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:54 PM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Bannon is gone from the White House, but he has already laid eggs in everything
Look at the news this week. If there were any doubts that eight months was plenty of time for Bannon to lay eggs in all the drapes (the ones with James B. Comey and the ones without) so that his work could continue without him when he flew back into his cave, Tuesday’s presidential news conference should dispel them. The president is springing to the defense of white supremacists and Nazis. Breitbart‘s work is done here.

Sure, as BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith notes, Bannon claims to be an “economic nationalist” and suggests that whenever a white nationalist is drawn to him or his work it comes to him as a total and unpleasant surprise, but this seems like a pretty fundamental error for a so-called strategic mastermind to have made every day for years and years and years. If all you serve are enormous cones full of red meat sprinkled with dog whistles, after a certain point you cannot keep pretending to be an ice cream truck. President Trump certainly seems confused on the subject, if his remarks this week are any indication.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:54 PM on August 18, 2017 [85 favorites]


The noises emerging from Beitbart suggest it may actually be a real split. Fingers crossed for heavy fighting between the admin and the far-right media.

Undaunted, Trump is planning another campaign rally in Phoenix, making noises about pardoning convicted criminal ex-Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Oh god, he's totally going to do that, isn't he? So a real split, but not a big one.

Stupid nazi bastard.
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


Thanks for keeping me sane through this shitshow, MeFi.
posted by joedan at 1:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [82 favorites]


Trump is going to be super happy that he gave Breitbart pride of place in the White House press corps. That should turn out really well for him.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


Bannon is OUT
Mallory is BACK on twitter
The Nib ran a comprehensive cartoon history of American socialism!
I'm ready to get tired of winning
posted by The Whelk at 1:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [53 favorites]


For those keeping track at home, we've gone from Hamilton quotes for the titles to Simpsons quotes. I'm not sure what that means. But I'm not sure what much of anything means anymore; I've tried my best to make sense of this year and failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
posted by nubs at 1:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [42 favorites]


The split is not about race or economics, but whether Steve Bannon can brag to reporters or wear shorts.
posted by AndrewInDC at 1:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


From the Post's article about Bannon's departure:
Trump, meanwhile, had been upset about Bannon’s participation in a book by Bloomberg News reporter Joshua Green, “Devil’s Bargain” — particularly a cover photo giving equal billing to Trump and his chief strategist. Every time Green was on CNN, where he is now contributor, Trump grew unhappy with his references to Bannon as a thinker and strategist — and upset that the conversation was not instead about Trump.

Bannon’s critics noticed that Trump hated this narrative and would casually mention the book whenever they could in private conversations, slowly building a case against Bannon as a self-promoter.
But I thought Trump never watches CNN because it's fake news?
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]


I really think what happened to Bannon signals that he actually will pardon Arpaio.

It fits the same exact pattern we saw with the Charlottesville statements. He can be arm-twisted into doing something politically necessary, but then he has this overwhelming urge to fling shit everywhere to get back at his political enemies. He wants to do something to beat the people who made him unhappy. He had to kick out one of his monsters, so he'll want another. A pardon for Arpaio seems more likely than ever now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]


If you're brave enough to peek at the comments on Breitbart (I can barely stand to type the URL, but I took one for the team), they are absolutely turning on Trump, viciously and immediately.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]


This is [real]

@dominicholden Hey, @SeattlePD, I'm seeing vids of Alex Jones on Seattle streets yelling at folks. Is this under investigation, are there incident reports?

@SeattlePD (Verified): @dominicholden We haven't received any official reports. As far as we know that could be an actor playing Alex Jones.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [141 favorites]


Any word on what how the Mercers are responding to Bannon's exit? (I mean, I assume they've known for a while, but what have they been up to?)
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do presidents normally hold rallies once they are actually in power and not just candidates?
posted by KateViolet at 1:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.
posted by Melismata at 2:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [52 favorites]


I think it's going to be a split like the one Richard Spencer was talking about between himself and the Nazis when he got punched i.e. they all believe in the same stuff but hate each other and have loud pointless online fights that change nothing.
posted by Copronymus at 2:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


Do presidents normally hold rallies once they are actually in power and not just candidates?

No.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]




Johnny Wallflower

That article seems to rest on the false premise that Trump isn't already himself a racist and needs Bannon to prod him into it.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Although it will be hilariously ironic when Trump starts tweeting out about Breitbart being fake news. He will, for once, be totally right! But his supporters won't believe him, and will believe whatever Breitbart publishes, and the mainstream media will go to town on the conflict while continuing to bring the hammer down every time Trump shows his ass.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


we've gone from Hamilton quotes for the titles to Simpsons quotes.

Hamilton quotes were for when it looked like we were moving into a new, exciting future. Simpson quotes are for when we're drearily fighting the same old battles over and over again. On FOX.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:01 PM on August 18, 2017 [190 favorites]


There are even rumors of Breitbart gearing up for war with Tump, which would be about the best thing we could possibly hope for from this if true.

The "#WAR" tweet by Joel Pollak isn't about Trump. It's about Matt Drudge and The Drudge Report that they're going to war with.
posted by Talez at 2:02 PM on August 18, 2017


Do presidents normally hold rallies once they are actually in power and not just candidates?

I mean I think there's a German precedent once...
posted by corb at 2:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [62 favorites]




@ReutersPolitics: JUST IN: Carl Icahn says in statement he would cease to act as special advisor to President Trump on issues relating to regulatory reform

So. Much. Winning.
posted by zachlipton at 2:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [71 favorites]


I'm waiting for the big upcoming push for tax cuts in Congress. Once Trump signs that, they have no use for him anymore.
posted by azpenguin at 2:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


Do presidents normally hold rallies once they are actually in power and not just candidates?

These guys seemed to.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


As noted above, Bannon's already laid eggs in Trump's empty head -- him "leaving" doesn't mean much without some real wounds being dealt between the Breitbart and Trump factions (if this is all not just for show).
posted by benzenedream at 2:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


We've achieved the singularity: we have President* whose only competency is running for office.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]


I was just gonna ask if Alexandra Petri was our new Mallory Ortberg but then the Whelk said Mallory was back on Twitter so BRB HAVE TO RUN TO TWITTER *excited squeal*
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]


Bannon is Trump's Grima Wormtongue. Will Trump get better advisers, and reform his world view, or is his mind forever warped?
posted by Midnight Skulker at 2:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Icahn is out!
posted by The Whelk at 2:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Carl Icahn flee this nation-shaming clusterfuck with a shred of my dignity intact, am I right guys
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


Do presidents normally hold rallies once they are actually in power and not just candidates?

It's normal for presidents to hold rallies when they're running for re-election. Trump started running for re-election on Inauguration Day. That's not a metaphor or anything, he literally filed the paperwork on Inauguration Day which is absurd and unheard-of.

It is because he enjoys the adulation and the emoluments. The Emoldulations.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [74 favorites]


Upthread (in the many, many threads upthread) we have been doing a lot of handwringing about whether or not something new and dark has entered the U.S. and world political systems by way of Trump.

But to me, the last couple of weeks have really sealed it. There really and truly is something new, different, and dangerous going on, and this is what it is:

Trump does not simply consider the racists and the neo-Nazis a more-or-less fringe element of his supporter base that needs to be mollified and jollied along a bit and maybe thrown a bone or two here or there.

Rather, Trump considers the racists and Nazis to be the very center of his base--the most indispensable pillar of his support.

We see this going back to Trump's entry into presidential politics via birtherism, and then when he joined 2016 presidential race, with a big anti-immigrant/anti-Latino speech.

What he and his advisors (ie, family) saw when he did that was that these racist ploys brought him both attention and voters--voters that were there, waiting to be activated but which no other candidate had the temerity to directly court.

The result of this dynamic is the Trump really, truly considers the racists and the white supremacists to be the very core of the base of his support.

I think we know enough about human nature at this point in history to know that this element of human nature is always there, always lurking, always under the surface, and always waiting to be awakened.

But civilized societies make a special effort to keep this very negative, dangerous side of human nature in the background.

Trump has flipped that dynamic on its back and ridden it to the top.

And we have seen him declare that unequivocally to be so, this week.

This is a very dark and dangerous time in U.S. history. If we can figure out how to put this down now, we may emerge the stronger for it. When numerous Republican leaders come out in opposition to the President, that is a positive sign.

But then there is this reaction from the state GOP in my own state--empowered, I would guess, by the full knowledge that all-too-many racists are there among their members. Jumping on the Trump Train empowers that faction of their own state party, and the remainder are likely to just keep mum. Any criticism will come from the Democratic side, which only helps them further with their base.

All in all, I've been trying to put my finger on: Is there really something different and dangerous about Trump--and if so, what exactly is it?

This is it: The fact that he considers the racist white supremacist movement to be the center of his base.

And that he is not a "politician" who played to them at the start only to abandon them later--as so many have done. No, Trump will truly be loyal to his base to the end.
posted by flug at 2:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [91 favorites]


The reason to celebrate Bannon leaving is that Trump isn't an ideologue, he's a demagogue. He himself has no real agenda or vision beyond obtaining power. Those are supplied by people around Trump.

Whatever "eggs" Bannon laid before leaving, Trump will not be implementing Bannon's vision for dismantling the state without Bannon there in his inner circle, at least not nearly to the same extent he would if Bannon were there. Trump infamously is easily swayed by those around him, and now those around him are slightly less crazy and definitely less hell-bent on a singular ideology.

Whatever echoes Bannon has left will fade in time as the rest of Trump's advisors push him in various other ways.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


@SeattlePD (Verified): @dominicholden We haven't received any official reports. As far as we know that could be an actor playing Alex Jones.

So if at some point I want to commit a crime, I just need to say I'm an actor impersonating a celebrity ("celebrity"), and the police won't even investigate? Good to know Interesting.
posted by bibliowench at 2:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


Bannon, backed by billionaire, prepares to go to war

Billionaire in question is Robert Mercer, who's already been funding all this shit, so whatever.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Does anyone recognize Bannon's lapel pin?
posted by jgirl at 2:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


We're averaging about one lost Trump administration figure every thread, let's hope this one is for Gorka or Stephen Miller.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [42 favorites]


It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.

The counter's been stuck there for 210 days.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [26 favorites]


I think that's maybe one of those Secret Service "I have permission to be here" pins.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


Probably just one of many Secret Service lapel pins. It's pretty common for them to issue a variety of them to staff for different events, especially during the campaign.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


Destroying that lapel pin prevents Bannon from re-forming after 1d10 days.
posted by darkstar at 2:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [130 favorites]


It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.

The counter's been stuck there for 210 days.


thatsthejoke.gif
posted by Melismata at 2:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


So if at some point I want to commit a crime, I just need to say I'm an actor impersonating a celebrity ("celebrity"), and the police won't even investigate?

I mean, I think the police still at this point prefer that they be notified of things happening by means other than social media, or that was the vibe I was getting from that response. That if there's video on the internet but nobody has actually made a complaint, then that video might or might not represent things actually happening, and they aren't in a good position to manage that if people who're actually there haven't actually contacted the police?
posted by Sequence at 2:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


So if at some point I want to commit a crime, I just need to say I'm an actor impersonating a celebrity ("celebrity"), and the police won't even investigate? Good to know Interesting.

I think it is most likely a joke being made by the PD social media about the tendency of Mr. Jones to claim that everything that is reported by the mainstream media is fake, staged, a false flag operation, and so on.
posted by nubs at 2:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [43 favorites]


Bannon on the record to Joshua Green: "If there's any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I'm leaving the White House to go to war for Trump against his opponents -- on Capital Hill, in the media, and in corporate America."

So basically Bannon vs The World.
posted by zachlipton at 2:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump started running for re-election on Inauguration Day. That's not a metaphor or anything, he literally filed the paperwork on Inauguration Day which is absurd and unheard-of.

It's a good thing we don't have a Parliamentary system, where Trump could call for a new election any time he felt like it. We would be having an election every day or so until he lost.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


Meanwhile, about an hour south of where I sit, the last home of Jefferson (we call him "Jeff," hereabouts) Davis, a nice estate-cum-museum in Biloxi called Beauvoir, is offering to home any displaced Confederate statues.
(I got my Associates Degree at Jeff Davis Junior College! Oddly, Mississippi's community college system is really fantastic. And that college is now "Gulf Coast Community College," so we were ahead on that.)
posted by thebrokedown at 2:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]




Bannon on the record to Joshua Green: "If there's any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I'm leaving the White House to go to war for Trump against his opponents -- on Capital Hill, in the media, and in corporate America."

He's going to run an extremely hateful far-right blog!
posted by Artw at 2:25 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


My loathing for Joe Arpaio is worse than my loathing for Trump. I couldn't tell you by how much, it's more in the sense of hating the old corrupt guy vs hating the new corrupt guy, and no pity for either. But if Trump pardons Arpaio it will shed a national spotlight on Arpaio's crimes and malfeasance... you thought a confederate statue was racist? Wait til you read up on Arpaio's policies.
posted by Catblack at 2:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's a good thing we don't have a Parliamentary system, where Trump could call for a new election any time he felt like it. We would be having an election every day or so until he lost.

No, the government would have lost the confidence of the House with the fail of the repeal and replace bill, Democrats would have come in with a solid majority and Prime Minister Hillary Clinton would have already gotten Medicare-For-All through Parliament by now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [52 favorites]


this is what happens when you rely on systems built in the 1780s
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]


Will a pardon free Gov. Doug Ducey to appoint Joe Arpiao to finish McCain's term?
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


I honestly think the split is down to Bannon's comments on North Korea in his 'accidental' interview, and his over estimating Trump. Stick with me on this.

Bannon is an arsehole, but not a total idiot. He can see everything ratcheting up in terms of tension, and that Trump's painted himself into a bit of a corner by constantly increasing his threats when everyone knows North Korea won't respond how he wants.

So not being a total idiot, he figures he can release the tension and give Trump an easy out. Give an accidental interview, say what everyone knows anyhow ("of course we're not actually going to attack North Korea - half of Seoul would be dead in minutes"), Trump doesn't have to say anything or back down, just not start it again. World doesn't end, Trump doesn't lose face, everyone's good.

The key thing here is the fact that everyone knows that you can't attack North Korea without them inflicting horrific damage on South Korea. You all know this, I know this, anyone in the military knows this, Bannon knows this, Bannon doesn't even consider that Trump might not know this, because it's so basic.

Assume Trump doesn't. Bannon's given an interview which he doesn't see as giving him a deniable out from a problem everyone can see he's in, he sees it as Bannon publicly calling him an idiot.
posted by MattWPBS at 2:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


Bannon on the record to Joshua Green: "If there's any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I'm leaving the White House to go to war for Trump against his opponents -- on Capital Hill, in the media, and in corporate America."

Did... did Bannon just go full Rorschach? "I'm not locked up in here with you - you're locked up in here me?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: It's normal for presidents to hold rallies when they're running for re-election. Trump started running for re-election on Inauguration Day. That's not a metaphor or anything, he literally filed the paperwork on Inauguration Day which is absurd and unheard-of.

It is because he enjoys the adulation and the emoluments. The Emoldulations.


And to spend campaign money at Trump businesses. And to cover legal fees.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:31 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]


I think the more likely scenario, MattWPBS, is that Bannon knew he was out before he gave the interview and did it as a parting shot at the McMaster/Kelly faction.
posted by Justinian at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


this is what happens when you rely on systems built in the 1780s

I mean I don't think this year's switch to systems built in the 1930s-40s was an improvement
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2017 [63 favorites]


Bannon on the record to Joshua Green: "If there's any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I'm leaving the White House to go to war for Trump against his opponents -- on Capital Hill, in the media, and in corporate America."

So this is really more of a "Cry Havoc! And let slip the dogs of war" move than any indication that Kelly is actually gaining any control?
posted by nubs at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


So Infrastructure Week was a resounding success, sounds like.

I, for one, am tired of all the winning.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 2:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


if at some point I want to commit a crime, I just need to say I'm an actor impersonating a celebrity ("celebrity"), and the police won't even investigate? Good to know Interesting.

Just tell them you're Bob Dylan. They'll believe you.
posted by spitbull at 2:34 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bannon on the record to Joshua Green: "If there's any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I'm leaving the White House to go to war for Trump against his opponents -- on Capital Hill, in the media, and in corporate America.

I mean, what else is he going to say? "I just got humiliated and kicked out by the guy I helped elect. I've just lost all actual power I worked my whole life to have, so now I have to yell on my blog."

"Actually I meant for this to happen, I'm not being fired I quit" is the lamest spin in the book.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:35 PM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]


So let me get this straight:

Bannon is going to wage war on, uh the world via Breitbart.
Gobs of white supremacy assholes have been booted from servers all over the place.
Would it not follow that Breitbart gets booted too?

Is that connecting too many dots? I mean, for me it all seems to be merged into one big black smudgey dot.
posted by yoga at 2:35 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


As previously discussed, but with some more analysis: In Contrast To Business Councils, Trump's Evangelical Advisers Stay Put (NPR, Aug. 18, 2017)
President Trump, this week, disbanded two business advisory councils and dissolved another before it even met. This came after some business leaders resigned because of Trump's remarks about the violence in Charlottesville. But the president's evangelical advisory council is sticking with him - no resignations, no criticism. Let's talk about that with NPR's Tom Gjelten, who covers religion.
...
[Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?]

Well, one thing is that his official evangelical advisers were with Trump throughout the campaign. They were allied with him politically. That wasn't true for the business advisers. They weren't necessarily supporters. Their role was to share their views on business issues. You could also say that business and religious leaders see their responsibilities differently. Business leaders are sensitive to outside pressure. They have to worry about their customers, their stockholders. Keep in mind, David, how quick many companies are to respond to boycotts, for example.

...they say they see their role more as ministers, as counselors - at least that's what I've heard speaking to some of the evangelicals who have been close to Trump. You know, I pointed out that, of all people, you'd expect the president's religious advisers to have a pretty clear moral compass. So why hasn't a single one resigned in protest over Trump's objectionable comments on Charlottesville? Here's the response I got from one of the advisory council members, Dr. Johnnie Moore.

JOHNNIE MOORE: We believe it would be immoral to resign because, as faith leaders, we have been given an opportunity to speak directly to various members of the administration to provide not just policy counsel but personal counsel. We're personally involved in the lives of all these people, praying for all these people, answering their questions.
...
I went, one by one, through each of these advisory group members, what they'd had to say. And their comments fall into three categories. Some have said nothing at all. They've just kept quiet. Some have defended the president, saying he said all the right things. The others explicitly condemn the white supremacists in much sharper terms than the president used. But still, they stopped short of criticizing Trump himself.
Don't hold any hope for those so-called religious leaders to break rank.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:37 PM on August 18, 2017 [39 favorites]


Bannon May Be Out, But Nationalism Probably Isn’t
The administration may be less internally divided with Bannon gone, but it’s still a long way from being ideologically or politically united.

And ultimately, as this week showed, the Trump administration’s tendency toward chaos and its white nationalist rhetoric come from the president himself. Trump, not Bannon, is the architect of the administration’s nationalist policies. Trump, not Bannon, does the combative press conferences and tweets in defense of Confederate monuments. The chief strategist is gone, but the strategist-in-chief remains.

posted by T.D. Strange at 2:37 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


Maybe he has the inside knowledge and enough sense to hit the bricks and preserve his media career before the indictments are handed down. "The Stephanopoulos Syndrome".
posted by Optamystic at 2:38 PM on August 18, 2017


Does anyone recognize Bannon's lapel pin?

Possibly one of his eight phylacteries (i.e. horcruxes) that he has to feed the soul of an innocent every day. As this one is six sided, he seems to be a fair way into his cycle this month already.
posted by bonehead at 2:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]


We're averaging about one lost Trump administration figure every thread, let's hope this one is for Gorka or Stephen Miller.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:15 PM on August 18 [5 favorites +] [!]


I'm kinda hoping for Donny Johnny...
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is this the thread for screaming? I seem to remember a thread for screaming...
So is this all Trump's way of getting the attention off the Russia business? Remember Russia? Is that all still happening? I seem to remember Trump Jr handing launch codes to Natasha Fatale or something. Ring any bells? So we're starting a nuclear war with N Korea and race war at home? THESE THINGS ARE NOT BETTER MR PRESIDENT!! D:
posted by sexyrobot at 2:41 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Silly sexy robot, cakes are for screaming.
posted by bonehead at 2:41 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


To be perfectly honest, I still can't believe they gave Trump his own TV show.
Everything after that is way past comprehension.
posted by signal at 2:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [27 favorites]


*clears throat * This is the screaming thread.
posted by yoga at 2:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


Kal Penn on leaving his Obama-nominated position on the Presidential Committee on the Arts and the Humanities: Lol @realDonaldTrump you can't break up with us after we broke up with you LMFAO
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [37 favorites]


you'd think a savvy investor like carl icahn wouldn't be selling low like this
posted by murphy slaw at 2:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


How much longer will repub's keep supporting him?

2 more supreme justices.
posted by growabrain at 2:46 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]


Some people (his classmates from Yale) want Steve Mnuchin to resign:

Open Letter
posted by waitangi at 2:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


I mean, what else is he going to say? "I just got humiliated and kicked out by the guy I helped elect. I've just lost all actual power I worked my whole life to have, so now I have to yell on my blog."

Hopefully he'll help do another Clinton Cash, except this time with Paul Ryan etc. as the targets.
posted by Coventry at 2:49 PM on August 18, 2017


Has Sessions been fired for perjury yet?
posted by Yowser at 2:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


CNN says Bannon was fired for his interview with the American Prospect, in which he said war with North Korea would be idiotic and called the Nazis "a collection of clowns."

Meaning, he was fired for not being awful enough for Trump.

Of course, who knows what was actually passing through Trump's mind. He's the little kid in "It's a Good Life"; getting near him will burn you whether he likes you or hates you.
posted by zompist at 2:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


Kal Penn on leaving his Obama-nominated position on the Presidential Committee on the Arts and the Humanities: Lol @realDonaldTrump you can't break up with us after we broke up with you LMFAO

The resignation letter is an acrostic poem--the first letter of each paragraph spells R-E-S-I-S-T.
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 2:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


on the other hand, politico says he was fired for being an asshole that nobody liked and for whom gen. kelly couldn't identify a job function.

i have a feeling this termination was … multifaceted
posted by murphy slaw at 2:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.

You're using the wrong scale; try hours, or perhaps minutes.
posted by acb at 2:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


Bannon, Jared and Russia What I do know is that long before most of us (I include myself) had much idea that Jared Kushner might end up being a key figure in the Russia probe, Steve Bannon seemed to know he would be. Indeed, way back when it briefly seemed that Trump might fire Bannon in the Spring, Bannon seemed to know that reports of Kushner consolidating power in the White House were greatly exaggerated and that he’d be fine. Why? Again, because of Russia. To paraphrase Roger Stone, he seemed to know that it would soon be Jared’s time in the barrel.

How did he know? I got no idea. But he did. I figure people in the close, close inner circle all knew. That’s just a surmise on my part. But if he knew that I bet he knows a lot more.


Bannon will surely be on Mueller's list of subpoenas.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Still binge-watching the West Wing... Bannocks for breakfast tomorrow. Bollocks on the news. What a life...
posted by Namlit at 2:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Some people (his classmates from Yale) want Steve Mnuchin to resign:

That letter is good. Lotta signatures. Gives me an idea: can universities take away diplomas for, I dunno, being a racist, kleptocrat bag-o-dicks? Don't you need a degree to hold most of the higher-level jobs in the government?
posted by sexyrobot at 2:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's a good thing we don't have a Parliamentary system, where Trump could call for a new election any time he felt like it. We would be having an election every day or so until he lost.

I'm not getting the part where this is a good thing.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


you'd think a savvy investor like carl icahn wouldn't be selling low like this

a savvy investor like carl icahn understands the concept of a sunk cost
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also, I finally figured it all out. Have you noticed how someone gets fired from the White House every week? Yeah. He still thinks he is filming the Apprentice.
posted by sexyrobot at 3:03 PM on August 18, 2017 [41 favorites]


No, the government would have lost the confidence of the House with the fail of the repeal and replace bill, Democrats would have come in with a solid majority and Prime Minister Hillary Clinton would have already gotten Medicare-For-All through Parliament by now.

It's true, a Parliamentary system can only produce good things, which is why the UK is currently a sterling, unimpeachable model of good governance and competence.
posted by Sangermaine at 3:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]


Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?

Because they're waiting to support Pence's presidency.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [60 favorites]


Going around social media.

Your first name + your last name = Your Nazi-fighting name.
posted by chris24 at 3:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [151 favorites]


He seems to be banking on keeping his base happy with red meat for the next 3.5 years, and retaining the same razor thin margin of swing votes in OH and other states that gave him the EC victory.

He barely won with establishment Republican support ranging from grudging to full-throated. I think the Republican establishment attitude at this point ranges from dignity-wraithed to actively hostile. I'm not entirely certain he could win a primary, the way things are going.
posted by jackbishop at 3:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


They (the Evangelicals) could hasten a Pence-i-dency, and burnish their reputations, by bailing on Trump and reconvening when a true man of God occupies the Oval Office.
posted by notyou at 3:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, I finally figured it all out. Have you noticed how someone gets fired from the White House every week? Yeah. He still thinks he is filming the Apprentice.
posted by sexyrobot at 3:03 PM on August 18 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


Just got this flash of sort of a reverse Truman Show deal, where everyone knows it's not a TV show except Trump, and they keep up the ruse because they can use it to get him to do ridiculous things that feather their own nests. Trump escapes to his own house periodically, because he thinks he's off-set then, and can let his hair down (heh). It would make great sit-com, with Jared and the kids wacky antics, betting each other what they can get Donny Johnny to do that's more outrageous than the last time. Bit by bit, they also get him to turn over his holdings by making him think the documents aren't real. Hence the winery he doesn't really own. Comedy gold, I tells ya.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


on the other hand, politico says he was fired for being an asshole that nobody liked and for whom gen. kelly couldn't identify a job function.

lol this is grounds to fire each individual in the entire administration
posted by poffin boffin at 3:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


but guys remember when obama wore a tan suit
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [64 favorites]


on the other hand, politico says he was fired for being an asshole that nobody liked and for whom gen. kelly couldn't identify a job function.

i have a feeling this termination was … multifaceted


I think everyone else decided to gang up to manipulate 45 to fire Bannon because Bannon is an asshole and everybody hates him

I think 45 was vulnerable to that manipulation because Bannon gave an interview where he insulted Nazis

Worst of all timelines, as ever
posted by schadenfrau at 3:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]


So now both Scaramucci and Bannon have given unsolicited career-ending interviews. What's going on here? Why are people shooting themselves in the foot like this?

The Mooch was a buffoon but, as Kuttner notes in the American Prospect article, Bannon is "probably the most media-savvy person in America." It's simply not believable that Bannon, as he apparently claims, didn't know this was going to be on the record.
posted by Sangermaine at 3:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


Details on the two counter protests in Boston tomorrow. Organizers of one of those protests, which will include a march from Roxbury to Boston Common, have more on their minds than just Nazis.

Mayor Walsh said at least 500 Boston cops will be patrolling the Common tomorrow. Transit Police, meanwhile, tweeted this out:
Those who attempt to engage in violence on the #MBTA will be dealt with swiftly by Transit Police officers. #PEACE
posted by adamg at 3:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


So is this all Trump's way of getting the attention off the Russia business? Remember Russia?

Yes. For me at least, on top of all the more obvious reaction that I share with all of you to this week's events, it has me saying, "Come on Mueller, hurry please."

I don't think there is much on this earth that could actually stop Mueller at this point and I'm sure he knows that this one has to be by-the-book. I have faith that he'll get it done and get it done right. I'm not sure if him getting fire would actually do anything to deter him.

If Trump is still in office after that's all done and out in the open then I don't know.

This last week has just added more stuff to the heap of impeachment worthy stuff, it hasn't replaced it.
posted by VTX at 3:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


My current theory on the Bannon interview is that he wanted to get his voice into a progressive publication. He knew the axe was coming, and he knew that after that, he was going to be "that ex-staffer on the bigot media network" - he only had one shot at getting his message out.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Prediction: BannonBart goes to war against Fox; the president is delighted that news outlets are FIGHTING FOR HIS LOVE; Fox becomes an ideologically-suspect fake news org (says Breitbart, gleefully) and BannonBart rakes in the market share as the real supporter of the administration, while pushing the Mercer line. Meanwhile, J. Murdoch leverages his million-dollar ADL donation into a network conversion story, drawing in a new and different fan base. Everybody wins! Except America.
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?

For one, it's possible that they just really like him, but I think they've painted themselves into a corner. They already gave Trump a pass on sexual harassment, violent rhetoric, and racist comments during the election, claiming that he was God's imperfect vehicle to bring justice on the moral issues that matter most to them. There's really nothing new that they could use as justification for changing that stance, and their own constituencies are Trump's most consistent supporters.

As a former evangelical who has deep respect for the members of that community who do try to live out the priorities of Jesus, this grieves me deeply. They sold their souls for a Justice Gorsuch, and ended whatever moral authority evangelicalism still had.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 3:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [65 favorites]


He still thinks he is filming the Apprentice.

In the world of reality television, people who are hate-watching are just as valuable as any other viewers.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


I can also believe that 45 thinks lots of drama and chaos will distract the investigation, because he's never in his life seen methodical work done by someone with extensive resources and a firm goal.

Bannon's leaving will create a memo of new things to investigate; it'll be added to the bottom of the stack and they'll get to it when they're done following the current money-trail.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


OMG! I know the Alex Ross Coffee Splasher too! Just slightly, but I do! I don't want to out him by name, but he is a really good guy, and his work has been mentioned on the Blue many times. Mr. Palmcorder and I had a protracted, mutual squee over it, which seriously confused the dog.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 3:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]


Evangelical Christians are, at the end of the day, authoritarian fascists strongly aligned with racists and with a patriarchal worldview that is basically medieval. We can dispense with the notion they have any morality at all beyond that. So it's a perfect fit, really - if they start to quit it's purely strategic/because they think Pence can do more to further their cause.
posted by Artw at 3:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [89 favorites]


Susan Hennessey asks some tough questions about Bannon returning immediately to Breitbart:
Will Bannon be subject to prepublication review consistent with his obligations as someone who held a clearance?

Worth asking what plan is here. Will he be submitting everything to EOP for sign off? NSC? Including pieces by others he substantively edits

This can be a very complex area (trust me). Bannon was fired this afternoon, in ed meeting this evening. Not much time to implement a plan.
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [64 favorites]




"Per your request, "We Didn't Start the Fire" for 2017. As appropriate, I sacrificed strict chronology on the altar of poetic license." — @20002ist
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]


You know, in retrospect, it was a bad idea to put Toonces in charge of our nation.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [25 favorites]


Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?

Because American evangelical Christians are very often completely and totally full of shit.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]


So is this all Trump's way of getting the attention off the Russia business? Remember Russia?

Mueller is not distracted.
posted by chris24 at 3:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [48 favorites]


Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?

Because conservative evangelical Christianity is white supremacy with a tissue-paper-thin veneer of religious rhetoric.
posted by dirigibleman at 3:31 PM on August 18, 2017 [91 favorites]


Don't forget the patriarchy and military adventurism.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:32 PM on August 18, 2017 [16 favorites]




Because conservative evangelical Christianity is white supremacy with a tissue-paper-thin veneer of religious rhetoric.

This. Rightwing Christianity makes a lot more sense when you realize Jesus is the cover story.
posted by chris24 at 3:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]


Why are the evangelicals sticking by him when business advisers quit?

Because American evangelical Christians are very often completely and totally full of shit.


Well that too.

But I also know many sincere Christians and I can't fathom how they are stomaching the highjacking of their faith. I see a few standing up but there's a lot of silence out there right now. It breaks my heart - the church had a positive impact on my life (even though I'm not what you would call a true believer any longer).
posted by double bubble at 3:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


Mueller is not distracted.

But he is taking notes...
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


In which Steve Bannon calls up the Weekly Standard: Bannon: 'The Trump Presidency That We Fought For, and Won, Is Over.'
“The Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over,” Bannon said Friday, shortly after confirming his departure. “We still have a huge movement, and we will make something of this Trump presidency. But that presidency is over. It’ll be something else. And there’ll be all kinds of fights, and there’ll be good days and bad days, but that presidency is over.”
...
“Now, it’s gonna be Trump,” Bannon said. “The path forward on things like economic nationalism and immigration, and his ability to kind of move freely … I just think his ability to get anything done – particularly the bigger things, like the wall, the bigger, broader things that we fought for, it’s just gonna be that much harder.”

Bannon assigns blame for the thwarting of his program on “the West Wing Democrats,” but holds special disdain for the Washington establishment – especially those Republicans who have, he believes, willfully failed to provide Trump with meaningful victories.

And, he believes, things are about to get worse for Trump. “There’s about to be a jailbreak of these moderate guys on the Hill” – a stream of Republican dissent, which could become a flood [pjb note: sorry to mix metaphors, but I can’t decide if ‘jail break’ is sufficiently self-explanatory].
...
“I think they’re going to try to moderate him,” he says. “I think he’ll sign a clean debt ceiling, I think you’ll see all this stuff. His natural tendency – and I think you saw it this week on Charlottesville – his actual default position is the position of his base, the position that got him elected. I think you’re going to see a lot of constraints on that. I think it’ll be much more conventional.
...
“I feel jacked up,” he says. “Now I’m free. I’ve got my hands back on my weapons. Someone said, ‘it’s Bannon the Barbarian.’ I am definitely going to crush the opposition. There’s no doubt. I built a fucking machine at Breitbart. And now I’m about to go back, knowing what I know, and we’re about to rev that machine up. And rev it up we will do.”
This is the least of the issues here, but I can't tell if that note was intended to be in the final piece or was intended for the author's own editor only.
posted by zachlipton at 3:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]


Hmm. Bannon offered his resignation August 7?

Nothing super special in Trump's Tweets that day (it was Senator Richard Blumenthal Day, that day, remember that everyone?), although he was mad at the NYT and others for understating his many accomplishments so far and the size of his ... base ... and failing to report on the UN sanctions on DPRK. Then more Senator Blumenthal!

TrumpTwitterArchive: essential and searchable.
posted by notyou at 3:37 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


But I also know many sincere Christians and I can't fathom how they are stomaching the highjacking of their faith.

By their fruits you shall know them.

They bought it, they own it, it's no longer a hijacking of their faith; it is their faith. Evangelical Christianity no longer worships God, it worships Mammon.
posted by Justinian at 3:37 PM on August 18, 2017 [66 favorites]


Mueller is not distracted.

To expand on this, there's really nothing we can do about Russia right now. Mueller and investigative reporters are going to take care of that if there's any "that" there. We are spending our time doing exactly what we should be; fighting Nazis, protecting the vulnerable, resisting his agenda, etc. If Trump wants to implode to distract us from Russia, fine. It's actually focusing us on better uses of our energies at this time.
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [33 favorites]


And to be clear - I never was part of the evangelical movement, but I really would have thought the overall Christian community would decry this insanity. This just isn't the religion I learned about in Sunday school.
posted by double bubble at 3:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


'I feel jacked up,' he says.

Good for you, jagoff.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:40 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


We are spending our time doing exactly what we should be; fighting Nazis

For fuck's sake if you told me two years ago that in mid 2017 this sentence would not only make sense but be something with which I completely agreed I would think you were an insane person.

Now work in how Juggalos and Teen Vogue are staunch allies in the fight!
posted by Justinian at 3:41 PM on August 18, 2017 [136 favorites]


One thing I found interesting from the past week was Bannon dismissing white supremacists out of hand as if they were just patsies for his grander ambitions.

These people have zero loyalty, and will throw anyone under the bus if the moment is right.

With infinite buses...
posted by sutt at 3:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


Candidate Trump Said He Would Take Down a Confederate Flag
When he was still running for president in June 2015, Trump was asked whether or not the Confederate flag flying above the South Carolina state house needed to be taken down. "I think it probably does, and I think they should put it in the museum," he replied. "Let it go. Respect whatever it is you have to respect because it was a point in time, and put it in a museum. But I would take it down, yes."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]


"Televangelists" were pioneering Fake TV long before Trump's first appearance on a WWE Fake Wrestling show. They're all part of the same Brotherhood of Kayfabe.

"I built a fucking machine at Breitbart. "
Which reminds me, how's the boycott of Breitbart advertisers going? That's one machine that should be running out of gas very quickly.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


Bannon: I built a fucking machine at Breitbart.

Ew. NSFW!
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 3:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [82 favorites]


I can't help but feel like Bannon purposefully went on the record so he could get "fired" and now his publications and the Trump admin can be in a messaging lockstep. He will also be able to take hard racist stances Trump can only imply and profit cleanly from his WH connections/sources without fear of Meuller. This all seems way too obvious and deliberate too me. The so-called squabble wasn't even over anything debatable. Trump either knows the obvious military realty of South Korea or his dementia has progressed even more than any one has thought but it's impossible to conceive his generals are telling him anything other than that.
posted by cyphill at 3:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


And to be clear - I never was part of the evangelical movement, but I really would have thought the overall Christian community would decry this insanity. This just isn't the religion I learned about in Sunday school.

There were lots of Christians there along with people of other faiths on Friday and Saturday. We in the Christian Left gave up on those in the Christian Right saying or doing anything as our allies a long time ago.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [36 favorites]


Icahn is out!

"I'm evil but I'm not THAT evil." [fake]
posted by srboisvert at 3:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


I really would have thought the overall Christian community would decry this insanity. This just isn't the religion I learned about in Sunday school.

I went to a Baptist Sunday school in a town in Arkansas with 500 people and 7 churches. This is exactly the religion they taught - everyone do what the powerful white men in charge tell you to, and take care of your family and close friends with whatever resources they leave to you.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]


chris24: "So is this all Trump's way of getting the attention off the Russia business? Remember Russia?

Mueller is not distracted.
"

I was going to say that. Trump can distract all he wants, Mueller and his grand juries are just going to keep chucking along with the investigation.
posted by octothorpe at 3:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


Now work in how Juggalos and Teen Vogue are staunch allies in the fight!

JOIN THE POPULAR FRONT
posted by The Whelk at 3:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


Here's the first resignation from the Evangelical Advisory Board, from A.R. Bernard. Reads as some mild and mealy-mouthed shit to me, but I'm not Christian, so whatever.
posted by yasaman at 3:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


"I'm evil but I'm not THAT evil." [fake]

Yeah normally I imagine the moderate Republicans like Lord Humongous trying to hold back that red mohawk guy who is the crazy wings. "Keep it systemic! Keep it systemic!"
posted by fleacircus at 3:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


Bannon assigns blame for the thwarting of his program on “the West Wing Democrats,”

Man, those Democrats are wily, thwarting Trump left and right despite no majorities in the legislature or positions in the White House. Unless he specifically means Jaren and Ivanka, which is ludicrous and stupid. Or unless he think President Bartlet is still hiding in there somewhere.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]


Joe Manchin ain't stupid. Rules out serving as energy secretary under Trump.
posted by spitbull at 3:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]


One thing I found interesting from the past week was Bannon dismissing white supremacists out of hand as if they were just patsies for his grander ambitions.

He's negging them, this is a dominance display and an opening salvo in his bid to reclaim alpha status in their pack. They are directionless clowns because they need Daddy Bannon to give them direction. Fascism is explicitly about the rank and file needing a firm hand to guide them.
posted by contraption at 3:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


Lots of people of faith including Christians stood against the white supremacists in Charlottesville.
And Christian leaders are speaking out.
And yes we have to do more to root out the christian terrorists from our midst.
posted by SyraCarol at 3:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]


So that Carl Ichan resignation, not so much a resignation, per Patrick Radden Keefe.
I've been reporting on Carl Icahn's role as an adviser to Trump. Monday, in an email to me, the White House fired him. Today, he resigned.

So tonight, my piece posts early. Read all about it:
New Yorker: Carl Icahn’s Failed Raid on Washington: "Was President Trump’s richest adviser focussed on helping the country—or his own bottom line?"
posted by zachlipton at 3:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


wait wait guys I'm not done catching up in the last thread
posted by numaner at 3:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


We've achieved the singularity: we have President* whose only competency is running for office.

HE LOST THE POPULAR VO- oh what's the use.
posted by zarq at 3:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


wait wait guys I'm not done catching up in the last thread

We survived another week.
posted by zarq at 3:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]


Bannon says that he once confidently believed in the prospect of success for that version of the Trump presidency he now says is over. Asked what the turning point was, he says, “It’s the Republican establishment. The Republican establishment has no interest in Trump’s success on this. They’re not populists, they’re not nationalists, they had no interest in his program. Zero. It was a half-hearted attempt at Obamacare reform, it was no interest really on the infrastructure, they’ll do a very standard Republican version of taxes.

You know, he's insane, but he's very savvy on some things. "Economic populism" or "economic nationalism" was never going to work in the Republican party. Republicans do not want to preserve the welfare state, not even for white people only, they want to end it and give all the money to rich people. They don't want infrastructure, they want to hand that money to the rich instead. They don't want the jobs to come back, they want rich people to have total control over economic futures. They don't want a wall, that's just government spending. The don't want tax reform, they want tax cuts for rich people. They certainly don't want a millionaires tax, or a trade war with China. Republican want tax cuts for rich people, and redistrubuting every last dollar of federal spending that's not spent on the rich, to be spent on the rich. That's pretty much it. Everything else is convincing the not-rich to put them in power by any means necessary to enact that plutocratic takeover agenda.

There was a real fear that Trump could crack that, take from the Democratic populism playbook and combine that with ethnonationalism to form a new coalition of white resentment, and rewarding that racial backlash with handouts on a even more racial dividing line. They're not going to be able to do that, and never were, because Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell want tax cuts for the rich more than they even want to stay in power. They're not willing to back off of never spending another dollar in federal money, even for direct handouts to their base voters. That was always going to be a problem with the Bannon "economic nationalism" plan. Republicans are fine with the ethnonationalist state, just not with spending any amount of money to create it.

But, even if Trump is out soon and Pence takes over, Trump exposed a new path to winning. America is racially primed for white backlash. A winning coalition of voters is willing to be bought off to sell out small d liberalism in favor of racial animus, if the price is right. They thought that's what they were voting for with Trump, and they're not going to be happy they didn't get the payoffs. Democrats will have the chance to buy them back, but the danger of a smarter Trumpism coalition behind a less insane, more competent, but just as authoritarian and racially motivated candidate is going to be there for forever going forward.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [45 favorites]


The front page of tomorrow's NY Daily News.

Alt-Ctrl-Deleted
posted by chris24 at 4:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]


Thank god for, uh, good (?) news. I've spent the last three days arguing back and forth with a friend of twelve years over his "what trump said wasn't that bad, and antifa are the real villains here" post on Facebook. It's been interesting, seeing both friends of mine who have no idea who he is, and friends of his, who similarly don't know me, jumping into the ongoing mess. It's been exhausting, with maybe the lone highlight being someone asking another friend what the hell they were thinking by "liking" the original post.

In other words, thanks for getting fired, Bannon. That was great news to wake up to. I mean, it's a goddamn shame you were ever there in the first place, and your continued existence is a stain upon the world, but hey, at least you're out of the White House.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


We survived another week.

Most of us.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [107 favorites]


“I built a fucking machine at Breitbart.”

Is it concave or convex, to fit either sex, and exceedingly easy to clean?
posted by acb at 4:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]


I went to my first meeting last Saturday of YouCanVote which is a non-partisan, grass roots group registering people around the state. This was their first meeting in Wake County because they are still expanding. Tomorrow they will be registering people at the NCSU Packaplooza and they have other events in other counties. They will also be doing Fair Maps canvassing, educating people about the need for nonpartisan redistricting.

Tuesday the state will be holding public hearings on the topic of redistricting at 4:00 in Raleigh, Charlotte, Jamestown, Fayetteville, Weldon, and Hudson. People are urged to go and voice their concerns. There is also a phone banking event in Durham Monday, calling people to notify them about this public hearing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]


and ended whatever moral authority evangelicalism still had.

Evangelicals are the foundation of Christian fundamentalism in this country, which is deeply intolerant and disrespectful toward (and frankly dangerous to) women, gay people, trans people, racial and ethnic minorities, members of other religions and anyone else living outside their strict biblical worldview. They cloak themselves in hatred in order to oppress others and their hypocrisy regarding what they consider evil in other people vs. how they comport themselves would frankly be pathetic if so many of us weren't living in their cross hairs. Instead it's astonishing and shocking.

This incident didn't end their "moral authority." They never possessed even the tiniest shred of moral authority to begin with.
posted by zarq at 4:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [91 favorites]


Corey Robin:
All those people talking about civil war after Charlottesville were right. Only it's going to be within the Republican Party. We are in classic endgame mode here, with various factions of the ruling regime readying for an all-out war against each other, not realizing—consciously—the ground is falling away beneath them, yet realizing—dimly, unconsciously—that it is, and that this is their last chance to get what they can out of it. So you have the desperate race by the establishment to stack the judiciary, much like the Romanovs hoarding the family china as they prepare to flee Petograd, and the more violent assertions of white supremacy by the alt-right on the ground. And now it looks like they'll be fighting—and hopefully destroying—each other.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


There are as many different versions of Christianity as there are Christians. And the Republican party has been actively courting the religious Right for generations; it's part of their standard strategy.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]




Man, with all this going on and a weekend to brood and glower, Trump should be royally pissed by the time his Phoenix rally starts next Tuesday. What are the odds he triples and quadruples down on the flagrant white nationalism and does like an hour-long version of the Very Fine People presser?
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]


I read the Mayor of Phoenix, asked him to postpone his rally. We can always cast a curse on the air conditioning system.
posted by Oyéah at 4:23 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


I fantasize about Jesus coming back and righteously smiting all the right-wing evangelical "Christians." Because they sure as hell aren't what the teachings of Jesus were about.

I'm not talking about individual Christians, or liberal Christian churches, just the right-wing fundagelicals who want to control society and remake it into Gilead.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm preaching a children's sermon Sunday on the story of Jesus and the Canaanite woman from Matthew 15--the only place in the gospels where someone wins an argument with Jesus. We're going to talk about why you can't be racist and a Christian.
posted by EarBucket at 4:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [75 favorites]


Are Nazis as American as Apple Pie?
(Project Syndicate)

And Corey Robin's incisive commentary:
This is a good piece that shows how far the US is from Nazi Germany, by the guy who wrote that book everyone was praising that examines the connections between Jim Crow and Nazi race law. But I think there are two takeaways that I'd stress here, which get into the larger question why it's a mistake to frame Trump as "fascist" or "authoritarian."

The first is that those words—and whatever underlying analysis they may be accompanied by—tend to obscure the most toxic *long-term* threat and danger of Trump. Which is his court appointments. The rhetoric of authoritarianism and fascism tends to suggest a regime of lawlessness, that consolidates its power through its assaults on the rule of law. Trump is doing the opposite: consolidating the power of his regime through the most ordinary and legal and constitutional means possible. His rhetorical extravagance doesn't consolidate his power; it does just the opposite. His moves against prosecutors and the like: every time he does it, it generates an even greater backlash. Trump fired Comey; he got Mueller investigating him on an even wider and more potent front. He suggests he may fire Mueller, and Congress makes moves to make it almost impossible for him to do so. With the courts, it's different: there, through this tried and true American institution, he sees long-term and permanent gains. The problem here is not authoritarianism or fascism; it's constitutionally appointed judges who'll be with us for a very long time. Again, that's what the rhetoric obscures. [there's more]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]


Men’s-Rights Activism Is the Gateway Drug for the Alt-Right

"Gee, what a surprise," said literally every woman everywhere.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:32 PM on August 18, 2017 [196 favorites]


Patty Nourse Culbertson (first-hand remarks on Charlottesville):
My daughter and I went to the rally on Saturday. I want to tell you a little about that. But first, I would like people to understand what it was like in the days leading up to the Alt Right Rally.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]


The problem here is not authoritarianism or fascism; it's constitutionally appointed judges who'll be with us for a very long time

As we learned in WWII, it's easy to dismiss or excuse threats when you're not really going to be directly affected by them.

Or even if you are.
posted by zarq at 4:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Sky, Julius Goat:
Perhaps this will be hard to read. Laments often are.

It may bring you comfort, or it may make you angry. It may make you think more of me, or less. It may offend you. Rest assured, it offends me.

So be it.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:35 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Are Nazis as American as Apple Pie?


Well Socialism is.
posted by The Whelk at 4:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


The problem here is not authoritarianism or fascism; it's constitutionally appointed judges who'll be with us for a very long time

As we learned in WWII, it's easy to dismiss or excuse threats when you're not really going to be directly affected by them.


Honestly, fighting over which of the huge spectrum of threats we face from Trump is worst really only wastes a lot of air. The climate change stuff is terrifying, the nuclear war stuff is terrifying, the judicial system, the systematic threats to marginalized groups, the raging incompetence, the shit I'm not even listing because trying to get all of it would make this thread too freakin' long on day one. All of it is serious.

All of it is The Worst. All of it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [52 favorites]


Remember when Trump was going to hire 5,000 new CBP agents? lol (LA Times, Joseph Tanfani):
Five days after President Trump took office, he signed an executive order that promised a swift, sharp crackdown on illegal immigration — immediate construction of a massive border wall, quick hiring of 5,000 new Border Patrol agents and stepped-up deportation of undocumented migrants.

“Beginning today, the United States of America gets back control of its borders,” Trump declared at the Jan. 25 ceremony at the Department of Homeland Security, which controls federal immigration agencies.

Seven months later, construction of the wall has yet to begin, the number of Border Patrol officers has actually dropped by 220, and immigration agents are on track to deport 10,000 fewer people this year than in President Obama’s last year in office, the latest figures show.
Also, turns out being a brownshirt thug and/or la migra is low in job satisfaction:
In a 2016 survey of job satisfaction in federal agencies, Customs and Border Protection ranked 291 out of 305 agencies, even with a slight improvement in the scores. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the group that handles deportations, came in at 299.
posted by yasaman at 4:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [40 favorites]



Men’s-Rights Activism Is the Gateway Drug for the Alt-Right (The Cut)


I was attempting to explain this to my parents the other day. Trying to explain being "Red Pilled" to them was quite the treat. I finally just said 'look long story short an argument can be made that one of the main reasons we have Trump because a bunch of mostly white guys got pissed that they can't get women to do what they want when they want and ended up as white supremists. Drilled down, they can't get laid like they think they should and boom we got Trump.
posted by Jalliah at 4:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [69 favorites]


There is a theory, apparently borne out by statistics, that large populations of surplus, unmarriageable young men are a strong predictor of a country's likelihood of going to war. This and the MRA/red-pill thing makes one wonder how much historical misery stems from the large-scale effects of sexual frustration.
posted by acb at 4:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [36 favorites]


...they can't get laid like they think they should and boom we got Trump.
Who can get any woman anytime making him their perfect leader. For anyone who thought the "TMZ tape" of him talking about his conquests actually hurt his campaign... nah.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


Would it not follow that Breitbart gets booted too?

I very much doubt it. As much as they should be seen as equivalent, Breitbart and Stormer are very much not treated that way.

Which reminds me, how's the boycott of Breitbart advertisers going?

Sleeping Giants is awesome, but as long as Breitbart is bankrolled by fascist billionaires, there's only so much it can do.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


...how's the boycott of Breitbart advertisers going? That's one machine that should be running out of gas very quickly.

I assume that Mercer will continue to fund Breitbart for as long as he perceives it to serve his interests.
posted by Coventry at 4:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


> It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.

You're using the wrong scale; try hours, or perhaps minutes.


.....Yeah, it's still going to be at _0_.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]



So Bannon is now saying he's going to crush all of Trumps opposition with his machine. My speculation skill is at an all time level of dysfunction. How much do people think he will actually be smart enough to do? I know he's not stupid but do people think he has enough of a handle on what is going on and ability to manipulate it to his own ends?
I'll admit my paranoia is running rampart that using his new found WH insider knowledge he'll be some evil genius or something. My perspective is shot.
posted by Jalliah at 4:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel bad for the sleeping giants people, who don't seem to realize they the real source of funding for Breitbart and Rebel media isn't advertising, but wingnut welfare (and, for Rebel, donations)
posted by Yowser at 4:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


Did I miss this story being posted in one of the threads?

NYT: Neil Gorsuch Speech at Trump Hotel Raises Ethical Questions

I had a rant that I was going to write earlier in response to A Manitoba comment re: Trump starting his re-election campaign.

The gist:
I had forgotten it had literally started day one of his presidency. His first rally was before the Gorsuch nomination. IIRC, the Rs weaseling out of allowing a confirmation hearing for Garland was that Dems (Biden specifically?) had previously considered not doing hearings once campaigns had started, so the Americans should cast their vote first and then allow whoever wins to nominate.

Of course, Dems never followed through with that, and I still contend it was weaseling, in that it was really "Obama is a lame duck. We can't lose anything by pulling this move." If the SC position had been open 4 years prior, they would have lost a lot of face with that tactic.

Anyway, consistency should have had the Rs block Gorsuch nomination for either the filing of re-election paperwork or re-election rally. I can think of a dozen ways the Rs can defend the "difference", but I am still mad. I would say I can't believe the Dems have not gone after this at all, but I am sure the Repub party line on all the media would be "sour grapes".
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 4:58 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


If Bannon were actually able to crush all of Trump's opposition with his machine, surely he would have been doing it for the last seven months.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]


I suspect a lot of Bannon's motivation is that he has been unable to make as much money in the White House than operating his own "machine". NEVER forget self-interest and individual greed as primary motivators for anybody in Trump's circle...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who can get any woman anytime making him their perfect leader. For anyone who thought the "TMZ tape" of him talking about his conquests actually hurt his campaign... nah.

Trump won white women, too.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [13 favorites]


Bannon had to know that interview was a direct challenge to those who wanted him gone. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he knew he was toast at the time and this was a parting shot. But I think the key part of the interview was when Bannon said that he was going to get rid of some State Department officials. All Kelly had to do was point that out to Trump, "He's claiming your powers, Sir." That, and the fact that Bannon was credited as the political genius who elected a nobody, that got under Trump's skin. Does this take some heat off Tillerson? Who can say. Dissecting palace politics under despotism is really difficult.
posted by CCBC at 5:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


the real source of funding for Breitbart and Rebel media isn't advertising, but wingnut welfare (and, for Rebel, donations)

Wingnut welfare is a big problem. I wish there was a way to confiscate the Mercer wealth and redistribute it (which would solve much of the poverty in the US right there), or at least overturn Citizen's United. It's one of those hard-to-solve problems that are eating away at our democracy, like the Electoral College.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [31 favorites]


This and the MRA/red-pill thing makes one wonder how much historical misery stems from the large-scale effects of sexual frustration.

Can we please not do this? It's as gross as the "celibacy turns priests into pedophiles" canard. Many, many, many, many, many people whose personal lives don't work out as they hope somehow manage not to channel their disappointment into hate and violence, and actual sexual frustration is in most cases super easy to fix, 100% solo.

If adolescent boys and young men are disproportionately attracted to horrible extremism, that's more about the large-scale effects of their culturally reinforced ginormous sense of "world owes me awe" entitlement and fragility.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [183 favorites]


As soon as it looks like he's finally out of next-things to turn to, and he seems almost alone or possibly in danger of something significant happening that could take him out of office, that's when we're going to war.
posted by cashman at 5:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


WaPo, Darryl Fears: National parks put a ban on bottled water to ease pollution. Trump just sided with the lobby that fought it. In which NPS reverses an Obama-era policy to not sell bottled water at some parks to reduce trash three weeks after a bottled water lobbyist is confirmed as deputy interior secretary.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [61 favorites]


Sleeping Giants is a Twitter/Facebook account that encourages boycotts of advertisers on Breitbart etc.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


It doesn't fix or resolve anything, but I'm still really fucking glad Bannon will no longer be an employee of the federal government. Every once in a while the thought that keeps me up at night is: what if Trump had actually turned out to be the populist demagogue he intermittently pretended to be while campaigning? The populist Bannon seemed to believe he could be? How much more damage would that version of Trump be able to do (which is not to diminish the catastrophic and deeply tragic damage he's currently doing)? And who will it be that next runs that playbook?
posted by penduluum at 5:29 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]




May I just repost this comment verbatim?

I was trying to explain conflict of interest 5yo style. I said imagine if the new mayor owned a water bottling factory and immediately got rid of all the water fountains in the park. You'd say the guy that sells water shouldn't be in charge of the water fountains. It's in the public interest to have water available freely, especially in places where people will be walking about in the sun. It's the water bottler's private interest to sell water. So it's a conflict of interest for the mayor to keep selling water. That's why Trump is an asshole.

Not exactly the same thing, but now I wonder what Trump has to do with Big Water.
posted by adept256 at 5:36 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]




It doesn't fix or resolve anything, but I'm still really fucking glad Bannon will no longer be an employee of the federal government.

Wait, ... Bannon ... Bannon. Oh right, that guy on the National Security Council. Why, what happened?
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:37 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


I feel bad for the sleeping giants people, who don't seem to realize they the real source of funding for Breitbart and Rebel media isn't advertising, but wingnut welfare (and, for Rebel, donations)

It is near certain they are aware of that, for this is one tactic of many to employ against such media, a diversity of tactics. Breitbart losing 90% of its ad revenue is significant. It is not a simple binary; targeting advertisers does not preclude the pursuit of alternate strategies of resistance.
posted by standardasparagus at 5:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


@blakehounshell: "Interesting thing about Bannon is so far he has been untouched by the Russia investigation. Never a whisper about him."

I've been curious about that myself. Is this true? I guess its not impossible, but it seems unlikely that he'd be clean.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:39 PM on August 18, 2017


Not if he has CA connections, those guys are deep in the dirt.
posted by Artw at 5:41 PM on August 18, 2017


I can believe Bannon has nothing to do with the Russia thing. Russia is about Trump's debt and financials, and Bannon has fuckall to do with that.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]


It doesn't fix or resolve anything, but I'm still really fucking glad Bannon will no longer be an employee of the federal government.

It's one less terrible person being paid with our taxes, and it's one more contribution to the disarray that derails and slows down the passing of godawful legislation. Not that the executive orders and cabinet assholes aren't harming people and dismantling important things, not that Gorsuch isn't dreadful even as a one-off, but when you think about how much worse things could be eight months in if this were a competent and efficient Republican White House and Congress. . . .
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


Which, ironically, means Bannon is the one guy in all of this who might skate LOL.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bannon has not been publicly implicated in Russiagate, yet, but he was the official campaign manager on election day, and through Comey Letter II. If there was coordination like we all are pretty sure there was, with voter information passed to Russian intelligence and timed releases of stolen emails, he knew about it and more than likely directed some part of the coordination.

We don't know what Mueller has on anyone, but Bannon was there for the crunch of the campaign. It's almost impossible to believe he could've kept his hands clean with the level of treason suspected.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


I would honestly be surprised if Bannon knew nothing about the collusion. Dude seems to like to have his fingers in every damn thing, if for no other reason than to be in the loop with the cool kids.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


My gut feeling is that Bannon knew exactly what he was doing and he kept his distance from anything dirty. He always viewed this as a temp gig to advance his own agenda. That's not to say that he didn't know what was going on, especially when it came to bots amplifying the messages on Breitbart, but my hunch is that he stayed safely on the side of "not part of the conspiracy" with this day in mind.

What's really fascinating to me is how darn sure Bannon seems to be that Kushner is dirty though, and that he's willing to say that to all sorts of people. I posted last night about how that was buried in a BuzzFeed article, T.D. Strange posted Josh Marshall's take today, Joe Scarborough was talking in June about how Bannon kept saying he was going to take Kushner down because of Russia, etc...

Aside from the utter stupidity of the idea that you can take down the President's son-in-law for collusion without somehow hurting the President, why was Bannon so sure? What did he know, if anything?
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [21 favorites]


What did he know, if anything?

These people are stupid and indiscreet. Bannon probably knows everything.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [17 favorites]


Aside from the utter stupidity of the idea that you can take down the President's son-in-law for collusion without somehow hurting the President, why was Bannon so sure? What did he know, if anything?

Utter stupidity seems likely. I know Bannon has this reputation for being some kind of Anti-Obama playing 11th dimensional chess, but I am forever asking myself how he attained this status as Sinister Mastermind. Only thing dude managed to do was get nominated, which even a buffoon like Mooch was able to do. He has blundered his way through everything before or since. What am I missing here? To me he seems like a fool with all the intelligence of a YouTube comment but the self-importance of an elder statesman. Is it because he doesn't talk to the press much (well, until recently and spectacularly)?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


On the other hand, Bannon's ties to Cambridge Analytica could mean he's in over his head in collusion too.
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [28 favorites]


WaPo, Darryl Fears

You and the rest of us, Darryl.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]


One thing that has stuck in my head from the last couple of days was something said on a podcast. Dr. Avis Jones-DeWeever was a guest on The Trump Scorecard and said she believed that Trump siding with the thugs in Charlottesville means we have entered a 2nd post-reconstruction period.
A period of retrenchment and terror for Black people and other people of color and Jewish people....DJT has unleashed the most vile elements of this country and told them they can do what they will. They know they have their man in office.
This coming on top of reports of casual conversations about the return of slavery was like a bucket of cold water. I had been getting a little too gleeful about what I saw as the downfall of DJT. But I am not a POC. So perhaps I have been blind and insensitive.

I'm just stunned. I cannot believe that anyone in this country could seriously think that the 13th amendment would be repealed and somehow Black people will once again become slaves. Or even second class citizens. Yes I know about the work the GOP is doing to try and infringe on their right to vote, and I know that POC as a group have a far more difficult time in all aspects of daily life but their rights as people are legally enshrined. We can do more, we can do better, but as MetaFilter is my witness I will do everything in my power to make sure that the USA does NOT return to the pre-Civil Rights Era even if it means taking to the streets with guns.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]


Gravy, FWIW there is no chance that the 13th will be repealed. That would require another Constitutional amendment, with all the difficulty that implies. And I don't see even these assholes openly petitioning for actual slavery to be reinstituted. We have much nicer euphemisms for it now, that don't imply an obligation on the part of the owner to care for his property even to the extent the slavery laws did.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Why reinstate slavery when you can just increase prison sentences for minor drug offenses and then lease out prisoners to do labor for private companies?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:06 PM on August 18, 2017 [176 favorites]


There already is legalized slavery- its called the prison industrial complex. Slavery never ended.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 6:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [82 favorites]


My kid's bestie lives across the street from Mercer's Wellington horse farm. Every single time I drive by I have.....urges. Then I remind myself that I have kids in the car and it's not great to get arrested in front of your kids.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 6:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yes, that is much more likely I think.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 PM on August 18, 2017


How Bannon Mattered
As Chait says, his crucial role was helping to create a media environment in which Hillary Clinton was portrayed as the corrupt and dishonest candidate in a race in which her opponent shattered any previous standard of corruption and dishonesty.
...
The unconscionable decision of the New York Times to partner with Breitbart to publish anti-Clinton propaganda was the beginning of the endless pursuit of inane snipe hunts that would ultimately put Trump into the White House. And the alt-right faction of the FBI was apparently a big fan of Clinton Cash, too. Bannon’s legacy will not be changing the direction of the Republican Party. Rather, his legacy will be playing a major role in electing Trump, which allowed for the advancement of orthodox Republican priorities

posted by T.D. Strange at 6:14 PM on August 18, 2017 [65 favorites]


New York Times can suck their own cock right off the nearest available cliff.
posted by yesster at 6:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


Any journalistic standards that refer to the NYT as an exemplar need to be revised.
posted by yesster at 6:19 PM on August 18, 2017 [15 favorites]


New York Times can suck their own cock right off the nearest available cliff.

I see this being illustrated on oglaf.com by next week.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]


I hate agreeing with Chait or crediting him with some insight.
posted by notyou at 6:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Washington Post is also implicated, not just NYT. unless I'm misreading it?
posted by Yowser at 6:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous. I mean, this is a picture they looked at and said "yes, I am pleased with this and think we should show it to the world?" It's like they're all making Pence's "outlaw the X-Men" face.
posted by zachlipton at 6:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [59 favorites]


Oh, so this week we hate the NYT & WaPo. Got it. Does anyone have an advance schedule so I can plan ahead?
posted by jferg at 6:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous.

They have vry srs faces because they are vry srs people.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous.

They all look like they realize this is the pic that will run in history books showing the collaborators.
posted by chris24 at 6:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [84 favorites]


These do not look like people who have my best interests in mind.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [47 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

Wow what a diverse bunch.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2017 [42 favorites]


Indeed. Di-longer they're there, di-verse it gets.
posted by mrgoat at 6:49 PM on August 18, 2017 [112 favorites]


*tosses nearly empty glass carboy of ether over his shoulder with a resounding shatter, finds a tube of Nazi era methamphetamine pills on the ground, peering at it with mild shock and alarm*
posted by loquacious at 6:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


Does anyone have an advance schedule so I can plan ahead?

They shit their own beds at their own pace, not mine.
posted by yesster at 6:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


I finally just said 'look long story short an argument can be made that one of the main reasons we have Trump because a bunch of mostly white guys got pissed that they can't get women to do what they want when they want and ended up as white supremists. Drilled down, they can't get laid like they think they should and boom we got Trump.

Yes and it is part of the longer historical colonial narrative developed by colonizers. White male heterosexual able bodied Christians used rape as a tool of war against indigenous women. Created a first in time legal system to justify theft and colonization. And then expanded that legal system that benefited them and which was based on the control and regulation of bodies - "female" and "non-white." Everyone was legally regarded and viewed as an object that could be owned traded bartered or discarded by those same white men. Women were chattel. People of color were not human. And sexual violence was only a violation when it harmed a white man's property (which is why there was no such thing as marital rape or domestic violence.) People of color were unrapeable. Sex workers had no "chastity or virtue" to protect. White priviledge is no accident. It was an intentional goal. And rape culture and domestic violence were also part and parcel of the objectification of women. (Rape of men was a whole other can of horrible legal worms). The objectification of partners, the use of violence, patriarchy, homo and transphobia, ableism, all serve to protect white (and often male) power. And in many ways the criminal justice legal system was also developed and used for the same purpose. When people lose some of their unearned white privileged or right to control the bodies of partners under the law, they lash out using the power that remains and violence. Domestic violence is about seeking power and control and the objectification and dehumanizations of "victims." White power is unbelievably parallel. And their relationship is a long and intentional one.
posted by anya32 at 6:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]




>Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous

It looks like a 'sunglasses off' shot from They Live.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:00 PM on August 18, 2017 [42 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous

This looks like a picture taken from the time where you had to sit stock still for 40 minutes so the emulsion could set.
posted by codacorolla at 7:03 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]


More updates from Palm Beach Daily News on organizations moving their galas -- currently, only five planned galas will remain at Mar-a-Largo, with sixteen moving to other locations, and three not responding in time for the article.

I'm not surprised the Palm Beach Police Foundation has not moved their event. I am a little disappointed that the Kravis Center isn't moving considering it happens to be a pretty nice venue itself.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous

Jesus Christ, it looks like they're all trying desperately to hold onto their human form until the photographer's done.
posted by duffell at 7:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [61 favorites]


darth's version of the photo is pretty great, with bonus points for keeping Mnuchin's glasses and for the hands.
posted by zachlipton at 7:08 PM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

So if we take this picture, you'll release the hostages?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:13 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump looks like he's doing a parody of himself in that photo.
posted by double bubble at 7:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]


Interesting thing about Bannon is so far he has been untouched by the Russia investigation. Never a whisper about him.

To the contrary...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:16 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

i'm president, damnit
posted by pyramid termite at 7:20 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dude between Military Guy and The Lady has his Innsmouth Look starting to show.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Is that his resignation letter he's signing?
posted by zakur at 7:22 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]




Trump looks like he's doing a parody of himself in that photo.

You should see his DoD photo.
posted by corb at 7:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


I feel bad for the sleeping giants people, who don't seem to realize they the real source of funding for Breitbart and Rebel media isn't advertising, but wingnut welfare (and, for Rebel, donations)

Losing advertisers helps deligitimize them. It also means they have no method of self-sustainment should the Mercer family get tired of their plaything.
posted by cj_ at 7:27 PM on August 18, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump looks like he's doing a parody of himself in that photo.

he looks like he's doing a number two
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Also, pressuring these advertisers to drop establishd far-right propaganda websites like Breitbart has the addon effect of making them think twice about doing business with future upshot ones.
posted by cj_ at 7:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

Isn't it odd that they are all available for a photo shoot? Anywhere I've worked that has wanted to get a staff photo hasn't been able to do it because people are just too busy. These people pop up all the time.

Whenever Trump makes some cockamamie announcement he lines up his cabinet, too. Don't these people have something to do? Tillerson should be busy, right? Hillary wasn't hanging around the White House, neither was Kerry. It's just another WTF in a long series of WTFs.
posted by readery at 7:31 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


he looks like he's doing a number two

Are we shaming people for RBF now?
resting bathroom face
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:38 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

Is it supposed to be a power move that Trump gets to sit and the rest of them have to stand behind him and do their best serious glaring at the camera? Cuz it doesn't read like that to me at all. 45 is below all of them and his posture is shitty with his slouched shoulders and forward head jut. It looks ridiculous to my eyes.
posted by danielleh at 7:39 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo

Ben Stiller as Zoolander as President, in my view.
posted by tavegyl at 7:43 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


He treats everything like a TV Guide photoshoot.
posted by rhizome at 7:46 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]




proud to be Nazi / ashamed of jowls
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


Ben Sasse can eat a bowl of dicks.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


From Senator Sasse: "The Next Charlottesville"

Christ, what an asshole posing as a Serious Thinker.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:02 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


Uttering the "right" words without action should be called McCaining. Has any member of the GOP done anything more than McCaining since Charlottesville?
posted by defenestration at 8:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


Just read this thread on why Sen. Sasse is concern trolling instead. The man clearly understands why we have 20th Century Confederate monuments and that they're racist, explaining it himself, yet he immediately moves on to citing bad faith arguments (do we have to tear down a statue of Tom Osborne or the Washington Monument or abandon all states west of the Appalachian Trail?) instead of using his position to educate and answer these questions. When he says stuff like "Bizarrely, many on the center-left seem not to see that there is little that some on the President's team would love more than to transform this into a fight about historical monuments," he's trolling, not being our friend offering actual advice.
posted by zachlipton at 8:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [26 favorites]


My representative and personal hero.

U.S. Rep. Raúl Grijalva calls for Trump's removal from presidency
Speaking on the Bill Buckmaster radio show, on KVOI 1030-AM, Grijalva said he agrees with U.S. Rep. Jackie Speier, a Democrat from California, who said this week it's time for the 25th Amendment to be put to use to remove Trump.

Grijalva said the president's reaction to the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, last weekend was essentially the last straw.

"There’s an accumulation of issues that bring into question this man’s ability to lead," Grijalva said.
posted by MrVisible at 8:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [34 favorites]


"Both-sides-ism is bad and wrong," says Ben Sasse, immediately before fanning the flames of social unrest by expressing utterly unfounded fears of "violence from the left" with no evidence.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:09 PM on August 18, 2017 [19 favorites]


From the Ben Sasse FB post:
2. America is first and foremost an Idea – that all people are endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights. [...]

3. White supremacy and racism are un-American, period.
Uhhh yeah, okay. I get the sentiment. But the inability to recognize or understand that white supremacy and racism are among the most American things seems to me kinda why things are the way they are right now. Yes, Sasse mentions the irony of a slave-owner writing out "All men are created equal" further down but somehow it feels pretty hollow considering the rest of his post.
posted by mhum at 8:11 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the bright side. Won't it be fun in 2 weeks posting copies of this photo with little X's over various people's heads?
posted by mmoncur at 8:15 PM on August 18, 2017 [51 favorites]


Ben Sasse waited almost a full week to say a word about Charlottesville, and then dressed up Trump's both sides statement, now he's the toast of journalism twitter. All hail our new McCain.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [20 favorites]


The path to "the next Charlottesville" will be paved by equivocating monsters like Ben Sasse. I guess #NeverTrump means #ForeverTrump now.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [6 favorites]


‘Known racist and a nazi sympathizer’: Activist projects message onto Trump’s D.C. hotel
D.C.’s resident projection protest artist did not mince words Thursday night in his latest rebuke to President Trump.

Robin Bell drove his van to Trump International Hotel and projected several slides on the facade of the president’s eponymous hotel that said in all capital letters, “The president of the United States is a known racist and a nazi sympathizer.”

“This is not a drill,” the message continued. “We are all responsible to stand up and end white supremacy. #Resist.”
posted by peeedro at 8:33 PM on August 18, 2017 [70 favorites]


In this thread I'm starting a project I've been contemplating for a bit: in each new presidential politics thread I'll pick a They Might Be Giants theme song. FelliniBlank jumpstarted this in the last thread with Your Racist Friend.

This thread, in honor of Bannon the Barbarian, I bring you Bastard Wants to Hit Me.
posted by medusa at 8:51 PM on August 18, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump's approval ratings are up since Tuesday's meltdown (FiveThirtyEight, Real Clear Politics). Granted, that's from record lows, but it's pretty clear that overt white supremacism is not going to hurt him. This is why they voted for him.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:53 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


In this thread I'm starting a project I've been contemplating for a bit: in each new presidential politics thread I'll pick a They Might Be Giants theme song.

*eagerly awaits a James K. Polk-related scandal*

Surely "You're on Fire" is the most fitting though.
posted by zachlipton at 8:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Holy shit. Arnold with the three pointer:

I have a message to the Neo-Nazis, the white nationalists, and the Neo-Confederates. Let me be as blunt as possible: Your heroes are losers. You are supporting a lost cause. Believe me, I knew the original Nazis. I was born in Austria in 1947, shortly after the second world war. Growing up, I was surrounded by broken men, men who came home from a war filled with shrapnel and guilt, men who were misled into a losing ideology."

"And I can tell you: these ghosts you idolize spent the rest of their lives living in shame and right now, they're resting in hell."

posted by leotrotsky at 8:57 PM on August 18, 2017 [230 favorites]


Trump's approval ratings are up since Tuesday's meltdown

Yep, the 35% left supporting Trump are okay with white supremacy and neoNazis. That includes our nice but kinda racist grandmas and our gamergater sons and everyone in between. It's time to come to grips with that.
posted by Justinian at 9:04 PM on August 18, 2017 [75 favorites]


It showed me that in the last day, approval rose by .5% and DISapproval rose by .5%. The previously undecided are picking sides...
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:07 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


I would honestly be surprised if Bannon knew nothing about the collusion. Dude seems to like to have his fingers in every damn thing, if for no other reason than to be in the loop with the cool kids.

These people are stupid and indiscreet. Bannon probably knows everything.

In that backstabby of an environment you DO NOT allow meetings to happen without you without some kind of intel on what is happening.
posted by ctmf at 9:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


Superb New York Times op-ed by Frank Bruni: The Week When President Trump Resigned
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:10 PM on August 18, 2017 [29 favorites]


It showed me that in the last day, approval rose by .5% and DISapproval rose by .5%. The previously undecided are picking sides...

These are polls, 0.5% diffs don't mean much, let's wait a bit.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 9:17 PM on August 18, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Both-sides-ism is bad and wrong," says Ben Sasse, immediately before fanning the flames of social unrest by expressing utterly unfounded fears of "violence from the left" with no evidence.

I think right now there's this thing that's really hard to draw a line between - where it's okay to say "One side is right, one side is wrong" but also acknowledge that some things do exist on both sides even if they're not equally justified. Like, yes, both sides may engage in "violence", but one side is engaging in pre-emptive strikes to stop the rise of Nazism, and the other side is engaging in joyful violence because they get off on beating people down and running riot.

So the idea that there's no evidence that 'violence from the left' exists is just weird to me. Especially as someone who's been at least a spectator in anarchist circles for the last ten years thanks to my partner, the idea that antifa would not be willing to engage in violence against fascists goes counter to the whole point of antifa. That's what is so great about them! They put their bodies on the front lines to confront fascists whenever they rear their ugly head. So yes, they brought bear mace, and clubs, and various other implements to fight the Nazis. We don't lose the moral high ground against Nazis by admitting that, because they're fucking Nazis.

And at the same time, it's completely normal and historically within parameters that people who are neither antifa nor Nazis - especailly in fucking Nebraska - would see the violence and be afraid. Because they are in no way likely to be in danger from the Nazis, but it is possible that they will be on the receiving end of antifa. Not likely, but possible. There's no Central Anarchist Authority that declares targets. Some antifa have been fighting local county Republicans, or Trump supporters, even if they're not proudly holding up a fasces. Everyone has a different standard for where the line you have to fight is.

We should be able to talk about that - about that as a problem, about that as a concern if they vote for "law and order policies" that will stop the "rioting". But the one thing we don't have to do in order to talk about that is insist that the entirety of the anti-fascist movement would never ever engage in violence, boy howdy. Both because it's not true, and because it's not necessary, because violence itself does not make someone wrong. The ugly hatred and monstrosity of Nazis makes someone wrong.
posted by corb at 9:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [61 favorites]


How's this for a consistent position: I am ok with advocating the punching of anyone advocating shooting or ramming a car into American citizens?
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:50 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


Infrastructure Week was a complete success!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:54 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


With the path of Monday's total eclipse passing directly over the continental United States from Salem to Charleston, I figure next weeks' theme is Apocalypse Week! Stock up on ammo and canned goods. Now, it may seem like every week in Trump's America is Apocalypse Week, but this one is special.
posted by Justinian at 9:59 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


Pray for Boston, y'all.
posted by msalt at 10:03 PM on August 18, 2017 [7 favorites]


We used to be able to say violence is bad as such. Full stop.

Not anymore.

Thanks Republicans!
posted by notyou at 10:12 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


I hope that everyone in the media is real clear that the Democratic-Globalist White House comments are aimed squarely at 45's Jewish daughter and son-in-law. Polo shirts and tiki torches were too much and the backlash was larger than expected, so we are back to anti-Semitic dog whistles.
posted by xyzzy at 10:28 PM on August 18, 2017 [22 favorites]


tivalasvegas: "No, the government would have lost the confidence of the House with the fail of the repeal and replace bill, Democrats would have come in with a solid majority and Prime Minister Hillary Clinton would have already gotten Medicare-For-All through Parliament by now."

That wouldn't have been a confidence vote in most parliamentary systems and it's unlikely a non-minority government in a parliamentary system would have lost that vote anyways.
posted by Mitheral at 10:42 PM on August 18, 2017


And at the same time, it's completely normal and historically within parameters that people who are neither antifa nor Nazis - especailly in fucking Nebraska - would see the violence and be afraid. Because they are in no way likely to be in danger from the Nazis, but it is possible that they will be on the receiving end of antifa.

That fear of violent leftist unrest is really eerie to hear about, though, because there's not really an equivalence between the danger of maybe ending up in proximity to violence and the danger of being targeted for hate crimes personally (and hate crimes committed by a mass movement and with the govt's tacit approval, at that). I don't disagree that these people in Nebraska (and elsewhere in the US, too) are scared and just directing that fear at whatever target looks "stranger" or "softer" to them (meaning toward the left). But it is deeply terrifying to hear people say that they're scared and they think it'll be the VICTIMS of these Nazis and white supremacists who are likely to make things worse -- because that is exactly how scapegoating happens.

I'm also nervous hearing that Sasse's constituents in Nebraska are apparently assuming that more and more political violence is a done deal, that it's going to happen. If they think that the violence is going to just keep escalating, then I believe them. If for no other reason than that sounds like a possible self-fulfilling prophecy. But that assumption of continually escalating political violence (escalating from murder, apparently?!) is pretty shocking in and of itself, I think.

The possibly alarmist fear that that idea raises in me is of a Gulf of Tonkin kind of incident here on US soil. Fear-mongering, especially against a scapegoat, is such a tried-and-true way of seizing more executive power.

This is a frightening moment. I don't know how to read Bannon's exit, to be honest. But I guess we'll find out pretty soon what Bannon's angle is. And I do think he has an angle, I don't think this is the organic result of some squabbling at the White House. A true rift is not the feeling I get, because of how both Trump and Bannon have reacted. For what that's worth.
posted by rue72 at 10:44 PM on August 18, 2017 [24 favorites]


So the idea that there's no evidence that 'violence from the left' exists is just weird to me.

Sorry for being unclear, but the "violence from the left" Sasse was alluding to is organized violent attacks, like the Charlottesville Nazi shitshow was a planned, announced, premeditated violent attack/onslaught from the right. I would like you to point out instances of antifa or any other leftist organization in the current/recent US saying, "Hey, let's set up and advertise an event in some place for no real reason with the express purpose of inciting violence against the locals or whoever else shows up" or "I'm bored; I think I'll go mow down a bunch of people I hate in a church" and then acting on that. Leftists don't have 9 or 10 or 20 armed divisive violence-inciting rallies planned for the next few weeks. Leftists aren't in the habit of going from one college campus to another demanding platforms for incendiary "free speech" gatherings that, if allowed, would bankrupt universities' and municipal budgets financing the insane amount of law enforcement presence needed to ensure a reasonable level of public safety.

Nobody is claiming that all people who are socialists or anarchists or what have you are non-violent in all situations. But sure, go ahead anyway and pretend that is the claim so you-all can do the same old tired fucking intellectually dishonest hand-wringing "both sides, both sides" concern troll bullshit your entire party seems completely in love with. Sasse does his nutball constituents no favors by legitimizing and dignifying their lurid fantasies; it would be nice if at least some Republican somewhere would actually try to defuse them.

People in Nebraska or wherever have no reasonable basis whatsoever except for uninformed bias and paranoia stoked by the likes of Sasse to think armed antifa are going to march into Omaha willy-nilly and harm them the way Nazis descended on the people of Charlottesville and made their city into a damn war zone. And fears of BLM are just flat-out gross white supremacist bigotry, period. The only people who need to fear "violence from the left" are fucking Nazi white supremacists who stir shit and stage events to provoke and incite violent resistance, as well as other protesters and bystanders at those events, law enforcement, etc.

There is a significant difference between violence as a tactic -- and there is plenty of room for debate about when, if ever, and in what contexts it is or isn't an appropriate or useful tactic -- and violence as an inherent part of the philosophy, program, aims, and belief system of a person or group. The whole purpose and raison d'etre of white supremacist organizations is to do violence, to wield power and force to (at minimum) oppress and dispossess and disempower the people they want to dominate and exclude. And generally much worse than that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:55 PM on August 18, 2017 [92 favorites]


zachlipton: This can be a very complex area (trust me). Bannon was fired this afternoon, in ed meeting this evening. Not much time to implement a plan.

Hahahahahahahahaha! ... Oh, you're serious? You think they have a plan in which to implement? Trump is so impatient that he tweeted the military trans ban because he was tired of people telling him they needed more time to plan. This administration is based on knee-jerk reactions and overturning everything that Obama did.


chris24: They all look like they realize this is the pic that will run in history books showing the collaborators.

Remember, this is the official President Trump portrait, so scowling is totally a presidential pose.

And TIL the photo still hasn't been given to the U.S. Government Publishing Office (at least, as of July 25, 2017).
Six months into President Donald Trump's tenure, pictures of him and his vice president are absent from the walls of federal courthouses.

In fact, the official portraits are not hanging in any federal buildings, according to Patrick Sclafani, regional spokesman for the U.S. General Services Administration. The agency manages about 1,600 federal buildings.
Good news: if he leaves office sooner rather than later, GPO can be saved the trouble of printing and distributing those official portraits and just print ones of the next president.

And maybe that's why the official scowling photo isn't featured on Trump's Wikipedia page and other locations, and instead this smizing (or farting?) portrait is used instead.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:56 PM on August 18, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm nervous about this, had no idea it was out there until today.

"When Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey goes on trial on federal corruption charges in less than three weeks, far more than his own fate hinges on the outcome.

If Mr. Menendez, a Democrat, is convicted and then expelled from the United States Senate by early January, his replacement would be picked by Gov. Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey and an ally of President Trump.

That scenario — where Mr. Menendez’s interim replacement would more than likely be a Republican — would have immediate and far-reaching implications: The Republicans would be gifted a crucial extra vote just as the party remains a single vote shy in the Senate of advancing its bill to dismantle President Obama’s signature health care law. Those potential consequences only heighten the drama around the first federal bribery charges leveled against a sitting senator in a generation."
posted by kemrocken at 11:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [38 favorites]


In fact, the official portraits are not hanging in any federal buildings, according to Patrick Sclafani, regional spokesman for the U.S. General Services Administration. The agency manages about 1,600 federal buildings.

This is absolutely not true. There is a copy of the official portrait (ptuie) hanging in my office (which is in a federal building), next to the front door. It's an absolutely terrible portrait: looks like the man intends to fire everyone he sees, unlike Obama and Bush's portraits, which were anodyne images of a reasonably friendly bureaucrat. 45's portrait is a fucking nightmare.

But my point is: we have a portrait. However, there is no portrait in the lobby of the building. So it's possible that what we have is somewhat unofficial.
posted by suelac at 11:05 PM on August 18, 2017 [3 favorites]


If Mr. Menendez, a Democrat, is convicted and then expelled from the United States Senate by early January, his replacement would be picked by Gov. Chris Christie, the Republican governor of New Jersey and an ally of President Trump.

Bad, but not disastrous. My first thought was, "this is a proxy vote for ACA repeal, but with enough indirection that more senators might play stupid 'I believe in the forms and processes of blah blah blah' games".

But. From the same article: "Even a bribery conviction would not automatically force Mr. Menendez from office, under the Senate rules. He would either have to voluntarily resign his seat, or two-thirds of his Senate colleagues — including at least 15 Democrats — would have to vote to expel him."
posted by spaceman_spiff at 11:18 PM on August 18, 2017 [23 favorites]


The last time Christie had to fill a Senate seat he called a special election that cost millions and had record low turnout. So, yay for Sen. Booker, I guess, but the Democrats were still furious with Christie's decision because he did it to avoid sharing a ballot with odds on favorite Cory Booker. Who know what would happen now.
posted by xyzzy at 11:21 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump just tweeted thoughts and prayers to the Kissimmee Police Department after a recent series of shootings there and two other Florida and Pennsylvania cities.

@realDonaldTrump: My thoughts and prayers are with the @KissimmeePolice and their loved ones. We are with you!
posted by christopherious at 11:24 PM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm nervous about this, had no idea it was out there until today.

I'm nervous about it too, but it's not an inevitable thing. First, we don't know if Menendez will be found guilty. The standard for what constitutes bribery of an elected official has actually tightened quite a bit recently. That's not necessarily a good thing obviously but it does mean it's harder to convict Menendez. (If Menendez is corrupt he of course deserves to be convicted. I'm talking practicalities not morals.)

But that's not the end of the story. He does not lose his Senate seat if convicted. The Senate has to expel him, and that takes a 2/3 majority. So the Democrats can keep his seat even if he's convicted if they are willing to take the political hit until after Christie is replaced. My assumption is that they will do everything possible to delay until past Christie's use by date. If it comes to it I assume they will refuse to expel him until after a new governor of New Jersey is chosen. That will be politically damaging but may be necessary.
posted by Justinian at 11:25 PM on August 18, 2017 [8 favorites]


There is a significant difference between violence as a tactic -- and there is plenty of room for debate about when, if ever, and in what contexts it is or isn't an appropriate or useful tactic -- and violence as an inherent part of the philosophy, program, aims, and belief system of a person or group.

And let me just clarify that if I had my druthers, these Nazi rallies would turn out to be 200 or however many dopey Nazis met with 10,000 totally non-violent members of the resistance laughing, picnicking, and generally enjoying themselves.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:26 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


I see spiff said roughly the same thing. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it's not disastrous. The political hit from Democrats refusing to expel someone convicted of felony corruption would be significant. And that's how it should be! Not ejecting someone fairly convicted of political corruption is morally repugnant. But the alternative is letting Republicans strip health care, and thus kill, tens or hundreds of thousands. So they should probably take the hit even if it's sorta the wrong thing to do.

This is like exhibit A for why sometimes the lesser of two evils is necessary.
posted by Justinian at 11:30 PM on August 18, 2017 [11 favorites]


Polo shirts and tiki torches were too much and the backlash was larger than expected, so we are back to anti-Semitic dog whistles.

I don't think the backlash was larger than expected. I think it was actually smaller than expected, and they were pretty ecstatic over the lack of approbation -- especially from the White House.

The dog whistles are definitely there, but I think it's with a wink wink nudge nudge that's like a secret handshake between the Nazis in the White House and the Nazis in the street, meant to give Trump a little cover while still showing EVERYONE (including the left, and hell, probably including Javanka) what side he and his cronies are "really" on. If anything, I think throwing out these dog whistles are meant to keep stirring up trouble, keep working these [redacted] up slowly but surely into a lather.
posted by rue72 at 11:42 PM on August 18, 2017 [2 favorites]


a crucial extra vote just as the party remains a single vote shy in the Senate of advancing its bill to dismantle President Obama’s signature health care law

It did seem that at least a few more Republicans were only voting for the repeal bill because they knew it wouldn't pass, though. They got to look tough without having to account to their constituents for actually harming them.
posted by Coventry at 11:47 PM on August 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


this paragraph from the New Yorker article on Carl Icahn (linked above) really struck a nerve for me:
One recurring feature of the Trump Presidency has been an acute collective sensation, shared by a substantial portion of the electorate, of helpless witness. Dismayed Americans wait, like spectators at a game that has turned suddenly dangerous, for a referee to step in and cry foul. But one reason that Trumpism is so transfixing to watch is that it is about the upending of norms, the defiance of taboos, the destabilization of institutions. School’s out forever. What this means in practice is a serious deficit of accountability. Whom can you call when the authorities are the ones breaking the rules?
(emphasis mine)

"helpless witness" is as good a summation of the zeitgeist as i've heard
posted by murphy slaw at 11:48 PM on August 18, 2017 [112 favorites]


North of the Border in Vancouver, idiots are flying the Confederate flag and claiming various reasons ('It's for a dying African American friend who overcame a lot of obstacles' being the most mind-boggling). In response, one local newscast has started referring to the flag as 'the flag of slave-owners' and 'the symbol of slavery', as well as Charlottesville as a 'white supremacist uprising'. Somehow the claim that this is about driving 4x4s sounds like even more of a lie when the headline is 'symbol of slavery flies'.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:00 AM on August 19, 2017 [29 favorites]


rue72, I meant that Bannon and buddies were a bit taken aback by the strength of the media censure and the counter protest response, so they're sliding the hoods back on while bat signaling the base.
posted by xyzzy at 12:04 AM on August 19, 2017


Could Christie just appoint a Democrat as a reverse-meatloaf move against Trump? I know that's almost certainly political daydreaming on my part, but on the other hand, Christie's political future is pretty much non-existent, so why not go out with a YOLO while flipping the double bird?
posted by dhens at 12:32 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


White supremacists who celebrated the death of Heather Heyer are holding a rally in Vancouver, BC tomorrow. Wish us luck with the counterprotest.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:39 AM on August 19, 2017 [50 favorites]


I blinked a little bit when the VICE news CVille report highlighted some Canadian alt-reichs. Time to read up on race relations in Canada, it seems. Good luck with your counter-protest and stay safe out there.
posted by xyzzy at 12:45 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Was editing some fiction I wrote a couple of years ago and came across some dialogue where a character says, "believe me," at the end of the sentence, and you know when you're writing and you hear dialogue in your head? I was like this character, that character speaks, and suddenly it's Tim Kane mocking DJT at the gorgeously orchestrated DNC last year, and I am off on another weird tangent of grief that we are actually here at this moment.
posted by angrycat at 2:09 AM on August 19, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Explorer X didn't treat native Americans the way he should have; do we abandon states west of the Appalachian Trail?"

Yes, please.
Signed, States West of the Appalachian Trail
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:26 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


i'm very confused about something

i though christians weren't supposed to worship graven images
posted by pyramid termite at 2:32 AM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yes, but craven images are apparently okay.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:40 AM on August 19, 2017 [24 favorites]


Here's what Trump is defending and Sasse is bothsidesing. From Jason Kessler, organizer of the Charlottesville March late last night:

@TheMadDimension:
Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist. Communists have killed 94 million. Looks like it was payback time.
https://dailystormer.lol/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/

---

Reminder that Kessler was also a regular contributor to thr Daily Caller and in fact covered the last Spencer march for them.
posted by chris24 at 2:49 AM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


When Nazis like Kessler use inflated figures for the number of people "Communists" have killed, I always sense some jealousy...
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:05 AM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


Wow, I knew bad people fat shamed, but I didn't know childlessness was something to be pitied.
I mean, motherfuckers, I smoke weed and curse daily. Being childless is great. You just get cats and don't give a fuck.
posted by angrycat at 3:16 AM on August 19, 2017 [81 favorites]


Looks like TDS switched to a .lol domain. Heh.
posted by xyzzy at 3:22 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


I found this Medium post by Danica Bornstein, a clinical social worker from Seattle, extremely moving and effective at articulating complicated nuance :
This intersection of privilege and terror that is being a white-skinned Jew is very complicated. I am struggling with it from the inside. I want people who care for me and for other Jews to struggle with it from the outside. I want you to try to understand us. I want you to know that we’re not just like regular white people, only louder and with more movement of hands. We’re a complicated and layered thing. To understand us you have to go both backward and forward in time. You have to understand that Jewish time is like geologic time, that 150 or 500 years between expulsions is not that long; it’s not long enough to forget, or to rest. Please fight to understand us, in all of our complexity.
posted by bardophile at 3:38 AM on August 19, 2017 [30 favorites]


This is not really a win, just extremist loonies shedding responsibility, rats leaving a sinking ship. They don't want to be tarnished by the imploding Trump, they want to come out clean and say, "we told you so, they're all corrupt, etc etc.".

Meanwhile, Trump will win big no matter what - whether he's impeached, steps down, government collapses, the markets take a dive, he buys, whoever gets in command, markets rebound.
posted by Laotic at 4:25 AM on August 19, 2017


Christie's term is up in January. If Menendez is convicted, Democrats must hold the line until then. Menendez can say he will resign, but the people of New Jersey deserve a say, so the new governor should choose.

Democrats have to start playing the same game as Republicans have been for 40 years. No one cares about process. Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat and were rewarded for it. If Menendez holds his seat as a convicted felon for two months, no one will remember by 2018.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:37 AM on August 19, 2017 [77 favorites]


35% Approval, huh? I guess we are at the point that the US is like a freshman going to their first college class in a dumb movie. Except this time the professor rightly says, "Look to your left, now look to your right. One of you is a Nazi."
posted by goHermGO at 4:49 AM on August 19, 2017 [23 favorites]


Good morning! Rise and shine, we got a scoop of news to go with y'all's breakfast this morning -

The Trumps have just announced they will withdraw from attending any of the Kennedy Center Honors celebrations this year, to "allow the honorees to celebrate without any political distraction."

This move, mind you, is coming in the wake of the honorees themselves declaring that they would be boycotting part of the festivities; everyone was going to be at the event itself, but honoree Norman Lear announced a couple weeks ago that he would not be attending the traditional reception at the White House to which honorees are also invited. Dancer Carmen de Lavallade, another honoree, withdrew from the White House reception earlier this week, and Lionel Richie was said to be on the fence; Gloria Estefan said she would only go long enough to persuade him to change his mind on immigrantion policy. L.L. Cool J. was the only confirmed attendee of the White House Reception.

It is not known whehter there will still be a reception at the White House without the Trumps.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:01 AM on August 19, 2017 [35 favorites]


Gloria Estefan said she would only go long enough to persuade him to change his mind on immigrantion policy.

She gonna be there a long-ass time then.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:03 AM on August 19, 2017 [26 favorites]


L.L. Cool J. was the only confirmed attendee of the White House Reception.

It is not known whether there will still be a reception at the White House without the Trumps.

Lonely, Lonely Cool J.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:04 AM on August 19, 2017 [30 favorites]


Kessler deleted his tweet, claims he was hacked.
*snerk*
posted by farlukar at 5:09 AM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


I keep toying with doing an FPP about the Kennedy Center Honors; there've been some great moments from the CBS broadcast of the gala's highlights over the years. But some of my recent favorite moments have been clips of Michelle Obama rocking out (watch for her reacting to Snoop Dogg's performance at the tribute to Herbie Hancock, or to Bruno Mars's salute to Sting). I just plain can not picture Trump getting down like that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:11 AM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


I haven't paid much attention to L. L. Cool J since Mama Said Knock You Out. Has he gone off the rails in any notable way over the past few decades?
posted by acb at 5:14 AM on August 19, 2017


Kessler deleted his tweet, claims he was hacked.

Well, he retweeted this right before the "hacked" one and it's still proudly up there.

@PeterBeinart
Yesterday my 9 year old saw some footage from Charlottesville. Then she asked me if there would be a second Holocaust.


Jason Kessler retweeted
@ramzpaul replied to Peter Beinart
Yesterday my 9 year old saw some footage of the Jewish reaction. Then she asked me if there would be another Red terror.
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


I read the original Daily Stormer article on Heather Heyer and it was a weird combination of grossly offensive and oddly illogical. Like she was supposedly a drain on society because she was childless so obviously she must have had several abortions. The values of Nazis are really strange.

Still no word on whether DJT is going to Phoenix on Tuesday now that the Mayor has asked him not to. It's amazing that POTUS can come back after 17 days of vacation, spend one day in DC, then fly off to Arizona for a campaign rally. He really has nothing to do. In fact the tax payers are probably paying 10 or 20 people to babysit him and keep him happy. What a waste in every way. The only thing that keeps me happy is knowing he must dread coming back to DC and he'll have to wait at least 6 months before taking another vacation. Although now that I write that I realize there's nothing stopping him from talking another vacation in 2 months.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:16 AM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


Like she was supposedly a drain on society because she was childless so obviously she must have had several abortions. The values of Nazis are really strange.

Remember that many of these Nazis got their start as Men's Rights Activists.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:19 AM on August 19, 2017 [72 favorites]


I haven't paid much attention to L. L. Cool J since Mama Said Knock You Out. Has he gone off the rails in any notable way over the past few decades?

He did kind of the same thing as Ice-T and transitioned into being an actor in TVs other crime-drama franchise.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:20 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is a pretty great political cartoon.
posted by chris24 at 5:21 AM on August 19, 2017 [33 favorites]


The small hands and long tie. *kisses fingers*
posted by like_neon at 5:27 AM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


RE: Trump's Zoolander:
NYT 3/21/17: Toughness, more than any other attribute, is what Mr. Trump has sought to project during his short and successful political career — and he believes his behavior makes him look tougher, no matter what the press thinks.

As a presidential candidate, he wanted to look dour, and vetoed any campaign imagery that so much as hinted at weakness, aides said. Which is why every self-selected snapshot — down to the squinty-eyed scowl attached to his Twitter account — features a tough-guy sourpuss. “Like Churchill,” is what Mr. Trump would tell staffers when asked what look he was going for.
By "like Churchill" he means the famous Yousef Karsh portrait where Karsh plucked the cigar from Churchill's mouth to get the look he wanted.

Of course Trump doesn't look Churchillian. He looks bowel movementian.
posted by chris24 at 5:31 AM on August 19, 2017 [50 favorites]


Gloria Estefan, Lionel Richie, and L.L. Cool J?

That's going in the remake of We Didn't Start the Fire, right?

"Holy Crap This Shit's on Fire"
MeFi Allstars
Casablanca Records

posted by petebest at 5:36 AM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


RE: Trump's Zoolander

Blew steal?
posted by flabdablet at 5:50 AM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


Steve Kornacki dug out some footage of Trump accusing Pat Buchanan of being a neo-Nazi racist back when they were both running for the Reform Party nom. He stated that Buchanan had divisive views on "Jews, blacks, gays, and Mexicans" that would tear the country apart. It was so bizarre, like through the looking glass level of dysphoria. I expected Trinity to burst through the sliding glass door and hand me a copy of the "Berenstein Bears."
posted by xyzzy at 5:53 AM on August 19, 2017 [68 favorites]


45 absolutely can't see anyone else except as a version of himself, hence all the zero-sum thinking and the mirroring, and why his aims and motivation are so simple. Those who are so different from him that this doesn't work are othered in a flash.

He is living in a world of clones and zombies. All that matters is to be king of the clones and defeater of the zombies. No wonder he's so miserable.
posted by Devonian at 6:00 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


So now that Bannon is out Erik Prince has lost his bid to take over the war in Afghanistan.

Politico Sources: Pence, McMaster team up to push more troops in Afghanistan
The two sources — an administration official and a senior White House aide — also confirmed that Erik Prince, founder of the former Blackwater private security firm, had been scheduled to attend the session but that he was blocked at the last minute. The administration official said McMaster was the one who blocked Prince.
So another reason that Bannon out of the WH is a good thing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on August 19, 2017 [45 favorites]


> 45's portrait is a fucking nightmare.

A few months ago, my sister's car got pulled over for a random search* when she was crossing the border at Port Huron, Michigan. She and her daughter (who is old enough to know who Donald Trump is and why she shouldn't like him, but probably not old enough to really understand politics) were in a waiting room which had a photo of Trump on the wall. My niece saw it and in that really loud little kid voice asked "WHY is there a picture of *DONALD TRUMP* on the wall?" well within earshot of all the border patrol people.

* everything was fine, they didn't get hassled beyond the search
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:11 AM on August 19, 2017 [19 favorites]


Mod note: A couple deleted. Sorry, but let's not continue on with extended debate re antifa and Nazi-punching, etc. It has been argued *a lot* already on the site, is the sort of thing that ends up eating up a ton of threadspace here (which should focus more on news and updates on 45, congress, and related), and probably works better in the Cville thread.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:12 AM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


45 absolutely can't see anyone else except as a version of himself, hence all the zero-sum thinking and the mirroring, and why his aims and motivation are so simple. Those who are so different from him that this doesn't work are othered in a flash.

He is living in a world of clones and zombies. No wonder he's so miserable.


Beneath the anger and frustration, the feeling Trump triggers in me is pity. It's just such a sad and small fucking way to live. The whole of human existence is reduced to displays of weakness and strength.

I wonder if he's ever actually been able to experience (let alone appreciate) simple human kindness. I suspect not.

I feel the same way about the Red Pill-ers. It's just fucking sad. Not just in the pathetic sense, but in the "you've taken the most profound aspects of human existence, labelled them weakness, and intentionally excised them from your life, you poor misguided bastards." Toxic masculinity is brutal.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on August 19, 2017 [61 favorites]


173 TV Station Networks Are Defending Trump’s Indefensible Statements on Race and Nazism -- Are They in Your City?
The Sinclair Broadcasting Group is pushing unabashed propaganda across its 173 stations.
posted by adamvasco at 7:08 AM on August 19, 2017 [38 favorites]


I doubt there's much recognizably human in there to be sorry for, just rage and reaction to stimuli.
posted by Artw at 7:08 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Boris Epshteyn openly defending anti-semitism.

I say this a lot, but, he does know how it ends if he's successful at his job right?
posted by Yowser at 7:12 AM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]




My job is heavy travel, and this is one of the unexpected things I don't like about it: a month or so ago I was in West Virginia a few days before 45 visited there. Now it looks like he'll be in Phoenix the day after I'm there. I'd make a "quit following me" joke, but seriously it's such a pain to get hotel rooms and cars around when his entourage is traveling, plus it brings some of the worst locals out of the woodwork.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:19 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I doubt there's much recognizably human in there to be sorry for, just rage and reaction to stimuli.

Let's not do that. Let's not deny his humanity. We're not them.

He's not just a monster wearing the face of a man. There's still a person in there, a deeply, probably irretrievably broken person. It's the same with every horror and atrocity that's been visited on this earth. There's a person behind it. One that possessed the capacity (deep within in some cases) for care, compassion, love, and kindness. Who chose this path of horrors instead. That fact doesn't excuse his behavior, I'd argue that it makes his behavior that more subject to condemnation.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:19 AM on August 19, 2017 [48 favorites]


These people are stupid and indiscreet. Bannon probably knows everything.

Did he get asked and not tell? If so, is that not obstruction and that is worth 10 years and a $250k fine?

Here's something for your fanfics - Bannon got flipped before day 1 of the Trump admistration and the suits+look he sported was to wear a wire.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:23 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Senate has to expel him, and that takes a 2/3 majority. So the Democrats can keep his seat even if he's convicted if they are willing to take the political hit until after Christie is replaced. My assumption is that they will do everything possible to delay until past Christie's use by date. If it comes to it I assume they will refuse to expel him until after a new governor of New Jersey is chosen. That will be politically damaging but may be necessary.

Politically damaging my ass. Christie's a lame duck governor. We now have precedent that lame duck executives can be flatly denied the right to make appointees. Thanks, Obama!
posted by xigxag at 7:29 AM on August 19, 2017 [22 favorites]


In sadder news Alex Jones probably wasn't scalded with hot coffee.
posted by Artw at 7:39 AM on August 19, 2017


In sadder news Alex Jones probably wasn't scalded with hot coffee.

The link on there to a little write up about the coffee thrower put me at ease because it puts the bizarre cackling in context. Keep Seattle weird and keep insulting Alex Jones
posted by dis_integration at 7:45 AM on August 19, 2017


Reading the whole A Jones link, it says a the bottom that it is satire. I was confused all the way down.
posted by puddledork at 7:45 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Fahrenthold reports on his tweeters that Mar-a-Lago holds 21-26 galas per season on average. This year? Nine after seven cancellations.
posted by xyzzy at 7:51 AM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


Well, calling the guy a crisis actor and the stunt a false flag is satire I guess? He does very much appear to be an actor.
posted by Artw at 7:51 AM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Every time I lose a bet at a bar (like, about the actor who played the goofy reporter in Tim Burton's Batman or whatever) I'm going to defend my incorrect answer by saying WELL OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS SATIRE.
posted by duffell at 7:55 AM on August 19, 2017 [24 favorites]


This should make for an excruciating round of Sunday morning punditry: ‘I hope Trump is assassinated’: A Missouri lawmaker faces mounting calls to resign after Facebook comment
posted by Caxton1476 at 8:06 AM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: Posing as a therious sinker.
posted by Oyéah at 8:09 AM on August 19, 2017


173 TV Station Networks Are Defending Trump’s Indefensible Statements on Race and Nazism -- Are They in Your City?
The Sinclair Broadcasting Group is pushing unabashed propaganda across its 173 stations.


If you want to find out if you're in one of their regions, here's the Sinclair map, which includes contact information if you want to for complaining. And here's the FCC's page for complaints about broadcast journalism—if you want to submit a complaint ticket, it would have to fall under "indecency" since defending Trump's post-Charlottesville remarks is obscene.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:12 AM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


This should make for an excruciating round of Sunday morning punditry: ‘I hope Trump is assassinated’: A Missouri lawmaker faces mounting calls to resign after Facebook comment

That was so profoundly stupid of her. A shame too. I've supported her in past elections, and she otherwise holds pretty good positions.
posted by jedicus at 8:15 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Agreed. No good has ever come to anyone who calls for the assassination of a sitting president, in a public broadcast of any kind. Social media, video, regular media--practically everyone who's done this has been excoriated and lost practically all their credibility and frequently their job. People in highly public positions should know better than to do this.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:22 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


This should make for an excruciating round of Sunday morning punditry: ‘I hope Trump is assassinated’

Ironically enough, a certain presidential candidate has lately eroded the norms that used to apply to such outbursts. I hope she refuses to resign.
posted by Western Infidels at 8:27 AM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


Anyone know if there will be any aerial photography of the Boston rallies? I would love to see proof of something like 30,000 lefties and 50 nazis (which is something I have heard but is probably just a rumor since the rallies haven't actually even started yet).

The CNN/MSNBC livestream (YouTube) has aerial coverage of the whole march route, heading for the Common.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:28 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I really don't want to accept Trump norms. I just read about Dana R's opponent in CA calling for an FBI investigation of him, this otherwise perfectly decent Democrat in MO calling for Trump's assassination, and in this very thread lists of tricks the Dems could play if a D Senator gets convicted of corruption.

Thanks, Donald! Thanks for fucking my party up (more), too.
posted by xyzzy at 8:31 AM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


CNN: "dozens and dozens of counter-protestors" as hundreds of people walk by.
posted by Yowser at 8:33 AM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Local news says the mayor estimated 15k at this point. There's a very Women's March mood so far.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:36 AM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


I really don't want to accept Trump norms.

The norms are already dead. Republicans killed them long before Trump. Either Democrats accept that that landscape has changed, and unilaterally disarming gets them nothing, or they resign themselves to being the token opposition party in a potemkin democracy. Because Republicans will continue their march to a de facto one party state, Trump or no Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 AM on August 19, 2017 [22 favorites]


CNN:" Dueling Rallies descend"

Fair and Balanced; not just for Fox.
posted by Yowser at 8:41 AM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


I can respect not wanting to violate norms out of principle, but then you must accept the consequences of taking the high road. If taking said high road will further entrench us in reactionary authoritarianism, then it's purely a symbolic gesture that makes things demonstrably worse for millions of people. If "playing tricks" prevents millions from losing health care, play the shit outta them.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:42 AM on August 19, 2017 [26 favorites]


Pastor Mark Burns on with Joy Reid just said that Trump was right in saying both sides, that he has to be the president for all people, not just one side, unless we want to change our constitution.

So there's that.

I missed the whole thing and just caught this end bit, but based on the faces of Joy and the other guest when I turned it on, his earlier comments were awful as well.
posted by chris24 at 8:45 AM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh I have no intention of complaining if our illustrious Minority Leader uses procedural voodoo to keep the Dems somewhat competitive in the Senate. But I will be annoyed as hell that such a thing is even necessary. I mean, how is it not a law in every single state that an appointed Senator must be of the same party of the departing/deceased Senator? Why does NJ have two different clauses addressing this situation that contradict each other? Why did the fucking bill that was introduced to fix this die in legislature? *primal scream*
posted by xyzzy at 8:50 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sarah Kendzior, Fast Company: Steve Bannon May Be A Bigger Asset To Trump Outside The White House Than In It
Now it appears Bannon will return to Breitbart, but don’t think for one second that this is the result of some ideological rift between him and the president. There is no evidence that Trump–who on Tuesday equated neo-Nazis and Klansmen with those who protested them in Charlottesville–was suddenly so full of moral indignation that he fired Bannon, whose racist policies were blatantly promulgated in the White House for over six months and who Trump praised this week.

Instead, the two may very well be working, as they have for a year, in tandem.

[…]

Both Trump and Bannon remain financed by the Mercer family, ultra-conservative mega-donors who funded Trump’s campaign and share their desire to bring down the political establishment. One Mercer family colleague noted how Trump’s regime meshes with their philosophy: “Bob [Mercer] thinks the less government the better. He’s happy if people don’t trust the government. And if the President’s a bozo? He’s fine with that. He wants it to all fall down.” Another colleague notes that Bob Mercer’s fetish for destruction encompasses the belief that nuclear radiation is beneficial to one’s health.
Jesus, that last sentence…
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:54 AM on August 19, 2017 [37 favorites]


I don't know how anyone can watch CNN. For so-called experts at live events, they're awful.
posted by Yowser at 9:01 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Another colleague notes that Bob Mercer’s fetish for destruction encompasses the belief that nuclear radiation is beneficial to one’s health.

What the precious bodily fluids FUCK
posted by schadenfrau at 9:02 AM on August 19, 2017 [25 favorites]


Jesus, that last sentence…
So it's a Scientology takeover then...?
posted by saulgoodman at 9:02 AM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bob Mercer’s fetish for destruction encompasses the belief that nuclear radiation is beneficial to one’s health.

A trip to the Chernobyl Medicinal Spa at once for you, Bob! You'll be in glowing health in no time...
posted by Devonian at 9:03 AM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


Charlottesville Was a Preview of the Future of the Republican Party
This is the state of the GOP leadership pipeline. In a decade, state legislatures will start filling up with Gamergaters, MRAs, /pol/ posters, Anime Nazis, and Proud Boys. These are, as of now, the only people in their age cohort becoming more active in Republican politics in the Trump era. Everyone else is fleeing. This will be the legacy of Trumpism: It won’t be long before voters who reflexively check the box labeled “Republican” because their parents did, or because they think their property taxes are too high, or because Fox made them scared of terrorism, start electing Pepe racists to Congress.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 AM on August 19, 2017 [67 favorites]


Wait until you hear about his new philanthropic programme; it'll be (literally) a blast.
posted by acb at 9:04 AM on August 19, 2017


>‘I hope Trump is assassinated’: A Missouri lawmaker faces mounting calls to resign after Facebook comment

Wow... lending credence to all the people who want to talk about 'violent leftists'. Not that anybody who wants to talk about that cares about credence, but still--thanks for scoring against your own fucking team, that's just what we need.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:06 AM on August 19, 2017 [16 favorites]


> Another colleague notes that Bob Mercer’s fetish for destruction encompasses the belief that nuclear radiation is beneficial to one’s health.
Johnny Wallflower, we seriously need a [real] or [fake] tag here.
posted by runcifex at 9:19 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Kessler deleted his tweet, claims he was hacked.

This got even weirder. Weev took credit for hacking him, but now the claim that he was hacked is gone and has been replaced with tweets saying he repudiates the "heinous tweet" after he mixed benzos and alcohol and "sometimes wake up having done strange things I don't remember."
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


TA-NEHISI COATES: It’s infuriating. I mean, it’s absolutely, absolutely infuriating. I mean, I just want to pick up where you just left off, and that is with Ferguson. And what one has to do to really understand the horror of the situation, you have to try to imagine black people in, say, Ferguson, showing up, some of them with guns, some of them dressed in militia outfits, some of them with shields, some of them with clubs. You have to try to imagine, and then having them brawl in the streets with counterprotesters. And you then have to try to imagine the police doing nothing. And I think that just fails the test. I just don’t think, you know, that there’s enough imagination to perceive that, you know, as a possibility.

I was watching those things in Charlottesville on Saturday, and I was amazed. I mean, I should not be amazed. I mean, it pretty much follows, you know, the basic theory. But it is just amazing to see, you know, the police absolutely do nothing, on the one hand, and then when you see all these other cases—you know, imagine if that was how black folks responded when Eric Garner had been choked to death. Imagine if that was how black folks responded to Tamir Rice, if we came out in guns and militia gear. I mean, does anyone think the police would just sort of stand back like that?
Ta-Nehisi Coates on Democracy Now

posted by standardasparagus at 9:23 AM on August 19, 2017 [158 favorites]


Super proud of my hometown today. #BostonStrong
posted by spitbull at 9:24 AM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


T.D. Strange: This is the state of the GOP leadership pipeline. In a decade, state legislatures will start filling up with Gamergaters, MRAs, /pol/ posters, Anime Nazis, and Proud Boys. These are, as of now, the only people in their age cohort becoming more active in Republican politics in the Trump era. Everyone else is fleeing. This will be the legacy of Trumpism: It won’t be long before voters who reflexively check the box labeled “Republican” because their parents did, or because they think their property taxes are too high, or because Fox made them scared of terrorism, start electing Pepe racists to Congress.

That's really awful. So much for the future of the Republican Party! It's now irrevocably associated with Nazi-ism, neo-Confederacy, and other white and male supremacy groups.

I've been thinking about the "demographics will save us!" idea that some Democratic pundits and leaders have been tossing around, or at least were until the election. Yes, it's true that younger - meaning "Millennials" however they are defined - generations are much less white, less heterosexual, and less conventionally religious. On the other hand, the stereotype of younger people as more woke, less prejudiced, etc., took a beating when snake people from blue states showed up, torches and all, at a Nazi rally. Our Fyoocher, indeed.

Waiting for old people to die isn't going to cut it. Yes, more older (65+) folks voted Republican, and they are the primary audience for Fox news, but 1) many older people are actual POC and LGBT and other marginalized populations, 2) many older people are Democrats, and 3) we can wait for the oldsters to croak all we want but if the neo-Nazi pipeline is filling up with Gen X and snake people, we're going to have a loooooong wait.

This puts urgency into addressing gerrymandering and getting out the vote for Dems. We need to show up at the damn polls, absolutely every election, especially the local and state not-so-sexy but vital elections.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:24 AM on August 19, 2017 [41 favorites]


A trip to the Chernobyl Medicinal Spa at once for you, Bob! You'll be in glowing health in no time...

I don't care if he does it. Consenting adult, etc. Except we all know right wingers are mentally incapable of doing or believing a thing without forcing everyone in the country to do it with them.
posted by ctmf at 9:27 AM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


All this blind spiteful undoing of Obama accomplishments - the next president is going to have to create a position just for Obama as Chief of Redoing All That. He can have Ivanka's office.
posted by ctmf at 9:33 AM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


Pete Souza can be his admin. assistant.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:44 AM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


David Graham, writer for The Atlantic, said that Charlottesville was about protesting against people who tear down statues, proving that his grasp on the way time works is tenuous.
posted by Yowser at 9:49 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm late to the party, but:

I built a fucking machine at Breitbart.

This must have been before he perfected the skill of sucking his own cock.
posted by biogeo at 9:50 AM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


Not sure what David Graham was really trying to say, but it was muddled.
posted by Yowser at 9:51 AM on August 19, 2017


Huh, Bob Mercer did work at an Air Force weapons laboratory in the late 60s or early 70s. We can assume he learned everything he knows about radiation from some archetype of J. Frank Parnell.
posted by mubba at 9:52 AM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


He can have Ivanka's office.

Actually if I was next First Lady I would turn the entire East Wing into this 24/7.
posted by ctmf at 9:53 AM on August 19, 2017


"The Office for the Reëstablishment of Democracy and Democratic Norms and diacritical marks"
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:58 AM on August 19, 2017 [19 favorites]


Another thread, another drawing, this time of the very recently departed part time goon and fulltime intellectual fraud Steve Bannon, with apologies to Margaret Keane.
As always, thank you and please feel free to share, download, what have you.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:10 AM on August 19, 2017 [28 favorites]


So the Daily Stormer is back online. In an interview the man responsible spoke out of both sides of his mouth, claiming that he had no idea what type of content the Stormer posts but also that he was doing it because the controversy would be good publicity for his company.

Fuck him.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:15 AM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


Another colleague notes that Bob Mercer’s fetish for destruction encompasses the belief that nuclear radiation is beneficial to one’s health.

Can someone please start sending him radium water?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:18 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


> "The Office for the Reëstablishment of Democracy and Democratic Norms and diacritical marks"
This is very New Yorkeresque.
posted by runcifex at 10:29 AM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


I hope Trump is assassinated

She's just calling for a Second Amendment solution like Trump did. According to Republicans that qualifies her for becoming president.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:32 AM on August 19, 2017 [56 favorites]


Guardian: Reader's Poems for Trump's America
posted by porn in the woods at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


FBI and DHS Warned of Growing Threat From White Supremacists Months Ago
The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security in May warned that white supremacist groups had already carried out more attacks than any other domestic extremist group over the past 16 years and were likely to carry out more attacks over the next year, according to an intelligence bulletin obtained by Foreign Policy.
...
The FBI, on the other hand, has already concluded that white supremacists, including neo-Nazi supporters and members of the Ku Klux Klan, are in fact responsible for the lion’s share of violent attacks among domestic extremist groups. White supremacists “were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016 … more than any other domestic extremist movement,” reads the joint intelligence bulletin.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:39 AM on August 19, 2017 [54 favorites]


Johnny Wallflower, we seriously need a [real] or [fake] tag here.

It's sort of real. Second-hand anonymous claim in the New Yorker.
Another onetime senior employee at Renaissance recalls hearing Mercer downplay the dangers posed by nuclear war. Mercer, speaking of the atomic bombs that the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, argued that, outside of the immediate blast zones, the radiation actually made Japanese citizens healthier. The National Academy of Sciences has found no evidence to support this notion. Nevertheless, according to the onetime employee, Mercer, who is a proponent of nuclear power, “was very excited about the idea, and felt that it meant nuclear accidents weren’t such a big deal.”
posted by Coventry at 10:54 AM on August 19, 2017 [11 favorites]


Here's a link to that interview that Chris24 mentioned above. The stunned looks on Joy Reid and AR Bernard's faces are perfect.
posted by vespabelle at 11:09 AM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Y'all, this is my cousin at the Boston counter-rally. I'm super-proud. (For anybody who doesn't live in the northeast or pay attention to baseball, it's the NY Yankees baseball team.)
posted by theora55 at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2017 [22 favorites]


It's sort of real.

Could have sworn I read something about it in Devil's Bargain too, but I can't find it now.
posted by Coventry at 11:10 AM on August 19, 2017


Looked at a dollar coin, saw Rutherford B Hayes on one side. Gasped at the implications, looked up the Presidential $1 Coin Program and found out the last president honored was Ronald Reagan. Further, the program was limited to honoring deceased former presidents. Congress would need to approve minting coins to honor other former presidents, alive or dead.

Hopefully this means that my fears of a Trump coin won't happen.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:11 AM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hopefully this means that my fears of a Trump coin won't happen.

There should be Trump coins, but they should all be counterfeits, made of cheap alloys covered in gold spraypaint.
posted by acb at 11:15 AM on August 19, 2017 [27 favorites]


There should be Trump coins, but they should all be counterfeits, made of cheap alloys covered in gold spraypaint.

Necco wafers.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:18 AM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump coins would be made of rancid lard, painted with cheap fake gold.
posted by theora55 at 11:20 AM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rubles with a $ sign written in white out on them
posted by PenDevil at 11:36 AM on August 19, 2017 [23 favorites]


Tru-M-P Coins!

Only the strongest, best males on these True Male Power Coins! See Klan Male (camera pans to a coin of a frog mouthed bellowing face barely hidden beneath a too small Klan hood), Alternatively Powered Male (camera pans to a coin with a life-passed-him-by mid-20's face and the new Nazi haircut), and The-Only-Half-Of-The-Second-Amendment Male (camera pans to a coin depicting a a man in Raybans, covered in Tacti-cool garbage gear carrying a similarly over-bedecked assault rifle)!

Collect the whole set today!
posted by Slackermagee at 11:37 AM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


>There should be Trump coins, but they should all be counterfeits, made of cheap alloys covered in gold spraypaint.

>Necco wafers.

Nah, we should just switch to using Circus Peanuts as currency. No spray paint needed; they're already exactly the right color.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:39 AM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Prediction: the Bureau of Engraving strikes a deal and while there will be no Trump coins, there will be a specially printed set of Garbage Pail Kids cards featuring the Trump Administration.
posted by duffell at 11:40 AM on August 19, 2017 [11 favorites]


"Garbage Pail Kids cards featuring the Trump Administration."
That's where I know Steve Bannon from! Thank you so much--that's really been bugging me.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:47 AM on August 19, 2017 [34 favorites]




Counter-protesters in Boston turned out in overwhelming numbers, and apparently the smattering of Nazis who planned to speak left without any speeches given.

Pretty much when I expected of Boston, but very, very proud of New England all the same.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 11:58 AM on August 19, 2017 [67 favorites]


And, as expected, the papers are focused solidly on the biffo.

Watching the CNN live stream showing streets filled with thousands of peaceful marchers while the talking head in charge kept on about "duelling rallies" and "hundreds" of counter-protestors, was also about exactly as galling as I thought it would be beforehand.
posted by flabdablet at 12:20 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Lovely photos in the Guardian of terrible violent left wing types face down in ziptie handcuffs. And plenty of pearl-clutching reportage for both-sidesists to chew on.

Fuck knows how bad the spin will be on Faux and Breinfart.

Those of you with unfortunate uncles on Facebook are in for another rough ride, I should think.
posted by flabdablet at 12:25 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Watching the CNN live stream showing streets filled with thousands of peaceful marchers while the talking head in charge kept on about "duelling rallies" and "hundreds" of counter-protestors, was also about exactly as galling as I thought it would be beforehand.

But the lawless counter-protestors littering and jaywalking. [fake]
posted by ctmf at 12:49 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pretty much exactly like the inauguration coverage, with 75 journalists standing around 8-10 antifa-types burning one trashcan, while 500k+ marched peacefully the next day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:04 PM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


My favorite thing from the march footage so far.

@Mikel_Jollett
THIS is how you protest.
#TubasNotTorches

posted by Crystalinne at 1:06 PM on August 19, 2017 [21 favorites]


We arrived at the Common around 10:45, and the crowd was just starting to build. The heat and humidity got the better of my wife, so we left around 12:30 just as the marchers started streaming into the Common. ALL of the Nazis fit on the gazebo where they were set up to speak. Twenty minutes later, they gave up and slunk away under police protection and escaped in police vans.
posted by briank at 1:12 PM on August 19, 2017 [66 favorites]


My father used to take me on a lot of marches when I was a kid, but the first protest I attended on my own was in 1987 in DC, under the banner of "Mobilization for Justice & Peace in Central America & Southern Africa". This protest attracted all kinds of people, given the broad range of issues. I kind of wandered around and fell in with an anti-nuclear group called No Business As Usual. I don't know if anyone remembers this group, but they were to the left of your typical liberal demonstration attendee, and were best known at the time for their "die-ins".

In any event, I learned a lot of things from them that day, but the most valuable thing one of the older members impressed upon 15-year-old me: everyone has a part to play. Some people stay home but call their congressfolks, some people take part in a human shield between the marchers and reactionaries, some people peacefully march, some people distract the police, some people make performance art out of it, and so forth. He emphasised that not everyone agreed with the die-ins, just as they didn't agree with singing happy songs, but that was fine - we all wanted the same things, and our energy was better spent using our own praxis towards our common goal than brow-beating allies on their own praxis.

In my experience since this has proven absolutely true. When a common enemy has to deal with multiple fronts, they are more likely to be torn apart, and multiple praxes is also more inclusive, which increases your numbers. There's no definitive way to resist, in other words, and the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:26 PM on August 19, 2017 [118 favorites]


looked up the Presidential $1 Coin Program and found out the last president honored was Ronald Reagan

Why does LBJ's coin look like Bill O'Reilly?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:28 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


This tweet was posted, then immediately deleted, then re-posted an hour later without the spelling corrected [is it even a typo??????? Commence "heel" jokes]. This is real.

@realDonaldTrump
Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heel, & we will heel, & be stronger than ever before!

posted by Rust Moranis at 1:38 PM on August 19, 2017 [22 favorites]


We have another Trump tweet:
Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heel, & we will heel, & be stronger than ever before!

Worse yet, he tweeted it a few minutes ago, deleted it, corrected "decade to decades," and tweeted it again, leaving HEEL.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on August 19, 2017 [39 favorites]


I learned a lot of things from them that day, but the most valuable thing one of the older members impressed upon 15-year-old me: everyone has a part to play. . . . our energy was better spent using our own praxis towards our common goal than brow-beating allies on their own praxis.

I love that that's what you retain from the late, great No Business as Usual!
posted by mississippi at 1:39 PM on August 19, 2017


With regards to #TubasNotTorches, this is a local tradition. Boston (Somerville) has a fabulous festival called Honk! ("Reclaim the streets for horns and feet!"). It is a gathering of activist street bands and it is THE BEST. There are actually now several similar Honk festivals (Austin, San Francisco). I got to attend as a member of the Chaotic Insurrection Ensemble twice when I lived in Montreal. CIE accompanied many a protest and gay wedding there.
posted by tingting at 1:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


Mark Burns has got some scary dead fish psychopath eyes!
posted by KateViolet at 1:42 PM on August 19, 2017


Worse yet, he tweeted it a few minutes ago, deleted it, corrected "decade to decades," and tweeted it again, leaving HEEL.

I've been spending too much time dog-training. I thought he meant, "bring the country to heel."
posted by suelac at 1:45 PM on August 19, 2017 [23 favorites]


Is it just me, or are we getting real close to "One people, one government, one leader" territory?
posted by Sphinx at 1:53 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


We are not heeling, as a nation, we never have.
posted by Oyéah at 1:56 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is it just me, or are we getting real close to "One people, one government, one leader" territory?

It was February 28th.

We are one people with one destiny

We all bleed the same blood

We all salute the same flag

And we are all made by the same God.

posted by Rust Moranis at 1:57 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


hmmmm @realdonaldtrump "I want to applaud the many protestors in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate. Our country will soon come together as one!"

n.b. He still won't use the word "Nazi" or the term "white supremacy". Until then, he could just as well be referring to "one folk, one realm" when he talks about coming together. The ambiguity is nothing if not intentional.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:00 PM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


The last couple of days have been so intense, it is only now I got to read Southern Comfort by James M. McPherson, linked in a previous thread. I strongly recommend reading this ASAP, specially if you are dealing with racist uncles or teaching young people or you are a living person in the 21st century.
One quote:
The Confederate vice-president, Alexander H. Stephens, had said in a speech at Savannah on March 21, 1861, that slavery was “the immediate cause of the late rupture and the present revolution” of Southern independence. The United States, said Stephens, had been founded in 1776 on the false idea that all men are created equal. The Confederacy, by contrast,

is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based on this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.3
But there is so much more in that essay, well documented and plainly written. It's a bit long, but go there.
posted by mumimor at 2:00 PM on August 19, 2017 [39 favorites]


I have it on good authority, God bought Trump at a garage sale, with no guarantee, no returns. God said, "This is not my handiwork, I thought my nephew might like him for damning practice."
posted by Oyéah at 2:03 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


‪The ambiguity is nothing if not intentional.

I bet he thinks it's super fucking clever.
posted by Artw at 2:04 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


In case Trump wasn't signalling exactly which side he was on regarding Boston regarding that "many protestors in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate" remark, he also tweeted "Looks like many anti-police agitators in Boston. Police are looking tough and smart! Thank you."
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:05 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


Guess he's come down on one side of the "are the police pro-fascist?" Argument.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


I can't believe Trump misspelled heil twice.
posted by perhapses at 2:24 PM on August 19, 2017 [74 favorites]


I've seen a few friends of friends on Facebook wondering about the prevalence of left-wing violence compared to right-wing violence, with some people even claiming the left is more violent and cherry-picking a bunch of news reports to support their claims. This report seems like it might be a good resource for dispelling misconceptions: Charlottesville underscores how homegrown hate is going unchecked
posted by shponglespore at 2:25 PM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


Twitter: ian bremmer

My dearest Clara,

Morale is low. The men miss their videogames and we are badly outnumbered. However we must press on...

posted by porn in the woods at 2:32 PM on August 19, 2017 [91 favorites]


It needs saying that the massively successful counter-protest in Boston today was due mainly to the efforts of Black Lives Matter. The Cambridge and Boston chapters, with support from BLM National, worked really hard to pull this thing together.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:39 PM on August 19, 2017 [93 favorites]


I've seen a few friends of friends on Facebook wondering about the prevalence of left-wing violence compared to right-wing violence,

Right ring wing extremists killed 106 people between 2001 and 2016 (comparable to 119 by Islamist extremists.) Left wing extremists killed zero.

Not that left wing violence is impossible. Mao, Stalin, right now Maduro... But in America in the 21st century, it's not a thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:39 PM on August 19, 2017 [38 favorites]


Greetings Metafilter! I have returned from the Boston counter protest, sunburned and a little bruised but otherwise not much worse for the wear. We had a lot of fun, yelled some horrible things at some Nazis, and then got roughed up by the cops a little for good measure. (Two friends and I stumbled over the exit the Nazis were using, just as they were being escorted out in paddy wagons. Somewhere north of 200 police officers in full body armor set up a wedge to force an opening big enough for cars, and the crowd didn't move fast enough for them. I was somehow in the front row to make the acquaintance of an unsmiling man with a baton)

By most accounts, counter protesters outnumbered nazis 200 to 1. I've seen estimates as high as 1000 to 1--50 protesters and 45+K counterprotesters. They turned tail and fled in the back of police vehicles before they even turned on the PA system. Boston straight up scared the shit out of these chucklefucks. I've rarely been prouder of my town.
posted by Mayor West at 2:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [188 favorites]


That photo wins the Internet today.
posted by Autumnheart at 2:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Mormon Church Condemned White Supremacists, and This Mormon White Supremacist Mom Is Very Mad About It

"LDS libs" now I've heard everything.
posted by rhizome at 2:43 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


I love that dirty water.
posted by spitbull at 2:49 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


n.b. He still won't use the word "Nazi" or the term "white supremacy".
I'm looking forward to that moment when he declares that "nazi" and "white supremacy" aren't magic words that will just defeat them forever.
posted by xyzzy at 2:50 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Exhilarating video (Twitter, sorry) really shows the scale of Boston's protest vs. the tiny band of Nazis.
posted by spitbull at 2:51 PM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


Take note of silence from your conservative friends on social media.
If they had an opinion about Ferguson
If they had an opinion about freeway protests
If they had an opinion about Kaepernick
If they had an opinion about the marches the day after the inauguration
But they've been oddly silent since Charlottesville
Then you know where they stand. And it's nowhere good.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 2:51 PM on August 19, 2017 [79 favorites]


"There is no evidence that Trump–who on Tuesday equated neo-Nazis and Klansmen with those who protested them in Charlottesville–was suddenly so full of moral indignation that he fired Bannon, whose racist policies were blatantly promulgated in the White House for over six months and who Trump praised this week."

I think this analysis -- which I'm seeing frequently today -- is badly mistaken in two related respects.

It's absolutely correct that this doesn't reflect a move away from the white supremacist right by Trump -- but it's correct for the wrong reasons. Not that there's not a schism between Trump and Bannon, but it's not ideological. It's personal.

The chief evidence for this is that Breitbart has been attacking McMaster and Kelley and the other less-crazy people around Trump for awhile now and it's not them who've been fired. Also, Bannon has always been leaking to his own advantage and to Trump's detriment (when it served Bannon's personal interests), he likes to insinuate that he's pulling Trump's strings, he's arrogant as fuck, and he's not the type to be subservient.

I think Trump has admired but also felt threatened by Bannon all along, and Bannon hasn't actually done a good job managing that. Also, Bannon really is deeply ideological while Trump is more a bigoted asshole with less ideology than demagoguery.

I think Bannon would much prefer to be inside than out; and while Bannon is devious and sly, Trump is definitely not capable of two-dimensional chess, much less six, and much less in secret cooperation with someone else.

Trump would prefer Bannon and Flynn over Kelley and McMaster, that's the politics he will continue to prefer, but Breitbart will continue to criticize any moderation perceived in the administration, and implicitly Trump, now with Bannon's explicit imprintur, and this will annoy Trump.

Trump doesn't play well with others, and Bannon's departure is another example of this. But it absolutely won't mean any moderation in Trump.

Basically, I think Trump's going to bitterly feud with everyone he doesn't transform into a dignity wraith. This development is much better news than if Kelley or McMaster left because Trump's going to become more isolated rather than less.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:53 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


My conservative social-media-friends are a lot of things, but silent is not one of those things.
posted by ctmf at 2:55 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


From DonaldJTrump.com:
I’d Love for You to Join Me

I had my team put together a contest for you and a friend to fly out, join me for an incredible rally, and have our photo taken together.

Our rallies are truly something special. There’s no other energy like it.

Contribute now and you could join me at one of our HUGE rallies!
Always looking for ways to fleece people. Just like during his first campaign there are boxes you can check to make your donation of $35.00 up to $2,700 into a monthly donation.

I'm really surprised he hasn't started auctioning off memorabilia from the WH yet. "Own this hand towel that was used on AirForce One."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:00 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


I marched somewhere in the middle of the crowd, ran up some stairs midway and could not see either end, a four lane road & sidewalks totally filled with calm patient protesters with a huge variety of signs. 40k is probably a low estimate, it just kept growing in density. Festive, serious in message but generally calm.

There were a few folks wearing bandannas the entire day, I wandered over to a group of 20 or so and got no real answer to why they were wearing the mask, they seemed all pretty young with misplaced idealism.

The police plan was pretty good but downtown Boston is just small and dense and it's really hard to avoid a choke point without totally shutting down the entire city, the original protesters probably saw a feed of the truly immense crowd approaching and decided to bail early off schedule and didn't give the officials enough time to clear a path.
posted by sammyo at 3:01 PM on August 19, 2017 [15 favorites]


So the white supremacists were trolling with posters like "Black Lives Do Matter," don't get tripped up if some idiot falls for stupid nazi tricks.
posted by Yowser at 3:03 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think Trump fears Bannon for some reason. The exit was notable for its lack of attendant bananapants tweeting.

I say that with full cognizance of Trump's declining, ah, mental, decline. Which is sad. Whatever that fear may be it's likely entirely unspoken now whereas just a few years ago he'd have worked up some riff about it. Hell, just six months ago he'd have burbled up some subconscious distress yodeling.

And now just silence. Scowly-pouting at his wig in the mirror.
posted by petebest at 3:10 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


It needs saying that the massively successful counter-protest in Boston today was due mainly to the efforts of Black Lives Matter. The Cambridge and Boston chapters, with support from BLM National, worked really hard to pull this thing together.
I marched with a couple of friends and some Crone Islanders in the BLM procession from Roxbury to The Boston Common and it was a fantastic party -- super positive, diverse, and lit with music ("We Shall Overcome", "Senzenina"). It felt really good to be part of that united crowd and for all of it to be peaceful.

There was a lot of talk on our social media networks the night before about whether it was going to be safe or not. Most of know about the city's earlier bussing riots and it's other problematic racist baggage. We all had doubts, and a lot of people chose not to attend because they didn't feel it would be safe, and none of us could blame them.

Honestly and weirdly, I think the first thing that made me feel safe were actually the cops. There was heavy police presence at Roxbury, and more importantly, the cops were in regular uniforms. No armor. No shields. No battle gear. They were there to watch and route crowds. They also had blocked off the parade route a block deep. And I feel terrible in thinking it, but that at least gave me some confidence that a car-ram would get shot by a cop before it got to a crowd.

But then after that it was just the usual scene. We've been doing this for six months now. There are familiar faces. Boston Metro's not that big of a city. Women's March, CAIR Rally, March for Science, the last BLM march, and then the one before that -- enough of us have shown up. We know the chants. We know the claps. It's a nice morning and BLM picked a pretty part of the city for us to march through, with Puerto Rican and Haitian flags poking out of apartment buildings to show that our neighbors were on our side.

We were expecting a riot. We got a party, and that's all to the good.
posted by bl1nk at 3:17 PM on August 19, 2017 [86 favorites]


@DustinGiebel: This photo is going around claiming violent Antifa had boards with nails in Boston. It's from a Dover 2015 protest.

Commenters are pointing out that the people in the photo are dressed for cold weather... and in Boston today it was 80F.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:18 PM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


My small handful of conservative fb friends apparently feel that chiding reminders about the importance of free speech is the important thing to do right now, rather than USING their own personal free speech to loudly condemn white supremacists and give public, unequivocal support for their targets. I can't decide if I find this more or less awful than if they had just stayed silent.

Why do they think everybody needs a lecture on "The First Amendment: A Comprehensive Review" every time this shit happens? I haven't had time to forget about the First Amendment since the last time they opted to remind me it exists rather than put it to action themselves. And I'm deeply ashamed at myself, because this has opened my eyes to quiet bigotries in a few casual friends that I didn't even realize were present, because the topics that would have exposed them never previously came up. They should have come up. I will be proactive about bringing them up in the future.
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 3:27 PM on August 19, 2017 [39 favorites]


Why do they think everybody needs a lecture on "The First Amendment: A Comprehensive Review" every time this shit happens?

Because it's a safe position to take, and conservatives also live in Bizarro World where the status quo of the white cis male is the *real* marginalized party because SJWs run the country now and all.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:31 PM on August 19, 2017 [28 favorites]


Right ring wing extremists killed 106 people between 2001 and 2016 (comparable to 119 by Islamist extremists.) Left wing extremists killed zero.

You gotta count 9/11. Move the start date to 1995 & you can include Oklahoma City but the number's still severely unbalanced against Islamists. It's not enough to sound good, it has to be true.
posted by scalefree at 3:31 PM on August 19, 2017 [9 favorites]


and also, as a friend that I marched with said, "Boston's the kind of city that has problems talking about love, unity, or peace, but if you want us to come out and yell at a bunch of idiots with one week's notice, then we will show the fuck up."
posted by bl1nk at 3:36 PM on August 19, 2017 [120 favorites]


We were expecting a riot. We got a party, and that's all to the good.

This!!!

Wish we'd had a mifi meetup in the middle. (although any meeting would have been a challenge, I kept my cell off mostly the circuits must have been slow). Really can not express being in the middle of a crowd of nice polite folks that stretched further than the eye could see in either direction!
posted by sammyo at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why do they think everybody needs a lecture on "The First Amendment: A Comprehensive Review" every time this shit happens?

Apparently we also need to focus on building bridges. Why would anyone want to build bridges to nazis?
posted by snofoam at 3:38 PM on August 19, 2017 [12 favorites]


You have to wonder if the Nazis are like Allan from Freaks and Geeks and are just dicks cuz we never invited them to come to a Drag Brunch with us.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:40 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why would anyone want to build bridges to nazis?

Well it's a lot easier than rowing across the river with the Nazi wolf, the Nazi chicken and the Nazi corn.
posted by mightygodking at 3:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [57 favorites]


the Nazi chicken

Worst disco craze ever
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:43 PM on August 19, 2017 [57 favorites]


I went to the Boston counterprotest for a couple of hours mid-afternoon, and am just now getting home. The energy was good, and there were a lot of people-- the radio said maybe 30,000 counterprotestors and 50 or so Nazi types. Despite fewer numbers, the common was about as full as it was during the Womens' March, because people weren't also spread out marching.

Many, many signs. The person next to me on the T on the way over was carrying a sign, as was I, so we started talking, and it turned out, completely coincidentally, that she is presently enrolled at the small liberal arts college my wife and I both went to, which is several states away. She had come up for the occasion. It was nice to have somebody there to have my back, since none of my family could make it.

We had been worried on the train about how things would go, but there were thorough barricades and we basically couldn't even see the actual Nazi types, let alone physically interact with them. Every so often one of them would break out a Confederate flag or something like that, at which point the police would immediately confiscate it. One of them got perp-walked away while I was there, but I didn't see what for. The police presence was huge and generally polite to us counterprotestors. I have to say, the sirens that bike cops use are among the silliest things I have heard in quite a while.

There was one dude wandering around shouting about how he wanted to [insert violence and sexual profanity] Trump and Trump's children, but everybody he came near was shouting at him to just shut up and go home. I couldn't tell his ethnicity beyond 'not white', but he was also wearing a hat with the Washington Racists' logo-- I mean their real logo-- and the crowd was not having with that either. So it was uncomfortable when he wandered by, but the crowd very clearly was not on his side and was not going to let him harass any individual people.

The most intense things got is that somebody set fire to a swastika flag, I think with a blowtorch. It burned very hot and fast, to intense cheers, and produced a lot of smoke, but I think it had gone out entirely by the time the cops arrived-- it had clearly been timed for when the bike patrol was circling around the other end of the Common. At any rate, I don't believe anyone was arrested in connection with that.

I am proud of my city today. A lot of people in the crowd were worried about violence, I was worried about violence, my train-met friend was worried, and that worry was explicitly why we had to be there. Because no. We refuse to give up when things get scary.

It was a good counterprotest.
posted by Rush-That-Speaks at 3:44 PM on August 19, 2017 [90 favorites]


A friend of mine posted my favorite of the many signs I saw from Boston: DISQUALIFIED
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:52 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Commenters are pointing out that the people in the photo are dressed for cold weather... and in Boston today it was 80F.

From the comments:

Rob#NotMyPresident @rhiles2760
People wearing jackets in Boston in August. Is it that cold there today?

Dinky @Dinky2112
There was a flurry of about 30 snowflakes.

Bwahahahahahaha!
posted by Autumnheart at 3:52 PM on August 19, 2017 [87 favorites]


After Charlottesville, Republicans remain stymied about what to do about Trump (Dan Balz, WaPo):
It’s clear that, as of now, many Republicans — lawmakers, leaders and strategists — have reached a pair of uncomfortable conclusions. First, whatever they and a majority of the public believe about the repugnancy of the president’s comments, they believe Trump was duly elected as president on the Republican ticket and that he retains a deeply loyal following within the party. They are reluctant to go against that Trump base.

Second, however personally upset they are by Trump’s remarks, many lawmakers believe they must maintain a working relationship with the president if they are to accomplish their legislative goals — including tax reform and even a health-care overhaul.

...

A GOP strategist working campaigns in red and purple states said that while support for Trump generally declined slightly since Charlottesville, support rose among his base, after a decline last month because of the failure on health care and revelations about the Russia investigation.

...

One strategist said he had just seen the numbers from a survey in a battleground state and that the president’s approval among GOP primary voters stood at a still-impressive 85 percent. For elected officials, political survival remains paramount, and they are reluctant to get crosswise with that base.

He added that Republican elected officials “either have to feel punished or be punished” before they will break significantly with the president. “There has to be some sense that there is a price to be paid for this,” he said.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:04 PM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


We went to a black-organized march today that was located in a neighborhood near our local Google, but not overtly connecting itself to that (as far as I've heard, none of those whiners showed up there after "postponing" their little hissy fit). A few hundred folks there. The whole thing was an amazing effort pulled off in an insanely short turn-around. I hope all the organizers get some sleep tonight because I'm pretty sure they've been getting none.

On our way to the march we drove nearish Google and came across a group of wobblies who looked like they were deployed to monitor the roads running from Google to the black communities adjacent. I think the only people at Google were counter-protesters and antifa (some armed) anyway. There was a helicopter circling the entire area all afternoon.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:11 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


How can you tell when it's Trump writing his tweets? He misspells a word you learned in 3rd grade.
posted by scalefree at 4:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]




You gotta count 9/11

That was 16 years ago. At the time there was reason to fear it would be an ongoing threat, that attacks like that might become common in the future. The point of the GAO report isbthr they have not. Over the entire lifetime if kids who are now in high school, the threat level from right wing extremists has been just as bad as the threat level from Islamist.

And if you have got to include 9/11, why not go back further and include lynch mobs... or the civil war? Integrated over the whole history of the US, white supremacists are undoubtedly the bigger threat.

(I wish we could know how many innocent Muslim civilians n other countries have been needlessly killed by American white supremacists under cover of military action, because that feels to me like it should count in this moral calculus too, but of course we will never know. Those deaths cannot be separated from the genuine accidents caught in the crossfire.)

The right wing makes a big deal of the ongoing threat from Islamist extremists... But they themselves are just as big a threat.

And when they make a point of the supposed threat from left wing extremists, it is just too, too ironic.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:20 PM on August 19, 2017 [36 favorites]


Hey rhizome, there are a lot of very progressive folks in the LDS community! The Mormons I know are universally smart, caring, and would completely fit in with the anti-racist, feminist, LGBT pride, disability rights march of your choice. Not the majority, not yet, but times are a-changing all over the place.
posted by Andrhia at 4:23 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


That was 16 years ago.

Either you count 9/11 or you change the start date to 2002 & explain why.
posted by scalefree at 4:26 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


OnceUponATime, the original quote was Right ring wing extremists killed 106 people between 2001 and 2016. 9/11 happened in 2001, so should have been included.
posted by bakerybob at 4:28 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Police commissioner estimated 40,000 pro-democracy demonstrators in Boston. On Boylston, as the angry crowd awaited the Nazis coming out in prisoner-transport wagons ("Make them walk!" people yelled), some self-professed libertarian who'd wrapped himself in a "Don't Tread on Us" flag got into an argument with somebody else about the nature of democracy or something. Looked pretty certain he was about to get a beatdown, but just then a contingent of Veterans for Peace arrived, moved up front and started chanting "No violence! No violence!" and that seemed to calm everybody down, at least until the armored cops arrived and the Nazi-bearing wagons slowly drove out. The Nazis pulled out so early that they were gone from the bandstand by the time most of the marchers from Roxbury arrived.
posted by adamg at 4:30 PM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


Either you count 9/11 or you change the start date to 2002 & explain why.

Again, the point of the report is to assess the threat SINCE 9/11. Take it up with the GAO if you have a problem with that, but I can't really can't understand why you would. No one has forgotten 9/11.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:30 PM on August 19, 2017 [19 favorites]


I think "since 9/11" is the whole point of the totaling. How has 9/11 changed our minds and made us focus too much on the wrong thing. And, looking at the pdf (which ended its count mid-2016), the Islamic extremist terrorism wouldn't have eked out its higher numbers (119 to 106) if it weren't for the last event on the list; 49 deaths in Orlando.
Not that it shouldn't be counted, but just saying the list happened to stop at a time to include the largest Islamic extremist death toll.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:31 PM on August 19, 2017 [11 favorites]


The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security in May warned that white supremacist groups had already carried out more attacks than any other domestic extremist group over the past 16 years

Who could have forseen they would fly Donny Johnny Umptray into the White House?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:31 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


On re-reading the feedback I realize people have a problem with the way I cited the dates and not with the dates the GAO chose to look at. I admit that could have clearer. I guess I figured it was self evident that 9/11 was not included, but perhaps I should have made that explicit.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heel, & we will heel, & be stronger than ever before!


Sure hope it's as simple as a misspelling and not some dog whistle reference to a curb stomp à la American History X [Warning: extremely graphic and soul-stealing scene]

Insane either way.
posted by HyperBlue at 4:51 PM on August 19, 2017


He added that Republican elected officials “either have to feel punished or be punished” before they will break significantly with the president. “There has to be some sense that there is a price to be paid for this,” he said.

Indeed.

It's just a little slimy, it's still good! It's still good!
posted by petebest at 4:52 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


The moral cowardice on display in that WaPo article ("After Charlottesville, Republicans remain stymied about what to do about Trump") is fucking astounding. These slabs of shit don't even pretend to care about anything other than holding on to power. They continue to speak as if accusations of racism in the GOP are just political mudslinging from the left, after their electorate voted overwhelmingly for a brazen racist, and after they continue to support him overwhelmingly even as he makes it clearer every day that he's on the side of fucking white supremacists. And they speak of Charlottesville in purely political terms, without the slightest concern for the millions of PoC (and others) whose safety and place in society suddenly seem less secure than ever.

Fuck them. There isn't a scrap of the GOP that's worth salvaging. If you stand idly by while your country and party are consumed by literal fascism, because you don't think it would be politically expedient to stick your head out, then you are a fucking collaborator. Take your "grave concerns" and shove them up your fucking ass.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:56 PM on August 19, 2017 [76 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heel, & we will heel, & be stronger than ever before!


I fear for the sole of the nation.
posted by nubs at 4:57 PM on August 19, 2017 [134 favorites]


White supremacists who celebrated the death of Heather Heyer are holding a rally in Vancouver, BC tomorrow. Wish us luck with the counterprotest.

I think Vancouver did okay. A friend of mine who was present spotted a total of four "free speech" protesters, including one guy apparently caught on video surreptitiously removing a Nazi pin . The winning CBC reckons four thousand counter-protesters and "several" protesters. Looks like a street party.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:01 PM on August 19, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wait wait wait. Perhaps it's a reference to wrestling! Nah. He's not that clever.
posted by thebrokedown at 5:02 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


To me, 9/11 was the greatest FAILURE of terrorism in history. They sent two airliners into buildings not known for their structural integrity (read about the construction of the WTC; they were perfect targets), containing 50,000-100,000 people in their offices (the variation is based on the attack occurring before everyone had arrived for work) and when it was all over, they had killed 3000 including almost 200 rescue workers who went INTO the buildings after the attacks. Oh, that also included those at the Pentagon, considered, by comparison, one of the hardest least-vulnerable targets and the one plane that went down in an empty field. If the Twin Towers hadn't been built to be easily demolished, the death toll would've been not much more than McVeigh's in OKC. A little study and I personally concluded that Al Queda wasn't competent enough to be a true terrorist threat.

Then again, comparing the toll from the London Bridge and Barcelona car-based attacks and the one in Charlotteville, the American Nazis aren't much better. MeFites are still far more likely to die from cancer or heart disease (I'm currently under treatment for the latter so that contributes to my anecdotal perspective). And much more likely to do so if a Republican "Health Care" Plan is implemented. The true Terrorists are the ones some of us have elected.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:05 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Right ring wing extremists killed 106 people between 2001 and 2016 (comparable to 119 by Islamist extremists.) Left wing extremists killed zero.

Not that left wing violence is impossible. Mao, Stalin, right now Maduro... But in America in the 21st century, it's not a thing.


Micah Johnson, a black man, killed 5 police officers in 2016 because he was angry about police killing black people. Considering the popularity of BLM with people on the left, and the popularity of "blue lives matter" as a slogan on the right, I think you have to squint pretty hard to see his actions as something other than politically motivated violence from someone on the left.

The article I linked makes it clear that right-wing violence is vastly more common and more deadly than left-wing violence. The facts are on our side no matter how they're spun. We gain nothing by refusing the acknowledge violent acts that many people justifiably ascribe to the left.
posted by shponglespore at 5:06 PM on August 19, 2017 [15 favorites]


Super proud of my hometown today. #BostonStrong

Yay Boston!

Having spent some time in your beautiful city the other year, I love the spirit of that place and stand beside y'all 100%.

(because I'm on the other side of the world, if anybody could grab a pastrami sandwich from Michael's deli at Cooldige Corner or some bagels from Kupel's on Harvard Avenue, then please enjoy them on my behalf)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:07 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Recommended future protest sign:
AMERICA WILL HEAL
BECAUSE WE WON'T
HEEL TO YOU

posted by oneswellfoop at 5:09 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


I fear for the sole of the nation.

we need to be instep with one another - until we all enjoy life, nike, and the pursuit of adidas
posted by pyramid termite at 5:15 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


That song from the Vancouver counter-protest is actually kind of catchy... I'd love to know what it is.
posted by Yowser at 5:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Thats perfect but Id suggest only ital-ing "heal" and "heel"
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:17 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]



we need to be instep with one another - until we all enjoy life, nike, and the pursuit of adidas


One pronation under Scholl
posted by nubs at 5:20 PM on August 19, 2017 [16 favorites]


Recommended future protest sign:
AMERICA WILL HEAL
BECAUSE WE WON'T
HEEL TO YOU


Clever, but I really don't think they'd get it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:20 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


On re-reading the feedback I realize people have a problem with the way I cited the dates and not with the dates the GAO chose to look at. I admit that could have clearer. I guess I figured it was self evident that 9/11 was not included, but perhaps I should have made that explicit.

The thing that made me jumpy about it was that yesterday somebody posted it to a FB thread but they decided to cut a corner by moving the start date to 2004. Naturally he was called out & didn't have a good answer. I agree it works best if you explicitly state that 9/11 was an outlier.

Sorry if I came across a bit snippy.
posted by scalefree at 5:22 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Toe the line, nubs. Toe the line.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:23 PM on August 19, 2017


(because I'm on the other side of the world, if anybody could grab a pastrami sandwich from Michael's deli at Cooldige Corner or some bagels from Kupel's on Harvard Avenue, then please enjoy them on my behalf)

Oh dear lord the poppyseed rolls at Kupel's.
posted by scalefree at 5:28 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh dear lord the poppyseed rolls at Kupel's.

I forgot those. *drools*
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:33 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apologies if this was mentioned upthread. The white supremacists/alt-right are trying to spin the Boston rally into an event that seems to somehow be progressive, and "a ha"—the foolish "alt-left" suppressed their right to free speech. Here are a few of the alt-right/neo nazi placards from inside the rotunda in Boston. Slogans include "Black lives do matter", "No to GMO's: Stop Monsanto", and "Real Jobs, Real Health, Real Education". This was supposedly staged after their pathetic attempt of a rally, a pre planned response in the event of failure (which is inevitable). More examples of this spin can be seen here [twitter].
posted by standardasparagus at 5:38 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


There are actually now several similar Honk festivals (Austin, San Francisco).

...Is there one in New York City? Because boogieing along behind a marching band is the way I want to spend my next protest. (For one anti-Iraq war march I teamed up with three college students to form a choir and sing Edwin Starr's "War (What Is It Good For)").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:48 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Those "progressive" rally signs are for shiva4senatea
"shock candidate"
posted by stagewhisper at 5:56 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't get the "Black lives do matter" poster... It's a good development that they're saying that, no? What's the downside?
posted by Coventry at 5:58 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's a thing on Breitbart that says that Bannon's exit means Obama's third term and I was looking at it just---??? ??? !! ???? !!

I bring this up because I have been obsessed with the divergence of news streams since I read about it in The New Yorker as something of predictive value in terms of civil war or no. (They surveyed a bunch of historians and put the chances of civil war at only 35%, think of it this way, it means a 65% chance we'll endure as a nation to face the perils of climate change, plague, and nuclear proliferation!

But seriously, it took me way too long to figure out what that headline meant, and then I was way too surprised by the meaning when I did.
posted by angrycat at 6:04 PM on August 19, 2017


Micah Johnson, a black man, killed 5 police officers in 2016 because he was angry about police killing black people. Considering the popularity of BLM with people on the left, and the popularity of "blue lives matter" as a slogan on the right, I think you have to squint pretty hard to see his actions as something other than politically motivated violence from someone on the left.

Sure. But then we count an American citizen shooting up a gay Mexican dance club as violence from the right by very similar arguments. It is also perfectly reasonable to leave cases out that are harder to fit comfortably on the American political spectrum of left vs. right. There's always stuff that's going to be a judgement call.
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:05 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't get the "Black lives do matter" poster..

Because it's trolling to try to make the left look bad. They announced that they're holding a rally with notorious right wing cranks speaking to bring out 40,000+ counter protesters and then show up and wave Black Lives Matter signs. It's creating the narrative that the left will shut down perfectly reasonable points of view.
posted by Candleman at 6:08 PM on August 19, 2017 [8 favorites]


But seriously, it took me way too long to figure out what that headline meant

I think I saw a quote from Breitbart, on the day the resignation or firing happened, to the effect that this means that there is now a "Democratic White House". So this seems to be the message they have settled on.
posted by thelonius at 6:08 PM on August 19, 2017


The last couple of days have been so intense, it is only now I got to read Southern Comfort

That's funny, the last couple of months have been so intense I've been drinking Southern Comfort.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:10 PM on August 19, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's creating the narrative that the left will shut down perfectly reasonable points of view.

Yeah... This isn't anywhere near as effective as they seem to think. I'm pretty sure most people will not get it.
posted by greermahoney at 6:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [12 favorites]


Artw:
Israeli Minister: Relations with Trump Are More Important than Calling out Nazis


I think this says a lot about international politics in the era of Trump. Ayoub Kara is a Druse, a member of an ethno-religious group mostly located around the border regions of Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. Historically, the Druse survived by the Swiss model of being very tough fighters who kept to themselves up in the mountains. Nowadays that model doesn't work as well, so they are very careful to position themselves as loyal ethnic minorities within the various states in which they abide. E.g., Lebanese Druse are patriotically incensed against the "Zionist Entity"; Israeli ones serve (voluntarily) in the IDF; Syrian ones used to go on about how fantastic Assad was - I'm not sure what they do now. They did all this while maintaining strong familial and economic ties with each other, which is quite impressive.

Right now the three-state balance is collapsing and the Druse ate threatened as they haven't been for centuries. Israeli Druse are of course threatened to the extent Israel is threatened, but all of the Druse communities are vulnerable to Iran's plan to make a great Shi'ite crescent across the Middle East. Iran is more-or-less backed by Russia, and the only real obstacle it faces is the fact that Israel is theoretically backed by the USA. From Israel's perspective, it's really important that this (mostly-unwritten) understanding not be questioned, because who knows whether and to what extent the US would actually support Israel.

It isn't just Israel that has apparently adopted a no-criticism policy. There are lots of vulnerable countries that might be expected to have thoughts on the rise of the alt-Right in the USA, but we haven't heard from most of them and I don't expect we will. Trump is a vengeful idiot and literally millions of lives are at stake. It would be incredibly irresponsible for Israel or Finland or Ukraine or any other vulnerable country to risk losing the implicit assurance of US support.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:22 PM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


Netanyahu spent the last four years masquerading as a Republican tea party Senator from the 51st red state of Israel, there's no reason to expect anything different from the Israeli government than say, Tom Cotton or Mike Lee. They went all in on hating Obama and Democrats, and now that their party is in the White House, they're behind him no matter what, and that includes his endorsement of Nazis. Go back to 2011 and explain that sentence to someone. 2017, where even Israel has a hard time condemning Nazism!
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 PM on August 19, 2017 [36 favorites]


> while support for Trump generally declined slightly since Charlottesville, support rose among his base, after a decline last month because of the failure on health care and revelations about the Russia investigation.
This is how civil wars would typically start.
posted by runcifex at 6:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


Imagine if America declared war on the nazis. Sympathising and collaboration were treason with dire consequences for the guilty. Hundreds of thousands of anti-fascists were armed and sent to confront nazis. Yes, there would be violence on both sides.
posted by adept256 at 6:50 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Remember, the alt-right/Trumpist/Liars have been complaining that Donald's ineffectiveness was because of interference from establishment/Democratic/goodpeople in the "Deep State". With "the Generals" in most of the powerful jobs, they can easily claim that "the Deep State has won and is now controlling the White House". The only political effect this will have is to threaten that the elected Republicans will lose support from "the base" but splitting the GOP is most likely to make the midterm Democratic wave tsunami-size, so I welcome Bannon's tack for the NotTooBrightbart.

And speaking of splits, putting Mercer money supporting different Republicans than Koch money in the primaries could reduce the war chests available when it's time to fight the Democrats. And this can only help to keep the GoldmanSachs money away from all the Republicans, helping the Ds without them having to make promises to the bankers...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:52 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Hill: New animated sitcom would chronicle crime-fighting Biden and Obama

When your fanfiction daydreams come true.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:55 PM on August 19, 2017 [17 favorites]


You're placing the moral burden of condemning Trump on people who didn't elect him but are highly vulnerable to his vindictive response. And you're not even distributing the burden equally: it's the Jewish State that has failed to denounce antisemitism in a way that satisfies you, not (e.g.) Poland or Ukraine or the Baltic states.

There is one country that has the moral duty of condemning Trump, and it's not Israel.

There are several countries with an historic responsibility for Nazism that might impose a moral duty to condemn its resurgence, but again: not Israel.

You're demanding that Israel take a stronger stand against Trump because of its vulnerability to antisemitism. You want its victims to be a good moral example to the feckless, racist, indolent mob in the USA. Can you not see how wrong this is?
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:06 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sure. But then we count an American citizen shooting up a gay Mexican dance club as violence from the right by very similar arguments. It is also perfectly reasonable to leave cases out that are harder to fit comfortably on the American political spectrum of left vs. right. There's always stuff that's going to be a judgement call.

Oh FFS. I assume you're talking about the Pulse massacre. It wasn't a Mexican club, and the shooter was a Muslim who claimed allegiance to ISIS.

But anyway, it's beside the point. The existence of widespread lethal violence from right-wing extremists is not in dispute. The conclusion is the same regardless of whether you claim the Pulse massacre as a right-wing incident, and saying it is just makes you sound silly, because nobody actually believes that. OTOH, lots of people consider the Dallas incident to be an example of left-wing violence. Saying (or implying) that it's not will just come off as disingenuous to those people.

You can argue that left-wing violence is relatively rare, or that it's rarely lethal, and you'd be absolutely correct. You could even argue that it's justified. But you cannot claim with any credibility that it doesn't exist, because it obviously does, and it obviously has a lot of support. Just look at all the videos of Richard Spencer getting punched.
posted by shponglespore at 7:07 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


I know it's Ben Wittes' usual Twitter tease and all but what the heel hell, its late on a Saturday night, perfect time for a beer and a shot.

Sweet dreams.
posted by spitbull at 7:08 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey guys, just got back from our week at the beach. I sure hope nothing has happened in the news since last Friday!
posted by Chrysostom at 7:09 PM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


Is Ben Wittes' little cannon canon?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:13 PM on August 19, 2017


If a Wittes' cannon is canon, is this a Bannon canon cannon or have we decided as a community that we're bannin' cannon?
posted by Freon at 7:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


This isn't anywhere near as effective as they seem to think. I'm pretty sure most people will not get it.

I think you're underestimating the media savvy of parts of the right wing propagandists. The "liberals suppress the good people too!" narrative spreads like wildfire in my parents' circles. I got many forwards of stuff like this until I finally blocked them.
posted by Candleman at 7:17 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Wilson said his sources told him the President's post-Charlottesville numbers were "apocalyptic" when, so far, if anything they've improved. Obviously that could be the fault of his sources rather than he himself but it still doesn't inspire confidence.
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


Apparently not satire:
Kennedy Center thanks Trump for 'gesture' of not attending annual honors
The chairman and president of the Kennedy Center said they were “grateful for this gesture” after it was announced President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump would not attend the Kennedy Center Honors in December.

“The Kennedy Center respects the decision made today by the office of the president of the United States,” chairman David M. Rubenstein and president Deborah F. Rutter said in a joint statement.

“In choosing not to participate in this year’s Honors activities, the administration has graciously signaled its respect for the Kennedy Center and ensures the Honors gala remains a deservingly special moment for the honorees. We are grateful for this gesture," they said.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [88 favorites]


and "a ha"—the foolish "alt-left" suppressed their right to free speech.

Doesn't make much sense to say anyone suppressed their right to free speech when they had a stage, a PA, a police protection zone around them, an audience of 40,000, and all the media coverage including aerial shots, but then they left without speaking.
posted by ctmf at 7:45 PM on August 19, 2017 [54 favorites]


I mean, Jesus, what does 'not suppressed' even look like, do I have to move your mouth for you?
posted by ctmf at 7:47 PM on August 19, 2017 [20 favorites]


Just had to unfriend a FB person because she posted this long rant about how Trump is great, his kids are smart, and his wife is beautiful and no other POTUS in history is as attacked as much as Trump. his kids and his wife. This is the core of Trump's support. They're never gonna change. We elected a black man and now all must be fixed because of it.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:47 PM on August 19, 2017 [25 favorites]


"Freedom of the Press Is Guaranteed Only to Those Who Own One"
In the Internet Age, it's more like "...Those Who Own a Domain", since, as noted here "If you're not paying for it, you're the product being sold."

But in another aspect, "Freedom of Speech usually only belongs to the loudest voice (or loudest amplifier)"

But I'm firmly of the belief that the First Amendment is abused as frequently as the Second, and often resulting in as much death and injury. Nothing like a few years working in the Mass Media to cure a belief in Free Speech Absolutism. (And anybody who isn't cured is either an idiot or playing to an audience of idiots)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:59 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Doesn't make much sense to say anyone suppressed their right to free speech when they had a stage, a PA, a police protection zone around them, an audience of 40,000, and all the media coverage including aerial shots, but then they left without speaking.
well, actually, they did maybe one or two speeches and then walked off. A friend who was not present but trying to observe the Free Speech folks via Periscope said she listened to their speeches and they were reasonable sounding in the way that the James Damore's Anti Diversity Memo was reasonable sounding or "It's All About Ethics in Free Expression Journalism"

and they were surrounded by a crowd booing and chanting over their words. It's a bit disingenuous for me to interpret your exercise of free speech as your ability to move your meat lips and make sounds come out, if I also do my utmost best to drown out your sounds before they can be heard by their audience.

Not that I'm saying that they're at all in the right, but I think their complaints about having their free speech curtailed are somewhat merited. I just don't privilege their right to a free podium over any of our rights to feel safe in our own country.
posted by bl1nk at 7:59 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


No, their complaints have no merit. Free speech is not a one way street.

But these are people who see themselves as the only oppressed minority in the country so facts are useless against them anyway.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:05 PM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


That's edging pretty close into demanding not that I let you speak, but that I DON'T speak back. They had a PA, no? Your friend could hear them? I'm not seeing the curtailment.
posted by ctmf at 8:08 PM on August 19, 2017 [25 favorites]


Their free speech was in no way curtailed in the slightest. They were allowed to assemble and were not punished by the government for what they said. Free speech does not mean "Nobody can disagree with me" or "People have to listen to what I say".

They expected attention and kudos and they didn't get them. They did get a taste of what it feels like to be overwhelmingly outnumbered by people who hate your guts and are standing only feet away. Good. I hope that feeling keeps them awake at night. That's exactly the feeling they want us to have, so I hope they got a good fucking dose of their own medicine.

It also bears remembering that it matters what these people wanted to say. To paraphrase the dude who rebutted the Google memo, not all ideas have merit and deserve a platform. Moreover, speech has consequences, protected by the Constitution or not. Just because you don't end up in jail doesn't mean 20,000 people will not show up to personally give you the finger and call you an asshole. They should be grateful that the left has a greater respect for the rule of law than they do.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:14 PM on August 19, 2017 [79 favorites]


1.) I have no obligation regarding free speech, I'm not the government.

2.) If 25,000 people sing to each other to avoid hearing me, that's not a constitutional issue.

(ETA: 3.) The government did their job re: free speech very well, imo.)
posted by Horkus at 8:15 PM on August 19, 2017 [27 favorites]


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

At what point did the government curtail the free speech rights of the white supremacists? They were allowed to have their event, they were protected by the police, they had a PA. Just because other people are also using their free speech rights at the same time doesn't mean that anyone's rights were infringed upon.
posted by Weeping_angel at 8:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [16 favorites]


standing only feet away.

More like 300 feet. Boston Police had a pretty large perimeter around the bandstand where they were.
posted by adamg at 8:18 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


The fact that the counter-protestors were kept so far away was more deference than the Nazis deserved, in my opinion. Yes, separate the sides for the sake of public order, but if you can only muster a gazebo of racists then you don't get to take over the whole area.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:19 PM on August 19, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's a bit disingenuous for me to interpret your exercise of free speech as your ability to move your meat lips and make sounds come out, if I also do my utmost best to drown out your sounds before they can be heard by their audience.

Wow that's just shockingly goddamned stupid. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "a right to an audience" or "a right to be heard". The city of Boston met their obligations regarding freedom of speech; those obligations apply to government, not to individuals or private entities.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:21 PM on August 19, 2017 [35 favorites]


Incidentally, neither Google nor DuckDuckGo found any earlier example of "gazebo of racists" used on the Web. So at long last I have contributed something to the English language.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:22 PM on August 19, 2017 [131 favorites]


The question is, would you want the SI unit of racists to be small, so that you'd have to measure much larger gatherings in Megagazebos, or large so that this would only be like, a milliRepublicanParty of racists?
posted by ctmf at 8:26 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


obviously, I'm doing a poor job of proxying for this argument, so I'm taking this moment to get some rest after a long day.
posted by bl1nk at 8:28 PM on August 19, 2017


TIL "gazebo" is the collective noun for Nazis.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:34 PM on August 19, 2017 [30 favorites]


Ah, there's the problem. Proxy for "someone else's" argument rarely goes well on MetaFilter.
posted by ctmf at 8:35 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


That argument doesn't need proxying. Too many people already don't know what "freedom of speech" actually means. There's no reason to perpetuate the lie by arguing falsely that the racists' rights were curtailed.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:36 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


TIL "gazebo" is the collective noun for Nazis.

I shoot the gazebo with my crossbow.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:39 PM on August 19, 2017 [47 favorites]


You have angered the gazebo. It eats the Nazis.
posted by The otter lady at 8:40 PM on August 19, 2017 [81 favorites]


That right there is a deep cut otter lady.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:43 PM on August 19, 2017 [13 favorites]


why would anyone want to build A bridge to nazis?
Building bridges to Nazis was a key part of winning WW2
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:57 PM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just had to unfriend a FB person because she posted this long rant about how [...] no other POTUS in history is as attacked as much as Trump.

Suggested reading.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:00 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, I was in Boston. Some thoughts in no particular order:

- We attended one of the Black Lives Matter hosted non violent resistance trainings the week before the rally. A lot of middle-aged white ladies were there. Many got visibly nervous as the legal trainer went into intimate detail about what happens when you get arrested, what with the holding cell and the $40 cash and waiting potentially all weekend for bail - but they did show up. Maybe that's progress.

- We got there early and noted the huge, criss-crossing network of fences set up by Boston Police around the bandstand and the common. I was at the May 13th “Free Speech Rally,” and that was far less controlled: just a line of police on the road between the bandstand and the Soldiers and Sailors Monument. This time, the BPD created a huge no man’s land around the bandstand, with a protected corridor leading to it. The bigots were essentially caged in for their own protection. The May 13th Free Speech rally had perhaps 150 attendees, who actually outnumbered the counter-protesters, who were at that time mostly Antifa. (Here's one of the "peaceful" alt-right ralliers I videotaped from that go-round).This version appeared vastly more poorly attended by the "free speech" side. I’ve heard the total turn-out for the “free speech” side was a whopping 48 people. You’ve likely seen the photographs of the dismal turnout for the “alt-right” side. As a friend : “How do you fill up a bandstand? Boston didn’t find out today.”

- The counter-protest grew and grew from 10:00 AM onwards, and had pretty much devolved into a large, rowdy summer block party by 11:00 AM. A huge swath of Boston humanity was represented, from some weird shirtless white guy doing one-handed pushups and growling FIGHT ME in the general direction of the Nazis to glittery pink drag queens to bandanna-wearing Antifa to a large and very discordant array of musical instruments and speakers blasting mid-2000s pop-punk music (for some reason). The Nazis served as hard-to-see entertainment - not that we could hear them, and I’m pretty sure they couldn’t hear us, beyond a distant, threatening roar. Perhaps this emboldened them. As an unnamed Boston police source said to the New York Daily News: “To tell you the truth, I think they were too stupid to be scared.”

- There were some skirmishes when a very small number of foolhardy MAGA’s and Trump supporters wandered the crowd attempting to rile people up, but rally marshals and Black Lives Matter did a good job of crowd control. I saw one skinhead looking guy on the ground after apparently being punched, while a counter-protesting black woman defended him and told other people not to attack anyone. People who were angling for a fight didn’t get one, although there was a lot shouting and anger at the white supremacists.

- I found myself running with my phone with a large group of people who were following a group of alt-righters (one wrapped in a Gadsen flag) who were being escorted out of the park on the road between the hill and the bandstand by police. People followed after them shouting “SHAME,” and eventually everyone broke into a run as we neared the edge of the park and the road, including the police. The police eventually hustled one of the alt-righters, who was wrapped in an American flag, into a paddy wagon - presumably for his own protection. Police were in riot gear with billy clubs and batons, despite Marty Walsh claiming Boston police don't use riot gear (or something along those lines). The police presence was huge and intimidating, and definitely had a very different vibe than the Women's March or the earlier "Free Speech Rally."

- The alt-righters/Nazis/what-have-you all left after only 40 (I think, I'm not great at estimating time) minutes, roughly at the same time as the wave of thousands of protesters from Roxbury showed up at the Commons. They did not walk out of the park: they apparently were loaded into paddy-wagons. A huge group of people waited at the exit where they’d be coming out at Tremont Street, chanting “Make them walk!” I saw and shot video of a black man getting knocked over and arrested - I overhead that he’d pushed a cop from people who saw what happened, but I didn’t witness this myself.

- After the alt-righters had scurried off (metaphorically) and we had had a few drinks with friends, we were walking back to the T when I saw a large group of police on Temple Street. The police were wearing full riot gear, as they had before when the alt-righters were extracted from the park, but this time, they had gas masks on. People were understandably growing nervous about this, afraid that Temple street would be kettled and that we'd all get tear-gassed. We eventually walked down Temple Street, where we saw a group of mostly non-white protesters, a line of police with billy clubs, and BPD Superintendent in Chief William Gross, who was hanging behind the line of cops. I spoke with and photographed a kid who’d been pepper-sprayed earlier by police in the initial clash, as had a number of other people - there was a lot of spilled milk lining the street, which people had brought with them expecting something like this to happen. I believe some people had been arrested before we made it there. People were shouting at the police: “It’s your job to protect us!” and “These are our streets!”

Gross eventually came forward and started talking to the crowd about how he understood how we were feeling and "just wanted everything to stay calm." He was complimentary: “You should be proud of yourselves, you all did this the right way.” He described how Martin Luther King spoke at the same bandstand back in the 1960s. “I’m sorry, I didn’t bring enough doughnuts for everyone,” he joked. One woman who’d previously been shouting at the police ended up hugging him. He was still glad-handing when we left, about 30 minutes later. Well, I guess the man has charisma.
posted by faineg at 9:11 PM on August 19, 2017 [85 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted. I'm a little unclear on exactly what argument is happening here, but we can probably have it without blanket statements that all lefties are "wussies," and probably with slightly more clear explication of points, if there are points to be made here, rather than glancing allusions.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:13 PM on August 19, 2017 [9 favorites]


Were there houseplants at this Gazebo Of Racists?
posted by halifix at 9:16 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Counter-protesters in Boston turned out in overwhelming numbers, and apparently the smattering of Nazis who planned to speak left without any speeches given.

I am so happy and relieved that Boston went so well! Just delighted. Seeing those images of the huge crowds surrounding that ridiculous gazebo of Nazis made my day.
posted by rue72 at 9:18 PM on August 19, 2017 [7 favorites]


I shoot the gazebo with my crossbow.

Regular or Game of Thrones style crossbow?
posted by Artw at 9:18 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I used to be a gazebo like you, then I took an arrow in the knee steps.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:20 PM on August 19, 2017 [18 favorites]


The ravenous gazebo full of racists has made my evening.
posted by faineg at 9:24 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thank you for going out there faineg. Seeing peaceful, organized resistance in such great numbers and on such short notice really gives me hope.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:27 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not certain whence came the pic of an idiot "confederate" getting the finger, but a few tweeters did a Ken Burns with it.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:29 PM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


Right now I'm imagining future counter-protests, where people drown out white supremacist rallies by standing grimly and chanting "SHAME", led by the GoT shame nun.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:30 PM on August 19, 2017 [2 favorites]


Now "gazebo full of racists" is the alt-right's "binders full of women".
posted by Autumnheart at 9:32 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


The deep cut is Eric and the Dread Gazebo.
posted by Freon at 9:36 PM on August 19, 2017 [14 favorites]


The gazebo reference.
posted by Candleman at 9:37 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


The gazebo references are also referencing an old D&D tale about a player who'd never heard of a gazebo before, so when the DM describes the characters as being near a gazebo, the player assumes its a monster and tries to attack it. Eventually DM gets annoyed at the dudes thickness and kills the player character with the now rabid gazebo.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:38 PM on August 19, 2017 [45 favorites]


I was personally worried that the houseplants of the Gazebo Of Racists may have been forcefully watered with Nazi tears
posted by halifix at 9:41 PM on August 19, 2017 [1 favorite]


Northern Lite: I'm not certain whence came the pic of an idiot "confederate" getting the finger, but a few tweeters did a Ken Burns with it.

It was a picture taken Tuesday or Wednesday in Charlottesville in front of the Lee Statue. The guy was a confederate-loving dude who took pains to let the media know he was a Confederate-Flag-Lover, but he was not a Nazi or a White Supremacist (he seemed to think that nuance would be respected, remembered, and believed), and he came to register his support for keeping the statue of a great hero. I think he was from North Carolina. He was treated to a stream of folks in groupings of 1, 2, or 3 who came to remonstrate with him, invite him to leave, curse at him, scream, reject his ideology, point out that he couldn't divorce himself from the Nazis, and treat him to a symphony of birds and double birds while he tried to play sentry and not react to the onslaught. I think he lasted at least 90 minutes.
posted by julen at 9:42 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


Charlottesville organizers ask you to take these 8 actions (Solidarity C'Ville, Medium)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:01 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hanging out in gazebos and waving tiki torches - the nazis hold the worst garden parties.
posted by dazed_one at 10:01 PM on August 19, 2017 [15 favorites]


One MAGA-hat wearer was arrested on gun charges on Boylston Street after getting into an argument with a counter protester. He also had a bulletproof vest on.
posted by adamg at 10:03 PM on August 19, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hahaha fake D&D there's no such thing as a Neutral Paladin

Now there is.
posted by Jalliah at 10:03 PM on August 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hahaha fake D&D there's no such thing as a Neutral Paladin

Google "paramander."

In D&D it's ALWAYS A THING. It doesn't matter what "it" is. It's a thing.
posted by mightygodking at 10:06 PM on August 19, 2017 [28 favorites]



I've been breaking down in fits of giggles for the past hour. I'm actually working on a D&D one- shot that has a gazebo in it. It is a take on that classic story. Now I'm imagining how I could put racists in the gazebo and have it make narrative sense. I'll figure out a way because waiting to see if my players pick up on not one but two cultural references would be amusing.
posted by Jalliah at 10:09 PM on August 19, 2017 [10 favorites]


mightygodking: "Google "paramander."

In D&D it's ALWAYS A THING. It doesn't matter what "it" is. It's a thing.
"

Or the multiple other alignment paladins introduced way back in Dragon #106 (Feb '86).
posted by Chrysostom at 10:15 PM on August 19, 2017 [6 favorites]


gazebo of racists

A failure of racists.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:24 PM on August 19, 2017 [15 favorites]


Ayoub Kara, which goes well beyond trying not to ruffle feathers because a no-criticism policy is safer for Israel:

That statement isn't just 'no criticism', it's beautifully engineered. It's designed to stroke every bit of Trump's ego.

He reads that, it'll justify everything he thinks about lugenpresse, etc.

Credit where due, their foreign policy in this is phenomenal.
posted by mikelieman at 10:31 PM on August 19, 2017


A cowarding of Nazis is what I saw on Twitter earlier

Also how fireproof are gazebos from tiki oil spills?
posted by mrzarquon at 10:32 PM on August 19, 2017 [3 favorites]


Take note of silence from your conservative friends on social media.
If they had an opinion about Ferguson
If they had an opinion about freeway protests
If they had an opinion about Kaepernick
If they had an opinion about the marches the day after the inauguration
But they've been oddly silent since Charlottesville
Then you know where they stand. And it's nowhere good.


I have had my faith in distant friends pleasantly reaffirmed, actually. One, in particular, who I know canvassed for Romney in 2012 ( posted about the need to respect the president who had been elected no matter how personally disappointed she was by the result). She'd not said anything about politics on Facebook in this election season or since. What I know about her integrity led me to believe that she couldn't possibly be a Trump supporter, but I did not know whether she was a loyal enough Republican to have voted for him anyway. I was too afraid to ask in private where she stood. After Charlottesville, she posted. Firmly against the march. In some detail about her own family history, with regard to the civil war and slavery. It was a great relief not to go through the personal disillusionment that I've seen so many experience these past two years.
posted by bardophile at 11:28 PM on August 19, 2017 [9 favorites]


First as tragedy, then as LARP.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:43 PM on August 19, 2017


That song from the Vancouver counter-protest is actually kind of catchy... I'd love to know what it is.

Yowser, I think it's Carnival Band.

Here is YouTube of them at the rally.

It is, indeed, catchy.
posted by chapps at 12:08 AM on August 20, 2017


Worst rap since Blondie, sadly.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:26 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Boston Police had a pretty large perimeter around the bandstand where they were.

You know, I know people (not you) are giving them shit for this, but it's kind of the police's job to stop violence. I think it was the smart move to keep them separate, to make it easier to prevent any altercations, especially after Charlottesville.
posted by corb at 12:29 AM on August 20, 2017 [26 favorites]


Hey rhizome, there are a lot of very progressive folks in the LDS community! The Mormons I know are universally smart, caring, and would completely fit in with the anti-racist, feminist, LGBT pride, disability rights march of your choice. Not the majority, not yet, but times are a-changing all over the place.
If they're still giving 10% of their income to the church, i don't give a shit what they do in their personal lives -- they aren't progressive. They're complicit in evil generally and white supremacy specifically.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:09 AM on August 20, 2017 [17 favorites]


I don't know if we are still doing birthday wishes, but mine is a week from today and I'll be off camping all week. My birthday wish is that Trump resigns and then Mueller ends up building a case strong enough that he and all his cronies spend the rest of their days in prison. It's a big ask, but why not? Weirder things have been happening.
posted by gofargogo at 1:57 AM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


Homo neanderthalensis: "The gazebo references are also referencing an old D&D tale about a player who'd never heard of a gazebo before, so when the DM describes the characters as being near a gazebo, the player assumes its a monster and tries to attack it. Eventually DM gets annoyed at the dudes thickness and kills the player character with the now rabid gazebo."

Considering that in AD&D you can get eaten by statues, armour, furniture, walls, floors, ceilings, bridges, stalactites, stalagmites, rocks, water, mushrooms, sand, flowers, tumbleweed, trees, tree stumps, coins, and swords; the guy who insisted on attacking the gazebo might actually have been the only sane person in the room.
posted by Mitheral at 2:26 AM on August 20, 2017 [44 favorites]


In England, “gazeboed” is in moderately common usage as a synonym for “very drunk”. (It originated, apparently, in a comedy routine where the comedian made the case that any noun in (British) English could be turned into an adjective for extreme inebriation, and asked the audience for one, getting “gazebo” and replying with something like “I got thoroughly gazeboed last night”)
posted by acb at 3:24 AM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


EmpressCallipygos, nothing that cool will happen for at least 4 years. The most we can hope for is Ted Nugent performing "Der Ring Des Niebelung"
posted by ambulocetus at 3:45 AM on August 20, 2017


So the DNC fundraising is in the toilet for July, scoring a record low in fundraising for the period in 10 years. It's previously set record low fundraising in April, May, and June. Progressives in the donor class aren't responding to Tom Perez because he isn't Ellison and the centrist donors aren't responding to Tom Perez because he's too progressive. Meanwhile, the Dems spent a metric fuckton of money on loser races that had no chance of succeeding as a signal of resistance. The DNC is in debt while the RNC carries a surplus.

This is disastrous.
posted by xyzzy at 4:39 AM on August 20, 2017 [43 favorites]


We need Ellison and Dean to take the reins, and quick. Obama needed to do a better job as the face of the party, too.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:42 AM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


....The DNC has been trying to do fundraising?

I'm a registered Democrat and I haven't heard a THING about that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:43 AM on August 20, 2017 [34 favorites]


I suspect it has a lot to do with some high profile races earlier in the year. Five of them in the three months prior to July. That may have soaked up a lot of donor cash prior to July.

Also, many of the progressives I know are simply shifting to donate directly to specific campaigns (or through aggregators like ActBlue), so the donations are happening, but they're just not using DNC as the middleman/broker for their donations.

Of course, the reason for doing this is because of dissatisfaction with the DNC, but that's been growing for years.

It's week 30 of 208 of the Trumpocalypse. Trump continues to damage himself and the Republican brand. We're still here and more energized than ever.

Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Assuming we don't all die, that is.
posted by darkstar at 4:54 AM on August 20, 2017 [25 favorites]


They also got a free ride in city vehicles.

The last ride I got in a city vehicle cost me $800 for a .2 mile ride to a hospital and that was without security and they left my stuff like my bicycle and messenger bag behind.
posted by srboisvert at 5:30 AM on August 20, 2017 [7 favorites]


gazebo of racists

We should put a brass plaque on it and declare it a neo-conderate memorial.
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


My meeting with Donald Trump: A damaged, pathetic personality — whose obvious impairment has only gotten worse
In campaigns, we candidates do most of the talking; because we like to, and because people ask us lots of questions. Not this time. Not by a long shot.

Trump talked very rapidly and virtually nonstop for nearly an hour; not of my campaign or even of politics, but only of himself, and almost always in the third person. He’d given himself a nickname: “the Trumpster,” as in “everybody wants to know what the Trumpster’s gonna do,” a claim he made more than once.

He mostly told stories. Some were about his business deals; others about trips he’d taken or things he owned. All were unrelated to the alleged point of our meeting, and to one another. That he seldom even attempted segues made each tale seem more disconnected from reality than the last. It was funny at first, then pathetic, and finally deeply unsettling.

On the drive home, we all burst out laughing, then grew quiet. What the hell just happened? My first theory, that Trump was high on cocaine, didn’t feel quite right, but he was clearly emotionally impaired: in constant need of approbation; lacking impulse control, self-awareness or awareness of others. We’d heard tales of his monumental vanity, but were still shocked by the sad spectacle of him.
At this point, I think most people don't care wether Trump is demented or he was always this way, but this article is a strong argument for the latter. There are some very nice observations in there.
posted by mumimor at 5:40 AM on August 20, 2017 [54 favorites]


What if he has a gland in his brain that secretes cocaine?
posted by acb at 5:43 AM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


@qwrrty
Y'all should hear about my experience with BLM at the Boston Anti-Nazi Rally. 1/
- First, BPD did an outstanding job of managing conflicts. 2/
- Police escorted Nazis to and from the rally. Did not prevent interactions but stood close by to prevent rioting. 3/
- BLM also escorted Nazis. Surrounded them to prevent fights. 4/
- I want that to be crystal clear. BLM marshals were *preventing* fights from breaking out. 5/
- BLM organizers have said over and over again: if a rally turns violent, POC will be targeted. Don't start none. 6/
- At one point they were escorting a Nazi out of the rally near where I was standing. 7/
- Nazi dropped his flag. I snatched for it. He picked it up. I yanked at it. 8/
- The BLM marshal next to me whupped the back of my head. "DON'T!" 9/
- At that moment he stopped me from possibly sparking a riot. 10/
- I was stupid. I was ready to escalate. BLM *stopped* me. 11/
- This is no surprise to anyone who has actually been to a BLM event or worked with them. 12/
- But the "BLM are terrorists" narrative persists. 13/
- I want everyone to understand just how bullshit this narrative is. 14/
- BLM is not starting riots. They're stopping them. 15/15
posted by chris24 at 5:53 AM on August 20, 2017 [167 favorites]


Looks like the "apocalyptic" poll numbers are out (NBC/Marist). The key ones are, as I suspected, looking at 2018:

Preference for a Dem / Rep controlled Congress:
Michigan 48 D / 35 R
Wisconsin 46 D / 38 R
Pennsylvania 47 D / 37 R
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 AM on August 20, 2017 [19 favorites]


And one of the BLM escorts:

@steveannear (Boston Globe)
This is Imani, from CT. She just escorted Trump supporters through a crowd as a situation escalated. Here's why in her words: [PIC] [STATEMENT]
"I know people are heated but I think its better to have them on that side of the fence." She said of why she guided several Trump supporters through a swelling crowd where they were getting yelled at and in one case spit on.

"It's the right thing to do at the end of the day. We're all part of the same country. It's unfortunate what's happening but the response we should have is to be nonviolent. You know I don't believe in this right wing narrative of alt left and how we are crazed and looking to get violent. What better way to show that they are wrong?" (Than helping them through the crowd)

"I couldn't get through a KKK rally with the same treatment. But we shouldn't be like them."
posted by chris24 at 6:13 AM on August 20, 2017 [60 favorites]


Preference for a Dem / Rep controlled Congress:
Michigan 48 D / 35 R


Have fun with that Senate campaign, Kid Rock.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:15 AM on August 20, 2017 [15 favorites]


the reason for doing this is because of dissatisfaction with the DNC

Given the results of political parties at the moment - perhaps that model is dead? The Republicans sure have the smell of death about them.

But money-is-speech....so how's the money gonna flow if not via a party?
posted by rough ashlar at 6:18 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


You realize, of course, this . . . means cake.

A gazebo cake with fondant nazis messily devoured in a spirit of peaceful cooperation.

I'd like the links here by Friday, and hey - let's have fun out there.
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


We should put a brass plaque on it and declare it a neo-conderate memorial.

Don't even think it. That Boston Common bandstand has a lot of good history to it. Like the time Martin Luther King spoke from it (after a march from Roxbury).
posted by adamg at 6:50 AM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


Looks like the "apocalyptic" poll numbers are out (NBC/Marist).

MI: 36% approve - 55% disapprove
PA: 35% approve - 54% disapprove
WI: 34% approve - 56% disapprove

MI: 64% embarrassed - 28% proud
PA: 63% embarrassed - 25% proud
WI: 64% embarrassed - 25% proud

The proud numbers are basically at the crazification factor.
posted by chris24 at 7:07 AM on August 20, 2017 [35 favorites]


Looks like the "apocalyptic" poll numbers are out (NBC/Marist).

@yashar (MoJo) Retweeted Mark Murray
For those of you who have been wondering what will get Republicans to speak out against Trump it's numbers like this
@mmurraypolitics: Congressional preference in the new NBC/Marist polls:
MI: D+13 among reg voters
PA: D+10
WI: D+8
(Aug 13-17, MOE +/- 3.5%)
posted by chris24 at 7:12 AM on August 20, 2017 [15 favorites]


Either you count 9/11 or you change the start date to 2002 & explain why.

Again, the point of the report is to assess the threat SINCE 9/11. Take it up with the GAO if you have a problem with that, but I can't really can't understand why you would. No one has forgotten 9/11.


the obvious reason to study "since 9/11" is to analyze policy changes that happened after 9/11. it would be better to put 9/11 in a study with the polices running at the time, which were developed since, fopr example, the airplane hijackings in the 70's, or what have you, other cold war era policies, because that's the context in which 9/11 was allowed to happen.
posted by eustatic at 7:16 AM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


I mean yay, that's good. But also I'm sort of like...huh. So 25-30% of the country are straight up Nazis, and another 10-15% are Nazi-curious.

We will beat them. We have to beat them. But sweet Jesus, what are we going to do about all these Nazis?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:19 AM on August 20, 2017 [66 favorites]


Axios: Why top White House officials won't quit Trump
We talked to a half dozen senior administration officials, who range from dismayed but certain to stay, to disgusted and likely soon to leave. They all work closely with Trump and his senior team so, of course, wouldn't talk on the record. Instead, they agreed to let us distill their thinking/rationale:

"You have no idea how much crazy stuff we kill": The most common response centers on the urgent importance of having smart, sane people around Trump to fight his worst impulses. If they weren't there, they say, we would have a trade war with China, massive deportations, and a government shutdown to force construction of a Southern wall.

"General Mattis needs us": Many talk about their reluctance to bolt on their friends and colleagues who are fighting the good fight to force better Trump behavior/decisions. They rightly point out that together, they have learned how to ignore Trump's rhetoric and, at times, collectively steer him to more conventional policy responses.

"Trump's not as evil as portrayed": All of them talk up the president as more reasonable off Twitter and TV than on it. This gives them hope (though almost all increasingly say it's fleeting hope) he will listen to his better angels, or at least the pleas of Ivanka.

"We like the power": Well, no one comes out and say it this blatantly. But working in the White House, even this one, is intoxicating and ego-stroking. They have enormous say over regulations and rules, invites and implementation, government jobs and access to the Oval. They also know they are one step away from an even bigger job in government, so it's hard to just walk away.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on August 20, 2017 [23 favorites]


"You have no idea how much crazy stuff we kill" and "General Mattis needs us" = I either don't like being a bad person or at least want to avoid the appearance of being one
"Trump's not as evil as portrayed" and "We like the power" = I like being a bad person
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:26 AM on August 20, 2017 [28 favorites]


99.9% of Congress was *crickets* or vague "Nazi bad" for the past week. Then the shitty 2018 poll numbers come out, and they're gonna be like, "Oh, NOW we mind that Trump is a white power cheerleader"? "Having given it much contemplation during the entire August recess, I have finally come to the conclusion that this is outrageous"? You kinda missed your moment, assholes.

I'm a pretty cynical person, but the fact that anybody anywhere would need to do political calculus to figure out how to respond to a President doing PR for Nazis makes me want to vomit. Doesn't matter, though, because most people won't care or remember. When it comes down to it, those who vote Republican will persuade themselves to vote Republican no matter what Republicans do.

Plus I just don't believe the GOP Congress is going to turn on Trump, numbers notwithstanding. The crazification factor base may be small, but it includes all their damn donors. Therein lies their problem.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:29 AM on August 20, 2017 [58 favorites]


I fear for the sole of the nation.

all the marching takes a toll
posted by entropicamericana at 7:52 AM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


We should put a brass plaque on it and declare it a neo-conderate memorial.

Don't even think it. That Boston Common bandstand has a lot of good history to it. Like the time Martin Luther King spoke from it (after a march from Roxbury).


I meant it as a commemoration of their crushing defeat & retreat in this particular battle of Civil War II. Something like The Skedaddle of Boston Common.
posted by srboisvert at 7:53 AM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


LA Times Editorial Board.

Enough is Enough
These are not normal times. The man in the White House is reckless and unmanageable, a danger to the Constitution, a threat to our democratic institutions.

Last week some of his worst qualities were on display: his moral vacuity and his disregard for the truth, as well as his stubborn resistance to sensible advice. As ever, he lashed out at imaginary enemies and scapegoated others for his own failings. Most important, his reluctance to offer a simple and decisive condemnation of racism and Nazism astounded and appalled observers around the world.

With such a glaring failure of moral leadership at the top, it is desperately important that others stand up and speak out to defend American principles and values. This is no time for neutrality, equivocation or silence. Leaders across America — and especially those in the president’s own party — must summon their reserves of political courage to challenge President Trump publicly, loudly and unambiguously.
posted by chris24 at 7:56 AM on August 20, 2017 [52 favorites]


Yeah, they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes
Where the rabbit couldn't go
They ran so fast
That the hounds couldn't catch 'em
On down the red states to Mar-a-Lago
posted by kirkaracha at 7:58 AM on August 20, 2017 [49 favorites]


zachlipton: "Trump's new Twitter banner photo is horrendous. I mean, this is a picture they looked at and said "yes, I am pleased with this and think we should show it to the world?" It's like they're all making Pence's "outlaw the X-Men" face."

Just catching up but I'm just so astounded at how bad the photography is with this administration. I mean that just a terrible picture from at least a dozen different criteria. The version you posted is a little cropped, here's the full version where you can see how badly composed and lit it is. Why are they in some low ceilinged bunker with that weird 30% roofline on the right that forces the flags to be all clumped over to the left. Who left conference phone half there in the foreground? Didn't they have a flash setup? There's no light on anyone's face. Those ugly light fixture totally pull your eye away from the people and make you notice that they're not quite centered over Trump. And who posed this? The people on the left are all turned into the center with their right shoulders toward the front so that they fit in better but the guys on the right are all facing more forward which forced the third guy on the right to be behind everyone else. If you look at the ceiling next to that ugly inset light, it's been repainted with mis-matching paint; ten minutes with photoshop could have cleaned that up along with removing the phone, the smoke detector and brightening up the faces a bit. Ugh.

Compare with a shot of Obama's cabinet which is just so open and airy and simultaniously relaxed but meticulously composed. Sorry, I know that this is trivial compared with every other horror coming from this administration but it's just so encapsulates their lazy half-assed approach to everything.
posted by octothorpe at 8:13 AM on August 20, 2017 [112 favorites]


yeah that Salon piece on how Trump is a wrong guy and crazy-go-nuts as well, it's all fine and obvious except

The infantilization of the American male is a phenomenon we have been slow to recognize


who the fuck is "we," Bill Curry?
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:14 AM on August 20, 2017 [33 favorites]


The road to hate (SLWaPo).

There's a lot in this article, but on a second read it a lot of it seems like noise covering the one basic truth we're all crushingly familiar with already: young white men become enraged when their inflated sense of entitlement clashes with reality.

Most of these guys seem already isolated, in at least two cases because of violent criminal records, all of them alienated and purposeless. And now they've found a purpose.

Is there anything more toxic to civil society than the entitlement of disappointed white men?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:18 AM on August 20, 2017 [46 favorites]


The Battle of the Bandshell

We shouted "White Pride!" and the Liberals kept on comin'
Thirty thousand more there was a while ago.
We shouted "Hail Trump!" and they began to runnin'
down the Boston Common to the Nazi Gazebo

posted by spitbull at 8:20 AM on August 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


Compare with a shot of Obama's cabinet

"Hi, we're your government, is there something you want to talk about?"

"Trump's new Twitter banner photo

"What the hell do you want? Go away."
posted by pyramid termite at 8:23 AM on August 20, 2017 [33 favorites]


In 2017 we took a little hate
along with lots of Nazis down the interstate
We took our MAGA hats but we couldn't take our guns
So the liberals kicked our asses and now we're on the run

posted by spitbull at 8:28 AM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


Private dick's Drumpf opposition research looking for bombshells (Via politico)
posted by growabrain at 8:52 AM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


I meant it as a commemoration of their crushing defeat & retreat in this particular battle of Civil War II. Something like The Skedaddle of Boston Common
Our neighbors, my wife, and I have taken to calling yesterday the Special Traveling Exhibit of the Troll Zoo.
posted by bl1nk at 9:01 AM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


From that RAGEPATH link:

How do I get out of this alternate reality and return to the real world where "President Trump" was just a harmless joke?
If you want to pierce the veil of the multiverse, you're going to need some mad skills in advanced mathematics and a deep understanding of physics. Let us know if you figure it out. Though do remember, if you discover an escape route out of this nightmare, you will introduce a host of new problems. Countless realities where Hillary Clinton is serving as President (and presumably warding off Republican impeachment efforts) will be swamped and destabilized by waves of transdimensional refugees fleeing the Trump regime. You might be more helpful working to mitigate the damage facing this reality.

posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 AM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


It always felt like to me that trump was as racist as the last person he talked to, which causes this kind of dissonance between articles/interviews/perspectives.

Democratic nominee for governor in Connecticut? Yes, melanin doesn't impact your humanity, I totally agree.

Bannon purveyor of death and racist Keebler elf? Nazis have some solid points.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 9:03 AM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


If they weren't there, they say, we would have a trade war with China, massive deportations, and a government shutdown to force construction of a Southern wall.

Well, 1/3 is good in baseball.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:05 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


How do I get out of this alternate reality and return to the real world where "President Trump" was just a harmless joke?

That world never existed either. Candidate trump was dangerous and while many people laughed it was never a joke. Not to me and not to hundreds of thousands, if not millionions of Americans. I was terrified from the moment he announced, as we're many others. Additionally, millions of Americans longed for a trump presidency.

That anyone treated him as a joke boggles my mind and also explains how we got here. Especially given how much he hates to be laughed at. It was like gasoline for his garbage fire.
posted by bilabial at 9:11 AM on August 20, 2017 [37 favorites]


Didn't they have a flash setup? There's no light on anyone's face.

Looks like bad on-camera flash, check out the glare on the light fixture and the shadow behind it.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:13 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


octothorpe: There's no light on anyone's face.

And neither is there any happiness to be there, or even the general will to live.

(And Donald looks old. Like, 90, frail, in a nursing home and wearing a bad wig old.)
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:18 AM on August 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


Private dick's Drumpf opposition research looking for bombshells (Via politico)
The subreddit wiki mentioned in that article is something I've considered linking at MeFi before. I initially dismissed this person as a crackpot because their focus was on verifying the Steele Dossier, which seems fairly impossible to do as an average citizen with presumably no intel connections. Now they're more focused on documenting as many Trump-Russia connections as possible using sources for each entry. It's a bit daunting to look at and I can't imagine being patient enough to construct it.
posted by xyzzy at 9:23 AM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


It can't be as simple as white male entitlement solely fueling the rise of Trump as white women in the last election also broke for Trump. Unless like me, you don't trust the election results. Most of the real life Trump supporters I've met that are women seem to have a lot of self loathing but that's a shallow observation that might be a projection of my own biases. But it's not only entitled white men who have and continue to support Trump and the new radical conservatism, and examining and arriving at a more complete understanding of what motivates the support of those who don't fit the stereotype needs more emphasis in forming a successful opposition strategy than it gets, in my opinion.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:31 AM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


The presidency usually takes a year or two to age someone as dramatically as he's aged in eight months.

I want to go further back than his early candidacy. I want to go back to when his name was used in the context of trying to vaguely recall which Home Alone movie he was in. But we're here.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:33 AM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


....The DNC has been trying to do fundraising?

I'm a registered Democrat and I haven't heard a THING about that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 PM on August 20 [16 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


I heard a lot about it.

From you. Here. Just now.
posted by saysthis at 9:47 AM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


"I couldn't get through a KKK rally with the same treatment. But we shouldn't be like them."

I'm so glad that the "punch nazis" rhetoric is losing currency.
posted by Coventry at 9:48 AM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


It can't be as simple as white male entitlement solely fueling the rise of Trump as white women in the last election also broke for Trump.

Literally nothing is simple about any of this, but it is not middle aged white women who are pushing the Overton window into Nazi territory. Or if it is, I haven't seen any reported evidence of this; in fact I've only seen the opposite: that the radicalized far right base is demographically the same as Isis's base, pissed off young men. That doesn't mean no women ever, but given the way that misogyny, patriarchy, and heterosexual relationship norms intersect in this fucking hellmouth of a timeline, the story of middle aged white women's support for this fuckery is going to be different than the story of the support (and radicalization) of young white men.

If you can find evidence of white women radicalizing and organizing around this shit in the same numbers as white men, go ahead and cite it. (No, seriously, I want to see anything like this, because I want to figure out what the fuck to do about white women, and I want to know how misogyny and racism interact there.) But I think it's unlikely, given that these radicalized white supremacist/Nazi communities seem to have been fed directly from the MRA-Red Pill gateway bigot communities.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:54 AM on August 20, 2017 [29 favorites]


If they weren't there, they say, we would have... a government shutdown to force construction of a Southern wall.

I know this doesn't have to make sense, but... how is a government shutdown likely to force construction of the wall?
posted by Coventry at 9:55 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


For a spot of humor, last night's Lovett or Leave It podcast has a great, funny discussion of the Bannon outage and C-ville events. Guest panel was Larry Wilmore, Gaby Dunn, and Langston Kerman (from Insecure).
posted by freecellwizard at 9:55 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know this doesn't have to make sense, but... how is a government shutdown likely to force construction of the wall?

"Unless the budget includes funding for the wall, I will refuse to sign it."
posted by Candleman at 10:08 AM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


The road to hate (SLWaPo).

There's a lot in this article, but on a second read it a lot of it seems like noise covering the one basic truth we're all crushingly familiar with already: young white men become enraged when their inflated sense of entitlement clashes with reality.

Most of these guys seem already isolated, in at least two cases because of violent criminal records, all of them alienated and purposeless. And now they've found a purpose.

Is there anything more toxic to civil society than the entitlement of disappointed white men?
posted by schadenfrau at 12:18 AM on August 21 [19 favorites +] [!]


And if I may, folks, I'm a pissed off young man. I'm pissed. Oh and I'm white. And I was told my whole life things wouldn't suck. I was told Hillary would win.

I read the article, and yep. I would have ironically commented my way through the next 4 years if not for the fact that Those People are taking What's Mine. I used to like South Park, as recently as 10 months ago. I also used to think it was actually kind of funny (not appropriate but not like evil to joke about) to say feminazis are what's ruining America.

I want revenge forever and someone is paying for this and that someone is my Navy uncle who used to dominate the family emails with Republican stuff. No motherfucker, now I'm your racist uncle, and I'm liberal as all hell, and not racist or your uncle, and I know the email address of every one of the three kids dude got in high school, and all his other kids, and this post times a thousand in my safe space. It's Vox and Alexandra Petri o'clock for your children, actual racist uncle, and I'm the family member who quit the army before Iraq 2.0, unlike their actual father.

Young white male privilege is a privilege every human in America, and moreso on earth, should be able to enjoy. Decry it, but also, respect the promise of it. Things shouldn't suck, and yet they do, and fuck that.
posted by saysthis at 10:17 AM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


It can't be as simple as white male entitlement solely fueling the rise of Trump

It's not; it's white racial anxiety over the USA's changing demographics. Here's a politician saying the things they think! He's going to build a wall on the Mexican border! He's going to get tough on the (mostly imaginary) "epidemic of crime" in "inner cities"!

I saw an interesting study on the issue of ethnic anxiety; psychologists did some fieldwork, got people to give their opinions on immigration, and such, and then had paid Latinx volunteers ride the same train the study subjects did for their commute to work, every day for a month...and then they interviewed the subjects again with the same questions. The finding? Exposure to just two additional Latinx/Hispanic people in the course of their day made people stastistically significantly more likely to endorse a harder line on immigration policy and more likely to vote Republican. (And this was in Massachusetts, if I remember correctly; sorry I don't have a link, but it's something I read a few days ago.)
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:20 AM on August 20, 2017 [26 favorites]


Literally nothing is simple about any of this, but it is not middle aged white women who are pushing the Overton window into Nazi territory. Or if it is, I haven't seen any reported evidence of this;

Much as the popular sentiment is to shit on baby boomers and middle-aged people in general as The Worst Generation, Hurry Up and Die Already! and young people as the Woke Hope Of The Future - I don't see this happening.

Lots of snake people are showing up with Nazi and Confederate flags and torches. While there are a lot of racist, older Trump voters in smaller towns and rural areas, the beating heart of the new Nazi movement seems to be young, white men. And yes, there are women alt-righters, but they are doing the whole "kitchen and children and stand by your man" thing, acting as support, because that is where nature intends them to be.

Women neo-Nazis are not nearly as numerous as the men - but the ones who are skew young. The Rise of the Valkyries (Seyward Darby, Harper's: may be paywalled). The article profiles one woman in particular, Ayla Stewart (who just had to be named for one of my favorite characters in one of my favorite series, dammit) - a pretty, young, white mother of a large family.

And there's the key. Women who are white, young, slender, conventionally attractive, and either married mothers or who aspire to be - those are the only women permitted in the neo-Nazi movement. Older, fatter, childless, and/or not white women can GTFO.

I think a lot of women become radicalized as they get older and don't get the crumbs of approval from the patriarchy that they used to. That is one reason why you see so many middle-aged and older women forming the backbone of the new resistance.

Of course the new Nazis are mostly men because, as has been pointed out, the MRA/Red Pill/GamerGate/etc. movement has served as a gateway. There isn't really that kind of gateway for women unless it's being married to or in a relationship with a neo-Nazi (ewwwww).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:21 AM on August 20, 2017 [37 favorites]


Plenty of the disaffected youth - who feel they are drowning in student debt, that they won't ever be able to attain the same basic stuff their parents were able to attain, and that they are inheriting a dying world polluted by generations before them - put their efforts behind liberal and progressive candidates like Sanders and Clinton. The millenial portion of the support behind Trump has everything to do with racism. This is wild conjecture on my part, because I have no evidence for this assertion, but I do think nostalgia for an America That Never Was plays a big part in this.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:22 AM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


The infantilization of the American male is a phenomenon we have been slow to recognize

This implies that the American male has been infantilized. The whole paragraph talks about "narrowing economic horizons" and gives a general sense that men are infantilized because they have fewer opportunities than they did in the past. But...they don't. The rise of the tech sector is as exclusive and congratulatory to men as manufacturing ever was. They're still being paid more than everyone else, still being promoted ahead of everyone else, still handed the lion's share of opportunities and credit as ever.

I just have zero sympathy for the idea that [white] men feel compelled to throw a national tantrum because they're being outperformed by some women and/or POC despite their monumental head start. *Every* single time I see someone whining about the downfall of white men in the US, it is invariably about how some other demographic is focusing on *their* own problems and solutions instead of on white men's. Mention that white men are more than welcome to organize around issues like education or toxic masculinity or domestic violence and you get crickets every time. Instead, they waste everyone's time painting organizations and individuals as selfish for working on themselves, instead of on the poor neglected white man who has no mommy to wipe his ass anymore.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:23 AM on August 20, 2017 [75 favorites]


You're placing the moral burden of condemning Trump on people who didn't elect him but are highly vulnerable to his vindictive response. And you're not even distributing the burden equally: it's the Jewish State that has failed to denounce antisemitism in a way that satisfies you, not (e.g.) Poland or Ukraine or the Baltic states.

So now conflating the government of Israel with the state itself isn't anti-Semitic, it's actually the right thing to do? After all, the link Artw posted specifically referred to Netanyahu and members of his government, which you have lectured us many times on not lumping in with the country as a whole.

In any event, Netanyahu's response was milder than that of some of the most racist American politicians, so you're damn straight that it's unsatisfying. In fact, it's downright dangerous, as in the past he's been perfectly happy jumping in hours after an attack in other countries to condemn the perpetrators of anti-Semitic violence in the strongest terms possible, while clearly making the point that the targets were more than welcome to come to Israel. The difference between his response to incidents elsewhere versus Charlottesville, from the timing all the way down to the most petty shit that he can think of, should be condemned without dragging the rest of the country into the argument as you did. His response, and the fact that at least one of his ministers is specifically saying it's because we should trust someone with demonstrated anti-Semitic sympathies while simultaneously condemning his predecessor who did not, is a giant flashing "fuck you" neon sign to Jewish Americans, and especially the large majority of them that oppose Netanyahu and his policies.

There is one country that has the moral duty of condemning Trump, and it's not Israel.

Again, you're the one making this about Israel the country, while others are talking about Netanyahu and his ministers. And yes, Netanyahu sure as hell has the moral duty of condemning Trump. We know that he would have done it had Obama said the same thing, especially as Kara specifically calls out how "horrible" things were for Israel under Obama.

There are several countries with an historic responsibility for Nazism that might impose a moral duty to condemn its resurgence, but again: not Israel.

And again: no one is demanding that Israel itself do this. It's frustration with the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

You're demanding that Israel take a stronger stand against Trump because of its vulnerability to antisemitism. You want its victims to be a good moral example to the feckless, racist, indolent mob in the USA. Can you not see how wrong this is?

Let's be perfectly clear yet again, if Obama or Clinton or even any Jewish politician to the left of Ted Cruz had done the same thing Trump had, this would . So no, this isn't some sort of wrong-headed tsk-tsking of Israel's duty. It's noting that Netanyahu and members of his cabinet have made it perfectly clear that leftist Jewish Americans, by dint of opposing him and his policies, can go fuck themselves. After all, Netanyahu took a stronger stance discussing anti-Semitism with a fascist thug like Orban than he did with Trump, if only to take Orban's side and join in the bashing of George Soros, which many if not most Jewish Americans consider as having strong overtones of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

Netanyahu is a thin-skinned thug with autocratic tendencies, embroiled in scandals, who comes up with racist and Islamophobic conspiracy theories to promote stuff like voter suppression. He is like Trump in many ways, if not even worse, if only because he seems to be in a safer position politically. So, no I don't think he should be held up as a moral example for anyone. But the fact that his response makes people like Ted fucking Cruz--a man whose attitude towards Israel is informed by embroiling it in a holy war so that Jesus can return and convert Jews at gunpoint en masse--seem bold and comforting to Jewish Americans by comparison, absolutely deserves criticism.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:23 AM on August 20, 2017 [48 favorites]


Yes, white youth might have larger student debt burdens than in the past, but they're not hurting for jobs! Who are hurting for jobs? Black Americans. The African-American unemployment rate is twice that of whites.

I would love to see a new Works Progress Administration program that offered a job to anyone who wants one. The robots may be coming eventually, but they're not here yet, and even with robots, there's enough to do with repairing our infrastructure, teaching our children, caring for our sick, and getting the addicted clean and sober that we potentially have jobs coming out our ears. Here a job, there a job, everywhere a jobby job! We could have a zero unemployment rate if we wanted that!

But until we get a new WPA, whites in general still have the highest incomes and lowest unemployment, and white men still have the lion's share of the high-paying jobs. Goddamn those neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates need to quit their whining.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:30 AM on August 20, 2017 [30 favorites]


Trumps cabinet picture reminds me that I like the current Canadian cabinet picture.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:34 AM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


"There's no light on anyone's face." Everyone is shooting in High Dynamic Range now, and a lot of phone cameras offer panorama or High Dynamic Range as the only shooting options. So the light is averaged across everything, and the photograph is equally lit. That is a simple explanation. It is the source of the horrific landscape photography that is a plague just now, where there is no contrast, everything has the same weight visually, no center of focus.

Someone probably took those pictures with a phone, yup. Or a highly paid professional took those pictures, and they still look just like someone took them with a phone. HDR is fine if you are at a picnic with lots of kids running around, or a Saturday market, to catch everything. Not executive photography, however. If no one is the focus of a photograph, then they all look like flat faced, seething, apparatchiks, planning your demise.
posted by Oyéah at 10:37 AM on August 20, 2017 [19 favorites]


But until we get a new WPA, whites in general still have the highest incomes and lowest unemployment, and white men still have the lion's share of the high-paying jobs. Goddamn those neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates need to quit their whining.

Exactly this. If one lurks where the young Nazis like to hang out online, they're not saying fuck all about the economy. They do, though, go on and on about feminists, Muslims, Black people, and communists. The core of it is they were brought up to believe that the Cis Straight White Male is the default human being, but now that's changing, and so having to share the human narrative with other people throws them into conniptions.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 10:40 AM on August 20, 2017 [59 favorites]


I would love to see a new Works Progress Administration program that offered a job to anyone who wants one.

I really wanted this when Obama came into office in 2009.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:46 AM on August 20, 2017 [16 favorites]


Tiki Torch Nazis, a song by Sandy and Richard Riccardi
posted by growabrain at 10:51 AM on August 20, 2017 [7 favorites]


Another piece here, vis a vis young white alt-right men, is enjoyment. It's fun.

You saw that video of the young blond guy who stripped off his polo shirt the minute the antifa threatened to actually hit him? He said himself that he was just there for fun. They think it's fun. It's fun to believe that others are evil and inferior - as long as they can't really hurt you. The minute that they are actually dangerous, then it's scary and you either throw down or strip off, as it were. Alt-right hate women, Black people, other POC, queer people, Jewish people, the fat and the disabled not because they feel threatened but precisely because they do not. If they were scared, they'd act different.

This is why I'm absolutely for breaking up their communication and financial networks - if they can't amuse themselves fantasizing about violence and they can't support a fantasy lifestyle based on fulminating for money on the internet, a lot of them will drift away.

Also? You know how they'd practiced group tactics for Charlottesville? I'll bet you dollars to donuts that they'd made a lot of their connections and a lot of their tactical decisions based on gaming - those same guys who are super racist and hateful while gaming, I bet that's them, and I bet half their "practice" was, like, WoW.

Honestly, I think that for lots of these guys, it's not that they're losing opportunities or feeling downtrodden - it's that they're spoiled. They're bored. They're coddled everywhere they go, and they never have to understand that others are fully human. That's why they're so fucking gobsmacked when women have opinions, or when an antifa actually hits them - it's like their paper dolls came to life and bit them, and they can't get their heads around it.
posted by Frowner at 10:53 AM on August 20, 2017 [204 favorites]


I am watching how the computer would like to program my grandson. Youtube is a complete menu of every niche fascination ever, people who eat poisonous things, abusive baby sitters, those slow trance talking ladies filing their nails, or combing their hair. There is a whole world of twenty something white guys with seemingly nothing to do but laugh like hyenas and make a giant mess, of every kind. Then we get to the war games, shoot em games, and games in general. I have noticed some games are rigged to be maximally frustrating to him, he becomes enraged, and I tell him if that game pisses you off then don't play it, they are manipulating your basic well being, and sense of self. It is as if you had a horrid experience today, but you are just sitting here, having a snack. There is a whole world of kids, specifically better off kids who can sit in front of a computer with little supervision, and be programmed by whomever.

These mind and soul miners, are a horrible worry for our nation, since they can quietly do massive social work, of whatever kind, or ultimate goal, and it will go unnoticed, unless you sit with the kid and talk through some of it. This is not going to happen, in most cases. I am sure this discussion has been had, but, the alt right is after, the alone boy, whose mom is working, whose parents are working. Teens and young men are targets, for every kind of predator. It didn't get better for them, all that stuff they see in media, it isn't theirs, all the girls, the women, the cars, the trucks, all that stuff is not available yet, but hate is freely available to assuage feelings of fear, isolation, the seeming futility of living.

OK, you come home, your kid has to have this item they have been sold, by the web. OK, but you come home, and your kid hates you for working, your kid hates the neighbors, or your kid has become a stranger, or wants to buy a gun, yeah. It's a worry. They are not spoiled, but they are being programmed for someone's purpose. Any nation state can work on our kids. It has to be a multi-billion dollar effort. Imagine if you could destroy the empathy and basic emotional well being of a nation's children by remote communication? A no-brainer. The alt right works against everything that serves the people of this country, who does that serve, who created that mindset?
posted by Oyéah at 11:02 AM on August 20, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump Is Going to Resign Soon, President's 'Art of the Deal' Writer Predicts:
"Trump's presidency is effectively over. Would be amazed if he survives till end of the year. More likely resigns by fall, if not sooner."
Schwartz warned that they have to keep up the pressure if they want the billionaire to resign. "Trump must be isolated. Resistance every day. The end is near but must keep pressure high," he tweeted.
Brace for President Pence; the activism style will need to change for that. Hope that Mueller has some serious dirt on him, too, or we're going to see Pence in 2020 campaigning, supported by all those who were so happy when things went "back to normal," which is to say, the president stops calling neo-nazis "us" and doesn't tweet about his "enemies."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:10 AM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


The whole paragraph talks about "narrowing economic horizons" and gives a general sense that men are infantilized because they have fewer opportunities than they did in the past. But...they don't.

Has anybody studied the phenomenon of genderedness in helicopter and apron-string parenting?, because I very anecdotally see a major skew toward "mothers (and some fathers) infantilizing menchildren" at the college level these days. And it makes sense because we already know from the emotional labor monster-thread what the gender dynamics of emotional labor look like in American families -- helicopter parenting just amps up those same Women Serve Men and Children patterns.

I mean, I have an otherwise rational univ. faculty colleague whose son did his first year at another university and decided to transfer "back home" to ours. So he's like 19, 20 years old. And she did his entire transfer and class registration and working with an advisor process FOR HIM (not with him) this summer because poor lil Booboo has a full-time summer job. This is not at all unusual in my experience with orientation, program coordination, advising, admin. and makes me want to shake these parents until their brains rattle. It's no fucking wonder SnowflakeBoys have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement and fragility and can't cope with any dent in it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:12 AM on August 20, 2017 [31 favorites]


Notes from yesterday's Vancouver Stand Up to Racism Protest:

Good turnout, about 4000 people of all ages, ethnicities and religions. (shout out to the strong unitarian contingent) The event was led by women, with women of colour in the most prominent leadership positions; I don't think I heard a man speak until the mayor took a turn at the microphone. People were definitely afraid going in (my favorite sign was "I was afraid to be here, so I came") but being shoulder to shoulder with my neighbours was encouraging. Very quickly, the spirit of the event became joyful celebration of community and shared values. (the carnival band helped)

I suppose I should mention the white supremacists, although the event was so successful that they were completely marginalized. They cancelled their event in the face of our overwhelming opposition and fielded no organized presence. I was sorry to hear that a few straggler bigots did show up one by one (a sig heiler, a MAGA, etc.) but they were so efficiently repelled by peaceful protesters and so quickly removed by police that it was often hard to notice that one of them had been there.

And will Canadian immigration officers do their jobs when it's a bunch of white boys wanting exceptions?

Canadian racism is homegrown and deeply entrenched. Musqueam activist Melanie Point did a good job of reminding us that opposing literal nazis is barely minimal effort against racism; that white people have an obligation to tear down white supremacy as it exists in Canada in many forms.

This was definitely protesting on easy mode, with support from the police and from all levels of government (even tepid, after the fact praise from Trudeau). Still, it felt good to win a victory so absolute. The racists will be back - they'll never quite go away - but it was good to see them chased back under the rocks they came from.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:16 AM on August 20, 2017 [16 favorites]


They think it's fun. It's fun to believe that others are evil and inferior - as long as they can't really hurt you. The minute that they are actually dangerous, then it's scary and you either throw down or strip off, as it were.

We're really talking about a catastrophic failure to develop empathy here, and there are so many interrelated causes for that. Technologically mediated communication, interaction, and entertainment are obviously implicated significantly.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:18 AM on August 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trump Is Going to Resign Soon, President's 'Art of the Deal' Writer Predicts

I'm not willing to hold my breath for this outcome. But of all the "Trump leaves office early" scenarios, I think this one is ideal. I like the idea of the criminal hammer (and/or impeachment) coming down on him, but I fear the violence that will ensue if that comes to pass. If he simply quits, his base will still feel aggrieved, but I'd imagine they'll be less likely to feel that a literal injustice has occurred, and put the insurrection on the back burner.

2017, man. What's the best way to get rid of the President that doesn't incur terrorism and civil war. Sheesh.
posted by Brak at 11:34 AM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


how is a government shutdown likely to force construction of the wall?

It wouldn't, of course, but Trump's the kind of hostage-taker who would murder all the hostages to prove he's serious, then make demands and be baffled when it doesn't work.
posted by mrgoat at 11:47 AM on August 20, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump, instead of resigning outright, will first use the idea as the lever to whip up his core supporters against centrist republicans. He will say:

"I've tried, and my supporters know how much I've tried, no other president in modern history has tried as much to right this country. But if I don't get much needed support from republican elected officials (who prefer to take the democrat's side every time!), I will consider resigning and continuing the fight outside of the white house. Call your reps! JOBS!"

Using it as a threat may cost him little and he still would retain the pardon powers.
posted by rainy at 11:48 AM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


Right, I suppose he thinks he can force funding for his wall by threatening to veto spending bills?
posted by thelonius at 11:49 AM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


"You have no idea how much crazy stuff we kill"

It's like how the Homeland Security and intel services are all, "Dude, you really really really don't want to know the type and amount of terrorist attacks that have been foiled without anyone in the public ever being aware of them, because if you were, you'd never sleep again."

Not that I feel one whit of sympathy for any WH staffer, but hearing Trump's random day-to-day brainstorms must be like staring into the abyss.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:58 AM on August 20, 2017 [14 favorites]


Here's what I'd like to see happen to Trump: everyone in the White House, or anyone he encounters regularly, becomes totally unafraid of him, and, when he throws rage fits in his bunker, people just humor him and are visibly unconcerned that they need to take him seriously. He'd be insane within three days.
posted by thelonius at 12:00 PM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


You saw that video of the young blond guy who stripped off his polo shirt the minute the antifa threatened to actually hit him? He said himself that he was just there for fun. [...] If they were scared, they'd act different.

The thing that grossed me out most about that video is, he didn't even think he was in danger. It was like being tagged out in baseball or caught in a vigorous game of kick-the-can. All right, ya got me! Good job, good game. I'll just run back now.

That kind of smugness and privilege, to be able to treat this like a game, almost makes me want to see a kid like that get the tar beaten out of him publicly to make it real for the others.

But it wouldn't work, it would just give them something else to feel victimized about.
posted by ctmf at 12:01 PM on August 20, 2017 [30 favorites]


Here's how opting he gets IDed and fired like the rest. No outs for "irony".
posted by Artw at 12:04 PM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


Frowner: You saw that video of the young blond guy who stripped off his polo shirt the minute the antifa threatened to actually hit him?

No. Link plz?
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:09 PM on August 20, 2017


Okay, I found it, never mind.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:14 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ooof. In it for the lulz IRL. What the hell?
posted by lkc at 12:28 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Watching that again, it's too bad that encounter wasn't in a more conducive atmosphere to talk. The guy questioning him was right on the edge of something there for a second. At the "I was in jail" remark - "what for" was the worst follow-up. (not blaming the "interviewer", he didn't know this was going to happen and doesn't seem like a pro journalist). The kid seemed ready to let it all out, maybe have a moment of enlightenment. "And what about your time in jail, what did you experience?" "I'm super interested in your story, can I buy you a beer and talk a bit?" Might have resulted in a pretty insightful story.

Optimistic, maybe. Shrug.
posted by ctmf at 12:47 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump is totally the type of person who will threaten with leaving if things don't go his way. This points back to his real estate background as much as his spoilt-child-narcissistic personality, as the investor he has probably been successful with threatening to leave several times. So when he does (maybe he already did?), we just need the Republican leadership to call him on it. The hard part is to get them to develop that much of a spine, I guess, but lets see what he does next.

Has anybody studied the phenomenon of genderedness in helicopter and apron-string parenting?, because I very anecdotally see a major skew toward "mothers (and some fathers) infantilizing menchildren" at the college level these days.

I've seen that for the last decade or so. It's weird. When I started teaching, there would regularly be young women from conservative families who had been infantilized by their parents/family. Today they are almost extinct, but now it's the young men who are "cute" and immature.
posted by mumimor at 12:54 PM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


Alt-right hate women, Black people, other POC, queer people, Jewish people, the fat and the disabled not because they feel threatened but precisely because they do not. If they were scared, they'd act different.

I have thought and said this in some form or another since I was very young. That white Nazi lady who tried to keep my 7-year old self from going into Hawley Road Elementary School in 1976 wasn't afraid of anybody—and came after us all specifically because we were children, none of us older than 12. Teachers had to hold her back from striking us, so she settled for screaming the n-word in rage at us, and sputtering at me that I was a "half-breed" and an "abomination". Then she got angry at the white teachers helping us and called them "traitors" (the cops were conveniently across the street when there should have been a phalanx lined up on either side of the school bus door and up the steps to the school to keep the Nazis away from us).

These boils have been festering and erupting since the end of the Civil War, so while I'm not shocked by these ridiculous white supremacists, I don't understand why these boils can't be lanced. I ask myself, whom does all these -isms and chaos serve?

It goes past Trump, Bannon, and these Nazis in the US. The very structure of Western civilization is built upon the premise that Europeans are the best people of all time, and are superior; not just superior, but that they are conquerors! If they managed to overrun your country and strip its resources for themselves, or steal your people to be enslaved, raped, and murdered, well, that's tough and your people must be weaklings who don't deserve to live.

I've heard that exact argument back in Wisconsin as a teenager in the 80s from white boys in my classes, who also had no problem saying this to black boys at school in the hope that the black boys would hit them and then get in trouble—yet again thinking that black people were too stupid to see what they were up to. And here we are now, not isolated as such, but better organized thanks to the internet.

So no, if they were actually scared of anyone, they wouldn't even show their faces in public, but they're not scared, they're angry; angry like a 2 year old being forced to share toys. That's why they're out here acting like they are.
posted by droplet at 1:05 PM on August 20, 2017 [160 favorites]


Trump is totally the type of person who will threaten with leaving if things don't go his way.
Stacy: You don't like it? Fine. You know Wayne, if you're not careful, you're going to lose me.

Wayne: I lost you two months ago. Are you mental?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:12 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


My acupuncturist told me that Nazism is like Harry Potter for white people, and I started laughing really hard, because ouch, I love Harry Potter, and also I guess I see his point about these man boys wanting to be the chosen one, and also the acupuncturist was sticking needles in me at the time and he couldn't do it while I was guffawing, and anytime I try to stop guffawing when I am guffawing it becomes these intense squelched giggles and so my acupuncturist was just kneeling in front of me with needles, waiting for to stop, for like three minutes.
posted by angrycat at 1:17 PM on August 20, 2017 [28 favorites]


But I had my own Harry Potter moment (Harry Potter for disabled people) when I was on 52nd and Market in Philly and I met a member of ADAPT who had been one of the people arrested in DC over the health care bill and dragged from his chair.

I told him my experience of going to a DCCC training with stairs where they were like, 'what we really need people to do is canvasing' which involves things like climbing stairs, which is not in my skill set.

So the ADAPT hero guy, upon hearing this, said, "They think that we can't do anything to help--but they're so wrong. Here's my name and phone number and I'll get you involved."

And it was truly a moment like Hagrid coming to get Harry from his family.
posted by angrycat at 1:26 PM on August 20, 2017 [122 favorites]


We're really talking about a catastrophic failure to develop empathy here, and there are so many interrelated causes for that. Technologically mediated communication, interaction, and entertainment are obviously implicated significantly.

The real nazis were produced in the 1930s and 1940s. The tech may play some role but it is really very minor compared to the much more major roles of human nature and authority based social structures.
posted by srboisvert at 2:04 PM on August 20, 2017 [19 favorites]


The real nazis were produced in the 1930s and 1940s. The tech may play some role but it is really very minor compared to the much more major roles of human nature and authority based social structures.

Well sure, but I wasn't talking about what makes people Nazis, just the "anything for the lulz" factor.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Indeed, the defining communications technology of the Third Reich was radio broadcasts; the government handed out free radio receivers to every household so that they could hear Hitler's speeches in their own homes. If you weren't Hitler, getting your own hateful ranting heard would have been considerably more difficult.
posted by acb at 2:32 PM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


On the "for the lulz" factor, there's that quote from Sartre on "anti-semites" that, uh
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
A parallel concept, I think, is Schrödinger's Douchebag or Schrödinger's Racist - someone who says something shitty and then decides whether or not they were joking or not based on the reactions of the people around them. (Parallel in that they're both types of insincerity)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:40 PM on August 20, 2017 [109 favorites]


This is quite diverting - claims that somebody is hiring POC actors (twitter) to hold up signs and act enthusiastically at 45's Phoenix rally. Is it the Committee to Relect the President? Is it Soros? Is it the Northampton Glee Club and Choral Society? Who knows.

It is impossible to grade this from 'true happening' to 'complete fabrication', with many possible levels between. But if it is a hoax, it's a good 'un; if someone really did leave that ad in bona fide expectation of hiring people for this, it's even more so.

If real, then $10/hr seems a low offer indeed for the various kinds of nastiness that may accrue, at the time or thereafter.
posted by Devonian at 2:47 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


When you want a profile of somebody who's been in it "for the lulz" long before the Internet did its current enabling, the perfect example is Herr Trump himself.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:47 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


NBC News is reporting, “President Trump will address the nation tomorrow on U.S. engagement in Afghanistan and South Asia.”

I’ve read conflicting reports in the last few days about the direction he might take. Anyone have any idea what he might say?
posted by _Mona_ at 2:47 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's handing the whole mess over to Blackwater/Xe, I believe.
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


There's no way we're going the East India Company route. It can't possibly be.
posted by Justinian at 2:56 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is quite diverting - claims that somebody is hiring POC actors (twitter) to hold up signs and act enthusiastically at 45's Phoenix rally. Is it the Committee to Relect the President? Is it Soros? Is it the Northampton Glee Club and Choral Society? Who knows.

Trump's campaign offered actors $50 to cheer for him at his presidential announcement, so it's entirely possible it's real.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:56 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


South . . . Asia?

Like India? Qatar?
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:58 PM on August 20, 2017


That's just his way of saying, "not you, NK".
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:00 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Wait, does he think Venezuela is in Asia?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:04 PM on August 20, 2017


A prime time address to the nation is usually reserved for very major policy announcements, like "we're pulling 100% of our forces out" or "we're adding 100k soldiers to Afghanistan." But with Trump he could be announcing the building of a new Trump Tower in Mumbai. That's where we're at now.
posted by Justinian at 3:06 PM on August 20, 2017 [24 favorites]


Why are they in some low ceilinged bunker with that weird 30% roofline on the right that forces the flags to be all clumped over to the left. Who left conference phone half there in the foreground?

FYI, that's the conference room at Camp David -- recently seen with matching lighting for the GCC summit, but still recognizably the same table as the Bush era complete with a porthole or something for the conferencing phone.

It may not have been the best site for a formal senior staff/cabinet photo [by itself that's a weird grouping, though], but the place has a long history of deliberately casual usage -- here's Clinton (W.J.) with his own cabinet -- so I'm not sure this is something to overly psychologize.

Looks like bad on-camera flash

Now here we can pile on. This photographer is no Pete Souza. His successor, Shealah Craighead, has been criticized by peers and journalists, but also seems to be sidelined by her boss on more than one occasion. Overall the current WH is taking a notable break from the open, humane warmth established by the last one. In short, there are a lot of inexplicable choices that have led to some awkward imagery getting out, like the (press) photo of Kellyanne Conway, cell phone in hand, in her stockinged feet on an Oval Office sofa -- and at the same time in the shot being taken by the official photographer.

You gotta count 9/11. Move the start date to 1995 & you can include Oklahoma City but the number's still severely unbalanced against Islamists.

I dunno, I think it's such an impossibly outsized number that it would overshadow anything else (which seems to be your point). It would be like counting (while it's sort of on topic) "Northerner elites murdering Southerner populists" while including the casualty figures from the Civil War. At some point you have to make distinctions and determine cutoff dates.

The real point of people bringing up "terrorism deaths" is not the actual numbers or risks, which are relatively small -- compared to things like heart disease, or jaywalking -- but to make the unstated point that they are undeserved. In other words, it's another form of white/Western privilege. The actual numbers, then, are largely irrelevant and any competing numbers or framing are likely to be rejected perforce.

authority based social structures

I've been giving a lot of thought to this. The infamous Tumblr image seemed to be more predictive of all this than any scientific poll. I don't think the tech is entirely blameless as I don't see any of these trendlines fitting a traditionally designed reactionary, RW, racist lashback but here we are. The question has always been whether this very individualistic, solipsistic, "for the lulz", "what about the memes" masturbatory self-entertainment -- literal wankery if there ever could be such a thing -- could merge with, or at least mesh with, the more predictable and well-established anti-establishmentarianism of the existing white nationalism, white supremacy, neo-Nazi structures. I don't think Charlottesville or Boston have yet really answered that.

the government handed out free radio receivers to every household

Well, there was a great tweet about carrying the President's brain around in your pocket. But despite his loathsome comments, and his coterie of dead-eyed fascists, there doesn't seem to be an immediate hunger to build on this in the top-down sense, so that's ... a point in our favor. Still, the Breitbarf pivot to a sort of chaos-fomentation again sort of indicates that if we get closer to fascism, it's going to look more like Putinism than anything we're familiar with from the 1930s. Back then there was a hunger -- across ideological lines -- for wide-scale social regimentation. Uniforms, marches, the whole thing. I don't think the polo-khaki thing quite qualifies, at least at the current stage. And I think the current backlash against Confederate statues means that for the time being, both a) the Charlottesville effect is net negative, but b) they probably still seem to feel they scored some hits.

This isn't to minimize how dangerous this movement is, but I feel we still haven't seen it coalesce into the scale of a mass movement that would be necessary to be existential to the republic, regardless of dangers to life and limb POC and other targeted groups might face. That inflection point isn't here yet, even if it feels like it might be close. As of now, I'm slightly confident that we can keep it from doing that, even if it now seems certain we're going to be dealing with (scarily dangerous) tiny little gazebos-worth here and there for some time to come.

(If anything this may simply be down to the administration's failure to fulfill some expectations that they would pursue a more nakedly populist agenda, instead of basically playing referee to the same-old GOP health-care and taxes song-and-dance.)
posted by dhartung at 3:14 PM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


9:00 Monday night is the Paul Ryan town hall that CNN has been promoting so hard.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:22 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


>Optimistic, maybe. Shrug.

Optimistic, sure, but I think right on the nose, actually. What I'm seeing in the past couple of weeks, with so much first-person, primary source material forthcoming from these events, is that the white supremacists/neo-Nazis/alt-right/terrible people appear mostly to be emotionally wounded and completely lacking in the skill set to understand, contextualize and process their emotions and feelings--as they're happening or afterward--and a general lack of emotional intelligence. I have no idea how to engage such a person or population of persons in active empathy and listening, other than several thousand (million?) one-on-one conversations, pursued as opportunities arise (like the one you mention).

>This isn't to minimize how dangerous this movement is, but I feel we still haven't seen it coalesce into the scale of a mass movement that would be necessary to be existential to the republic[...]

Folks in Boston have strongly reinforced my sense that this is hyperreality meeting empirical reality, and the nazis are learning that they are far more fearsome online, in a mediated reality that is epistemically secure. Vastly more of us have been educated in and embraced liberal, tolerant social values than are rejecting them, according to the real-world evidence we've seen in the past few weeks. These faux-nazis may be the tip of a spear, or they may be a giant, gross paper tiger--given the extraordinary saturation of our individual daily experiences in mediated reality/ies, either is possible. Thus far, evidence indicates paper tiger. I hope this pattern persists.
posted by LooseFilter at 3:29 PM on August 20, 2017 [24 favorites]


9:00 Monday night is the Paul Ryan town hall that CNN has been promoting so hard.

Oh. So Trump could just be using this as an opportunity to screw over "fake news" CNN. "I'm just here so I don't get fined to lower CNN's ratings" repeated over and over.
posted by Justinian at 3:32 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


What White Nationalism Gets Right About American History
I was raised by the leaders of the white nationalist movement with a model of American history that described a vigorous white supremacist past and once again I find myself observing events in which I once might have participated before I rejected the white nationalist cause several years ago. After the dramatic, horrible and rightly unnerving events in Charlottesville, Va., this past weekend, I had to make separate calls: one to make sure no one in my family who might have attended the rally got hurt, and a second to see if any friends at the University of Virginia had been injured in the crowd of counterprotesters.
posted by mumimor at 3:34 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


I have no idea how to engage such a person or population of persons in active empathy and listening,
I suspect people like these have had a strong support system of other people like these, which recently turned from reassurance that they are the top of the food chain to an echo chamber of "OMG the OTHERS are out to get us!" It probably started with Obama's election and should have taken a step back with Their Hero Donald becoming President, but every time he looks (1) vulnerable, (2) stupid or (3) a failure, their Great White Hope is crushed. Yes, even some of them can see how badly he's doing, but most of those are blaming sabotage by cucks/RINOs/DeepState/Soros...
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:38 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


So it turns out there was a Quebec white supremacy rally, that wasn't on my radar. It was a decisive victory and they marched near the Plains of Abraham.

One of the Counter protests was poorly done, to say the least. Im not sure if this was due to a lack of people, or... (police in at least some cities in the province of Quebec have shown that they're willing to be agent provocateurs(Montreal police are on the record admitting it))


That this happened in Quebec doesn't surprise me, however.
posted by Yowser at 3:44 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


There's that, but I think there's also an increasing cloud of vague anxiety about the state of the world itself. Resources everyone always thought were so abundant they were effectively free, not so. Housing. Water. Hope for a prosperous, comfortable life. (Obviously, this is a position of privilege in the first place). Unspoken conclusion: there isn't enough for everyone in the world. Pick a team or be left out when the circle gets too small.
posted by ctmf at 3:48 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Thus far, evidence indicates paper tiger.

They're moving the Overton window. Nazis will remain a tiny fringe, but they'll become increasingly mainstream. TV news will routinely interview Nazis and they'll hold regular rallies in major cities. As they get normalized as part of American discourse, it will become more and more common for people to be openly racist -- not hiring minorities for jobs, passing discriminatory laws, criticizing anyone who makes any tiny effort at equality as an extreme liberal. Republicans have been doing this for decades -- remember how 10 years ago, a Muslim ban would have been a sad joke? But 10 years of people saying incomprehensible and horrible things about Muslims on TV later, and it seems like a relatively reasonable policy to many voters. The right is very good at playing the long game to get what they want.
posted by miyabo at 3:52 PM on August 20, 2017 [50 favorites]


Also: the term “extreme liberal” will stop sounding oxymoronic. Perhaps afterwards, they'll go for the extreme moderates...
posted by acb at 4:04 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


In other way-too-appropriate news, a corpse flower at the U.S. Botanic Garden has bloomed and TWO more are about to open up and stink up the place...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:07 PM on August 20, 2017 [15 favorites]


criticizing anyone who makes any tiny effort at equality as an extreme liberal.

Oh noez, not a LIBERAL! What could be worse than being called a liberal? Being called a Nazi maybe?

We liberals have got to get to the point where we can stand up and say, "Yes, I'm a liberal, and I'm proud of it." I don't think that's a problem here on MeFi, but it seems to be a sticking point in many other places.

"Yes, I'm a liberal, and if you don't believe in equal rights for all citizens, you're a bigot. An un-American bigot."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:11 PM on August 20, 2017 [28 favorites]


Perhaps afterwards, they'll go for the extreme moderates...

What makes a man turn neutral anyway?

Rallying cry already picked out.
posted by mrgoat at 4:11 PM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


This isn't to minimize how dangerous this movement is, but I feel we still haven't seen it coalesce into the scale of a mass movement that would be necessary to be existential to the republic, regardless of dangers to life and limb POC and other targeted groups might face.

You're too blasé about the threat from the Twitler Youth. They're effectively the youth wing of the Republican party; what happens when they rise into the ranks of officialdom, or when the police and other officers start working with them? They don't need to take over the government if they're already inside it.

The horrible thing is, I don't think they're the worst threat. I think they're just a manifestation of the same forces that allowed Trump to be elected. Unlike our enemies, we haven't yet come to terms with the leveling effect of the internet. The gatekeepers of public opinion used to be the press, but traditional media is collapsing in the face of sponsored and fake news. The party system used to be another safeguard, but omnipresent media means that people are more influenced by their Facebook feed than by personal approaches. We can see the effects in action: politicians who will sit on their hands rather than confirm vital appointments or pass budgets, but will literally vote for other legislation sight unseen. There's a gaping void at the heart of the political system: it reaches from the bottom to the top; and it's an existential threat to both the republic and the entire world.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:16 PM on August 20, 2017 [32 favorites]


9:00 Monday night is the Paul Ryan town hall that CNN has been promoting so hard.
And wasn't the timeslot for The Apprentice for at least one season?
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:26 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


They're moving the Overton window.

Very true, but I think it's more accurate to say that they're trying to continue to move the Overton window. While that's met with success thus far, the difference in degree can produce hugely different results.

I think of it like a quantum tipping point, where they'll persist in their pattern, move things along one more click, but some small degree of movement--slightly more overt and open messages, actions, so on--will eventually be the proverbial straw, and the large, majority critical mass of the rest of us will stand up and say no more, all of this shit has to go. (I imagine that would look something like 30,000 people showing up to tell a couple dozen racists to shut the fuck up.)

I guess I'm just saying that things will not persist as they always have, change does occur, and reality--despite Karl Rove's cocky assurances to the contrary--will always assert itself. If the reality is that the United States is populated by millions of virulently racist people, then, well, it's horrifying to have that flower bloom (and this is not the place I thought it was at all). But if the reality is that the alt-right is mostly an anger-and-anxiety-fueled internet circle-jerk, then when it comes time to show up and actually do things out in the world, they will be outnumbered by orders of magnitude.

You're too blasé about the threat from the Twitler Youth. They're effectively the youth wing of the Republican party; what happens when they rise into the ranks of officialdom, or when the police and other officers start working with them? They don't need to take over the government if they're already inside it.

A reasonable concern, but we still don't have evidence that the "Twitler Youth" aren't, like, 65% bots or Russian disinformation officers or whatever. For my part, I simply refuse to buy into any version of fatalism (i.e., the traditional media may have collapsed, but the Washington Post (to name one) is experiencing enormous growth in subscribers and are adapting substantive reporting and commentary to new media quite well (IMHO), new media outlets are rapidly growing up and producing work of real substance, etc.) or powerlessness (like, they can keep trying to do this shit, but it's not literally unstoppable; we just haven't figured out how to yet). If most people in any town, city, state, country or continent were fundamentally hateful and angry, the world really would be on fire. That it isn't, to me, speaks the overwhelmingly peaceful basic nature of human beings at present.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:35 PM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


Shaun King--the photographer who took pictures of the men who brutally tried to kill Deandre Harris has finally been contacted by the FBI.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:41 PM on August 20, 2017 [35 favorites]


They're effectively the youth wing of the Republican party; what happens when they rise into the ranks of officialdom, or when the police and other officers start working with them? They don't need to take over the government if they're already inside it.

No, I'm sorry, that is actually the worst of it. The "forces" that allowed Trump to come to power were a groundswell of populism that neither the Republicans nor Democrats acknowledged - the Goopers got a populist, and it turned out he was a Nazi-sympathizer Randroid Accelerationist as well as a populist.

Bernie clearly wasn't the right populist to represent the party, as much as I like the man and his policies, but all other contenders were stifled, either not developed inside the party, or strong-armed into sitting this one out. It was a tactical mistake that musn't be repeated. I am trusting for the moment it won't be. In stand-up comedy jargon - READ THE GODDAMN ROOM. (This opinion is null and void if evidence comes out the actual vote tally was tampered with, in the primaries or general.)

What is worse is the gleeful sadism in the service of humor that has infected the political right. Rush Lindbaugh is a funny, charming man, and he punches DOWN with verve and panache... as does Anne Coulter, Tomi Iomi I mean Lehrer, Glen Beck, Alex Jones - these are all comedians. Their comedy is vile. It makes people laugh and come closer to them, feel like they're a part of something, not realizing or caring they're becoming vile themselves or the something they're a part of is loathsome and UnAmerican.

This is our fight, now.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:45 PM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


Specifically: Breaking: Destroyer USS John S. McCain involved in collision with merchant ship east of Singapore and Strait of Malacca - 7th Fleet

The USS John S. McCain? Go home writers. You're drunk.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on August 20, 2017 [44 favorites]


USS John S. McCain

Per reports the captain expressed grave concern as he ordered the ship full speed ahead.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 5:01 PM on August 20, 2017 [117 favorites]


That's not anywhere near the Gulf of Tonkin by chance, is it?
posted by Rykey at 5:01 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Are we sure the ships actually collided? I heard our ship just delivered a strong rebuke to the other ship.
posted by snofoam at 5:02 PM on August 20, 2017 [15 favorites]


Is it like last time,where they were just too stubborn to admit they didn't have right of way?
posted by Yowser at 5:02 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


It looks like Breitbart is already unloading with both barrels on Jared and Ivanka.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Too bad. The Ivanka and Jared takedowns were so delightful; now that disinformation from Breitbart (not Nazis but #1 with Nazis) is in the mix, it won't be as fun.
posted by Yowser at 5:05 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Also, I prefer ships that weren't in maritime accidents. Also, steady hand on the tiller.
posted by snofoam at 5:07 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


It looks like Breitbart is already unloading with both barrels on Jared and Ivanka.

We approach the event horizon of the Horrid Singularity.
posted by nubs at 5:10 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Slap*Happy: Tomi Iomi I mean Lehrer

What?
posted by CCBC at 5:14 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


They mean Tomi Lahren. She had an appearance on The Daily Show.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:16 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Slap*Happy: Tomi Iomi I mean Lehrer

What?


Black Sabbath joke, I think.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 5:18 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


People are beginning to speculate about a hack job on the guidance systems, 2 collisions in less than 6 mos is very strange.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:36 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Randomly..... it seems to me that all operatives and politicians and spokespeople for the Democratic party would do well to instil message discipline in a single, simple manner: always, but always refer to the Republican party as "The Trump Republican party" in every situation until DJT has resigned or is impeached.
posted by peacay at 5:40 PM on August 20, 2017 [27 favorites]


Thanks, Rainbo Vagrant. Tomi Lahren, not Tommi Iommi. I sort of have it now.
posted by CCBC at 5:43 PM on August 20, 2017


Isn't the "Harry Potter for white people" just Harry Potter? Am confused.
posted by Grangousier at 5:54 PM on August 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


Yup. I was just listening to a podcast(one of the crooked media ones I think) where there was a never Trumper talking about the Charlottesville just absolutely denied that the Republican party could possibly be racist.

Which is just, nonsense. The entire feeder system of College Republicans going back to at least the early 80s is filled to the brim with bonafide white supremacists, for one thing.

If calling it the Trump Republican party is the way to stick racism to them permanently , do it.

If it means losing racist Democratic Party members, then so be it.
posted by Yowser at 5:56 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


a never Trumper talking about the Charlottesville just absolutely denied that the Republican party could possibly be racist.

I'm so sick of this framing. I was able to semi-turn someone grar'ing about libtards on Twitter by reversing the question: How many of these white supremacists voted Republican? Why are so many of them Republicans?" You can sidestep the entire No True Scotsman angle by removing the standard defense, that generalizations break down upon examination (Not All Republicans, All Lives Matter, etc.). So, don't start with the generalization, start with the specific: the racists and what they do with their politics.

When you focus on the traits of the subculture and why they align one way or another, it opens up the question of what Republicans share with racists such that their votes are reliable. That is, you can agree that not all Republicans are racist, but why are all racists Republican?
posted by rhizome at 6:06 PM on August 20, 2017 [38 favorites]


MetaFilter: mostly an anger-and-anxiety-fueled internet circle-jerk
posted by kirkaracha at 6:12 PM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm sure that for a narcissist whose main goal in life is putting his name on things, he'd consider the "Trump Republican Party" to be the ultimate honor, no matter what anybody else thinks.

And I've said before that I have expected for some time that the Republicans would ultimately put a fascist, pseudo-populist with an extreme public persona into the White House but I ranked several FoxNoozers, Radio Shock Jocks and Fake Wrestlers above this UnRealityTV Star for likelihood. But now I'm kind of relieved that we ended up with an incompetent buffoon who can't take advice or direction, because his failure is pretty much assured and the damage to the party will be massive.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:15 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh noez, not a LIBERAL! What could be worse than being called a liberal? Being called a Nazi maybe?
Santos: It's true, Republicans have tried to turn 'liberal' into a bad word. Well, liberals ended slavery in this country.

Vinick: A Republican president ended slavery.

Santos: Yes, a liberal Republican. What happened to them? They got run out of your party. What did liberals do that was so offensive to the Republican party? I'll tell you what they did. Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, and the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed every one of those programs. Every one. So when you try to hurl the word 'liberal' at my feet, as if it were dirty, something to run away from, something that I should be ashamed of, it won't work, Senator, because I will pick up that label and wear it as a badge of honor.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:15 PM on August 20, 2017 [180 favorites]


The USS John S. McCain was named after both the grandfather and father of Senator McCain (both Navy admirals), not after the senator himself.

The boat it hit, Alnic MC, is a large tanker, with (if loaded) roughly five times the displacement of an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer. This is gonna be bad if it was more than a glancing hit.
posted by spitbull at 6:16 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


People are beginning to speculate about a hack job on the guidance systems, 2 collisions in less than 6 mos is very strange.

“Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action." –Auric Goldfinger
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:16 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Navy has already disciplined the captain and bridge crew of the last incident. I doubt there's been a hack of the guidance systems. Would be easily discovered and be an offensive act of war. Whose gonna do that?
posted by spitbull at 6:19 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd have said the same thing about hacking elections.
posted by ryanrs at 6:20 PM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


A hack job would not have resulted in firing the CO, XO, and CMC of FITZ, plus a dozen or so administrative actions for the bridge and CIC watches. We don't know what happened to McCain yet, but hacked "guidance systems" (what, radar? binoculars, ffs?) is just fantasy fiction at this point.
posted by ctmf at 6:22 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


hacking elections
Nah, it's not the same even if it should be. Any nation state that hacked a US destroyer's guidance system would face immediate and severe retaliation. For what? They didn't sink the first one. And after partial investigation the Navy busted the captain of the Fitzgerald and the on duty bridge crew. That satisfies me that there was egregious human error.

The Alnic is smaller than the boat that was hit by the Fitzgerald, though. So that's good news.
posted by spitbull at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


(I don't actually think the guidance systems were hacked. My point was more about retaliation.)
posted by ryanrs at 6:29 PM on August 20, 2017


Seems like several reports that the McCain crew is ok with only minor injuries and the ship is sailing under its own power.
posted by spitbull at 6:30 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Vanity Fair, Gabe Sherman, Steve Bannon Readies His Revenge: The war on Jared Kushner is about to go nuclear.
Recently, according to several sources, Bannon has told friends he wants Priebus to give his account of the James Comey firing to special prosecutor Robert Mueller. According to a source close to Priebus, the former chief of staff believes that the decision was made during an early May weekend in Bedminster, where Kushner, Ivanka Trump, and Stephen Miller were with the president. Trump returned to the Oval Office on Monday, May 8 and told other aides he intended to fire Comey.
So essentially Bannon wants Priebus to testify that Kushner should take the fall for Comey's firing. That could get interesting. He also wants a war with Fox.
posted by zachlipton at 6:32 PM on August 20, 2017 [20 favorites]


Something stinks, that's two military collisions with commercial ships in recent memory.
posted by rhizome at 6:34 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


So I guess that's the full on "war" on "liberals" he promised? Good luck old chum.
posted by Artw at 6:35 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spitbull, I agree it could be not as bad as Fitz, except now twitter is reporting (unconfirmed) two berthings and shaft alley flooded, (separately) 10 missing, 5 hurt.

Flooding a berthing at 5-something am is never going to be good.
posted by ctmf at 6:37 PM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


Something stinks, that's two military collisions with commercial ships in recent memory.

Possibly this is a sign that there are too many warships around? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:37 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


A gazebo of Nazis, a quiver of grudges...

Time for a Trump-themed edition of An Exaltation of Larks.
posted by zachlipton at 6:40 PM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


"In his feud with Kushner, Bannon may have a powerful ally: Reince Priebus, also recently departed from the White House with a quiver of grudges."

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but I'm not going to claim I'm not excited about their circular firing squad ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:43 PM on August 20, 2017 [30 favorites]


So essentially Bannon wants Priebus to testify that Kushner should take the fall for Comey's firing. That could get interesting. He also wants a war with Fox.

Good. Let them all take each other down with their petty backstabbing. Mueller can pound the nails in the coffins.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:43 PM on August 20, 2017 [19 favorites]


ctmf, you're seeing newer reports. That's bad. Good thoughts.

Trump will need to address this tomorrow night if lives are lost or sailors are still missing. Or risk looking completely clueless.
posted by spitbull at 6:43 PM on August 20, 2017


Possibly this is a sign that there are too many warships around? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sure, but a nice chunk of the crew of the other one just got relieved of duty and reassigned, so...I dunno what kind of strategy the crashes are accomplishing. Note in that article that the Fitzgerald was apparently "on its way to an emergency," which...ha.
posted by rhizome at 6:45 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


“Those days are over when Ivanka can run in and lay her head on the desk and cry,” he told multiple people.

And I know that Trump and Bannon are rumored to still be working together or whatever, but I have to wonder how many times he can unload the cannons on Trump's favorite child before Trump gets pissed. I mean, he was apoplectic at Nordstrom for not stocking her stuff anymore due to poor sales; Bannon is straight up directly insulting her.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:48 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


Um, on another note does anyone know what the theme for this week is? Because I need to calculate the proper popcorn-to-existential-horror ratios.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:50 PM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]


Fox beat @USNavy to the punch, but only barely. I'd take "missing" numbers with a grain of salt - it took Fitz hours to come up with a solid number, what with everyone actively fighting flooding, electrical problems, and whatever else from the impact shock. You don't really stop what you're doing to do a man-overboard muster, even though that's important too.
posted by ctmf at 6:59 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Trump? "That's too bad." [about the collision] per Haberman. Smooth.
posted by ctmf at 7:02 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


This Daily Beast article is just utterly hilarious. I mean even the headline is making me laugh out loud. Melania Trump Is Starting to Step Into the Void Left by Ivanka and Jared

Void? Jared and Ivanka are, um, still there. But obviously Melania's publicist doesn't care what Javanka's publicist thinks.

Can you imagine the Obama White House if every staffer had their own publicists running around reminding people how great they are? That Kelly hasn't made these idiots fire all the publicists is nuts.
posted by zachlipton at 7:02 PM on August 20, 2017 [28 favorites]


Republicans really the party of the troops there.
posted by Artw at 7:04 PM on August 20, 2017


METAFILTER:: Because I need to calculate the proper popcorn-to-existential-horror ratios
posted by philip-random at 7:05 PM on August 20, 2017 [19 favorites]


It is interesting the father of two of the young men, who participated in the Barcelona van attack, was interviewed, he said many of the things I said about bad actors from the web coming for our young men. He said they were so young, and so nice. He just wanted to protect them from drugs, drinking, smoking, so he sent them to Mosque. The Qurans were in Arabic so they could not read them, and they listened to what they were told. The father said, someone used them, because they were young. They were used by adults. It is everywhere, I realized when writing about the alt right, that those sentiments could apply to any recruiting agency, looking for soldiers, followers, converts, believers, doers, chumps, victims, you name it. The father was aggrieved over the loss of his sons, when all he wanted to do basically, was send them to church for their own good.
posted by Oyéah at 7:31 PM on August 20, 2017 [21 favorites]


Hmm, "political molestation" has a certain ring to it.
posted by rhizome at 7:41 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Compare with a shot of Obama's cabinet which is just so open and airy and simultaniously relaxed but meticulously composed.

That wistful longing for a time that didn't suck so much...

Since dhartung recognized that the Trump photo is from Camp David, I'll point out that Obama's photo is taken in the East Room of the White House. It's appropriate because it's used as the WH's public reception space, so the photo is that administration introducing themselves to the nation so to speak. The composition is great too, of course it's nice to pose in front of Washington and Teddy Roosevelt, but there's so much history and symbolism you can read into those portraits. The portrait of Washington is a replica of the Lansdowne portrait that survived the British burning the WH in 1814. The portrait's history was not lost on Obama, he later invited the descendants of Paul Jennings to the White House to honor the enslaved man who helped to rescue it. And Teddy oversaw the renovations to the East Room transforming it from a victorian acid trip to the stately beaux-arts style of today. Even after Truman had to completely gut the White House, it was rebuilt so that Roosevelt would recognize it (he used the room for judo demonstrations).

And the chandelier that's peeking into the top right of the Obama photo, people who work in the WH love those chandeliers. They are gorgeous in a way that doesn't photograph well enough. I know a guy who used to work in the residential staff so I've had a few behind the scenes tours, every time those chandeliers were a big topic. Last time I got a tour was in the GWB days, the East Room chandeliers had just been cleaned for the first time in a few years because the legendary glass cleaner had retired and it took that long to hire a replacement. People were legit excited that the chandeliers were polished up again.

> so I'm not sure this is something to overly psychologize.

Yeah, probably, and back to the point I was going to make, it's been striking to me how little Trump engages with the rich history and symbolism that he's now surrounded by. Maybe he's just dumb and his brain can't make metaphorical comparisons, or maybe the narcissism won't let him acknowledge that there were other presidents except when he needs to blame someone for the "mess" he's inherited, or maybe he'd rather promote his golf courses and hotels, or maybe it's just his really poor taste, but anyhow, Trump is now neck deep in the trappings of the richest symbolic and historical office of the country and all he's done is hang a portrait of Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office.

Even when he does engage with history to burnish his legitimacy he's done it in the most clumsy, cargo-culty way. For instance, in his recreation of the situation room photo he clearly didn't get what made Obama's compelling, but he got to show he's tough, squinty, and scowly. He tried to use Air Force One at a campaign rally, but mostly backed away from that. He launched missiles at Syria, but took that as an opportunity to tell us how beautiful the chocolate cake was. Before the presidency, from his stolen family crest to his "River of Blood" plaque, they're such cheap imitations of actual historical importance that he's getting close to stolen valor territory; they're cheap lies about the past, bad ones at that, to lend a false dignity.

He doesn't seem to get that he could really boost his image just by briefly controlling his worst impulses and rearranging some of the props his office affords him access to, I guess we're lucky for that.
posted by peeedro at 7:51 PM on August 20, 2017 [49 favorites]


Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, thrice is enemy action. If it happens again in the next few months, we can be assured automated shipping and the tools and processes in place to protect USN vessels from them have both been compromised by a state actor. I don't expect it to turn out this way, but I would demand our national leadership to plan for it to turn out that way.

Also, Harry Potter is literally the stand-in for every oppressed kid ever. J.K. Rowling would nod with vigorous approval at Harry Potter being depicted as Jamaican, at him being Harriet Potter, at her being Harriet Potter.

Unwanted kid being the one who saves us all is the deal. The Nazis have a problem with "us all", so they don't get to be Harry Potter.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:58 PM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


"A quiver of grudges" sounds like a fundamentalist dog whistle.
posted by Horkus at 8:01 PM on August 20, 2017


ELECTIONS NEWS

** Alabama senate special -- In case you missed it last week, incumbent appointed Senator Luther Strange and Roy "that Ten Commandments judge" Moore advanced to a runoff for the GOP nomination for the former Jeff Sessions Senate seat. And a new JMC Analytics poll has Moore in the lead 51-32.

I have to say I am surprised on this one. Strange is the nominal incumbent, has won previous statewide office, has had a ton of Mitch McConnell cash dumped in for him, and has the explicit endorsement of Trump. Both candidates have bent over backwards to deify Trump, but this might be an indicator that his endorsements in primaries may not mean much.

** 2018 House:
-- Dems are thinking big gains for the House next year. Real big. [NBC]

-- 538: Number of Dems running is a good sign, there's a historic positive correlation to election outcomes.
** Odds & ends:
-- Mentioned upstream, but that Marist poll of PA/MI/WI is really worth taking a look at. Trump approval in mid-30s, with majority of whites w/o college disapproving in general, and seeing him as failing on his job promises, in particular. Strongly disapproves greatly outnumber strongly approves. Generic House preferences of about 10 points for the Dems. Standard disclaimer that it's one poll, etc., but these are quite bad numbers for the GOP.

Of specific interest in PA, Sen. Casey is +11 favorable, as is Gov. Wolf, both of whom are up in 2018. Wolf is especially important, because he'd prevent a partisan gerrymander out of the GOP-controlled legislature at the 2020 redistricting; it's estimated that fair districts would mean a 2-3 seat Dem pickup.

Also, we note that WI Sen. Baldwin is +5, and MI Sen. Stabenow has +7. Possible MI Senate candidate (sigh) Kid Rock is +6, but I have an idea there *may* be some possible material in his background for negative ads.

-- Progressives mounting under the radar campaigns at local and municipal offices, even in conservative states. [WP]

-- Courts have ruled yet again that 2 Texas congressional districts are illegally gerrymandered. The state is appealing to the SC. [Texas Tribune]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:09 PM on August 20, 2017 [46 favorites]


Trump just disbanded the federal advisory panel for the National Climate Assessment.

The charter for the 15-person Advisory Committee for the Sustained National Climate Assessment — which includes academics as well as local officials and corporate representatives — expires Sunday. On Friday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s acting administrator, Ben Friedman, informed the committee’s chair that the agency would not renew the panel. [...]

While many state and local officials have pressed the federal government for more concrete guidance on how to factor climate change into future infrastructure, President Trump has moved in the opposite direction. Last week, the president signed an executive order on infrastructure that included language overturning a federal requirement that projects built in coastal floodplains and receiving federal aid take projected sea-level rise into account.


"[Chair Richard] Moss said members of the group intend to keep working on their report, which is due out next spring, even though it now will lack the official imprimatur of the federal government. 'It won’t have the same weight as if we were issuing it as a federal advisory committee,' he said."

I just do not get it - is it rapture that helps people feel ok about the destruction of the planet and the deaths of countless people and animals? They will not be here for it? As far as I know, climate change is an equal opportunity disaster.
posted by anya32 at 8:11 PM on August 20, 2017 [26 favorites]


GOP denialism on climate change has snowballed to the point where they have to pretend that it's not happening at all if they want to keep their jobs, because they've sold "it's all a hoax" too well to their base. It's not enough to say "we don't know if changes are caused by GHGs" (even though we totally do know) -- anybody who acknowledges in any meaningful way that sea levels or temperatures are rising, regardless of the cause, is a heretic who must be destroyed. So we get this idiocy.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:18 PM on August 20, 2017 [23 favorites]


peeedro: "For instance, in his recreation of the situation room photo he clearly didn't get what made Obama's compelling, but he got to show he's tough, squinty, and scowly."

Huh, I don't think I've seen this before. What were they supposed to be doing or looking at in this picture? Could it have been that important if Steven Mnuchin and Wilbur Ross are there? Also, it's funny how the angle makes it looks like Jared and Rex Tillerson are staring daggers at each other. Or, who knows, maybe they really were glaring at each other.
posted by mhum at 8:26 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


I was watching CNN today and came to a conclusion that should have been obvious to me but until now had somehow escaped my grasp: the Democrats want Trump to stay in power.

I don't remember which Dem was being interviewed, but Jake Tapper started asking the guy about whether it was time to invoke the 25th and get rid of Trump. The Dem avoided the answer and started going off about how it was more important to get more Democrats in the House and Senate during the next set of elections.

What he didn't explicitly say, but was obvious in the way it wasn't said, was that he figured the chances of getting more Dems elected goes up if Trump is still in power. They can hold him up as the bogey man and say, "look at the bad man, elect us to keep the bad man in check."

I guess they figure as long as Trump is making media waves saying things that should rile up liberal-types, they're got their built in advertising and campaign slogans. "Look, we're not him. We're not Nazis."

If Pence were to somehow replace Trump, that would immediately go out the window. Then they'd be back to politics as usual, with silent dog whistles and the Republicans working together to destroy healthcare, up military spending, cut taxes, etc., and the odds are much better those types of things would actually get done much more efficiently than they are now, allowing the undecided who are swayed by a promised one or two per cent tax cut to jump immediately on the Republican bandwagon without a thought about aligning themselves with the alt-right neo-Nazis.
posted by sardonyx at 8:27 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, re: Luther Strange and Roy Moore, that poll is prime evidence of just how much the GOP rank-and-file demands Trump-level craziness. POTUS' endorsement might have swung a race between two nobodies, but Roy Moore has been defying the Constitution, the Supreme Court (state and federal!) and basic decency in the name of pissing off liberals for over a decade now, and the voters know it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 PM on August 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


On climate change it really is the GOP versus the survival of humanity. You'd think that would sway more people to not-all-dying but apparently not.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've suspected that Trump wants just enough sea level rise in his lifetime to make Mar-a-Lago a beachfront property, and after he's dead, it's all irrelevant.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:35 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


"I just do not get it - is it rapture that helps people feel ok about the destruction of the planet and the deaths of countless people and animals? They will not be here for it? As far as I know, climate change is an equal opportunity disaster."

In Trump's case, it's just straight-up cussedness. People he dislikes (because he thinks they think they're better than him, which they probably do, because really, come on) say it's real, so he's going to insist it's fake. There's nothing more to it than that. He's sticking it to those jerks who say he's a tacky, jumped-up, dumb-as-a-rock wastrel of a wealthy man's son and nothing more. Like everything, it's entirely about his ego and avenging perceived slights. He literally doesn't care if all of humanity dies, as long as his ego's boo-boo feels better for five minutes.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:40 PM on August 20, 2017 [45 favorites]


sardonyx, that was Rep. Adam Schiff, ranking dem on house intel.

He specifically demurred about the 25th amendment process, which has never been invoked and could be a total shitshow if it got rolling. There are good reasons to prefer an orderly investigation and impeachment that likely weigh on the mind of someone who knows as much dirt as Schiff likely does.

I don't think it means he wants Trump to stay in power.
posted by spitbull at 8:40 PM on August 20, 2017 [52 favorites]


As far as I know, climate change is an equal opportunity disaster.

In the long term, perhaps, but the brunt of the immediate effects are going to be felt worst by the poor. Think back to Katrina, how many rich people had to camp out in the Superdome?
posted by radwolf76 at 8:41 PM on August 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


Sardonyx, I think you're right. I've been conflicted about impeaching Trump all along (and it's been discussed in previous threads, so I won't go into detail). In short, the best scenario I see: Trump remains in office until 2020, continuing to be incompetent and polarizing, while destroying the Republican brand and energizing the left, yet somehow not causing further loss of life along the way.

The probability of that best case scenario is greatly diminishing, though.
posted by darkstar at 8:42 PM on August 20, 2017


Here's Schiff on the 25th.
posted by spitbull at 8:43 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


I would also happily accept an indictment of Trump that so destabilizes and undermines Pence that he's not able to achieve anything of note once he's sworn in.
posted by darkstar at 8:45 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


I take it back: Sakura has the right idea. Speaker Pelosi, followed by impeachment/indictment of both Trump and Pence.

That is my new best case scenario.
posted by darkstar at 8:47 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


You're right, spitbull, it was Schiff. I just forgot his name as I started typing up the response.

Believe me, I can understand invoking the 25th would be an unprecedented mess. I'm sure at this point, Schiff is hoping there are enough official investigation irons in the fire heating up that something will turn up to make Trump impeachable.

I stand by my revelation, however, that the Democrats believe they can gain more seats in opposition to Trump than to Pence. Even if Trump should be impeached, the Republicans can just point to Pence and say, "see, here's a Real Republican acting the way a Real Republican should. Vote in some more Real Republicans to ensure that happens," leaving the Democrats to counter with the same ineffective strategies they've been using for the last number of years.
posted by sardonyx at 8:49 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


Vanity Fair, Gabe Sherman, Steve Bannon Readies His Revenge: The war on Jared Kushner is about to go nuclear.

popcorn.gif
posted by standardasparagus at 8:55 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Huh, I don't think I've seen this before. What were they supposed to be doing or looking at in this picture?

It was a briefing after the Syria missile strike. The BBC has a pretty good breakdown.
posted by peeedro at 8:59 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, there's a truly BatShitCrazy element in the Republican Party for whom Trump is The Messiah, and they will have zero enthusiasm for Pence and the "Real Republicans" if their hero is kicked out... and with Bannon leading the Breitbart cheering section, it'll definitely be a factor. Right now, there are two distinctly different strategies the Democrats could take, With Trump and Without Trump, and until it gets closer to the midterms and The Donald's status becomes more clear, it's not really worth doing serious strategizing now.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:05 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


Frances Robles interviews Richard Spencer for the New York Times Race/Related feature.

"Donald Trump and the so-called ‘alt-right’ are both symptoms of the same cause,” Mr. Spencer said, “the demographic displacement of white people. The dispossession of whites."

and

“I recognize that this is going to be a struggle and we have to understand it in those terms,” he said. “I don’t care about fairness. Who cares?”
posted by jgirl at 9:15 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


Before anyone gets too angry about Democrats not seriously pushing for the 25th, impeachment, etc: remember they're only going to get to try shit like this once. A failed shot will weaken their chances for further attempts at extreme remedies. They will have less credibility and it will only bolster Trump.

I want him gone, but I want him gone for sure. I want the remedy to work, not just see a gesture for the sake of making me feel better that someone is trying. Right now the best things to do are to put pressure on Republicans and to let Mueller do his thing.

Per Omar Little, when you come at the king, you best not miss.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:20 PM on August 20, 2017 [99 favorites]


Adam Schiff also has no power to invoke the 25th amendment, so i'm not sure why we would expect him to talk about it. He may not have thoight about it much. And it's not like he goes on TV for the fun of it. He's gonna talk about what he wants to talk about, whatever his talking point is today.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:21 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


That came out wrong. I mean, the 25th amendment is literally not his department.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:23 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


National Review: "Confederate Statues Honor Timeless Virtues -- Let Them Stay

Holy crap. Not surprised, though.
posted by jgirl at 9:25 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here's the link to the actual article instead of a tweet highlighting insanity in the article.

The highlighted bit:
From a historical point of view, it’s almost convincing, even though what American blacks suffered under segregation was nothing compared to what liberalism has inflicted on them since the 1950s, as it destroyed their families, their schools, and their young men and women’s lives through drugs and guns and the gangster-rap culture “lifestyle,” which is really a death style.
So, uh. That was written.
posted by xyzzy at 9:31 PM on August 20, 2017 [65 favorites]


Since most people don't click through, the NR piece is so much worse than you'd think from that headline. And given the headline that's saying something.
posted by Justinian at 9:31 PM on August 20, 2017 [21 favorites]


> And here we are now, not isolated as such, but better organized thanks to the internet.

> The question has always been whether this very individualistic, solipsistic, "for the lulz", "what about the memes" masturbatory self-entertainment -- literal wankery if there ever could be such a thing -- could merge with, or at least mesh with, the more predictable and well-established anti-establishmentarianism of the existing white nationalism, white supremacy, neo-Nazi structures.

> The right is very good at playing the long game to get what they want.

Explaining White Nationalism's Anti-statist Bedfellows
The appeal of white nationalism to libertarian anti-statists should not be surprising. After all, nationalist and revanchist movements have historically represented powerful tools for mobilizing secession and other forms of political resistance to “the state.” Their common cause is all the stronger in multicultural, liberal democracies where ethnic grievances can be called upon to portray “the state” less as a political compact between competing groups, and more as tyrannical sovereign infringing on some sub-group’s right to self-determination.

The influential anarcho-capitalist and “enemy of the state” himself, Murray Rothbard, spelled out the paleo-libertarian strategy of “right-wing populism” with perfect candor — more than two decades before the Trump presidential campaign executed it with astonishing success. By harnessing the white working class, Rothbard argued, a Pat Buchanan-style nominee could potentially “short-circuit the dominant media and intellectual elites,” “marginalize Bush conservatives” and create an opening to steal the Republican nomination. Once in power, Rothbard’s crypto-libertarian would then take to “dismantling the existing areas of State and elite rule” by slashing taxes, abolishing welfare, reversing the civil rights act, “unleashing” local police on crooks and vagrants, and enacting an “America First” foreign policy. Sound familiar?
posted by kliuless at 9:33 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


Per Omar Little, when you come at the king, you best not miss.

And just look at Edrogan's Turkey right now for the consequences of missing. We're not all that far from that here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 PM on August 20, 2017 [32 favorites]


Something stinks, that's two military collisions with commercial ships in recent memory.

I can recall at least three fishing trawlers being dragged by British submarines in the last five years OTOH, what's your point?
posted by walrus at 9:41 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think this is the first thing I sort of agree with Trump about: if all confederate statues all come down, Washington, Madison, Jefferson will be the next topics of this conversation. It's true that confederates rebelled to preserve slavery; but: the founding fathers mentioned above established a slave-holding union and most of them did not push back against slavery and did not consider it morally corrupt. It's not unlikely that if other people came for their slaves, some founding fathers would try to secede in order to keep their property.

The real difference is that it was different time and different mood in the country and a lot more abolitionists in the 1850s, and I hope, though I cannot be certain, that most founding fathers would come down on the right side of the conflict.

I'm white and if PoC asked me to defend slave owning founding fathers, I don't think I could. It hasn't been a focal point so far, but I can see that it may become in a generation or sooner.

So Trump's argument makes some sense: he is calling out to republicans and moderates and centrists who hate the Confederates but are uncomfortable with the idea that Washington et al will come under fire in not too distant future.

At times there is method to his madness.
posted by rainy at 9:48 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are so many brain exploding things in the NR article that teasing any one out is like picking the grossest maggot but - I like that the article both tries blame "liberalism" for gangster-rap culture (hahahahaha HOW), and that the author considers this among other things to be on any kind of a par with segregation, and that the right continues to reference gangster-rap culture as if it has any relevance for black people in 2017. Like, hey it's cool that NWA scared the shit out of you crusty old fuckers 30 years ago but maybe update your hip-hop scapegoats. I know we all love 90s hip-hop, but right wing please click another playlist on spotify. You might wind up liking Future, who knows.
posted by supercrayon at 9:49 PM on August 20, 2017 [60 favorites]


Something stinks, that's two military collisions with commercial ships in recent memory.

It's not good. But now that I've seen some pictures of what it's supposedly like in that area it adds some perspective. Here's a picture.

That stresses me out just looking at it. If this is the common level of traffic that's nutz. Still with technology they shouldn't be hitting each other but it's easier to see how little room there is for mistakes.
posted by Jalliah at 10:04 PM on August 20, 2017 [11 favorites]


"These monuments were dedicated to memorialize the courage and sacrifice that these Southern men and, in some cases, women (one of the sculptures in Baltimore pulled down earlier this week was dedicated “to the Confederate women of Maryland”) brought to a cause that they believed at the time deserved the same “last full measure of devotion” that their Northern counterparts brought to theirs. Of course, some of those who paid for and erected these statues also believed that cause had been right, not wrong. (I’ll say more about that in a minute.) But in the final analysis, they are monuments to timeless virtues, not to individuals."

So that's basically an argument for putting up Osama bin Laden and suicide bomber statues, right? It doesn't matter that they were devoted to an evil cause, just that they displayed courage and sacrifice and gave their "last full measure of devotion."

"This is a personal issue for me. My great-great-grandfather fought for the Union in that war and was severely wounded at the Battle of Stone’s River."

Buttface, how is it a personal issue for you? That is literally the definition of an impersonal issue: someone I never met, one of my 16 great-great-grandparents, fought in a war that mobilized literally 1/3 of the population. Is it more personal to you than to the descendants of slaves who would like the names changed? Are Genghis Khan memorials personal to you because you're probably descended from him too?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:04 PM on August 20, 2017 [85 favorites]


I'm white and if PoC asked me to defend slave owning founding fathers, I don't think I could

For all of their flaws, the Founding Fathers created a system that was robust enough to end slavery and give everyone the vote.

The secessionists sought to tear that apart in a bid to make slavery and white supremacy a permanent fixture. I just don't see how a "no monuments to traitors" policy is such a difficult standard to grasp.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:09 PM on August 20, 2017 [54 favorites]


Eh, collisions don't happen every day, but I wouldn't say they're UNcommon. Popular Mechanics has a list (that references a list from NYT) and I can think of at least 2 off the top of my head that aren't on either list.

Yeah, the Strait of Malacca is pretty busy.
posted by ctmf at 10:10 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's not that there aren't problematic aspects to the Founding Fathers (as there are with a great many historical figures) it's that there are nothing but bad reasons to maintain statues to Confederates. "Sure, they wanted to maintain a system of chattel slavery into the forseeable future but at least they were traitors too!" Huh?
posted by Justinian at 10:13 PM on August 20, 2017 [55 favorites]


It's not that there aren't problematic aspects to the Founding Fathers (as there are with a great many historical figures) it's that there are nothing but bad reasons to maintain statues to Confederates.

Right, the ONLY reason we know Jefferson Davis' name is because he was a traitor in defense of slavery. Versus Washington led the Continental Army and then became President, establishing many of the traditions of the US that (until the garbage fire that currently occupies the role) continue to this day. We don't respect Washington for his slave-holding, but despite it.
posted by suelac at 10:20 PM on August 20, 2017 [52 favorites]


Jalliah's picture is of ships at anchor. While they are packed in tight, they are not under way.

To get a picture of how busy those waterways are, this is the live AIS tracker for the Malacca Strait.

Without wishing to continue this derail, there seems to be an issue with basic seamanship skills in the US Navy. Collisions with merchant vessels should never, ever happen.
posted by Combat Wombat at 10:23 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]


I guess I just see Confederacy's slavery a much much bigger issue than secessionism in itself. And on that bigger issue the line between them and founding fathers isn't that clear. Founding fathers surely didn't leave a clear blessing to eventual end to slavery. They created a robust but slave-owning system that was not, at that time, certain to will have ended the slavery. In 1776 a whole lot of people would have expected slavery to continue into 2776.

I'm not coming to one or the other side of the argument, I just think that realistically speaking, idolization of founding fathers was something very important in creating the self-affirming mythology of the new-born country (compared to the old nations of Europe). I just have to say I can see how in 20 or 30 years a whole lot of people will suddenly say, hey, our capital is named after a self-satisfied slave owner?
posted by rainy at 10:29 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]


In 1776 a whole lot of people would have expected slavery to continue into 2776.

I'm not a historian, but I thought most people back then thought slavery was going to just die out. I mean even in the period between 1776 to 1860, slavery itself changed due to the prohibition of importing slaves in 1808 and stuff the Founding Fathers could not foresee like the growth of the textile manufacturing and the invention of the cotton gin.

I guess also people in 1776 who believed slavery to continue to 2776 might be onto something, since it's 2017 and technically the world is still not entirely free from slave labor.
posted by FJT at 10:45 PM on August 20, 2017 [12 favorites]


I guess also people in 1776 who believed slavery to continue to 2776 might be onto something, since it's 2017 and technically the world is still not entirely free from slave labor.
Not only that but the US is still not free of slave labor. People keep overlooking this, seriously, what the fuck does it take to get people to remember that prison slavery is 100% legal in the USA and practiced on an extremely large scale?
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:23 PM on August 20, 2017 [86 favorites]


Black Sabbath joke, I think.

some of my best friends are Black Sabbath.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:29 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]


seriously, what the fuck does it take to get people to remember that prison slavery is 100% legal in the USA and practiced on an extremely large scale?
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:23 PM on August 21 [6 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Former elected officials in prison?
posted by saysthis at 11:34 PM on August 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


If you own a hotel in Dubai, you own slaves. You can bet on that, or you employ a slave owner who runs the slaves in your business. If you own a large hotel in Dubai, you run sex slaves. Slavery is more than rare, and going strong in the US. Part of getting rid of low cost, or no cost health care is enslavement, making people benefits slaves, or outright denying people the care they need to prosper, so their children can flourish and compete in this society.

Maybe the Navy needs to remeasure the area of the oceans, to better track their vessels. They must be on some big network that has not compensated for sea rise, and an increase in lateral area.
posted by Oyéah at 11:55 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's especially freaky that these two collisions have involved Arleigh Burke class destroyers, which are equipped with the Aegis Combat System -- basically full-spectrum radar, combined with sonar and other threat information, funnelled through an advanced command and control computer system. Even if one assumes that in peacetime and in civilian traffic areas the military stuff should not be at hair-trigger alert level*, Aegis is basically the eyes and ears for a ship and every Carrier Battle Group is accompanied by up to two Aegis-equipped Ticonderoga-class cruisers as the decision point for threat assessment in air, surface, and below-surface spaces.

*(Sadly, it was the cruiser Vincennes that had its Aegis system activated when Iran Air 655 flew over the vessel's path amid alert over Iranian helicopter harassment; Vincennes fired two surface-to-air missiles, one of which destroyed the airliner.)

I mean, if anything should be able to figure out that there's an oil tanker in its way, it would be an Aegis-equipped ship. Last year, in one of the few combat activations in the system's history, it intercepted a missile shot from Yemen at the USS Mason. So what the heck? It's like a seeing-eye dog bolted into traffic.
posted by dhartung at 12:23 AM on August 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's especially freaky that these two collisions have involved Arleigh Burke class destroyers, which are equipped with the Aegis Combat System -- basically full-spectrum radar, combined with sonar and other threat information, funnelled through an advanced command and control computer system.

Hopefully they don't still run on Windows NT.
posted by scalefree at 12:43 AM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


beat me to it scalefree!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:07 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


On the issue of Confederate memorials, someone on social media put it in a way I found helpful : There's a difference between celebrating a flawed individual and celebrating an individual's flaws.
posted by bardophile at 1:32 AM on August 21, 2017 [59 favorites]


In 1776 a whole lot of people would have expected slavery to continue into 2776.

This isn't true.

American Slavery prior to the Revolutionary War produced a surprisingly diverse range of agricultural goods, but there really wasn't a cash-crop. Long Staple Cotton was produced in the coastal areas of the American south, but was geographically limited. Short Staple Cotton, which could be grown throughout the South, wasn't viable because it was so difficult to process. The Cotton Gin made that possible, and Western settlement and expansion provided a constant supply of fresh soil because cotton farming is relatively resource expensive, exhausting the dirt that it's grown in. Couple with industrial textile production in England and the growth of transportation and finance in the American North and you cement slave labor in the American economy.

A number of people legitimately did think slavery would die out simply from being unprofitable.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:28 AM on August 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, I don't think this thread can handle a full-fledged discussion/debate of the American (and global) history of slavery. Once again, this is meant to be a space to discuss news of current presidency and directly related, and not a free-form Discuss/Argue All The Things Go Nuts Area. If there isn't something exciting enough happening right now, maybe time to take a short break; I'm sure things will pick up.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:57 AM on August 21, 2017 [21 favorites]


those jerks who say he's a tacky, jumped-up, dumb-as-a-rock wastrel of a wealthy man's son and nothing more

must have caught an accidental glimpse of the lobby of Trump Tower.

And Jobs said Microsoft had no taste.
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 AM on August 21, 2017


Well well, look what got people expelled from the Senate
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:53 AM on August 21, 2017




U.S. scales back visa services in Russia after Putin cuts its staff
The U.S. embassy in Russia said on Monday the move had forced it to rethink its visa operations and that it was suspending all non-immigrant visa operations across Russia on Aug. 23.

It said services would be resumed on Sept. 1, but would be offered "on a greatly reduced scale." It would be cancelling an unspecified number of scheduled appointments and asking applicants to reschedule, it said in a statement.
posted by prefpara at 4:40 AM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


> This is difficult stuff to agree with, even for Theresa May, whose mouth spouts so much horseshit you’d think her anus gobbled oats.

*awed silence*
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:41 AM on August 21, 2017 [133 favorites]


From a historical point of view, it’s almost convincing, even though what American blacks suffered under segregation was nothing compared to what liberalism has inflicted on them since the 1950s.

Oh boy. So that's the tack they're going with: "black people had it so much better back then." This helps explain why Rick [ugh] Santorum was on some Sunday show with another guy, whitesplaining to the other, incidentally black, panelists that there is no such thing as systemic racism. It's just a figment! Like the whole Nazi thing just gave them yet another chance to up the volume on all the standard mainstream GOP white supremacy.

Man, I thought I'd be able to go the rest of my life without ever again seeing Rick [ugh] Santorum on TV. Fuck you, 2017.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 AM on August 21, 2017 [15 favorites]


That's the problem with Santorum. You think you've cleared up the problem completely, but there's always one more blotch just out of reach.
posted by delfin at 4:58 AM on August 21, 2017 [37 favorites]


That's the problem with Santorum. You think you've cleared up the problem completely, but there's always one more blotch just out of reach.

It's like you're wiping a permanent marker.
posted by Talez at 5:59 AM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


Secret Service depletes funds to pay agents because of Trump's frequent travel, large family

The USSS is going broke funneling money into Trump's coffers.

Could you imagine if Obama did this?
posted by Talez at 6:02 AM on August 21, 2017 [94 favorites]


I can recall at least three fishing trawlers being dragged by British submarines in the last five years OTOH, what's your point?

Don't point to the British Navy as a competence comparison. They have had nuke subs run aground and also had an active shooter situation onboard. They make the recent US navy screwups seem incredibly minor.

The real issues seems to be that there is an across the world degredation in competence for some reason.
posted by srboisvert at 6:05 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


I've been following this USSS story closely because I don't know how the US Government is getting away with this. How the hell can they not pay people for their work!? How is this legal? Talk about unfunded mandates.
posted by xyzzy at 6:08 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


The USSS problems go back several years now, the Trump situation just pushed the wreck over the cliff. Bad leadership, understaffed, many agents fleeing the agency, no money.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:13 AM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


> The Secret Service has spent some $60,000 on golf cart rentals alone this year to protect Trump at both Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster.

So Trump's getting paid for the use of the golf carts, but the people actually using the golf carts while doing their duty to protect him aren't, in part because the money that would otherwise be used to pay them is going to Trump in the form of golf cart rentals. Not even the shitty owner of the shitty burger joint I worked at when I was in school would have tried to pull shitty shit like that.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:17 AM on August 21, 2017 [81 favorites]


Judge Smails might've.
posted by delfin at 6:22 AM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


How many do they need at a time and why are they renting them? They don't get their cars from Avis. Golf carts cost around $5K.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:32 AM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


Since most people don't click through, the NR piece is so much worse than you'd think from that headline. And given the headline that's saying something.

However, in a switch from the usual state of things, the comments aren't bad.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:32 AM on August 21, 2017


Golf carts cost you $5k. Can you imagine if Boeing got the contract? Stealth-equipped supercarts with nuclear generators are not cheap.
posted by spitbull at 6:34 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Why is the secret service protecting the spawn of 45? Reagan's adult kids didn't get SS protection, in fact, I don't think any president has had this many auxiliary family protection, especially for shit like animal murder trips and trips to enrich the sitting president. Fuck the extended family.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:41 AM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


the money that would otherwise be used to pay them is going to Trump in the form of golf cart rentals

That's not exactly it in this situation, it seems. According to TFA the problem is the Federal employee pay cap (which is a matter of law -- I'm not sure if it's agency specific or linked to GS levels or what): the USSS has become such a fucked up mess that they're having trouble retaining agents and hiring agents and so too few people are facing a need for more agent-hours. They've hit the pay/overtime limit and need Congress to authorize exceeding the cap to pay those people for the time they've worked -- and will need to continue to work -- until they can find more people.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:43 AM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


Why is the secret service protecting the spawn of 45? Reagan's adult kids didn't get SS protection

They did, except for Ron during the second term.
posted by Etrigan at 6:46 AM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


No, there's a law. The USSS offers protection to the President's immediate family.
posted by xyzzy at 6:47 AM on August 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's the entire administration pulling this security detail scam, see DeVos' and Pruitt's unprecedented usage of security details. They're bullies that are afraid of even the slightest bit of confrontation, and have no qualms about using tax dollars to wall themselves off from the public that they should be serving.
posted by strange chain at 6:49 AM on August 21, 2017 [24 favorites]




There is a law. However, as codified it's an authorization - not a mandate. There are no 'shalls.'

On the other hand, who's the ultimate boss of the USSS (part of DHS) in deciding how much of the authorized protection to offer?

Yep.

18 U.S. Code § 3056 - Powers, authorities, and duties of United States Secret Service
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:00 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yes. That's why I said "offered." It's an offer that can be declined. (There might be an exception if there's a known, specific threat, but I'm not positive about that.)
posted by xyzzy at 7:09 AM on August 21, 2017


History tells us that neglecting and/or disrespecting one's Praetorian Guard isn't a super great idea.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:09 AM on August 21, 2017 [41 favorites]


As an LEO agency, I strongly suspect that the USSS is about 60-70% in the tank for Trump.
posted by xyzzy at 7:12 AM on August 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


That's why I said "offered." It's an offer that can be declined.

Right. But -- as worded -- it would appear that the head of DHS (and ultimately the President) determines who, of the authorized recipients, gets the offer of protection.

So in theory more golf cart rental money could be made available, and agent-hour demand reduced, by stripping protection from say......the Clintons. Or foreign delegations whose countries lack Trump hotel projects.

I think that's probably a goose-step too far even for this gazebo of scumbags, but who knows.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:30 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Clinton treated USSS agents like friends. Bush treated them w great respect. Obama, like family. Trump treats them like servants."

Conservatives can be expected to have a more hierarchical model of social relations. However, even then, they often leaven it with norms of politeness, that serve to mask the Hobbesian truth of power and hierarchy. Trump doesn't even bother with this: anything over a brutish mobster's view of “respect” and “loyalty” is the most superficial of tat; a layer of gold plating, or a plaque commemorating a fake historical event.
posted by acb at 7:31 AM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


The good news is that job satisfaction for USSS employees can only get better, the agency ranked 305th out of 305 in the 2016 Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey.
posted by peeedro at 7:33 AM on August 21, 2017 [20 favorites]


President Tweeter has complained about the Fake News several times this am already. We've had Lyin' Ted and Crooked Hillary. What about Whining Donny?
posted by kerf at 7:39 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Daniel W. Drezner, WaPo: I'll believe that Trump is growing into the presidency when his staff stops talking about him like a toddler.

Drezner has been tweeting that line, along with sourced examples, since April. Because they're difficult to find on Twitter, he is now updating this story. There are 71 entries to date.
For those of you eager to contribute to the Toddler-in-Chief thread, here are my stringent criteria for inclusion:
  1. The example has to be sourced from an ally of Trump. It doesn’t matter if Democrats or pundits describe the president as having the emotional maturity of a toddler. That’s just partisan politics or conventional wisdom. No, what makes these stories stand out is that these descriptions are coming from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill in the cabinet or loyal treaty allies or — most often — from within Trump’s own White House staff. The point is, this is how Trump’s most trusted advisers view Trump.

  2. The example has to come from a mainstream media news source. No Infowars or RT here, thank you very much.

  3. Keep repeats to a minimum. Sometimes there’s a big enough event such that multiple tick-tocks appear, and sometimes they offer up the same anecdote or description. I have tried not to add echoes to a single story onto the thread, although sometimes enough new information appears to merit inclusion.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:41 AM on August 21, 2017 [25 favorites]


David Corn: Trump Official Once Praised a Defender of Holocaust Deniers
Earlier this year, President Donald Trump appointed Teresa Manning, a leading anti-abortion activist, to be a deputy assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services. The pick was controversial because Manning, formerly a legislative analyst at the conservative Family Research Council and a lobbyist for the National Right to Life Committee, would be in charge of family planning policy, even though she has questioned the efficacy of contraception in preventing pregnancy and has said government should not play a role in family planning. But there was one item in her résumé that did not receive attention: She had once praised a defender of Holocaust deniers.
[...]
In her flattering introduction of [Joe] Sobran, Manning neglected to mention that a few months earlier, in June 2002, he was a speaker at the 14th annual convention of the Institute for Historical Review. This is how the Southern Poverty Law Center has described the group: “Founded in 1978 by Willis Carto, a longtime anti-Semite, the Institute for Historical Review (IHR) is a pseudo-academic organization that claims to seek ‘truth and accuracy in history,’ but whose real purpose is to promote Holocaust denial and defend Nazism.”
posted by zombieflanders at 7:41 AM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is Lyin', Crooked, Whining Donny too much?
posted by Rykey at 7:42 AM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


He is too much, yes.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:44 AM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush are still 'but Clinton was worse'-ing on Twitter. Keep bothsidesing, journalists, because history will judge you just as responsible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:51 AM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


chris24: Pastor Mark Burns on with Joy Reid just said that Trump was right in saying both sides, that he has to be the president for all people, not just one side, unless we want to change our constitution.

So there's that.


And here's this, a dark reminder: The Fairness Doctrine lasted from 1949 to 1987, under Ronald Reagan's presidency. Yet so many news outlets that Trump gleefully calls Fake strive so fucking hard to present a "fair and balanced" take on topics that they spread terrible ideas as semi-normal.

They have no obligation to give airtime to these assholes, but they do. Trump is an extension of the ratings game, or the need for "balance" or whatever bullshit reasoning that news orgs have for airing and publishing people who are happily shifting the scope of "normal" hard to the right.

Meanwhile, Fox News and other conservative outlets feel no such obligation. So which way does the country slide? Hmm...
posted by filthy light thief at 7:51 AM on August 21, 2017 [33 favorites]


He is too much, yes.

Too little, you mean?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:53 AM on August 21, 2017


I'll believe that Trump is growing into the presidency

I realize there's an adjustment period for every new president, but for Trump it's less like growing into the lead role in a movie as a seasoned actor, and more like growing into 40-inch-waist pants as a baby.
posted by Rykey at 7:56 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maggie Haberman is taking on all comers now defending the NYT emails coverage, so, remember that next time she gets the great Trump scoop. She's not in the journalism business, she's in the Maggie Haberman self absolving and promotion business.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:01 AM on August 21, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush are still 'but Clinton was worse'-ing on Twitter. Keep bothsidesing, journalists, because history will judge you just as responsible.

Yeah, I used to follow them both on Twitter and despite some of the good work they've put out this year I had to unfollow them. The reflexive bothsidesism, Clinton hate, and inability to even consider that they might have done anything at all to lead to Trump's win, much less take any smidge of responsibility for it, was too much.

Aww, so sorry you're so bitter and defensive that you'll go down as one of the ones partly responsible for this disaster. Deal with it. Everybody else has to.
posted by chris24 at 8:02 AM on August 21, 2017 [22 favorites]


what American blacks suffered under segregation was nothing compared to what liberalism has inflicted on them since the 1950s, as it destroyed their families

My wife watches genealogy shows like Who Do You Think You Are? and Finding Your Roots, and nearly every time a black person is on they can follow their genealogy back a couple of generations until slavery and then they have no way to follow their lineage further because so many families were shattered and separated.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:04 AM on August 21, 2017 [58 favorites]


Teresa Manning, a leading anti-abortion activist

I misread that as "a leading anti-abolition activist" and thought fuck, it's 2017, I guess we have those.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:04 AM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


With this recent attack on birth control, someone should be featured on news shows who can do the deadpan of Buck Henry and declare they are happy with the birth control ban because it promotes homosexuality.

Homosexuality: the natural, one hundred percent effective way of preventing pregnancy.

(Back in the 60s Buck Henry got on TV shows pretending to be part of a conservative group promoting clothes on animals because they were disgusted by naked animals.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:11 AM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


When you focus on the traits of the subculture and why they align one way or another, it opens up the question of what Republicans share with racists such that their votes are reliable. That is, you can agree that not all Republicans are racist, but why are all racists Republican?
posted by rhizome at 9:06 PM on August 20 [27 favorites +] [!]

I've been trying to forget about this since it posted last night. I have been hoping someone else would say something. I have been telling myself to breathe deeply and not be shrill or pushy. I can't. I can't forget it and I can't be quiet about this. And I can't pretend that the word 'racist' was meant as a shorthand for violent anti-Semitic, anti Black fascists.

Racists are not all republicans. In fact, lots of racist people show up at counter protests. Racism isn't an all or nothing thing. Racism includes unexamined implicit bias. Racism also includes more obvious thoughts like, 'of course people of color shouldn't be discriminated against but they're not as motivated/I don't want my daughter to date a black man/Asians are taking all the spots at good schools/I assume anyone who speaks Spanish is from Mexico.'

A lot of liberal people would say some or all of those things aren't racist.

A lot of progressives say they want 'a better world for everyone' and mean 'keep the distance between us...make things at least that much easier for me too.'

This is hard to admit and painful to discuss. White peoples benefit from systemic racism and as Chris Newman, a farmer in Charlottesvillesaid in MAY after a protest there there “It isn’t Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black,” Newman wrote. “It’s nervous White women in yoga pants with ‘I’m with her’ and ‘Coexist’ stickers on their German SUVs.” He made a whole Facebook post about his experience living and working in Charlottesville. He owns a farm there. This impacts his choices about where to lease land. He passes up good soil and reasonable rents to avoid unnecessary interactions with the police.

White people of all political stripes are still making assumptions about which bodies belong in which spaces. The difference, to my eyes, is that the far right racists vocally support a large scale state solution, death and deportation. White ladies in yoga pants quietly call the police and don't acknowledge themselves to be invoking the state. The far right wants people removed from the country. White ladies in yoga pants 'just' want people out of the neighborhood. They 'just' want black peoples hair to 'look professional.' They 'just' want to send their kids to a school that 'feels safe.'

That doesn't feel very different to me when it's written out like this. Sure, it's a difference of degree. But that doesn't make policing other people's hair/job choice/school accessibility/pedestrian route not racist. And to be clear, I'm not saying we have to take our attention away from Richard Spencer's cowardly antics. I AM saying we have to look at ourselves. So many people treated trump as a joke, crowed that Hillary had it in the bag, and denied the hugeness of the problem of American exceptionalism and racism in shaping the election. Discounting 'those people' as racists and bigots and uneducated and too far gone to save, a lot of energy was spent ignoring racist folks who could vote for a black president (that old saw about 'some of my best friends are black') but were galled to imagine/see that while their own wages were stagnating or declining and their health insurance premiums were increasing, the lives of some people of color were improving. So they stayed home on Election Day, or voted for trump who was often not even bothering to dog whistle while promising to make things better for white folks.

Not all racists are republicans. If we are white we are likely, very very likely, to have unexamined biases that are racist. We have to fight this within ourselves and we have to figure out how to keep white ladies in yoga pants from using their (our, I'm a white cis woman) power to comfort ourselves when we see people who 'aren't like us' or 'don't fit in here.' We have to say loudly that we don't want this done in our names.
posted by bilabial at 8:12 AM on August 21, 2017 [100 favorites]


Latest out of the 2017 writers' room:

March: New Interior head lifts lead ammunition ban in nod to hunters

August: Kiski the bald eagle, who aided recovery of species in Pa., succumbs to lead poisoning

The lead ammo ban was only in place on federal lands, so it's not like Trump literally killed this bird himself, but the symbolic value is just too perfect to go unnoticed.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:13 AM on August 21, 2017 [62 favorites]


Which was also done admirably by Sam the Eagle on the Muppet Show, who was embarrassed that he was naked on camera.
posted by Melismata at 8:13 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


I had also unfollowed Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush for the same reasons a while back but I've since followed them again. It's been a while since they've done one of these 'butter email hate mail rebuttal' threads. It's infuriating and I don't think they'll ever get it.
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:39 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


T.D. Strange: Charlottesville Was a Preview of the Future of the Republican Party
This is the state of the GOP leadership pipeline.


Horrifying, except Charlottesville also saw a lot of them revealed as horrible people, just like the New Hampshire "red pill" founding Republican, who resigned when he came under public scrutiny. The article even touches on some of that:
Among those white nationalists was James Allsup, a speaker at the rally, who was also the president of the Washington State University College Republicans, until his resignation this week.
Oh, I know another one - Jason Kessler, "Unite the Right" organizer, was chased off from a press event by protesters and hecklers, and Christopher "ready for violence" Cantwell was scared about possible prison time after Charlottesville. See a pattern? Yes, if gamergate/MRA type assholes can hide well enough to avoid broad public scrutiny, they're safe. But if you expose them as the deplorable individuals they are, the good people of the world overwhelm them and they run away. They had to come together from all around the country to rally and kill in Charlottesville, but in Boston they were overwhelmed by counter-protesters.

The future of the GOP? Not if they can't keep their true, hateful ideas off the public internet.

Anyway, those assholes are already in power in local politics, and they are being booted just as fast as they're being identified. Doña Ana Republican Party Chairman Roman Jimenez is now the former chairman after his awful Facebook posts were more widely published. Bonus facts: the former New Mexico State trooper (!) who served on NM governor Susana Martinez’ security detail (!!) and apparently now works for a private security firm (!!!) , International Protection Services, inc. That firm is a part of Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s ICE “IMAGE” partners, standing for: “ICE Mutual Agreement Between Government and Employers.” (!!!!)

No word if he's still employed by IPS, or works with ICE.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 AM on August 21, 2017 [26 favorites]


Some Liberty University Grads Are Returning Their Diplomas To Protest Trump (NPR, Aug. 20, 2017)
A group of alumni from one of the country's most influential evangelical Christian universities is condemning their school's president for his continued alignment with President Trump.

A small but growing number of Liberty University graduates are preparing to return diplomas to their school. The graduates are protesting university President Jerry Falwell Jr.'s ongoing support for Trump. They began organizing after Trump's divisive remarks about the deadly white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Va.

Chris Gaumer, a former Student Government Association president and 2006 graduate, said it was a simple decision.

"I'm sending my diploma back because the president of the United States is defending Nazis and white supremacists," Gaumer said. "And in defending the president's comments, Jerry Falwell Jr. is making himself and, it seems to me, the university he represents, complicit."
It's awful that someone had to be killed protesting a white power rally to make it clear for people Trump is an awful, deplorable person and wholly unfit to be president of the United States, but I'm glad the outrage hasn't died down and that people continue to act, react, and publicize their actions, intentions and messages.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:02 AM on August 21, 2017 [34 favorites]


Black farmer calls out liberal racism

“There’s a difference between confronting racists and confronting racism.”

Not a bad point.
posted by jgirl at 9:03 AM on August 21, 2017 [33 favorites]


So Trump's getting paid for the use of the golf carts, but the people actually using the golf carts while doing their duty to protect him aren't, in part because the money that would otherwise be used to pay them is going to Trump in the form of golf cart rentals.

I distribute my plum tomatoes in markets all over Pianosa under an assumed name so that Colonel Cathcart and Colonel Korn can buy them up from me under their assumed names at four cents apiece and sell them back to me the next day at five cents apiece. They make a profit of one cent apiece, I make a profit of three and a half cents apiece, and everybody comes out ahead.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'd be fine with flipping it back to "not all racists are Republicans, but all Republicans are racist." Denying that racism exists outside the GOP, and that it can be just as insidious coming from the left as it is coming from the right, is wrong-headed. It should be confronted, and it should be challenged, just as we would in any other situation.

The difference is that the current GOP platform is almost entirely built on racism and racist foundations (where it's not built on misogyny, anti-LGBTQ violence, Islamophobia, and other forms of bigotry), if not outright white supremacy. Their economic policies are racist and perpetuate white supremacy, their social and cultural policies are racist and perpetuate white supremacy, etc. Hell, large parts of the conservative movement and ideology in general are in the same boat, no matter the political party affiliation or lack thereof. I know that might give some people the sads, but it's the truth.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:18 AM on August 21, 2017 [26 favorites]


Kelli Ward's SuperPAC received 300 grand from the Mercers.

They're going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at Flake for the primary.
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


it's not like Trump literally killed this bird himself

god knows he's not one to hold a grudge
posted by flabdablet at 9:33 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Of course as awful shit gets normalised they are less likely to resign as a result of it being exposed, and as Trump shows just going with it actually works quite well for them.

The base loves nazi shit, the "moderates" will tolerate it and the media will go out of its way to cover it up.
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


CNN's K-File: Trump nominee Sam Clovis: 'As far as we know' homosexuality's a choice, 'logical' LGBT protections could lead to legalization of pedophilia
Clovis made the comments between 2012 and 2014 in his capacity as a talk radio host, political activist, and briefly as a candidate for US Senate in Iowa. His nomination has drawn criticism from Senate Democrats, who argue his lack of scientific background makes him unqualified for the USDA post overseeing science.

Clovis has repeatedly argued that the science on homosexuality is unsettled and that "LGBT behavior" is a choice. The American Psychological Association has said that while there is no scientific consensus on the causes of sexual orientation, "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."
[...]
Clovis, whose background and views are strongly rooted in the politics of conservative talk radio, made most of his remarks in the context of discussing his belief LGBT people should not be given protections under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. He says he believed that if LGBT people got such protections, pastors wouldn't be allowed to preach against the "aberration" that "alternative lifestyles" were to church doctrine.

Writing in an op-ed for the local conservative blog Iowa Republican in April 2011, Clovis argued science of being LGBT was unsettled and if being gay was genetic, then other people genetically-disposed like left-handed people should receive constitutional protections as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:50 AM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


“There’s a difference between confronting racists and confronting racism.”
Yeah. I don't live in CVille but I visit VA quite a bit, and the last time I was in CVille my queer companion got called a "fa**ot" by some rando in the street. I was taken aback and said, "Uh, wtf." My companion said, "Nice, huh? Not the first time, won't be the last." So I was not terribly convinced by the lovely candlelit unity rally around the statue of Thomas Jefferson at UVA and all the "this isn't us" rhetoric. If you can't wear a smart outfit without being called a slur in the street in broad daylight in the middle of CVille, I'm not at all surprised to hear that farming while black might be difficult in Albemarle County.
posted by xyzzy at 10:00 AM on August 21, 2017 [23 favorites]


He says he believed that if LGBT people got such protections, pastors wouldn't be allowed to preach against the "aberration" that "alternative lifestyles" were to church doctrine.

Yeah, well. They shouldn't be preaching that anyway, so, score.

Clovis argued science of being LGBT was unsettled and if being gay was genetic, then other people genetically-disposed like left-handed people should receive constitutional protections as well.

Okay, cool, they should have. What's the problem there? I mean, to my knowledge, it's not nearly as big an issue of discrimination, and that's why it's not in the limelight, but why would it be such a problem to grant them protection if they are being discriminated against?
posted by Imperfect at 10:18 AM on August 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yeah, I'm pretty sure if people were getting denied jobs because they write with the "wrong" hand, or had government employees refuse to recognize their marriages, or got fucking murdered because somebody saw them pick up a pen, we would consider that a problem.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:22 AM on August 21, 2017 [67 favorites]


A must read eulogy by General Kelly, just 4 days after his son was killed in action

This was tweeted last night by Maggie Haberman (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know ...) who suggested reading it and then rewatching Kelly's body language at the Tuesday presser.

Replies to the tweet generally felt that Kelly saw himself as the two Marines and Trump as the truck. I'm not convinced, but I'd like to think that. Replies also pointed out that he had no problem with deportations and the Muslim ban. And that as a soldier who does his duty, he's not going to resign.

Others ripped on him in their replies for the "use [the sword] on the press" remark. I was a comms staffer and a reporter, and that didn't really get to me. Standard D.C. har-har, at best. Key words: At best.
posted by jgirl at 10:22 AM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


This afternoon I'm throwing in a bit of a non sequitur, but I think it's a timely example of how so many people in general only skim the surface, and don't educate themselves in more detail on anything. Because I wish I could somehow earn $100 for every person in Michigan today who, in a couple hours from this posting, will say, "Well THAT (eclipse) wasn't that big a deal."

They do not understand we are not in the path of the totality. They've only seen whatever idiot TV station or newspaper they follow get all excited about it. (Sound familiar?)

And I wish I could joke it's tRump voters. Except here's another example of being awfully ill-informed on the Left: Over the weekend I saw a post on twitter referring to a statue of Lincoln "who freed the slaves" having been desecrated. Some people rightly jumped in to discuss Lincoln's complex attitudes towards black people, and the varied reasons for the Civil War.

But others - and I wish I could say they were Russbots trying to make the Left look laughable - responded with, "No, the slaves freed themselves through rebellions," and "But HE OWNED SLAVES." (When there's so much misinformation out there then you start doubting yourself - is there some gap in my education WRT to there being slaves at the WH or something?)
posted by NorthernLite at 10:31 AM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


> the money that would otherwise be used to pay them is going to Trump in the form of golf cart rentals

That's not exactly it in this situation, it seems.


Thanks for the clarification. One way or another, though, there's enough money to pay the boss, but not enough to adequately pay the workers. Seems indicative of larger issues in a way I can't quite put my finger on...
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:45 AM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think it was Jeet Heer on Twitter this weekend who was pointing out that Dinesh D'Souza and other conservative thought leaders cut their teeth in the pro-Apartheid movement among college Republicans. We will be seeing these Nazis for decades.
posted by OmieWise at 11:03 AM on August 21, 2017 [35 favorites]


He says he believed that if LGBT people got such protections, pastors wouldn't be allowed to preach against the "aberration" that "alternative lifestyles" were to church doctrine.

Okay, hold it right there for a moment.

Does the 14th Amendment prevent private groups, including churches, from declaring that women are inherently inferior? Or people of color? Or people who hold nonconcordant beliefs to their own? Or left-handed Eskimo albino lesbian midgets? Of course it fucking doesn't. If it did _we wouldn't be dealing with Nazi rallies right now_.

Does it allow them to openly discriminate against these groups in the public square? ...in practice, it depends on the public square. Which is more than a little shameful. But the answer should be no -- you are American first and religious second -under the law-. Your private beliefs/actions and your citizenship/rights/obligations are on different paths.

So when the 14th says:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

There it is. "My religion says that this person ISN'T A REAL PERSON and therefore I should not be obligated to treat him/her as human like me." That's what it boils down to; my God gets to decide who is socially and legally allowable _even for those who don't believe in him_. It's the year 2017 and we are _still_ fighting this mentality.
posted by delfin at 11:15 AM on August 21, 2017 [38 favorites]


The Card Cheat: One way or another, though, there's enough money to pay the boss, but not enough to adequately pay the workers.

Except the boss chose to play so much golf and have so many outings in unsecure locations as to stress the budget of the Secret Service, just as he chose to allow his kids to travel around the world on business trips where security personnel are used as a backdrop to look important, and he chose to allow his family to have another vacation, where 100 agents escorted the family on a ski trip.

These are the choices he made, to exceed the budget for the secret service half way through the year. He's a terrible businessman for the presidency, in that he has fun spending other people's money, namely the funds of the tax payers, his "clients" if you will.

I only wish we could reject this invoice and request that his work tasks align with the contract that he signed to take on this job. /public servant who has many gripes about consultant services
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on August 21, 2017 [59 favorites]


He says he believed that if LGBT people got such protections, pastors wouldn't be allowed to preach against the "aberration" that "alternative lifestyles" were to church doctrine.


Is he one of the 'you must respect history' mob? Because if so, let's have a look at church history back through the ages, and let's find what 'aberrations' got preached against - and much, much worse - that would now get a pastor in the hottest of hot water.

Church doctrine is only above the law of the land in a theocracy. If he wants a theocracy, then he should be honest about it, not falsely represent his beliefs in bad logic and worse evidence.

I hate the bigotry and the smug self-satisfaction and the demeaning superiority, and I hate the traduction of noble ideals even more but above everything else I hate the hypocrisy.

Jesus had a hell of a lot more to say about hypocrisy than homosexuality. He knew what an aberration looks like.
posted by Devonian at 11:26 AM on August 21, 2017 [20 favorites]


It's the year 2017 and we are _still_ fighting this mentality.

There are some minor wins and progress. In this whole CVille dumpster fire - who's trotting out "but the Bible says this about slaves" and then joins that to justify their actions?

Metafilter: Of the outrages that happen daily, THAT has not been one of 'em.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:35 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Our President, folks. Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron. As he did this, someone in a crowd of aides below shouted "Don't look." Here's video.
posted by yasaman at 12:00 PM on August 21, 2017 [77 favorites]


Trump is a moron, sure, but it's not like you go instantly blind when you look at the sun.
posted by Justinian at 12:04 PM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm surprised he hasn't rage tweeted the moon. It's getting an awful lot of unearned attention today.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:04 PM on August 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron.

On the upside, this is the first time anything about that man has made me laugh.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:04 PM on August 21, 2017 [19 favorites]


Because OF COURSE he did.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [16 favorites]


Now I have The Streak in my head.

DON'T LOOK, ETHEL... Too late.
posted by delfin at 12:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's funny that he chooses left handedness as the stupid counter example... I suppose he forgets that the Church relatively recently was happy to teach that to be left handed was to be in league with Satan. My Aunt was forced to write with her right hand by Nuns who quite literally tied her left hand behind her back.
posted by cirhosis at 12:07 PM on August 21, 2017 [47 favorites]


Total Eclipse of the Brain
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:12 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Bah, you'll just have a slight headache. Ask me how I know.
posted by Justinian at 12:13 PM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


Yeah, a glimpse of a second or two is harmless. Must have done it a hundred times in my life, and I have excellent vision.
posted by Coventry at 12:16 PM on August 21, 2017


About the stupid statues, if these fuckers are so obsessed with history and heritage and admiring folks/eras that other people find upsetting and painful, we should just put a statue of General Sherman holding a lighter on every street corner in the South, see how they like that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:16 PM on August 21, 2017 [31 favorites]


yasaman: Our President, folks. Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron.

Well, that 'blind trust' thing may be happening after all!
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:17 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


Well, that 'blind trust' thing may be happening after all!

It'll lower the shit out of his personal income taxes
posted by infinitewindow at 12:22 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think "blind trust" refers to the rationale for the 25-30% floor in his polls.
posted by darkstar at 12:25 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Here's video

The worst thing about that video is that he never interacts with Barron, like, at all. Never touches him. Never looks at him. Never acknowledges him. I contrast that with the many, many families I see in our local park enjoying the eclipse together, parents anxious to share the moment with their children.

In summary: Christ, what an asshole.
posted by anastasiav at 12:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [104 favorites]


He must know that Tintin book about the eclipse. Tintin also looks right up, pretending that he is arguing with the gods. Which confirms what I always thought, that he thinks he's a cartoon character.
posted by Namlit at 12:28 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Damn, it's too bad he didn't announce his intention to look directly at the eclipse because screw what those eggheads say before it happened, all the working towards the fuhrer types would have followed right along complete with YouTube videos where they try to look as long as possible as a fuck you to all us liberal pansies.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:28 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


Our President, folks. Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron. As he did this, someone in a crowd of aides below shouted "Don't look."

سود‏ @NasMaraj
No one should look directly at the eclipse with their bare eyes except for our great leader Trump. He deserves to see it in its full glory.
posted by standardasparagus at 12:33 PM on August 21, 2017 [29 favorites]


I don't know what he's hinting at, but Shaun King has something big happening in about an hour.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 12:37 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Would Obama look directly at the eclipse?"
"No sir, Mr. President."
"Well ok then!"
posted by mrjohnmuller at 12:37 PM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


Our President, folks. Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron. As he did this, someone in a crowd of aides below shouted "Don't look."

When there was a solar eclipse in '79, us kiddies were all locked in the kindergarten room with the curtains drawn tight, because they knew they couldn't trust us not to do that one thing we were told not to do.

The Oval Office could use my old kindergarten teachers is what I guess I'm saying.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:38 PM on August 21, 2017 [24 favorites]



I don't know what he's hinting at, but Shaun King has something big happening in about an hour.


He earlier posted a picture of Gary Webb, so maybe something to do with his work on the CIA/cocaine connection. My experience in the past when a popular journalist teases a big story on Twitter is that it's usually somewhat underwhelming.
posted by cell divide at 12:41 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


So this speech tonight is going to have to be incredibly angry bluster, right? More than usual I mean. He's got no policy besides, reportedly, a few thousand more troops, a reversal of basically his only consistent foreign policy position. And it's going to come after he spends the afternoon watching people mock him on cable news for looking at the sun (is this where I say I just looked at the sun too? During totality. And it was awesome. /bragging). He's going to be miserable and all he's got to make up for the lack of anything real to say, as always, is his absolute worst impulses. And when the subject involves Muslims...

Bonus thought: I bet Joe Biden has incredibly cool custom-made eclipse glasses.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]



When there was a solar eclipse in '79, us kiddies were all locked in the kindergarten room with the curtains drawn tight, because they knew they couldn't trust us not to do that one thing we were told not to do.


If they were clever, they would have allowed a single pinhole of light, that way the entire room would become a camera obscura, and you could all watch the eclipse in safety.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:42 PM on August 21, 2017 [21 favorites]


Someone on the side of the street was kind enough to let me take a look through their camera obscura box at the height of the eclipse. It was cool. I must have seen over a hundred people with them while I was walking.
posted by Coventry at 12:47 PM on August 21, 2017


سود‏ @NasMaraj
No one should look directly at the eclipse with their bare eyes except for our great leader Trump. He deserves to see it in its full glory.


"Even though he's from Hawaii, Obama has never had the courage to jump into Mauna Loa, Mr. President."
posted by leotrotsky at 12:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [32 favorites]


If they were clever, they would have allowed a single pinhole of light, that way the entire room would become a camera obscura, and you could all watch the eclipse in safety.

I walked out of my office @ 2:30 Eastern Time, rummaged through the recycling bin until I found some newspaper. Poked a hole through one sheet. Focused it on the 2nd sheet, and watched our 65% occlusion, then tossed it back in the recycling bin, and commuted home.

XKCD #54 FTW!
posted by mikelieman at 12:49 PM on August 21, 2017 [21 favorites]


I can't believe I'm about to say "in his defense" about our President, but...it's real easy to get caught up in the "omigod this is cool" vibe and forget everything you've been told about not looking directly at it. I had a set of glasses with me and I sstill was having a hard time remembering to put them on because I was caught up in "something cool is happening right over my head I wanna loooooooook".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


To be fair to Donald Trump, pee tape
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:59 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


I mean, cool eclipse
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:59 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


It'd be more accurate if the Republican Party suddenly announced that looking at an eclipse is great for your eyes, that science disagrees about whether it's bad, and claiming that it's bad is just liberal fake news.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:00 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


.it's real easy to get caught up in the "omigod this is cool"

I'm not disagreeing with the principle but I don't think he's ever once thought "omigod this is cool" about anything. I don't think he has the capacity. He just felt like doing it so he did, like sometimes my cat doesn't put her tongue back in her mouth.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:01 PM on August 21, 2017 [37 favorites]


We know perfectly well that he thought sitting in the big truck was cool. They took photos!
posted by Autumnheart at 1:02 PM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


It'd be more accurate if the Republican Party suddenly announced that looking at an eclipse is great for your eyes, that science disagrees about whether it's bad, and claiming that it's bad is just liberal fake news.

The strong, calloused retinas of a Real American
posted by jason_steakums at 1:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [16 favorites]


We know perfectly well that he thought sitting in the big truck was cool. They took photos!

That's true; we bought the book from Buzzfeed. It's still too painful to look at it but maybe it will be funny in forty years.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:06 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't know what he's hinting at, but Shaun King has something big happening in about an hour.

Perhaps he's found her emails?
posted by Devonian at 1:06 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


I don't think he's ever once thought "omigod this is cool" about anything.

Pee tape.
posted by scalefree at 1:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


No one should look directly at the eclipse with their bare eyes except for our great leader Trump. He deserves to see it in its full glory.

But mama, that's where the fun is.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:12 PM on August 21, 2017 [22 favorites]


if these fuckers are so obsessed with history and heritage and admiring folks/eras that other people find upsetting and painful, we should just put a statue of General Sherman holding a lighter on every street corner in the South, see how they like that
I'm a descendent of General William Tecumseh Sherman, so I've done quite a bit of reading on him. He was a madman with a lust for total war and not even close to being an abolitionist. There's a decent equestrian statue of him in D.C. that I've visited and it never occurred to me that it's a bit odd that we're venerating a guy who vowed to "make Georgia howl." Putting a copy of that in the middle of Atlanta would make Georgia howl once more, I guarantee it. I literally don't tell Southerners I know that I'm related to that dude.
posted by xyzzy at 1:12 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


Sherman turned his total war ideas towards the Native Americans after the Civil War, it wouldn't be worth the statement it might make to the neo-Confederates.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:18 PM on August 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


Yeah, I don't particularly think that the Sherman statue belongs in D.C. to be honest. He wasn't that great of a commander from a tactical standpoint and his views on Native and African Americans were vile.
posted by xyzzy at 1:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]




Huh. Even with the optics of the past week involving the new Nazi uniform, those people living in the White House still went out on that balcony and made a public appearance while letting their kid wear a white polo shirt. It's just dogwhistles all the way down, I suppose.
posted by palomar at 1:30 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


National Treasure @petridishes

it wasn't an eclipse
the sun was facepalming
posted by zakur at 1:34 PM on August 21, 2017 [31 favorites]


An 11-year-old wearing a white polo shirt before Labor Day is a dogwhistle now? Jesus.
posted by creampuff at 1:35 PM on August 21, 2017 [19 favorites]


An 11-year-old wearing a white polo shirt before Labor Day is a dogwhistle now? Jesus.

I know, right? And I can't believe people are giving them a hard time for holding tiki torches during the day: they clearly were prepared to light their way if the eclipse made it too dark out. Also Gorka was definitely just chanting about juice.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:41 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Perhaps it was his favourite shirt. Kids, eh?

I'd... not see it as a material event that hastens the downfall of liberal democracy.
posted by Devonian at 1:42 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]




we bought the book from Buzzfeed

I did too, but I had it shipped to the President of the United States at the White House.
I also sent him the U.S. Constitution For Dummies . "Hi Donny, Can't wait until you get impeached!"
When I get disappeared this might be why.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:42 PM on August 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


@brianklaas
Trump back down to 35% approval today & below 40% approval for 43 straight days. Obama never had even a week averaging below 40% in 8 years.
posted by chris24 at 1:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [32 favorites]


You know, maybe we could keep the sun at one-quarter eclipse and solve global warming. Something for sci-fi writers to ponder. And because this is a Trump thread, just to add: yecch, Trump.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:49 PM on August 21, 2017


I don't think they blinded the kid, so that's good.
posted by Artw at 1:54 PM on August 21, 2017


Is he back in school? Could be he hadn't changed out of his uniform/school clothes.
posted by asteria at 1:54 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


> You know, maybe we could keep the sun at one-quarter eclipse and solve global warming. Something for sci-fi writers to ponder. And because this is a Trump thread, just to add: yecch, Trump.

The idea is called a sunshade. Not cheap, but hey, maybe 45 can sell it as a large infrastructure project. Maybe convince him that he can bill the UN for fixing climate change.
posted by papercrane at 1:55 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]




Tim Squirrell, Quartz: Linguistic data analysis of 3 billion Reddit comments shows the alt-right is getting stronger
The_Donald and other alt-right spaces are acting as meeting places for disaffected white men from all walks of life to share a communal hatred. They start out in different corners of the internet with different interests and different lexicons. They remain separate when they’re outside of The_Donald, but the more time they spend in there, the more pernicious views of the world they are likely to pick up by osmosis. They are forming a coherent group identity, represented in the language they have begun to speak, which coalesces around their common hatred of liberalism and their love of Donald Trump.

We’re witnessing the radicalization of young white men through the medium of frog memes. In order to see it, all you need to do is look at the words coming out of their mouths. The alt-right isn’t yet united, but it soon will be.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [53 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Great American Eclipse: Winners and Losers
Q: Did the sun go away because we did something wrong?

Hobgoblin: The real question is why the sun came back. I think I speak for millions of Americans when I say that I favor a world shrouded in darkness where we can raise our young peaceably in hivelike structures.

Woman Who Gets Shouted Over: (shaking head furiously) I don’t want that.

Hairpiece With Bookcase: The moon was right to send its path of totality over only those states where real Americans live. Except Oregon.

Guy With Glasses: The moon was playing to its base. The moon-base, if you will.

Woman Who Gets Shouted Over: I won’t.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:13 PM on August 21, 2017 [22 favorites]


Chait, NYMag: That Russian Guy Who Attended the Trump Tower Meeting Is Almost Definitely a Spy.
...Akhmetshin’s résumé contains gaping voids:

A trained biochemist who speaks four languages, he described himself on one official document as a “househusband. ” He identified himself as the head of a Washington think tank for years after it was officially dissolved.
This is the guy who happened to be lunching with the Veselnitskaya when she was supposedly all, "Hey, off to Trump tower to talk about adoption, wanna tag along?"

And apparently, e-mail hacking is his thing.
The first hacking case, which has not previously been reported, began when Mr. Akhmetshin served an alliance of businessmen led by Suleiman Kerimov — a financier close to Mr. Putin in a commercial and political dispute with a Russian competitor, Ashot Egiazaryan.

In early 2011, two London lawyers on Mr. Egiazaryan’s team separately received suspicious emails and hired forensic experts to scrutinize them, according to people involved in a Scotland Yard investigation. The experts found that the messages concealed spyware meant to infiltrate their computers, and they fed traceable documents into the spyware that were then opened by computers registered at the Moscow office park of one of Mr. Kerimov’s companies.
posted by xyzzy at 2:16 PM on August 21, 2017 [30 favorites]


Another former Trumpeteer realizes "oh shit, the critics were right all along" -- Julius Krein: 'I Voted For Trump. And I Sorely Regret It' (NPR, Aug. 21, 2017) -- Ailsa Chang talks to Julius Krein, of American Affairs Journal, one of the lone voices speaking out for an intellectual movement for President Trump. Now he says he wishes he hadn't voted for him.
Krein: I've always been very interested in his critique of the prevailing policy consensus that he raised during the campaign. And even though I thought he was always an imperfect vehicle for that, I thought he might be a sort of adequate one. But after Charlottesville, his just refusal to state the facts and condemn the groups responsible - and in this case, you know, there was no claiming that it was a faulty earpiece or a misstatement or anything because he just kept re-emphasizing the same comments - it became clear that what he really cared about all along, exactly as his critics said, was the sort of worse parts of his campaign and clearly has no interest in or ability to execute the better agenda that he faintly gestured at. And so I felt it was time to state my opposition to this president.
In short: Trumpian dude-bro was totes OK with all the other noxious bullshit that Trump spouted up until now, and really hoped Trump would fake an apology or even an excuse (Krein again says "It wasn't a misstatement. It wasn't a faulty earpiece. It wasn't just..." as if hoping he could wave it all away and say "look, he has a half-decent excuse, who among us hasn't been accidentally racist because of technical malfunctions?) to get on the right side of history, as the world keeps splitting into sharp divides between White Supremacists and Everyone Else, where the Everyone Else party is clearly a party (see: Boston), and the WS are a few, scared/angry white men. Hey, at least he's adding his voice to the Correct Side of History Party, there on NPR and in a New York Times op-ed ("I Voted for Trump. And I Sorely Regret It." [Now please don't dox me and call me a racist in now or in the future -- fake, my own addition])

Former Trump fanboys and apologists, good news! Welcome to the party of decency and humanity, we call it the Democratic Party. We're a big tent, but not big enough for racists and bigots, so if you have such thoughts, please try to learn that they're awful thoughts, and keep them to yourself. But we're moving beyond "fixing Obamacare" and other weak-sauce efforts to court Republicans, and we're going whole socialist in some areas, starting with heath care. Because when you write things like
Far from making America great again, Mr. Trump has betrayed the foundations of our common citizenship. And his actions are jeopardizing any prospect of enacting an agenda that might restore the promise of American life.
I see "American life" and imagine Medicare-for-All, which Bernie Sanders points out in Fortune, is actually good for business, just like Trump's immigration plan will cost 4.6 million jobs. You can't just say "I don't like Trump because he repeatedly sided with Nazis," you have to realize that his policies are just as racist, sexist, Islamophobic and xenophobic as his recent, brief news-clippable comments.

Minority rights are human rights. Immigrant lives are American lives. There is no "other" in this country, just "us."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:17 PM on August 21, 2017 [51 favorites]


Of course he looked straight at the eclipse. He's an alpha male—indeed, the nation's supreme alpha male, at the very apex of the national pyramid of dominance—and he'll look at what he goddam wants to, however he goddamn likes. Besides, glasses are for beta losers who just aren't tough enough to face it.
posted by acb at 2:20 PM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's always disturbing to see where the so-called "red line" is for conservatives is. Live boy or dead girl, indeed.
posted by Yowser at 2:24 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


Maybe some of the Top Men from the Smithsonian should offer him a tour of their warehouse space and a chance to interact with some of the more obscure finds... He does have a taste for things covered in gold, after all...
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:25 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


Linguistic data analysis of 3 billion Reddit comments shows the alt-right is getting stronger

Here's a related report Mapping the Alt-Right: The US Alternative Right across the Atlantic, part of the Alt-Right Open Intelligence Initiative project of the Digital Methods Initiative.
posted by scalefree at 2:25 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


You know, maybe we could keep the sun at one-quarter eclipse and solve global warming. Something for sci-fi writers to ponder.

It's been done. Though he posited artificial satellites, not the moon.
posted by Coventry at 2:44 PM on August 21, 2017


Happy George Washington Statue Removal Week!
posted by kirkaracha at 3:03 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


Worth noting that BLM Cambridge is pushing back on the @qwrrty tweet that chris24 linked to above, regarding his reporting on Sunday's march in Boston. BLMC's tweet starts off: 1) His tweets went viral with a false narrative from a white lense. Overshadowing every tweet from actual Black organizers.
posted by terooot at 3:04 PM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


So, I was telling someone about Trump looking at the eclipse sans shades, and a guy in line at the store called me a liar. So I said, I can show you the (several!) pictures, and I did. And he said--are you ready??--"Oh, that was after it was over." Oh ok. That's better, I guess. He was staring at the sun for no reason, then. This is what we are dealing with.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [126 favorites]


...how did he know it was after if he didn't know the pics existed before you ment--

You know what? I'm going to have some wine.
posted by asteria at 3:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [63 favorites]


Bannon's exit interviews sound like Charlie Sheen's 'tiger blood' phase.
posted by srboisvert at 3:30 PM on August 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


He could have had anybody from NASA visit, he could have had custom-fit eclipse glasses, but Nope, just look at the sun and don't bother to get eclipse glasses for your kid. Is there an alt-douche tag?
posted by theora55 at 3:30 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


... except staring at the sun *after* the eclipse will destroy your eyes even faster.
posted by tavella at 3:34 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


Metafilter: Like rage tweeting the moon.
posted by Oyéah at 3:40 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


He could have had anybody from NASA visit, he could have had custom-fit eclipse glasses, but Nope, just look at the sun and don't bother to get eclipse glasses for your kid.

Anti-intellectualism signalling. There's no way he'd be seen demonstrating concern over what some liberal egghead scientist might think. You concede solar eclipses to them, next thing you know, they have you acknowledging global warming or something.
posted by acb at 3:41 PM on August 21, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Too dumb to know not to look into the sun" is marginally preferable to "demonstrably racist" and "eager for nuclear Armageddon." I'm going to say that this was the pivot.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:46 PM on August 21, 2017 [37 favorites]


Of course, if the eclipse did fry his retinas and he ends up partially or entirely blind, that'll just add one impairment his courtiers have to hide from the world and make excuses for. They're already doing so for one or more cognitive impairments as they handle him like a temperamental toddler, trying to stop him from breaking things and hopefully manouvre him into fulfilling strategic plans. If his public appearances start being orchestrated to eliminate any need for him to walk in public without someone discretely guiding him, that could be why.

Not that there are no upsides for his handlers; for one, if he's unable to read, getting him to sign arbitrary things might be even easier.
posted by acb at 3:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


Everyone is stupid. It's just morons all the way down.
posted by prefpara at 3:56 PM on August 21, 2017 [24 favorites]


white youth might have larger student debt burdens than in the past, but they're not hurting for jobs!

I know it's really tempting to be like "fuck you, you racist fuckers, everything you say is a lie", but we have to remember not to let it blind us to facts and actual happenings. They're not wrong that white people - LIKE OTHER PEOPLE- are hurting for jobs, or at least good jobs, compared to twenty or thirty years ago. It is harder for ALL people to get a job, harder to keep a job, harder to get benefits from said job, and harder to get a decent wage than it has been before. Where they are wrong is where they say "And that's why we need to [x awful thing] the [y nationality]!"

This isn't just important to acknowledge for moral, the-truth-will-set-us-free reasons, but also for practical reasons. If people are hurting for jobs, and one group says, "Yes you are, and here is why," that is ALWAYS going to be more attractive than the group saying, "Oh, get over it, you big baby, other people have it worse!" And we cannot afford for only the racists to be hearing those needs. We just can't. If the racists are the only ones promising change, we're fucked.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


please let sun-staring become a ritual of the alt-right, like chugging milk or whatever

buncha blind idiots with the milk shits. master race confirmed
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:00 PM on August 21, 2017 [45 favorites]


No, tonight is the "I'm completely reversing myself and sending more troops to Afghanistan" night. Thank god Warhawk Hillary isn't president.
posted by Justinian at 4:08 PM on August 21, 2017 [34 favorites]


There's a picture with Melania, POTUS, and Barron all with their glasses on so they did get the kid glasses.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


Josh Marshall (TPM): Trump Is Killing McConnell In Kentucky
The number that caught my eye was that McConnell has an astonishing 74% disapproval rating with just 18% approving of his performance in office. A hypothetical Democrat beats him by 7 percentage points. But that only tells part of the story.

McConnell is down at 18% approval. But Trump has a 60% approval rating in the state. If voters are upset with McConnell’s dogged efforts to repeal Obamacare, why is Trump doing so well? Or is it that McConnell failed to repeal Obamacare? And Good Lord, how can Mitch McConnell have a 74% disapproval rating? Congressional leaders always have low approval. See Boehner, Pelosi, Gingrich, et al. But that’s nationally. They almost always maintain strong support in their own states or districts. After all, that’s how they keep getting reelected. This is just a snapshot long before McConnell will face reelection in 2020. But for now the poll shows McConnell trailing a Democratic opponent 37% to 44%. [...]

This seems like an object lesson in the challenges facing many Republicans under Trump, especially when legislation fails and things get rough. McConnell appears to be getting hit badly on multiple fronts. He’s clearly taking a hit from those who opposed the effort to get rid of Kynect/Obamacare, a group which includes a lot of Republicans. But he’s also taking a big hit as the guy who failed to deliver repeal for Trump and the GOP. He’s getting it from both sides. The latter is intensified greatly by the fact that Trump has been repeatedly attacking McConnell and suggesting he should be replaced.
These results are astonishing. Opportunistic fools like Mitch McConnell have hitched their horse to a shitwagon. Too bad they insisted on hitching the rest of us to it, too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:12 PM on August 21, 2017 [74 favorites]


It's hard to be happy during any thought you have about Mitch McConnell, but the arc of his story culminating in this humiliation does tempt you to believe in justice again.
posted by TypographicalError at 4:34 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


I have a feeling this week's theme is going to end up being Blue Lives Matter. (FPP -- direct link to Shaun King's article.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:38 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]




Unfortunately the most obvious reason for Kentucky skewing 18% McConnell approval/60% Trump approval is that Kentucky voters blame McConnell for thwarting Trump, just like Trump has wanted them to.
posted by spitbull at 4:44 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Johnny Wallflower, that piece on the linguistic (and political) convergence of all stripes of haterdom in The_Donald is super interesting and horrifying.
Bored teenagers and gamers are becoming indoctrinated into hard-line anti-globalism, conspiracy theories, and Islamophobia, and it’s happening right before our eyes, on a publicly accessible forum.

...

The_Donald and other alt-right spaces are acting as meeting places for disaffected white men from all walks of life to share a communal hatred. They start out in different corners of the internet with different interests and different lexicons. They remain separate when they’re outside of The_Donald, but the more time they spend in there, the more pernicious views of the world they are likely to pick up by osmosis. They are forming a coherent group identity, represented in the language they have begun to speak, which coalesces around their common hatred of liberalism and their love of Donald Trump.
posted by spamandkimchi at 4:46 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


As Josh Marshall points out, the political situation in Kentucky might be a bit more complicated than that -- specifically, the smashingly successful state branded-ACA program (Kynect) was dismantled by the incoming Republican governor. So Kentuckians have gotten to see firsthand how the Republicans' repeal-and-replace scheme has hurt them.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Our President, folks. Looking straight at the fucking eclipse like a total goddamn moron.

Me and My Baby President View the Eclipse
posted by kirkaracha at 4:51 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


From the WaPo article:
Within the White House, Bannon’s opposition to sending more troops to Afghanistan helped fuel strife with other Trump aides
I'm a little surprised that Bannon was opposed to this, given his virulently anti-Islamist views.
posted by Coventry at 4:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]






"You can go to other people's media and say this, but not to us."

I don't... think? this has been linked to yet (URL search says no), but it's pretty funny watching two financial journalists rip a member of the Donald Trump for President advisory board to shreds on MSNBC: Trump Supporter Tries to Lie About Economy
posted by Rykey at 5:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Bannon was opposed to this, given his virulently anti-Islamist views.

He's not against blowing up Muslims. He just wants to use mercenaries hired by Education Secretary Elizabeth Vos's brother Erik Prince to do it. Lots less rules plus Prince was slotted to be named Viceroy of Afghanistan or some such nonsense.
posted by scalefree at 5:16 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


elshi pointed out to him that the number of jobs created since Trump took office was lower than the rate at which they were being created in the last six months of the Obama administration. So if Trump is going to get credit, does he also give credit to Obama? Of course not. “Right now, the commander in chief is Donald J. Trump,” he said. “And what we’re seeing now is job creation. Donald Trump has created over one million jobs.”

Goddamnit, again: the President is not "commander in chief" of anything but the armed forces. It's a job description item, not a title. He is not my "commander in chief"; I am not the armed forces.
posted by thelonius at 5:17 PM on August 21, 2017 [54 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Bannon was opposed to this, given his virulently anti-Islamist views.

He's also an anti-globalist isolationist economic nationalist.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:36 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


So Kentuckians have gotten to see firsthand how the Republicans' repeal-and-replace scheme has hurt them.

Yeah, but Trump is at 60% approval, so that isn't sticking to him. Haven't seen Bevins' numbers lately, but that would be interesting to triangulate.
posted by spitbull at 5:41 PM on August 21, 2017


maybe this is just normal for 2017, but the POTUS is retweeting Drudge Report headlines about a self-professed cannibal who has tired of eating human flesh and thus turned himself into police.
posted by angrycat at 5:48 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm a little surprised that Bannon was opposed to this, given his virulently anti-Islamist views.

You can hate and not want to pick a fight or create reasons to inspire people to want to come to where you are and take a swing at you.

Just think, over 1/2 way to it being dubbed 'a 30 year war'. Old Europe, represent!
posted by rough ashlar at 5:50 PM on August 21, 2017


maybe this is just normal for 2017, but the POTUS is retweeting Drudge Report headlines about a self-professed cannibal who has tired of eating human flesh and thus turned himself into police.

I see the original post about this on the Drudge Report Twitter feed, but not on POTUS's feed...
posted by dhens at 5:52 PM on August 21, 2017


Yeah, but Trump is at 60% approval, so that isn't sticking to him. Haven't seen Bevins' numbers lately, but that would be interesting to triangulate.

Well Trump's healthcare plan is repeal and *magic wishes* and somehow healthcare is amazing. Like, he has no plan at all and doesn't care. So he can just backseat drive and complain about everyone else's plans, basically take the Republicans under Obama role, and it's red meat for his base whether he's throwing shit at Democrats or Republicans. So maybe that's keeping him afloat, because you can fool some of the people all of the time.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:54 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


TEDDY ROOSEVELT EXISTED, TUCKER CARLSON. TEDDY ROOSEVELT DID PROBABLY 1058392101 MORE PHYSICALLY IMPRESSIVE THINGS THAN BLINDING HIMSELF FOR NO REASON, TUCKER.
posted by yasaman at 5:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [65 favorites]


I think he's trolling you.
posted by Coventry at 5:59 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Doing stupid shit without adequate safety equipment is considered manly by the type of people who like Trump. I assumed this was how it would be spun. I also assume we'll have a lot more people blinded in the next eclipse.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:01 PM on August 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


Streaming link for Trump's speech. He's got a live military band there and the cabinet and everything.
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on August 21, 2017


Tucker Carlson: "But in a move that was not a complete surprise, the President looked directly at the sun..."

Agree that it sounds like trolling.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:03 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Economic Nationalist: "Yeah, I don't see race. I mean, I'm still racist, but ever since the 2021 eclipse ..."
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [20 favorites]


Re: Trump looking at the sun, I would not expect any less from a person who does not believe in science. His narcissism has turned him into a Copernicus-ian - except it's the sun and all of us that revolve around him and not just the Earth. I'm not a mean person generally but I hope the sun bit back - I know when I watched the eclipse it reminded me of how small and powerless we are. Trump could use more than a touch of that humility.
posted by anya32 at 6:06 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


oh wait I'm looking at what's appearing in Trump's feed or whatever that WaPo Trump Twitter bot is doing. sorry.
posted by angrycat at 6:08 PM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


Anyway, looking briefly at the sun like that is painful, but it's not going to cause long-term harm in itself.

Decades ago I saw a TV article about a cult in Australia decades ago whose adherents would stare at the sun. It took much longer for them to suffer retinal damage. They would stare at it for minutes, claiming it caused trippy visual effects.
posted by Coventry at 6:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, they were nuts. Some of them suffered permanent damage to their vision. But the point is, it took a while for that to happen.
posted by Coventry at 6:15 PM on August 21, 2017


Terrorists are "losers." Got it.

This is so awful. 4,000 more troops doing the same stuff we've been doing, but he's going to claim it's an all new strategy. Well if it's his strategy, he owns it now. It's all on him.

But now maybe the Taliban can have political power after we're done attacking them? Huh?
posted by zachlipton at 6:18 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I was busy and I missed his bullshit speech. Can you sum it up for me? Is Afghanistan Obama's fault, or everyone except Trump's fault?
posted by Justinian at 6:19 PM on August 21, 2017


omg shut up about the stupid eclipse

vi 4eva
posted by um at 6:22 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


Oh, he's still going. He sounds slightly more coherent than usual. I assume it's because it's pure teleprompter!
posted by Justinian at 6:23 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's still going on, but apparently we're going to be tougher on Pakistan while asking India to do economic development in Afghanistan. So that's going to be interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 6:24 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


full text of frump's address
posted by HyperBlue at 6:24 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


while asking India to do economic development in Afghanistan

Yeah, good luck with that, fuckface.

(Meaning dipshit-in-chief, not you, zachlipton.)
posted by CommonSense at 6:28 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh , wait... where's Paul Ryan's town hall??

I'm so disgusted.
posted by kiwi-epitome at 6:28 PM on August 21, 2017


He sounds slightly more coherent than usual.

His speech is more coherent, but the policy is an incoherent mess of Trump bombast and threats, Obama's surge only less, and forcing Pakistan and India to step up and fix it. And pay more. Kind like he wants NATO to pay more for protection. And kinda like how he *forced* China to fix North Korea. And we know how well that's working.
posted by chris24 at 6:28 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


Come on you guys are being harsh, 17th times the charm.
posted by Justinian at 6:30 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]




What can be said about Donald Trump's approval numbers that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan?
posted by darkstar at 6:32 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


@PhilipRucker: Tonight is a new President Trump: Acknowledging a flip-flop and talking about gravity of office, history & substance. [ratio watch: 2000 replies, 102 retweets, 464 likes]

@Olivianuzzi: Tonight is a new President Trump: If you forgot to take your head out of your cereal box after the eclipse
posted by zachlipton at 6:32 PM on August 21, 2017 [54 favorites]


Some of the other responses to Rucker's tweet:

"Phil."

"Seriously, Phil."

"Come on Phil."

(Lucy and Football .gif)

"Jesus, Phil."

and my favorite,

"God, you're an easy lay."
posted by Justinian at 6:35 PM on August 21, 2017 [54 favorites]


What can be said about Donald Trump's approval numbers that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan?

That they're the graveyard of empires?

Wait. What?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:38 PM on August 21, 2017 [10 favorites]


A giant thunderstorm came right as the speech started, cutting off my hotel's satellite feed. I think it's a sign.

A few key quotes:
It is time for Pakistan to demonstrate its commitment to civilization, order, and to peace.
Calling Pakistan, essentially, uncivilized is, yuck.
As the prime minister of Afghanistan has promised, we are going to participate in economic development to help defray the cost of this war to us.
I believe this is a fancy way of saying, "we're taking their minerals."
They are bound together by common purpose, mutual trust, and selfless devotion to our nation and to each other. The soldier understands what we as a nation too often forget, that a wound inflicted upon on a single member of our community is a wound inflicted upon us all. When one part of America hurts, we all hurt.

And when one citizen suffers an injustice, we all suffer together. Loyalty to our nation demands loyalty to one another. Love for America requires love for all of its people. When we open our hearts to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice, no place for bigotry, and no tolerance for hate. The young men and women we sent to fight our wars abroad deserve to return to a country that is not at war with itself at home. We cannot remain a force for peace in the world if we are not at peace with each other.

As we send our bravest to defeat our enemies overseas, and we will always win, let us find the courage to heal our divisions within. Let us make a simple promise to the men and women we ask to fight in our name, that when they return home from battle, they will find a country that has renewed the sacred bonds of love and loyalty that unite us together as one.
I am amazed he didn't break off from the teleprompter here and berate everyone for not showing him proper deference in wartime.

Anyway, the real question is what he says tomorrow when he says whatever he wants instead of reading the prompter. And how mad he is about tonight's TV ratings.
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on August 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


She's not mad
posted by Yowser at 6:45 PM on August 21, 2017


Mrs. Mnuchin, it's sheetcaking, not let them eat caking.
posted by Yowser at 6:46 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Steve Mnuchin's wife Louise Linton ... is the same person who wrote this lunatic "memoir" about her "nightmare" gap year in Zambia.

Well holy shit. Instead of Romney's binders of women, this administration has binders of the worst people ever.
posted by mcduff at 6:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


Goddamnit, again: the President is not "commander in chief" of anything but the armed forces. It's a job description item, not a title. He is not my "commander in chief"; I am not the armed forces.

I have had a conversation that included this almost verbatim, but in my case I felt compelled to add, "Jesus Christ, Paul, you remember that we are both Canadian, right?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:52 PM on August 21, 2017 [48 favorites]




The entire Trump apparatus is filled with the worst people. From top to bottom it's just stupid and incompetent. At some point we will find out they just hired everyone with a craigslist ad.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:57 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


I believe it's a random assortment of people who Fox calls up for opinions and people that Breitbart has praised, plus the odd gangster or Russian spy.
posted by Artw at 6:59 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Grift is the defining characteristic above all other things, possibly even more so than being a shit-ass Nazi, though the two are often coincident.
posted by Artw at 7:00 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


A Craigslist ad would pull at least a FEW decent people by accident.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:00 PM on August 21, 2017 [30 favorites]


The entire Trump apparatus is filled with the worst people. From top to bottom it's just stupid and incompetent.

I am amazed every day that he still hasn't nominated someone who was physically in jail or prison at the moment of the announcement.
posted by Etrigan at 7:14 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


OMG some politicians, journalists, and ordinary citizens really do have an abused spouse mentality towards Trump, it is so awful and creepy. "He read off a teleprompter! He's changed!"
posted by supercrayon at 7:14 PM on August 21, 2017 [24 favorites]


Zachlipton: I believe this is a fancy way of saying, "we're taking their minerals."

Worse. It's going to be colonial resource extraction with US/Pakistani mines backed by US military forces, and the people of Pakistan themselves will have no say in it. The only question is whether it's going to be more like the East India Company or more like the Belgian Congo:
As the prime minister of Afghanistan has promised, we are going to participate in economic development to help defray the cost of this war to us. [...] But we will no longer use American military might to construct democracies in faraway lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image. Those days are now over. Instead, we will work with allies and partners to protect our shared interests.


The "allies and partners" are the officially-recognised government that authorises the resource extraction; the "shared interests" are the mines and (very possibly) opium fields.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:16 PM on August 21, 2017 [10 favorites]


OMG some politicians, journalists, and ordinary citizens really do have an abused spouse mentality towards Trump, it is so awful and creepy. "He read off a teleprompter! He's changed!"

I am not sure if I would put it in those terms, but I do think that many media personalities simply cannot handle -- personally or professionally -- that someone who so blatantly rips up social and political norms is president, nor the fact that he was elected by a substantial minority of the citizens of the Republic. So they need to try to make things "normal."
posted by dhens at 7:18 PM on August 21, 2017 [16 favorites]


Oops, I meant to write "US/Afghan", sorry. Not that I wouldn't expect the same thing to happen in Pakistan, eventually. It's an old colonial tactic: let your surrogates set up a joint venture or otherwise local business, and then send your gunboats in to "protect" it. It's how Britain ended up with Hong Kong, for instance.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:22 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump administration officials have told the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine to halt a review of the increased public health risks faced by Appalachian residents who live near mountaintop removal coal-mining sites, the academies revealed in a statement issued Monday.

So, um, does the Cabinet actually have any say over the National Academies beyond how much money to give them? Aren't they NGOs? Can't they get funding elsewhere? Shall we expect a written reply with the first letters of each paragraph spelling out "GO FUCK YOURSELF"?

But we will no longer use American military might to construct democracies in faraway lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image. [Footage not found.] Those days are now over. Instead, we will work with allies and partners to protect our shared interests. smash the place up and bill them for it.

That's got to be a war crime, right? I mean ... right???
posted by Sys Rq at 7:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jon Cooper‏ @joncoopertweets
BREAKING: After alt-right organizers saw huge counter-protests in Boston, they've canceled 67 "America First Rallies" scheduled in 36 states
6:24 PM - 21 Aug 2017
posted by standardasparagus at 7:29 PM on August 21, 2017 [139 favorites]


What would look different if the GOP had secret, incontrovertible evidence that the world was ending in 10 years?
posted by ctmf at 7:33 PM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


NYT, Abby Goodnough, Getting People to Enroll in Health Plans While Trump Attacks Them
An even more crucial question is whether administration officials who openly detest the law will lead a vigorous nationwide push to persuade the uninsured to buy policies sold under its banner, and existing customers to keep their coverage, when open enrollment for next year starts on Nov. 1.

The evidence so far suggests they won’t. The administration recently ended $23 million worth of contracts with two companies that helped people sign up for coverage. It also is cutting the enrollment period in half in most states, to 45 days. A number of advocacy groups that worked closely with the Obama administration to get the word out about open enrollment have heard nothing from the Trump administration about re-upping the partnerships this year.
...
Mr. Slonaker also said that at a conference that C.M.S. held for navigators in June, employees of the agency said the federal government would not run any ads to promote open enrollment this year. A spokeswoman for the agency would not confirm whether that was true or answer other questions about the administration’s plans.

Other open questions include whether the Trump administration will automatically re-enroll people who did not actively cancel or change their plan, as Mr. Obama’s did, and whether it will increase staffing at call centers that help people sign up, given the compressed enrollment time frame.
They're continuing to sabotage the hell out of Obamacare out of spite. @SeanMcElwee had a brilliant tweet this morning:
If you're frantically trying to buy eclipse glasses right now, you'll understand why 30 day registration deadlines reduce voter turnout.
It applies to voting, of course, but it also fits for Obamacare. Intentionally making it harder for people to sign up for health insurance just drives up costs and will leave millions uninsured, all so they can say the law is failed.
posted by zachlipton at 7:33 PM on August 21, 2017 [27 favorites]


Indignation, socially a most productive emotion, cannot be directed against the conditions alone, since this would totally depersonalize the conditions, denude them of human participation and treat them as out of reach and no longer alterable.
—Brecht, 11/24/42
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:36 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Btw, despite Ryan and Price's lies about bare counties where there are no insurers on the Obamacare exchanges, new insurers have already stepped into fill the gaps in every single case except for a single county, Paulding, Ohio and its 334 enrollees.

And while I hope those 334 people get health insurance next year, if you want to argue the whole system is broken because of 334 people in one county, maybe spend a fraction of the time that has gone into lying about the ACA on the people of Flint; a lot more than 334 people are involved.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on August 21, 2017 [40 favorites]


What would look different if the GOP had secret, incontrovertible evidence that the world was ending in 10 years?

Doesn't count if they're also the ones bringing about that fate.
posted by Candleman at 7:48 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I do think that many media personalities simply cannot handle -- personally or professionally -- that someone who so blatantly rips up social and political norms is president, nor the fact that he was elected by a substantial minority of the citizens of the Republic. So they need to try to make things "normal."

I think it's because they perceive their own roles as being these lofty and prestigious chroniclers of the Wise Doings of Great People and don't want to cop to the fact that the presence of a wildly ignorant and unqualified President in the White House makes their profundity seem wildly out of touch. They will keep bending over backwards to make him right: it makes them right by association.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 7:57 PM on August 21, 2017 [17 favorites]


@Lindsey Graham: Between Afghanistan and Syria @realDonaldTrump is showing the WILL to stand up to Radical Islam...

....unlike President Obama.

@KevinMKruse: "We now go to Osama Bin Laden for comment."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:02 PM on August 21, 2017 [83 favorites]


Yep, Donald Trump's Will is definitely going to be victorious in Afghanistan. One might even say Triumphant.
posted by Justinian at 8:08 PM on August 21, 2017 [9 favorites]


The story* mentioned by mandolin conspiracy also has this (emphasis mine):
Michael Hendryx, a former WVU researcher who co-authored most of the significant scientific papers on the issue, said Monday that the move by the OSM shouldn’t come as a surprise. Hendryx noted that another Interior agency, the U.S. Geological Survey, had, in February 2013 — under the Obama administration — pulled funding for scientific work on mountaintop removal’s potential health effects.

“I’d like to think this is a temporary suspension of the project for a routine review and that it will soon re-continue, but I have my doubts,” said Hendryx, who is now at Indiana University in Bloomington. “We know the current administration is anti-science and pro-coal, so you have to wonder if it is politically motivated.”
*Ken Ward, Jr., Charleston Gazette-Mail
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Afghanistan isn't ours, their minerals, their lithium, their cultural norms, they are not ours. We had better not be victorious with regard to taking their stuff, and destroying their culture.
posted by Oyéah at 8:27 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


Calling Pakistan, essentially, uncivilized is, yuck.

Ya think?
posted by bardophile at 8:33 PM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


But we will no longer use American military might to construct democracies in faraway lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image. Those days are now over. Instead, we will work with allies and partners to protect our shared interests.

I didn't read or watch his speech, but... man. At least the pretext of American military involvement throughout the world was always promoting democracy. This fucker's saying "Don't expect me to care about even nominally supporting democracy where our military goes. Not giving a fuck about the populations on the receiving end of the US military is now stated policy."

Coupled with the other stuff people quoted about "defraying costs," this is super fucked up. Does anybody know if this is a function of Trump's letting the generals run the game, or is this Trump being Trump despite what the generals want?
posted by Rykey at 8:37 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nathan Heller in the New Yorker: Is there any point to protesting?

Skeptics suggest that “folk politics”—marches, protests, and the like—are a distraction from the challenges of real change.
posted by medusa at 8:39 PM on August 21, 2017


Hmm. We now know where the weird heel/heal congratulations to the anti-bigots in Boston tweet came from yesterday. They were working on the speech.
posted by notyou at 8:39 PM on August 21, 2017


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 Senate -- GOP not loving Trump getting involved in the Arizona GOP primary.

** Electoral integrity -- New suit to force Kobach commission to make records public.

** Odds & ends:
-- Further on that eye-popping Kentucky PPP poll (worst approval number for any public official in a PPP poll ever!): only 27% approved of Trumpcare.

-- The DCCC outraised the NRCC in July $6.2M to $3.8M. This is the third straight month the Dems have led. This is something to keep in mind when considering yesterday's garment rending over the DNC trailing the RNC - the DCCC is who is relevant for 2018 House, the DNC is largely about the presidential.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [41 favorites]


> Nathan Heller in the New Yorker: Is there any point to protesting?

Ask the dickweasels who were planning those alt-right rallies.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 PM on August 21, 2017 [20 favorites]


Well, Bannon continues on his winning streak: Breitbart Forced To Apologize For Using Picture of German Soccer Star Lukas Podolski in Human Trafficking Story. “A previous version of this story included an image of Lukas Podolski on a jet ski. This image appeared as an illustration of a person on a jet ski. Breitbart London wishes to apologise to Mr. Podolski,” Breitbart London wrote. “There is no evidence Mr. Podolski is either a migrant gang member, nor being human trafficked. We wish Mr. Podolski well in his recently announced international retirement.” Nassim Touihri, Podolski’s manager, told a German newspaper that the situation was “a mess.”
“Lukas distances himself from it and won’t let himself be exploited. Our lawyer is already involved,” Touihri said, according to The Guardian.

posted by TwoStride at 8:49 PM on August 21, 2017 [11 favorites]


More seriously, the US - Pakistan relationship is tough, even if one only looks at terrorism emanating from TTP, Daesh, and their affiliates. Things are further complicated by the US discomfort with our seemingly imminent change of fealty from Uncle Sam to China (Hello, CPEC and OBOR!) and the Pakistani establishment's eagerness to use military aid and anti - terror legislation to stifle activism (violent and non-violent). The combination of those two has kept a squadron of US helicopter gunships, flown by Pakistani ex-military pilots, surveilling all of Balochistan. Ostensibly, the squadron is supposed to be for monitoring and combating Islamist militants. If that were really what they were being used for, their flight area would be roughly in the region of and around the western border. Instead, they are flying in the areas where Balochi separatists and China-Pakistan mineral and logistical projects are to be found. This deviation from stated mission has been true since the squadron was established several years ago, with a wink and a nudge from both governments. That's just one example.

Somehow, I am skeptical that the Tillerson/Trump State Department will be better at doing these complicated diplomatic dance figures than the Clinton /Obama or Kerry /Obama State Departments.
posted by bardophile at 9:03 PM on August 21, 2017 [30 favorites]


Isn't there a scheduled dig of gold and copper in Baluchistan near the Afghan border? These greedy fuckers want to get their hands on everything.
posted by nikitabot at 9:27 PM on August 21, 2017


They're not wrong that white people - LIKE OTHER PEOPLE- are hurting for jobs, or at least good jobs, compared to twenty or thirty years ago. It is harder for ALL people to get a job, harder to keep a job, harder to get benefits from said job, and harder to get a decent wage than it has been before. Where they are wrong is where they say "And that's why we need to [x awful thing] the [y nationality]!"
This isn't just important to acknowledge for moral, the-truth-will-set-us-free reasons, but also for practical reasons. If people are hurting for jobs, and one group says, "Yes you are, and here is why," that is ALWAYS going to be more attractive than the group saying, "Oh, get over it, you big baby, other people have it worse!" And we cannot afford for only the racists to be hearing those needs. We just can't. If the racists are the only ones promising change, we're fucked.


Yup. These people are deeply unhappy--and a lot of people when they are unhappy (a) want someone to blame, and (b) want someone to take it out on. If we can't make everyone safe and well funded and content, this crap continues and we're fucked. (So we're fucked.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


The only question is whether it's going to be more like the East India Company or more like the Belgian Congo

Didn't the Bush administration try this in Iraq? Did the US get any significant mining done from that? (Serious questions)
posted by Coventry at 9:42 PM on August 21, 2017


Boston went well, hoping all in/around Phoenix stay safe: Phoenix Prepares For Possible Unrest As Trump Holds Campaign Style Rally (NPR, Aug. 21, 2017)
Last week, the mayor of Phoenix, Greg Stanton, asked President Trump not to visit the city, but the administration is moving forward with the event and planning trips elsewhere, including Yuma, Ariz., and later Reno, Nev. In a prerecorded statement, Mayor Stanton said he's disappointed President Trump is holding this rally while the nation is still healing from the violence that erupted this month in Charlottesville.

GREG STANTON: If President Trump is coming to Phoenix to announce a pardon for former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, then it will be clear that his true intent is to inflame emotions and further divide our nation.
That really would be a fucking slap in the face of the country. But don't worry, there's a pro-Trump biker group offering protection for President Trump's visit, to ensure those who support Trump and want to hear him speak won't be shoved aside by anti-Trump protesters.

Also, pro-Trump AZ Gov. Doug Ducey won't be attending. Hmm, why not show your support at this time when the nation needs to heal and come together?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 PM on August 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


And on the issue of charging the US for secret service to rent golf carts while at Trump properties, and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in hotel bills, including at Trump properties, which is a huge issue of conflicts, secret service are being overworked, so even if more overtime pay is offered, there's not more people to do the work and do it well.
The Department of Homeland Security had commissioned a report in which an independent reviewer found that the workload could not be sustained over a period of years.
(NPR, Aug. 21, 2017)

I'm not sure what that report is, but in December 2015, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a bipartisan report that "highlighted serious leadership and staffing concerns, along with details surrounding employee misconduct and security breach incidents." The Oversight Committee leaders "expressed concern" and noted that "USSS simply cannot hire enough personnel to keep pace with historic attrition rates…"

In June of this year, USSS Director Randolph Alles provided written testimony for a House Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Transportation and Protective Security hearing titled “How Can the United States Secret Service Evolve to Meet the Challenges Ahead?” and stated:
In Fiscal Year (FY) 2016, the Secret Service realized a 38 percent increase in total protective stops compared to FY 2015, as well as a 32 percent increase in campaign-related stops over FY 2008 (the last presidential campaign without an incumbent). More recently, the Secret Service secured several large-scale events, to include the International Monetary Fund and World Bank Group Spring Meeting, and an eleven-day Vice Presidential foreign trip throughout Southeast Asia and Australia. In addition, the Secret Service successfully secured a number of protective stops during the President’s recent eight-day foreign trip to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Belgium, and Italy.

Even as protection has been and remains our primary mission focus, the investigative mission of the Secret Service is critically important and noteworthy. We have prioritized our limited resources to effectively further the investigative mission. In FY 2016, in the midst of a demanding presidential campaign year, our field personnel closed 3,592 criminal cases resulting in 2,125 arrests. Our cyber investigations prevented $558 million in potential loss and $124.5 million in actual loss in FY 2016. The agency remains committed to advancing its capabilities to protect America’s financial infrastructure to stop cyber criminals as they develop advanced malware to compromise the computer networks of U.S. financial institutions and businesses. In fact, to better support these investigations, we have updated our training curriculum to include basic cyber training for all new incoming Special Agents.
With recent efforts, Secret Service has "the highest total employee population we have had since 2012," but that's still not enough to secure the President and his extended family as they travel around the world, particularly for non-official business.

Again, it's the choices made by the President that aren't related to his presidency that are taxing the Secret Service. Maybe he should start paying for security details while on vacation?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:19 PM on August 21, 2017 [34 favorites]


That's just a convenient reason for him to contract security (to his own companies, natch). Let the USSS prioritize their limited resources on the investigative mission.
posted by ctmf at 10:36 PM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


GREG STANTON: If President Trump is coming to Phoenix to announce a pardon for former Sheriff Joe Arpaio, then it will be clear that his true intent is to inflame emotions and further divide our nation.

Of course he is. He needs the release that comes from regaining the dominance he lost when he was forced to speak against the Nazis. Pardoning Arpaio fits that need perfectly, he can rub it in our faces & show us who's boss.
posted by scalefree at 10:37 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]


Let the USSS prioritize their limited resources on the investigative mission.

(Which, to be more clear, I think is a terrible, terrible idea.)
posted by ctmf at 10:38 PM on August 21, 2017


The Eclipsing of Steve Bannon (The Baffler, Sam Kriss):
He does not look well, but did he ever? Steve Bannon’s eyes seep, weep, and rheum between their heavy folding triple-parenthesis bags, blinking labiae, lonely dunes of flaking skin. His nose dimples out like some peak of rubble in the crags of a bomb-blasted city. His lips vanish into the puffy slit-scar of his mouth. His cheeks blotch and billow; you could pinch one of them out, mold it like plasticine between your fingertips, and when you let go it would take half a day for his flesh to squelch back to its ordinary shape. His forehead is unspeakable. His hair flops like dead reeds after an oil spill. His neck is like a frog’s. His breasts pucker. His pale belly aches. His hams scrawn, greased pistons, spiky with little hairs they shiver. His feet are bleeding. He has come to this hilltop. Around him the scraggly grass, and the senseless tinfoil trees, and the darkening sky. Like everyone else, he has come to watch the eclipse.

Steve Bannon is alone now, waiting for the black sun, trapped on a planet with one billion Chinese.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:40 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


Here's Slate on why Trump's Afghanistan policy is a mess. Basically: a few thousand more troops can't do what 100,000 didn't do. And you can't defeat an insurgency with a corrupt government.

And wow, playing the heavy on Pakistan can backfire in a thousand ways. Pakistan has already paid a high price for this war. But Trump doesn't seem to understand the concept of allies anyway.
posted by zompist at 10:47 PM on August 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Phoenix Prepares For Possible Unrest As Trump Holds Campaign Style Rally

It's not a "campaign style rally," it's a campaign rally. Trump launched his 2020 reelection campaign on Inauguration Day.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:56 PM on August 21, 2017 [27 favorites]




Haven't clicked on the link yet, but let me help you out. """"didn't know was an HBCU""""
posted by Yowser at 11:08 PM on August 21, 2017 [19 favorites]


He is not my "commander in chief"; I am not the armed forces.

Thank you. This drove me crazy at a job I had in the Bush the Lesser years. One of the right-wingers who worked in my office kept saying "He's our commander in chief", and it took every ounce of restraint I had to not say "DO YOU SEE A FUCKING UNIFORM ON ME?".

Okay, yes, it was a federal job and technically he was our ultimate boss (ugh), but still. Not my commander.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:09 PM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


I just had to look up what HBCU stood for, and even I knew that Howard was an HBCU.
posted by lkc at 11:12 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


How is the Afghanistan policy anything other than trying to change the subject from the President being a Nazi? 4000 more troops doing the same thing as the 8500 we still have left there is not a policy. He literally just wanted to get on TV and give a Big Serious Speech to show everyone he's The Real President, and get CNN talking about anything other than how much he loves Nazis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:28 PM on August 21, 2017 [41 favorites]


So, he managed to be good and stay on TelePrompTer and not say anything too offensive tonight? Important question for Phoenix... Has he ever managed to do that two days in a row?
posted by Weeping_angel at 11:31 PM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hey, it worked for Bush...
posted by Coventry at 11:31 PM on August 21, 2017


Hey, it worked for Bush...

Bush was Cheney's sock puppet. Cheney is 100% fucking Lawful Evil. Competent, and with a FUCKING ROBOT HEART where his human one used to be...
posted by mikelieman at 11:35 PM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


It fits the same exact pattern we saw with the Charlottesville statements. He can be arm-twisted into doing something politically necessary, but then he has this overwhelming urge to fling shit everywhere to get back at his political enemies. He wants to do something to beat the people who made him unhappy. He had to kick out one of his monsters, so he'll want another. A pardon for Arpaio seems more likely than ever now.

In other words we can use the "Trump's Outhouse" principle to intuit what he's going to do in this sort of scenario.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:46 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


HBCU = Historically Black College or University

filthy light thief: "And on the issue of charging the US for secret service to rent golf carts while at Trump properties, and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in hotel bills, including at Trump properties, which is a huge issue of conflicts, secret service are being overworked, so even if more overtime pay is offered, there's not more people to do the work and do it well. "

Man I am going to laugh my ass off if the Cheeto gets assassinated because his constant golfing on his insecure properties meant the SS staff tasked to protect him were off their game because of overwork. It would be such a multilevel/multifaceted example of what is wrong with running a government like a business rolled up into one neat little package. I might ROTF if it's a neo-nazi with an assault weapon.
posted by Mitheral at 12:19 AM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


Man I am going to laugh my ass off if the Cheeto gets assassinated because his constant golfing on his insecure properties meant the SS staff tasked to protect him were off their game because of overwork. It would be such a multilevel/multifaceted example of what is wrong with running a government like a business rolled up into one neat little package. I might ROTF if it's a neo-nazi with an assault weapon.

I've got 5 bucks on it being an oil tanker: "Dudes, I only got 3 hours last night, and it didn't look like it was coming towards us."
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:51 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I am going to laugh my ass off if the Cheeto gets assassinated

Quite glad I don't live in a country where there's a TLA with nothing better to do than comb through terabytes of seized data for remarks of that ilk.
posted by flabdablet at 1:36 AM on August 22, 2017


Mod note: There's a bit of a conflict here when we are talking about understaffed / underfunded Secret Service and contemplating possible problems that could arise from that ... and our site standard that we do not fill these threads with gross death (etc.) fantasy stuff, so I'm going to ask that folks try to negotiate this line intelligently and avoid us looking like any random horrifying youtube comment thread. Thank you.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:53 AM on August 22, 2017 [63 favorites]


But Trump doesn't seem to understand the concept of allies anyway.

Trump doesn't seem to understand anything.
posted by Melismata at 5:02 AM on August 22, 2017 [12 favorites]


This whole speech about Afghanistan is fucking terrifying. Talk about warhawks. What a nightmare.
posted by h00py at 5:39 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am absolutely shocked by it. This is a massive declaration that the USA, as governed by this gormless, evil fuckwit, is prepared to unleash war at the slightest provocation. Spending billions more on the military while telling everyone at home to pull it together for the soldiers, because there's going to be a fuckload more of them and they're doing it all for you, so no more of this pesky, unimportant bickering about injustice. Oh my fucking god.
posted by h00py at 5:55 AM on August 22, 2017 [33 favorites]


Which they didn't didn't know was an HBCU.

Alternately, they're just lying little shits.

Does Howard have an ongoing problem with white high-school girls wandering on their campus looking for lunch?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:57 AM on August 22, 2017 [21 favorites]


If people are hurting for jobs, and one group says, "Yes you are, and here is why," that is ALWAYS going to be more attractive than the group saying, "Oh, get over it, you big baby, other people have it worse!" And we cannot afford for only the racists to be hearing those needs.

My perception is that Democrats have been saying "yes you are, and here's why [insert well-researched but boring economic analysis followed by complex but workable solution to complex problem] while Republicans have been, and are, the ones saying "get over it you big baby -- let's cut taxes and slash regulations, surely this time the jobs will appear!"
posted by Gelatin at 6:03 AM on August 22, 2017 [32 favorites]


Here's Slate on why Trump's Afghanistan policy is a mess. Basically: a few thousand more troops can't do what 100,000 didn't do. And you can't defeat an insurgency with a corrupt government.

I'm afraid you have to specify which corrupt government you are talking about.
posted by srboisvert at 6:25 AM on August 22, 2017 [20 favorites]


Bush was Cheney's sock puppet. Cheney is 100% fucking Lawful Evil. Competent, and with a FUCKING ROBOT HEART where his human one used to be...

He got another human heart

I mean, how we probably don't want to know, but he got one
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:26 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


My first reaction to the Howard story was Rex Cramer, Danger Seeker. Also my second reaction.

(The uninitiated should not play that YouTube clip at work.)
posted by delfin at 6:32 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am absolutely shocked by it. This is a massive declaration that the USA, as governed by this gormless, evil fuckwit, is prepared to unleash war at the slightest provocation. Spending billions more on the military while telling everyone at home to pull it together for the soldiers, because there's going to be a fuckload more of them and they're doing it all for you, so no more of this pesky, unimportant bickering about injustice. Oh my fucking god.

I think that if Trump wants military action, the unified Democratic response should be to demand a draft or all men and women under 26. No exceptions. If you're physically unable to perform combat, there's plenty of desk jobs that need filling.
posted by mikelieman at 6:32 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


That'll fire the kids up!
posted by h00py at 6:36 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


*sob*
posted by h00py at 6:37 AM on August 22, 2017


I think that if Trump wants military action, the unified Democratic response should be to demand a draft or all men and women under 26.

no

that's a deal breaker - i won't support a party that does such a thing
posted by pyramid termite at 6:47 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


From Just Security, a brief round-up of coverage on the Afghanistan speech.

The call to put national security ahead of any other considerations and the announced neutrality toward how countries run their governments makes me fear for the future of human rights--under this administration, they will cease to have any legitimacy or weight. Any response to the speech from the Russian government yet?
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:48 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


What exactly is the goal in Afghanistan now? "Kill terrorists"? Which includes, what, everyone there?
posted by thelonius at 6:48 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think that if Trump wants military action, the unified Democratic response should be to demand a draft or all men and women under 26. No exceptions

Citizens: If this is the course the Republican majority wants the fiscally responsible position is to stop borrow and spending for the American Military. One of the reasons the United States won WWII was to tax the top earners at 90%. We, this rump section of Democrats therefore demand the Republicans to join us in the new 90% tax rate to not only pay for the military but also pay down the debt.


Signed - a couple of people who have D's associated with their name who never want to be re-elected.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:51 AM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


that's a deal breaker - i won't support a party that does such a thing

It's unfair to expect an "All Volunteer Army" to shoulder the burden.
posted by mikelieman at 6:51 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


"We will win" does sort of imply a definable win condition for the exercise, yes. Maybe someone will mention one at some point.

If we do get a new draft, can we at least put Buffalo Springfield back together for the duration?

Stop, children
What's that sound
Everybody look, an orange clown

posted by delfin at 6:53 AM on August 22, 2017 [31 favorites]


Can we not immediately convene the circular firing squad?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:53 AM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


Skeptics suggest that “folk politics” ...are a distraction

That's ok, we are going electric this fall.

Steve Bannon’s eyes seep, weep, and rheum between their heavy folding triple-parenthesis bags, blinking labiae, lonely dunes of flaking skin.

Sam Kriss, whoever that is, can fucking write. That triple parentheses dig is how you stuff a dog-whistle up the original whistler's coke-damaged nose.

ETA I looked up Kriss and of course he's a Brit, masters of the poison pen on a different level.
posted by spitbull at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [32 favorites]


Anyone who runs is a terrorist. Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined terrorist.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah we have had the draft debate here a few hundred times, and it tends to be polarizing.
posted by spitbull at 6:57 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


it's not just the merits of compulsory service vs volunteer - it's also empire vs democracy, a fight democracy has been losing
posted by pyramid termite at 6:57 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Although "a circular firing squad of progressives" has a nice ring to it, like "gazebo of nazis."
posted by spitbull at 6:58 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's literally gobsmacking that this is a thing. I mean, I literally feel like someone's smacked me in the gob, my jaw is hanging so low. I'm not American so I guess my perspective is maybe different but my country will follow yours along like the slavish little lapdog it is so this is something that's going to affect my world too. This *thing* that Tr*mp is proposing is monstrous.
posted by h00py at 6:59 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


The only service that I even kind of want to be compulsory would be community service (not punitive, more like Americorps), so that the service gives back to the community. Either that or expand the availability of government jobs, which would fulfill civil service requirements.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:00 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not talking about the hypothetical draft, by the way.
posted by h00py at 7:02 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


So of course the one guy arrested for carrying a gun and tactical gear at the Boston anti-fascist march turns out to be a member (and founder) of the "Liberty State Militia," one Nathan Mizrahi.

His girlfriend is quoted in the Boston Globe article, by Jan Ransom:

“It’s crap,” said Holly Blake, 47, who traveled four hours from New York to attend his arraignment. “He wasn’t there to cause a fight.”

Blake said she and Mizrahi are cofounders of the Liberty State Militia and that he attended the rally to protect speaker Tammy Lee, a member of the American Freedom Keepers. That group seeks to “uphold the constitutional protection of all American’s right to free speech,” according to the group’s Facebook page.

posted by spitbull at 7:05 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


anya32: I just do not get it - is it rapture that helps people feel ok about the destruction of the planet and the deaths of countless people and animals? They will not be here for it? As far as I know, climate change is an equal opportunity disaster.

On this point, the latest episode of On The Media podcast, particularly the segment "How The Environment Got Political," in which William Ruckelshaus is interviewed about his role as the first head of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 1970 under Nixon, and his return from 1983 through 1985 he returned as EPA Administrator under Ronald Reagan. The piece gives a good history of the EPA and how the environmental movement in the US started as a strong bipartisan effort, and continued that way with some pendulum swings back and forth, predominantly because of public outcry. I think it was Ruckleshaus who had a great line about Nixon deciding to get in front of the angry mob heading towards him to demand he address the environment and pretended it was (or turned it into) a parade with him leading the way.

Reagan fucked up and tried to hamper the EPA, but memories of people dying because of terrible air quality and burning rivers were strong enough that people demanded a change, so he got rid of Anne Gorsuch (yes, the mother of Neil Gorsuch) and put Ruckelshaus back in charge, and he brought back public trust in the EPA, which in turn brought back public trust in US companies.

The Dems overcorrected for Reagan's roll-backs, and George Bush was the last Republican President to promote environmental care. He lost his re-election bid to Clinton and Gore, and Gore was the strong environmentalist. Democrats were champions for the environment so much so that the GOP realized they couldn't be more environmental than the Dems, so instead chose to be anti-environmental and court businesses who would profit off of that direction (that wasn't said, but that's what I took away, when they said that environmental stewardship had strong bipartisan support). Enter the politicization of the environment.

And because major visible, tangible, deadly pollution hadn't been an issue for decades, and because climate change is 1) too big for some people to fathom, 2) can be aligned with religious beliefs (in the end of the world? Unclear from that segment), and/or 3) it's still intangible except as extreme weather (which, as a later segment points out, now can generally be directly attributed to human influences, but that's another topic).

In summary: climate change is still treated as "natural" (or even "the will of God) and it's not extreme enough to make people really freak out and demand that something be done, plus environmental issues have been politicized due in part to how the parties pursued (and promoted) environmental policies in past years. Plus, the media is culpable for the way the stories have been told.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on August 22, 2017 [44 favorites]


I just got an email from Hilary Clinton introducing her new organization Onward Together, which appears to assist and promote other political groups like Indivisible et al. I'm all for it.

I also had the a chance to see Wonder Woman finally, and it was just as inspirational as I'd suspected a movie about a strong, powerful woman in a fight to save the world from international disaster would be.

STOP MAKING ME CRY, HILLARY. SOB.
posted by lydhre at 7:23 AM on August 22, 2017 [41 favorites]


spitbull: “He wasn’t there to cause a fight.”

Words matter - if you bring a gun and tactical armor, you're not there because you expect a calm debate, you're expecting a fight. You can say you're not there to "cause" a fight, so instead you're there to fight back, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on August 22, 2017 [19 favorites]


I don't know about a draft, but there is a problem with the all-volunteer military becoming a class apart from mainstream America. I think it makes it easier to accept war, because the people actually going to fight are some nebulous "them" who "we" can thank for their service and nebulously "support" while having no skin in the game.

I took a friend of mine to the Summer of Love exhibit at the De Young for her birthday - and she pointed out that the anti-war protests and sentiment got such a strong foothold because of the draft. Being sent off to war was something that could happen to you, if you were male. Now it's something that people volunteer for (even if it's to escape poverty or get money for college).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:26 AM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


I am in favor of a draft specifically and exclusively for the children of federal-level elected officials who do not already have another close family member serving or who have not served themselves. /modest proposal
posted by spitbull at 7:30 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


(and founder) of the "Liberty State Militia," one Nathan Mizrahi.

Dude, your name in Hebrew literally means G-d gave (Natan) East (Mizrahi)... How are you a white supremacist?
posted by Sophie1 at 7:31 AM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't know about a draft, but there is a problem with the all-volunteer military becoming a class apart from mainstream America.

And yet, combined with "Communist propaganda" pointing out the raw deal various minorities were getting in the 1960's the draft and its effect did create a whole "American's Vietnam" position. And civil rights.

All that's needed is a draft and history is back to rhyming.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:39 AM on August 22, 2017


Dude, your name in Hebrew literally means G-d gave (Natan) East (Mizrahi)... How are you a white supremacist?

I would bet folding money he's a Christian fundy with a Judaism fetish and that isn't his birth name. Just a hunch.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:10 AM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Louise Linton Instagram controversy has been picked up by Vanity Fair and Town and Country which sports this provoking subhead: Steve Mnuchin's glamazon wife is giving Melania a run for her money.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Words matter - if you bring a gun and tactical armor, you're not there because you expect a calm debate, you're expecting a fight.

I fully believe most people who do this shit do not, in fact, expect a fight. The fact that any fraction of them do expect (or plan) a fight makes it all terrifying and not okay, so that doesn't change how seriously it must be taken.

Which makes it extra infuriating how most of these guys are really only there for the world's most dickish form of cosplay.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:14 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


Democrats have to win elections again, and run on policies that are popular, easy, relatable, and cut across both the OOT lost voters and motivate the 2016 holdouts to come back. Bringing back the draft is about the last thing that would do that. There's one last chance to save America from decending into to a Republican kleptocracy and personality cult of AmeriTrump branded Juche, and that's taking back the House in 2018. Even if on some level it might be desireable to have national service, or a citizen participation military, that's not going to help save Democracy at this moment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 AM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


His intentions really don't matter; he violated Mass. gun laws, and that's why he was arrested.
posted by thelonius at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2017 [25 favorites]


From the Town & Country article:
Linton's novel—In Congo’s Shadow: One Girl’s Perilous Journey to the Heart of Africa—might be described as a cross between Wild, Heart of Darkness, and The English Patient. The fiction references aren’t unintentional. Some have accused her of fabricating parts of it, including details about how she escaped attacks by Congolese rebels. When an excerpt of the book entitled “How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare” was published in The Daily Telegraph, a firestorm ensued.
Holy fucking shit, that nonsense was her?!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2017 [30 favorites]


McClatchy: Trump aides plot a big immigration deal — that breaks a campaign promise
Donald Trump’s top aides are pushing him to protect young people brought into the country illegally as children — and then use the issue as a bargaining chip for a larger immigration deal — despite the president’s campaign vow to deport so-called Dreamers.

The White House officials want Trump to strike an ambitious deal with Congress that offers Dreamers protection in exchange for legislation that pays for a border wall and more detention facilities, curbs legal immigration and implements E-verify, an online system that allows businesses to check immigration status, according to a half-dozen people familiar with situation, most involved with the negotiations
...


“They are holding this out as a bargaining chip for other things,” said Ira Mehlman, a spokesman with the Federation for American Reform, a group that opposes protecting Dreamers and is in talks with the administration.
Using dreamers' lives as bargaining chips so they can pay for their fucking wall...
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 AM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


BREAKING: U.S. sanctions Chinese and Russian companies and individuals for conducting business with North Korea (Carol Morello, Washington Post)
As part of a broad effort to isolate North Korea, the Treasury Department on Tuesday placed sanctions on Chinese and Russian individuals and firms it said had conducted business with the country in ways that advanced its missile and nuclear weapons program.

The sanctions against 10 companies and six individuals are designed to disrupt the economic ties that have allowed Pyongyang to continue funding its missile and nuclear program despite strict United Nations sanctions prohibiting it.

China in particular has been sore point. Though Beijing has tried to restrict transactions and supported an escalating series of U.N. sanctions, many Chinese companies continue to do business with the regime by supplying technology and hardware for its missiles.
Not really sure what to make of this policy, especially with all the 'fire and fury' nonsense from...2 weeks ago? *facepalm* Like, usually it's more effective to set boundaries that you can actually enforce before leaping to threatening nuclear war.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sane gun law is such a rarity in the US it must be a shock for these fuckers to encounter it.
posted by Artw at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Which makes it extra infuriating how most of these guys are really only there for the world's most dickish form of cosplay.

Maybe the counter-protesters should start showing up in WWII GI costumes. Rosie the Riveter cosplay. Whatever reminds these chucklefucks that they're being "un-American" to the point of absurdity.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:31 AM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]




5,000 Donald Trump-shaped ecstasy tablets were seized by police in Germany

For realism they should cut the MDMA with ex-lax.
posted by Talez at 8:37 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


For counter-protesting cosplayers, the Union Army uniform would be a nice touch. Allows one to yell "Sir! Drop the banner of treason at once!" to anyone holding the Confederate flag. Or yell at the nazis: "We will not reforge the chains Father Abraham has broken!"

Or march alongside the faux Confederates while singing "John Brown's Body" or The Marching Song of the First Arkansas Colored Regiment. It's certain to make the boys in gray (or camo) nervous.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:44 AM on August 22, 2017 [24 favorites]


For counter-protesting cosplayers, the Union Army uniform would be a nice touch. Allows one to yell "Sir! Drop the banner of treason at once!" to anyone holding the Confederate flag.

Or we could, you know, live in the present, unlike the white power wackjobs. Plus I'm not sure "one wore blue, and one wore grey" would do much to help eliminate the BothSides-ism.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:49 AM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


cjelli: Trump’s private deliberations — detailed in interviews with more than a dozen senior administration officials and outside allies — revealed a president un­attached to any particular foreign-policy doctrine, but willing to be persuaded as long as he could be seen as a strong and decisive leader.

FTF everyone, forever. With the exception of his unrelenting support of Nazis, of course.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:52 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


When you're photographing Trump's cabinet, what kind of shutter speed should you use to avoid firings/resignations?
posted by adept256 at 8:52 AM on August 22, 2017 [29 favorites]


The Louise Linton Instagram controversy has been picked up by Vanity Fair and Town and Country

It's petty as fuck, but the amount of schadenfreude I'm getting from Louise Linton getting savaged by Vanity Fair is making my morning better.

Based on the angle of the Town and Country article (Glamazon! Just like Melania!), I'm guessing Linton's publicist put the heavy on their contact there, especially because it's like the fucking Bible for that set, and particularly given what the Vanity Fair article mentions:
For those of you keeping score at home, Linton manages to both complain about how much she sacrifices in taxes while shaming the woman for not earning as much; suggesting that she and her husband, who made a significant amount of money at Goldman Sachs before running a “foreclosure machine,” have given more to their country than their haters ever could. Then there’s strategic use of the curled bicep emoji, the blowing kisses face, and “Lololol”; and, of course, the coup de grâce—“you’re adorably out of touch.”

...

In June, ahead of her nuptials to Mnuchin, the 36-year-old actress sat down with Town & Country to talk about all of the many diamonds she would be wearing for the big day, including but not limited to her very large engagement ring, her diamond wedding band, a diamond bracelet, two pairs of diamond earrings, a couple of diamond necklaces, a pair of diamond earrings she had turned into a cocktail ring, and a diamond brooch of two parrots kissing a pearl. (Nor is it the first time she’s found herself at the center of controversy, having self-published a memoir about her gap year in Africa that was widely mocked as a stereotype-laden white savior fantasy, and which resulted in calls for Zambia to demand an apology from Scotland, where Linton was born and raised.)
*KISSES FINGERS, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GIVE THE CUT DIRECT*
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:53 AM on August 22, 2017 [50 favorites]


Faint of Butt: German police seize 5,000 Donald Trump-shaped ecstasy tablets

Talez: For realism they should cut the MDMA with ex-lax.

And you could consider the image of the tablets themselves fair warning - it's a bloaty looking cartoon Trump face, making one of his classic "serious/pooping face."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 AM on August 22, 2017


Yeah, I'm not sure I'd encourage the Civil War framing. But they're calling for actual National Socialism in the here-and-now and given their video-game level mentality I think it's good to remind them that they're the stock villains in Call of Civic Duty 2017.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


FTF everyone, forever. With the exception of his unrelenting support of Nazis, of course.

A tutting Putin in the corner holds up a pee tape.
posted by Artw at 8:55 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


German police seize 5,000 Donald Trump-shaped ecstasy tablets

Well, I guess that's one way to stop me from taking Ecstasy.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:55 AM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


La Linton is probably peeved over her ugly yellow hair. WHO is her colorist?? (Yep, I'm catty.)
posted by orrnyereg at 8:57 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, I guess that's one way to stop me from taking Ecstasy.

I guess it *was* invented by Nazis.
posted by Artw at 8:58 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Decisively walking back what he spent a half-decade claiming to support.

And yet NPR (and presumably other members of the so-called "liberal media" will still report "Trump said x" as if that statement has any value.

There is no reason to believe, and every reason to doubt, that Trump even knows what he's talking about with any given statement, and certainly that any statement of his reflects actual opinions, beliefs, intentions. The President has no credibility; the media need to stop pretending he does.
posted by Gelatin at 8:59 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


OMG some politicians, journalists, and ordinary citizens really do have an abused spouse mentality towards Trump, it is so awful and creepy. "He read off a teleprompter! He's changed!"
posted by supercrayon at 10:14 PM on August 21

I am not sure if I would put it in those terms, but I do think that many media personalities simply cannot handle -- personally or professionally -- that someone who so blatantly rips up social and political norms is president, nor the fact that he was elected by a substantial minority of the citizens of the Republic. So they need to try to make things "normal."
posted by dhens at 10:18 PM on August 21

The President has no credibility; the media need to stop pretending he does.
posted by Gelatin at 11:59 AM on August 22


Gelatin and supercrayon and dhens, you beautiful people, I've been saying these things so many times to so many people that I'm blue in the face. When will they start believing it??
posted by Melismata at 9:07 AM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Not before they've forgotten the Nazi connections are real, I'd bet.
posted by Artw at 9:09 AM on August 22, 2017


I guess it *was* invented by Nazis.

MDMA predates WWI tho...
posted by Justinian at 9:13 AM on August 22, 2017


It does seem redundant to point out the Afghanistan strategy is a backflip. It's his pattern, it may be in his repertoire of business-bro powerplays. He states his opinion and contradicts it within 140 characters. Like a dynamic wildcard enigma that keeps you guessing, perhaps to disguise the fact he really doesn't have an opinion, just a brand. Who knows? Maybe he thinks people will only remember the parts they wanted to hear. It honestly seems to be working on the true-believers.

Expecting him to be consistent with anything he said half a decade ago is pointless.
posted by adept256 at 9:14 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Nazis were super into meth, so that works.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:16 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


LGM tears down Maggie Haberman's self absolution: Don’t Look At Us — We Didn’t Do It
And this is why the media wants us to talk only about Clinton’s campaign — its performance was simply not defensible. And while Clinton isn’t running again, most of the people responsible have the same jobs or have failed upward.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 AM on August 22, 2017 [22 favorites]


I read the controversy about this Linton person's "book" last year. I'm glad to know that it's been withdrawn from sale.

Is she in the news because she has spent the year since doing astonishingly selfless charity work that has transformed her morally and spiritually and vouchsafed her some kind of redemptive ecstasy?

Not quite...


Selfish, narcissistic adult children are running amok in D.C.
posted by droplet at 9:19 AM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


Or march alongside the faux Confederates while singing "John Brown's Body" or The Marching Song of the First Arkansas Colored Regiment. It's certain to make the boys in gray (or camo) nervous.
Sojourner's Battle Hymn as performed by Sweet Honey in the Rock is an excellent version to inspire counter-songs.
posted by TwoStride at 9:20 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]




Well, What Do You Know? Turns Out The White Teens Wearing MAGA Hats Didn't Just Wander onto Howard's Campus

You don't say.
posted by Gelatin at 9:30 AM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


So are the Americans.

Dexedrine isn't actual meth, and I'm unaware of it being available to infantry and etc., but yeah.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:37 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Howard is not easy to get to, unless you're taking 30 highschool kids to see the bars on U-street. They knew exactly what they were doing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:50 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


What would it take to get federal employees to quit? Answer: everyone has their own line.
posted by suelac at 9:56 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well, What Do You Know? Turns Out The White Teens Wearing MAGA Hats Didn't Just Wander onto Howard's Campus

Because that title kind of doesn't state the blame well; it looks like they were on a tour group, and the adults brought them to Howard's cafeteria for lunch. They may or may not have been trying to create a provocation, but it does take a certain impressive sense of entitlement and obliviousness to assume that because you have thirty teens that need to be fed, you can just bring them to a college's cafeteria, meant for that college's students, to get it done.
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


suelac: What would it take to get federal employees to quit? Answer: everyone has their own line.
The point is, they don’t ask the people who have been in these roles to help. They don’t trust anyone. There’s infighting between the former Bush appointees, the sort of normal Republicans, and the Trump-campaign folks who have been appointed. Luckily, in our department, the Establishment Republicans are winning out. But conversations that I’ve overheard make me suspect that most of these people are waiting for Trump to totally explode, and they’re really excited about a Pence presidency.
Emphasis mine - so, that's one hope, that Pence will at least bring some normalcy to DC, so the federal orgs can get back to operating as they should, with orderly shifts to the left or right as the administration changes.

Of course, that assumes that Pence undoes what Trump has set up to destroy the institutions, like HUD and EPA, that are forces for unquestionable good. For example:
We were terrified when Scott PruittTrump’s EPA administrator, who sued the agency 14 times as Oklahoma’s attorney general, was nom­inated. He seemed to be somebody who under­stood the legal underpinnings of our work and the ways to legally unbind it. He’s competent in the wrong ways. The only thing that was really a blow to my work was a ruling on a pesticide that affects brain development in children. Pruitt came out and said that they would not ban it completely. It’s devastating to me.
Emphasis mine, again. Would Pence get rid of the saboteurs in command? Or would he waffle his next few years away, letting the rot and corruption of these institutions spread until these systems need to be rebuilt, again?
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


That was 100% on purpose. The cafeterias in any number of federal buildings are open to the public. Howard isn't even near any of the typical high school sightseeing stops.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:07 AM on August 22, 2017 [18 favorites]


cjelli: and doesn't quite allege (but certainly comes close to alleging) either that the Carson's are using his leadership of HUD for personal profit (or at the very least funneling HUD money to friends for their profit) or that they're covering for Carson not being up to the job.

God damnit, is this really the legacy of Trump? Bolstering the Nazis, which gets all the attention, while he and his cronies can profit off of the agencies they are supposed to lead?

THIS IS CIVIL WAR PROFITEERING. Fomenting chaos and confusion so you can take the money and run, while people are trying to find out what's on fire today.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:08 AM on August 22, 2017 [40 favorites]


Would Pence get rid of the saboteurs in command? Or would he waffle his next few years away, letting the rot and corruption of these institutions spread until these systems need to be rebuilt, again?

do you really need to ask?
posted by entropicamericana at 10:08 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


do you really need to ask?
Well, yes.
posted by thelonius at 10:11 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


he's a republican, isn't he?
posted by entropicamericana at 10:16 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


They may or may not have been trying to create a provocation

Oh, please. As noted in the article (practically the entire second and third paragraphs, even), there's almost nothing that you would take a class of teenagers to, let alone the ones that are totally cool with MAGA hats, around Howard. It's not a tourist destination unless you're specifically looking for the history of HBCUs, or maybe urban planning over the last several decades in DC. This was 100% a provocation, the kids probably knew it, the ones wearing the hats almost certainly knew it, and the teachers definitely knew it.

A lot of tourists have huge entitlement issues around DC (especially the "my tax dollars pay for this!" morons), and more than a few have their own racist agendas, like that dumbass Tea Partier that crapped his pants over the possibility of riding the Green Line. I'm not going to start giving people like these racist shitstains the benefit of the doubt when they very clearly went out of their way, both physically and politically, to be racist shitstains.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:17 AM on August 22, 2017 [45 favorites]


The 30 white kids from rural Pennsylvania were just at the African-American Civil War Museum, and the closest lunch spot was the Howard food court 6 blocks away, past 2 McDonalds, several Subways and a Chipolte, not to mention about 100 different bars and ethnic carryout places. Innocent mistake.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:18 AM on August 22, 2017 [54 favorites]


It's a good question about Pence, actually. I've heard some people say that Pence is an idiot without an original thought in his head, and only does what his followers/handlers tell him to do. I've also heard people say that he's the devil, mostly because of his definitely horrible views on women and abortion.

I've heard people here from Indiana say that they were so glad to see him go, but that was a while ago. What are your updated opinions?
posted by Melismata at 10:20 AM on August 22, 2017


I've heard some people say that Pence is an idiot without an original thought in his head, and only does what his followers/handlers tell him to do. I've also heard people say that he's the devil, mostly because of his definitely horrible views on women and abortion.

So what I'm hearing is that he'll probably be an evil idiot who only does what his handlers tell him to do if it's horrible to women and abortion.
posted by numaner at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


During his time in Indiana Pence was a particularly incompetent brand of Christian dominionist Republican who managed to lose most of his support among the GOP-led state legislature. My worry is that as president he'd be so easy to get along with by comparison to Trump that Congress would fall in line by default.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:26 AM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


I've heard some people say that Pence is an idiot without an original thought in his head, and only does what his followers/handlers tell him to do

Yeah, it's hard to calculate what will happen if/when 45 is kicked out. Does Pence clean house and put in his own people, or does he just keep riding on the train with Trump's people, because that's easiest? It's not like Pence has any history of caring about the environment, public health, national parks, housing the homeless, or so forth. I suspect we know the answer: some of the policies will shift more overtly to prioritize the theocratic goals of the new administration, but the rest will stay the same.
posted by suelac at 10:28 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dexedrine isn't actual meth

NOT ALL AMPHETAMINES
posted by msalt at 10:31 AM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


The story on Pence that stuck with me goes something this:

Once as Governor of Indiana, Pence decided he needed to invite the State Democratic Leadership over for a relaxed social dinner. Maybe they could find some common ground, maybe not. But at least they could appear to be enjoying each others presence and the journalists would love it. Anyway, the Dems go to the Governor's Mansion and Pence's wife is sufficiently charming and sociable. Nothing too awkward, at least until Pence starts referring to her as "Mother" and the Dems wonder if they've walked into some kind of sick fetish dinner. But then everyone gets to talking, and the Dems realize that Pence is unable to have a conversation without talking points. Not a political conversation. Just a social one, about like the weather or sports. Everything they try to talk about during dinner Pence responds with some canned answer, exactly like what he would say on the radio.

I can't remember where I read it. But yeah, Pence is a robot and his head is filled with Evangelical sawdust. He's George W without the charisma.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:33 AM on August 22, 2017 [52 favorites]


He's George W without the charisma.

OMG that's a scary image.
posted by Melismata at 10:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


"When you're photographing Trump's cabinet, what kind of shutter speed should you use to avoid firings/resignations?" You have to get out of your time machine, no just peeking out of the hatch to snap pictures of the past. You have to linger at least three seconds to keep accurate records of the WH staff, and department heads, at any level of play.
posted by Oyéah at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2017


A lot of tourists have huge entitlement issues around DC ... I'm not going to start giving people like these racist shitstains the benefit of the doubt when they very clearly went out of their way, both physically and politically, to be racist shitstains.

Oh let me be clear, I'm not saying I don't think the teachers were awful/racist! I'm just saying I don't think they were trying to create a confrontation, at the very least, because the liability if something had gone wrong is insane. I'm just saying I think they're a different flavor of awful which is still pretty fucking awful.

Like what it sounds like honestly is they did one of those bullshit "look at the terrible streets of DC, how horrible, how is this our capitol" poverty tours that absolutely is a thing (I've seen those tour groups when I was in NYC and loathed them with a passion) and then were too scared to eat at one of the numerous restaurants in the area, and figured the safest place to eat was someplace that at least looked 'respectable', and why should it be a problem? Doesn't everyone want to cater to them? Aren't they the very best America has to offer, at least in their own minds, and shouldn't their needs and wishes always come first?
posted by corb at 10:37 AM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


I can't remember where I read it. But yeah, Pence is a robot and his head is filled with Evangelical sawdust. He's George W without the charisma.

I hate when people say this. W is not a stupid man. Ignorant maybe, underinformed sure, but not stupid.

Mike Pence, on the other hand.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:38 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


It kills me that the biggest winner of the 2016 election was George Bush's reputation.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:40 AM on August 22, 2017 [126 favorites]


So Billy Joel just did something. (No, don't go anywhere, this is relevant.)

Usually he stays out of politics during his shows, stating that he doesn't think anyone "wants to be lectured about politics" at a concert. However - at a performance Monday night, right before coming on stage for his encore, he pinned a Star of David emblem to his jacket lapel, as a sort of silent denunciation of the neo-Nazi sentiment in the country. (Just in case it bears stating: he is indeed Jewish, and not Italian as several fans might have assumed over the years.)

He also invited Patty Smyth to the stage for a duet of her song "Good Bye to You" - while they projected a slide show of the various White House Officials who've been booted from the Trump administration.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:40 AM on August 22, 2017 [81 favorites]


To me, Pence is quite dangerous because he's pretty dumb and really, really zealously religious. That makes him a credulous true believer, and those people can be persuaded (or persuade themselves) to do really terrible things.

Also, his own, very repeatedly self-described, personal fealty is to his religious beliefs first, his political party second, and his country third. So at best, he's tertiarily a nationalist, only after satisfying what he thinks his god wants and what his partisan power club wants, which means that at no point does he consider himself loyal or beholden to the Constitution of the U.S., the people of the U.S. or the world, or any principle or value that transcends dogma or power. That's a dangerous person, and there is clearly a shadow cabal of Christian Dominionists who have coalesced around him.

So he's dumb, but dumb like a fox, and I really have come to consider him more potentially dangerous than Trump. Trump is chaotic but entirely and reliably Trump-focused. (In fact, I was surprised to see him show loyalty to white supremacists after Charlottesville, not because that's horrible and he's horrible, but because I'm amazed that he may actually have some sort of worldview that isn't utterly Trump-centric, even if it's 'non-white people are garbage'--recognizing that other people are real is something I didn't think his brain was capable of doing.) Pence, on the other hand, is a soldier on a mission, and quite likely willing to sacrifice himself (certainly any of the rest of us) to achieve his goals. His crazy, crazy Dominionist goals.

(Thank goodness Trump's personality disorder(s) keep him from becoming a True Believer; if he ever does find some kind of non-Self religious belief before we kick his ass out of office we will really be in deep shit.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:40 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


Yay I found a link with video of "goodbye to you".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:45 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


filthy light thief: We were terrified when Scott PruittTrump’s EPA administrator, who sued the agency 14 times as Oklahoma’s attorney general, was nom­inated. He seemed to be somebody who under­stood the legal underpinnings of our work and the ways to legally unbind it. He’s competent in the wrong ways.

I've been thinking about this, and in light of the On The Media segment with William Ruckelshaus, who said that the EPA needs to promote the good things its doing to rebuild and maintain public support. And to a degree, they have been, and they still are. I'm on an EPA public mailing list, where they promote the way they're using their funding for good, and the fines levied against non-compliant companies. For instance, the most recent email is titled "EPA Funds Innovative Research across the Country to Address State Environmental Issues" (link to official press release), which includes such positive language as this:
“EPA encourages the use of innovative scientific approaches to help solve important environmental problems,” said EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. “By working with our state partners and engaging the public we can foster creative solutions to these challenges.”

Among the partnerships is one between EPA Region 6 and the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality to develop a low-cost sensor to detect harmful air emissions known as volatile organic compounds (VOCs). These compounds contribute to the formation of ozone, a significant source of air pollution in many parts of Texas. The sensor will use advanced emission-detection technologies to identify specific types of VOCs. The resulting data will improve understanding of local sources of air pollution, how to reduce it, and potential cost-savings for facilities.
Meanwhile, the EPA under Pruitt is trying to roll back protections on pesticides, which states are fighting (AP via L.A. Times, July 6, 2017)
Several states are seeking to join a legal challenge to a Trump administration decision to keep a widely used pesticide on the market despite studies showing it can harm children's brains.

Led by New York, the coalition filed a motion Wednesday to intervene in a legal fight over the continued spraying of chlorpyrifos on food. Massachusetts, Maryland, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia are also seeking to join the suit, which is pending before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco.
Somehow, the EPA's effort to "block job-killing regulations" or whatever bullshit Trumpian reasoning they'll tie their actions to don't get pressers, at least via the same channel. So I'll do it for them - here's another weekend project, to mimic the EPA presser format to promote the people-killing that Pruitt is trying to do.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:47 AM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


TPM's Sam Thielmann explores Why Did a Russia-Friendly Icelandic Fund Want To Invest In Trump Projects?
When reporters combed through the Panama Papers last year, they recognized a familiar name cropping up: the FL Group, a now-defunct Icelandic bank that in 2013 had been accused in a lawsuit of developing a scheme, ultimately never realized, to avoid $250 million in taxes on a $2 billion investment in real estate projects, many of them tied to President Donald Trump. [...]

FL Group was one of a number of Icelandic banks with surprisingly deep ties to the Russian billionaire class ascendant in the wake of the dissolution of the Soviet system, according to Henry. The wealth of the post-USSR oligarch class was so directly tied to the Icelandic economy, in fact, that Russian president Vladimir Putin offered $5.4 billion to bail out Iceland’s banks during the global financial crisis, though the deal never went through.

The Icelandic bank managed to seal a deal to invest $50 million with the developer Bayrock Group, a firm run by two men convicted of stock fraud in the 1990’s, Felix Sater and Salvatore Lauria, alongside a former Soviet official named Tevfik Arif. A former finance director at Bayrock, Jody Kriss, sued the company in 2013 for allegedly misrepresenting Sater’s role. In an interview with Bloomberg, Kriss said another Icelandic bank called offering a counter investment to FL Group’s proposed $50 million, and Sater and Arif told him to stick with that firm because it was “closer to Putin.” [...]

According to Kriss’s complaint, FL Group bought 62 percent of four Bayrock properties, which was the developer’s entire stake. Those properties were a development called Waterpointe on a blighted 20-acre property in Whitestone, New York that Bayrock had agreed to detoxify; Trump SoHo; a Trump tower in Phoenix, Arizona; and the Trump Merrimac in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The deal would have left FL Group with profits from the four properties, but structured the investment as a loan. That way, the firm could avoid taxes on the dividends and call them “contingent interest,” a process Henry described as “asset stripping.” That process is so complex, and the offshore finance rules so arcane, that all Henry would say was that it “has been illegal.” It’s a deal Trump would have had to sign off on.
Talking Points Memo have put together a very good story tying together Trump associate Felix Sater, shady Russian-backed banking deals in Iceland, and investment in Trump Soho and other Trump properties. Those tax returns are probably full of evidence of criminal financial arrangements. I sure hope we'll get to see them all. I'd also like to have a full explanation for what exactly in the fuck various USG law enforcement agencies have been doing working with a criminal like Sater.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:47 AM on August 22, 2017 [31 favorites]


I'm just saying I don't think they were trying to create a confrontation, at the very least, because the liability if something had gone wrong is insane. I'm just saying I think they're a different flavor of awful which is still pretty fucking awful.

This entire story feels fishy to me. There's no comment from the school district, no comment from the chaperones with the trip and no names given. And the Buzzfeed article has the bit about Vandee being coached through her answers. I feel like this was intended to provoke something:
There are many questions surrounding the high school students' timeline of events: The teenagers said neither they, nor the school, knew Howard was an HBCU before going to campus for lunch. They also say the trip to the historically black school wasn't on the itinerary, and they're not sure why they went. And one of the students appeared to be coached during her telephone interview with BuzzFeed News.

BuzzFeed News reached out to Union City High School and a chaperone students say was on the trip, but has not received a response. . . . During the interview, Vandee paused for lengthy periods of time before answering questions, sometimes repeating answers being murmured audibly by someone else in the background.

Asked about who she was repeating, she said she was with her grandmother, but denied that anyone was telling her what to say.
I mean, it's not the most important thing that's happened in the past week, and it's not the worst thing that's happened to POC in the last week, but I feel like it was definitely intended to stir shit.
posted by gladly at 10:50 AM on August 22, 2017 [36 favorites]


During his time in Indiana Pence was a particularly incompetent brand of Christian dominionist Republican who managed to lose most of his support among the GOP-led state legislature. My worry is that as president he'd be so easy to get along with by comparison to Trump that Congress would fall in line by default.

It really sucks but I see the most likely result of Trump's ouster being his repudiation as "no true Scotsman" & Pence stepping in to push Dominionism in response, probably as repentance for our misdeeds in electing Trump. We need to turn away from his indulgent lifestyle, his condoning racism, etc. & turn to Jesus to make America truly great again.
posted by scalefree at 10:51 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


As a side thought, I find that's what frustrates me most about the continued think-pieces, punditry and etc. that try to understand Trump or Pence, or scrutinize them, or whatever: they're actually pretty basic to understand, even if their decisions and actions continually surprise, offend, outrage, harm and so on.

I expect it's hard to just, like, admit this and move forward because 1) many people's work is this kind of airtime-and-page-space-filling "scrutiny" and beanplating; and 2) to do so is to shift focus to the really, really hard part: the mundane, long, achingly slow and difficult work of resistance and opposition. It's a slog and a grind and none of us in the land of caring about others and the earth and having compassion and all that want to do it (because it suuuucks) and have to deal with all of our own feelings and emotions to get to the actions that are necessary to resist and fight (resentment, anger, fear, exhaustion, so on).

As it is with individual human beings, so it is collectively: denial is seductively easier in the short-term, even on a vast scale.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:55 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


It doesn't really matter whether those girls "accidentally" came to Howard or not, the narrative is 100% the 2017 version of Emmet Till whistling at a white woman. Conveniently right before thousands of white parents from white suburbs fret about sending their white daughters off to college.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:59 AM on August 22, 2017 [25 favorites]


Usually he stays out of politics during his shows, stating that he doesn't think anyone "wants to be lectured about politics" at a concert.

How did we end up back in a world where "Jews and persons of color are human beings" is a political statement?
posted by Slothrup at 10:59 AM on August 22, 2017 [24 favorites]


Trump: “You don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. And it’s a very, very important process to me and it’s an important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly, and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement.”

President Donald Trump incorrectly labeled violence in the Philippines on Thursday a "terrorist attack" just minutes before officials said it was the result of a suspected robbery.

That display of belligerent ignorance was just the entree. It didn't get much coverage because he said it moments before announcing the rejection of the Paris agreement in a speech so laden with alternative facts bullshit it was completely overshadowed.
posted by adept256 at 11:00 AM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


I feel like it was definitely intended to stir shit.

It's quite evocative of a James O'Keefe stunt, isn't it?

What's scary is that sometimes his stunts, shabby as they seem to us, work.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:05 AM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


They may or may not have been trying to create a provocation, but it does take a certain impressive sense of entitlement and obliviousness to assume that because you have thirty teens that need to be fed, you can just bring them to a college's cafeteria, meant for that college's students, to get it done.

It's not uncommon, actually, and can be in the interest of the institution too. Classes at Howard didn't start till yesterday, so that food court was delighted to have the business. My friend Tim - who is a tour guide in DC and has a superb opinion piece in wapo today about confederate statues - says he's taken groups there.

He also says that he regularly suggests to the kids who show up in their MAGA hats that they should think about the reaction they're likely to get wearing them here. Like these two instagoofuses, the most strident of those are the ones who are in full on teen troll mode.
posted by phearlez at 11:13 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just saw the video clip of this bit of 45's remarks yesterday:
...when one citizen suffers an injustice, we all suffer together. Loyalty to our nation demands loyalty to one another.
and literally laughed out loud. The guy who called for a Russian cyberattack against the U.S. openly on stage on national television, lecturing others about loyalty to the country.

And of course the bits about "our bravest" and what "the young men and women we sent to fight our wars abroad deserve" are missing the punctuation "Unless they're trans!"
posted by XMLicious at 11:16 AM on August 22, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump : 1984 :: Pence : Handmaid's Tale
posted by kirkaracha at 11:18 AM on August 22, 2017 [29 favorites]


In case, like me, you skipped over some of the 1-perecenter anecdotes last night/ this a.m., a recap:

Mnuchin's wife is douchetastic (Yeah, Haberman byline.)

Democracy Dies a little more in the fawning tweet of a Wapo bigwig.

Oh, and despite trying to stay away from news and mellow by the water for even a few hours yesterday, that golf-cart crap just flipped me out. (Again I marvel at the mental contortions right-wingers must go through to NOT be pissed at the obvious major grifting of the govt. by this bunch of traitors.)
posted by NorthernLite at 11:19 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just saw the video clip of this bit of 45's remarks yesterday:

"...when one citizen suffers an injustice, we all suffer together. Loyalty to our nation demands loyalty to one another."

and literally laughed out loud. The guy who called for a Russian cyberattack against the U.S.



And called for his supporters to be violent toward protesters,

And crowed about being a sexual predator,

And thanked Putin for expelling our diplomats,

And said there were "fine people" in the crowd of neo-Nazis, and that there were "many, many sides" to the issue,

And called the other GOP presidential candidates adolescent names,

and,
and,
and...
posted by darkstar at 11:24 AM on August 22, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump : 1984 :: Pence : Handmaid's Tale

Given his love of literature and fire engines, I'd say Trump is to Fahrenheit 451

FAKE NEWS ALERT!
posted by adept256 at 11:36 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's very James O'Keefe. Let's also remember that MY talked about his next sociopathic project recruiting young stars and starlets, to debut in the fall.
posted by Yowser at 11:36 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Not to edit abuse, but I just saw the comment saying this kind of thing happens.

I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.
posted by Yowser at 11:38 AM on August 22, 2017


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.

Come to DC, there's entire families wearing their fashionable white supremacy gear in public every day. The cherry blossoms this year you couldn't swing a burning cross without hitting a set of identical blonde-haired-blue-eyed triplet teenage girls in MAGA hats practicing for their future careers on FOX News.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:41 AM on August 22, 2017 [34 favorites]


So "peace with honor", eh?
posted by thelonius at 11:46 AM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


- The Trump administration plans to negotiate with the Taliban and will pressure Pakistan to bring them to the negotiating table
- Declines to state how many more American troops will be sent to Afghanistan, and implies that no decision has actually been made yet, despite Trump's comments yesterday


I truly hope this brings an end to the US occupation of Afghanistan, but wow, it sounds like Nixon's strategy with Vietnam.
posted by Coventry at 11:47 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


- Summarize's US's current goals thusly: meant to tell Taliban "you will not win a battlefield victory. We may not win one, but neither will you."

Insurgencies don't need to win battlefield victories. Good Ford, but that statement was dumb when General Westmoreland was throwing it at the Viet Cong.
posted by Gelatin at 11:47 AM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.

I can. Demographics have been skewing more and more liberal for years, meaning that if you're a sixteen year old malcontent, then rebellion for rebellion's sake may no longer means taking up left leaning causes. Wearing a MAGA-hat is a way to differentiate yourself from what you see as 'group think' and 'political correctness'. I was a teenaged libertarian, and luckily for me I never had a compelling way to act on it, other than a single ill advised vote for Michael Badnerick that I'd love to take back. People claiming that extreme right ideology is 'the new punk rock' are completely wrong in most ways, but are actually operating from sound logic in others - especially if punk rock is being used as a shorthand for 'edgey rebellion with a large front-facing component'.
posted by codacorolla at 11:49 AM on August 22, 2017 [18 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.

"Stark Raving Dad"

Thanks to Bart leaving his lucky red hat in the load of washed white shirts, Homer wears a pink shirt to the nuclear power plant. He catches the attention of Mr. Burns, who pegs him as "some kind of free-thinking anarchist". He is promptly committed to a mental institution.

I'm having fond daydreams of this happening again and again all over America.
posted by adept256 at 11:51 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


W is not a stupid man. Ignorant maybe, underinformed sure, but not stupid.

Legacied into Yale with a dad who was political mucky muck and he pulled off a C?

W is dumb enough that he was born on third and ran backwards all the way to first base before the Daddy and the Supreme Court arranged for him to hit a home run.

Just because Trump is how-can-he-remember-to-breathe Dumb don't think W was not dumb. The big difference in performance is because W. inherited a functioning republican political machine.
posted by srboisvert at 11:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [40 favorites]


W could be what my Dad called "dumb like a fox."

Trump is just plain dumb.
posted by jgirl at 11:58 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Come to DC, there's entire families wearing their fashionable white supremacy gear in public every day.

Not that any of 'em actually live, here, mind. Either they're tourists from well outside the DMV, or they live so far into the suburbs they're only in the 'DC area' in the loosest technical sense.
posted by nonasuch at 11:59 AM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.

It's a cult of personality that is entirely based on trolling "the establishment" and making people cry. You saying that's not an attractive fandom for a 16-year-old? Because I would definitely beg to differ.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on August 22, 2017 [30 favorites]


W. is stupid, in my opinion, at least in the way that he is intellectually incurious, and also not a quick thinker. trump is also stupid in those ways. Bush, however, was always politically savvy insofar as he absolutely had to be (he is, in all ways, a rich, white boy coaster who will do the absolute minimum in any position he finds himself and everything will still work out because of his privilege). He was never a great politician, but he was always savvy enough to do what his handlers wanted him to.

trump doesn't have even that. he's a complete incompetent, who has gotten all of his success through his ability to bully using his influence and money. I'm convinced that the small success he has seen, is because someone with actual smarts was riding him: the producers of The Apprentice, whatever mob boss was suckling off his building projects, and the current GOP. Also, not to armchair diagnose, but trump seems genuinely unwell in many ways. If he was born dirt poor in Florida, I'm pretty sure he'd be dead by this point, as he self-medicated with drugs and had increasingly violent interactions with the state.
posted by codacorolla at 12:05 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


Is Howard even in session right now? Off season university cafeterias are pretty much food deserts in my experience - it is the catch-22 of academics that the summers are mostly student-less which is wonderful in terms of peace and quite but unfortunately comes with almost every service being shut down except maybe a coffee place.
posted by srboisvert at 12:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.
Yeah, basically the same as me running around wearing upside down crosses and black lipstick in 1992.
posted by xyzzy at 12:10 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Bush screwed the pooch in Afghanistan when he took his eye off the ball and invaded Iraq on false pretenses, giving us two unwinnable "wars."
posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's a cult of personality that is entirely based on trolling "the establishment" and making people cry. You saying that's not an attractive fandom for a 16-year-old? Because I would definitely beg to differ.

There was a 19ish year old bean pole at the campus gym I use wearing a Reagan-Bush campaign tank top. I guess that is what you have to do to be shockingly offensive now that punk is just another style.
posted by srboisvert at 12:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever.

The only negative moment during my visit to the National Museum of African American History and Culture this past fall (pre-election, even) was seeing some teenage sphincter wearing a MAGA hat walking through the galleries.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine why a 16 year old would be caught dead in public in a MAGA hat, but whatever

I live in a bleeding liberal bubble, and recently heard a less-bleeding liberal pastor say: "We are surprised and shocked by the hate, and it's because we have not been listening to them."
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


I have to say, as a mother of toddlers, that I'm pretty sure that the only "rebellious teenager" shit they could pull that would make me actually apoplectic would be MAGA hats or the 2028 equivalent.
posted by lydhre at 12:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


MAGA hats or the 2028 equivalent

I shudder at the thought of what that might be.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


W has both emotional and social intelligence. He understands social cues and how to manipulate them, but he also empathizes with other people and isn't a scumbag. This is why we remember him fondly and why people wanted to have a beer with him. He wasn't a facts and figures guy, and I wouldn't hire him to run a corner store, but he got people and people got him.

Trump is a whole other, darker, thing. He's got the social intelligence. He's a genius at manipulating people, branding, messaging, and communication. But he's almost sociopathic and incapable of empathizing with other human beings. Calling him stupid isn't accurate, even though he's analytically incurious and incapable of focusing. He instinctively knows how people think. He just doesn't care how we feel.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


Oh my god, I just realized it's going to be ironic vintage MAGA hats in 2028 too.
posted by lydhre at 12:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [25 favorites]


But he's almost sociopathic

Not sure about that almost.
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, basically the same as me running around wearing upside down crosses and black lipstick in 1992.

MAGA caps aren't just an unfortunate fashion choice. People who wear it do so largely because they know it's effectively a middle finger to other people. They know it makes people feel uncomfortable and less safe. The school busses full of kids in MAGA caps are some of the nastiest people I've ever come across. In contrast, the goths (and former goths) that I know are some of the nicest people on the planet.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [74 favorites]


W. is stupid, in my opinion, at least in the way that he is intellectually incurious, and also not a quick thinker. trump is also stupid in those ways. Bush, however, was always politically savvy insofar as he absolutely had to be (he is, in all ways, a rich, white boy coaster who will do the absolute minimum in any position he finds himself and everything will still work out because of his privilege). He was never a great politician, but he was always savvy enough to do what his handlers wanted him to.

W was a freaking AWOL stoner cokehead for crying out loud. He was not at all saavy. His father was probably the last of the old-school powerful machine politicians with his CIA connections, vice-presidency to presidency before the corporate kleptocracy purchased it all.

George Sr. was smart when made sure his son's team was long term old school machine Republicans like Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Stop lowering the bar so low that only Trump hits it. Bush Jr. was a moron. Bush Sr. was the last Republican president or candidate who could actually clear the "not a moron" bar. He was of course still an a asshole but that's entailed.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [45 favorites]


There was a 19ish year old bean pole at the campus gym I use wearing a Reagan-Bush campaign tank top

I've seen a shitload of these lately and I can't tell if they're "ironic" (for certain shitty values of "ironic") or anti-MAGA-but-still-shitty signaling. Or both.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:31 PM on August 22, 2017


Nothing too awkward, at least until Pence starts referring to her as "Mother" and the Dems wonder if they've walked into some kind of sick fetish dinner.

no, it's just old-fashioned and quaint - it's a rural midwest thing

so is repeating what you've been told mindlessly, at least for some ...
posted by pyramid termite at 12:36 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


He instinctively knows how people think.

Does he, though? I've never really seen any evidence of that. Trump knows a mark when he sees one, sure. I suppose he has a predator's instinct for recognizing other predators and gets that he needs to pander to them and thus either control or destroy them. But I don't see any real understanding of how people in general think, and I think his inability to do so is reflected in his chaotic relationship to everyone around him. He can sense weakness and he can sense strength, for very obviously stereotypical notions of those terms, but I don't think he understands how people actually think at all.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:36 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


It's striking that Trump came out yesterday with 'MORE TROOPS,' and Tillerson's spin on that today is 'MORE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TALIBAN (and also some troops I guess, but we haven't actually decided yet).'

I think that, having given up trying to control him, the remnants of the military and foreign policy establishment have decided simply to ignore him. They let him shout and fuss and then just keep cool and carry on. All they have to do is wait out his attention span, which doesn't last longer than a few days on any issue. See what happened to the trans military ban, for example.

Trump doesn't have any ability to actually effect substantive policy change, because his people are incompetent and allergic to actual work (propagating regs, etc.) No one in his administration knows how to do anything* except signing statements.

*exceptions are Scott Pruitt and Jeff Sessions. Fuck those guys.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:41 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yea, to be clear, no one who actually lives in DC except Republican strategists and Republican media members would be caught dead in a MAGA hat. The MAGA families are outside agitators of white grievance deliberately provoking the residents of DC with their hatewear.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


codacorolla: "Demographics have been skewing more and more liberal for years, meaning that if you're a sixteen year old malcontent, then rebellion for rebellion's sake may no longer means taking up left leaning causes."

It's wrong to put all the teenage MAGA wearing down to rebellion. A lot is going to be done by teens who parents and social group are avid Trump supporters. They are uncritically parroting their parents viewpoints.
posted by Mitheral at 12:45 PM on August 22, 2017 [31 favorites]


Fred Durst did the red hat thing first, and now it's ruined.
posted by gucci mane at 12:48 PM on August 22, 2017


W was a freaking AWOL stoner cokehead for crying out loud. He was not at all saavy.

He was, though. His ability to pretend to be a straight talkin' Texas self-made man (when in fact he was none of that) is what won him elections. Being able to understand that and capitalize upon it is most definitely political savvy. You're right, he's not the political operator that Clinton or Bush 1 were, but he also has definite skill on the election side of things.

W has both emotional and social intelligence. He understands social cues and how to manipulate them, but he also empathizes with other people and isn't a scumbag. This is why we remember him fondly and why people wanted to have a beer with him. He wasn't a facts and figures guy, and I wouldn't hire him to run a corner store, but he got people and people got him.

Trump is a whole other, darker, thing. He's got the social intelligence. He's a genius at manipulating people, branding, messaging, and communication. But he's almost sociopathic and incapable of empathizing with other human beings. Calling him stupid isn't accurate, even though he's analytically incurious and incapable of focusing. He instinctively knows how people think. He just doesn't care how we feel.


If you're not calling the guy who put his face all over the Iraq war in an effort to sell it a scumbag, then I'm not sure where you use that term.

trump's ability at social manipulation isn't uncommon, much less 'genius'. It's the sort of thing you find in any serial abuser, and if it wasn't backed by money and access, then it would be worthless. The man is not a mastermind - he's a well provisioned puppet who's an agreeable mix of suggestible and rich, which allows smarter people to point him in a direction and let him march.
posted by codacorolla at 12:49 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


Fred Durst did the red hat thing first, and now it's ruined.

This just means that Fred Durst ruined red hats years ago.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:56 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


ABC News: Glenn Simpson, key figure behind million-dollar 'dossier,' to face questions
A key figure behind the so-called “dossier” featuring uncorroborated and salacious allegations about then-candidate Donald Trump’s ties to Russia will be questioned by investigators from the Senate Judiciary Committee today about the funding and sources for the document.

During last year’s heated Republican primary race, Fusion GPS, a private research firm founded by former Wall Street Journal reporter Glenn Simpson, was initially paid about a million dollars by wealthy Republicans and then later worked for Democrats, all of whom wanted to dig up dirt on Trump and plant negative news stories, according to political operatives.

Simpson, who will appear in a closed session on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, hired the former MI6 agent Christopher Steele to compile the now infamous “dossier,” which alleged that members of the Trump campaign had colluded with Russian agents to damage Hillary Clinton, Trump’s Democratic opponent.
...
According to people briefed on the developments, Steele has met with the FBI and provided agents with the names of his sources for the allegations in the dossier, but it is unclear how much information lawmakers will be able to obtain from Simpson this week. Attorneys for Fusion GPS have indicated to the committee that its client relationships are confidential.
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2017 [12 favorites]


For realism they should cut the MDMA with ex-lax.

It shouldn't have been MDMA. Methamphetamine would have been more fitting, with bonus points for it being made to the original 1940s recipe.
posted by acb at 1:02 PM on August 22, 2017


Mitheral: It's wrong to put all the teenage MAGA wearing down to rebellion. A lot is going to be done by teens who parents and social group are avid Trump supporters. They are uncritically parroting their parents viewpoints.

Yeah, this matches the suburban New Englands kids I know: a lot of them just repeat garbled versions of what they overhear their parents saying, without understanding it -- much less thinking about it. (Or maybe their parents are confused, too?)
posted by wenestvedt at 1:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm kind of waiting for a "TRUMP L'OIL" headline from the NY Daily News
posted by kurumi at 1:10 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


Democracy Dies a little more in the fawning tweet of a Wapo bigwig.

Wow, the Washington Post's bureau chief is a complete moron. Or he's trolling? Really hard to tell.
posted by cell divide at 1:12 PM on August 22, 2017


Emails: Breitbart editor pledges to do 'dirty work' for Bannon, smears Ivanka
A self-described "email prankster" seemingly fooled top editors at Breitbart over the weekend into believing he was Steve Bannon, the fired White House chief strategist who returned to the right-wing website as executive chairman on Friday.

In the emails, Breitbart Editor-in-Chief Alex Marlow pledged that he and several other top editors would do Bannon's "dirty work" against White House aides. The emails were shared with CNN by the prankster.

In other emails, Marlow suggested he could have Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump ousted from the White House "by end of year" and shared a personal smear about their private lives, perhaps an indication of how low the website is willing to go to achieve its agenda.

posted by PenDevil at 1:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


Bush I had Lee Atwater for a campaign manager, so screw him.

(Don't let this happen. The Rs keep pushing things so far to the right that now Raygun and both Bushes start to seem OK. If tRump ever starts to seem "reasonable" we won't even be discussing it because everyone left of David Duke will be in a prison camp.)
posted by NorthernLite at 1:16 PM on August 22, 2017 [34 favorites]


the so-called “dossier” featuring uncorroborated and salacious allegations about then-candidate Donald Trump’s ties to Russia

Many of which have been subsequently corroborated, it should be pointed out.
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


(Added to my earlier comment, national treasure Bette Midler on Louise Linton.)
posted by NorthernLite at 1:21 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


In other emails, Marlow suggested he could have Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump ousted from the White House "by end of year" and shared a personal smear about their private lives, perhaps an indication of how low the website is willing to go to achieve its agenda.

CNN won't repeat the smear, but the email from the Brietbart editor says something like "best conspiracy on the entire internet is that Jared is an actual cuckold".
posted by cell divide at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is why we remember him fondly

Not me. I don't know anyone who does, actually, but I run in pretty left-wing circles.
posted by Coventry at 1:27 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


"best conspiracy on the entire internet is that Jared is an actual cuckold".

Like, the old-fashioned kind, whose wife just happens to be cheating, or the squicky porn kind?
posted by thelonius at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wonder how many of the dossier sources Steele gave to the FBI are dead Russians
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


These people are pretty consistent in their weirdo obsessions.
posted by Artw at 1:31 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is Howard even in session right now? Off season university cafeterias are pretty much food deserts in my experience - it is the catch-22 of academics that the summers are mostly student-less which is wonderful in terms of peace and quite but unfortunately comes with almost every service being shut down except maybe a coffee place.

Howard came back yesterday, so when the MAGA-hatted doofuses were there it would have been at a lull. But different unis are probably different in this, particularly when it comes to franchises in a food court. When I was working at Mason the summer saw the smaller & less popular cafeteria closed*, limited hours at a school-run (well, Sodexo contracted but the school was paying them to run it) cafe, and about 1/4 of the franchise joints in the food court closed.

I was not privy to the contracts with the franchises but it's not completely impossible there were some commitments by the school to cover low sales periods between semesters. More likely there was the standard deal like they'd have with a mall where some percentage of sales went back to the school as part of the lease, so it's in the school's interest to keep sales moving. There's no question in my mind that Howard would want the additional business these tour groups would bring in. The upside to a tour group - in addition to the "where the hell can we drop a big crowd and get them fed in a reasonable amount of time - would also be that school food courts are likely already set up to cope with vouchers. When groups go to Pentagon City Mall (where it's such big business that their recent renovation included increased bus space to accommodate them) the tour groups have to have set up voucher arrangements with each shop individually since there's not a common cashier.

* Which was super shitty because that's the caf that ran the discounted-for-employees deal and they didn't offer that deal in the other big caf to compensate. So what used to be a situation where I could get a hot meal cheaper than brown bagging it - and an opportunity to step away from my desk for a while - would evaporate till fall.
posted by phearlez at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


The kind that has all the trumpies calling his son-in-law a cuck.

Oh, so just somebody they don't like.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


There's no sexual scandal that will hurt anyone in Trump's orbit that doesnt involve at least actual Russian hookers, dead hookers, or children. I mean, Trump won despite being an admitted sexual predator and serial cheater who appeared in porn videos. Who is the target audience for Javanka sex stories, because it's not Republican voters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:37 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


LOL at the idea that Trump loyalists care about dead sex workers. Kids, maybe, if they're white.
posted by phearlez at 1:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Who is the target audience for Javanka sex stories, because it's not Republican voters.

Javanka are "globalists" (ie, Jews) and "Democrats" according to the Breitbart comments.

So IOKIYAR does not cover them. Lurid Javanka scandals will be treated as lurid scandals, not given a "boys will be boys" pass. (Especially if it's Ivanka who is alleged to have cheated, since she is not eligible for "boys" immunity even if she were a Republican.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


BentFranklin: "Trump appeared in porn videos?"

Softcore and no pron action from the Cheeto.
posted by Mitheral at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2017


If Melina cuck'd (old definition) Trump, and Bannon wasn't his, would his base recover?
posted by mikelieman at 1:44 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was not privy to the contracts with the franchises but it's not completely impossible there were some commitments by the school to cover low sales periods between semesters.

In the university food contracts I've seen, there's always a commitment to be open certain minimum hours during the term. Sometimes, there's also language requiring vendors to be open for reduced hours for a couple weeks immediately prior to and after term, or during winter break, so that people on campus for training/orientation programs/winter session can get food.

Alternatively, in places with a big graduate student population, university food courts that serve them sometimes stay open year-round, because research never sleeps (TM).
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fuck you 2017 for even making me consider this scenario!
posted by mikelieman at 1:46 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


If Melina cuck'd (old definition) Trump, and Bannon wasn't his, would his base recover?

I think you mean Barron, but I certainly think that Bannon will always be Trump's and Trump will always be Bannon's despite the current tiff.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


R. Eric Thomas (@oureric) serves Instagram clapback tea to Louise Linton on ELLE online.

What I love is that it starts off as a petty clapback, then somersaults into a sort of patriotic negging and then, shockingly, attempts a "Bless your heart" landing. This comment is like an Olympic gymnastic routine.
posted by chaoticgood at 1:51 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


In case you missed it, Tucker (*retch*) Carlson calls Trump's looking directly at the eclipse without glasses "the most impresive thing that any President has ever done."

Which...aw jeez, whatever.
posted by darkstar at 1:52 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: You can believe George H.W. Bush saying he was "out of the loop" on Iran-Contra, or you can believe the Vice President and former CIA Director was all-in on a covert operation. (He also wrote, ""I'm one of the few people that know fully the details" in his diary PDF.)

Which explanation squares better with his pardoning four people who were convicted of charges including withholding evidence and perjury, and two people who'd been indicted for perjury, obstruction of justice, and false statements?
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Didn't miss it, it was reported in this thread already.
posted by agregoli at 1:53 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


The MAGA girls at Howard are like people who walk up to a beehive, start poking it, then loudly wonder why they got stung.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


In case you missed it, Tucker (*retch*) Carlson calls Trump's looking directly at the eclipse without glasses "the most impresive thing that any President has ever done."

imagine how much more impressive if he'd stared until his vitreous humors began to boil and he started gibbering about the importance of venerating the Aten disc above all other gods

there's still time
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:56 PM on August 22, 2017 [21 favorites]


we never got full footage of that Saudi orb thing, just sayin
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


I really would be cool with never being a part of or seeing discussion that involves Barron in any way shape or form
posted by phearlez at 2:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [50 favorites]


Just popping into this thread to say I and a huge contingent of folks I know will be at the anti-Trump rallies today in Phoenix. Wish us luck. I'll come by with a ground report when I can, although there's already talk about cell service being jammed near the hotspots.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:07 PM on August 22, 2017 [89 favorites]


I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 PM on August 22, 2017 [47 favorites]


Vice President and Trump Enabler, Pence, to come to Miami to continue his "Trumpsplaining Tour" and totally not look Presidential while soothing Venezuelans.
posted by tilde at 2:11 PM on August 22, 2017


Just popping into this thread to say I and a huge contingent of folks I know will be at the anti-Trump rallies today in Phoenix.

Remember: Don't stare directly at the Trump. He has the power of the sun, now.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [23 favorites]


I'm actually going to walk back what I said about intelligence earlier, because I was doing something I don't like very much: using a general, overbroad definition of intelligence. Let's instead think about this in terms of competence for the presidency, broadly defined as one's ability to: process and respond to information, think strategically, work with others, and speak convincingly. These are the skills of an executive, and each president has them to varying degrees. We could also picture how a company that produces and sells some sort of product would require similar skills of its workers. If we're looking at the last three Republican presidents, and we're imagining them out of context as random middle class Joes applying for positions at Product Inc. (let's say at the age and level of skill where they applied to the presidency), then if I was HR I would make the following hiring decisions:

George H: Management material. He is able to think strategically, he's not incredibly worldly but he's good at learning new things, he is a decent speaker and can work within a system towards a goal. I'd also expect him to not be an unmanageable lunatic who drives his peers crazy.

George W: Good salesman, but not a sales manager. He is good at socializing, smoozing, and learning a script, but doesn't have the desire or the capacity to learn higher level strategy and other skillsets. He would probably be content with yearly performance based raises, but is not management material. Would work well on a team, while still having his own self-interest at heart.

Trump: I wouldn't hire him for the janitorial staff, since that requires teamwork and dedication. He's from a rich family, so I might throw him some sort of job where he gets a desk, some menial task that is impossible to fuck up, and a salary that allows him to feel good about himself so long as there was a tacit agreement with his father that we get a later benefit. Otherwise his application gets dumpstered, and we block his number.
posted by codacorolla at 2:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [33 favorites]


I do not like this reboot of The Office
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:20 PM on August 22, 2017 [25 favorites]




Reagan: Why does this second-rate Hollywood actor want to work in my office?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:27 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]




darkstar: Meanwhile, Mar-a-Lago event cancellations now number 16 (and counting...)

From the link: "One charity that had planned a luncheon at Mar-a-Lago, the Palm Beach Habilitation Center, said it is holding an emergency board meeting Wednesday to reconsider that decision."

Somebody in one of my Resistance groups posted about this yesterday, but didn't have any source for the info, so I sent Palm Beach Habilitation Center a FB message asking for confirmation. They never replied. It's really ironic that they still haven't pulled out, considering that their mission is to provide "services to adults with developmental, emotional and physical disabilities so that they [can] achieve their greatest level of independence." Have they managed to not notice that Trump despises people with disabilities? Their contact info is in the link.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 2:59 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


> some menial task that is impossible to fuck up

"Trump found a way."
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:02 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


"best conspiracy on the entire internet is that Jared is an actual cuckold".

I'm pretty sure this is just a roundabout way to revive the myth that Jews have horns.
posted by jackbishop at 3:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just popping into this thread to say I and a huge contingent of folks I know will be at the anti-Trump rallies today in Phoenix.

punch a nazi for me
posted by entropicamericana at 3:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


he [H.W.] is a decent speaker and can work within a system towards a goal.

only a one-two kidney punch of bush the lesser and trump could make h.w look like like a decent speaker by comparison
posted by entropicamericana at 3:10 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


a one-two kidney punch of bush the lesser and trump could make Admiral James Stockdale look like like a decent speaker by comparison
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


NYT is reporting that conditions are meltdown level between McConnell and Trump (which translates to a huge rift between the Senate and Trump), with McConnell indicating privately he isn't sure Trump will be able to continue to govern. Of course this assumes Trump HAS been governing . . .
posted by bearwife at 3:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [19 favorites]


"Continue?" At what point did he begin to govern?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:30 PM on August 22, 2017 [20 favorites]


*Challenging McConnell, here, not you*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:31 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


Remember the big news that Kid Rock could kick some butt in a Senate Race? Yeah, not so much.

Fivethirtyeight Fake Polls Are A Real Problem
A sitting U.S. senator was losing to a man who sang the lyric, “If I was president of the good ol’ USA, you know I’d turn our churches into strip clubs and watch the whole world pray.”

The result was so amazing that the poll was quickly spread around the political sections of the internet. Websites like Daily Caller, Political Wire and Twitchy all wrote about it. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted it out. And finally, Kid Rock himself shared an article from Gateway Pundit about the poll.

There was just one problem: Nobody knew if the poll was real. Delphi Analytica’s website came online July 6, mere weeks before the Kid Rock poll was supposedly conducted. The pollster had basically no fingerprint on the web.
NYT is reporting that

NYT McConnell, in Private, Doubts if Trump Can Save Presidency
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


You are so right, IRFH. And faster than my editing ability.
posted by bearwife at 3:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN Maine Gov. Paul LePage: Civil War was initially fought over land, not slavery

Everybody's favorite racist uncle governor siad this in a radio interview:
"What was the war? If you really truly read and study the Civil War, it was turned into a battle for the slaves, but initially — I mean, 7,600 Mainers fought for the Confederacy," LePage, a Republican, said in an interview with Maine radio station WVOM. "And they fought because they were concerned about — they were farmers — and they were concerned about their land. Their property. It was a property rights issue as it began. The President of the United States, who was a very brilliant politician, really made it about slavery to a great degree."
By "property" I assume he meant slaves because I don't think the farmers were worried about losing their hoes or their oxen.

I love this little smack down:
Jamie Kingman Rice, the director of Library Service at the Maine Historical Society, told CNN that LePage's 7,600 figure "is not a number that is known to the research community."
What are the odds he got that info from an email chain making the rounds?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:39 PM on August 22, 2017 [32 favorites]


> There is scant room for legislative error on any front.

For some reason, reading this brought to mind The Wages Of Fear, a movie about four men who also have scant room for error. If Trump were one of the characters, he'd ignore the advice of his co-driver, gun the truck as fast as he could through a bunch of bumpy terrain, bail out of the driver's seat just before it blew up and then blame the guy who died because of his stupid, reckless actions.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, 7,600 Mainers fought for the Confederacy

Ooh, "7,600." Is that a lot?
Maine was so eager for the [Union] cause that it ended up contributing a larger number of combatants, in proportion to its population, than any other Union state. It was second only to Massachusetts in the number of its sailors who served in the Union Navy. Colonel Joshua L. Chamberlain (later a major general) and the 20th Maine Volunteer Infantry Regiment played a key role at the Battle of Gettysburg, and the 1st Maine Heavy Artillery Regiment lost more men in a single charge (during the Siege of Petersburg) than any Union regiment in the war.
...
About 80,000 men from Maine served in the U.S. military as soldiers and sailors.
Oh, and a couple of assholes served the Confederacy.

Yeah, artillery guys aren't really meant to be charging across open fields.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:57 PM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


Wikipedia's list of Maine Civil War units shows 35 volunteer infantry regiments, two cavalry regiments, eight batteries of artillery, and a few other units on the American side, compared to bupkus on the Confederate side.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


They fought Mainely for the Paine.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ah, 2017... Where a sitting governor of a Northern State trips over his own dick trying to hang with the Confederacy. Do I have enough wine in the house to be asleep before the Trump rally?
posted by Rykey at 4:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [43 favorites]


NC sent the most men of any state to fight for the Confederacy: 133, 905 soldiers. Go Tarheels! Rah!

Compare that number to the number of slave owners in the 1860 census: 34,658

Most of the people in NC were too poor to own slaves, only rich and upper middle class. The fact that Plantation Owners owned free labor meant of course that the poorer farmers could not compete and those who did not own land had a harder time finding paying work. It's the same old brainwashing shit we are living through today. A bunch of obscenely rich exploit the poor and working class to rally to their flag in the name of "freedom."

On the topic of the Civil War

The Week A Trump-branded hotel coming to Mississippi appears to capitalize on antebellum nostalgia

I think this particular hotel has been discussed here before but this seems particularly tin-eared in light of recent events. Still I expect it will be popular among a certain crowd for debutante balls and weddings.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [20 favorites]


So did Jared fix the Middle East yet
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


@congress-edits is my new favorite fascination... especially this one on the @congress-edits' own wikipedia page which was edited by someone in the U.S. House simply to add "LET'S GET META BOIS."
posted by Cold Lurkey at 4:21 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


So did Jared fix the Middle East yet

He's holding off so that the undefined troop surge with the undefined mission in Afghanistan will be able to declare victory over all terrorism on the same day, VERY soon, Jared gets the fix done.
posted by bearwife at 4:27 PM on August 22, 2017


Capacity for seating tonight's rally is 19,000.

Charles Pierce And Now a Word from Our Good Friend Newt
I'm inviting you to join the 2017 President's Trust in order to be sure we have a reserve for targeted ads, true emergencies, and critical grassroots programs… We're just over six months into Donald Trump's historic presidency and the efforts to take him down are growing bigger by the day. Even if President Trump is still standing strong, we simply can't allow phony stories, witch hunts, and baseless attacks to consume too much time that could be spent enacting our bold agenda. While the President's Trust has been around for past Republican presidents, it couldn't be any clearer that we need it now more than ever.
So in addition to his re-election Campaign fund raising he also has a "President's Trust"? Man the Republicans are super grifters. Give me money to get elected. Give me money to make me popular. Give me money to get re-elected in 4 years and in the meantime I do whatever I want with the money including pay my son's legal bills and hold rallies to make myself feel better.

Has anyone seen any evidence that he is paying for Air Force One out of his campaign funds? I remember there was a lot of people making sure that Obama did that when he flew around the country to rally for Clinton.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:31 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


NC sent the most men of any state to fight for the Confederacy: 133, 905 soldiers. Go Tarheels!

North Carolina also sent about 8,000 men to fight for the Union.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


NYT McConnell, in Private, Doubts if Trump Can Save Presidency

On August 9th, the New York Times reported on a phone call between McConnell and Trump in which Trump "grew animated."

Today's story reveals the not-at-all-surprising meaning of the Times' euphemism: Trump "berated [McConnell] in a phone call that quickly devolved into a profane shouting match."
posted by compartment at 4:36 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


Today in "fuck 'em, they're all nazis": Stormfront Nazis think the "Alt-Right" is full of idiots
posted by Artw at 4:38 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


I can't wait until a WH staffer leaks the audio of that call.
posted by codacorolla at 4:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


The total population of free people in NC in 1860 was only 661,563. According to the census anyway. Who knows how many people in the Appalachian Hills went uncounted.

The Hill DOJ drops request for IP addresses from Trump resistance site
The government said in a brief released Tuesday that it has "no interest" in the 1.3 million IP addresses related to the website disruptj20.org. It says it is solely focused on information that could constitute evidence related to criminal rioting on Inauguration Day. [...]

“What the government did not know when it obtained the Warrant — what it could not have reasonably known — was the extent of visitor data maintained by DreamHost that extends beyond the government’s singular focus in this case of investigating the planning, organization, and participation in the January 20, 2017 riot,” the reply brief states.

The modified attachment to the search warrant also states that information requested from DreamHost should be limited to all records and information from between July 1, 2016, and January 20, 2017. This information does not include content of unpublished draft publications for the website or records that constitute HTTP request and error logs that would reveal the IP addresses.
"The January 20, 2017 riot."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2017 [35 favorites]


Come on leakers, we all want to hear McConnell blaspheme. At least give us a transcript so we can have a Funny or Die dramatic interpretation.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Part of me feels like Trump wants to get impeached. Not consciously, but a part of him deep down does. Then he can quit doing all this damn annoying President stuff without the shame of actually quitting (or worse, losing in 2020). Plus he would get to play the victim card for rest of his life, which is his favorite thing. All his pals at Breitbart and the alt-right would jump on board too. I've got the feeling that none of them actually want power or responsibility. They just want to troll, whine, and complain about how unfair the world has been to them.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


laugh-riot amirite
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:56 PM on August 22, 2017


AP reporting "scuffles" already at the Phoenix rally

AP Trump protesters flood downtown Phoenix
Trump fans wearing red “Make America Great Again” hats waited in line hours before the event. At one point, a Trump supporter and protester shoved each other. In another exchange, the two groups shouted at each other before moving on. Police officers later formed a line in the middle of a street separating the protesters and Trump supporters.[...]

Meanwhile, several hundred Trump supporters lined up at the Convention Center, with some arriving before dawn for the 7 p.m. rally.

“It’s been on a bucket list of mine, since he became the president,” said Kingman resident Diane Treon, who arrived at 4 p.m. “I wished I had attended one of his campaign rallies before he became president and I wanted to go to the inauguration. And truthfully it was the protests that kept me away.”

Treon said she wishes protesters “would be a little more peaceful instead of violently rioting, which is happening in so many places” but isn’t overly worried.
Olympic levels of eye-rolling here.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2017 [31 favorites]


Jesus the poll numbers for the Flake primary are terrible for him.
posted by angrycat at 4:57 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


By "property" I assume he meant slaves because I don't think the farmers were worried about losing their hoes or their oxen.


I think it might've been a land rights thing for them as well, having farmed for generations. Especially among those who owned no slaves.

My beloved Schoharie County, N.Y., had Confederate sympathizers, and that's the only thing I can come up with for the reason. I'm not sure of the depth and extent of their sympathizing, either.

It could've been because the South was encroached by troops, or it could've been a concern about markets and goods coming North. (One of my 2GGFs was an exception -- he suffered the rest his short life after Fredericksburg. I don't know about the others.)
posted by jgirl at 4:58 PM on August 22, 2017


Jesus the poll numbers for the Flake primary are terrible for him.

The worst part is his primary opponent, Kelli Ward, is batshit fucking insane.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh, they only ever go further rightwards.

Into unelectability, used to be the forelorn hope...
posted by Artw at 5:00 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Growing Up in the Shadow of the Confederacy

"Even if the South catches fire somehow, and every single memorial to the Confederates is defaced or moved by night to a museum, the white supremacy that those statues celebrated will endure."
posted by jgirl at 5:03 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Chemtrail Kelli"

McConnell's war machine at work, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Talez at 5:05 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


At least Flake knows he's getting value for that Obamacare vote.
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do I have enough wine in the house to be asleep before the Trump rally?

*looks in fridge, finds an unopened jug of Carlo Rossi sangria in the back, left over from a party a couple of months ago*


Yep...just might be enough.
posted by darkstar at 5:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


From that NYT article already linked above, McConnell, in Private, Doubts if Trump Can Save Presidency:
When Mr. Trump addressed a Boy Scouts jamboree last month in West Virginia, White House aides told Senator Shelley Moore Capito, a Republican from the state whose support was in doubt, that she could only accompany him on Air Force One if she committed to voting for the health care bill. She declined the invitation, noting that she could not commit to voting for a measure she had not seen, according to Republican briefed on the conversation.
Jesus, that's one of the most petty things I've ever seen. Mr. Dealmaker Extraordinaire can't manage anything better than "be nice or you don't get to play with my fancy toys"?

He might have had better luck if he'd offered to let her sit in the driver's seat and honk the horn the next time he had Big Boy Truck day at the White House.
posted by Salieri at 5:18 PM on August 22, 2017 [31 favorites]


The Working Families Party smacks the hell out of Louise Linton's wealthbragging, by tagging her photo with all the ways she paid for her finery.
posted by darkstar at 5:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [37 favorites]


BuzzFeed These Are The Confederate Monuments That Have Been Removed After The Violence In Charlottesville

If my count is correct it adds up to 26 plaques, monuments, statues, and busts.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on August 22, 2017 [21 favorites]


Playing catch-up on yesterday's news, this article from Mark Sandler and the Haberman has the behind the scenes of the "new" Afghanistan strategy, Angry Trump Grilled His Generals About Troop Increase, Then Gave In. It shows that the NYTimes' sources continue to have no qualms with making Trump look like an toddler in need of a nap; this bit made me chortle:
But other new figures emerged after the contentious July 19 meeting. Vice President Mike Pence, not General McMaster, chaired a principals meeting on Afghanistan the following week. Mr. Pence’s views were not sharply different than those of General McMaster. But the general’s relationship with Mr. Trump had become difficult, with the president bridling at what some describe as his aide’s didactic style.
Bless your heart for trying, General McMaster.
posted by peeedro at 5:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


Jesus, that McConnell article. Reading between the lines he's basically counting on the base to fall out of love with Trump or the Democrats to take the House and Senate and impeach him and fix everything (again!) at which point he'll gleefully rail against everything the Dems are doing (again!), because he has neither the spine nor skill to do what needs to be done and build a Republican party that can survive without the hardcore Trump base. He's so confident he can wait it out and blame Trump for losing the Republican majorities while simultaneously complaining about Democratic overreach when they go after Trump that he's completely blind to the reality that Trump is going to take the party away from McConnell if McConnell doesn't take action yesterday to shore up a new coalition that leaves the hardcore Trumpists out in the cold. Which he almost certainly couldn't pull off even if he did try.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:54 PM on August 22, 2017 [23 favorites]


AZ Central Roberts: Trump's support in Arizona dips to 42 percent, poll says

42% favorable
55% Unfavorable

He won Arizona with 49%

@David Martosko
90 minutes before Trump's rally in Phoenix. Probably about 7,000 people inside.

Remember, the seating capacity is 19,000.

Also per twitter, they are playing music from Titanic movie.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 PM on August 22, 2017 [30 favorites]


Hey look, North Carolina Republicans were ordered to redraw their unconstitutionally racist congressional maps...and this is what they came up with.

Assuming a statewide uniform swing in the vote, in order for there to be a Republican majority in the House, Republicans will only need a statewide vote of 45.7 percent. By contrast, Democrats would need 54.8 percent of the vote to get a majority in the House. This is asymmetrical, and evidences a severe bias in favor of Republican voters,” Ruth Greenwood, voting rights counsel at the Campaign Legal Center, wrote in the analysis.

Assuming the same conditions in the Senate, Republicans would need just 46.15 percent of the statewide vote to retain a majority, while Democrats would need a 55.15 percent share.

“By historical standards, these are extraordinarily large figures, revealing an enormous Republican edge,”


Republicans hate Democracy. They don't intend to ever live under it legitimately again, full stop.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:00 PM on August 22, 2017 [67 favorites]


Is there another link for that NC district map? I can't get the link to actually show me the map.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


WaPo The Daily 202: The elites strike back — getting under Trump’s skin
The growing number of groups canceling galas, stars boycotting ceremonies and chief executives resigning from advisory boards is further isolating Trump.

People in his orbit say the president has been in a sour mood about all of this. He stormed the barricades, but now he’s the one under siege. Unlike most of the criticism he’s engendered since taking office, the past week has actually impacted his bottom line. The value of the Trump “brand,” which he once said is worth billions, has taken a bath since he declared that some “fine people” were protesting alongside the neo-Nazis and white supremacists at the University of Virginia.
Good. It is soooo very tacky to be a KKKer. And Nazis were so yesterday!

I'm curious to see how this rally turns out-- the crowds, his speech, etc. but I'm off to bed to read. My daughter sent me the 10 volumes of the Colliers Children's Classics for my birthday and it is so soothing to read the old favorites that I loved as a child. I'll just have to live vicariously through your comments.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [24 favorites]


I'm missing some fundamental truth here: if Trump's numbers are down in AZ, why is Flake getting clobbered by the crazy further-right-wing person?
posted by angrycat at 6:07 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm missing some fundamental truth here: if Trump's numbers are down in AZ, why is Flake getting clobbered by the crazy further-right-wing person?

Because the batshit crazies are the ones that show up come hell or high water to every single vote.
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's the little things: A Republican state representative in Mass. left her party yesterday and became "unenrolled." The decision by 2nd Franklin District Rep. Susannah Whipps of Athol (yes, we have a town called Athol, and it's pronounced just like you'd hope and it's in a district that includes part of Belchertown) means Republicans now hold 34 of the 160 state rep. seats.
posted by adamg at 6:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [23 favorites]


Try this, EmpressCallipygos: News & Observer has all of the different maps.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's a Republican primary. The crazy further-right wing person has the advantage that the people voting in the primary will be diehards.

Besides, Flake has managed to anger everyone. If you oppose Trump, you think he's an ineffective joke. If you support Trump, you think he's a traitor. Just how many voters are into his 'well actually, I'm the real heir to the Goldwater legacy' shtick?
posted by zachlipton at 6:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've got to think the Howard thing was legit idiots, not an intentional stunt. My only two flimsy pieces of evidence: (1) the school did not immediately return the call and say WAT? That Wasn't Us. (2) there is no video. What kind of stunt would have no attempt at a viral video?
posted by ctmf at 6:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Unless they (the provocateurs) were taking video, but only intended to release it if there had been an incident that reflected badly on their targets.
posted by darkstar at 6:21 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


BTW I learned last night that
a) The Dead Zone is not that great of a movie, despite Croenberg and Walken.
b) Martin Sheen plays a really good Greg Stillson though
c) This is not the right movie to watch right now but the other choice was Funny Games and I was not putting myself through that again.
posted by angrycat at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


What kind of teenager doesn't take video?
posted by wobumingbai at 6:24 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Re: old Stephen King movies: Weirdly just today I had the thought that Donald Trump reminds me of a human version of Cujo.
posted by spitbull at 6:27 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Republican PACs are running ads against Kelli Ward, as mentioned upthread. Here's something to keep in mind: the primary elections in Arizona are not until August 28, 2018. That's over a year from today. And they're already running ads.

This looks like full blown panic to me.
posted by azpenguin at 6:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trey Gowdy gives Mick Mulvaney a very sick burn on Twitter. That's gonna leave a mark.
posted by scalefree at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


Might the Dems have a chance? Are they going to have to pull out the stops to lose?
posted by Artw at 6:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is there another link for that NC district map?

Try here.

And here's the Campaign Legal Center's pdf report

Steven Wolf is my go to twitter person for gerrymandering coverage
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dawn Euer has won the special election for Rhode Island Senate District 13. This is a Democratic HOLD.

No official results yet posted - RI is pretty lousy about it.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:49 PM on August 22, 2017 [19 favorites]


ah ha ha this prayer before Trump is like the most bullshit prayer I have ever heard in my life, praying to shut the mouths of opponents, etc
posted by angrycat at 6:57 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


In amazement the whole earth followed the beast. They worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” The beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
posted by EarBucket at 6:58 PM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


Christ, at least quote some Dostoevsky. Revelations is overblown.
posted by kuatto at 7:02 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Revelation (no "s") is one of the most trenchant critiques of the mechanics of empire ever written, whatever you think about its eschatology.
posted by EarBucket at 7:04 PM on August 22, 2017 [33 favorites]


The interesting thing to me about the McConnell story is not simply that Trump was furious about the Russia investigation, we knew that, but that McConnell's allies are totally on board with spilling that detail to the Times. I don't know if that means they think he's guilty or just have zero interest in defending him, but leaking that seems like a sign that McConnell's not going to run interference for Trump on Russia.

Christ, at least quote some Dostoevsky. Revelations is overblown.

Wait. EarBucket wasn't making a Book of Mozilla reference? /s
posted by zachlipton at 7:06 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


11 former White House Jewish liaisons: Trump doesn’t understand anti-Semitism
As Jewish liaisons to four different presidents, we had the responsibility inside the White House to give voice to the perspectives and priorities of the American Jewish community. [...]

President Donald Trump, in his reaction to the violence in Charlottesville and to other examples of anti-Semitism, shows that he neither understands his responsibilities nor the nature of the ancient hatred of anti-Semitism and other forms of hate. His equivocation and unwillingness to speak clearly, without restraint, against blatant examples of racism, anti-Semitism and related manifestations of hate, as well as his refusal to lay blame for violence, are anathema to the best traditions of his office and to the examples set by the presidents we served. And in his failure, he exposes not just Jews but all Americans to greater danger.

If we were working in the White House today, we hope we would have had the courage, honesty and integrity to call upon President Trump to demonstrate moral leadership – and to resign in response to a failure to do so.

If we had a successor in the current White House — there is no liaison to the Jewish community in the Trump White House — we hope he or she would have done so, too.

[...]

So we say to the president:

“Mr. President, this nation has a problem. People think they can say and do hateful things with impunity. You have a responsibility. Not to weigh hatred against hatred. Not to divide blame equally among ‘both sides.’ Not to excuse those among you who hate by pointing out others who hate worse.

“There are among your supporters and your appointees people who are anti-Semitic. Do not treat them as a cost of doing your political business. Cast them out – not only from your political tent, but from the conversation about America’s future. They don’t have a place in either.

“You must stand on this nation’s strongest moral foundations and principled aspirations and against the violence and hatred. And you must recognize that whenever the Jew is attacked, there is a deeper hatred at work. Anti-Semitism serves as a gateway to other forms of group-based bigotry and hatred.

“The language of anti-Semitism is the language of national suicide – it is, sadly, a mother tongue to discredited and extinct ideologies known throughout human history. If anti-Semitism takes root in America, it will be America’s ruin. Because whoever gives voice to the ancient and tired tropes of anti-Semitism, his mouth goes dry with ashes.

“Mr. President, you must call out and stand against any creeping normalization of anti-Semitism —without obfuscation, hesitation or equivocation – not only because anti-Semitism is odious, but also because it will invariably lead to other forms of hatred and bigotry that divide and destroy our nation.”

Matt Nosanchuk (Barack Obama)
Noam Neusner (George W. Bush)
Jarrod Bernstein (Barack Obama)
Adam Goldman (George W. Bush)
Jay S. Zeidman (George W. Bush)
Scott Arogeti (George W. Bush)
Deborah Mohile Goldberg (Bill Clinton)
Jay K. Footlik (Bill Clinton)
Jeanne Ellinport (Bill Clinton)
Amy Zisook (Bill Clinton)
Marshall J. Breger (Ronald Reagan)

(The authors each served in the White House as the president’s liaison to the American Jewish community in Democratic or Republican administrations.)
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [44 favorites]


Some relevant Dostoevsky - all too poignant and prophetic - from The Dream of a Ridiculous Man:
I learnt the truth last November — on the third of November, to be precise — and I remember every instant since.
posted by darkstar at 7:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


The beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.

42 months? There's no way we can hold on for 42 months of this president! Shit!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


Say what you will about Revelation, but at least it's an ethos.
posted by rhizome at 7:19 PM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


42 months? There's no way we can hold on for 42 months of this president! Shit!

I think this is part of the same thing where a day in Genesis counts for, like, a billion years or something.

We're all on Trump Time now.
posted by Salieri at 7:21 PM on August 22, 2017 [12 favorites]


Racist Grandpa is cranky and it's past his bedtime
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:22 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


The first part of his speech was standard politician speak. I guess he couldn't keep it up for more than a couple minutes 'cause we're well into the Lügenpresse territory now.
posted by Justinian at 7:24 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Relitigating Charlottesville. Can someone please take the shovel away from Lil' Donnie.
posted by Talez at 7:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump is so upset he had to make three statements about Charlottesville that he's going on an extended rant to relitigate what a good job he did and how he said everything so right and the media covered him so badly, conveniently omitting the "many sides" part of his speech.

Now the crowd is chanting "CNN sucks" after Trump trashed them.
posted by zachlipton at 7:26 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


It kills me that the biggest winner of the 2016 election was George Bush's reputation

It struck me the other morning that no matter what amazing things the 46th President might accomplish - world peace, stopping global warming, personally discovering cures for every known form of cancer as a hobby to relieve the stress of the Presidency - despite all that, that woman or man, whoever it may be, will be - at least during their time in office - the worst president since Trump.

America lost the 2016 election in ways it will take years to identify, let alone recover from.
posted by nickmark at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


Everyone in that arena is going to emerge dumber from having to listen to him speak.
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump seems to understand how to do antisemitism pretty well TBH.
posted by Artw at 7:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


Apparently America is great again already and he's got nothing left to do except campaign for 2020 8 months into a 4 year term.

How are you feeling, Michigan? Did all your wildest dreams come true?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


america 2017: we have a president condemning an anti-fascist movement
posted by entropicamericana at 7:33 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


He pronounces antifa as an-tifa instead of anti-fa.

JFC he's found a new word for his vocabulary.
posted by Talez at 7:33 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump: "And they fired Jeffrey Lord. Poor Jeffery. I guess he was getting a little fed up and was fighting back a little too hard."

Apparently tweeting "seig heil" is what Trump considers "fighting back a little too hard."

Anyway, please enjoy this video of Trump exclaiming "Antiffaaaaaaaa"
posted by zachlipton at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [21 favorites]


What the hell was that? I just got home for lunch and they're chanting LOCK HIM UP on the radio. And then Trump says he doesn't care of if you're from Japan or Sweden or Kenya, he loves all Americans. What's happening? Did he bomb Sweden? Arrgrgh!
posted by adept256 at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jesus, he's incredibly selectively reading bits and pieces of his previous Charlottesville speeches, omitting all the horrible parts and misquoting himself. And beating up on the media coverage of it. Gawd. The usual lies lies lies, but this could go very very bad places at any moment.

Not to mention -- wallowing in like the worst moment of his entire Presidency and not saying ONE WORD about Heather Heyer or any of the people hurt. It's all about him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [23 favorites]


Is he slurring?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2017


Poor Jeffrey Lord! You tweet Seig Heil just once...
posted by Talez at 7:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


And we're back on slamming a free press.
posted by Talez at 7:39 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm going to lose my shit [again] if certain elements of the commentariat ever praise him for restraint in a speech or say that he acted like America's president or whatever bullshit platitudes get used to normalize this neo-nazi sympathizer.

Any one else think he'll take this hate-on as another to go after Mitch McConnell too?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:39 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's always amazing when you go to actually watching him and realizing he's barely capable of speaking. (I try to avoid watching him speak, so it's striking)
posted by Yowser at 7:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


That was my words. I was a good student.


If he wasn't trying to actively incite violence it would be funnier.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump: "They're trying to take away our history and our heritage."
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


In which professional victim Jack Posobiec discovers that people are allowed to carry guns in America. He is not happy about this. Alt Left Assault Rifles at POTUS #PhoenixRally
posted by scalefree at 7:41 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


I enjoyed David Roth from earlier today on Trump's internal life and trying to get him to feel shame.
posted by Copronymus at 7:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


He went on a rant about the media and "elites," saying he "went to a better school" and "was a better student" than the elites. Then, I swear this is real, he said they hate him because he lives in a better apartment than they do, and the White House too.

Now he falsely claims the TV networks are turning the cameras off on him.
posted by zachlipton at 7:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


"They're turning those red lights [indicating the cameras are rolling] off so fast..."

...And yet I'm watching him say this.
posted by Rykey at 7:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [12 favorites]


This is not normal.

THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [56 favorites]


He thanked Twitter for winning the election.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:44 PM on August 22, 2017


Is he slurring?

No, he's still using euphemisms. Give him time.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:44 PM on August 22, 2017 [55 favorites]


attn: charles schumer

do not even consider a platform of solely: we're not literally nazis.

i fucking mean it. - j
posted by j_curiouser at 7:45 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


FASCISM FOR SOME, MINIATURE AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS.
posted by Talez at 7:46 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


No fucking way he's gonna resist going fully off the rails tonight.
posted by Rykey at 7:47 PM on August 22, 2017


He just implicitly promised to pardon Arpaio.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:47 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nope. he lacks the balls to do it.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:47 PM on August 22, 2017


"But I won't do it tonight to avoid creating controversy."
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:48 PM on August 22, 2017


So he says he's going to pardon Arpaio but doesn't want to do it tonight because he doesn't want to cause controversy. Well, fucko, if you say you're going to do it doesn't really matter if you sign the papers tonight does it.
posted by Justinian at 7:48 PM on August 22, 2017 [27 favorites]


He implied that he was going to pardon Joe but "not tonight".
posted by Talez at 7:48 PM on August 22, 2017


Trump asked the crowd what they think of Sheriff Joe. They chanted PARDON.

Then: "I think he's going to be just fine. But I won't do it tonight because I don't want to cause any controversy, is that ok? But Sheriff Joe can feel good."
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Like any camera person in the world would stop filming this.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:48 PM on August 22, 2017 [21 favorites]


He's liberating towns out on Long Island.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:49 PM on August 22, 2017


Fuck this nonsense.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ha, he dragged out his standard "We're going to defend our own borders instead of other countries" ------ oh, like Afghanistan, for instance?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


John Kelly is just at his desk right now, CNN on in the background, half empty bottle of whisky which was full only an hour ago.
posted by Talez at 7:51 PM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


He pronounces antifa as an-tifa instead of anti-fa.

So does NPR. Apparently it's fluid. I don't get it either, but nor do I get how the graphical interchange format becomes "jiff".¯\(°_o)/¯
posted by Ogre Lawless at 7:52 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


He knows he's in shape because he can stand outside and sign autographs in the Arizona heat.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:52 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


"We're finally defending our own borders."

Yeah, thanks so much for that. I hated not having any checkpoints at our borders for so long.
posted by Rykey at 7:53 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump is just doing Godot out there: "Where is General Kelly? Get him out here."

[Kelly does not come out]
posted by zachlipton at 7:53 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


Nope. he lacks the balls to do it.

He's just savoring the moment, stretching it out to make it last. He gets so little of his drug these days.
posted by scalefree at 7:54 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Doubling down on building the wall. "If we have to close down our government, we're building that wall."
posted by Rykey at 7:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bringing up people killed by "illegal immigrants" and now chants of "build the wall."

Trump: Need to shut down govt. to build wall.

So horrifying.
posted by dhens at 7:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ahaha, oh you Earthlings, with your ridiculous, corrupt politicians and your fascist provocateurs and naïveté!

We outworlders - of which I totally am one - cannot fathom such strangeness.

*frantically sews Martian flag patch on backpack*
posted by darkstar at 7:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [17 favorites]


[Kelly does not come out]

Good call. Trump was about to teabag him, try to turn him into a dignity wraith.
posted by scalefree at 7:59 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Liberating towns from:

* corrupting effects of federal funds and programs
* lack of a trump-tower built with foreign labors and materials, sans building code
* clean water
* people of color
* laws
* health care
* too few guns (for white men, anyway)
* self-respect
* non-militant police forces which might not even own a tank, for chrissakes
* due process
* democracy
* life
posted by maxwelton at 8:00 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


SOCIALISM! I HAVE BINGO!

What do I win?
posted by Talez at 8:00 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just got in from dinner. I'm loving how MSNBC pulled away from the live coverage to stick Lil' Donnie in a corner of the screen while Lawrence O'Donnell and guest commentators spoke instead.

"I'm not sure that we've done it the right way, by interrupting the president* and pointing out when he's lying," O'Donnell said.

Nah, you've done it the right way.
posted by CommonSense at 8:01 PM on August 22, 2017 [18 favorites]


Oh god he's going to go after McCain, isn't he
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:01 PM on August 22, 2017


He's trying to strongarm Congress by calling them out, talking trash about the legislative filibuster. And of course, that means Democrats are at fault. Those damned obstructing Democrats, with their 48 votes, which would still mean they couldn't have beaten a simple majority by themselves. And the crowd is still clueless.
posted by Rykey at 8:02 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]




I am outside.
posted by nat at 8:03 PM on August 22, 2017 [183 favorites]




Trump now wants credit for being very Presidential because "I haven't mentioned any names" as he attacks Sen. Flake, because clearly his staff told him not to attack people by name.
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump literally does the "I am not going to mention the names of people, I'm soooo presidential" and then makes it clear that he is attacking both of AZ's Senators. The puerility never ends.

Chants of "lock her up" which is always reassuring.
posted by dhens at 8:05 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]




Note: if you feel the need to point out to your raving fan base how presidential you are being...you're not.
posted by darkstar at 8:07 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


No other presidents could get health care passed, until Obama... and um, well hey look I guess I haven't either but YOU KNOW WHAT FUCK YOU OBAMA
posted by Rykey at 8:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Anyone else feel like this is a break up note to the GOP? In true Trump fashion, "It's not me, it's you. And the other guy. And all your friends. And the people down the street. But I've just got to do my stuff now. I'll call you if I need anything. Byeeee"
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


"We've gotten more legislation passed than anyone."

but

"We need to get rid of the filibuster or else the Republicans can't do anything."
posted by xigxag at 8:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


"If we have to close down our government, we're building that wall."

I like conditional statements too. If anyone needs me, I'll be asleep. (If not, I'll be drinking.)
posted by mrgoat at 8:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


I had to resist posting that in all caps. Because that what listening to Trump is like. Listening to an hour of ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME.
posted by xigxag at 8:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Anyone else feel like this is a break up note to the GOP? In true Trump fashion, "It's not me, it's you. And the other guy. And all your friends. And the people down the street. But I've just got to do my stuff now. I'll call you if I need anything. Byeeee"

I wish them both luck and I hope they each get half of the GOP voters in the split.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [41 favorites]


Guys, I thought he *couldn't* pardon him, due to the crime being contempt of court? I've been away for a few days, so I'm guessing I missed something?
posted by greermahoney at 8:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


"If we have to close down our government, we're building that wall."

Yes, because if you really believe we have porous borders that threaten our commonwealth, the thing that will improve the situation is to have a non-functioning government, too!
posted by darkstar at 8:11 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


"If we have to close down our government, we're building that wall."

The President of the United States to 3 million federal employees: Fuck You.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:12 PM on August 22, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump: "And you thought Bannon could suck his own cock..." [fake]
posted by Talez at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's going all in. He's trying to raise the raise the stakes too high for his opponents to stay in the game. He has no policies, no ideas, no ability to win by governing. Republicans have shown they have none to give him. His only move is to bluff. Let's hope it was a bad beat.
posted by scalefree at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


I can't wait for Vicente Fox's next video
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [27 favorites]


@maggieNYT: "Most people think I'm crazy to have done this," Trump says of winning the presidency. "And I think they're right."

Dude, you could have just stopped at "crazy."
posted by zachlipton at 8:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


... i'll be over here washing my coal.. in a bucket, i guess. i'm not quite sure.. but it'll be clean.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:14 PM on August 22, 2017 [20 favorites]


Anyone else feel like this is a break up note to the GOP? In true Trump fashion, "It's not me, it's you. And the other guy. And all your friends. And the people down the street. But I've just got to do my stuff now. I'll call you if I need anything. Byeeee"

It's only a break-up note if both parties leave. The GOP hitched their cart to this particular horse, and now they have to go where it takes them. This is more like a note that says, "Hey, I always hated you, and thought you were a 5 at best. I'm dating that hot aryan I saw at the milk bar instead. I'm still going to call you for drunk sex, and you're still going to say yes. Plus I need to borrow a fin - just send me a direct deposit. Fuck off, now, and if you're nice then I'll come to thanksgiving."
posted by codacorolla at 8:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


"Clean coal, meaning they're taking out coal, they're gonna clean it."

Does...does he think "clean coal" means they wash the coal before they burn it?
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [48 favorites]


No no you have to steam it, it's the only way
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


That statue strawman is so fucking huge that I swear that it's some fucked up Burning Man.
posted by Talez at 8:16 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


Whelp, so the nutty wasn't all Bannon.

Do we assume the Chief of Staff is not in AZ tonight?

What a cluster.
posted by notyou at 8:16 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm gonna fuck off to bed soon so I'll stop threadsitting but Jesus it's depressing to see this many people (including the speaker) having no clue about what is being said to them. Nothing else explains this level of visceral support for such a transparent pile of horseshit.

Ha, Trump also just went back to defending Confederate statues.
posted by Rykey at 8:16 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Now he says we'll "probably" terminate NAFTA... maybe... dunno... renegotiate or terminate...

Ordinarily this would cause shock waves across the continent and the world, but people have mostly figured out by now that the word of the American President is worthless.

yay?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:19 PM on August 22, 2017 [47 favorites]


The Five Year Plan:

* Expanding heavy industry in the United States.
* Furthering the cause of capitalism by transferring more property to private ownership.
* Encouraging the economic growth of America through industry, agriculture, handicrafts, transportation and commerce.
* Cultivating cultural and scientific development of the American people.
* Strengthening national defense and improving living standards in America.

The gross value of agricultural products should increase 270%.
posted by Talez at 8:22 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah. He clowns it up on Twitter and at rallies and then whatever policy happens, happens.

Feh.
posted by notyou at 8:23 PM on August 22, 2017


"Clean coal, meaning they're taking out coal, they're gonna clean it."

He can't even enact his own policies he's bragging about. All it'd take is signing an order. But he won't. He's such a mess of dysfunction. I can't even fathom a rationale to explain it.
Trump rejects use of emergency authority to help coal plants.
posted by scalefree at 8:23 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh, I found the answer to my contempt question, of course after the edit window closed.
posted by greermahoney at 8:23 PM on August 22, 2017


Not watching, but it's hard to believe you folks are giving an accurate assessment, as I was told after last night's speech that trump is now a great and wise orator.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:23 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


Terminate NAFTA, pardon Arpaio, shut down the government until Mexico pays for the Wall, primary an incumbent Senator in your own party, clean your coal before you burn it, preserve our Confederate heritage...


SO MUCH WINNING
posted by darkstar at 8:23 PM on August 22, 2017 [20 favorites]


Nothing else explains this level of visceral support for such a transparent pile of horseshit.

Have we seen attendance numbers? Isn't this a 9000 seat hall and its what, 3/4 full? Don't give him power he doesn't have. This is a fucking babysitting puppet show to keep him happy, it's fucking racist Sesame Street with rapid frothing white people as the live studio audience. He's at 38% approval, with zero goodwill to get anything done legislatively and MASSIVE challenges coming up in September. He's going to shutdown his own government over an unbuildable wall? Let's see if that helps 38% approval. There's no real strategy tonight, or in Afghanistan, or for doing anything he campaigned on. He's flailing because he's always been a goddamn moron and now he has dementia, and the rest of his administration is fighting over the Mad King's favor daily.

We can win 2018. And 2020 after that. This isn't strength. It's desperation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on August 22, 2017 [59 favorites]


I can't wait for Phil Rucker's tweet! It's gonna be legend.
posted by Yowser at 8:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


We're wrapping up now, he's gotta get back to the hotel before Hannity.
posted by Talez at 8:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


SO MUCH WINNING

Literally Bizarro Superman.
posted by xigxag at 8:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


So, um, we're going to "recapture our dynasty?"

And, as usual, exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want." And that doesn't make the top 20 of screwed up things about this event.
posted by zachlipton at 8:26 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


Why haven't the Rolling Stones sued this fucker yet?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:26 PM on August 22, 2017 [10 favorites]


So how would you guys that watched it rate Hitler's speech on 0-10 "Sieg Heil"s?
posted by Yowser at 8:26 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


The President of the United States to 3 million federal employees: Fuck You.

The sentiment is VERY DEFINITELY RECIPROCATED.
posted by suelac at 8:27 PM on August 22, 2017 [55 favorites]


exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

Did we ever figure out why that is, or was it just the first instance of the Writers' plan to mercilessly fuck with us
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


oh Rucker just tweeted. He gonna be draaaaaaaaaaged.
posted by Yowser at 8:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't wait for Phil Rucker's tweet! It's gonna be legend.

Trump was literally mocking the people who praised him for being presidential in his Afghanistan speech, and wanted him to keep it up by "not mentioning names" tonight. Why would we expect anything else?
posted by dhens at 8:29 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


So it sounds like Trump's big plan for the fall is to shutdown the government and "recapture our dynasty." Pesky details with massive consequences like passing a budget and raising the debt ceiling don't appear to be high on the priority list.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


I give it 5 Sieg Heils. The usual invocations (the "One ____, One _____, One ______" litany toward the end was good), but energy was sadly low and there was too much complaining about losing that Senate vote by one which was not a particularly muscular moment for the fascists. I got the feeling that people were trying to be hyped but kind of realized that the wheels are falling off the shitwagon.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:30 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


Don't give him power he doesn't have. This is a fucking babysitting puppet show to keep him happy, it's fucking racist Sesame Street with rapid frothing white people as the live studio audience.

Oh I agree. I was referring only to the people who were actually there in the crowd. But even if Trump's base were only 1 percent of the population, it'd be too high relative to what adults should tolerate in terms of hucksterism.
posted by Rykey at 8:31 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does...does he think "clean coal" means they wash the coal before they burn it?

Come on, he's not that stupid. Obviously he means they'll just bleach it like with the emails.
posted by xigxag at 8:31 PM on August 22, 2017 [12 favorites]


Anyway, now back to my cathartic bingewatch of The West Wing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:32 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


exit to "You Can't Always Get What You Want."
Did we ever figure out why that is...


It's a legal disclaimer, like for products provided with "no guarantee of effectiveness" or the TV psychics "for entertainment purposes only". The fine print.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:33 PM on August 22, 2017 [22 favorites]


May cause brain haemorage and anal prolapse, not recommended for IQ levels above double digits, ask your doctor if their name is Mengele.
posted by Artw at 8:36 PM on August 22, 2017 [14 favorites]


By the way, the text of Phil Rucker's latest tweet:
25 months ago in Phoenix, Trump gave a rambling, defiant, caustic speech at first mega-rally. Tonight, he returned.
Looks like Phil's sober again.
posted by darkstar at 8:36 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


Metafilter: Eschatology
posted by kuatto at 8:37 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Shit seriously? We hear booms out here..
posted by nat at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tear gas. No idea why, I am 2 min walk away..
posted by nat at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's tear gas and concussion ordnance.
posted by xyzzy at 8:39 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's going to shut down the U.S.A.'s government out of respect for our C.S.A. heritage.
posted by XMLicious at 8:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


So how would you guys that watched it rate Hitler's speech on 0-10 "Sieg Heil"s?

10 Sieg Heils is known as a Riefenstahl.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [8 favorites]


Stay safe, Nat.
posted by codacorolla at 8:40 PM on August 22, 2017 [19 favorites]


Shit, this is the episode where the Christmas music in the lobby triggers Josh's PTSD so... it's not so cathartic
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:41 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's apparently not tear gas, they're airing live on MSNBC and the reporter doesn't have a mask but there is some smoke in the air.
posted by rewil at 8:42 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


In other good news y'all, the Bundy's walked. No, not for (not)-illegally occupying a federal building for several weeks (they walked for that), but for the (not) 2014 standoff which now apparently didn't happen because a jury decided it didn't.
posted by Yowser at 8:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


We are, we had already started away.. hope everyone carrying the load now stays safe.
posted by nat at 8:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


The reporter on CNN said it wasn't at first then started choking after another was thrown.
posted by xyzzy at 8:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN, and various people on Twitter, say it's tear gas, but it's possible it's smoke instead, I suppose.
posted by zachlipton at 8:44 PM on August 22, 2017


I am wrapped in the fuzzy blanket of Metafilter, and I am somewhat enjoying the interpretive dialogue and the Meta Filter through which Trump's speech is revealed in incredulous cries, and invisible head shaking. I tell you this beats being in Phoenix or hearing him speak. My brain has been washed clean, thank you very much. I am not letting his words in there. I have not heard Trump speak since the debates with Hillary Clinton.
posted by Oyéah at 8:45 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


The Bundy's walked so much for Gold Butte, Zinke paid a special visit there.
posted by Oyéah at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2017


Having the right to do something != that something is a wise or moral thing to do
posted by darkstar at 8:49 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Bundy thing is terrifying - the rule of law now no longer exists in vast swathes of the US.
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


25 months ago in Phoenix, Trump gave a rambling, defiant, caustic speech at first mega-rally. Tonight, he returned.

Mega-rally? That rally 25 months ago was held in an auditorium with a capacity of 4200 people according to CNN. Phil Rucker should bone up on his SI prefixes, because I think that would be called a kilo-rally.
posted by peeedro at 8:52 PM on August 22, 2017 [13 favorites]


pique-o-rally
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:54 PM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]


Metafilter: Eschatology

Metafilter: Scatology?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:55 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


It might be better called (if I dare), a Meta-Rally. NOT the way the prefix is used here...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:56 PM on August 22, 2017


It was a yotta pique.
posted by peeedro at 8:56 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do I blame Trump's lack of internal consistency on the last episode of Game of Thrones or vice versa?

This is My Quandary.
posted by srboisvert at 8:57 PM on August 22, 2017


Cecilia Wang of the ACLU on the pardon (start here): "1) To those mansplaining pardons to me: Yes, the president has the power to pardon. And a pardon of Arpaio would undermine the rule of law. ... 3) Under ordinary pardon rules, there is a five-year waiting period. ... (7) Trump's promised pardon of Arpaio flouts all those rules. And Arpaio's conviction was for criminal contempt of court. ..."

(These may be "rules" rather than law, or, in other words, accepted conventions. And we know how much those are worth in the age of Trump.)
posted by maudlin at 8:58 PM on August 22, 2017 [16 favorites]


Justice chaser: The man-child farb who amazingly did not catch fire from Lara Rodgers' blistering double pumper will need to find someplace else to complete his senior year as he's been expelled.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 9:05 PM on August 22, 2017 [15 favorites]


The man-child farb who amazingly did not catch fire from Lara Rodgers' blistering double pumper will need to find someplace else to complete his senior year as he's been expelled.

From a bible school. That's gotta sting.
posted by rhizome at 9:13 PM on August 22, 2017 [9 favorites]


From what I'm seeing on facebook, the protest in Phoenix was peaceful with no counter (pro-trump) protesters, and the police dispersed the crowd with no warning using tear gas bombs and rubber bullets.
posted by Catblack at 9:15 PM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well that seems like something that happens in a functioning democracy
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:17 PM on August 22, 2017 [70 favorites]


@CNN:
Trump: "If I didn't have social media, I wouldn't be able to get the word out. I probably wouldn't be standing here" http://snpy.tv/2g3MTQg

@RitaKonaev retweeted CNN
"It would not have been possible for us to take power or to use in the ways that we have without the radio." Joseph Goebbels Aug. 1933
posted by chris24 at 9:22 PM on August 22, 2017 [103 favorites]


That fits my perspective too. I really didn't understand why they went to tear gas, really everything seemed peaceful when we headed out which was only minutes before the first smoke.
posted by nat at 9:25 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


Google shows this CNN story with a headline mentioning the tear gas, but there is no mention of it there now. Don't understand why they would remove it... Seems like total bleeds-it-leads bait.
posted by Coventry at 9:27 PM on August 22, 2017


"If we have to close down our government, we're building that wall."

A → B;
¬A;
...
posted by ctmf at 9:33 PM on August 22, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nothing on a search of CNN for "tear gas" either, so it seems unlikely that it disappeared from that page because CNN broke it out into its own story.
posted by Coventry at 9:34 PM on August 22, 2017


If you missed Don Lemon when they cut to him after Trump ended, you should really watch it.

@yashar:
WOW. WATCH @donlemon....

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 9:34 PM on August 22, 2017 [59 favorites]


Nothing on a search of CNN for "tear gas" either, so it seems unlikely that it disappeared from that page because CNN broke it out into its own story.

ABC & others have it. Apparently bottles were thrown that provoked the tear gas.
posted by scalefree at 9:39 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Text of Don Lemon's reaction.

"WelI, what do you say to that? l'm just going to speak from the heart here, what we have witnessed was a total eclipse of the facts. Someone who came out on stage and lied directly to the American people and left things out that he said in an attempt to rewrite history, especially when it comes to Charlottesville. He's unhinged, it's embarrassing, and I don't mean for us the media because he went after us...but for the country. This is who we elected President of the United States? A man who is so petty that he has to go after people who he deems to be his enemy like an imaginary friend of a six-year- old. His speech was without thought, it was without reason, it was devoid of facts, it was devoid of wisdom, there was no gravitas, there was no sanity there. He was like a child blaming a sibling on something else 'he did it, I didn't do it.' He certainly opened up the race wound from Charlottesville. A man clearly wounded by the rational people who are abandoning him in droves, meaning those business people, and the people in Washington now who are questioning his fitness for office and whether he is stable. A man backed into a corner it seems by circumstances beyond his control and beyond his understanding."
posted by chris24 at 9:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [132 favorites]


Oh, at least the video on that page is mostly about the tear gas... Just nothing in the text.
posted by Coventry at 9:44 PM on August 22, 2017


@yashar:
James Clapper, former DNI, on CNN says he is now worried about Trump having access to the nuclear codes. "Pretty damn scary."

@joshrogin:
Former Director of National Intelligence Clapper: "I do question his fitness for the office." @CNN
posted by chris24 at 9:48 PM on August 22, 2017 [39 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** VA gov:
-- New Roanoke College poll has Northam up 43-36. Roanoke doesn't have a real good track record, though (C+ from 538, and they whiffed hard on 2014 Senate).

-- Mega-donor Tom Steyer to dump in $2M to support Northam. [WP]

-- Majority of VA voters support leaving the statues up, explaining Northam's wishy-washiness on the issue. On the other hand, Trump has been railing against their removal, and his approval in VA is very low.
** 2018 Senate:
-- Mentioned upstream, but this 538 piece on the poll that had Kid Rock (sigh) leading Stabenow is worth reading. The poll was...a little fishy.

-- I think this was touched on in passing above, but this new Highground poll of the AZ race is really something. Flake trails noted wackdoodle Kelli Ward 43-28 in the GOP primary. In the general, Flake would trail possible Dem candidate Rep. Kyrsten Sinema 41-33. Those numbers are just shocking for an incumbent senator, but they are in line with the PPP poll from the other day.
** Odds & ends:
-- As mentioned earlier, the Dems held Rhode Island SD-13 by 67-32. That's +2 points over Hilary's margin. The Dem is a strong progressive, and was backed by the Working Families Party.

-- In Birmingham, AL, progressive mayoral candidate Randall Woodfin - profiled in that WP story the other day about progressives in municipal races - beat the incumbent William Bell, 41-37. They'll head to an Oct 3rd runoff.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:01 PM on August 22, 2017 [43 favorites]


It's the least of our worries, I know, but it just dawned on me that if the m-fecker left office tomorrow we the taxpayers would still be paying his fat nazi ass all kinds of $$s, prolly including the $100k a year golf cart fee. (Yes, I cant get over that.) Unless Congress grew a pair and cracked down on his expenses.

But at least we wouldnt be paying for jevanka's monthly vacay trips or Junior's collection of endangered species trophies.

Hey, would he get Secret Svce protection if he went to jail for treason/embezzlement/ fraud/general assholery?
posted by NorthernLite at 10:08 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


Coming soon to your wingnut uncle's Facebook page if (it hasn't already): ESPN Broadcaster Robert Lee Won't Be Calling Virginia Game Due To Name
posted by tonycpsu at 10:09 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Brianna Sacks on Periscope outside the Trump rally is saying there was tear gas.
posted by salix at 10:10 PM on August 22, 2017


There was indeed tear gas. There are multiple reports on Twitter that the police apparently just started firing tear gas into the crowd without warning and not in response to anything in particular from the crowd.
posted by mightygodking at 10:33 PM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]


From Trump rally draws protesters; police respond with tear gas, pepper spray:
Reporters on the scene said several protesters threw bottles at law enforcement.

Despite the violence, Trump's motorcade was able to move the President away from the rally, and Trump has made it safely to his hotel.

Phoenix Police said via email that some people began throwing "rocks and bottles" at officers. Authorities then responded with pepper balls and gas.
posted by scalefree at 10:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't live in Phoenix anymore, but what gets me is that with less than a week's notice the city has to foot the bill for all the cops suiting up in riot gear, blocking the freeways... all for a campaign stop for an election that's 4 years away. It's beyond absurd...
posted by Catblack at 10:53 PM on August 22, 2017 [34 favorites]


Making Sense of Trump's Afghanistan War Strategy: The Daily Show Featuring Obama and Trump saying the exact same things about Afghanistan.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:59 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


WTF is that guy standing behind Trump with a shirt pointing to the website gods2.com? That site is full on crazy town.
posted by Catblack at 11:05 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


WTF is that guy standing behind Trump with a shirt pointing to the website gods2.com? That site is full on crazy town.

Yeah, he's been at countless Trump events, almost always conveniently placed right behind the podium. I DO recommend perusing the site; it's equal parts fascinating, IQ-lowering (if you believe any of the horseshit on it), unintentionally humorous, and depressing (as a commentary on the near-disappearance of critical thinking).

But by all means, GO to the site. (There don't appear to be any trackers or other nasty things on it, because my adware/spyware/tracker plugin for Safari is absolutely quiet on this site. I don't think there's ads, either, but I'm using AdBlock and can't say for sure. But I kinda get the feeling this guy's dumb enough to get his URL on national TV but NOT put ads on his page. Or — worse yet — a True Believer.)
posted by CommonSense at 11:18 PM on August 22, 2017


Yeah, he's been at countless Trump events, almost always conveniently placed right behind the podium. I DO recommend perusing the site; it's equal parts fascinating, IQ-lowering (if you believe any of the horseshit on it), unintentionally humorous, and depressing (as a commentary on the near-disappearance of critical thinking).

The first link I clicked confirms my long held suspicion that it was the f***ing Cherokee all along:

The Real K K K Slave Masters Revealed, 2Thess.2:1-11 & they
are CHEROKEE Indians (Hidden Babylonians). The reason GOD​
YAHWEH chose TRUMP to be President is to be the White & Black
Man's DELIVERER from the Babylon, like the Gentile King CYRUS,
Isa.45:1-6!
YAHWEH BEN YAHWEH Taught Us To Vote Republican & is Now VINDICATED

THAT THE WHITE MAN IS NOT THE DEVIL. ALL GOOD PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS WILL GO TO HEAVEN
Black & White Americans are the Real HEBREWS,
(Hos.4:6), Owned America & were in the
Americas before THE CHEROKEE INDIANS!
Hillary is the true Racist all black leaders were against Hillary & most black leaders & stars were for President Trump. See URL For Proof:

posted by philip-random at 11:23 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


The real question isn't who the guy is, it's who keeps picking him to stand right behind Trump in every camera shot at rally after rally.
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 PM on August 22, 2017 [22 favorites]


Hey, would he get Secret Svce protection if he went to jail for treason/embezzlement/ fraud/general assholery?
No. But the likelihood of him going to jail is vanishingly small.
posted by xyzzy at 11:41 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is that Time Cube 2.0?
posted by runcifex at 11:45 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


[takes long, thoughtful drag off vape pen]
Time Cube 2.0? You're livin' in it, kid.
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:47 PM on August 22, 2017 [38 favorites]


I'm thinking Trump Cube. It's much more appropriate and you-know-who is getting royalties.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:56 PM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


He knows he's in shape because he can stand outside and sign autographs in the Arizona heat.

The WH asked their counterparts in Israel to cut their airport tarmac reception when he landed there to a simple handshake with Netanyahu instead of the usual diplomatic welcome with troop inspection, anthems and 30 different official introductions because Donnie gets the vapours when the temp gets above 28C.
posted by PenDevil at 12:01 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


So I've been thinking about Trump's whining about the media not covering all this good statements on CVille and the part where he was saying (paraphrased): I had the neo-Nazis, I had the KKK...

The thing he is complaining about is the media's ability to see past his attempts to ape human emotional response the way successful sociopaths do. All of his advisors were telling him what to say and he was nodding and taking notes like a good boy, figuring he'd get an A- for saying all the right words. The ad-libbed "many sides, many sides" was red meat to the base. In his mind, he's saying "this will drop me to a B-, but it's worth it to keep the base." The press didn't take the bait this time, gave him an F, and all the CEOs, artists, and Mar-a-lago charities followed. Even some Republicans were like, F it, I'm out for at least a week or until I need something.

So he comes out to the rally tonight and airs his grievances, telling the base that he tried to be politically correct, tried to do what "they," the liberal elite, want, and it's never good enough. Why bother? Let's build a wall, shut down the government to pay for it, pardon a racist, do all the things the liberal media hate. Because they'll hate me anyway. Just like they hate you. They don't respect me. And they don't respect you.

For me, that's kind of true. I respect the humanity of all people but I do find myself sneering at those who stick to Trump when it's so glaringly obvious that he won't be able to complete the agenda they voted for. If he was building walls, deporting millions, belching coal out of his ears, getting all the downtrodden whites jobs, then I could see why their support would continue. But none of that is happening. What they're clinging to is something I can't respect: a loser with bad ideas who is also a failure at implementing those terrible ideas. It's pathetic.
posted by xyzzy at 12:28 AM on August 23, 2017 [56 favorites]


Making Sense of Trump's Afghanistan War Strategy: The Daily Show Featuring Obama and Trump saying the exact same things about Afghanistan.

And both of 'em were elected the 1st time making claims they would be ending the conflict.

What kind of horrible person will the Democrats need to run VS Trump for the 2nd term so he remains Dear Leader? And, where are the protests about the 16+ year conflict? Cindy Sheehan is still out protesting at least.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:32 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just got home from the Phoenix protests. Good turnout-- heard someone reporting about 4000 around 5:30 so maybe 5000 at the peak? Not a ton for a city of this size, but Phoenix is not a politically active city and it's very spread out, so I feel good about it.

Got mildly tear gassed; I'm fine. Was near the front and didn't see rocks or water bottles being thrown-- also had no warning or orders to disperse. (It's downtown Phoenix, the only rocks around are landscaping gravel! But that and water bottles at armored and shielded riot cops justifies riot control, I guess, if the crowd throwing things even happened at al.) Just gas and other riot control (maybe rubber bullets?) into the crowd multiple times.

The rest of the teams from my group made it safely out, although some got gassed much worse than I did. We walked past street medics treating tons of folks who were clearly not expecting the pushback from the cops we got-- college girls in short shorts with their eyes streaming being washed in milk of magnesia and Maalox. It seems momentous somehow, Phoenix as far as I know has not been a pepper spray and tear gas city before.

I'm not sure how I feel yet. Not encouraged, that's for sure.
posted by WidgetAlley at 12:43 AM on August 23, 2017 [91 favorites]


Got an eye on a live stream.

Fucking hell.

YouTube live chat is a cesspit dug into the bottom of a cesspit.
posted by flabdablet at 1:05 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have nothing against the gods2.com person, I hope they find some peace and get the help they need. It is worth noting that Trump is in particular magnetic to people suffering from delusions, but then so is the far right in general. They promote fear, paranoia and adversarial worldviews, which are not the healthiest things for people susceptible to delusional thinking.
posted by adept256 at 1:20 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


And both of 'em were elected the 1st time making claims they would be ending the conflict.
To me, the only logical explanation for this is that there's something seriously fucked up over there that the public is not cognizant of. Obama was serious about getting out, to the point where he was taking heat from all sides for wanting to rush out of war. He had some kind of objective and applied a massive surge to it. A surge that ultimately failed if you look at today's Taliban control map. He started to withdraw but never fully pulled the trigger on leaving. I know, I know, lots of people think he's a hawk and all that. Maybe. But now that Trump got into office and has had his briefing, he is also doing the "need m0ar war" shuffle. Perhaps he's doing it to distract from all the Russia/racism stuff, but he seemed pretty depressed and subdued about the whole thing.

I'm not a pure pacifist, though I do have non-interventionist, pacifistic preferences. What I need in order to support armed conflict are three things:

1. A good goddamned reason. I will accept genocide, self-defense against an aggressor (either the US or its allies as per our NATO agreement), or the prevention of an imminent nuclear launch.
2. A clear definition of operational success and a timetable for withdrawal after the achievement of that goal. If occupying/peacekeeping forces are necessary, the status of those forces must be delineated in an official document. Like a treaty.
3. Robust and regular updates on the status of the conflict.

Obama utterly failed to convince me that Afghanistan needed to continue, and Trump's speech was a bunch of words strung together that offered no detail. What the hell is so important that we still need to be there? The Taliban is winning. 4K more troops won't fix it. So what is the point?
posted by xyzzy at 1:23 AM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


So what is the point?

Is it too cynical to think it's simply, "The Powers That Be Are Making Money" ?
posted by mikelieman at 1:26 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]




On Afghanistan, I think the issue is that the US finds it really hard to leave a country in turmoil. Of course, the US presence is causing some of that turmoil. But leaving will also add to it.

This map is a good place to start: it shows the Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Taliban largely began with the Pashtuns, and was trained in the 1990s in Pakistan. In 2001 this suddenly became a Bad Thing (as Bin Laden was operating from that area) and Pakistan was forced to assist the US to fight the Taliban. Obama actually signed an agreement to leave, but to continue to "train" Afghan forces. It would've been embarrassing to leave only to have the Taliban take over the country. (Meanwhile the Taliban, feeling betrayed by Pakistan, extended its struggle into Pakistan.)

With Trump, it sure looks like he talked to the generals (as opposed to, say, diplomats or allies), and they said what they're always going to say: the situation is bad but we just need some more troops and things will improve. This is why you don't delegate military policy to the generals: it's the president who should decide if a war should continue or not.
posted by zompist at 2:21 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


oú sont les butlers d'anton?

pdf, yo.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:24 AM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


it's the president who should decide if a war should continue or not.

The Congress can draft up articles of war. The Congress created the authorization for the use of military force.

What is stopping Congress from Declaring War on day X at time Y:00:00, no use of nuclear force, and also declare the peace at day X at time Y:00:01? (Other than the rest of the world calling the US of A a warmongering nation.) THAT seems simpler than "un" do the AUMF. Or saying "spending on this has to be without borrowing".

Heck, Trump is the prefect person for leaving the Bush era military adventures. "Declare victory" has as much veracity as other claims he's made.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:31 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Taliban is winning. 4K more troops won't fix it. So what is the point?

Avoiding humiliation. I'm not in favour of that as a justification, but avoiding admitting failure is pretty much it.
posted by jaduncan at 3:01 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pro tip: If you watch the speech at 2x speed it's approximately 2% less nauseating. But then you see the insanity in these encapsulated little bursts of yelling and huge gestures and pandering to the crowd.

It's like he's recapping texts from an ex with his new girlfriend but HE is the crappy ex who is making stuff up and calling his ex "the crazy one." It's astonishing.
posted by Crystalinne at 3:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


I can't wait for Phil Rucker's tweet! It's gonna be legend.

The "new Trump" tweet's ratio is so harsh it's getting into Paul Ryan territory.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:48 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


When even the Weekly Standard is calling you a crazed liar...

Donald Trump Insults the Media, Jeff Flake, John McCain, and NAFTA at His Phoenix Rally (Did we mention he's the president of the United States?)
At his campaign-style rally in Phoenix Tuesday night, President Donald Trump reconfirmed one of the laws of his presidency: For every sane, measured presidential action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

One day after striking a sober tone in a coherent speech announcing his administration’s new Afghanistan policy, the president was back in peak demagogic form in Phoenix, raging against his enemies, whining about his unfair treatment in Washington, undercutting his employees, and telling obvious lies, all to the raucous delight of his screaming fans.
posted by chris24 at 4:17 AM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm thinking Trump Cube

Somebody: register trumpcube.com; copy the front page of Time Cube; replace the text with actual Trump word-salad quotes.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:31 AM on August 23, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think the problem with Afghanistan is that if the US withdraws, it will revert to exactly where it was before 9/11, with the Taliban in control and harboring terrorists, and with different warlords creating permanent unrest on the fringes. Which would mean that thousands of soldiers and civilians had died in vain. A repetition of Vietnam, perhaps, and as the years since the Vietnam war pass, interpretations of that experience have taken on a life of their own.
It's a bit since I studied this, but there are also other issues: of Pakistan wanting to control Afghanistan, or even take over the country, of Iran extending it's influence among the warlords and in parts of the country, and of China making inroads as part of it's attempt to create a network of trade routes over land.
posted by mumimor at 4:45 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


The person that already owns trumpcube.com did not see any of this coming.
posted by box at 5:05 AM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


The now infamous Chris "the crying Nazi" Cantwell's shitty week continues

He hasn't been arrested. On his blog (no I'm not linking to it) he's basically trying to weasel out of turning himself in:
Since the VA authorities have proven corrupt, by trying to censor our speech based on content, ignoring a federal court order, and by pushing hundreds of armed white nationalists into a crowd of communist rioters, I doubt both their trustworthiness and their sanity. Since the media obviously got it wrong in reporting my arrest, and their stories differ quite dramatically from the recordings of our interviews, I carry similar doubts about them. Both attorneys I talked to said that I was due all the privileges and immunities of a citizen until I was “served” with a warrant, so I don’t believe I am committing any crime by waiting for more information before I return home or to Virginia. So that is what I am doing right now.
So yeah, he's a chickenshit piece of shit.
posted by Talez at 5:32 AM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think the problem with Afghanistan is that if the US withdraws, it will revert to exactly where it was before 9/11, with the Taliban in control and harboring terrorists, and with different warlords creating permanent unrest on the fringes. Which would mean that thousands of soldiers and civilians had died in vain. A repetition of Vietnam, perhaps, and as the years since the Vietnam war pass, interpretations of that experience have taken on a life of their own.
It's a bit since I studied this, but there are also other issues: of Pakistan wanting to control Afghanistan, or even take over the country, of Iran extending it's influence among the warlords and in parts of the country, and of China making inroads as part of it's attempt to create a network of trade routes over land.


Something along these lines could have been written by the Soviets, of course. I'm still not really seeing what the exit plan is, and how this isn't just kicking the can further down the road before someone metaphorically bites the bullet.
posted by jaduncan at 5:34 AM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


Both attorneys I talked to said that I was due all the privileges and immunities of a citizen until I was “served” with a warrant,

What kind of crap attorneys are these? He keeps his "privileges" as a citizen even if "served". That's the whole 'innocent 'till proven guilty' part of the rule of law. I'd like to see this 'federal court order' - but digging around in the sovereign citizen end of the swamp-0-law never leaves me feeling clean.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:01 AM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


Something along these lines could have been written by the Soviets, of course. I'm still not really seeing what the exit plan is, and how this isn't just kicking the can further down the road before someone metaphorically bites the bullet.

Exactly!

And I think that how you think of Vietnam plays a big part in how you think of Afghanistan. If you focus on the failure/defeat aspect of Vietnam, you'll want to stay on in Afghanistan. If you focus on the current state of Vietnam, you'll be more likely to let Afghanistan go. Since this crosses party lines and involves veterans of several wars, it's politically complicated. There are other parallels btw Vietnam and Afghanistan.
posted by mumimor at 6:02 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump asked the crowd what they think of Sheriff Joe. They chanted PARDON.

Then: "I think he's going to be just fine. But I won't do it tonight because I don't want to cause any controversy, is that ok?


I would like to apologize now for my 2001 monkey paw wish that people would get more politically involved and leaders would listen to them.
posted by corb at 6:03 AM on August 23, 2017 [81 favorites]


Part of me has been counting down to the inevitable bloodshed. But we've had that, haven't we? Not quite; Heather Heyer's senseless death and the many wounded can be pawned off on a Lone Wolf who Was Crazy and Was Provoked By Antifa and Was Scared and Was Probably A Democrat Plant Anyway. And even though Trump has called for anti-protester violence openly and repeatedly and denounced Nazis only through clenched teeth, he has some slight distance from that.

No, I am waiting for flat-out Death In The Name Of Trump. Some poor person protesting (or just looking Suspiciously Unwhite) getting blatantly shot or stabbed or stomped to death at a Trump rally by MAGA-hatted patriots on camera. Kent State meets Altamont, blend and serve over ice.

It's coming, sure as rain on a London Sunday morning. So if you're going out to fight the good fight and protest this insanity, don't become That Person. Protect yourself at all times, be ready to move, keep multiple escape routes in mind, do not start violence, prioritize discretion over valor. Be smart and safe and try to influence others to follow suit. Be ready for anything and never assume the other side will act rationally.
posted by delfin at 6:17 AM on August 23, 2017 [23 favorites]




It's coming

Yes. Plus a journalist is going to get killed. He's egging his followers to it.
posted by jgirl at 6:34 AM on August 23, 2017 [22 favorites]


Analysis: As Trump ranted and rambled in Phoenix, his crowd slowly thinned
Hundreds left early, while others plopped down on the ground, scrolled through their social media feeds or started up a conversation with their neighbors. After waiting for hours in 107-degree heat to get into the rally hall – where their water bottles were confiscated by security – people were tired and dehydrated and the president just wasn’t keeping their attention. Although Trump has long been the master of reading the mood of a room and quickly adjusting his message to satisfy as many of his fans as possible, his rage seemed to cloud his senses.
posted by mikepop at 6:35 AM on August 23, 2017 [45 favorites]



It's coming


But nothing in your scenario indicates that it wouldn't also be explained away as a false flag or Democratic plants or a total inexplicable anomaly or Scared By Black PeopleTM. It is 100% no true Scotsmen all the way down. The Party of Personal Responsibility is absolutely committed to never taking responsibility for anything.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:38 AM on August 23, 2017 [50 favorites]


His comment after saying people thought he was crazy to run, "Maybe I am," makes me wonder if he really is contemplating resignation as his biographer has predicted.

Rather than being pegged as a quitter, he could just frame it as building a foundation, the best springboard, a huge start for Pence, who would just gaze at him with that look.
posted by jgirl at 6:40 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


The most important thing for going to protests is only go alone if you're really sure how a protest will go. So for instance, I would absolutely go to the March for Science, the Women's March or any very large gathering where there's a clear plan and it's been permitted, or to any small ad hoc protest about policy, etc etc. Use your judgment about your city.

Here in MPLS, I would (and have) gone by myself to BLM marches, depending on the march.

The point shouldn't be, "they are going to shoot up your weekly protest outside the City Council meeting, better be careful and scared" - that's not how protests have historically gone, basically anywhere.

But if it's going to be a counter-protest, or a protest that seems likely to attract a counter-protest, go with people. Again, use your judgment. There is no history in this country of violence so organized that it is present at every protest on an issue over time and across regions.

Here in MPLS, only a very, very small number of protests involve arrests and violence - even most of the anti-Nazi/anti-fascist ones I've been to over the years did not*. I worry a little that this violence at a very particular protest may convince people that it can happen at any protest, when that is vanishingly unlikely.

Also, set your limits in advance. Now, for the Science March or whatever, this is more like "I am only going to sit through ten speakers and then I'm going to pack up" or "I don't want to stay past 1pm". For most protests and marches, it's pretty much the same - "I'm going to march to city hall but not stay for the speakers" or "I need to leave at 6". For more eventful events, you might want to think, "I am cool with a large unpermitted street march, but I am not in a position to block the highway, so I won't do that" or "I am cool with marching on the highway but I'm not going to sit down and lock down" or "if I see people doing open carry, I am going home" or whatever.

I want to stress that you should know your city. Here in MPLS, the policy has often been that big unpermitted street marches are not subject to arrest, presumably because arresting hundreds of people and potentially having all the violence and scuffles that would entail is far more expensive and disruptive than letting the march go. Most of the highway marches I've been on have not ended in arrests, either.

Again, it's better to push yourself to participate a little than to sit home. It's better to be the person who just goes on the legal part of the march, or the person who just goes to the rally, or the person who stays on the sidewalk than to sit home. You are the only person who knows what your particular limits/needs/restrictions are, and you are the only person who knows, eg, that crowds make you super anxious, so just showing up and marching on the sidewalk for thirty minutes is a big, big deal for you.


*The most hilarious one, although in retrospect a sad augury of things to come - some Nazis let it be known that they were going to march outside the Lake Street YWCA. As you know, Bob, the YWCA has as one of its mottos "empowering women, eliminating racism", and that particular YWCA has a large immigrant and POC client base. However, if you're going to protest a YWCA, you can't pick one in the most left-wing part of the city and also on the train line and a major bus line (or indeed in the city at all). So of course, when all three of the Nazis arrived in their tiny car, they were met by a crowd that pretty much surrounded the whole YWCA and was almost too large for the block to contain - hundreds of people. They stood there for a few minutes gawping and getting shouted at before turning neatly on their Nazi heels and marching back to the car. I can't imagine what they expected would happen besides that.
posted by Frowner at 6:43 AM on August 23, 2017 [101 favorites]


Front page of the Arizona Republic

Just nuts.
posted by jgirl at 6:44 AM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


Yes. Plus a journalist is going to get killed. He's egging his followers to it.

The Right Side Broadcasting Network is a Trumpist cult youtube phenomenon that only exists to livestream Trump-related events and fawn over him. After the rally last night they were interviewing one of their own on-scene correspondents. She related that a gentleman had walked up to her in the press pen and told her that none of them would be spared when the time comes, then made finger-guns at her and told her "we're coming to get you."

She seemed a little confused and put-off by the whole thing, as if not fully understanding what she and her employers had helped to accomplish.

It's gonna be bad.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on August 23, 2017 [56 favorites]


Front page of the Arizona Republic

Just nuts.


I don't get it: are they serious, or kidding? I mean, it's AZ, so I can't actually tell.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:53 AM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


One thing I consider when thinking of "it's going to be bad" scenarios: We've had bad scenarios before in this country. The Civil Rights movement was subject to great violence. Labor organizers have been subject to great violence. DAPL protesters were subject to great violence. But still, as a broad generality, most people working on those issues were not harmed.

Obviously, one person being hurt is too many, but when you're calculating your own risk, it's important to be realistic and not be too downhearted. What is the nature of the work you're doing? Who will you be encountering? What is the history of your particular city or region? What specific thing will you be doing - will you be in the thick of the protest or on the sidelines? Are you well-known to police or fascists? Where will all this be happening?

I have been in a few violent mass protests. What is always surprising to me - and what the media is extremely misleading about - is that the violence tends to be small and very localized, and avoidable, also slow. These protests have always been unusual and highly signposted in advance. In one case, I just left, with a couple of friends - I saw that the protest was skewing toward a big confrontation with the cops (which happened, lots of tear gas, lots of beat-downs) and I literally grabbed my friends by the hand and we found a discreet way out of the area, because I don't really want to get arrested anymore unless it's absolutely, clearly useful.

The media always makes it look like everything for blocks around an area is just a melee, but this has never, ever been the case in my experience.
posted by Frowner at 6:58 AM on August 23, 2017 [57 favorites]


My point is that Charlottesville was a terrible, terrible thing, but also very unusual.
posted by Frowner at 7:02 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]




Thanks kirkaracha this is the best thing. I just shared with my coworker and we had a lol.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:21 AM on August 23, 2017


Front page of the Arizona Republic

Just nuts.

I don't get it: are they serious, or kidding? I mean, it's AZ, so I can't actually tell.



I've lived in Arizona for years, ran a political blog, worked on campaigns, personally know a number of politicos here, and have read the quite-conservative AZ Republic more than I care to remember, and I can't tell, either. The photo seems to be obvious trolling, but I'm not sure which side is the target.

Trump has ruined even the old, reliable antagonisms.
posted by darkstar at 7:22 AM on August 23, 2017 [20 favorites]


The media always makes it look like everything for blocks around an area is just a melee, but this has never, ever been the case in my experience.

We had the G20 here several years ago, with accompanying usual G20 demos and direct actions, and by the breathlessness of the media and, disappointingly but not surprisingly* you'd have thought the whole city was burning to the ground nightly. It was utterly ridiculous fearmongering.

Related, I think so much stupid fearful bullshit is created by media markets that are larger than their "local" news coverage areas. Watching the local news from a place that you don't actually live and rarely visit is enough to convince anyone that cities are heaving dens of murder and mayhem 24/7.


*Is there a German word for this? I feel like I am spending my entire life these days being utterly unsurprised at all the heinous, vile bullshit happening, but upset nonetheless.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Poll: Trump hits new low after Charlottesville
President Donald Trump’s approval rating has hit a new low following a week in which a majority of voters believe he did more to divide the country than unite it, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll shows.

Only 39 percent of voters approve of the job Trump is doing in this week’s poll — conducted entirely following the president’s various scripted and impromptu reactions to the violence in Charlottesville, Virginia — down from 44 percent just a week ago. Fifty-six percent of voters disapprove in the new poll, up from 52 percent last week.

Much of the decline in Trump’s approval rating appears to have come from self-identified Republican voters — 73 percent, down from 81 percent last week. By contrast, the president’s approval rating slid just a single point among Democrats and independents.

Trump’s previous overall low — a 40 percent rating — was two weeks ago.

---

Trump is at the lowest point of his presidency, but the poll also shows — on some measures — that majorities of voters have low opinions of his character and competence. Fifty-one percent of voters say Trump is not a strong leader. Fifty-three percent say he is not moral. Fifty-five percent say he isn’t stable. Fifty-eight percent of voters call him reckless. Fifty-two percent say he isn’t honest. Fifty-two percent say Trump doesn’t care about people like them. Fifty-six percent say he can’t unite the country.

The president’s standing isn’t much better on other questions. Only 41 percent say he is knowledgeable, compared with 47 percent who say he isn’t. Just 35 percent say he keeps his promises; 49 percent say he doesn’t. Forty-one percent say he is capable, but 48 percent say he isn’t.
He lost 10% of his base in the last week.
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on August 23, 2017 [57 favorites]


> Poll: Trump hits new low after Charlottesville

I think at this point copy editors' computers autocomplete "T" to "Trump hits new low".
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2017 [32 favorites]


From TPM:
So much for being “very presidential.”

Less than 12 hours after patting himself on the back for avoiding the use of Sen. Jeff Flake’s (R-AZ) name as he attacked the senator during a big rally in Arizona, President Trump took to twitter to make his complaints about Flake even more explicit.
posted by darkstar at 7:25 AM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


some Nazis let it be known that they were going to march outside the Lake Street YWCA.

An interesting point on the Slate Trumpcast discussing Antifa was how much of what they do is purely investigative and preventative; actually going out on the street is a last resort.
Virginia Heffernan chats with Mark Bray, the author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, to figure out who the antifa are and where the movement comes from.
posted by Buntix at 7:27 AM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


These days, the Onion can barely keep up.
@TheOnion: Soldier Excited To Take Over Father’s Old Afghanistan Patrol Route http://trib.al/LaxWWfk
12:46 PM - 22 Aug 2017
@BrianKarem: Met a man today who served in Afghanistan 16 yrs ago -now says his son serves there. Let that sink in as you support perpetual war
1:50 PM - 22 Aug 2017
posted by zabuni at 7:30 AM on August 23, 2017 [94 favorites]


hey gen-xers and other olds: remember the 90s and then end of history? [vaguely manic laughter that gradually turns into racked sobbing]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:39 AM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]


Yeah, I was just reading an article on Daryle Jenkins, the guy who runs One People's Project, who said similar things about antifa. He's not anti-violence, exactly, but he points out that the Black Bloc types aren't the only type of antifa group. The article begins with him just taking video of Nazis during the RNC but goes on to give various examples of work his group has done. In one instance a group member reported a psychiatric nurse who posted online stating that she wished she could give her Jewish and black clients cyanide instead of antidepressants(!!!). So it's good that they're around.

(Mr. Jenkins was the gentleman who helped a violent white supremacist and his family get out of the life and get laser tattoo removal to take all the Nazi symbols off his face and neck. It took 26 sessions or so.)
posted by xyzzy at 7:41 AM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


It’s ‘Tequila’ But With Trump Shouting ‘Antifa!’

tuba guy, you know what you must do
posted by entropicamericana at 7:43 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


hey gen-xers and other olds: remember the 90s and then end of history?

It's the end of the world as we know it
it's the end of the world as we know it
it's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel...illllllllllllllll
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:45 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]




'He's anti-left, anti-PC, anti-stupid': Trump supporters in their own words

These people are up there with the Yanomami and Trobriand Islanders for levels of anthropological study at this point. Just... am I allowed to not care? I really want to not care.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:50 AM on August 23, 2017 [27 favorites]


James Clapper was confirmed unanimously by the Senate as Director of National Intelligence, including by one of my GOP senators. Now James Clapper says the President is a threat to national security. I will call my senator and ask whether they will leap into action for the sake of the nation!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2017 [56 favorites]


'He's anti-left, anti-PC, anti-stupid'

To defeat stupid, one must become stupid.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


I slammed my browser tab closed after this: "I agreed with him on border protection and didn’t want someone being investigated by the FBI sitting in our president’s seat." HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU.
posted by xyzzy at 7:53 AM on August 23, 2017 [40 favorites]


From the linked Guardian article:

"I agreed with him on border protection and didn’t want someone being investigated by the FBI sitting in our president’s seat." -- Jillian Henry, 19, biology student

Um, well, Jillian ...
posted by jgirl at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


"I think nobody knows more about stupid than I do, maybe in the history of the world."
posted by snofoam at 7:58 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would voluntarily forego my voting franchise, if the rest of my family would do likewise.
posted by darkstar at 8:04 AM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


Supposedly the cops in Phoenix will investigate the use of force last night. Call me when somebody gets fired or any disciplinary action is taken (it won't).
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:04 AM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


Met a man today who served in Afghanistan 16 yrs ago -now says his son serves there. Let that sink in as you support perpetual war

One third of Afghan people are under 25yo. That's about 11 million people with no memory of a time before war. How are they ever going to achieve peace when they don't even know what that looks like?

Here is a contrasting photo of an Afghan park in 1980 and 2014. That's beyond the living memory of almost half the population. They wouldn't recognize their own country during peacetime.

An entire generation at war will likely take a further generation without war to replace them. That's the timescale we're talking about. Let that sink in.
posted by adept256 at 8:04 AM on August 23, 2017 [55 favorites]


I've come to the conclusion that White Americans should not be granted universal suffrage

Yet another terrible demonstration of how whites are the most discriminated-against group in America.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:05 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


The last one in the Guardian article:
Do you think I’d be that stupid to vote for an actual racist to be in office?
Let me ponder that for a while.
posted by farlukar at 8:07 AM on August 23, 2017 [39 favorites]


Frowner, thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge about protests. As someone who is new to this (to my shame, it's taken Trump to get me off of my ass), it's super helpful to have your perspective.
posted by mcduff at 8:08 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Well, judging by the Guardian article, the right is definitely good at messaging. They seem straight-up brainwashed. How can you look around you, white people, and see no one who is not like you and figure that it's fair?
posted by lauranesson at 8:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Do you think I’d be that stupid to vote for an actual racist to be in office?

If we start from the predicate that Trump voters didn't make a terrible mistake in November he's actually doing a pretty good job
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


And btw, that looks like an Afghan woman with bare shoulders and knees in that photo. No-one would ever believe that happened.
posted by adept256 at 8:11 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


My point is that Charlottesville was a terrible, terrible thing, but also very unusual.

Which is correct, except that very little about anything is following usual rules these days.

I am not saying "everyone stay home or we'll all be murdered in our protests." I am saying that there is violence in the air because our dingbat in chief is running out of things to feed crowds with besides fear and rage. Standing in a crowd of like-minded people, Heather didn't feel in danger, either. Don't be paranoid... But stay aware.
posted by delfin at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Only 41 percent say he is knowledgeable

"Only"?
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:25 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


How to bully and behave like a jackass is a thing one could be knowledgeable about, I suppose.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:29 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


I am in the hospital right now (for reasons unrelated to the POTUS), and I am in the same hospital where my wife happened to work in 2008 when the RNC was here in the Twin Cities. Lying in my hospital bed and reading all this talk of demonstrations and violence prompted me to recall this absolutely true story from 2008:

So my wife was part of a team that was handling contingency planning for the RNC, should things go bad and they had a lot of people needing emergency care. This was a multi-institution effort; all the hospitals in the area were working out a plan together. They recognized that it would be important to have a way to identify folks they were seeing as a result of the RNC and differentiate those from normal business, but there was no way to know what a person might be brought in for - it might be a lefty who got their head bashed, it might be some random delegate who happened to have a heart attack, all sorts of things, but they wanted to be able to tie all this business back to the convention.

The medical records software that the hospitals use has a feature called a "Problem List" where you note everything that's relevant to understanding the patient - not just what issue they're presenting with but anything their care provider needs to know. So you might be treating someone for their broken arm, but the Problem List would also say "diabetic" and "left knee was replaced three years ago" or something like that.

So the decision my wife and her team made was that in order to facilitate tracking and reporting on all the patients that all the hospitals in the Twin Cities saw who were in town for the RNC or presenting as result of something related to the RNC, their care provider would put "Republican" on their Problem List.
posted by nickmark at 8:33 AM on August 23, 2017 [64 favorites]


I am in the hospital right now

Monday night the Spousal Unit and I were also in the hospital ( for possible arrival of second wee baby Device, however it turned out to be false labor), right around the time that Lord Dampnut was giving his Afghanistan speech, and my wife yelled "WHY IS HE ON TV", so my spousal duties were to quickly change the channel. Which was around a 4 minute process as he was on the first 12 channels we checked.
posted by Twain Device at 8:38 AM on August 23, 2017 [22 favorites]


lauranesson: "Well, judging by the Guardian article, the right is definitely good at messaging. They seem straight-up brainwashed. How can you look around you, white people, and see no one who is not like you and figure that it's fair?"

There's been some talk in recent times about media bubbles and the like as contributing factors to our current polarization. I would suggest that, while media bubbles can be (and probably are) a problem, a more pressing concern right now should be that one of those bubbles contains a very high amount of pure propaganda. I mean, when Fox has lowered the bar sufficiently for Breitbart to be considered a "news outlet", things seem pretty far gone.
posted by mhum at 8:47 AM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


Is there anybody in Congress stating their support for Stupid Hitler this morning?
posted by scalefree at 8:51 AM on August 23, 2017


right around the time that Lord Dampnut was giving his Afghanistan speech

I considered turning on the TV last night for the Phoenix speech but they're giving me some pretty amazing painkillers here and I didn't want him harshing my buzz.
posted by nickmark at 8:54 AM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


The ‘Blacks for Trump’ Guy Is a Former Member of a Murderous Cult Who Thinks Obama Is the Devil
It didn’t take an eagle eye to notice the “Blacks for Trump” signs just over Donald Trump’s left shoulder at his Tuesday rally in Sanford, Florida. The middle-aged white woman enthusiastically waving hers was particularly memorable. But the man next to her, a fringe political figure in South Florida who goes by Michael the Black Man, is the real star here.

A former member of the murderous Yahweh ben Yahweh cult, Michael has found himself with front-row seats to several recent Trump events in South Florida, always waving his “Blacks for Trump” sign and wearing a shirt that says “Trump & Republicans Are Not Racist.” At Tuesday’s rally in Sanford, Trump took notice. “I love the signs behind me. Blacks for Trump. I like those signs. Blacks for Trump. You watch. You watch. Those signs are great,” he said.
...
Before he was winning attaboys from prominent members of the GOP, Michael ran with a vicious black-supremacist cult. In the early '90s, Michael and 15 other members of the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult were charged with conspiring in two murders, and even though his own brother testified that Michael stabbed a man in the eye with a sharp stick, he was let off by a Florida jury. In the decades since, he’s become a novel figure in South Florida, racking up criminal charges but no convictions and running a radio show that features his rants on “Demon-crats.”
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


Before he was winning attaboys from prominent members of the GOP, Michael ran with a vicious black-supremacist cult.

He just went from one cult to another, it seems. I really do think that 21st century Republicans are a cult. It explains so much about the rabid groupthink, insularity, and resistance to any kind of reason.

I think there are various points of entry into the cult (isolation, sense of entitlement, cognitive decline on the part of older people) but once they're in, they all seem so utterly brainwashed.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:00 AM on August 23, 2017 [33 favorites]


You know, in the sense that Donald Trump has made America a more miserable place to be, he has already built a wall.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:02 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


That Blacks for Trump man is plainly delusional. Exploiting delusions is a republican strategy. They nurture fear and paranoia and a them-or-us mindset. I agree it's a form of brainwashing, not to mention extremely cruel to it's victims. Looking at his website, he seems to be in a great deal of pain. Mentally blocking out objective reality every waking moment must be so draining.
posted by adept256 at 9:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


utterly brainwashed.

I don't understand how else people explain away the sheer incompetence at Presidenting
posted by thelonius at 9:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


To me, the only logical explanation for this is that there's something seriously fucked up over there that the public is not cognizant of.

Graveyard of f***ing Empires.

Very long story short. There is no more divided nation on earth than Afghanistan ... until someone invades. Which is always easy. There is no easier country to invade, because it is so divided. But getting the hell out -- that's another story.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


One theme of all the interviews and articles I've been reading about ex-white supremacists is that getting un-indoctrinated takes years and deep patience from a kind, thoughtful soul who is willing to help. David Duke's godson did an interview where he said it took two years of weekly Shabbat dinners with a Jewish friend in college who was actively challenging his beliefs to finally see the light. It feels incredibly overwhelming to think about mitigating or ameliorating even some of the damage Fox (and CNN, to some extent) has done to this country. I'm almost at the point where I feel like something needs to be done about propaganda masquerading as news. I don't know what it would be, but this feels like a very damaging cycle we're in.
posted by xyzzy at 9:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [40 favorites]


lauranesson: "Well, judging by the Guardian article, the right is definitely good at messaging. They seem straight-up brainwashed. How can you look around you, white people, and see no one who is not like you and figure that it's fair?"

There's that research about how men, when a work group/meeting is about 1/4 women, perceive the gender balance as 50-50. When it hits 1/3 they think there's more women than men. There's similar stuff about how often women speak. It seems very reasonable to me to assume that we white folks have the same perception about PoC in visibility, equality, voice.

Just more "the bubble ain't us in the cities" stuff, I think. I remember clear as day the time, about 25 years ago, when a friend going to college at Carlton had me up for a visit. She took me to see the spectacle that is the Mall of the Americas and I spent the first few minutes walking around trying to figure out what seemed off to me. It's just a mall, after all. Then I saw a black face and realized it was just how overwhelmingly monotone white the crowd seemed to me after a childhood growing up in Miami. And it's not like my childhood in the Kendall suburbs had been all that racially integrated or I was experiencing this as a PoC myself or even that Minneapolis was all blonde & blue eyed children of the corn. It was just a way different balance than I was used to.

I think those folks, loaded up full of both the background radiation of American racism we all get and possibly more implicit/explicit helpings from their home lives, look around them and get disquieted by the tiniest of imbalances from what they're used to. And what they're used to is their baseline of okay, at best, and any more being PoC in public and acting like they deserve to be there and have their own identity... obviously that change is Unacceptable And A Problem. After all, we were told over and over again that the civil rights movement was years ago and we're post-racial and american exceptionalism blah blah blah. So if 'those people' get anything more than they already have it must be unfair. To them, the white folks.
posted by phearlez at 9:18 AM on August 23, 2017 [39 favorites]


What makes a person like that? To wake up in the morning and think, I am a good person, and I deserve what I have? How do people get to be that way? And what must it be like? It has to be intoxicating, but I can't even imagine it.

I blame the self-esteem movement in the '80s.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:24 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


even that Minneapolis was all blonde & blue eyed children of the corn

My wife's family--dark hair and eyes--was driving across the US about 30 years ago and a bunch of kids in some podunk they stopped in told them they looked like the Addams Family because nobody around them had dark features. There exist places so white that bog-standard white New Yorkers look like foreigners.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:27 AM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


From last night's Don Lemon reaction: A man clearly wounded by the rational people who are abandoning him in droves, meaning those business people, and the people in Washington now who are questioning his fitness for office and whether he is stable.

Oh, they are now, are they? Well, if they have (R) after their names, that isn't good enough. Hillary Clinton told the nation in so many words that Trump is not fit for office. And now they admit she is right? There's nothing new to see here. It was obvious then, so why the change?

I'll tell you why: Because they think this is all a game, and Trump would help them win. And now he isn't, so they're willing to admit what a majority of Americans have always known: That he was never fit for office, and supporting him was a betrayal of this nation.

Forgiveness should not come easy for these people.
posted by Gelatin at 9:31 AM on August 23, 2017 [44 favorites]


Also a trial run at pardoning, friends, associates, and supporters because fuck you: I can.
posted by notyou at 9:45 AM on August 23, 2017 [33 favorites]


You know, in the sense that Donald Trump has made America a more miserable place to be, he has already built a wall.

The true wall was the Facebook friends we lost along the way.
posted by redsparkler at 9:46 AM on August 23, 2017 [44 favorites]


it is not appropriate to send him to prison for "enforcing the law"

how about contempt of court tho
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:48 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


The first letter of each paragraph in his resignation letter spells IMPEACH.

@dan_kammen
Mr. President, I am resigning as Science Envoy. Your response to Charlottesville enables racism, sexism, & harms our country and planet. [LETTER]
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on August 23, 2017 [93 favorites]


One of the counter-points to "Trump isn't technically breaking the law" rhetoric (which comes up surprisingly often) is that it is technically legal for the President to pardon people who murder his enemies, but this would rightly be seen as an extreme abuse of power.

And so here we are with Joe Arpaio.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:51 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


OK the secret acronym resignation letter thing was okay the first time around and I'm willing to give this one a pass (if only because "Science Envoy" is a pretty kickass title) but let's have a moratorium on them going forward
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:53 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump is legally entitled to pardon Arpaio just as the legislature is legally entitled to impeach him for "unconscionable acts of racism" or whatever they choose. Sadly I fear we will have to wait for the conclusion of OMNIGATE and more specific charges.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:55 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Thoughts and prayers for those putting up the good fight in Reno today where protesters have previously had vehicles used against them.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 9:56 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Very long story short. There is no more divided nation on earth than Afghanistan ... until someone invades. Which is always easy. There is no easier country to invade, because it is so divided. But getting the hell out -- that's another story.

No kidding on the Afghan divide. My 3x great-grandfather was the Governor of Kandahar at the time of the First Anglo-Afghan war and encouraged the King to allow a peaceful retreat for the British forces. To some Afghans, he is still considered a traitor, to the point that his descendants would not be safe. No blood feud quite like an Pashtun blood feud.
posted by nikitabot at 9:58 AM on August 23, 2017 [53 favorites]


I'll tell you why: Because they think this is all a game, and Trump would help them win. And now he isn't, so they're willing to admit what a majority of Americans have always known: That he was never fit for office, and supporting him was a betrayal of this nation.

Forgiveness should not come easy for these people.


Absolutely, and not just a game, a game played for personal reward and satisfaction, driven by naked greed and venal, disgusting self-interest. I'm less interested in forgiveness than in whether or not we will actually, collectively learn anything from this awful mess.

And in whether or not we can attend to the underlying primary cause of President Donald Trump, and notice that our media--i.e., the primary means by which we know the world and through which we communicate (for so many people even more than their own bodies)--is diseased, broken, malfunctioning, causing really, really bad stuff to happen in the actual world it's supposed to be only mediating. We must change our behaviors, individually in some important ways, and get out of this irrational, fight-or-flight, emotional-intensity-as-drug-hit mode of being, and find ways to be more calm, reflective, other-centered, compassionate--you know, all the stuff that our best teachers have been telling us about ourselves for, oh, probably ever.

But truly, if we can't calm the fuck down, notice that the world is not in fact immediately on fire, that things are actually pretty robustly good at the moment and that some of our biggest problems may actually be quite solvable (and others vastly mitigated), we're just going to move on to the next episode of this terrible show we keep projecting out into the real world because all those monoamine neurotransmitter hits are just so so sweet or ego gratification or that's-what-the-tee-vee-said or whatever, and it's going to be louder and worse. I would like to get off of this particular treadmill; we're better than this.

(I think that's one of the biggest reasons so many find these ongoing threads so, so essential to coping with our current reality: not just the objectively great stuff (information, links, recommendations, compassionate worldviews, passionate and principled intensity) but a general sense of one's reality being fundamentally informed by facts, good information and thoughtfulness--you know, your basic Enlightenment Citizen Starter Pack--that really is an oasis is this superstorm of mediation run amok.)
posted by LooseFilter at 9:58 AM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


OK the secret acronym resignation letter thing was okay the first time around and I'm willing to give this one a pass (if only because "Science Envoy" is a pretty kickass title) but let's have a moratorium on them going forward

Arnold Schwarzenegger already mastered the form.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:59 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


David Roth, The Baffler: The President of Blank Sucking Nullity
It is not quite fair to say that Donald Trump lacks core beliefs, but to the extent that we can take apart these beliefs they amount to Give Donald Trump Your Money and Donald Trump Should Really Be on Television More. The only comprehensible throughline to his politics is that everything Trump says is something he’s said previously, with additional very’s and more-and-more’s appended over time; his worldview amounts to the sum of the dumb shit he saw on the cover of the New York Post in 1985, subjected to a few decades of rancid compounding interest and deteriorating mental aptitude. He watches a lot of cable news, but he struggles to follow even stories that have been custom built for people like him—old, uninformed, amorphously if deeply aggrieved. [...]

There is no room for other people in the world that Trump has made for himself, and this is fundamental to the anxiety of watching him impose his claustrophobic and airless interior world on our own. Is Trump a racist? Yes, because that’s a default setting for stupid people; also, he transparently has no regard for other people at all. Does Trump care about the cheap-looking statue of Stonewall Jackson that some forgotten Dixiecrat placed in a shithole park somewhere he will never visit? Not really, but he so resents the fact that other people expect him to care that he develops a passionate contrary opinion out of spite. Does he even know about . . . Let me stop you there. The answer is no.

The answer is always no, and it will always be no because he does not care.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on August 23, 2017 [86 favorites]


No corroborating source, but Today's 5 (linked above for an update on Cantwell, but also publishes articles like "Top 5 Festival Sluts") reports that the man hit by a rubber bullet or tear gas canister[Daily Fail] after kicking a canister has died.
The man in this video is Charles Willows, 21, senior at Arizona State University. He was pronounced dead at 3:10 AM ET. Investigators are awaiting autopsy results but it is clear internal bleeding will be found as the cause.

EMS first responder Ethan Schwartz believes the death could have been prevented, “We were not alerted of the incident until 2 maybe 3 hours after it had happened… roads were a mess, to me it seems like a life could have been saved had we been able to get there sooner.”
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 10:01 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Racism, utter disregard for the rule of law and grift are all core GOP values, and Arpaio embodies all three, so a pardon is a given.
posted by Artw at 10:04 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


After trying to study CSS recently and dealing with Flexbox confusing things, I really like that idea that racism is the default. It seems like racism is the default and sliding into it is easy and fighting it in your own head is forever useful, but it is the default. So fight it in your own head and fight it in the streets. It is not only the default for stupid people; it is the default for everybody. And make the main axis vertical, if you want.
posted by lauranesson at 10:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


I would have thought that Trump wouldn't pardon Arpaio because he has no sense of loyalty outside his family and it would harm him politically; but now that he cares only about pleasing the people who turn out to his rallies, it would certainly make sense.

Dylann Roof is still on death row, so there's another option.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


'He enforced the law' is a terrible talking point for pardoning someone who broke the law, and doubly so for someone who was in contempt of court; but as a dogwhistle, it's pretty clear so maybe that's the real point here.

It's all white jury nullification, just with the President doing it instead.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:08 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


After trying to study CSS recently and dealing with Flexbox confusing things, I really like that idea that racism is the default.

I felt the same way when Python convinced me that we should seize the means of production
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:08 AM on August 23, 2017 [54 favorites]


It was C++ which really raised my class consciousness, though.
posted by Coventry at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2017 [34 favorites]


Avoid anti-Semitic LISP; it makes everything out to be a (((global))) conspiracy.
posted by Freon at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2017 [18 favorites]


Before that we didn't even have garbage collection.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:13 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


I would have thought that Trump wouldn't pardon Arpaio because he has no sense of loyalty outside his family and it would harm him politically; but now that he cares only about pleasing the people who turn out to his rallies, it would certainly make sense.

Joe Arpaio, who made his inmates wear pink underwear as a sheer display of fuck-you dominance? Trump only wishes he were that creative a troll. This pardon's on the merits (said merits being librul tears).
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's originally Family Guy, so, sorry, but as a coder, not a designer, I loved this gif so much I put it in my text expander shortcuts under ".csssucks."
posted by phearlez at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


Salieri: “42 months? There's no way we can hold on for 42 months of this president! Shit!

I think this is part of the same thing where a day in Genesis counts for, like, a billion years or something.

We're all on Trump Time now.”
As a point of data on this, I made a Pokemon Go joke this morning as if it were from years ago. That was only last summer. It only feels like years ago.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Dylann Roof is still on death row, so there's another option.

Even if Dylann Roof is pardoned he will still be facing state charges which are life in prison. Either way, he will spend the rest of his life in a 6x8 box with only the minimal amount of human interaction for his own protection.
posted by Talez at 10:16 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Assuming a pardon goes through, is there any sort of non-federal crime Arpaio can be charged with (but maybe wasn't because they were focused on the federal charges)?
posted by mikepop at 10:16 AM on August 23, 2017


Poll: Trump hits new low after Charlottesville

You can say that agai -- oh, in approval.
posted by Gelatin at 10:18 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


New Quinnipiac poll - Trump's approval is at 35. 35!
posted by prefpara at 10:23 AM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


he so resents the fact that other people expect him to care that he develops a passionate contrary opinion out of spite

modern republican party in a nutshell
posted by entropicamericana at 10:24 AM on August 23, 2017 [18 favorites]


After trying to study CSS recently and dealing with Flexbox confusing things, I really like that idea that racism is the default.

But it seems that for our president, display:racist !important;
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:24 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


LooseFilter: truly, if we can't calm the fuck down, notice that the world is not in fact immediately on fire, that things are actually pretty robustly good at the moment and that some of our biggest problems may actually be quite solvable (and others vastly mitigated), we're just going to move on to the next episode of this terrible show we keep projecting out into the real world

Boy, I sure hope you are not another white straight cis male able-bodied person telling the rest of us how to feel.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:24 AM on August 23, 2017 [21 favorites]


> No corroborating source, but Today's 5 (linked above for an update on Cantwell, but also publishes articles like "Top 5 Festival Sluts") reports that the man hit by a rubber bullet or tear gas canister[Daily Fail] after kicking a canister has died.

Your links may be broken, ASCII Costanza head. Would you mind providing a link to the piece reporting that Charles Willows was pronounced dead? (Google's not helping.)
posted by christopherious at 10:24 AM on August 23, 2017


From the Quinnipiac poll
In an open-ended question, allowing for any answers, 64 voters (not percent) say "strong" is the first word that comes to mind when they think of Trump. "Idiot" is the first word for 59 voters. Another 58 voters say "incompetent," as 50 say "liar" and 49 say "president."
Gotta give some props here that "idiot" has shored up the moron-dimwit-fucktard-asshat bloc. You usually don't see that kind of unity.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


But it seems that for our president, display:racist !important;

He is absolutely the sort of person to use !important. Everywhere. Everything is !important. The whole layout is broken now but he's really sure he can fix it by more use of !important.
posted by Sequence at 10:28 AM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


That idiot / incompetent divide though. This is why we need ranked choice voting
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:28 AM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


Motherfucker would write titles in all caps instead of using Text-Transform though.
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


"You know, Donnie, you're what the French call les incompetents. "
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]




Hillary Clinton's 'skin crawled' when Donald Trump stood behind her in debates

""This is not okay, I thought," Clinton said, reading from her book. "It was the second presidential debate and Donald Trump was looming behind me. Two days before, the world heard him brag about groping woman. Now we were on a small stage and no matter where I walked, he followed me closely, staring at me, making faces.

"It was incredibly uncomfortable. He was literally breathing down my neck. My skin crawled. It was one of those moments where you wish you could hit pause and ask everyone watching, 'Well, what would you do?' Do you stay calm, keep smiling and carry on as if he weren't repeatedly invading your space? Or do you turn, look him in the eye and say loudly and clearly, 'Back up, you creep. Get away from me. I know you love to intimidate women, but you can't intimidate me, so back up.'""
posted by supercrayon at 10:33 AM on August 23, 2017 [123 favorites]


I'm almost at the point where I feel like something needs to be done about propaganda masquerading as news.

Already taken care of, with comprehensive thoroughness, years and years and years ago.

Oh wait. You're against this?
posted by flabdablet at 10:36 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]



But it seems that for our president, display:racist !important;

He is absolutely the sort of person to use !important. Everywhere. Everything is !important. The whole layout is broken now but he's really sure he can fix it by more use of !important.


Jeez, I'd better get on Lynda.com already.

/derail
posted by jgirl at 10:39 AM on August 23, 2017


Rachel Maddow Show: Trump wanted McConnell to ‘protect him’ from Russia scandal probe
In a series of tweets this month, Mr. Trump criticized Mr. McConnell publicly, and berated him in a phone call that quickly devolved into a profane shouting match.

During the call, which Mr. Trump initiated on Aug. 9 from his New Jersey golf club, the president accused Mr. McConnell of bungling the health care issue. He was even more animated about what he intimated was the Senate leader’s refusal to protect him from investigations of Russian interference in the 2016 election, according to Republicans briefed on the conversation.
posted by Coventry at 10:39 AM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


'Well, what would you do?' Do you stay calm, keep smiling and carry on as if he weren't repeatedly invading your space? Or do you turn, look him in the eye and say loudly and clearly, 'Back up, you creep. Get away from me.

It breaks my heart that one of the most powerful women in the world knows and can articulate this position and choice so clearly. Yes, all women.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:43 AM on August 23, 2017 [110 favorites]


Trump wanted McConnell to ‘protect him’ from Russia scandal probe

Cuz nothing sells "Russia is Fake News!" better than repeatedly acting guilty as hell.
posted by chris24 at 10:44 AM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


Hillary really deserved to title her new book "Fuck All Y'all Haters". Because, well, you know.

Perhaps. I'd have gone with Gore Vidal's four sweetest words in the English language: "I told you so".
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:45 AM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


Perry, DeVos, Chao, Mattis, Tillerson, Acosta, Shulkin + Pence.

That'd be enough for an invocation of the 25th, no?
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:46 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not sure how to frame this article, other than by calling the actions of the NYPD and USSS disgusting. First person account of how protestors are being treated, and their 1st and 4th Amendment rights are being shredded.

WaPo: I was detained for protesting Trump. Here’s what the Secret Service asked me.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 10:47 AM on August 23, 2017 [41 favorites]


Perhaps. I'd have gone with Gore Vidal's four sweetest words in the English language: "I told you so".

(Pretty much) taken.
posted by Rykey at 10:49 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


That'd be enough for an invocation of the 25th, no?

There are 15 departments, so you'd need eight people plus Pence.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:50 AM on August 23, 2017


Trump wanted McConnell to ‘protect him’ from Russia scandal probe

Cuz nothing sells "Russia is Fake News!" better than repeatedly acting guilty as hell.


And along those lines, from last night. "Consumed" is interesting...

@jmartNYT
GOP senator calls just now, sez Trump consumed w RUSSIA

Also: Trump must sell tax reform

"His vocabulary on healthcare was bout 10 words"
posted by chris24 at 10:51 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


Perhaps. I'd have gone with Gore Vidal's four sweetest words in the English language: "I told you so".

(Pretty much) taken.


Clinton stealing Rush's title for her own book though given all the shit he has given her over the year has a certain charm to me that she's too classy to actually do.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:51 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


A few comment responses:

1. JFC could someone please ascertain if the report of a PHX protestor death is inaccurate.

2. First person account of how protestors are being treated, and their 1st and 4th Amendment rights are being shredded.

Remember the 1st-hand reports of people being swept up in the streets of NY and held overnight, was it during an RNC convention or just a routine anti-war/dumbya protest?

(Don't wanna rehash the Tina Fey bit last week, but BOY was she right in calling out the difference between how righty protestors are treated and everyone else.)

3. I sometimes feel that HRC had to appear so calm/ "unemotional," even though she was against the most piggy dickhead of all time. And she did do all the right things, bringing out the "Not a Puppet" stuff. Yet I kind of wish now, she had stopped at a moment like that described above and said, "Da fuq, dude, sit down."

(Also, as someone who's spent my life anticipating the negatives that'll come from others, I can tell you the trumplicans are prolly already screaming about the Hillary quote: "But BILLCLINTON...")

4. New Quinnipiac poll - Trump's approval is at 35. 35!

Ah, if you're still talking to tRumpies, there's a question: Are you still one of the 35 for 45?
posted by NorthernLite at 10:57 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


There are 15 departments, so you'd need eight people plus Pence.

Per Wikipedia, Elaine Duke is Acting Secretary of DHS (and I see nothing to contradict this on the DHS website), so I presume a majority would be seven?

Anyway, I'd love to see the more establishment / party loyalist Cabinet members sit down for a little coffee somewhere off the beaten path....
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:00 AM on August 23, 2017


My money is on Lindsey Graham or Rand Paul being the Leaky Senators. Less likely but not impossible: Heller, Hatch, Burr.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:02 AM on August 23, 2017


Boy, I sure hope you are not another white straight cis male able-bodied person telling the rest of us how to feel.

I read LooseFilter's comment as being addressed at the righty reactionary fear-driven folks embracing exclusionary politics, not at us fighting back against their awful.
posted by phearlez at 11:05 AM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


but in looking at responses to a James Woods tweet about Antifa

James Woods was here in North Carolina filming a movie or tv show about twenty years ago or so. They were filming a court scene, so they had to wait until court for the day ended before they could shoot. It was a very light day for court, so at a certain point the judge decided that she would move the last few matters back into chambers so that the filming could begin.

So she is conducting a hearing in chambers, and suddenly James Woods pops into the room and tells her to keep it down because they are trying to film. She was a new judge at the time. To this day, she regrets not holding him in contempt of court and jailing him.
posted by flarbuse at 11:05 AM on August 23, 2017 [71 favorites]


JFC could someone please ascertain if the report of a PHX protestor death is inaccurate.

So far the only (recent) occurrence of the name "Charles Willows" on twitter links to the unsourced story on the shady todaysfive.com site, so I'm treating it as completely bogus pending more reputable sources.
posted by Roommate at 11:06 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can't see the 25th being invoked unless Pence & Co. are confident they have the votes in both the House and the Senate.

While this is likely true, in the event of an invocation, it would become extremely difficult for most members of Congress to argue that Trump should be reinstated, for the following reasons:
1) Acting President Pence and a majority of the Cabinet would be providing a detailed argument that Trump had become dangerously unfit for office.
2) Pence and a majority of the Cabinet would obviously be telling the truth, and much of the nation would agree with them. The proactive deed of voting to deny this truth and overrule the Acting President would be seen by many as a crime against the nation.
3) Opinions of President Trump in Congress range from thinking he is utterly ineffectual to despising him with the passion of ten-thousand suns.
4) Opinions of Acting President Pence in Congress would be far superior. They might even be far superior with Republican voters.
5) A deposed Trump would be unlikely to exude presidential nation-unifying grace and dignity. He would be on his very worst behavior.
6) Every congressperson would be aware of the possibility of a future impeachment based on felony charges. Why would they want to proactively reinstate the man only to see him be impeached later?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


In an open-ended question, allowing for any answers, 64 voters (not percent) say "strong" is the first word that comes to mind when they think of Trump. "Idiot" is the first word for 59 voters. Another 58 voters say "incompetent," as 50 say "liar" and 49 say "president."

I know we had a big discussion in another thread recently about the damage South Park has done culturally and what a lousy culture it generally represents, and I agree with all that. But when I come across questions like "what word comes to mind when you think of Trump" am truly grateful to the South Park movie for giving me the phrase "donkey-raping shit eater."
posted by nickmark at 11:09 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]



>"find ways to be more calm, reflective, other-centered, compassionate--you know, all the stuff that our best teachers have been telling us about ourselves for, oh, probably ever."

>"some of our biggest problems may actually be quite solvable (and others vastly mitigated)"

>"all those monoamine neurotransmitter hits are just so so sweet or ego gratification or that's-what-the-tee-vee-said or whatever, and it's going to be louder and worse. I would like to get off of this particular treadmill; we're better than this."

... I'd like to get off the treadmill too, but I don't think I have a choice. I'm bound to it. But you're welcome to step off. Indeed, you're better off than us, so take advantage of it, ally.


I interpreted this as "Let us not despair. Things are still fixable. Let us focus on fixing them instead of wallowing in outrage." With a note of, "We should beware that we don't become like the outrage-addicts on the right."

Focusing on solving or at least mitigating problems and being more other-centered and compassionate sounds like the opposite of "stay home and ignore the threat" to me.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:11 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sure, Trump could be 25th'd, but we'd still have to get his loony followers to go slither back under their rocks.
posted by jgirl at 11:13 AM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Also: Trump must sell tax reform

"It's gonna be great tax reform, really great"
posted by thelonius at 11:15 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


He just said he's going to put the terrorists on no-internet time-out. Trust me, I have a three year old and that shit is hard.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


a phone call that quickly devolved into a profane shouting match.

Can anyone imagine Mitch McConnell actually shouting?

Snappy, bitter, or scathing are things I can easily imagine. Swearing seems totally reasonable (I mean how can you not?). Maybe a raised voice. I'm not saying this to question his masculinity or anything, 'cause that sort of stuff is bullshit. Lots of men (and women) aren't really the shouting type. McConnell really strikes me as the sort.

So now I'm wondering if this is embellishment or if things are really that bad between the two.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:19 AM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can anyone imagine Mitch McConnell actually shouting?

His neck coming all the way out of his collar.
posted by Talez at 11:21 AM on August 23, 2017 [47 favorites]


Well, there's shouting and then there's shouting.
posted by jgirl at 11:21 AM on August 23, 2017


I agree that if Pence and Co. invoked the 25th, Congress would almost certainly go along. But something truly extraordinary (like a nuclear launch order or demand for troops to shoot down protestors) would be necessary for Pence to do that. To Trump supporters, a reliable 30% of the country, this would be a naked power grab. Do you think they'll just be like, "Ohh, well if Pence says so then I guess it's ok." Do you think Trump is just gonna go back to Mar-a-Lago and sulk quietly? How about all those white nationalists with guns? It's not just the political consequence of setting off a nuclear bomb inside the Republican Party, it's the very real possibility of igniting some kind of civil war.

The 25th Amendment is an elegant solution to a different problem. Sadly, the problem of mental instability has no solution because impeachment takes too long and the 25th amendment has horrible side effects.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:26 AM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


To Trump supporters, a reliable 30% of the country, this would be a naked power grab. Do you think they'll just be like, "Ohh, well if Pence says so then I guess it's ok."

For many people from that 30%, actually, yes. They would have voted for a President Pence over Clinton in a heartbeat. They are capable of being persuaded by Pence that something unfortunate has happened with this Trump guy, and that genuine evangelical Christian Pence is the man to finally deliver the promised American Greatness that Mr Trump seemed to be struggling with.

There will be a hardcore who will complain, loudly. Many of those people will regain their true identity as "Anti-Democrat" come election time.

And if Mueller delivers criminal charges, many will immediately say, "I knew he was a crook the whole time. These Washington politician types, you just can't trust them. Am I right?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:34 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Couldn't his Evangelical Advisory team find some way for Pence to word it that to normal people it sounds like illness or some sort of face-saving cop out in order to resign, but to a different population it dogwhistles 'demonic possession'. People really do believe in that, and if they're that gullible, they'll buy it coming from the VP.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:35 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm not sure how to frame this article, other than by calling the actions of the NYPD and USSS disgusting. First person account of how protestors are being treated, and their 1st and 4th Amendment rights are being shredded.

WaPo: I was detained for protesting Trump. Here’s what the Secret Service asked me.


Allowing a protestor with a sign(!) through the security cordon protecting the President is probably embarrassing to the Secret Service. Upsetting and problematic, but not all that surprising that they're reacting aggressively.

Protestors are allowed to gather outside of Trump tower, and the NYPD generally marks off areas with metal fencing so the flow of traffic isn't impeded. They've been reasonably good about accommodating crowds outside when they show up. The cops also close sections of 5th Ave or the surrounding streets as needed. Sometimes in advance. (I work two blocks from Trump tower and have experienced the pedestrian and vehicular traffic disruption firsthand for months. And have taken advantage of the streets being closed when I've joined the protests myself.) For the most part, the cops are polite but firm. They don't want trouble and don't involve themselves with the protestors except to tell us where we should stand, etc. Get in their faces or refuse to listen, though... you'll get a reaction. They don't have a lot of patience and aren't interested in negotiating. Or listening, really.

But that's outside. Inside the tower, they arrest people who cause a disturbance. Protestors have been arrested in multiple incidents for staging sit-ins in elevators or in the lobby, or from blocking the entrances. And often, that's happened when Trump's not even there.
posted by zarq at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Couldn't his Evangelical Advisory team find some way for Pence to word it that to normal people it sounds like illness or some sort of face-saving cop out in order to resign, but to a different population it dogwhistles 'demonic possession'. People really do believe in that, and if they're that gullible, they'll buy it coming from the VP.

"For such a time as this."
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


"By the power vested in me as Vice President, I am hereby exorcising my powers under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:38 AM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]




You guys, I just heard there's this thing called the 25th Amendment that maybe could be used to get rid of President Trump; has this ever come up on MeFi before? Maybe it needs to be discussed?
posted by yhbc at 11:42 AM on August 23, 2017 [39 favorites]


"By the power vested in me as Vice President, I am hereby exorcising my powers under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment"

"The power of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment compels you!"

(Not sure if typo, but terribly funny)
posted by Archelaus at 11:43 AM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


During the call, which Mr. Trump initiated on Aug. 9 from his New Jersey golf club, the president accused Mr. McConnell of bungling the health care issue. He was even more animated about what he intimated was the Senate leader’s refusal to protect him from investigations of Russian interference in the 2016 election, according to Republicans briefed on the conversation.

He's guilty. He knows he's guilty. That's been obvious, again, since the campaign ("No puppet. No puppet. you're the puppet.").

What's different now is that he feels the noose tightening.

It's gratifying to hear how much he seems to be suffering this feeling of being trapped because, well, pal, we're all right there along with you.
posted by Gelatin at 11:44 AM on August 23, 2017 [33 favorites]


What's different now is that he feels the noose tightening.

i fervently hope to see his family name become mud, his assets seized, his progeny shunned, and him spending the rest of life inside a prison cell

(and also, since i am wishing, i would like a pony that farts glitter and rainbows)
posted by entropicamericana at 11:49 AM on August 23, 2017 [30 favorites]


Your asinine ursine policy: Trump Team Blocks Criticism of Bill Allowing Hunters to Massacre Bear Cubs.

Reached for comment, the President snapped, "There was no collusion with Russia, okay? No one knows this yet, but it's huge news, not fake news, actual huge news: I've authorized our hunters to go out and shoot bears, okay? All kinds of bears. Big ones. Little ones. Even those little loser baby bears. Now, thanks to me, real, red-blooded White Americans can use their guns to shoot all the bears they want. And I tell ya, this is a win=win for us. It's gonna piss off the Russians because they love bears and it's gonna really piss off the liberals who hate guns, Nazis and Making America Great Again."
posted by zarq at 11:50 AM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


[This comment is not directed at Gelatin]

I am so conflicted about the Russia thing. I know he is guilty, and I want that to be proved by Mueller. But what that means causes me such existential dread that I am almost paralyzed by the notion. What it says about the GOP, this country, etc, is just too fucking much. I know it's true, but I don't want to know. It's like some massive bill sitting on my dining room table that I am pretending I don't have to pay if I don't open the envelope.
posted by OmieWise at 11:52 AM on August 23, 2017 [52 favorites]


i just poked my head over at fivethirtyeight and realized that

THE RACE IS ON: can trump manage to get his approval rating lower than gerald ford on the day he pardoned nixon? in 16 days we find out!

these trivialities keep me vaguely sane
posted by murphy slaw at 11:55 AM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]



Couldn't his Evangelical Advisory team find some way for Pence to word it that to normal people it sounds like illness or some sort of face-saving cop out in order to resign, but to a different population it dogwhistles 'demonic possession'. People really do believe in that, and if they're that gullible, they'll buy it coming from the VP.


OMG, please, please, please. I mean, as a uterus-having person, an atheist, a queer, and a human being, I am viscerally opposed to Mike "Gilead Now!" Pence having any more power than he already does, but gods, the lulz from that would be really sustaining. I could see getting a week or a week and a half's worth of evens back, if that happened.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 11:56 AM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


We must practice Radical Acceptance. The election of this man is by itself a crime against humanity, regardless of any collaboration with any tyrant, but it is in the past, and the past is by its nature indelible. The truth of our past must be understood, accepted, mitigated and counteracted so that the future may be not so dark.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:56 AM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's not just the political consequence of setting off a nuclear bomb inside the Republican Party, it's the very real possibility of igniting some kind of civil war.

I think if Republicans are seen to remove him and he is replaced by Republicans, there won't be a civil war. The more extreme "wait until Pelosi is speaker, then impeach Pence and Trump", however, I think would absolutely incite one.
posted by corb at 12:02 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]



I've been binge watching The Americans (only watched the first season before) for the past few days while sorting through literal boxes of my life that have been in storage for the past 4 years. It's been the most surreal of experiences. A lifetime of nostalgia, good and painful memories, with a back drop of Russian spies and US history interspersed with the current reality of internet US news breaks and keeping up with these threads.

Just got to the end of the season 3 and Reagan's, Evil Empire speech and my brain just broke because the thought crossed my mind as I was putting stuff on a shelf, 'Now this character sounds like an actual President too bad the real President doesn't...oh wait...that WAS a real actual President talking and holy hell that was Reagan and things are so not normal that my first instinct was that he sounded decent and I wished someone who sounded like him was President now'

Gah. So far from normal.
posted by Jalliah at 12:03 PM on August 23, 2017 [18 favorites]


That speach is also in Deutschland 83 and ha ha ha OMG Abel Archer would totally kill us all now.
posted by Artw at 12:05 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


You guys, I just heard there's this thing called the 25th Amendment that maybe could be used to get rid of President Trump; has this ever come up on MeFi before? Maybe it needs to be discussed?

Yeah, it does. This is the easiest way to quickly and legally bring an end to the dangerous Trump presidency. We have to start thinking specifics: who in the Cabinet is likely to support Pence; what the factions will be in Congress; how Democratic elected leaders & anti-fascist Americans can begin to put pressure on the right people.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:06 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


can trump manage to get his approval rating lower than gerald ford on the day he pardoned nixon

Trump's approval rating has never been that high. Ford entered office with 71% approval, his approval rating dropped to 50% overnight when he pardoned Nixon.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 12:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yeah, it does.

We desperately need a sarcasm emoji.
posted by zarq at 12:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


That National Park Service legislation looks pretty awful, and not just the "let hunters kill baby bears" piece of it. This bit here is a big problem: It also would be prevented from regulating commercial and recreational fishing within park boundaries and from commenting on development projects outside park boundaries that could affect the parks.

Federal agencies are always allowed to comment on development that might affect the property they manage, just as other landowners do. In fact, they have more responsibility to do so, because the land they manage belongs to the people of the United States, not some random homeowner.

This is just bullshit because although the public loves the National Parks, the GOP hates the environment and loves the NRA. So they want to allow heavy development and toxic wastes to be generated right up to the borders of every park, out of spite, I guess.
posted by suelac at 12:10 PM on August 23, 2017 [45 favorites]


We have to start thinking specifics: who in the Cabinet is likely to support Pence; what the factions will be in Congress; how Democratic elected leaders & anti-fascist Americans can begin to put pressure on the right people.

look, fantasy football season will be here soon enough
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:11 PM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


But truly, if we can't calm the fuck down, notice that the world is not in fact immediately on fire,

Your world may not be on fire, but let me tell you, my neighborhood is full of: (1) Low-income families; (2) Immigrant families, many with DACA-eligible children; (3) Muslim families; (4) Orthodox Jewish families; (5) POC of every extraction. Let me tell you: For a lot of these folks, shit, absolutely, is on fire. People are scared. Children are starkly terrified. And the teachers and direct service workers who normally are able to provide facts and resources to help families navigate the system and protect themselves are, in many cases, unable to give people concrete answers now.

I mean, yes, my personal world is still more-or-less temperate. But that's not true for everyone. Not. At. All.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 12:11 PM on August 23, 2017 [106 favorites]


oh right, i'm reading the graphs wrong, because ford's term didn't start on january 20th.

ford didn't go as low as trump until he was well into WIN buttons and other such haplessness

bah.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:12 PM on August 23, 2017


> We must practice Radical Acceptance.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't begrudge anyone who chooses otherwise, but I am very careful to always write "President Trump" when I'm talking about President Trump because I feel like I'm lying to myself if I don't.

He is the President. Enough people voted for him that he became President according to the law of the land. It's truly wretched. But it happened, and I have to accept it and try to make sure it doesn't happen the next time around to the best of my own ability.
posted by Tevin at 12:13 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


I think if Republicans are seen to remove him and he is replaced by Republicans, there won't be a civil war. The more extreme "wait until Pelosi is speaker, then impeach Pence and Trump", however, I think would absolutely incite one.

In my opinion the Congress should do the proper thing without regard to whether ignorant racist dead-enders will freak out. If that means having Pence replace Trump, that should happen. If it means Pelosi should replace Trump and Pence, then they should do that.

Not doing the right thing because of racist assholes is how we got slavery expanding until the 1860s and then a bloody civil war. Assholes gonna asshole.
posted by Justinian at 12:18 PM on August 23, 2017 [42 favorites]


Your world may not be on fire, but let me tell you, my neighborhood is full of: (1) Low-income families; (2) Immigrant families, many with DACA-eligible children; (3) Muslim families; (4) Orthodox Jewish families; (5) POC of every extraction. Let me tell you: For a lot of these folks, shit, absolutely, is on fire. People are scared. Children are starkly terrified. And the teachers and direct service workers who normally are able to provide facts and resources to help families navigate the system and protect themselves are, in many cases, unable to give people concrete answers now.

Thank you.

Over 37% of the people living in my city were born in another country. There are over 3 million New Yorkers who are foreign-born.

The largest cities in the United States are New York (8.5 million people), Los Angeles (4 million people) and Chicago (2.7 million people). New York's immigrant population is larger than the entire population of Chicago. We have more immigrants than the entire combined populations of Houston and Boston. Than everyone in Dallas and Philadelphia.

Let that sink in a moment.

They are our friends and neighbors. The owners of our local businesses. Etc.

My kid came home from school last year terrified that one of her best friends was going to be deported. The chancellor of the NYC school system had to issue a statement telling parents that they and their children could come to our public schools and the teachers and faculty wouldn't try to report / deport them.

As many as 800 languages are spoken in New York, making it the most linguistically diverse city in the world. My borough, Queens is the most diverse county in terms of immigrants in the world.

And the fucking President is defending actual Nazis on tv. Gotta tell you, it feels great to be a Jew in America at the moment.

The world is in fact immediately on fire.
posted by zarq at 12:22 PM on August 23, 2017 [157 favorites]


Clinton stealing Rush's title for her own book though given all the shit he has given her over the year has a certain charm to me

Maybe so.

From where I sit there's not a lot wrong with "Back Up, You Creep".
posted by flabdablet at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


30% of Americans are batshit assholes who support Trump. That 30% is by no means the same number of Americans who would turn out with guns to fight for him. And it's not like their numbers are growing. They're doing the opposite.

Look at how many white supremacist rallies were cancelled after Boston. One side of that equation is far more gun-happy than the other, but they still looked at the numeric difference and noped out of other events all across the country.

Throw in the rule of law behind that in the form of charges recommended by Mueller or enough support from Trump's own party and cabinet to invoke the 25th and their narrative will turn toward "Damn, it was fun while it lasted, stupid liberals."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:26 PM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


You don't have to be a Muslim to be alarmed that America elected a president who proposed banning all Muslims from America. I imagine that, for American Muslims, it is not a good experience.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2017 [50 favorites]


You don't have to be an African-American to be alarmed that America elected a president who claimed that the first black president was part of a global conspiracy to conceal his true birthplace in Africa. I imagine that, for African-Americans, it is not a good experience.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:29 PM on August 23, 2017 [43 favorites]


If you're a greencard holder you can watch that shit and know your greencard is effectively worthless in the face of arbitrary and capricious decision making, and I tell you that is no fun.
posted by Artw at 12:29 PM on August 23, 2017 [27 favorites]


look, fantasy football season will be here soon enough

On an actual football antifa rerail: Today I discovered FC St. Pauli [Vice], a progressive punk (immigrant supporting) footballing team from Germany. Their flag is a skull and crossbones.

Also there is a Glasgow chapter of their fan club [more Vice]. Their motto is 'NAE FITBAW FOR FASCISTS'. Their logo is the aforementioned skull and crossbones with a traffic cone on its head. Not sure I've ever wanted a t-shirt so much.

Solidarity through diversity and all that.
posted by Buntix at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


>We have to start thinking specifics: who in the Cabinet is likely to support Pence; what the factions will be in Congress; how Democratic elected leaders & anti-fascist Americans can begin to put pressure on the right people.

look, fantasy football season will be here soon enough


If we don't start talking about it, it will never happen. Half the people already want Trump impeached, which is far less likely to occur than this remedy. Once the ball is rolling; once Congress has to decide on either Trump or Pence, I think they will decide on Pence.

It's not like Trump is likely to act more sane or presidential in the hours and days after his VP and half his Cabinet formally declare him unfit for office. I think he'll make that decision very easy for Republican congresspersons.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm old enough to remember the president openly threatening to nuke North Korea and the only thing that broke him from that cycle was a racist rally where people were beaten and a woman was murdered by a white supremacist. And that same president managed to completely fuck up that opportunity to look even marginally human, too.

Shit is most seriously on fire.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:34 PM on August 23, 2017 [89 favorites]


They just had to close the campus of Brandeis University because of emailed threats. An entire college campus. Yeah. So tell me again now how the world isn't on fire.
posted by holborne at 12:36 PM on August 23, 2017 [29 favorites]


You guys, I just heard there's this thing called the 25th Amendment...

Yeah, it does. This is the easiest way to quickly and legally bring an end to the dangerous Trump presidency


This is fantasy. The 25th Amendment procedure requires a 2/3rds majority of both the House and Senate, as well as a majority of the cabinet.

Do you know what you can do with a simple majority in the House and a 2/3rds majority in the Senate, with zero cabinet support? Impeachment and removal from office! Pick one of the literal dozens of impeachable offenses Trump has committed and run with it.

Not to mention, the 25th Amendment was written for the case where the President was a vegetable in a hospital bed. Trump is clearly mentally compromised, but no more so than when he was elected. Impeachment is the proper procedure for removal.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:40 PM on August 23, 2017 [18 favorites]


They just had to close the campus of Brandeis University

The Jewish university campus, I might add.
posted by Melismata at 12:42 PM on August 23, 2017 [18 favorites]


Before he was winning attaboys from prominent members of the GOP, Michael ran with a vicious black-supremacist cult. In the early '90s, Michael and 15 other members of the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult were charged with conspiring in two murders

IIRC, Yahweh Ben Yahweh had an entry in Donna Kossy's Kooks, a seminal survey of America's psychoceramic landscape circa the 1990s. I believe they were mentioned a few entries after the (relatively sane) Nation Of Islam, next to something called the “Nubian Islamic Hebrew Mission”.
posted by acb at 12:45 PM on August 23, 2017


Where are we getting this 30% number?!?!? Only about half of the US population voted in the 2016 presidential election. Less than half of that number voted for Donald Trump. His supporters have been dwindling ever since.

So let's cut that 30% down to about 15-18%, and remember that they're very loud and enjoy exaggerating/lying about their crowd sizes.


When we are talking about the decision making of the Republicans in Congress the number is 30% because those non-voters may as well not exist. They are less than the gravel stuck in the tires of their limos because their opinions of Trump or anyone else means jack and shit to whether those congresscritters will be re-elected and whether their party will keep power and therefore they keep their plum committee seats.

Flowers could die as Trump walks past them and it's not gonna matter one little bit because they don't vote. If crossing Trump will shave off the number of points a congressperson needs to win re-election they're not gonna cross him.
posted by phearlez at 12:46 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


We desperately need a sarcasm emoji.

An alternative would be to simply say what we mean.
posted by thelonius at 12:46 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


Oh brother, does Phil Rucker WANT to be the world's punching bag?
@PhilipRucker -- Last night, Trump was all personal grievances and wounds. Today, he's all government reforms and legislation.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:48 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


I just don't think the 25th Amendment, which was never meant to be used for this purpose and most Americans don't even know exists, is a very good mechanism for going from a mentally unstable President to an illegitimate one in the middle of rising violence, conflict, and national disunity.

This is what impeachment is for. And since we need to same votes for impeachment as we do the 25th Amendment (less in the House, right?) impeachment is the better process. Trump has been ripping up norms since he entered the political scene. Do you want to live in a world where the norm on 25th Amendments has been broken? Where a popular VP and pliant cabinet can jam Congress with a Me or Him vote to oust a legitimately elected President because of... reasons? I don't. Trump has to go, but doing it this way is bad.

It also would be a "corrupt back room deal" in the eyes of many many Trump people. Whether it's 10%, 20%, or 30% of the population, does it matter? If 10% of the population rightfully thinks the Presidency was stolen from them, and Trump is tweeting and ginning up violence all of the country (you know he will), 10% will be more than enough. And these people already think that everyone is out to get them. That's their unifying impulse. 10% of the population is 30,000,000 people. And these are 30M people with militias and weapons. Whether they openly attack the new President and government, or just randomly spread violence in the name of their master, do we want them loose?

To get enough of those people sufficiently calm will require time and an open deliberative investigation. An impeachment. All the evidence gets presented. Reliable witnesses speak. People they trust, Republicans, and other conservatives, go on the record saying how sad and necessary this is. Then the House Impeaches. Then they do it all over again in the Senate. Months of inquiry and debate. All to give legitimacy to the process.

At the end of long impeachment proceeding Trump will be spent. He will be ready to leave and hoping to avoid jail. He will have already rage tweeted everything he had to say and anyone with influence will have already abandoned him. If he gets 25th-ed there will be hell to pay. And all of us will regret it.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:51 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]



If you're a greencard holder you can watch that shit and know your greencard is effectively worthless in the face of arbitrary and capricious decision making, and I tell you that is no fun.


I have cousins in the US who both have greencards. Haven't seen them in 6 years. They were planning a trip back home this summer. They cancelled because even though he has a really good job in tech, a kid who is a citizen and both are white they just didn't want to take a chance. He said that even though he knows that they'd likely be fine because of their privilege he just felt he would be worried the whole time. At least one of his friends also white took a holiday back in Canada and got hassled coming back because of his social media. They let him back in with a BS warning. He's been living and working in the US for almost 20 years.

As you say it's the arbitrary nature of the stories that people are hearing. He said that most people he works with feel it with POC feeling it most. He and others who up until this year had no desire to leave are thinking about back-up plans because of the uncertainity. Several of his work collegues are planning on leaving anyways because they don't feel secure anymore. These are all highly experienced professional tech people so they'll be fine in terms of securing jobs elsewhere but the company isn't happy of course.
posted by Jalliah at 12:53 PM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]


Trump is scatterbrained showman, or crazy like a fox, or a lot of both, but here is where it hurts. He speaks in disconnected bits, most people do not have the attention span to process more than bits, so he rattles out a shit storm of questionable facts, full of feeling. People who are picking up bits and pieces feel connected to, and are tweeting out their approval, or their assessments. The job is done, he could be reading a state fair menu of delights, and the pork fans would be tweeting about pork, and cotton candy fans would be tweeting about the sweetness of the man. Horrible, horrible thing. While he has them in thrall, he controls the message about what is happening outside, and old henchmen of Arapaio, incite the crowd, fire rubber bullets, throw tear gas, hoping for some large response to create a history of violence in the protest movement. This is dreadfully old school, actually.

So while we are the chickens pecking away at the aftermath, looking for tasty bits, the job has been done. The Democratic mayor of Phoenix has appeared to try and violate 45's right to free speech, the Senators have not appeared, not endorsed, and the shadow clan has set the police up to foment riots. Tsk, tsk. Then the media plays it both ways, they who like the cotton candy, read; they who have been shrieking for months over the dismantling of our civilization, and I mean our nation, read. The civil war is on. Again, I wish I hadn't read The Penultimate Truth, last year, Dick was prescient.
posted by Oyéah at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


if the remaining adults in the GOP whose skulls aren't full of worm poop and shrieking confederate ghosts decide they have to close ranks and remove Trump from office, they aren't gonna 25th amend that shit. they'll get some big tall manly general with big powerful hands and lots of shinies on his uniform to sit him down and tell him that For The Good Of The Nation etc and promise him he'll be pardoned if Mueller brings the hammer down and he can keep his golden toilets and enjoy a happy retirement holding rallies and working dumbshit racists up into a froth any time he wants.

and if they pull off the theatrics correctly, because theatrics is all this stupid motherfucker knows, it'll zap that part of his brain where he stores the memory of Fred Trump telling him he's a loser and he's going to military academy so they can shape him up, and he'll say yes sir to the big strong general man and go give some deranged nonsense speech on TV about how he can do a better job making America great again outside the broken Washington political machine and then he'll bounce off to Mar-a-Lago and tweet about how he accomplished more in the ?? days of his presidency than anybody else did in two full terms, etc etc

anyway that's my Trump removal from office fanfic, please like and subscribe
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2017 [61 favorites]


Do you know what you can do with a simple majority in the House and a 2/3rds majority in the Senate, with zero cabinet support? Impeachment and removal from office! Pick one of the literal dozens of impeachable offenses Trump has committed and run with it.

The question is who starts the process. The House leadership has made it abundantly clear that they will not start an impeachment process, probably unless a majority of the GOP caucus affirmatively calls for it, which won't happen because primarying from the right.

But the 25th forces their hand -- they either have to vote him out (and Dems will be able to get much of the way there) or they have to pocket-veto (basically) the invocation from the Cabinet. Same in the Senate. And in the meantime, Pence is Acting President, as opposed to Trump being President during his impeachment, which God only knows what he would do.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2017


That's a fair point. And probably separate from the point I'm trying to make, which is a thing that helps me get out of bed every morning: these people are not in the majority.

If Republicans thought they really had a majority of Americans as their supporters, they wouldn't try so hard to suppress people's ability to vote. QED.

Democrats should keep telling the media that Republican gerrymandering, voter suppression, constant flow of lies, dependence on fake news, etc., proves that they know their policies aren't really popular. "If $REPUBLICAN_POLICY was such a great idea, they wouldn't have to lie about it" should lead off every Democratic comment the way McConnell always says "job-killing" before "regulation."
posted by Gelatin at 12:56 PM on August 23, 2017 [32 favorites]


The current cover of German news magazine Stern.
posted by Justinian at 12:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [76 favorites]


That's somethin'.
posted by mazola at 12:59 PM on August 23, 2017


Holy moley.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:02 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you're a greencard holder you can watch that shit and know your greencard is effectively worthless in the face of arbitrary and capricious decision making, and I tell you that is no fun.

As I keep urging my green-card colleague: N-400 before they change the rules, dude.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:05 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


It also would be a "corrupt back room deal" in the eyes of many many Trump people. Whether it's 10%, 20%, or 30% of the population, does it matter? If 10% of the population rightfully thinks the Presidency was stolen from them, and Trump is tweeting and ginning up violence all of the country (you know he will), 10% will be more than enough. And these people already think that everyone is out to get them. That's their unifying impulse. 10% of the population is 30,000,000 people. And these are 30M people with militias and weapons. Whether they openly attack the new President and government, or just randomly spread violence in the name of their master, do we want them loose?

To get enough of those people sufficiently calm will require time and an open deliberative investigation. An impeachment. All the evidence gets presented. Reliable witnesses speak. People they trust, Republicans, and other conservatives, go on the record saying how sad and necessary this is. Then the House Impeaches. Then they do it all over again in the Senate. Months of inquiry and debate. All to give legitimacy to the process.


Trump's supporters will assume there is a conspiracy or an injustice has happened if he is removed. No matter the circumstances. These are people who are not swayed by actual facts. They have been conditioned to believe lies over evidence.

They don't give a shit about legitimacy. They're unmoved by the President smearing his political opponents, his allies, the media, people serving in the military and those who died defending our country -- and their families, and pretty much anyone else whom he thinks wronged him at any given moment. They don't care if the President likes Nazis, hates Muslims or says ugly, racist things about minorities. They don't care if he's a sexist molester of women. They don't care if he's happy when people get curbstomped or shot to death. They don't even care that he's trying to take their health care away. They support him to death because they think politics is sports and a Win for their Team is all that Matters.

At some point we need to stop being afraid of what those people will do if their precious whiny snowflake gets his ass thrown out of office and announce without shame that they can learn to live in a civilization in peace with all of their neighbors or they can go to hell. This ain't Nazi Germany. It's not Fascist Italy. We will not be intimidated by them into accepting life under their corrupt Little Hands Schmuckleroy.

They don't own this country, we outnumber them and we do not need to hold their fucking hands. We don't need to buy them an ice cream cone to make them feel better about this. They voted for him and they can come to terms with that on their own time.
posted by zarq at 1:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [112 favorites]


The current cover of German news magazine Stern.

What about the cross? The saying is "wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:12 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


They're unmoved by the President smearing his political opponents, his allies, the media, people serving in the military and those who died defending our country -- and their families, and pretty much anyone else whom he thinks wronged him at any given moment. They don't care if the President likes Nazis, hates Muslims or says ugly, racist things about minorities. They don't care if he's a sexist molester of women. They don't care if he's happy when people get curbstomped or shot to death. They don't even care that he's trying to take their health care away. They support him to death because they think politics is sports and a Win for their Team is all that Matters.

Because Trump does the one thing that really matters to them; he "pisses off liberals." The depravity of the Republican Party is such that many of those who call themselves conservatives simply oppose whatever they perceive liberals as being against (and note that that observation is seven years old!) -- so if we're for decency and democracy and against Nazis, well, here we are.
posted by Gelatin at 1:13 PM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]


He's guilty. He knows he's guilty. That's been obvious, again, since the campaign ("No puppet. No puppet. you're the puppet.").

What's different now is that he feels the noose tightening.


Tony Schwartz, the guy who ghostwrote Trump's first book & now regrets it, says Trump is terrified of prison & would likely roll over if he saw there was no other way to avoid it. His guess is that'll come before the end of the year.
posted by scalefree at 1:14 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


The current cover of German news magazine Stern.

Could someone translate the bit below Sein Kampf? Translate is not working well for me.
posted by Jalliah at 1:14 PM on August 23, 2017


Protestors have been arrested in multiple incidents for staging sit-ins in elevators or in the lobby, or from blocking the entrances. And often, that's happened when Trump's not even there.

But aren't these arrests blatant 1st and 4th amendment violations? What's the compelling state interest justifying the infringement? Are banners a national security threat?
posted by Coventry at 1:15 PM on August 23, 2017


The "hilarious" part of things like the Stern cover, and I'm sure Bannon (and thus Trump) knows this, is that it just proves everybody's gonna let the Nazi do his thing this time, too. As long as they're just cartoons, Trump can ignore it all.
posted by rhizome at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Could someone translate the bit below Sein Kampf?

Neonazis, the KKK, racism: how Donald Trump stokes (?) hatred in America
posted by Vibrissa at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


Could someone translate the bit below Sein Kampf? Translate is not working well for me.


"How Donald Trump fueled hate in America," I believe.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:17 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


What's the compelling state interest justifying the infringement?

That it's Trump Tower and Trump is the President of the US.
posted by rhizome at 1:19 PM on August 23, 2017


Could someone translate the bit below Sein Kampf? Translate is not working well for me.

It says "Neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, Racism: How Donald Trump is stirring up hate in America."
posted by holborne at 1:19 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


> They don't own this country, we outnumber them and we do not need to hold their fucking hands. We don't need to buy them an ice cream cone to make them feel better about this. They voted for him and they can come to terms with that on their own time.

I'm mostly in agreement here, but while we do outnumber the 30% or whatever of dead-enders, we don't necessarily outnumber them when they join up with so-called "moderate" Republicans and so-called "independents" who can't stomach voting for a dirty liberal -- at least when the fuckery of the Electoral College is involved. We saw this during the election (standard caveat about Comey / Russia / the shitty media goes here.)

The question then becomes: does pursuing "25th Amendment Remedies" to Trump turn off any of this mushy middle of people in ways that impeachment doesn't? Presumably, there are some in this group for whom impeachment is seen as the legitimate way of dealing with Trump, but this 25th Amendment business will be seen as "weird." Whether it's so "weird" that they'll worry about it or not seems like an open question. It reminds me of the 'trillion dollar coin" thing to avoid a government shutdown a few years ago. It was a pretty straightforward move that was legal by the letter of the law, just as removing Trump with the 25th Amendment is, but when it's described, it doesn't exactly seem like the spirit of the law as it was intended.

Sadly, a lot of people in that mushy middle aren't invested enough in policy outcomes, and care more about the appearance of things working properly. I support any effective measure to remove Trump from office as soon as possible, but this 25th Amendment thing does seem like the kind of thing that view-from-nowhere independent types would love to use as an excuse to complain about getting rid of Trump. And when they team up with the MAGAhats, we don't outnumber them by enough to create the public support required to persuade legislators to pull the trigger.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:20 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's been mentioned many times above but it bears repeating. A lot of people are reacting to Trump in the same way people react to an abusive spouse/relative. Invoking the 25th, or imagining how to get Trump to resign gracefully is, IMO, still enabling him and his voters. Impeachment is the way to go, not only because Trump needs to be impeached, but also because his base needs to know that it is not OK to be a racist, misogynist, corrupt, traitorous, vile, bigoted idiot. His base, and everyone else needs to know that the presidency requires competence, knowledge, empathy and skills at a very high level. His election was a debasement of democracy, and his electorate need to be told. The world outside the US needs to be told that the USA will not tolerate such a blatant corruption of American values. There's a big job in making Americans who voted for Trump and still think this is all fund and games realize how serious this is.
posted by mumimor at 1:21 PM on August 23, 2017 [67 favorites]


At some point we need to stop being afraid of what those people will do if their precious whiny snowflake gets his ass thrown out of office and announce without shame that they can learn to live in a civilization in peace with all of their neighbors or they can go to hell. This ain't Nazi Germany. It's not Fascist Italy. We will not be intimidated by them into accepting life under their corrupt Little Hands Schmuckleroy.

They don't own this country, we outnumber them and we do not need to hold their fucking hands. We don't need to buy them an ice cream cone to make them feel better about this. They voted for him and they can come to terms with that on their own time.


Hear, hear! Zarq, I flagged your comment as excellent. The world is on fire, but fatalism isn't going to put it out. It's hoses and buckets time.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:22 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


conservatives simply oppose whatever they perceive liberals as being against

Aw, shit. If only that weren't a sentence you'd lost track of halfway through, and conservative logic were really that flawed. The whole world would be a socialist utopia!
posted by Sys Rq at 1:23 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


NYT, Wall Street Journal Editor Admonishes Reporters Over Trump Coverage
Gerard Baker, the editor in chief of The Wall Street Journal, has faced unease and frustration in his newsroom over his stewardship of the newspaper’s coverage of President Trump, which some journalists there say has lacked toughness and verve.

Some staff members expressed similar concerns on Wednesday after Mr. Baker, in a series of blunt late-night emails, criticized his staff over their coverage of Mr. Trump’s Tuesday rally in Phoenix, describing their reporting as overly opinionated.

“Sorry. This is commentary dressed up as news reporting,” Mr. Baker wrote at 12:01 a.m. on Wednesday morning to a group of Journal reporters and editors, in response to a draft of the rally article that was intended for the newspaper’s final edition.
...
The draft also described Mr. Trump’s Phoenix speech as “an off-script return to campaign form,” in which the president “pivoted away from remarks a day earlier in which he had solemnly called for unity.” That language does not appear in the article’s final version.
First the Trump interview transcript, now this. The WSJ newsroom is in open revolt and leaking to their rivals.

This is pretty funny, from WaPo: Why those Confederate soldier statues look a lot like their Union counterparts:
Many of the South’s Silent Sentinels turn out to be identical to the statues of Union soldiers that decorate hundreds of public spaces across the North. Identical, but for one detail: On the soldier’s belt buckle, the “U.S.” is replaced by a “C.S.” for “Confederate States.”

It turns out that a campaign in the late 19th century to memorialize the Civil War by erecting monuments was not only an attempt to honor Southern soldiers or white supremacy. It was also a remarkably successful bit of marketing sleight of hand in which New England monument companies sold the same statues to towns and citizens groups on both sides of the Civil War divide.
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 PM on August 23, 2017 [75 favorites]


it'll zap that part of his brain where he stores the memory of Fred Trump telling him he's a loser and he's going to military academy so they can shape him up

Oh my god, is THAT why he respects generals even when they're good? Is there an alternate timeline where someone just signs him up as an enlisted man in the Army and he's like, some kind of mediocre staff sergeant somewhere right now?
posted by corb at 1:27 PM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


An alternative would be to simply say what we mean.

You're so funny, thelonious! "Say what we mean!" I love it!
posted by Coventry at 1:29 PM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


It turns out that a campaign in the late 19th century to memorialize the Civil War by erecting monuments was not only an attempt to honor Southern soldiers or white supremacy. It was also a remarkably successful bit of marketing sleight of hand in which New England monument companies sold the same statues to towns and citizens groups on both sides of the Civil War divide.

turns out!
posted by entropicamericana at 1:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


Protestors have been arrested in multiple incidents for staging sit-ins in elevators or in the lobby, or from blocking the entrances. And often, that's happened when Trump's not even there.

But aren't these arrests blatant 1st and 4th amendment violations? What's the compelling state interest justifying the infringement? Are banners a national security threat?
Private property and trespass I think are still a thing. Service at a lunch counter is very different from blocking safe exit (elevators) from an office building where you don't have an office or any dealings with anyone in the building. Streets and parks where every citizen has a right to be are a different story.
posted by bilabial at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


That it's Trump Tower and Trump is the President of the US.

Gonna need to see some relevant case law before I buy this.
posted by Coventry at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


'Compromise. How about keep the statues, but change the plaques to "this jerk fought so that some people could own other people. He lost." '

- Jemaine Clement
posted by mbo at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [49 favorites]


Protestors have been arrested in multiple incidents for staging sit-ins in elevators or in the lobby, or from blocking the entrances. And often, that's happened when Trump's not even there.

But aren't these arrests blatant 1st and 4th amendment violations?


No, probably not, at least on the 1st. For 1st Am restrictions to pass muster they have to be content neutral and time and place dependent. If you'll forgive the sorta-self-link, this is something a lawyer friend wrote and we ran on We Love DC back in 2011 when some folks got themselves arrested for an even more benign-seeming activity - dancing in the Jefferson Memorial, a place even more open to the public than Trump Tower. As the person who commissioned and edited it I am certainly biased about its quality, but I think it talks in a very lucid way about how 1AM law actually functions when it comes to restrictions.
posted by phearlez at 1:32 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


Impeachment is the only sensible route. Invoking 25th with a President who's able to talk & contest it just pushes it back to Congress anyway, with 2/3 in both houses needed to uphold it. Impeachment only needs simple majority in the House to decide on charges & 2/3 in the Senate to vote on them. So there's no advantage to be gained in using 25, it just sets the bar higher on removing him from office.

Impeachment it is.
posted by scalefree at 1:36 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


Because Trump does the one thing that really matters to them; he "pisses off liberals."

Someone I used to think of as a friend has actually said this out loud. He's a highly educated white male and a lawyer. He consumes a steady diet of Fox News all day long. I've had long conversations with him about why I'm a democrat and my support of Hillary Clinton. I've talked about "entitlement reform" and "tax reform" with him and actually found some common ground. But then Trump won the election and now his political ideology is "Trump is awesome because he pisses liberals off." He knows Trump is detestable but Fox News tells him it's ok because the Dems are going to raise his taxes, take his guns and encourage his daughter to marry a muslim.
posted by photoslob at 1:39 PM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


i would like a pony that farts glitter

The thing about regular farts is, unless you're really unlucky, is they eventually go away.
posted by maxwelton at 1:39 PM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Half the people already want Trump impeached, which is far less likely to occur than this remedy.

I have no idea on what basis you could make such a claim, since impeachment has happened or almost happened in the recent past but the 25th has never been invoked. Sign me up with the side that says 25th amendment talk is pipe dream territory. I mean, when your plan hinges on Betsy DeVos selling out Trump, you are definitely smoking something better than what I get.
posted by spitbull at 1:42 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


Thanks, rhizome, phearlez and cjelli. I understand now.
posted by Coventry at 1:42 PM on August 23, 2017


What about the cross? The saying is 'wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross'

With Trump it's "covered in bronzer and stepping on his own dick."
posted by kirkaracha at 1:54 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


We should change the Confederate memorial plaques to say: "This jerk fought to destroy the nation that Washington and Jefferson built. He failed."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:56 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


We should change the Confederate memorial plaques to say: "This jerk fought to destroy the nation that Washington and Jefferson built. He failed."


Sounds like a job for Obvious Plant.
posted by tilde at 1:57 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm partial to "racist loser" myself but I suppose that's asking too much.
posted by Justinian at 1:57 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]




Moving statues to museums should be a perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial position - you're not destroying the statues, you're keeping them where they can be visible to people as a part of our history rather than relegating them to hidden black sites or whatever, but they're also not front and center in the public square.
posted by corb at 2:03 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


That assumes the reasons for keeping them aren't lies. These are Republicans we are talking about.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


"That thing belongs in a museum!" - Antifa Jones
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:05 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


...should be a perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial position.

Welp, that's the last nail in the coffin for that idea.
posted by Behemoth at 2:05 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


With Trump it's "covered in bronzer and stepping on his own dick."

that does rather go against the "tiny hands" meme
posted by mbo at 2:06 PM on August 23, 2017


Huh. It's not every day that an official GOP mouthpiece calls someone a race traitor in public. Or maybe it is every day now? It's so hard to tell anymore.
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on August 23, 2017 [39 favorites]


I'm all for putting them in museums, surrounded by the appropriate historical context of reconstruction, jim crow, segregation, et cetera. But then I friggin' love museums.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:07 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


The federal permit has been approved for the "Patriot Prayer" march in San Francisco this Saturday, albeit with firearms banned.

All the local politicians are trying to discourage people from going to Crissy Field to protest, telling people to go to rallies miles away instead. As of right now, it seems incredibly disorganized to me, with a bunch of ill-defined events scattered all over the place, which does not sound like a good situation at all, compared to the more coordinated plan that was in place in Boston.
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mod note: A few deleted, let's not go down the what-if-farts, have-you-ever-wondered, random chat trail.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:10 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


> All the local politicians are trying to discourage people from going to Crissy Field to protest, telling people to go to rallies miles away instead. As of right now, it seems incredibly disorganized to me, with a bunch of ill-defined events scattered all over the place, which does not sound like a good situation at all, compared to the more coordinated plan that was in place in Boston.

Something I'm hearing is that it's worthwhile to try to take up all the parking spaces in the Presidio that morning — a bunch of the alt-right creeps are planning on open-carrying, which is legal in national parks, including the Presidio, but is not legal in the rest of San Francisco. Alt-righters who have to walk with their guns from outside the Presidio could potentially be arrested by SFPD on the way in.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:15 PM on August 23, 2017 [22 favorites]


Moving statues to museums should be a perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial position - you're not destroying the statues, you're keeping them where they can be visible to people as a part of our history rather than relegating them to hidden black sites or whatever, but they're also not front and center in the public square.

The statues aren't about history, but were a key component in a campaign of hate and subjugation. Many were mass produced junk. Beyond maybe retaining a few to denote said campaign, there is little purpose to saving them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:15 PM on August 23, 2017 [34 favorites]


Moving statues to museums should be a perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial position - you're not destroying the statues

It wouldnt, you know, be the worst thing in the world if they got a little damaged in transit. I hereby nominate the company I used for my last cross country move.



Re: The fucking VA GOP's tweet was shameful but im almost more pissed they deleted it. Then again, another view:

@MuslimIQ: FYI - I respect that @VA_GOP removed their racist tweet and apologized
FYI - Confederate statues are also a racist mistake - remove them & apologize
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:16 PM on August 23, 2017 [60 favorites]


Confederate statues should be moved to museums. Museums with confederate statues should be required to rename themselves xxxx Museum of Traitors and Racists. Each confederate statue in the Museums of Traitors and Racists should include inscriptions or placards describing exactly what kind of traitor and/or racist is represented. Exhibit 1: Robert Edward Lee (January 19, 1807 – October 12, 1870) was an American traitor and racist who...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:19 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


'Compromise. How about keep the statues, but change the plaques to "this jerk fought so that some people could own other people. He lost." '

- Jemaine Clement


I second this, but the "plaque" should be one of those new-fangled LED lightboards with fully animated fonts, graphics, and special effects. This kebab shop's sign should serve as the archetype.

At the very least, the plaque should be twice as large as the statue and written in Comic Sans for maximum impact.
posted by prosopagnosia at 2:22 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


Maybe a slightly larger neighboring statue of Gumby holding a I'M WITH RACIST sign
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


As I keep urging my green-card colleague: N-400 before they change the rules, dude.

Or be prepared to leave, depending on your circumstances. As a more mobile person if I was on a green card here I'd rather leave than tie myself (and my finances) to the US forever, but I recognize thats kind of privileged.

That said, its a tough situation for people like my wife who don't have the flexibility we do: in order to naturalize, she would have to give up her home citizenship. She's not prepared to do that (for a variety of reasons, but one practical one is it removes our easiest option for leaving the US), so we're fine with leaving if necessary (and actually hoping to, depending on how well job stuff works out). For us it's fine, but for others like her who don't want to give up any chance/option of returning home there is no good answer.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2017


VA GOP retraction tweet in part: "Our previous tweets were interpreted in a way we never intended. "

Will no one ask them how exactly they expected "...has turned his back on his own family's heritage..." in re moving monuments to a museum? I'm genuinely curious to know how my InterpretatorTM malfunctioned so extraordinarily.
posted by Fezboy! at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yeah, there's something weird about putting a bunch of statues that were largely funded, installed, maintained, and still supported by white supremacists into museums. Their sole purpose is for glorifying the defense of slavery and permanently putting displays of white supremacy in places with large populations of the targets of white supremacy. Unless the context includes that, and makes sure that organizations like Daughters of the Confederacy get bold-all-caps-underlined-huge-letters special notice for being front and center in that ugliness in the most brutally honest terms, it's still not a good compromise.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Something I'm hearing is that it's worthwhile to try to take up all the parking spaces in the Presidio that morning — a bunch of the alt-right creeps are planning on open-carrying, which is legal in national parks, including the Presidio, but is not legal in the rest of San Francisco. Alt-righters who have to walk with their guns from outside the Presidio could potentially be arrested by SFPD on the way in.

Parking will be prohibited in all of Crissy field and much of the lower Presidio. They're only letting pedestrians in via the Marina Gate. See here for that and a very long list of items that will be prohibited.
posted by rtha at 2:32 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think they fit fine into a section talking about the Jim Crow and Civil Rights periods, as thats when the vast majority were created. The context absolutely should be clear that they were put up by the same people supporting lynchings, etc. If most people understand the history behind them, theyd have fewer defenders (straight-up white supremacists wont care because they wont think those people did anything wrong, of course).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:34 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Moving statues to museums should be a perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial position - you're not destroying the statues, you're keeping them where they can be visible to people as a part of our history rather than relegating them to hidden black sites or whatever, but they're also not front and center in the public square.

Given that they were manufactured cheaply and shoddily en masse, there's no more need to save each one than there would be to save each bakelite radio or Garfield touch-tone phone that rolled off the assembly lines. Save a few typical exemplars, and junk the rest.
posted by acb at 2:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [35 favorites]


> If most people understand the history behind them

Leaning so hard on on "but the history" rubs me the wrong way when the purpose of the statues was to alter peoples' remembrance of the history. (Not saying you're doing this specifically, but it's a sense I get from a lot of these "compromises.") Museums also have finite resources, which means the space these take up pushes something else out. Take pictures of the statues, then destroy them, then put up a small display talking about the Dunning School and the Lost Cause myth and all that -- then we learn about the history, and also the history of the attempts to change the history, without unduly glorifying traitors or completing W. A. Dunning's mission.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


Catblack: I don't live in Phoenix anymore, but what gets me is that with less than a week's notice the city has to foot the bill for all the cops suiting up in riot gear, blocking the freeways... all for a campaign stop rally of the faithful deplorables for an election impeachment trial that's 4 years many (?) months away. It's beyond absurd...

FTFY.

Alternatively, it's a rally to raise funds to bolster his legal battle war chest, ahead of the impending impeachment trial.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on August 23, 2017


So it turns out the MAGA hat teens were provokers. I'd call them racist scum, but they're 16, so I'll refrain from calling them racist scum.
posted by Yowser at 2:46 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


Statesman: U.S. judge tosses out Texas voter ID law
A federal judge Wednesday tossed out the Texas voter ID law, granting a permanent injunction barring Texas from enforcing the original 2011 law as well as a version with looser restrictions that was signed into law this summer.

U.S. District Judge Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos of Corpus Christi ruled that the law violates the Voting Rights Act and the U.S. Constitution.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said he will appeal the ruling.
Here's the court order.
posted by zachlipton at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2017 [56 favorites]


Press Secretary just put out a statement that basically confirms the NYT's reporting on the relationship between Trump and McConnell.

McConnell is experiencing that situation where he is 100% in support of the President and his agenda and is literally unwilling to talk to him. It happens to us all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


Given that they were manufactured cheaply and shoddily en masse, there's no more need to save each one than there would be to save each bakelite radio or Garfield touch-tone phone that rolled off the assembly lines. Save a few typical exemplars, and junk the rest.

I agree with this. If the statues are straight-up mass-produced junk - which they are, they're not Rodin sculptures or anything - save a couple, but destroy the rest. Dedicate more space in museums to de-glamorizing the Confederacy and showing what it really was - treason, in the service of slavery.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:59 PM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


I, however, fully support the preservation of this statue of NBF. In a museum, of course, since he was a racist asshole. But I propose we save only this statue as a representation of the entire South.
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Press Secretary just put out a statement that basically confirms the NYT's reporting on the relationship between Trump and McConnell.

Compare and contrast McConnell's statement and the White House statement. The White House defines their "shared priorities" as tax cuts, more military spending, and a border wall. McConnell defines their "shared goals" as tax and infrastructure, the debt ceiling, keeping the government open, keeping DOD funded, taking away people's health care, and taking better care of veterans.


The urgent stuff, like not defaulting on the national debt, is conspicuously absent from the White House statement.
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


all for a rally of the faithful deplorables for an impeachment trial that's many (?) months away. It's beyond absurd...

I've been thinking of the subgenre of stories like Up and The Straight Story; you know, ones in which an older man goes on a trip and has an adventure. In particular, that the near future's equivalent of these may well be in which a MAGA-hatted grandpa packs his stuff (old Windows laptop with a 3G dongle, a supply of heart medicine, Gadsden flag) into his beater car and treks across the country from Arizona or Wyoming or somewhere to Washington to join the angry mob protesting the impeachment/trial/persecution-by-liberal-globalists of their leader, Donald Trump.

Innocence can be lost numerous times; this would be one such loss.
posted by acb at 3:07 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]


I agree with this. If the statues are straight-up mass-produced junk

There is some kind of statement to be made with photoshop and framing the mass-produced statutes like the terracotta warriors from China. Just not sure what that statement is at the moment.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Press Secretary just put out a statement that basically confirms the NYT's reporting on the relationship between Trump and McConnell.

Trump has become the Ricky Spanish of U.S. Presidents.

Now all we need is for McConnell to slap him around a little on video, and my day will be made.
posted by darkstar at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Eight lines from Trump’s Arizona speech corrected by switching the words ‘media’ and ‘neo-Nazis’ (in its entirety)
Sometimes the only way to find a moment’s peace is to take refuge in a fantasy world of your own creation. President Trump certainly does, which is obvious every time he opens his mouth. My utopian fantasy is the world where, instead of directing his vitriol at the news media, the president of the United States used that time to take the relatively uncontroversial step of denouncing actual neo-Nazis. Join me in imagining this better world, where the following things he said Tuesday night in Arizona about the media were actually directed against appropriate targets.

1. It’s time to expose the [neo-Nazi] deceptions, and to challenge the [neo-Nazis] for their role in fomenting divisions.

2. We’re smart people. These are truly dishonest people.

3. But for the most part, honestly, these [neo-Nazis] are really, really dishonest people, and they’re bad people.

4. And I really think they don’t like our country. I really believe that.

5. And I don’t believe they’re going to change, and that’s why I do this. If they would change, I would never say it.

6. These [neo-Nazis] are sick people.

7. You would think — you would think they’d want to make our country great again, and I honestly believe they don’t. I honestly believe it.

8. If you want to discover the source of the division in our country, look no further than the [neo-Nazis] and the [white supremacists.]

9. [White supremacy] is terrible.

This is where we are, I guess.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:11 PM on August 23, 2017 [70 favorites]


Or be prepared to leave, depending on your circumstances. As a more mobile person if I was on a green card here I'd rather leave than tie myself (and my finances) to the US forever, but I recognize thats kind of privileged.

Yeah. Stuck between a half million dollar mortgage and a $7000 partner visa to get my wife into Australia is not fun. I spend a lot of days hoping that President Chucklefuck and co don't destroy the place too badly.
posted by Talez at 3:15 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


Alice Ollstein of TPM: ‘Regular Order’ Once Again Evades Paul Ryan As Shutdown Threat Looms
A staffer with the House Appropriations Committee confirmed to TPM on Wednesday that they plan to use a short-term continuing resolution (CR) to fund the government past the end of September and avoid a potentially embarrassing and destructive government shutdown. [...]

“Are we ever going to have regular appropriations again? Not anytime soon,” he told TPM. “Partisanship is too high. The era when Republicans and Democrats worked together is long gone. There is going to always have to be an omnibus or CR or some kind of package.”

Collender added that while he believes Congress will pass a short-term CR in September, he is not confident that President Trump will sign it, especially after his speech in Phoenix where he openly called for a government shutdown if funding for a Mexican border wall is not included.
We really need a clean CR or budget bill to pass before the end of September; however, such a plan would really ruffle the feathers of the anti-social elements of the Congress.After Boehner quit, all the whining about how Paul Ryan is the only one could unite Republican House Caucus has come to another CR. I hope it strips Ryan of any chance of winning a presidential election. The idea that the Jackass would veto such a bill would be funny if it weren't so stupidly dangerous.

Also, I loath Paul Ryan. The way he treated that Sister who asked him about why so many republicans seem to be against the poor and dispossessed in contravention to the teaching of their shared religion made my blood boil--the smug, patronizing tone, and bullshit appeal to 'prudential judgement' showed him to be one of the vacuous Catholics I've ever seen.

I'd rather eat dinner with Mitch McConnell than Paul Ryan.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]


“Partisanship is too high. The era when Republicans and Democrats worked together is long gone.

Golly gee, look at that. It just slipped away somehow. How'd that ever happen?
posted by Rykey at 3:51 PM on August 23, 2017 [65 favorites]


The statues aren't about history, but were a key component in a campaign of hate and subjugation. Many were mass produced junk.

History is an interesting thing. I think some people, with the best of intentions, have the idea that 'history' means 'learning about Important And Beautiful Things And People'. And that's all we should have museums for, to learn about things that were Big or Important or beautiful in and of themselves. And so the idea of preserving statues of the Confederacy is naturally upsetting, because if they're not beautiful, and the people weren't Important, then why keep them?

But for many people, the process of protecting history is about preserving things that tell us a lot, whether or not they're beautiful or Important. Utensils from everyday cooking from three hundred years ago. Shitty campaign banners from lesser known 1800s presidential campaigns. Diaries of average 'housewives' who talked about their children and cleaning. All of these things are history.

And statues of the Confederacy, especially ones placed in the 1910s-1920s, are really interesting historical relics that tell us a lot. They tell us about how WWI and depression-era-unity was bought at the cost of white-Southerner-reintegration, which had the effect of reinforcing anti-black laws. Many of the statues were paid for by Southern women's organizations, and there's fascinating stories there about the slow progress of the destruction of a class and the nostalgia for that class dominance - the dying hurrah of organizations staffed by those women who had little political power except in these ways. And, as the article posted above notes, many of these Southern statues were sold by Northern former munitions factories, and themselves in their own time caused a backlash against human-like war memorial statues.

Now, I will freely grant that as they stand, none of those statues do a damn thing to talk about that context - the stuff that's really interesting. And I'd wager that 90% of the people saying "no keep them" also don't give a crap. But that doesn't mean it couldn't and shouldn't be done well, in a way that isn't glorifying in the slightest.
posted by corb at 3:53 PM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


@dan_kammen
Mr. President, I am resigning as Science Envoy. [snip]
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on August 23 [78 favorites −]


Apologies as this was way upthread (I'm in the middle of a house move) but OMG I remember Prof. Kammen from an energy class in college! That makes him the first person I've actually met to resign from the administration! But wait, that sounds like an uncomfortably low number of degrees of separation between me and 45...

posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


“Partisanship is too high. The era when Republicans and Democrats worked together is long gone [thanks to the relentless, hateful, un-American, destructive dictates of my own party, the GOP].

FTFY,P
posted by petebest at 4:02 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd rather eat dinner with Mitch McConnell than Paul Ryan.

Ohhh and you were this close to getting a favorite.


Tiffany Trump's little vacation in Italy didn't get much exposure:

Daily Mail Tiffany Trump and mom Marla enjoyed free stay on friend's yacht and reduce-priced Roman hotel suite during Italian getaway - as taxpayers paid $100K on car rentals ALONE for First Daughter's trip
Official government records show three payments were made by the State Department to a car rental agency in Rome on July 18 totaling $117,489.44[...]Two days later Secret Service agents arrived in Portofino to meet Tiffany Trump as she disembarked from a two-week yacht trip on the Tyrrhenian Sea
So I'm a little confused here. The State Dept. paid for the car rentals in Rome and the USSS met her in Portofino. Does the State Dept. usually pay the bills for the Secret Service?

In other travel news: Lexington Herold Leader 'Freakishly well secured,' off-limits Fort Knox gold vault opens for politicians
Inside the famed vaults at Fort Knox, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell held a 27-pound gold bar in his hands Monday as part of the first civilian delegation to see most of the country's bullion reserves in more than 40 years.

But being surrounded by more than $186 billion worth of gold was no sweat for one of the country's most powerful politicians

"It's not even the annual funding level for some of our large departments in the federal government," he said.

McConnell was part of a delegation of Kentucky politicians allowed inside the United States Bullion Depository at Fort Knox for the first time since 1974. U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin initiated the visit, along with U.S. Rep. Brett Guthrie and Gov. Matt Bevin.
There is a lot of jokes on Twitter about Louise Linton playing with the gold but she is not mentioned in the story so I don't know for sure she was there.

Also on twitter, there's a story going around that the AZ GOP claimed they registered 2,800 people waiting in line to see DJT at the rally. According to this US News & World reporter the total attendance was probably closer to 5,000 instead of the 15,000 that DJT claimed. I find it very hard to believe that half of the people coming to see DJT were unregistered voters.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


o hai scoop o clock: CNN, Manu Raju and Marshall Cohen,: Exclusive: Top Trump aide's email draws new scrutiny in Russia inquiry
Congressional investigators have unearthed an email from a top Trump aide that referenced a previously unreported effort to arrange a meeting last year between Trump campaign officials and Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to sources with direct knowledge of the matter.

The aide, Rick Dearborn, who is now President Donald Trump's deputy chief of staff, sent a brief email to campaign officials last year relaying information about an individual who was seeking to connect top Trump officials with Putin, the sources said.

The person was only identified in the email as being from "WV," which one source said was a reference to West Virginia. It's unclear who the individual is, what he or she was seeking, or whether Dearborn even acted on the request. One source said that the individual was believed to have had political connections in West Virginia, but details about the request and who initiated it remain vague.

The same source said Dearborn in the email appeared skeptical of the requested meeting.

Sources said the email occurred in June 2016 around the time of the recently revealed Trump Tower meeting where Russians with Kremlin ties met with the president's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., his son-in-law Jared Kushner as well as then-campaign chairman, Paul Manafort.
posted by zachlipton at 4:12 PM on August 23, 2017 [35 favorites]


That Knox visit is actually kind of a big deal.... Also from that Ft. Knox article

Mnuchin told a group of Louisville business leaders earlier in the day it was important for him to see the gold to attest that "it is part of our national assets."

Fort Knox not actually containing any gold has been a belief of the lunatic fringe for quite some time - so of course Mnuchin also shared that belief. We seriously have the incarnation of "Fwd: FWD: fwd: FWD: TRUTH ABOUT FORT KNOX" in human-ish form as the secretary of the treasury.
posted by MysticMCJ at 4:24 PM on August 23, 2017 [59 favorites]


We seriously have the incarnation of "Fwd: FWD: fwd: FWD: TRUTH ABOUT FORT KNOX" in human-ish form as the secretary of the treasury.

How come Trump hasn't released all files from the chemtrail project yet?
posted by thelonius at 4:27 PM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


So, we can expect to see 70,000 sentences of 'but his emails' coverage in the New York Times now, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:29 PM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]


lalex I was making the exact same guess on twitter! Wild ass speculation but really that whole transaction was very fishy. By the way, this article says it was $550 million in 2009 with a buy back in 2015.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


>Would you mind providing a link to the piece reporting that Charles Willows was pronounced dead?
Sorry for posting this turd of fake news. Article cites no sources, but site is pretty awful linkbait for the most part. It's here. I noticed the headline when following the link to the Chris Cantrell article linked above.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 4:31 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm now seeing that everybody is speculating the same thing. I guess it was a pretty obvious speculation.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:35 PM on August 23, 2017


> But that doesn't mean it couldn't and shouldn't be done well, in a way that isn't glorifying in the slightest.

Statues, by their nature, glorify. Plaques, inscriptions, and such can contextualize the statue in such a way that undermines this glorification, but the association people have with statues is generally that we commission them and place them to recognize not just important people, but good people. The medium matters.

As I said above, the compromise here is simple. Photograph the statues, or, hell, do a 3D capture of them so people can view 360 degree renderings or whatever. Then you can tell the meta-story of how the statues came to be, who pushed for them, and why it matters. But taking up significant chunks of space in museums where people will look up in awe at them (and maybe notice the surrounding material that explains why they're not awesome) is not a compromise that we should accept.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:39 PM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


Nice timing. Marine One just landed on the WH front lawn. DJT is back to face the music.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Really scraping the bottom of the xenophobia barrel here: "Colo.deputy stops 13yo driver, finds 25lbs of suspected meth; immigration status unknown."

I don't know why I find this to be especially disgusting. Plenty of disgusting shit abounds. But the just TOTAL NOTHING from which this awful woman manages to gin up a racist, nativist human whistle is...

There is literally nothing there, in the original article. Nothing. Except a picture of a woman who does not read as white, and who has a non-aryan-sounding name.

It's not even a thin veil. It's a fucking wisp. I hate everyone and everything.
posted by prefpara at 4:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Here's some more info about that transaction from Mountain Messenger (unfamilliar)

Unless something has changed in the last few years, the Mountain Messenger is the local paper for Lewisburg, which is the town where Jim Justice lives. It's mostly a place for obituaries and high school football scores, but it makes sense that they would have something on Justice's business activities since he lives there and is a big deal in the area.
posted by Copronymus at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Paula White on Trump: "He is authentically - whether people like it or not - has been raised up by God." (via Twitter)
Paula White: "It is God who raises up a king ... When you fight against the plan of God, you are fighting against the hand of God." (via Twitter)

Are there evangelical Christians with national reach who have or could eviscerate this nonsense?
posted by spamandkimchi at 5:06 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


We seriously have the incarnation of "Fwd: FWD: fwd: FWD: TRUTH ABOUT FORT KNOX" in human-ish form as the secretary of the treasury.

It's occurred to me that we have the High Weirdness By Mail administration. We've woken up in a parallel universe where all the cranks and weirdos catalogued in HWBM are now our President, his cabinet, and for that matter, many members of Congress.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:07 PM on August 23, 2017 [24 favorites]



Paula White on Trump: "He is authentically - whether people like it or not - has been raised up by God." (via Twitter)
Paula White: "It is God who raises up a king ... When you fight against the plan of God, you are fighting against the hand of God." (via Twitter)


I really wish I knew whether people who say this really and truly heart of heart believe this. If they don't and are BSing their flock thats one thing. However if they do believe that God can raise a king how in all that is holy do they look at Trump and see 'Man who God raised.'

I can understand how people can belief that God, their God can do such a thing. I can comprehend that. I can't however comprehend a belief that Trump is THE GUY. How? Why?

It boggles. Truly and utterly boggles me.
posted by Jalliah at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


Post hoc rationalization is a hell of a drug.
posted by EarBucket at 5:18 PM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


I can't however comprehend a belief that Trump is THE GUY. How? Why?

Because they voted for him. Duh. God always agrees with their choices. Otherwise, what good would God be?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


God "raised up" Obama. Hell, He even re-elected him. Didn't hear a lot about God's Will from these folks, in those days.
posted by thelonius at 5:20 PM on August 23, 2017 [49 favorites]


However if they do believe that God can raise a king how in all that is holy do they look at Trump and see 'Man who God raised.'

Well, he sure didn't get there on his own merits.
posted by corb at 5:22 PM on August 23, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump is the real face of American Christianity. He always has been.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:23 PM on August 23, 2017 [19 favorites]


If there's one thing I definitely remember from the New Testament, it was Jesus's emphasis on promising all of the best things, and everything you ever wanted
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:23 PM on August 23, 2017 [17 favorites]


Like I keep saying, it's the new Divine Right of Kings. Caveat: only applies to rich white guys in their party.
posted by Archelaus at 5:23 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, he sure didn't get there on his own merits.

Ha ha. Thanks, I needed a good dark humor belly laugh.
posted by Jalliah at 5:24 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


So we're clear on him not being a President?
posted by Artw at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2017


Isn't this already known as Prosperity Gospel?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:26 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth - after the Great have sucked it dry, poisoned it, and defaulted on the loans. And the meek shall have to pay inheritance taxes on the earth, which the Great will not have paid taxes on, according to His will.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:28 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


Christian supremacist Mike Pence describes himself as "a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order." Note that "American" isn't anywhere in there.

Imagine the apocalyptic shitstorm that would result in a Democratic candidate calling themselves "a Muslim, a liberal, and a Democrat, in that order."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [55 favorites]


Paula White on Trump: "He is authentically - whether people like it or not - has been raised up by God." (via Twitter)
Paula White: "It is God who raises up a king ... When you fight against the plan of God, you are fighting against the hand of God." (via Twitter)


Man, George Washington and his ilk have a lot to answer for. Whoever succeeded them in office must really be on God's shit list.
posted by kewb at 5:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


US to sanction 4 countries for refusing deportations

Washington (CNN)The Trump administration will impose visa sanctions on four countries that refuse to take back foreign nationals deemed to be in the US illegally, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Dave Lapan said Wednesday.

The four countries -- Cambodia, Eritrea, Guinea and Sierra Leone, according to a DHS source close to the deliberations -- come from a running list of countries the US designates as "recalcitrant" for not accepting, or delaying, repatriation of their own citizens after the US has tried to deport them.

posted by Jalliah at 5:30 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


Given that they were manufactured cheaply and shoddily en masse, there's no more need to save each one than there would be to save each bakelite radio or Garfield touch-tone phone that rolled off the assembly lines. Save a few typical exemplars, and junk the rest.

Of course that's the sensible thing. But I thought we were engaging in this "put em in a museum" nonsense the same way the nutter racists demand the statues have historical value and aren't just paeans to racism: with full knowledge that it's bullshit. Why should we expend the political capital to educate people that these things are garbage? They won't believe anything we say about them anyway. Let them run up against all the museums making public statements about what trash these things are.
posted by phearlez at 5:32 PM on August 23, 2017


Yeah, cause Sierra Leone doesn't have any other major issues to deal with right now like 500 dead people. Super Christ-like to sanction them right now. EYEROLL.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 5:34 PM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


I would not have pegged those four countries in particular as ones we had a problem requiring enough deportations to for this to be a thing.
posted by Archelaus at 5:36 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe someone said, "They should put away Eric for treason," and Trump heard, "We should send away the Eritreans."
posted by Sys Rq at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


But in all seriousness:

I would not have pegged those four countries in particular as ones we had a problem requiring enough deportations to for this to be a thing.

That's probably the reason they were singled out. Get an initial "meh, small potatoes" reaction on a policy to later be applied to goddamn everyone.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:48 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Are there evangelical Christians with national reach who have or could eviscerate this nonsense?

Tony Campolo and Russell Moore come to mind, but they did publicly denounce Trump as anathema to their religious beliefs. It didn't work, to say the least.
posted by Rykey at 5:48 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


MysticMCJ: Mnuchin told a group of Louisville business leaders earlier in the day it was important for him to see the gold to attest that "it is part of our national assets."

There's a theory Mnuchin may have used the Fort Knox trip to get a better view of the eclipse. CREW has filed a FOIA request to get more info on their flight.
posted by bluecore at 5:51 PM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


Still so incredibly odd that Trump tweeted out the transgender ban last month and they're still in the "we'll soon send a memo to the Pentagon to tell them they have six months to do something" phase of implementation. Even his own staff is slow walking his pronouncements.
posted by zachlipton at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


I would not have pegged those four countries in particular as ones we had a problem requiring enough deportations to for this to be a thing.

This was something I was thinking about today. We hear and read a lot about "illegal immigrants" and most people automatically picture Hispanics and Latinx. (And the really racist just think "Mexico.") But actually there are a lot of people who come over and over stay their visas-- I believe Melania is one of them. My ex-husband is another. He is Japanese and got his green card when he married me. He never bothered to become a citizen so I don't know what he plans on doing with himself.

My point is that people come from all over the world and stay here. They come on studant visas, tourist visas, or limited work visas and never leave. I imagine that they don't get rounded up as much as Latinx in So. Cal or Texas, but they are living among us.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


They're being singled out because theyre black?
posted by Melismata at 5:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


Still so incredibly odd that Trump tweeted out the transgender ban last month and they're still in the "we'll soon send a memo to the Pentagon to tell them they have six months to do something" phase of implementation. Even his own staff is slow walking his pronouncements.

I've been reading speculation about potential court cases as this likely wouldn't hold up under the Constitution.
posted by Jalliah at 6:00 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


I suppose if ICE wanted to start digging in and deporting other nationalities they could just go to ethnic neighborhoods or restaurants or places of worship. LA has Little Korea but a large part of Orange County has neighborhoods and shopping areas that are mostly Korean. There are churches in and around Hawaiian Gardens, for example, that have services in Korean.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2017


Yeah, trump is campaigning now for 2020.

Reminder that according to our longstanding national tradition established by Mitch McConnell in 2016, no potential vacancies on the Supreme Court can be filled until we pick the next president. It's a time-honored matter of principle that is part of the bedrock of our republic.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:11 PM on August 23, 2017 [41 favorites]


Reminder that according to our longstanding national tradition established by Mitch McConnell in 2016, no potential vacancies on the Supreme Court can be filled until we pick the next president.

Yep. I have mentioned this here a few times on the blue and never seen any traction. If we aren't even getting traction in here, I just don't see it making headlines anywhere. "Well, what we meant was actual campaign season" or whatever BS they want to spew.

Republicans got away hard with that. Not really sure how we can hang that albatross on them, since no one wants to do it.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:33 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]


OMG - NYTimes to Louise Linton: The Right Way To Brag on Instagram

ETA -- by Lindy West
posted by Mchelly at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [27 favorites]


More from cuckoo land
Resisting Him Is Resisting “the Hand of God”
posted by adamvasco at 6:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Not really sure how we can hang that albatross on them, since no one wants to do it.

Democrats don't care about the Supreme Court. Democratic voters don't see any value in it whatsoever. It doesn't even register on the list of concerns. Republicans care only about the Supreme Court, because they recognize that's where they have the power to nullify the results of elections and popular sentiment to institute their regressive, unpopular radical corporate agenda.

The Republican project for 40 years has been to recreate a radical right version of the Warren Court, and they're going to do it. Maybe when they achieve a permanent majority of 7 Samuel Alito's and Neil Gorsuchs to invalidate Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, Democratic voters might finally wake up to the value of caring about judicial appointments.

But it won't be one day before. Stealing Obama's pick proved that. Democrats just don't care if it's not a passion project, and old men in black robes don't excite anyone other than the Republicans who wake up each and every day with a burning fury to outlaw abortion and cut taxes for billionaires.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 PM on August 23, 2017 [25 favorites]


> Reminder that according to our longstanding national
> tradition established by Mitch McConnell in 2016,
> no potential vacancies on the Supreme Court can
> be filled until we pick the next president.

Yep. I have mentioned this here a few times on the blue and never seen any traction. If we aren't even getting traction in here, I just don't see it making headlines anywhere. "Well, what we meant was actual campaign season" or whatever BS they want to spew.

Republicans got away hard with that. Not really sure how we can hang that albatross on them, since no one wants to do it.
Nobody here is unaware of what happened with the Supreme Court seat. It's a sore spot for many of us, which may be why quips and references to it don't get a lot of uptake, but I assure you nobody has forgotten.

It certainly isn't the case that nobody wants to see McConnell and the rest of the Senate Republicans answer for their blatant and cynical violation of longstanding norms. But what, realistically, do you expect us to do about it other than organize and vote accordingly in the next elections?
posted by Nerd of the North at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2017 [25 favorites]


I mean, let's be clear that basically everyone saying "fine, put it in a museum" is doing so because they know the people who want to keep the statues give zero fucks about history, and are just using it as a fig leaf. Nobody wants them in a museum. There may be historical value to understanding the (racist) context in which they were created and promulgated, but there is zero-to-negative-infinity value in actually keeping one instead of just a photograph along with some choice words explaining why it was awful.
posted by tocts at 6:44 PM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]


More from cuckoo land
Resisting Him Is Resisting “the Hand of God”


Someone quote First Timothy, Chapter 2, Verses 8 through 12 at her.
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
There's a lot of dopey shit in the NT. Sometimes it comes in handy.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some fanciful digital ceremony.
posted by pyramid termite at 6:46 PM on August 23, 2017 [13 favorites]


Resisting Him Is Resisting “the Hand of God”

See, now that's just making the wingnut version of God look foolish when his Hand gets dumped from office or trounced in 2020. Don't oversell your brand.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:47 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Right now I'd settle for a farcical aquatic ceremony.
posted by Talez at 6:47 PM on August 23, 2017 [15 favorites]


i think that's called baptism
posted by pyramid termite at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2017 [25 favorites]


I told y'all earlier that the final home of Jeff Davis, Beauvoir on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, has said they'll take the monuments. You can go here to read the statement about it for whatever that is worth. I don't think they are really thinking the whole project through.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:51 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


I mean, let's be clear that basically everyone saying "fine, put it in a museum" is doing so because they know the people who want to keep the statues give zero fucks about history, and are just using it as a fig leaf. Nobody wants them in a museum.

Um, I actually really do. Anything I say on here, I'm at least trying to give my actual opinion, because I really value this community and feel it deserves my honesty. Like, it's far from my priority right now, my priority is on fighting Nazis, but I die a little bit inside when people talk about the destruction of any statues or artifacts or books over 100 years old. I get that many museums have a lot of better artifacts to display, and nobody should be forced to take them, but if a Civil War museum with a lot of acreage wants to take them, that really does seem like an ideal solution to me.
posted by corb at 6:54 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm seeing on Facebook that some friends of my 83-year old mom drove up from Tucson to protest the rally in Phoenix, carrying signs like "God is Love" and "Now You've Pissed Off Grandma", and they are very upset about the cops throwing tear gas. As one of them said, "we were watching them line up and prepare themselves and wondering what the heck are they doing??"

They're adamant that the police attacked the protesters and that it looked obviously pre-planned to them.
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:54 PM on August 23, 2017 [81 favorites]




I read LooseFilter's comment as being addressed at the righty reactionary fear-driven folks embracing exclusionary politics, not at us fighting back against their awful.

That is correct, and I apologize that my sloppy use of the term "you" caused any upset to anyone. I would appreciate, however, from those who misunderstood and responded vitriocally, some bit of benefit of the doubt--especially in this forum, for goodness' sake--rather than the angry pounce I received.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:32 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


I understand the impetus for your angst Corb. Strangely, it was living in China surrounded by old things that made me less concerned about preservation and think of the long haul. Eventually it becomes a matter of space. If China tried to preserve everything over 100 years old the rest of the world would have a serious population explosion because the people would all have to leave as there would be no space to live and farm. This is a problem there that has already been going on for centuries. The only solution is a sort of preservation triage that focuses on importance rather than age. It's not as bad as it sounds either because often the act of throwing something away guarantees its preservation for longer than trying to preserve it. Garbage dumps, not surprisingly are fairly undisturbed by humans. This even works for paper. Right now Chinese History is experiencing a renaissance in early communist history as dumps and second hand stores are turning out to have better records than many official archives that are subject to the whims of funding, popularity and politics. So if you truly want to preserve a poorly made statue for future generations, burying it in a dump may be the best choice.
posted by wobumingbai at 7:33 PM on August 23, 2017 [32 favorites]


There's already been an ideal solution.

Not sure how the Confederacy deserves any different treatment than Stalinist Russia, if even that much. We're talking about a short lived rebellion that was subdued after only 4 years, not 80 years of genocidal autocracy. Take a few representative examples, and put them in a shame park. Melt down the rest. They're mostly cheap mass produced shit without artistic value anyway. We don't need to save all 1600 of these things. Choose, like, 10. There's your history.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 PM on August 23, 2017 [29 favorites]


The Strange Politics of ‘Classified’ Information
In 1956, the Defense Department estimated that about 90 percent of its classified documents could easily be made available to the public without damaging national security. Around the same time, Washington observers noticed another disturbing phenomenon: the government-employee ‘‘leak.’’ As Lebovic notes in his 2016 book ‘‘Free Speech and Unfree News,’’ the introduction of a permanent classification system had ‘‘transformed the practice and culture of journalism,’’ creating a Washington press corps dependent on tips and information from government employees. The new system also weighted the political scales in favor of officials adept at hiding unflattering facts and publicizing useful ones. At the F.B.I., the former director J. Edgar Hoover insisted that investigative files be kept secret, waging repeated battles to keep them away from the courts and Congress. But he also became a master of the leak, parceling out choice tidbits to reporters at strategic moments. The competing factions in today’s White House appear to understand this technique, even as Attorney General Jeff Sessions promises to step up the administration’s war on leaks.

During the 1970s, under the Nixon administration, this wobbly system of secrecy and leaks came near to collapse. In his 1971 Pentagon Papers opinion, Justice Potter Stewart of the Supreme Court noted how longstanding tensions over the public’s right to know had produced a vicious politics of deception and subterfuge. ‘‘When everything is classified, then nothing is classified,’’ he wrote, ‘‘and the system becomes one to be disregarded by the cynical or the careless, and to be manipulated by those intent on self-protection or self-promotion.’’ Stewart meant this as a call for reform. In Trump’s Washington, where the struggle over classified information plays out in day-to-day politics, it sounds more like a description of business as usual.
posted by XMLicious at 7:44 PM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


I can speak from long experience with the management and repatriation of Native American cultural patrimony and property in archives and museums that "putting something in a museum" is not a means of extracting it from contexts of power or control of dominant narratives. Museums are never neutral sites.
posted by spitbull at 7:50 PM on August 23, 2017 [57 favorites]


Museums are never neutral sites.

Repeated for emphasis. As part of my degree I wrote a truly wanky paper on museums as reverse panopticons. I'm properly ashamed of myself, but the point is still there -- museums are reflections of the people who build them and fill them, and are storehouses of cultural relativism more than anything else.
posted by kalimac at 7:53 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]




Right now I'd settle for a farcical aquatic ceremony.

I don't know if you've heard, but the lady of the lake aint fuckin around anymore.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're going to convert our currency to rupees
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yes, Trump’s diehard supporters just want to piss you off
Pity the Obama supporter. After eight years, no one tried to understand you.

There weren’t probing front-page profiles in the New York Times marveling at how Tamara Levine — an Esthetician loving life in Torrance, California — is still thrilled with her president, despite the failure of Cap and Trade. Somehow, Obama’s five or six other major legislative victories secured his first years in office sufficed.

Trump supporters, meanwhile, are teased out, analyzed like fresh turds and elevated by the press who feel they missed the story of the 2016 election — as if 78,000 votes in three states is evidence of much more than a fluke, a fluke many major media outlets helped enable with stories they elevated beyond parody or downplayed into near oblivion until it was too late.

In an effort to not be fooled again, the press is trying to explain to itself why Trump’s horrid poll numbers aren’t actually that bad.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:00 PM on August 23, 2017 [93 favorites]


House GOP bungles attempt to compare tax code to Legend of Zelda

Parasitic Armored Arachnid: Gohmert
posted by jason_steakums at 8:03 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


Metafilter: the angry pounce
posted by Coventry at 8:03 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


...but I die a little bit inside when people talk about the destruction of any statues or artifacts or books over 100 years old.

You cool with us scrapping all the ones built after 1917 at least, and maybe leaving the older ones to the museums?

(The Durham one was set up in 1924, it seems, and was "a relatively inexpensive mass produced model from the McNeel Marble Company" as has been noted earlier in the thread.)
posted by NMcCoy at 8:07 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


i fervently hope to see his family name become mud, his assets seized, his progeny shunned, and him spending the rest of life inside a prison cell [emphasis mine]

It occurs to me that while you may not be able to bring money laundering charges against a sitting president, you can bring civil asset forfeiture proceedings against, for example, a midtown high-rise used as a vehicle for laundering money.

Not only would that be hilarious, but it would also disrupt a lot of cashflows, providing suddenly desperate accomplices with plenty of opportunities to make mistakes.

Please tell me Mueller's got somebody on staff who specializes in this stuff.
posted by dirge at 8:13 PM on August 23, 2017 [56 favorites]


Plus we might actually get civil asset forfeiture reform out of it
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:17 PM on August 23, 2017 [39 favorites]


They're adamant that the police attacked the protesters and that it looked obviously pre-planned to them.

I can weigh in on this some. My teams were using Zello, which is a walkie-talkie app, at the behest of our excellent organizer. (Works great for protests by the way-- we would have lost track of people and been completely fucked once the smoke and tear gas hit without it. With it, we were able to organize medic triage and extraction for the worst hit.) We went back and listened to our recordings. One of our team leads near the entrance of the convention says, "Guys, there are a lot more riot cops leaving the building." Literally three minutes later, like, on the dot, the app explodes as we all start reporting tear gas and pepper spray being deployed at multiple locations.

The counter-narrative is that protesters were throwing water bottles, rocks, and had been told to disperse and warned the protest was now "unlawful". Police Chief Williams says one of the warnings was police turning up in full riot gear, while the department spokesperson says that reporters "may not have heard all of them" [!!!] Supposedly the police will, as always, investigate themselves. The mayor has issued an "oops, sorry a couple people got hit with pepperspray on accident" sort of statement which is not even CLOSE to the reality of what happened.

That was pretty obviously not the case. Here's a series of photos taken less than a second apart. Here's a video from the front lines that shows the cops advancing. A friend of mine went up to the cops and tried to get some info-- they wouldn't talk to or acknowledge him. This is in line with other protestors reporting that they asked the police what they should do after they fired tear gas and received no response. Here's another view from the parking garage above one of the streets. [Apologies for all the FB links, but that's where the action is right now.] One of my city's councilmembers was also gassed, without warning.

The AZ ACLU is investigating
and wants people to come forward with accounts. Puente Human Rights Movement is planning to demonstrate at the next Phoenix City Council meeting to denounce the violence of PHX PD. I'll be there. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go outside and enjoy this thunderstorm.
posted by WidgetAlley at 8:20 PM on August 23, 2017 [139 favorites]


Go all in on the asset forfeiture, United States of America v. A Hauntingly Bad Toupee
posted by jason_steakums at 8:22 PM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


Go all in on the asset forfeiture, United States of America v. A Hauntingly Bad Toupee

As delightful as it would be to see trump bald, the hair is real. A hauntingly bad combover with hair plugs cannot be seized via in rem prosecution.
posted by dis_integration at 8:33 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]




Scrap the fucking mass-produced garbage statues.

I will eat cake so large that I will die of it if, at any time during the remainder of my life, we're in any danger of forgetting about the fucking god-damned republican spunk-factory that is the confederacy.
posted by maxwelton at 9:04 PM on August 23, 2017 [59 favorites]


"... and here are some photos of the confederate revisionist propaganda statues that were destroyed when the country finally started confronting the lies of the Lost Causers" is a way better history to leave for the future, imo
posted by jason_steakums at 9:09 PM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


Hey, Ben Carson violated the Hatch Act the other night. [WP]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:19 PM on August 23, 2017 [5 favorites]


Laws aren't real anymore.
posted by Artw at 9:27 PM on August 23, 2017 [27 favorites]


Hey, Ben Carson violated the Hatch Act the other night. [WP]

Probably not, actually. The "UPDATE" at the end of the piece makes it pretty clear. The notion that Carson is somehow responsible for how he's introduced (and that an introduction by a third party is somehow a legal smoking gun) is a stretch unbecoming of WaPo.
(But of course fuck Ben Carson.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:32 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL Senate special -- Opinion Savvy poll has Moore up 50-32 in the GOP primary runoff, in line with previous polling. Oh, and Moore's still sure Obama wasn't born in the US.

** 2018 Senate -- Claire McCaskill, one of the most vulnerable Dem senators, is accusing likely GOP contender AG Josh Hawley of violating a state residency law. [KC Star] Nice to see Dems playing offense here.

** 2018 House:
-- Dems now have formal declared candidates in all but 28 House districts.

-- PPP poll finds Dems lead generic ballot 49-35. Clinton voters plan to vote Dem 90-4; Trump voters plan to vote GOP 74-13.
** Election integrity:
-- The Kobach commission seems to be up to stuff, but he's not bothering to tell the Democrats on the commission anything about it.

-- New Hampshire passed a law tightening voting residency requirements in a fairly transparent attempt to exclude college students. The League of Women Voters is now suing. [Boston Globe]

-- Mentioned upstream, a federal court found that Texas is still acting illegally with its voter ID requirements. Rick Hasen on why this could be big.

-- Brennan Center suing Indiana over voter roll purges.
** Odds & ends:
-- Mentioned upstream, but bad new polling for Trump from both Morning Consult (39% approval, 73% from Republicans) and Quinnipiac (35% approval; strong disapprove at double strong approve).

-- Trump only at 50% against some likely GOP opponents in a survey of GOP primary voters. Pollster is trying to spin this as "crushing the competition" which...I don't think that's how that works.

-- Q poll has support of allowing trans people to serve in the military at 68/27.

-- In more farcical poll news, PPP finds Trump voters think whites are most discriminated against race, Christians most discriminated against religion.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [50 favorites]


Well, after this Trump business is all over, a vastly less Trump-friendly Congress, when such exists, needs to pass some kind of law against such early presidential campaigning. FFS.
posted by raysmj at 9:40 PM on August 23, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is it bad that any time I see a reference to Roy Moore, for a quick flash, I read it as Rudy Ray Moore? Because the notion of Dolemite running for office in Alabama is just too delicious not to contemplate. And fuck it, it's 2017 — anything goes.
posted by CommonSense at 9:44 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


Hey, Ben Carson violated the Hatch Act the other night. [WP]

Ben Carson was hatched? Explains a lot.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:08 PM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey guys I'm going to be on a political podcast soon and they wanted five things to talk about this week, specifically five horrible things that happened and I figured ..I figured YOu GUYS WOULD KNOW

I mean assume it's going to be all Trump what are thr smaller, horrible things
posted by The Whelk at 10:10 PM on August 23, 2017 [9 favorites]


The part where it became clear that he thought “clean coal” meant it was washed after being mined out of the ground maybe
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:14 PM on August 23, 2017 [6 favorites]


Literally three minutes later, like, on the dot, the app explodes as we all start reporting tear gas and pepper spray being deployed at multiple locations.

Hmm... I've seen Boston PD clear the streets around the garden after a show with similar tactics. I suspect the Police's "reasoning" is, "If we don't clear the streets, these people will be hanging around all night."

"Show's over. Go Home"
posted by mikelieman at 10:15 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


RE: Statue disposal. Strip them of identifying material and sink them for an artificial reef. There must a sewage treatment plant plant someplace that needs a seawall.
posted by Mitheral at 10:20 PM on August 23, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Whelk: Dana Rohrabacher(R-Surfboards and Moscow) went to London and met with Julian Assange for three hours and got some "mind boggling" info that will change history that everyone thinks is meta data on the DNC email hack that proves that hack was an inside job and not proof of Russian election and email hackery. No, for reals. An actual US Congressman thinks this and acted on such thoughts. Yes, "mind boggling" is an actual quote from Rohrabacher.
posted by notyou at 10:21 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


(Assange is aiming for a pardon in exchange for the mind boggle. Rohrabacher is carrying water for Russians, as he has done for 20 years. No for reals!)
posted by notyou at 10:26 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


In fairness, Rohrabacher's mind is pretty easily boggled.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:26 PM on August 23, 2017 [16 favorites]


The Whelk - if you want some variety there's the story leading up to these cats.
posted by Artw at 10:36 PM on August 23, 2017 [8 favorites]


If mainstream public history museums won't take these monuments into their collections, they'll either sit outside the museum (serving the same function as a monument, so: no change) or they'll be acquired by some zealot with an agenda, a la one of the Creation Museums.

Round them all up and fill an actual working parking lot with them.

This will serve two purposes. First, everybody resents the guy already parked in a space they want to some extent, and having the hallowed symbols of the Right function as literal obstructions is appropriately symbolic. Second, seeing all these near-identical monuments all lined up next to each other throws their mass manufactured astroturf nature into sharp relief.
posted by flabdablet at 10:37 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


I just recently moved into his district (I've admired him from afar!) and the coastal elites in the OC don't seem to mind the boggle overmuch (he's had some decent fundraisers lately, if his FB is to be believed), although one or two well heeled Dem contenders (Rouda probably is the one who comes out), plus changing demographics east and north of PCH hopefully mean the end of the line for Representative Rohrabacher.
posted by notyou at 10:38 PM on August 23, 2017 [2 favorites]


From upthread:
If 10% of the population rightfully thinks the Presidency was stolen from them, and Trump is tweeting and ginning up violence all of the country (you know he will), 10% will be more than enough.
Jeez, I guess it's a good thing that liberals tend to be less violent. We've managed to avoid starting a Civil War twice in less than 20 years over stolen presidencies.
posted by xyzzy at 10:45 PM on August 23, 2017 [67 favorites]


I mean assume it's going to be all Trump what are thr smaller, horrible things

I thought the Carl Icahn story was fascinating, especially because it's one of the few cases in which Trump's people actually put the brakes on a grift. It fits well with the Axios story about staffers who say they stay because "you have no idea how much crazy stuff we kill."

Going along with notyou's suggestion, the New Yorker's Assange story is a heavy read.

This Post story, on the number of generals everywhere: Military leaders consolidate power in Trump administration

ProPublica asking WTF is up with Ben Carson and HUD.

That Florida has 1.6 million people disenfranchised and the ongoing campaign for a ballot initiative to change that remains rather under-the-radar and is super important.

Phoenix Police attacking protesters without warning.

I feel like you could fill an entire podcast just trying to unpack the psychological trauma behind Trump talking about the elites last night:
"Now, you know, I was a good student. I always hear about the elite. You know, the elite. They're elite? I went to better schools than they did. I was a better student than they were. I live in a bigger, more beautiful apartment, and I live in the White House, too, which is really great."
'All Star' by Smash Mouth, but all notes are in C, which I haven't figured out how to blame Trump for yet, but rest assured I am working on it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 PM on August 23, 2017 [44 favorites]


Hey guys I'm going to be on a political podcast soon and they wanted five things to talk about this week, specifically five horrible things that happened and I figured ..I figured YOu GUYS WOULD KNOW

Five Trump-related horrible things from the last week:

Reversing the ban on bottled water in national parks

Expanding the role of local law enforcement in immigration

Sanctioning four countries that are not accepting deportations

Trump's private demand that McConnell protect him from Russia probe

"Clean" Coal

I think these have all been discussed in the thread, so there are probably more (and better) resources on these already in here.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 11:02 PM on August 23, 2017 [14 favorites]


The article about institutional racism that jgirl linked above gets at the work that needs to be done to address the reality of liberal racism experienced by Chris Newman (also linked by jgirl). I'll cop to grappling with this myself, even (especially) as a brown man. Given the deep roots of white supremacy in this nation, the essential question we have to ask of the resistance is:

Will white people strive to achieve mere order, or will they strive for justice and equality?

I recently read Dr. King's Letter from Birmingham Jail and realized that my fear of Trump is really a fear of the disorder it will bring, not because of the injustices it commits every day. This is wrong. When we tell ourselves that our whiteness or socioeconomic status (in my case) will keep us mostly okay during this administration, it is setting us apart from black people and other people of color. A wall has already been built in our minds when we talk about how things don't affect us directly, or that things are bad for POC already. Black people are fellow citizens and brothers and sisters in spirit. When we say "me and mine" or "our family" or "my people" we must take that step to include every member of this nation, black, brown, and white. This is not color blindness, but color awareness and inclusion along a familial and personal level. Tamir Rice, Freddie Gray, Philando Castile and numerous others are our brothers The boot has been on the neck of black people for decades and its because we've partitioned them away from society. You don't let this sort of thing happen to family.

They're awful, these boundaries that institutional racism creates. I've experienced racism myself, but white people have got it such that brown people and black people fight over scraps. We POC are just as capable of enforcing these divisions if it means we're not on the bottom rung of the racial hierarchy by our own judgement. I've heard myself think, "well, at least I'm not black, maybe the cops won't just kill me in some random traffic stop if I can get good English out fast enough." It's a mental self defense. You don't want to confront the idea that your own people (fellow citizens, fellow human beings) are being oppressed every day, killed every week. So you box them away. They become other people. They are African Americans. Or Mexicans. Or Asians. Or LGBTQ. Or disabled. Or old.

It is imperative that we make ourselves believe otherwise. We must drill into our collective national conscience that the oppression of someone who has a different skin color is the oppression of all of us. It is the oppression of our family. We must work to build institutions that enforce the notion that we are a united nation.

Awareness is only part of it. We must act on that awareness or it's nothing. What the heck does an equal and just society look like when white supremacy is baked into every corner of it? Dr. King's vision, and the end goals of the Civil Rights movement are radical because they seek to upend that order for justice. Even if we defeat open white supremacy we must prepare ourselves to face further chaos and discomfort to eliminate the topsoil of institutional white supremacy lest it all grows back. If we'd only listened closely to black and brown calls for social justice all along, if we'd charged forth with the ideal of equal creation asserted in the Declaration of Independence and not looked back... I'm largely repeating points made over and over again by POC across the United States... come on, this is not some new thing. Less fretting, more listening, learning, and doing.
posted by Mister Cheese at 11:16 PM on August 23, 2017 [62 favorites]


I can understand how people can belief that God, their God can do such a thing. I can comprehend that. I can't however comprehend a belief that Trump is THE GUY. How? Why?

He hates women, LGBTQ people, PoC, and Muslims. Just like Christians do.
posted by happyroach at 11:40 PM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]


DId anything come of that rumor that a protestor had died from the Phoenix police assault?
posted by Coventry at 12:05 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm just catching up with some MSNBC tape from Morning Joe and apparently McConnell's last straw with Trump was having his wife "dragged" into that disgusting infrastructure press conference where he doubled down on equating the neo-Nazis with the counter protesters.

Hey. MITCH. Your wife has feet and a brain. She could have just walked away from that display. It would have made a strong and important statement. Instead we are hearing statements from her about how she loves "both" of "her men."

So it's unsurprising to hear that Mitch thinks of his wife as a possession and an extension of his own political career.
posted by xyzzy at 12:48 AM on August 24, 2017 [49 favorites]


Think about it. Think about the history-ish museums you've visited. Apart from something maybe in an atrium or a big art installation, can you picture a fifteen-foot tall guy riding a horse the size of a car, just parked in a gallery? I can't!

Maybe take one of those abandoned exurban shopping malls and turn it into the equivalent of the yards full of concrete Lenins and Stalins that abound in the former USSR. Call it the “Museum of Historical Statuary” or the “Civil War History Park” or something.
posted by acb at 1:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


or they'll be acquired by some zealot with an agenda, a la one of the Creation Museums.

If you liked the Creation Museums, you'll LOVE the White Nationalist Confederate Fantasy Museums.


Oh hey, it turns out there is a case where I'm cool with segregation! Who cares if they create their own shitheel confederate wankfest with the terra cotta douchebags all lined up in a row? Let em. Even aside from the fact that it'll undoubtedly turn out just as financially successful as previous nonsense museums it means the stupid things aren't in public spaces bothering folks.
posted by phearlez at 1:30 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I would favour displaying the statues like this, only with confederate monuments instead of skulls.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 1:46 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


That's quite a good idea. Bullshit makes excellent fertiliser.
posted by flabdablet at 2:06 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I've been following some excitement about the Dearborn e-mail that contextualizes it within the overall Russia story. Some of this was mentioned above but I thought y'all would be interested in a summary of what I've been reading.

If you're prone to setting up corkboards with red string, you'd see a line of connections between Dearborn, Carter Page, and Sessions*. The "WV" detail of the email to Dearborn about hooking up Trump's campaign with Putin could reference the West Virginia governor, Jim Justice, who sold an empty coal mine to a Russian mining conglomerate for like half a billion dollars and bought it back for $5 million. The same guy who switched to the Republican Party at a Trump rally.

Dearborn snagged Page (though the campaign insists it was Sam Clovis* who brought Page on) to help with the campaign's foreign policy shop. According to the dossier, which is heating back up again, Page allegedly snagged millions as a consultancy fee for enabling a huge Rosneft privatization deal that the followers of the Russian conspiracy believe (but cannot prove, afaik) enriched Trump directly. This was allegedly in exchange for lifting Russian sanctions. Around the time this deal was done Page flew to Moscow for a meeting. Recall that the Trump campaign directed the change of the RNC platform calling for appeasement in Ukraine matters and other pro-Russia language. This could be viewed as a strong signal to Russian interests that Trump intended to follow through on a promise if he was elected. Note that the Rosneft sale was engineered to get around US sanctions and to this day no one knows who owns the shares purchased in that deal on 12/07/2016.

This all fits in with the extraordinary pique on display from prominent Russians when Trump signed those sanctions, but none of it is definitely proven at this time.

*Dearborn is currently Trump's Deputy CoS and Sessions' former CoS. Sam Clovis was the co-chair of Trump's campaign and is now Trump's nominee for chief scientist at Agriculture. Schumer has called for the recall of that nomination due to Clovis' lack of scientific credentials.
posted by xyzzy at 2:54 AM on August 24, 2017 [28 favorites]


OK, so I'm just catching up with Late Night Live and there's a throwaway "scoop" at 17:46 into this story, where Peter Hayes claims that "about two weeks ago" - which would be about the time that the Guardian was reporting Tillerson as making reassuring noises to the North - that he's also telling the South's foreign minister that unless Seoul lines up behind the US "maximum pressure" program, the US might be "forced" to unilaterally attack North Korea.

Is that something that's already been covered somewhere in this or previous threads and I just missed it? Because it seems to me that it should have been quite big news.
posted by flabdablet at 3:23 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey. MITCH. Your wife has feet and a brain. She could have just walked away from that display. It would have made a strong and important statement. Instead we are hearing statements from her about how she loves "both" of "her men."

I don't know about this. You're probably right that there's an element of sexsim involved but Elaine Chao is in a different position than her husband. She's a cabinet secretary. She serves at the pleasure of the president. So far no member of the cabinet has resigned in disgust. Why should we expect her to be any more principled than the rest of her colleagues? Mitch McConnell is the senate majority leader. In theory Trump can make McConell's life a bit more difficult but Trump's power over him diminishes with each passing week. I assume McConnell has done the calculations and then decided to leak the contents of his conversations with Trump. The insane part is that Trump decided to stir up a shit storm and then decided to drag the senate majority leader's wife into the storm. He did this even though there is a non-zero chance that sometime during his presidency congress could decide to impeach him.
posted by rdr at 3:34 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


My complaint about the Chao situation was more along the lines of, "oh, now that your posession has been demeaned, now you're mad?" I don't actually expect her to behave any differently than anyone else in Trump's cabinet. She has her own calculations and motivations.
posted by xyzzy at 4:15 AM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe take one of those abandoned exurban shopping malls and turn it into the equivalent of the yards full of concrete Lenins and Stalins that abound in the former USSR. Call it the “Museum of Historical Statuary” or the “Civil War History Park” or something.

Stone Mountain, anyone? It's already a tourist draw and people are fretting about how to take it down. Ship the Confederate monuments there instead, turn it into a theme park, spin it so it's like "now all y'all can see your heroes all in one place rather than having only these monuments in the mountain to look at".

This will also have the effect of drawing all of the racism tourists into one place that the rest of us can avoid. Kind of like Times Square in New York City, only on a national scale.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:28 AM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't actually expect her to behave any differently than anyone else in Trump's cabinet. She has her own calculations and motivations.

But I'm sure she ripped into Trump when she was alone with her husband. I can't wait for the fallout when a cabinet member gets hot miked.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:30 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, this is embarrassing.

When I was a kid, my favorite aunt lived in Georgia. We only went to visit her maybe one or two times every couple years but it was always fun. She was the "rich aunt" so she bought us cool toys, took us to eat waffles for breakfast, and let us basically treated me and my brothers like little princes when we were at her house.

Anyway, one thing we always did was visit Stone Mountain. It was rad as a kid because there was a gondola, and a mountain face you could almost fall off of, and a bunch of dudes carved into the side.

I did not realize *until last week* that Stone Mountain is a racist-ass monument to a trio of all-American shit heads. I'm not sure how I missed it. I never read the placards as a kid, for sure, but I'm sure one relative or other tried to tell me who they were. All my life I've talked about how rad Stone Mountain is, how it's a really neat park, how you can see for miles and miles and also some dudes are carved in the side? All my life I talked about how awesome White Supremacy Six Flags is and didn't realize it.

But now I do realize it. And I'm appalled. And I have a ton of great memories there are a kid, but I don't want that to cloud my judgement about what that park really stands for. If Davis, Lee, and Jackson are going to stay on that mountain then they better install a big goddamn placard on the mountain itself that reads "WHITE SUPREMACIST ASSHOLES, DON'T BE LIKE THEM" so big no dumb kid could possibly miss it.
posted by Tevin at 5:40 AM on August 24, 2017 [58 favorites]


Trump just retweeted this.
posted by guiseroom at 5:47 AM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Can't tell if Stephen Miller has control of his Twitter account, or if he's naturally good at white supremacist memes.
posted by Yowser at 5:50 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I die a little bit inside when people talk about the destruction of any statues or artifacts or books over 100 years old.

OK, so? A lot of these statues aren't even 100 years old. The statue in Charlottesville that was the epicenter of the fascist displays was built in 1924. Very few of them were made in the immediate aftermath of the war, and many if not most came from time periods where there were huge movements of white supremacist anger, specifically the 20s and 60s. Assigning some arbitrary date of historical value strips all of the context away, which is one of the major problems of having them up in the first place. That such a large portion don't even meet that already-arbitrary standard is just icing on the cake.

Stone Mountain, anyone?

Jesus fuck, no. That's exactly the kind of place we don't want them to make the center of a resurgent white supremacist movement. It was completed in 1972, over a century after the Civil War ended, and it's already a rallying point for white supremacist violence. It was specifically used as the birthplace of a new version of the KKK (alongside a lynching, no less), and the then-owners of the mountain specifically set aside for their use. Making Stone Mountain some sort of "Confederate theme park" is a really horrible idea that only serves to encourage racist terrorists.

This will also have the effect of drawing all of the racism tourists into one place that the rest of us can avoid. Kind of like Times Square in New York City, only on a national scale.

How about there not actually be any places for racism tourists at all? Fuck these racist shitheels, they don't deserve a place to venerate their vile ideology, and neither the citizens nor the government of this country are obligated to give them a goddamn thing, let alone a amusement park for their bigotry.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:52 AM on August 24, 2017 [41 favorites]


Anyway, one thing we always did was visit Stone Mountain. It was rad as a kid because there was a gondola, and a mountain face you could almost fall off of, and a bunch of dudes carved into the side.

It's also pretty easily climable by children, which is a big deal when you are under 10 - I climbed a mountain!
posted by thelonius at 5:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I appreciate emptywheel's read of the potential Arpaio pardon: "There is no better way to keep the support of cops who support Trump because he encourages their abuses then by pardoning Arpaio for the most spectacular case of such abuses."

It's now official policy that all citizens are Americans, but some citizens are more American than others. JFC.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:00 AM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


Maybe before he requires immigrants to speak English, he should learn it? #there #too

@realDonaldTrump
The Fake News is now complaining about my different types of back to back speeches. Well, their was Afghanistan (somber), the big Rally.....

@realDonaldTrump
...(enthusiastic, dynamic and fun) and the American Legion - V.A. (respectful and strong).To bad the Dems have no one who can change tones!
posted by chris24 at 6:01 AM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Please tell me Mueller's got somebody on staff who specializes in this stuff.

There's a detailed look at the whole team by Betsy Woodruff out this morning in the Daily Beast.

DREAM TEAM: Inside Robert Mueller’s Army - To probe alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election, the special counsel has essentially built his own miniature Justice Department. Meet the experts he’s recruited.
In a secure location in southwest Washington, D.C., with access to a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility for classified material, 16 of the country’s top lawyers have passed the last several months working on an investigation that is will likely be as consequential as it is secretive.

The following details—gleaned from conversations with people familiar with President Donald Trump’s legal team, as well as intelligence experts and friends of the people working for special counsel Robert Mueller—help explain the broad range of legal and counterintelligence experts he’s assembled.
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [20 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
The Fake News is now complaining about my different types of back to back speeches. Well, their was Afghanistan (somber), the big Rally.....

@realDonaldTrump
...(enthusiastic, dynamic and fun) and the American Legion - V.A. (respectful and strong).To bad the Dems have no one who can change tones!


And he deleted these and tweeted again to fix the "their" in the first tweet, but tweeted the second one with the "too" error still there. Took a third try to get that right.
posted by chris24 at 6:22 AM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


My complaint about the Chao situation was more along the lines of, "oh, now that your posession has been demeaned, now you're mad?"

It's possible for someone to take and express offense at an insult to their partner without it being a display of sexist dominance -- especially when that partner is not in a position to express offense themselves.

Not that I have any interest in defending Mitch McConnell.
posted by Slothrup at 6:23 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


especially when that partner is not in a position to express offense themselves.

A Cabinet secretary is not in a position to express offense?
posted by Etrigan at 6:28 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]



And he deleted these and tweeted again to fix the "their" in the first tweet, but tweeted the second one with the "too" error still there. Took a third try to get that right


If we keep this up, maybe we can get him to denounce Grammar Nazis.
posted by nubs at 6:28 AM on August 24, 2017 [17 favorites]


And yet the spicy meme of a white man eclipsing a black man stands.
posted by Yowser at 6:30 AM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yeah, please don't turn Stone Mountain into racist central. I'm all for blasting off the traitors from the mountain's face and replacing them with a relief of Outkast. Then it can remain a fun place to spend a day hiking (up a mountain!) and pic-nic-ing.
posted by snwod at 6:32 AM on August 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


Just once in my life I'd to see the cops treat Nazis, Klansmen, and other assorted right wing white supremacists with the same aggression and viciousness that they routinely subject left wing protesters to.

It'll never happen of course.

Why were the cops in Phoenix so unnecessarily violent and vicious to the protesters? The answer is simple; they love Trump and hate people who oppose him. Our entire police force nationwide is extremely right wing and has a culture of despising the left. Of course they're gentle and understanding with the Nazis, they prefer Nazis to liberals.
posted by sotonohito at 6:38 AM on August 24, 2017 [40 favorites]


A Cabinet secretary is not in a position to express offense?

A Cabinet Secretary who wants to keep her job is not.

Sure, I think she should resign too, I think they all should. But they are bad people who have their own agendas and they aren't resigning. In a different administration Chao might be able to express offense without resigning or risking her job. Not in this one.
posted by OmieWise at 6:40 AM on August 24, 2017


Maybe before he requires immigrants to speak English, he should learn it? #there #too

I mix up those words all the time, especially when I'm writing fast. I know the difference though and it's something that I'm aware my brain does so when I'm writing something important I know I have to check. I mix words that sound the same in my head. It's writing quirk that was actually diagnosed as part of a mild disability back in my University days. It's also related to issues with spelling and mixing up specific numbers. I ended up getting special dispensation on essay type exams where going back and proofreading was difficult. I'm very sympathic and usually ignore these types of mistakes when I see them in faster moving and more informal type forums because of it.

Here on Metafilter when that happens it's because I haven't taken the time to check before posting. I cringe when it gets past the edit window. It's mildly embarassing but not the end of the world. But then I'm not a leader of country, in one of the most powerful positions in the world. These posts don't have my real name attached and aren't going into official Presidential archives. They aren't going to be in the news.

To not check or be aware of basic spelling in this sort of situation IS embarassing and pretty pathetic. I have no sympathy.
posted by Jalliah at 6:41 AM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Sounds like a hurricane is about to hit Texas so here comes that first non-self created crisis.
posted by Artw at 6:42 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


How about there not actually be any places for racism tourists at all?
I've got some bad news for you about Dolly Parton's North vs. South theme saloon, complete with "magical" Native Americans to open the show and then disappear for the remainder of the evening.
posted by xyzzy at 6:44 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


And more on Dear Leader's morning tweets. While him attacking both Ryan and McConnell is always delightful – especially 12 hours after McConnell and the WH each released statements saying everything was peachy – the more interesting thing about these is the tacit admission that Rs don't have the votes to raise the debt ceiling.

@realDonaldTrump
I requested that Mitch M & Paul R tie the Debt Ceiling legislation into the popular V.A. Bill (which just passed) for easy approval. They...

@realDonaldTrump
...didn't do it so now we have a big deal with Dems holding them up (as usual) on Debt Ceiling approval. Could have been so easy-now a mess!
posted by chris24 at 6:44 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Would it have been possible to add the debt ceiling to the VA bill?* And how does that fit with what I understood to be the administration's position that there should be a "clean" debt ceiling bill?

*Obvs, if it was tied to the VA bill, that bill would have been more difficult to pass, so Trump is wrong either way.
posted by OmieWise at 6:51 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Stone Mountain, anyone?

Jesus fuck, no. That's exactly the kind of place we don't want them to make the center of a resurgent white supremacist movement. It was completed in 1972, over a century after the Civil War ended, and it's already a rallying point for white supremacist violence.


IIRC, Stone Mountain was mentioned in the prologue of some 1990s roleplaying sourcebook (Vampire perhaps?), with the author rhapsodising about it being a magical place to retreat to to be alone with his thoughts or something.

Those were more innocent and/or less woke times.
posted by acb at 6:51 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


A Cabinet Secretary who wants to keep her job is not [in a position to express offense].

Serious question: why would Chao be such a person? She's done the political-appointee gig before, and she's already got her name and face in an administration, and a less dysfunctional one. Her current position is fairly powerless, marginalized, and sidelined so she isn't in a position to lose power and influence. She certainly doesn't need the money. Speaking truth to power and rehabilitating her role in this administration is about the best legacy she can hope for. What does she really have to lose?
posted by jackbishop at 6:54 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ship the Confederate monuments there instead, turn it into a theme park, spin it so it's like "now all y'all can see your heroes all in one place rather than having only these monuments in the mountain to look at".

No.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


Think Progress on Christian Nationalism and Donnies best friend Paula White his Favorite Pastor who has a Pretend Doctoral Degree and History With Bankruptcy.
Earlier this year several publications explored that Trump speaks like a prosperity gospel preacher.
Here’s How Each Member Of Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board Responded To His Comments & The Events In Charlottesville 10 days ago.
posted by adamvasco at 6:59 AM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Would it have been possible to add the debt ceiling to the VA bill?*

Yes, but then as you mentioned it wouldn't have been an innocuous VA bill, it would've been a debt ceiling bill, one of the most contentious partisan things today.

I thought the administration didn't want a clean bill

Mulvaney said three weeks ago that admin was unanimous in wanting a clean bill.
posted by chris24 at 6:59 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


many if not most came from time periods where there were huge movements of white supremacist anger, specifically the 20s and 60s

Most Confederate monuments were erected in the same parts of the country at the same time as lynchings were at their peak.

Southern Poverty Law Center, Publicly Supported Symbols of the Confederacy
Equal Justice Initiative, Lynching in America

posted by kirkaracha at 7:00 AM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


Serious question: why would Chao be such a person? [...] Speaking truth to power and rehabilitating her role in this administration is about the best legacy she can hope for. What does she really have to lose?

Oh, I completely agree with you. I have no idea why she wouldn't speak out or resign. I'm not trying to carry water for her at all, I have long hated her particularly because of the racist positions she has provided cover for. I'm just pointing out that she isn't in a position to speak out, even though she is in absolute terms a powerful person, if she want's to keep her job.
posted by OmieWise at 7:03 AM on August 24, 2017


The "Weird History" podcast this week (highly recommended and do check out his subtweeting of Trump via a multipart series on Italian Fascism in which he never mentions Trump once) the host discusses Confederate memorials as (among all their other problematic aspects) just bad history. He also talks about how statues of Lenin and Stalin in the former Communist bloc are handled, especially in Memento Park in Budapest where a whole bunch of them were relocated in order to present a very pointed lesson on tyranny, propaganda and history.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:03 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


As I understood the "tied to the Wall" position, it was about the budget. Govt shutdown would occur without continued funding of the govt. Default on debt would occur without a debt ceiling increase.
posted by OmieWise at 7:06 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah. Mulvaney doesn't give a shit if the plebs don't get their services. He only cares if his assets go tits up.
posted by Talez at 7:08 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


IIRC, Stone Mountain was mentioned in the prologue of some 1990s roleplaying sourcebook (Vampire perhaps?), with the author rhapsodising about it being a magical place to retreat to to be alone with his thoughts or something.

Those were more innocent and/or less woke times.


I visted Mount Rushmore years back when driving from Ontario to BC. It's an American icon and one of the places I'd been seeing and hearing about since birth so we went. It is cool and all but it's also one of those things that knowing the real and less romanticized history of the area it can also be seen a really big carved in stone, fuck you, we won, big ass, in your face symbol of US imperial and colonial history.

Perspective is everything.
posted by Jalliah at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [24 favorites]


Mulvaney doesn't give a shit if the plebs don't get their services.

I will not let this slander stand. Mulvaney absolutely cares about whether people reeive government services. He is very against it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:11 AM on August 24, 2017 [34 favorites]


This will also have the effect of drawing all of the racism tourists into one place that the rest of us can avoid. Kind of like Times Square in New York City, only on a national scale.

I feel like Colonial Williamsburg already has this covered.
posted by sutureselves at 7:12 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kalhan Rosenblatt/NBC News: Trump Retweets Meme of Himself Eclipsing Obama in Twitter Frenzy
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:13 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


"...so now we have a big deal with Dems holding them up (as usual) on Debt Ceiling approval. Could have been so easy-now a mess!"

Dems holding up debt ceiling? As usual!? Man, fuck you sideways.
posted by Horkus at 7:14 AM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]


And yet the spicy meme of a white man eclipsing a black man stands.

And Trump is too stupid to realize that an eclipse lasts moments until the Sun comes back as radiant as ever, bathing the world with its warmth! (Please?)
posted by gladly at 7:14 AM on August 24, 2017 [51 favorites]


I feel like Colonial Williamsburg already has this covered.

Wait, really? I thought they were just Revolutionary-War era stuff, like, yay agrarian rebellion! Are they secretly full of bees?
posted by corb at 7:14 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


"And yet the spicy meme of a white man eclipsing a black man stands."
I wish that meme fit. In the most recent eclipse the moon, symbol of lunacy and werewolves and clammy, unsavory things that shrink from the light of day (and, thus, an excellent symbol for Trump), briefly slid in front of and blocked for two minutes the sun, symbol of life and light and goodness and, thus, the actual symbol of Obama. Naturally people were freaked, but then the sun came back.

"Stone Mountain, anyone?"
No, ship all that crap to TX and the associated horde of freaks with it. Let TX secede like they've been screaming to and Trump can be its king. They can build a great wall along their southern border and enslave people and grow cotton and mine coal and drill baby drill, and we can make Puerto Rico a state to replace TX. Then Mexico can invade and take the territory back and Trump can live out the rest of his days in a Mexican jail. [FAKE, facetious, I'm not trying to seriously suggest we do this; I live in FL and after every election people suggest simply cutting it off and letting it float away. This is unfair: Florida is a nice place with many nice people who fight valiantly every single time and get gerrymandered half to death every single time and then yelled at by the rest of the country. Obvy no single state can absorb all the racism; dealing with evil is a federal problem. We have to build a museum on the national mall and stuff all of it in there.]
posted by Don Pepino at 7:15 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I will not let this slander stand. Mulvaney absolutely cares about whether people reeive government services. He is very against it.

Touché.
posted by Talez at 7:17 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


The best thing about all Trump Obama memes is that it's impossible to find bad pictures of Obama and impossible to find good pictures of Trump, so they all end up looking just like that one--a jackolantern clown juxtaposed against a John-Hamm-level hottie.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:24 AM on August 24, 2017 [43 favorites]


"Wait, really? I thought they were just Revolutionary-War era stuff, like, yay agrarian rebellion! Are they secretly full of bees?"

They used to basically ignore the slavery's role in the founding of the country, but they've improved greatly in the last decade or so, with the reconstruction of a plantation focused on telling the story of how agriculture worked (i.e., on the backs of slaves), refocusing some of the historic houses to tell the lives of servants and slaves there (not just random unimportant wealthy people -- the important wealthy people still tend to be the focus of those houses), and devoting considerable research to the history and lives of individual slaves who lived there. They've also expanded their offerings on relations with Native Americans in the era.

It used to be easy to go and come away with the idea that the war was all about heroic white people in favor of freedom who did nothing wrong, in the middle of slave country in Virginia. The casual visitor can no longer come away with that impression because they've done a much better job integrating stories of oppression into the museum, but the determined racist could probably still manage it. How you feel about the place in general these days probably depends on your sophistication as a consumer of museums and your tolerance for works-in-progress with tricky pasts, in terms of social justice.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:28 AM on August 24, 2017 [33 favorites]


See, this is why I like reenacting the Golden Age of Piracy. Sure, pirates were violent thieves and murderers, but they weren't slavers.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:36 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe take one of those abandoned exurban shopping malls and turn it into the equivalent of the yards full of concrete Lenins and Stalins that abound in the former USSR. Call it the “Museum of Historical Statuary” or the “Civil War History Park” or something.

Stone Mountain, anyone? It's already a tourist draw and people are fretting about how to take it down. Ship the Confederate monuments there instead, turn it into a theme park, spin it so it's like "now all y'all can see your heroes all in one place rather than having only these monuments in the mountain to look at".


As someone who grew up in the Atlanta area, I find Stone Mountain Park to be an interesting place to think about. Obviously, you've got the three racist traitors carved into the mountain and there are all sorts of other Confederate themed things in the park like roads named after Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis. But, overall, metropolitan Atlanta is a pretty diverse place and the town of Stone Mountain itself is largely African-American.

So you tend to get crowds at the park that would make any Confederate general blanch. I'm 100% in favor of sandblasting those motherfuckers off that rock and replacing them with a monument to Outkast. But there is something about the sight of an extended family of people of, say, South Asian descent enjoying a picnic on the lawn while those three dead Confederates mutely look on that almost seems like a greater rebuke of white supremacy.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 7:38 AM on August 24, 2017 [18 favorites]


Eyebrows McGee: Really truly, thank you for the well-presented acknowledgment of some of the recent shifts that have taken place in the park -- unfortunately the everyday living that happens in the surrounds is still very much characterized by moneyed (& sometimes less-moneyed) white folks being overtly and covertly terrible to the (almost exclusively) POC who staff the hotels, restaurants, & other businesses that function as CW's support structure.
posted by sutureselves at 7:44 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]





Just did some reading. It's history morning I guess. I didn't know that the main initial creator and sculptor of both Stone Mountain and Mt Rushmore were the same guy, John Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum. Great 20th cen. sculpter AND and a relatively high ranking member of the KKK. Yeesh. Painful history wrangling indeed.
posted by Jalliah at 7:49 AM on August 24, 2017 [36 favorites]


"unfortunately the everyday living that happens in the surrounds is still very much characterized by moneyed (& sometimes less-moneyed) white folks being overtly and covertly terrible to the (almost exclusively) POC who staff the hotels, restaurants, & other businesses that function as CW's support structure."

Yeah, that part is really problematic and made me very uncomfortable. The part where it has roots as an amusement park (as well as a Serious Museum) makes some people feel a lot more comfortable being dickheads than they would be at a marble-temple-style Serious Museum. It draws a broader crowd than a traditional Serious Museum, which in a lot of ways is to the good because it's exposing people to these more complicated narratives of freedom and oppression who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to them, but there are also people there solely for the amusement park aspects and determined to be noisy jackasses and actively and loudly and vociferously complain about anything that challenges their lazy White Savior Founding Father mental narrative.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


See, this is why I like reenacting the Golden Age of Piracy. Sure, pirates were violent thieves and murderers, but they weren't slavers.

Jean Lafitte, using piracy to exploit loopholes in the law banning the slave trade, is holding for you on line 1.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:06 AM on August 24, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm astonished that people are still making the case that confederate statues should be preserved in a museum. These aren't historical artifacts, they're the jingoistic equivalent of a desiccated and fully trimmed Christmas tree that's been left on the curb for 100 years just to piss off the Jewish neighbors. The history is already painfully well documented, and we lose nothing by tossing this tacky ephemera into the dumpster of history.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:12 AM on August 24, 2017 [84 favorites]



IIRC, Stone Mountain was mentioned in the prologue of some 1990s roleplaying sourcebook (Vampire perhaps?), with the author rhapsodising about it being a magical place to retreat to to be alone with his thoughts or something.


White Wolf was definitely headquartered in Stone Mountain, GA back in the day. Southern, white, left-libertarian nerds explains a lot of things (ahem WOD: Gypsies).
posted by khaibit at 8:20 AM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm astonished that people are still making the case that confederate statues should be preserved in a museum.

It's simply a compromise solution to overcome the "but they're history" argument and get the statues out of public spaces. Besides, 99% of these statues museums are going to be left in storage.
posted by papercrane at 8:21 AM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


But now I'm even more confused by Trump's tweet, which blames Democrats for holding up the debt limit increase

In the Phoenix re-election campaign rally, and previously, Trump has been saying that the Democrats do nothing but obstruct, since they didn't even have one vote for really great health care. This is just more of the same.
posted by thelonius at 8:23 AM on August 24, 2017


Trump Calls [INSERT ISSUE HERE] a National Emergency But Still Hasn’t Made It Official

I just assume that every news organization in the county has this hotkeyed.
posted by Etrigan at 8:23 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bob Menendez and Constitutional Hardball
Here’s the thing. Even if he’s convicted, until Chris Christie is out of office:
  • Menendez should not resign.
  • Democrats should not vote for him to be expelled.
Allowing Menendez to be replaced by a lame-duck governor would be contrary to the interests of democracy, and tens of millions of people shouldn’t have their access to healthcare threatened because Menendez is an asshole. And if Mitch McConnell wants to complain about the Destruction of Senate Norms, just hold up pictures of Merrick Garland.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2017 [47 favorites]


This is just more of the same.

By which I mean, outright lies.
posted by thelonius at 8:26 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm astonished that people are still making the case that confederate statues should be preserved in a museum. These aren't historical artifacts, they're the jingoistic equivalent of a desiccated and fully trimmed Christmas tree that's been left on the curb for 100 years just to piss off the Jewish neighbors. The history is already painfully well documented, and we lose nothing by tossing this tacky ephemera into the dumpster of history...

except the best branding opportunity for Disney in a century. The podiums are wasted advertising space, and Disney could replace every single one with Mickey or Minnie or Goofy doing something innocuous. Just fund a removal and the installation of your own [Chuck E. Cheese./etc.]. Or monuments with names like "The Aquaman of Reconciliation", "The Carpetbagging Batman", and of course less obvious but sponsored community pieces with names like "Lays McBoatface".

The same would also be awesome by Nintendo, Bethesda, etc.
posted by saysthis at 8:30 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jean Lafitte, using piracy to exploit loopholes in the law banning the slave trade, is holding for you on line 1.

Lafitte was A) an asshole, and B) French.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Way upstream, but reading and re-reading the Daily Beast recap of Mueller's team by Betsy Woodruff that chris24 posted is my new self-soothing ritual:
Weissmann generated enormous anger for the hardball tactics he used when he ran the Enron probe—especially his prosecution of the accounting firm Arthur Andersen, which resulted in more than 20,000 people losing their jobs and zero convictions. One prominent white collar defense attorney vowed that Weissmann would never work in private practice because he was so despised over the Andersen case. Despite that, Weissmann made a pit stop at the private firm Jenner & Block for a few years before returning to the FBI.
and
Numerous Washington lawyers said he knows more about U.S. criminal law than anyone else on the planet. One attorney described him as “a demigod of the legal world, respected and feared by everyone in the realm of criminal law.”
and
“If I were hand-picking a team of the very best lawyers in the nation, regardless of whatever the issues in a case may be, both [Prelogar and Dreeben] would be at the top of the list,” he added, “and I know that sentiment is shared by both Republican and Democratic lawyers alike.”
and
The New Yorker profiled her earlier this year because she has successfully prosecuted 13 terrorism suspects, according to the magazine, and has yet to lose in court.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:38 AM on August 24, 2017 [41 favorites]


Lafitte was A) an asshole, and B) French.

Sorry. Jean Lafitte attend le téléphone pour vous.

[I'll stop now.]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:40 AM on August 24, 2017 [23 favorites]


> where the compromise is 'let's agree to let professionals weigh the value of each of these statues, with input from communities, and preserve a small minority, if any' and not 'let's agree to preserve all of these statues and turn them into a burden for museums across the country.'

I mentioned this over in the Charlottesville thread, but because these men were traitors who took up arms against our nation, and because so much effort has been expended glorifying them, I don't think the decision of how to treat them is best left to "communities" but to the nation as a whole. Your compromise lets the communities that still support the Lost Cause myth (or fringe elements within those communities who can exert pressure on curators and potentially provide quid-pro-quo donations to ensure the statues are preserved and prominently placed) continue to glorify these awful men. Museum curators aren't free of their own biases, nor are they immune to pressure from interests within their communities.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 AM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump eclipsing Obama: like the solar eclipse, a smaller body, confined to orbiting a relatively tiny sphere of influence, momentarily obscures a brilliant source of energy that's much more vital to the world's survival. It hurts like hell to watch it happen, but once it's over you don't have to deal with it again for a long, long time.

Do I have the astronomy facts right on the way an eclipse works?
posted by Rykey at 8:50 AM on August 24, 2017 [46 favorites]


Lafitte was A) an asshole, and B) French.

I'm
French! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent?!?
posted by petebest at 8:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Best thing about the whole statue debacle is that at least now the cries of LOCK HER UP can be countered with MELT THEM DOWN.

Because you don't bring an argument to a three syllable slogan fight.
posted by flabdablet at 8:59 AM on August 24, 2017 [29 favorites]


how about we bury the confederate statues like that terracotta army in China and they can make themselves useful by doing battle for us in the underworld

they'll be preserved for history and nobody has to fuckin look at them. win/win
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:00 AM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm French! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent?!?

If you were really French you'd say accent outrageous in that ridiculous manner of putting adjectives after nouns.
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Respectfully, it does not: if we simply removed and melted every pro-Confederate statue, fringe elements and rich individuals (the Kochs and Mercers of the world) would still be exactly as able to pressure curators as if we left those statues standing, or if we removed them and shipped them off to museums.

...but... like... they wouldn't have the statues.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:11 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


So the guy Trump retweeted the Obama Eclipse from? Shockingly an anti-semitic, racist, bigoted far right conspiracy theorist who just 4 days ago tweeted that he didn't want Jews in his neighborhood.
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2017 [56 favorites]


That's the monument they deserve.

Well... it's a start.
posted by Etrigan at 9:15 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


(To be clear, I'm not speaking in terms of pragmatic decision making here. Forget the sketchy polling, as this wouldn't be a national referendum anyway, but an act of the federal government. I am well aware that this federal government is not going to wrestle local control of historical artifacts away from local communities. I'm speaking about my minimal acceptable terms for a compromise.)
posted by tonycpsu at 9:18 AM on August 24, 2017


America is a nation of hoarders, and we like to pay other people to store stuff we don't have room for/really care about but can't bear to get rid of.

So what I'm saying is, stick 'em in a giant warehouse, and anybody who wants to come see them pays a small fee for a guy to unlock the door and invite them to look around, and then America can rest easy knowing it didn't throw out some useless garbage.

Conversely, if the Daughters of the Confederacy and their buds want to donate some private property and run a park full of these things, fine. They can pay for the upkeep/storage.
posted by emjaybee at 9:18 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Way upstream, but reading and re-reading the Daily Beast recap of Mueller's team by Betsy Woodruff that chris24 posted is my new self-soothing ritual:

Can we have a metatalk thread where we really just let loose with our wildest Trump-Russia fantasies?

Because sometimes I read something like this:

If you're prone to setting up corkboards with red string, you'd see a line of connections between Dearborn, Carter Page, and Sessions*. The "WV" detail of the email to Dearborn about hooking up Trump's campaign with Putin could reference the West Virginia governor, Jim Justice, who sold an empty coal mine to a Russian mining conglomerate for like half a billion dollars and bought it back for $5 million. The same guy who switched to the Republican Party at a Trump rally.

...and I think, JFC, this could be one of those things where there is going to be a nursery rhyme about Trump that kids are still singing in, like, five hundred years.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 9:26 AM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]




Can we have a metatalk thread where we really just let loose with our wildest Trump-Russia fantasies?

YES THIS I WANT THIS

Please please please please please PLEASE? Is this an appropriate use of MetaTalk? I want a Treasongate cork board catchall Meta SO BADLY, I will even try to construct one if it has the blessings of the mods
posted by schadenfrau at 9:39 AM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


There once was a man named Trump
Who said he lived in a dump
And while he was resident
He sucked as a president
So we kicked him out on his rump.

There you go, kids.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on August 24, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trumpty Dumpty promised a wall
Trumpty Dumpty had a great fall
The Kremlin owned all of the President's men
They never will get out of prison again
posted by uosuaq at 9:44 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think wild Trump-Russia fantasies and limericks both fit just fine in the fucking fuck thread. After all, it's all about blowing off steam, no matter how you do it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:49 AM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Kind of a devastating review: Trump's $3m White House redesign? It's as drab as a downmarket hotel

at least it's not 1980s druglord like most of his properties
posted by entropicamericana at 9:55 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Kind of a devastating review: Trump's $3m White House redesign? It's as drab as a downmarket hotel

Those eagle statues though, meant to intimidate people in the room. Trump's eagle experience must have left a mark.
posted by bonje at 10:05 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


But---that is because trump needs to harvest their blood and stem cells for his secret fountain of youth program.

This sounds more like a Bannon initiative.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:09 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Burhanistan:
"that is because trump needs to harvest their blood and stem cells for his secret fountain of youth program."
If Trump has a Fountain of Youth it certainly isn't very good.
posted by charred husk at 10:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


AP: Zinke says he won’t recommend reducing any national monuments
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke told the Associated Press that he will not recommend that President Trump eliminate any national monuments but might recommend changes to a “handful,” as part of an unprecedented review more than two dozen monuments created by previous presidents.

It was unclear Thursday whether these include any of the five monuments under review in California. The White House has not said yet whether or when the report will be made public.

Zinke told The Associated Press that unspecified boundary adjustments for some monuments designated over the past four decades will be included in his recommendations he planned to give the president on Thursday. None of the sites would revert to new ownership, he said, while public access for uses such as hunting, fishing or grazing would be maintained or restored.

He did not specify which monuments would be recommended for alteration.
This, along with "Trump Calls Opioid Crisis a National Emergency But Still Hasn’t Made It Official" fits in nicely with a good story The Intercept did yesterday: Trump’s Inability To Hit His Own Deadlines is Becoming Darkly Comical, in which Trump signs executive orders and agencies often ignore the deadlines (the national monument decision was due today and Zinke spent last week on vacation, no doubt working really hard on this decision to blow off eliminating monuments).
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump's $3m White House redesign? It's as drab as a downmarket hotel

Ha, they replaced some steps, like he'll be able to use them.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Hey guys, if you want to have a meta discussion about appropriate locations for other meta discussions of the Present Crisis, take that to MeTa!
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:13 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


I've advocated for the "statues to a museum" solution in the past; another thing to consider is that museum curators would be able to properly contextualize them.

For example: I'mma use the Maryland Historical Society Museum, simply because I was most recently there. Say you're wandering around in there, looking at things like a sample of the dresses people wore in 1810 or the exact manuscript of the Star-Spangled Banner or whatever. You turn a corner - and there's a statue of Robert E. Lee.

You could, at this point, snort and turn away. But! If you instead go up to the statue and read the little sign next to it, then you might see something like:
STATUE OF ROBERT E. LEE
(Bronze, est. 1910; artist unknown)

This statue was first placed at [insert name of park here] in 1910, as part of a statuary drive spearheaded by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. At that time, there was growing national tension over racial inequality; the same year this statue was erected, the NAACP was formed. There is evidence that this movement was meant to intimidate the then-newborn civil rights movement into submission, while simultaneously revising the narrative of the Confederacy as a romantic "lost cause" notion. The bulk of all such statues came from a single statuary firm based in New Jersey, and were favored by the UDC precisely becuase they could be purchased cheaply and produced quickly.

As the Civil Rights movement made further advances in this country, such monuments lost popularity. Finally, in the final years of the administration of President Barack Obama (our nation's first African-American president), activists started campaigning to remove statuary and flags commemorating the Confederacy from public places.

At present, there are only a handful of locations where such statues still stand; most have been removed.
I dunno about you, but I'd LOOOOVE to see something like that. Possibly even with more subtle snark.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:23 AM on August 24, 2017 [44 favorites]


AP: Zinke says he won’t recommend reducing any national monuments...

...He did not specify which monuments would be recommended for alteration.


Odds are he's going to recommend Bears Ears be shrunk, possibly to as little as 160,000 acres, and Grand Staircase-Escalante, possibly down by three-quarters. Utah lawmakers have had these two in their sights for as long as they've existed. They want coal mining and oil drilling, and these places are treasures. He already has said he's going to recommend Bears Ears to be downsized. Meanwhile, there were literally millions of comments during the public comment period, almost all of which were in favor of leaving the monuments as is. So they're working on just ignoring that (in the initial Bears Ears "assessment" they pretty much dismissed the comments, saying they were "mixed" which was not the case at all.) Whether or not any downsizing survives a court challenge is yet to be seen. I would think that the admin would lose a court case on that, but I wouldn't bet my house on it.
posted by azpenguin at 10:25 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


"The history is already painfully well documented, and we lose nothing by tossing this tacky ephemera into the dumpster of history."

The history of the backlash isn't well documented, and the authors of the narrative of the backlash are deliberately obscuring and constantly shifting that narrative. We have people asking "why now?" because they assume that these things have been standing in public squares all over the country since Sherman's march. Everyone should know when the statues were erected and by whom, and what the statues actually meant and mean. Everyone should understand the motivation behind the erection of the statues and the motivation behind "heritage, not hate." UDC et al. put these things up in the 20s for the same reason the two Beckies wore MAGA hats to the Howard cafeteria last week, namely to mock and intimidate. The organizations that put these things up benefit from historical ignorance. They are dodging responsibility for racist graffiti they splashed all over the country and kept there for 80 or 90 years. Whenever an organization that stuck up a hooray-for-the-KKK statue still exists, that organization should be called upon to get its statue off public property and preserve it in a manner that does not obscure its meaning. No passing the buck to taxpayers for removal costs and no melting down your R.E.Lee to make American flag pins or whatever, you put up a plaque explaining the thing. The thing, and what you did and why and the harm it caused.

"We've always been pissed that we lost the war, true, but in 1909 when we ordered this statue of the notorious traitor Jefferson Davis, we were motivated by a desire to avoid feeling shame about lynchings we had committed. Northern newspapers had published stories about our lynchings of black citizens of Yoknapatawpha County. We erected this statue of a traitor to the United States on the Yoknapatawpha county courthouse lawn to let black people in Yoknapatawpha know we weren't going to stop killing them and that they must not resist us. The statue was intended to mock, hurt, and terrify black people, Jewish people, Catholics, and anyone else we hated. Ever since 1909, the statue has stood in the public square, implying that in Yoknapatawpha people who are not white are not full citizens and that, in Yoknapatawpha, it would be as if the South had won the Civil War. In fact, we did not. We did not win the Civil War. We lost the Civil War. We lost. We are not the daughters of the confederacy because the confederacy was not a thing because we lost the Civil War. The South lost the Civil War. We are merely the descendants of the losers of the Civil War, and in the eclipse light in August 2017, at long last, we awoke to that fact and realized that the loss of the war was not the shameful part, that the fighting of the war was not the noble part, and that what was good in us and noble was in fact obscured to us and could not be seen and could not be realized because we had spent long lifetimes remembering false rememberings and casting lies in zinc.

In 2017 at the urging of all the other people in Yoknapatawpha County, the state of Mississippi, the other United States, the rest of the world, and the people who were floating around in orbit around the Earth, and in partial payment of our debt to our beloved country, we moved this contemptible celebration of a traitor to that country, this proof of our 100-year battle to hang on to unearned privilege and deny civil liberties to non-white people, we moved, I say we moved this hunk of zinc off the courthouse lawn and onto our own. Today the United Descendants of the Losers of the Civil War organizes the Battle of Yaoknapatawpha bake sale every year on July the 19th. Proceeds benefit the NAACP and the SPLC. Come on down to the fairgrounds and bring a cobbler or two. No dogs or alcohol."
posted by Don Pepino at 10:27 AM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


An extremely boring map from the Kaiser Family Foundation with an important conclusion: there are now zero counties at risk for having no insurers on the exchanges next year. Anytime you hear a Republican talking now about how there are places people can't even get insurance because insurance companies won't cover them, it's a lie.

Fun fact: the last county to be covered, Paulding County, Ohio, was part of the Great Black Swamp. They've got insurance and the swamp has been drained.

The story is paywalled, but you can get the gist here from Eric Geller (who, fun fact, looks exactly like he should be Rod Rosenstein's son): members of the White House Infrastructure Council have resigned, "citing Trump's 'insufficient' attention to cyber threats." In particular, they "say Trump pays too little attention to cyber threats 'impacting the systems supporting our democratic election process.'" So that's horrifying.

Daily Beast, Lachlan, Lobbyist Hopes Trump’s Dead Uncle Wins Him White House Favor. In which Michael Caputo has jumped into the swamp as a lobbyist and hopes that the memory of Trump's late inventor uncle, John Trump, will make Trump look fondly on the patent system and do his client's bidding.

More WSJ leaks: @grynbaum"I’m told WSJ's Gerard Baker talked Trump coverage on editors’ call today & said “assertion of challengeable contentions” was not analysis." Isn't that, by definition, what analysis is?

In which Roger Stone is chased down by TMZ in a baggage claim (that, in and of itself, is completely WTF-worthy) and threatens the lives of members of Congress:
He added, warning: "Try to impeach him. Just try it. You will have a spasm of violence --an insurrection-- in this country like you have never seen before... Both sides are heavily armed, my friend."

"This is not 1974," Stone, who worked in the White House during Nixon's resignation, added. "People will not stand for [impeachment of President Trump]. Any politician who votes for it would be endangering their own life."

He explained: "There will be violence on both sides. Let me make this clear: "I'm not advocating violence, I am predicting [violence]."

Asked if he is saying that Trump's removal from office would lead to a Civil War, Stone said: "Yes, that is what I think will happen."
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on August 24, 2017 [54 favorites]


Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and maybe a couple other states all have state laws that prohibit local communities from removing Confederate monuments on their own initiative. Several of these laws are very recent, because all state legislatures are assholes.

Your problem isn't with the local communities. It's, as always, with the state governments (well, and the overarching current federal problem).
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:34 AM on August 24, 2017 [27 favorites]


Guess what happened one month ago today.

Sean Spicer Resigns as Anthony Scaramucci Becomes New Communications Director

So tired. So very, very tired.
posted by vverse23 at 10:35 AM on August 24, 2017 [62 favorites]


i love how people like roger stone somehow assume they are immune from mob violence in a destabilized country

EVER HEARD OF LOUIS THE XVI MOTHERFUCKER
posted by entropicamericana at 10:37 AM on August 24, 2017 [31 favorites]


He really is the shittiest Babadook.
posted by Artw at 10:39 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


i love how people like roger stone somehow assume they are immune from mob violence in a destabilized country

I was just starting to type out what is likely to happen to Roger Stone in a Civil War and then I remembered four years ago, the more idyllic time, where we could be reasonably sure that everyone was just being hyperbolic about mob violence.

I'll be over in the corner sobbing.
posted by corb at 10:40 AM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


Remember when Stephen Miller went apeshit on Jim Acosta in a press briefing? That was 3 weeks ago. In a little less than an hour, we're getting the first briefing since then.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:42 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Several of these laws are very recent, because all state legislatures are assholes.

The NC one was passed specifically in response to a growing movement to remove the one at UNC- Chapel Hill.
posted by thelonius at 10:42 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'd say that most of the 2nd amendment nutters would act firmly in defense of tyranny, but then we've had recent events like the baseball grounds shootings so who knows anymore,

Anything they kick off is not going to be good for anybody, lets hope they're over-rated.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Have we not talked about Valerie Wilson's (yes, that Valarie Plame Wilson) GoFundMe to raise a billion dollars to buy a controlling stake of Twitter and ban Trump? Because it's 2017 and, inexplicably, all those words make perfect sense in that order somehow.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on August 24, 2017 [57 favorites]


I'd say that most of the 2nd amendment nutters would act firmly in defense of tyranny

wait are you saying snark alone may not be an effective defense against fascism?! how come nobody warned me
posted by entropicamericana at 10:48 AM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


It would cost more like 20 billion dollars to buy Twitter.
posted by Justinian at 10:50 AM on August 24, 2017


raise a billion dollars to buy a controlling stake of Twitter and ban Trump?

Probably not enough money but also please just shut the whole thing down not just trump. I'd donate to that.
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


The history of the backlash isn't well documented

Is there a good book about rise of the Daughters of the Confederacy, etc., their political strategies and back-room deals? Sounds like it could be a good read.
posted by Coventry at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Have we not talked about Valerie Wilson's (yes, that Valarie Plame Wilson) GoFundMe to raise a billion dollars to buy a controlling stake of Twitter and ban Trump?

Donated, shared on Facebook with friends.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:54 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


It would cost more like 20 billion dollars to buy Twitter.

12B at current stock prices, but you don't need 100% of the stock in order to control the company.

As cjelli says, this is basically a viral fundraising effort for Global Zero. Even if they did raise enough cash to be able to force a vote on deleting Trump's account, they don't say what they'll do with the stocks after that. Those shares would still have value, so I would expect some sort of plan outlined. I assume it would end up just being a well-funded endowment for Global Zero.
posted by papercrane at 10:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I had a thought that buying Reddit and shutting it down would go even further to nip this shit in the bud. Buying Twitter might silence some mature rabble-rousers, but buying Reddit would eliminate a source of radicalization for millions.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:59 AM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Not a lot to be done about the Chans.
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


12B at current stock prices, but you don't need 100% of the stock in order to control the company.

True, but once you start buying up shares to get a controlling stake the stock price would surge upwards.
posted by Justinian at 11:02 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Politico, Eliana Johnson and Nancy Cook, Kelly moves to control the information Trump sees
Confronted with a West Wing that treated policymaking as a free-for-all, President Donald Trump’s chief of staff, John Kelly, is instituting a system used by previous administrations to limit internal competition — and to make himself the last word on the material that crosses the president’s desk.

It’s a quiet effort to make Trump conform to White House decision-making norms he’s flouted without making him feel shackled or out of the loop. In a conference call last week, Kelly initiated a new policymaking process in which just he and one other aide — White House staff secretary Rob Porter, a little-known but highly regarded Rhodes scholar who overlapped with Jared Kushner as an undergraduate at Harvard — will review all documents that cross the Resolute desk.
...
Since taking over for Priebus last month, Kelly has sought to crack down not just on sneakiness and backbiting but also to impose order more broadly. He has tasked deputy chiefs of staff Rick Dearborn and Joe Hagin with bringing some order to the president’s schedule, pushing them to plan events further in advance and to include one public-facing event each day and one travel event each week, according to a senior White House aide.

He is also reworking what were once free-flowing White House meetings. Each one now includes a list of attendees to prevent aides from inserting themselves gratuitously where Kelly does not want them. Said a top White House aide: “If you’re not on the list, you can’t get into the meeting.”
Of course, none of it matters because Trump spends all night and every weekend talking to random people on the phone and watching cable, and based on today's Twitter rants, none of it seems to be having any effect.

Why?

If you haven't read about how TMZ has become one of the biggest stars of the pro-Trump media empire, it's worth it. They're everywhere.
posted by zachlipton at 11:04 AM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]


For anyone who is still interested in the police response in Phoenix, this is the clearest and best video I've seen yet. Er, obviously, it contains police violence.
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:24 AM on August 24, 2017 [14 favorites]


Like Trump has ever read a policy document. Is Kelly going to seise control of Fox and Friends?
posted by Artw at 11:26 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Politico: White House Rapid Response Director Is Out: "Andy Hemming left his job on Monday as the White House director of rapid response, according to multiple sources. A source familiar with the move told us it was a 'mutually agreed upon' separation, and Hemming now plans to take a vacation (in which golf may play a big part) and then explore future opportunities.

"Right before his departure, he was profiled by Annie Karni as the staffer the White House pays '$89,000 a year to spot and distribute positive stories from the mainstream media.'"

Clearly, there are no longer enough positive news stories about Trump to justify his position. See also: Rats, sinking ship.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:29 AM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


Politico, Eliana Johnson and Nancy Cook, Kelly moves to control the information Trump sees

It won't last. Kelly knows this. This is a bog-standard arrangement in the military: the commander plays the nice guy, so the executive officer (or other second-in-command, i.e. chief of staff or platoon sergeant) is an asshole. The problem is that the CO and XO in these situations know what they're doing and are cool with the arrangement. Not only does it free up the CO to concentrate on external things and the truly important internal things, but the CO and XO coordinate very closely to make sure that when someone in the unit really needs to get hammered, the CO doesn't get involved at all, but when a lighter touch is needed, the CO always manages to insert himself to be Good Guy CO. (On occasion, the CO will "wander" into a situation, and the XO will "ask" him to let the XO handle it. The CO will appear to think about it and warn the XO to be nice or somesuch, but they've already choreographed it. This is done to remind people of the XO's authority.)

Trump is not going to be able to stop inserting himself in things, because someone's going to leak something to Fox and Friends because they want to get it around Kelly, and you can't actually tell the CO "Sir, I got this. Let me handle it." if the CO isn't in on the plan, because you just directly challenged his authority.

It won't last. Kelly knows this.
posted by Etrigan at 11:30 AM on August 24, 2017 [48 favorites]


White House Rapid Response Director Is Out:

Oh, from the title I thought he might be something to do with managing incoming natural disasters or something. Guess not.
posted by Artw at 11:32 AM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Not a lot to be done about the Chans.

though there is something to be said for Donald Trump's online presence being limited to 4chan -- maybe give him his own board: http://boards.4chan.org/rdt/
posted by philip-random at 11:32 AM on August 24, 2017


there is something to be said for Donald Trump's online presence being limited to 4chan

He would literally die of terminal narcissism deprivation if all his textual diarrhea was forced to be posted as 'Anonymous'.
posted by Freon at 11:35 AM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


NY Times has the White House's reaction to the fundraiser:

Her ridiculous attempt to shut down his first amendment is the only clear violation and expression of hate and intolerance in this equation

His "first amendment"? Is Donald Trump a document? This is something an 8th grade student would write.
posted by papercrane at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2017 [24 favorites]


Meanwhile, the twirly thing headed toward Texas is projected to become a possible Cat 3 at landfall.

The DingDong brigade will probably blame it on pesky nerdy weather science people at NOAA.
posted by yoga at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Jalliah: I didn't know that the main initial creator and sculptor of both Stone Mountain and Mt Rushmore were the same guy, John Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum. Great 20th cen. sculpter AND and a relatively high ranking member of the KKK.

He crafted a number of notable memorials. And in another tenuous connection to Rushmore: John Houser, the son of a sculptor who worked on Mount Rushmore, wanted to craft a 36-foot bronze equestrian statue of a Don Juan de Oñate, the Spanish colonizer who founded the first European settlements in the Southwestern United States, and envisioned it one day towering over the border between the United States and Mexico "with the power of the Statue of Liberty." (Ginger Thompson for the New York Times, Jan. 17, 2002)

Except instead of lifting a lamp beside the golden door, he could hold high the severed foot of a warrior from Acoma.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:38 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]




If people want to give to Global Zero, fine, but doing so as part of a plan to buy a controlling share of Twitter just to ban the President sounds like a stupid idea. It's gotta be performance art, right? Or a dramatic way to draw attention to the mission of Global Zero?

Just tell me no one is actually donating money because they seriously think Global Zero is ever going to own a billion-plus-dollar controlling share in Twitter.
posted by darkstar at 11:42 AM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Carter Page

I have huge gaps in my knowledge of American politics. I just realised that when I hear this gentleman's name, I imagine him as "The guy who hires Sam Spade to find his errant wife, off on a lost weekend somewhere" - double-breasted pinstripe suit, slick-back hair, wire-frame glasses, nervous disposition or possibly a testy middle-aged banker. I don't know how accurate that is.
posted by Grangousier at 11:42 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Great 20th cen. sculpter AND and a relatively high ranking member of the KKK. Yeesh. Painful history wrangling indeed.

I study and teach history, and it's a fucking mess. It is milkshake ducks all the way down.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:44 AM on August 24, 2017 [52 favorites]


Now, given what happened with Bush, you'd think they'd want to have an extra good response in place for the swirly thing. Um.

I hope Texas is good at looking after itself and whatever was set up by previous administrations hasn't been too far erroded yet.
posted by Artw at 11:47 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Now, given what happened with Bush, you'd think they'd want to have an extra good response in place for the swirly thing. Um.

Hahahahahahahahahahohohoheeheehee
posted by Melismata at 11:49 AM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Why Trumpkins keep retweeting photos of a Cleveland Cavs' victory celebration after every Trump rally.
posted by adamg at 11:51 AM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


TRUMP: I like cities that don't get hit by hurricanes.

fake, for now.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would actually anticipate that private citizens are going to be significantly better prepared for a Gulf Coast hurricane, having lived through Katrina.

I would also expect FEMA and state agencies to be better prepared, as well, but a lot of that depends on leadership. I'm sure it comes as sad news to Texans that Michael Brown is no longer available to lend his extensive disaster preparedness and response expertise.
posted by darkstar at 11:52 AM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was just listening to a podcast-totally-unrelated-to-politics from several years ago and the hosts went on a few minutes long digression into how 4chan and violent gaming are really awesome outlets for male aggression that don't bleed over into the real world ever and in fact probably help the world because dudes release all their angst there and then are able to be normal functioning humans irl and leave all that aggression and grievance behind on the computerbox.

And then I listened to another podcast (current-politics-related) where they were talking about that feeling where you're screaming about a thing and everyone is like, "Shut up, you're wrong about everything, you're double-wrong about this" and then it turns out you were right.*

[Cassandra feeling intensifies]


*It was in the context of people who are legit stopped clocks, but the validity of that feeling remains
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:55 AM on August 24, 2017 [24 favorites]


Maybe Kelly can adapt the President Daily Brief into picture book form. Maybe with sock puppets to dramatize the boring parts. I bet Trump would pay attention to that.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know this is the least important and most petty of grievances, but the fact that this administration always starts its press briefings 30+ minutes late ranks surprisingly high on my list of things about Trump that outrage me. It's just this ridiculously passive-aggressive contemptuous insult. Sanders' entire job is to brief the press, and she can't be bothered to show up on time.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2017 [37 favorites]


I would also expect FEMA and state agencies to be better prepared, as well, but a lot of that depends on leadership. I'm sure it comes as sad news to Texans that Michael Brown is no longer available to lend his extensive disaster preparedness and response expertise.

Hahahahahahahahahahohohoheeheehee
posted by Melismata at 11:56 AM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


The thread seems to have moved on but re: Chao I would just want to say that Cabinet officials are the only people who shouldn't resign; we need their votes in the event of a 25 Amendment scenario. Everyone else of conscience who works for the administration should sabotage or resign of course but Cabinet members are a special case.
posted by gerryblog at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


The 25th Amendment scenario is a pipe dream, we should let it go.
posted by Justinian at 11:59 AM on August 24, 2017 [17 favorites]


thelonius: Right, I suppose he thinks he can force funding for his wall by threatening to veto spending bills?
There is legitimate concern on Capitol Hill over a shutdown. What's different this time is in the past, those shutdown threats came from Congress. It wasn't clear if Congress could pass a bill to keep the government open. This time, the concern is that the president won't sign that bill when it gets to his desk because, as he said last night, if that bill does not include money to fund a border wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, he might use that pen to veto that bill. And Republicans are - just have no level of certainty over what the president's going to do. And that makes for a certain amount of apprehension on Capitol Hill.
(Emphasis mine, pullquote from NPR's congressional correspondent Susan Davis yesterday.) Welcome to America in 2017, assholes. Are you ready to impeach him yet?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:00 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sarah Sanders is shaky af today.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:01 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


The 25th Amendment scenario is a pipe dream, we should let it go.

I agree that we seem to be locked into this for the duration but I think it's way more likely that Republicans find themselves willing to say "Donald Trump is a great American who got sick and we honor him for his service" than that they ever pull the trigger on impeachment. We should preserve it as a potential off-ramp.
posted by gerryblog at 12:02 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]



Sarah Sanders is shaky af today.

Well, it's not a job where you always eat on time.
posted by jgirl at 12:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's not like they need any prep time given they just blow everything off anyway.
posted by Artw at 12:04 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Has Hillary Clinton abased herself sufficiently to satisfy her critics? Paul Waldman, The Washington Post
We’re going to be talking about the 2016 election for a long time, because it was one of the most dramatic and consequential in American history, and it brought us President Trump. Which means that reporters are going to continue to receive criticism of their coverage, particularly the way they covered Clinton. Some of them react to that criticism by rattling off things Clinton did wrong, as a way of saying that it isn’t their fault she lost.

So let’s say this really slowly: It’s possible to simultaneously acknowledge that 1) Clinton made plenty of mistakes, and 2) there were egregious problems with the way the campaign was covered, problems that contributed to the outcome. Calling attention to the latter doesn’t negate the former.
And boy, were there ever problems with the coverage
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2017 [81 favorites]


Her ridiculous attempt to shut down his first amendment is the only clear violation and expression of hate and intolerance in this equation

His "first amendment"? Is Donald Trump a document? This is something an 8th grade student would write.


I mean the omission of "right" is like the LEAST idiotic part of that statement. Like I can't even formulate a good joke about what first amendment right a sitting President has that banning him from having a social media account on a privately owned and operated website would violate. Like. I can't make my brain cooperate with the stupidity of invoking the first amendment here. I am upset and worried and angry about many, many qualities of this Administration, but it's this particular combination of unearned smug superiority with complete goddamn incompetent idiocy that reliably sends me into rage paroxysms.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


the press come to the White House to report on the administration and show up early and his press staff can't be bothered to show up on time.

this is how White House (and State Department, for administrations that staff their State Departments) press conferences have always worked, and it is one of the only predictable and normal ways his administration functions. It is in no way remarkable.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2017


> So tired. So very, very tired.

My brian is so tired I just got chris24's name.
posted by guiseroom at 12:12 PM on August 24, 2017 [43 favorites]


Like a one-sentence email that says, "The President is focused on making America great again, not stunt fundraisers on the Internet" would not turn me into a real-life Cathy ack.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:12 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ohoho ... I'm pretty sure there's not much bite here, but what if Trump's downfall came because of lawbreaking in his ridiculously early re-election campaign efforts?
What they have to make sure is that the government is not subsidizing any of the campaign events. They also have to make sure that when government - other government officials are speaking, that they don't violate the Hatch Act which prevents them from doing things in their official capacity to support a candidate. So what they have to do is make sure that they have a hard line between the campaign activities that they do and the Presidential Activities that they do.
Emphasis mine, pullquote from Larry Noble, formerly the general counsel for the Federal Election Commission for 13 years, now with the Campaign Legal Center, speaking on NPR yesterday in a piece titled "A Look At How Trump Is Already Campaigning For 2020, which notes that the Phoenix rally was his eighth, and that Obama was criticized by some for filing on April of 2011 when the election wasn't until 2012.

Larry Noble says he thinks the Hatch Act was probably violated last night in Phoenix when this happened, and that Ben Carson's government title should not have been used in Trump's campaign rally introduction. HUD Spokesman Raffi Williams told NPR that he does not believe the law was broken.

Philip Bump at the Washington Post goes into more detail:
Trump’s team should know better. It should know better because Trump’s social media director ran afoul of the Hatch Act in April when he tweeted a political call to action from his Twitter account. It was his personal account — but since his account identified him as an employee of the administration, it was considered to be a violation. What’s more, Carson’s predecessor at HUD, Julián Castro, was himself found to have violated the act (PDF) when, in April of last year, he indicated during a news interview conducted in the department’s offices that he endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Punishment for a willful violation of the act could include removal of an official from his position. The Office of Special Counsel left punishment for Castro to his boss, President Barack Obama. In this case, it seems unlikely that any punishment would follow from Carson’s appearance, especially if left to Trump.
Well, there goes that avenue for repercussion, but the disconnect between government funding and re-election campaign funding could catch him. Maybe.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:13 PM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Meanwhile: Trump's lawyers are "apparently trying to market themselves as corporate mercenaries willing to abuse the legal system to silence legitimate advocacy work."
Trump's Lawyers Sue Greenpeace Over Dakota Pipeline.
Trump has a vested interest in the pipeline's completion, having invested up to $1 million in ETP, according to disclosure forms related to the 2016 presidential campaign.
posted by adamvasco at 12:13 PM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's particularly annoying in light of the President's constant attacks on the press and his (false) claims that they don't cover things he does, and the relative rarity of his press conferences -- all outrageous on their own, but all the more so because the press come to the White House to report on the administration and show up early and his press staff can't be bothered to show up on time.

I'd just like to point out that it's doubtless not about not bothering, but rather deliberately being late to signal contempt / play stupid power assertion games. Which makes it all the more outrageous, but again, his supporters like it when Trump and his minions "piss off liberals" by showing contempt for the norms of decent behavior we value.
posted by Gelatin at 12:13 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


The last time the government shut down, the Republicans took almost all of the heat for it. And that was when they didn't control every branch of government. If they shut down government now, when they control the House, the Senate and the White House...

...well, I'd almost say it'd be worth it to see it happen, except for all of the people whose lives are actually harmed by such willful malpractice.
posted by darkstar at 12:17 PM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ooh, I just thought of this: what if Trump crumples on his tough-guy demands of no budget without a border wall because he doesn't get to take any more golfing vacations to his properties until the budget is passed? I first thought the lack of budget could curtail his secret service detail, but that will probably operate under "necessary services" or something, but golfing? Fuck you, dude, go golfing on your own dime. And while you're at it, no, the government won't pay your SS detail to stay at your hotels, or ride in your golf carts.

Sadly, it probably won't come down to that, but that's my dream for the day.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


My brian is so tired I just got chris24's name.

I still see peacheater and think "what do they have against peas."
posted by chris24 at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2017 [51 favorites]


Sanders' entire job is to brief the press, and she can't be bothered to show up on time.

Sarah Sanders is shaky af today.

Well, it's not a job where you always eat on time.


Not to defend Sanders, 'cause I find her completely unsympathetic, but given how this White House runs I'm positive the habitual lateness isn't her fault at all. She's almost certainly stuck waiting for her marching orders and/or trying to get contradictory instructions clarified before she goes on camera. She's an incompetent person trying to carry out the instructions of even more incompetent people.


Maybe Kelly can adapt the President Daily Brief into picture book form. Maybe with sock puppets to dramatize the boring parts. I bet Trump would pay attention to that.

I'm in agreement with Etrigan's assessment of the standard CO/XO playbook above, and also that it will not last. Really the thing I keep thinking about with Kelly is the experience of trying to manage an unmanageable classroom: you need a new strategy every goddamn week, because eventually the disruptive kids get the hang of your new strategy and try to fuck it up.

Only instead of a classroom of teenagers with some disrespectful behavior, he's dealing with a malignant 70-year-old bundle of rage and incompetence who holds far more power than anyone should.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:20 PM on August 24, 2017 [14 favorites]


Hurricane Harvey will likely hit Texas as a Cat 3, bad enough, but it's very likely that New Orleans, fresh off another flooding event, will catch much of the rain from the storm. This is shaping up to perhaps be the first real (non self-inflicted) test of the well-oiled machine that is this administration. It doesn't look great, folks.
posted by thebrokedown at 12:21 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


My brian is so tired I just got chris24's name.

O! M! G.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:21 PM on August 24, 2017 [45 favorites]


my brian is pretty tired, too.
posted by exlotuseater at 12:24 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Sanders' attempts to explain their tax reform plan didn't say really anything but Bloomberg has more: GOP Leaders Don’t Expect White House Tax-Plan Details. In short, Congress says there simply won't be a detailed White House tax plan, because that sounds like work and these people don't bother with that, and Congress will figure it out on their own somehow.

Sounds a lot like what they did with health care: make a bunch of noise and then have absolutely nothing to do with the actual policy.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'd just like to point out that it's doubtless not about not bothering, but rather deliberately being late to signal contempt / play stupid power assertion games. Which makes it all the more outrageous, but again, his supporters like it when Trump and his minions "piss off liberals" by showing contempt for the norms of decent behavior we value.

Plus you know when a young black man has any portion of his pants' waist below his belly button, the same crowd is screaming that the end is nigh
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:25 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hurricane Harvey will likely hit Texas as a Cat 3, bad enough, but it's very likely that New Orleans, fresh off another flooding event, will catch much of the rain from the storm. This is shaping up to perhaps be the first real (non self-inflicted) test of the well-oiled machine that is this administration. It doesn't look great, folks.

They're about to see what small government really looks like.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:28 PM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


Here is a link to Zinke's executive summary for the DOI report recommending changes to monuments.

Note the absence of defining features of an executive summary, such as, for example, a summary of what executives should know the report contains. Executives are busy people who lack the time to read a full report. In this case, the executive for whom the summary was prepared is the chief executive of the United States. Ryan Zinke has apparently deemed it unimportant for President Trump to know what actions he recommends taking.

This is reflected in the mealy-mouthed language of the executive summary: "There is no doubt that President Trump has the authority to review and consider recommendations." Well, yeah, no one doubts that the president can review and consider any recommendation he wishes. The legal constraints are on the president's actions, not his "considerations."

This is ridiculous.

Anyway, Zinke has apparently told McCain that monuments in Arizona will not be reduced in size. So we know that much at least.

In the executive summary, Zinke states: "Proponents tended to promote monument designation as a mechanism to prevent the sale or transfer of public land. This narrative is false and has no basis in fact." In a separate interview, he restates these claims: "I've heard this narrative that somehow the land is going to be sold or transferred. That narrative is patently false and shameful."

This narrative has an absolute basis in fact: Transferring public lands is the explicit platform of the Republican party.
Federal ownership or management of land also places an economic burden on counties and local communities ... Congress shall immediately pass universal legislation providing for a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal government to convey certain federally controlled public lands to states. We call upon all national and state leaders and representatives to exert their utmost power and influence to urge the transfer of those lands, identified in the review process, to all willing states for the benefit of the states and the nation as a whole ... We support amending the Antiquities Act of 1906 to establish Congress’ right to approve the designation of national monuments and to further require the approval of the state where a national monument is designated or a national park is proposed.
The Republican Party platform explicitly calls for an undefined review process to give away federal lands. I don't think any land is going to be sold off or transferred — it's a massively unpopular proposition — but I can't imagine a plausible scenario where it's anything but a knowing lie for Zinke to insist that these concerns are unfounded.
posted by compartment at 12:30 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


I agree that we seem to be locked into this for the duration but I think it's way more likely that Republicans find themselves willing to say "Donald Trump is a great American who got sick and we honor him for his service" than that they ever pull the trigger on impeachment. We should preserve it as a potential off-ramp.

Have you read the text? If Trump can speak all he has to do is say "no I'm not incapacitated" & then it goes to 2/3 vote by BOTH houses to override him.

We, the country, need a trial with evidence & testimony & penalties for lying so there's a single set of facts for us to agree on. The process is as important as the result.
posted by scalefree at 12:31 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm in agreement with Etrigan's assessment of the standard CO/XO playbook above, and also that it will not last.

It seems reasonable, and yet what's Kelly's out look like? Given everything we know, do we think he's just buying time until . . . ?
posted by petebest at 12:31 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]




One little spot of brightness in the dark that is the times of Trump: Trump signs Obama-era VA reforms into law, supporting Secretary David Shulkin, who was put in place by Obama. To temper that positivity a bit, the VA lacks even nominations for the top three positions under Shulkin. I guess Obama can't do everything for Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:35 PM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


If Trump can speak all he has to do is say "no I'm not incapacitated" & then it goes to 2/3 vote by BOTH houses to override him.

Yes, I think that's a more likely off-ramp than a majority of the House and then 2/3 of the Senate, especially after the VP and a majority of the Cabinet has already said "listen, this is real, this has to happen." It's a way out for them that doesn't involve them having to concede wrongdoing.
posted by gerryblog at 12:36 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Responding late to a comment upthread, but in a just world, Roger Stone would be trampled by clowns.
posted by darkstar at 12:39 PM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


It seems reasonable, and yet what's Kelly's out look like? Given everything we know, do we think he's just buying time until . . . ?

By the time you get to four stars, you've had at least a couple of entirely shitty jobs, and you've turned them around. And he might know that this time not even he can do it, but if he can put it off, well, the horse may talk.
posted by Etrigan at 12:39 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


See, this is why I like reenacting the Golden Age of Piracy. Sure, pirates were violent thieves and murderers, but they weren't slavers.

Seriously? I'm all out of evens again and this time it's not even due to President Turnip. I suggest two or three minutes of light googling at the very most to re-educate yourself on this one. Not only many pirates but also privateers under letters of marque were pretty fucking far from being morally above taking and selling plunder from slavers in the shape of holds full of human misery. I don't even have to google it, to my eternal shame certain of my ancestors were amongst those pirates and privateers.
posted by walrus at 12:57 PM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't even have to google it, to my eternal shame certain of my ancestors were amongst those pirates and privateers.

Parlez-vous français?

posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:00 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


My brian is so tired I just got chris24's name.

Sigh. Now I'm repeating the name aloud over and over trying to get it. Unsuccessfully.
posted by greermahoney at 1:02 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Chris-two-four = Chris-to-pher
posted by rue72 at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]


You have to say Chris-two-four, not Chris-twenty-four.
posted by Etrigan at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


On the one hand, yes Gulf Coast residents are used to hurricanes and generally fairly well prepared, if we're not blowing the whole thing off and having a big hurricane party. (I was in a club in downtown Houston when tropical storm Allison hit drinking hurricanes, and some of my friends were trapped in the club while the waters rose until the club flooded and they had to shelter in some dude's apartment upstairs.)

On the other we do tend to rely pretty heavily on FEMA for things like bottled water and food after a couple of days. So...yeah. I hope there's still enough bureaucracy in place to distribute basic necessities.
posted by threeturtles at 1:08 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]



Column: Can corporate America afford to walk away from President Trump?


Outtake: CNBC’s John Harwood recently identified three issues that hinder the Republican Party’s relationship with U.S businesses: economic policy, GOP competence and values.
posted by mumimor at 1:17 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Parlez-vous français?

No, and I'm not going to dignify their memory by naming them either.
posted by walrus at 1:23 PM on August 24, 2017


Sophia Tesfaye/Salon: Trump just flunked his first natural disaster test
Hurricane Harvey is predicted to be first major storm in a decade — and Trump just tweeted a useless campaign ad ...

According to the White House, Trump was briefed on the government’s hurricane preparation efforts earlier this month, but his campaign-style commercial — fitted with a dramatic soundtrack — failed to convey any of that information to worried residents in the storm’s path. His tweet did not include basic information, like who is in danger, how to be prepared, or what the government is doing to prepare.

posted by ZeusHumms at 1:24 PM on August 24, 2017 [28 favorites]


Huh.

National Review: The Libertarianism-to-Fascism Pipeline

Would think they'd be happier about that.
posted by Artw at 1:32 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sophia Tesfaye/Salon: Trump just flunked his first natural disaster test

heckuva job donnie
posted by entropicamericana at 1:34 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Probably everyone will scramble to make sure it turns out alright and he'll swan in to take credit when nothing goes too bad, like a boss.

Otherwise it's blaming Hillary time or whatever.
posted by Artw at 1:37 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


mumimor: Column: Can corporate America afford to walk away from President Trump?
CEOs like Merck’s Ken Frazier rightly voted their conscience when they began to abandon Trump’s American Manufacturing Council and the Strategic and Policy Forum. Frazier, the first to resign, said he felt “a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism.”

The Wall Street Journal, however, was quick to point out that many companies have stopped short of saying they would refuse to work with the White House in the future.

Indeed, despite the heated rhetoric, one thing is clear: Corporate America wants and needs to work with the administration, while the president benefits from a healthy relationship with America’s CEOs.
Why does Corporate America (capitalized as if it were a brand or a monolithic entity) need to work with Trump? If he's an obstacle to hiring the best people, be they minority, LGBTQ, immigrant or other group that our pro-Nazi president has directly or indirectly attacked, wouldn't it be in the best interest of Corporate America to see that this impediment to business be removed, via the methods allowed? If they recognize that climate change is a significant risk to business reliability in the near future, shouldn't they push to have policies in place that ensure stability and resiliency in the face of impending man-made disasters?
Americans expect their president to be the moral leader of the United States, and as such, he must stand firmly for American values. When he fails to do so, CEOs have a responsibility to stand up for those values and to call out the president’s failures, as they just did.
And what happens when Trump flouts those calls for civility, if not efforts to promote unity? When does corporate America start boycotting the president's businesses and business associates? At what time is the president so toxic to stability in the marketplace and in the country that CEOs join the revolt against the president?

Oh, he's still rolling back "job killing" restrictions, so he's clearly the pro-business president they want, those other issues are long-term concerns, let's make hay while the sun is shining, right? He won't get a second term, if he makes it through the first. Even if the country is on fire, at least the markets are pretty sturdy, so it's back to business as normal, even though nothing is normal.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:43 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


CEOs reading the newspaper headline "YOUR BUSINESS NEEDS A SOCIETY TO EXIST IN" then glancing outside at the flaming wreckage and sweating bullets?
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


ZeusHumms: According to the White House, Trump was briefed on the government’s hurricane preparation efforts earlier this month, but his campaign-style commercial — fitted with a dramatic soundtrack — failed to convey any of that information to worried residents in the storm’s path. His tweet did not include basic information, like who is in danger, how to be prepared, or what the government is doing to prepare.

Was it a campaign commercial, or campaign-style commercial? I ask because the financing of that commercial is important, as we identify ways to oust this catastrophic failure of a leader.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:47 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Any more username stuff can go over in this lovely new Metatalk about pronouncing usernames.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:48 PM on August 24, 2017 [18 favorites]




Hurricane Harvey is predicted to be first major storm in a decade — and Trump just tweeted a useless campaign ad ...

The music in that video has a weird rhythmic stutter around three seconds in. How does that even happen? Why is everything these people do so shitty and terrible on every possible level?
posted by theodolite at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


I am proud to have been a derail that a mod had to shut down in an election thread. It's a good day.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2017 [89 favorites]


Turd Reich: San Francisco dog owners lay minefield of poo for rightwing rally

the image conjured up by this article warms my struggling, exhausted heart
posted by numaner at 1:54 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Tubas and turds seem to be very exciting ways to combat nazi nonsense. I mean, punching too, but I just want to come out formally in support of tubas and turds as a first line of offense.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:56 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


Anyway irl Captain Planet villain Ryan Zinke is moving forward on Operation Drill Our National Monuments
posted by theodolite at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tubas playing Yakity Sax as Nazis awkwardly try to goose-step around piles of dogshit would come close to breaking the internet.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:05 PM on August 24, 2017 [41 favorites]


Oh good, the shooting and hostage taking in Charleston is just the regular kind and not terrorism.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


Judge orders tech company to release Web user data from anti-Trump website, Keith Alexander, WaPo

A D.C. Superior Court judge Thursday ruled a Los Angeles-based tech company must provide emails addresses and other computer user information from users who visited an anti-Trump website in the months leading to Inauguration Day.

During an hour-long hearing, attorneys for DreamHost Inc. the company that hosts the website, Disruptj20.org, argued the federal search warrant still was too broad and would include information of innocent individuals who visited the site but were not part of violent Inauguration Day rioting.


Something something Facepals something
posted by petebest at 2:09 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]




Is anyone else envisioning a battalion of tubas launching turds with each note?
No? Just me? Huh...
posted by mfu at 2:11 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


jgirl: Growing Up in the Shadow of the Confederacy

"Even if the South catches fire somehow, and every single memorial to the Confederates is defaced or moved by night to a museum, the white supremacy that those statues celebrated will endure."

Alternatively, I saw the article more as a celebration of what seemed like impossible changes: "For most of my life I didn’t know Confederate statues could come down." The author, Vann R. Newkirk II, was interviewed by NPR yesterday, and he noted something astonishing (to me, as a white guy growing up in California, now living in New Mexico):
... to be frank, I'm not sure how many statues there were near me that weren't Confederate statues, to a point where some of the first statues that I'd seen that weren't of people who were either part of Jim Crow North Carolina or Confederate North Carolina was when I went to D.C. and saw monuments of the Founding Fathers. They symbolize what we want to remember about history. And I think that lesson makes the ubiquity of Confederate statues in the South that much more meaningful and that much more depressing for people of color.
He also talks about the idea that taking down these monuments might lead to a backlash of the removal of Civil Rights monuments if/when the pendulum swings and racists regain power enough to do such things. In response, he said:
So I think now the backlash may not be as violent as it was in his [Andrew Young, the former Atlanta mayor, civil rights activist] day, but the fact that people are reacting this way may be the - exactly the kind of thing you want to see in something that is actually changing the nature of the country and of the South.
He said that this pushback is probably a sign that this is the right thing to do and is moving the country forward.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:12 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


So we're yet again predicted to get more votes, yet somehow lose anyway?

I think we need some **SERIOUS** discussion about how to fix the system, regardless of whether we actually take back power or not.

Clearly if we do, somehow, manage to take back power the first, most urgent, ram it through by killing the filibuster if needed, thing is to ban all gerrymandering in a way that has real teeth.

But assume the more likely outcome happens, that just as in 2016 we get more votes, but the other side somehow "wins" despite actually losing. What then?

There has to be planning for a path forward, because if this keeps up I'm not at all sure we'll be able to get victory in 2020 no matter what all those optimistic demographics keep saying. It seems that every time we look to win the rules get changed so that we actually lose.

In 2008 we won a majority in the House, a supermajority in the Senate, and the Presidency and somehow, like magic, it still wasn't enough to actually fix things. No matter how much we win it isn't quite enough to really win.

Now we're winning solid majorities in races and somehow, like magic, those solid majorities aren't quite enough to really win. We won by nearly 5 million votes in 2016, but 78,000 Republicans in the right places outweigh 5 million Democrats.

So what do we do in 2018 when we win, yet somehow lose anyway?

I damn sure don't want a revolution, they're messy and tend to produce worse governments than came before, but I'm not seeing how we've got a viable non-revolutionary path forward if we keep accepting blatantly crooked election results.

We need to be ready to shut down the entire country with mass protests that make the protests in Egypt look tiny by comparison if we win in 2018 by that victory is stolen from us. We should have done it after Trump "won" in 2016.

But this bullshit where we say its bad, complain on the internet, and then permit a minority of ignorant bigoted scumbags to ruin the country has to stop. Armed revolution isn't a good idea, I'm not advocating that, but we've got to end the theft of the country. If that takes shutting down the entire nation for weeks on end to force them to resign then that's what we'll have to do.

Because I really do think we're at the bitter edge. They're shredding every norm, shitting on the very concept of democracy and majority rule, and they're getting more and more blatant. If they can steal the 2018 victory despite losing the majority then they'll do it again in 2020 and every election going forward.

Otherwise we really will be looking at Civil War 2.0 as the US fragments, and as a liberal Texan I am 100% certain that me and my family will be murdered if that happens.
posted by sotonohito at 2:14 PM on August 24, 2017 [57 favorites]


*checks to see if turdtuba or tubaturd are taken usernames*
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:16 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Might want to hop on domain purchases, too.
posted by jgirl at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


He also talks about the idea that taking down these monuments might lead to a backlash of the removal of Civil Rights monuments if/when the pendulum swings and racists regain power enough to do such things.

I simply can't represent in words how empty a threat this would be. The US becomes dominated by outward racists who create new statues for Confederate characters? We'll have much bigger problems if that happens. Heck, the country would almost have to be on the verge of re-instituting chattel slavery. /jerkoffmotion
posted by rhizome at 2:22 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


In regard to "should we try to understand Trump voters?":

That is the scientific method. You first try to understand the problem, then come up with a few potential approaches to solve it, then test these approaches and study data and repeat the process.

What percentage of them are primarily driven by racism? What percentage primarily by bigotry? What percentage by ignorance? By right wing radio? By FOX news? By right wing web? By abortion? By misogyny?

Their side did not try to understand the Obama voters because that would dilute the anger. But remember: the conservatives are the anti-science side, so it makes sense for them to approach it in this manner. Not for us.

We have to get algebraic on their ass. Maybe we already understand it well enough, but I'm highly sceptical that we do.

I would like to see fewer anecdotes, though. If a news story quotes a half dozen supporters who say they're still sticking with Trump because of the promise of the Wall, for example, that just tells me they were able to find half a dozen people out of 40 million -- which is something I could have told them without doing any research, just by law of probabilities.
posted by rainy at 2:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think we need some **SERIOUS** discussion about how to fix the system, regardless of whether we actually take back power or not.

We have two problems, really. First is that the Dem party we have sucks and has sucked. I have theories, but they aren't for this comment.

Second, you are correct that the R's are ratfucking the vote in any way they can. But, it's been worse in the past, and that was overcome. Dem failures have been largely failures to GOTV and instead appeal to R-leaning independents. Highly paid campaign consultants get paid lots of money to win elections, and still get hired again even when they fail. It's the mirror of the rightwing grift machine. There are many more people who don't vote for whatever reason than there are R-leaners who would vote for a R-lite Dem, but going R-lite has been the strategy for 2+ decades.

Will this be the year they remove head from ass and figure this out ? I'm not confident. The dems in charge are well insulated from the worst of R policies and so don't have to care. And they are in charge, so they and their friends have job security. There is a groundswell of D activity in the local parties, but party leadership has historically been terrified that the plebs will forget their place (see also, WI protests).
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:36 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


That is the scientific method. You first try to understand the problem, then come up with a few potential approaches to solve it, then test these approaches and study data and repeat the process.

As a scientist (and now science professor), I love the approach. However, as a former senior manager in business and in non-profits, I also appreciate when sinking resources into elucidating a problem in fine detail may not be the best use of resources on a practical level. Practically speaking, it may be more critical right now to find a way to isolate and marginalize Trumpians, rather than try to address the root causes.

Or, on better reflection: we probably have the resources to do both simultaneously. Some are going to be good at investigating the causes and vectors for the Trumpian disease and addressing those to mitigate future infections, while others are going to be good at finding ways to isolate and quarantine those so infected to protect the rest of the populace without yet having a cure for their particular disease.

In fact, the more I think of it, a CDC model of disease seems to make more sense to me...
posted by darkstar at 2:43 PM on August 24, 2017 [36 favorites]


In fact, the more I think of it, a CDC model of disease seems to make more sense to me...

This is my weekly, I LOVE YOU ALL and THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ME SANE(R) post.

THANK YOU!
posted by mikelieman at 2:45 PM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


I just gotta throw out this buzzkill wet blanket real quick: the turd minefield is not a super great plan, because improperly disposed/deliberately distributed pet waste is a source of actually serious stream and waterway pollution, and a health hazard to people and other animals. Which seems like something that should be more in the alt-right's wheelhouse. But yes, it is an entertaining mental picture! Let's get the team back to the vision board and keep workshopping this because I love the creative energy I'm feeling right now!
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 3:00 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah. The turds should go on their front porches. In paper bags. Which are set on fire. With napalm.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


and glitter
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:04 PM on August 24, 2017 [22 favorites]


The Occasional Dana: Roll Call: Democrats Launch ‘Rohrabacher Conspiracy’ Site
Democrats are targeting Republican Rep. Dana Rohrabacher with a new website intended to point out connections between the California congressman and figures in the investigation into Russian meddling in last year’s election.

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee launched its “The Rohrabacher Conspiracy” on Wednesday. It shows a bulletin board that links Rohrabacher to various individuals, including Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met with President Donald Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr., and Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman who is under investigation for his ties to Russia.

The site also hits Rohrabacher for his ties to alt-right and white supremacist Charles C. Johnson.

Johnson was the person who arranged Rohrabacher's meeting with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Rohrabacher at the time claimed Assange denied Russia was involved in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee.
It's cute! The Rohrabacher Conspiracy.
posted by notyou at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


The dog poop thing isn't an entirely serious plan, but the Facebook event page does include trying to clean it up on Sunday as part of the agenda, to the extent that's physically possible at that point.
posted by zachlipton at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'd suggest adding a bag of gummi dicks to the poo-glitter, but on the off chance the dicks were salvageable and still edible, they don't deserve the candy.
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 3:08 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Rohrabacher Conspiracy

My favorite Ludlum novel.
posted by chris24 at 3:08 PM on August 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


Metafilter: adding a bag of gummi dicks to the poo-glitter
Metafilter: the dicks were salvageable and still edible
Metafilter: they don't deserve the candy.

Congratulations, you got a (chris)34.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:14 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


And it's sequel: Discarding Dana
posted by notyou at 3:15 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, let's keep our eye on what the GOP has their eyes on: your money.

Politico: Trump’s team and lawmakers making strides on tax reform plan

Highlights:
One idea quietly being discussed would be taxing the money that workers place into their 401(k) savings plans up front: an idea that would raise billions of dollars in the short-term and is pulled from the Camp plan.

The corporate rate will likely fall to somewhere between 22 percent and 25 percent, depending on which deductions or breaks lawmakers are willing to scale back or eliminate — an exercise that usually brings out the special interest groups in full force and has always made any tax tweaks hard. No one familiar with the process said the corporate rate can realistically dip below 20 percent, without some new tax in place. The president has said that he prefers a rate of 15 percent.


I bet he does.
posted by delfin at 3:16 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


This is the first time I have ever been Metafilter:'d, and I could not possibly be more delighted that it happened with that comment.
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 3:17 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Axios, Swan, Trump seriously considering ending DACA
President Trump is seriously considering ending DACA, the Obama-era policy that shields some illegal immigrants from deportation, before conservative state attorneys general file a court challenge to the program.

Sources familiar with the deliberations tell Axios that Trump has made no final decision, and the White House continues to receive advice from the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice. Jeff Sessions strongly believes Trump should end DACA; DHS, however, has a more nuanced position, and Trump himself has said he's sympathetic to the children helped by the program.
He does seem to follow an incredibly hurtful pattern of harming the most vulnerable in this country whenever he feels boxed in politically.
posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on August 24, 2017 [29 favorites]


This tax plan is going to be the coup de grâce of the American middle class.
posted by Talez at 3:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


From the story on the San Francisco dog poop plot:

“I just had this image of alt-right people stomping around in the poop,” Tuffy Tuffington said of the epiphany he had while walking Bob and Chuck, his two Patterdale terriers, and trying to think of the best way to respond to rightwing extremists in the wake of Charlottesville. “It seemed like a little bit of civil disobedience where we didn’t have to engage with them face to face.”

In this time of stress and strife, I urge everyone to pause just briefly from the struggle, and savor this delightful gem for a moment. Not the scheme itself (pleasing though it is), but the beautiful, almost poetic fact that here we have three characters, two dogs and their human - and Tuffy Tuffington is the human's name.
posted by nickmark at 3:32 PM on August 24, 2017 [82 favorites]


RE: More votes / Less Representation

Gerrymandering is a huge problem. But it's not gonna solve the self sorting issue that Democrats and the entire left have. Honestly what we are talking about is that liberal cities are desirable places to live, they have jobs and high quality of life. So Democrats get credit for running their city well. People become Democrats when they see that liberal stuff works. So districts in cities vote like 80% dem and we get 1 Congressman.

Republican Districts can be economically depressed shit holes, and the Republican will blame it all on the big city down the road. Voters in suburbs or rural areas probably feel jealous of the city for being such a great place to live. The best and brightest keep leaving, seemingly stolen from the communities that raised them. Republicans claim they'll go to Washington to fight for the little guy. And they'll win with 55% of the vote and turn around and commit horrible acts of fraud and corruption. But continue to blame the urban grifters for all problems. And Republicans get 1 Congressman.

As there are way way more districts outside the cities than inside them, and no amount of gerrymandering will ever solve this problem, Republicans will always have an advantage in the House (absent a constitutional convention to abolish single member districts). This is why a party of urban dwelling liberals is not a viable governing strategy. We have to appeal to the suburbs. Or Farmers. Or some other group. And I don't know exactly what that Democratic Party would look like but it's not the party that we have today.
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:40 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


BuzzFeed, Jason Leopold does some fantastic FOIA work with Some In Congress Don't Get The "Gravity" Of Russian Election Meddling, Former CIA Director Said
In an internal memo to CIA employees last December, CIA Director John Brennan complained that some members of Congress he had briefed about the agency’s assessment that Russia interfered in the U.S. presidential election did not “understand and appreciate the importance and gravity of the issue.”

Brennan’s December 16, 2016 memo did not identify the lawmakers who expressed skepticism about the CIA’s judgment that Russia helped Donald Trump win the election. But three intelligence sources told BuzzFeed News that Brennan’s criticism was directed at Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senator John Cornyn, the Majority Whip. At the time, the two Republican lawmakers downplayed the importance of the CIA’s intelligence. Cornyn said it was “hardly news.”
As opposed to the members of Congressional leadership who understood the "gravity" perfectly and just made jokes about it instead?
posted by zachlipton at 3:46 PM on August 24, 2017 [19 favorites]




@realDonaldTrump: A great honor to spend time with our brave HEROES at the @USMC Air Station Yuma. THANK YOU for your service to the United Staes of America! [stupid video follows]

This has been up for 10 minutes and nobody has bothered to fix the spelling of "Staes."
posted by zachlipton at 3:49 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


Podcast Review

I have two today that I highly recommend. The first is The Weeds How the Rich Ate All the Growth. Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias discuss a white paper that was actually published in 2014: Income and Wealth Inequality: Evidence and Policy Implications. The most interesting thing I took away from their discussion was how the Reagan tax cuts, which were meant to produce economic prosperity for all (AKA rising tide lifts all boats, AKA VooDoo Economics) made the country the prosperous nation it is today but nearly all the gains were absorbed by the top 10%.

The French bottom 50% were poorer than the American bottom 50% pre-Reagan but due to their progressive taxation, while France has not made the gains America has, the bottom 50% are now richer than the American bottom 50%.

The other podcast, Otherppl with Brad Listi is an interview with Jared Yates Sexton who has a new book out about the 2016 election. I'm not usually big on interview shows but this one kept my attention. Sexton first came to my notice when he began covering Trump rallies in 2016. Two things I find particularly interesting:

1) He said the energy at the Trump rallies was like no other campaign rally in large part because DJT gave people license to air their non-PC views. Trump was very good at tiptoeing up to the edge of saying something really racist or sexist but not saying it out loud. These crowds would then say them out loud-- even yell them. Sexton described this like a young child trying out its first curse word. This made people charged up, thrilled, and addicted to that feeling.

2) He also believes as some of you do that any attempt to remove Trump will result in a military uprising. He talks a lot about his friends and family members who have been arming themselves and prepping for war for decades now. They are ready and even excited at the idea of going to war. But when Listi asked, "What do they want? What would appease them?" Sexton was unable to answer. That was very striking. Because these are his people, his subjects that he has lived with and studied for years but even he does not know what they want. I don't think they know themselves. Sure, White Supremacists want their own nation with all POC moved out but that's an impossible dream. What they think they can actually accompllish by taking up arms is unclear.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:51 PM on August 24, 2017 [40 favorites]


We have to appeal to the suburbs. Or Farmers. Or some other group. And I don't know exactly what that Democratic Party would look like but it's not the party that we have today.

Suspect that's not actually possible, just by the nature of who chooses to remain there. As long as representation is tied to geographical area rather than number of voters American democracy is always going to be a screw-over.
posted by Artw at 3:55 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Suburbs are hardly 100% Republican. I could see an argument for the rural areas being unlikely to support the Dems in large number, but suburbs are winnable.

(And of course, "suburbs" of Los Angeles are very different politically than suburbs in Kansas, and they change over time --- Orange Country used to be solidly GOP but has switched in recent years)
posted by thefoxgod at 3:58 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


But why are voting districts carved up by area? Why can't they be done by population?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:05 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Some olden timesy shit about what was practical to do when everything worked on traveling by horseback, no doubt.
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Suspect that's not actually possible, just by the nature of who chooses to remain there. As long as representation is tied to geographical area rather than number of voters American democracy is always going to be a screw-over.

So the big lefty self sort to cities means that we're structurally headed towards a true tyranny of the minority

And that minority is heavily armed

And addicted to fear and delusions of victimhood

Cool. Cool cool cool.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:15 PM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]


Isn't the method used for choosing federal representatives up to the state govt - if you want something fairer choose using MMP (the German/NZ/...) system: make your congressional districts twice the size, and give each voter 2 votes - one for a district a rep and one for a state-wide party, half the state's reps are chosen using FPP within their districts, the other half from lists nominated by the parties before the election to make up the congressional delegation to match the numbers from the state-wide party votes (taking into account the parties of those elected for districts)

Instantly gerrymandering becomes pointless, and it breaks the 2-party stranglehold on govt
posted by mbo at 4:16 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Suspect the 2 parties, and now the 1 party, rather likes the stranglehold on govt, so it may be difficult to dislodge.
posted by Artw at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2017


Some olden timesy shit about what was practical to do when everything worked on traveling by horseback, no doubt.

Such as? I'm beginning to suspect that for the most part their desires are either unworkable or inchoate. Also if you asked each one, "What are you going to war over?" their answers would all be different and vague. Something like, "To take our country back." Well what does that mean? It seems like if you want to shoot and kill people (and risk your own life) you should have a better idea of why.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:19 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Because libruls.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:21 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's pretty straightforward, isn't it? Taking their country back. Key word is "their," as in they don't think they should have to share any of it.
posted by delfin at 4:26 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


you can't actually tell the CO "Sir, I got this. Let me handle it." if the CO isn't in on the plan, because you just directly challenged his authority.

Honestly, what I'm having major flashbacks to was the one time our platoon leader was a brand spanking new butter bar and complete incompetent, but didn't realize they were incompetent. We wound up, among other things, managing to distract the LT with Pocket Tanks and calling it a training simulation. And it worked for a while, but fully 50% of our time and energy were taken up with Ways To Distract The LT So He Doesn't Give Us Bad Orders.

which is to say, I feel you, Gen Kelly, but eventually he's going to come out of the distractions and then people are going to die.
posted by corb at 4:29 PM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


It's pretty straightforward, isn't it? Taking their country back. Key word is "their," as in they don't think they should have to share any of it.

They are really quite happy for us to subsidise their asses though.
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on August 24, 2017 [12 favorites]




Well yes, they obviously hate liberals. Hate them bad enough to kill them? When liberal people are their family members, members of their church, neighbors?

I know one thing I hear a lot is "I'm tired of being PC." That just sounds like people want to say mean things without being shamed by society. They want to call people the N word or women the C word or use labels like retard or fatso. I think that would be something you could sit down and discuss. "Why do you want to call people mean things?"

as in they don't think they should have to share any of it.

Yes, as I've said White Supremacists have articulated they want POC moved out of their nation. How they think this can be done I have never heard. But I don't believe all Trump supporters are aiming for a pure white country. So they need to articulate who they want gone, how they propose to do it, and explain why it is necessary and if it will improve the country.

A good example is the currant war on illegal immigrants. Trump people want them gone and don't mind ripping families apart. But when you ask who is going to pick the crops, they have no answer except "farmers have to pay more, then American will do it." Which just isn't true nor is it workable.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [19 favorites]


#notallcurrants
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:41 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


They want to call people the N word or women the C word or use labels like retard or fatso. I think that would be something you could sit down and discuss. "Why do you want to call people mean things?"

For some, I think they believe those not like them are godless, or evil. As in, they are sanctioned by god to reject and possibly even kill those not like them.
posted by agregoli at 4:43 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sorry got my currents crossed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:44 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


the currant war on illegal immigrants

Trump has been raisin the stakes for sure.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:45 PM on August 24, 2017 [30 favorites]


Can we prune back the puns please? Dam, son.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:47 PM on August 24, 2017 [23 favorites]


So they need to articulate who they want gone, how they propose to do it, and explain why it is necessary and if it will improve the country.

Since when has ethnic cleansing required a rational argument?
posted by schadenfrau at 4:50 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]




So the armed rebellion that people are predicting is all based on the desire for ethnic cleansing? You really think there are enough people in America that want that?

I don't know why I am looking here for answers. It seems a bit futile to be asking my fellow liberals to explain the rational behind the Far Right Wing's threat of going to war. I just find it strange that so many people now are convinced we are headed for some sort of civil war and I don't know what the other side wants.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:57 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


> They are ready and even excited at the idea of going to war. But when Listi asked, "What do they want? What would appease them?" Sexton was unable to answer. That was very striking. Because these are his people, his subjects that he has lived with and studied for years but even he does not know what they want. I don't think they know themselves.

Below is Abraham Lincoln on the desires of Southern-aligned conservatives. This is taken from his Cooper Union address. The short of it is that Lincoln believed that the slave states would not be satisfied until and unless the people of the free states stopped believing that slavery was wrong. Anyway, here's Abe:
The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.

These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas' new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.

I am quite aware they do not state their case precisely in this way. Most of them would probably say to us, "Let us alone, do nothing to us, and say what you please about slavery." But we do let them alone - have never disturbed them - so that, after all, it is what we say, which dissatisfies them. They will continue to accuse us of doing, until we cease saying.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:57 PM on August 24, 2017 [103 favorites]


Trump has been raisin the stakes for sure.

It's hard to keep up with all the capers these days.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:00 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


With all the grifting he's done as president, it's nice to see VeryFineNazis hit him where it hurts.

@Fahrenthold
Charity events planned at @realdonaldtrump's Mar-a-Lago, per season.
2013/2014: 45
2014/2015: 52
2015/2016: 43
2016/2017: 38
2017/2018: 6

---

And each of these is $50-200K lost.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on August 24, 2017 [63 favorites]


Yes, as I've said White Supremacists have articulated they want POC moved out of their nation. How they think this can be done I have never heard. But I don't believe all Trump supporters are aiming for a pure white country. So they need to articulate who they want gone, how they propose to do it, and explain why it is necessary and if it will improve the country.

It's a fair question. The hardcore Klan types want RaHoWa, drive all the (slurs) into the sea, yadda yadda, but at least they are a minority even among Trumpoids. Likewise, any kind of armed rebellion will not be an organized state-against-state clash because there simply aren't enough people who are THAT nuts. Marching nuts, maybe, but not killing nuts. More like a few dozen Bundy standoffs at once instead of one at a time, all of them thinking that since they're obviously in the right the Army and the Marines will join their side and march on Washington and hey, wait, why are you pointing those carbines at US?

It's the usual paradox -- the people crazy enough to plan wild and violent schemes are rarely sane enough to actually pull them off.

Most of the raving conservatives are, of course, keyboard warriors. They don't want RaHoWa and actual blood on their hands. Even a large percentage of the I Luvs Mah Gun types will graciously let others do the fighting for them. They want _someone else_ to take care of things and restore order and put America back the way it should be. Which is not every black and brown and female person GONE, per se, but simply knowing their place and doing the menial work and the housework and the shit jobs in the background and not complaining about it and being happy with what they get. Prosperity and civility and standards of living are zero-sum, so of course they should be redistributed to the right people and the rest can make do with scraps.

Most Trumpoids get upset about who's picking the crops because they're _told_ they should be upset. They're _told_ that every dollar immigrants get is lifted from their pockets. They shoudn't have to think about who's doing shit work because it should just get done, and they should reap the benefits without having to see or think about the proles. It's not a heavy thinking exercise.
posted by delfin at 5:12 PM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm afraid to google RaHoWa.
posted by suelac at 5:17 PM on August 24, 2017 [17 favorites]


(absent a constitutional convention to abolish single member districts).

There is a 19th century federal statute mandating single member districts. The constitution itself leaves it to states to decide how to select their representatives.

Call your own representative and ask them to support the Fair Vote Act (which is an actual bill that has been introduced in Congress this year.) It would end gerrymandering, solve the self-sorting problem, and as a bonus probably destroy the two party system.

Proportional representation in the House, in multi-member districts, selected via ranked choice voting. No Constituional amendment required! We need to make this happen, even if it takes a couple of decades.

While you are calling, call your state level reps and get them to vote for the National Popular Vote Compact which also does not require a Constitional Amendment. Would not abolish the electoral college, but would ensure electoral college victory always goes to the popular vote winner.

Gonna keep posting this info whenever I get the excuse until other people start posting it for me. :-)
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:18 PM on August 24, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'm afraid to google RaHoWa.

An abbreviated concatenation of "Racial Holy War". It's basically the delusion of turning the United States into a christofascist white ethno-state at the barrel of a gun.
posted by Talez at 5:20 PM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Why would Republican dominated states voluntarily devolve power to Democratic minorities by changing to multi-member districts? That's why I am pessimistic about the future. I see little chance that this stuff will happen peacefully.
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


you can't actually tell the CO "Sir, I got this. Let me handle it." if the CO isn't in on the plan, because you just directly challenged his authority.

Honestly, what I'm having major flashbacks to was the one time our platoon leader was a brand spanking new butter bar and complete incompetent, but didn't realize they were incompetent.


My first billet in the Coast Guard was with a competent, reasonable, amiable XO...and a CO who was really kind of a tool. Like his actual skills for the job (seamanship, using gear, etc) were fine, but his leadership and human interaction were comically bad, or would have been comical if he wasn't hyper-competitive and just bad at interfacing with people.

Naturally, everyone was miserable. So I get what Kelly is trying to do here, and in a normal leadership structure this can work. But like Etrigan says above, it won't last. Hell, I still don't think it'll last more than a week.

Also, while we're on the subject, there's this story about Army soldiers getting booted from Pence's communications detail because they got caught bringing women back to their hotel room on the Latin America trip.

I seem to recall the Secret Service getting busted for bad behavior several times back in the last administration, but not while POTUS was actually with them. That, and this is a whole 'nother organization they're from. We're seven months in and already dudes from the Army aren't taking their White House jobs seriously. In any normal administration I'd think these guys are just colossally stupid but not a sign of a big problem. With these jerks in office? This is a bad sign.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:22 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm afraid to google RaHoWa.

I'm afraid to google going ham on yarn. I'm afraid it might describe me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:29 PM on August 24, 2017 [18 favorites]


A comics blog has reported on 'the most subversive Batman cartoon of the '60s', depicting The Joker running for Gotham City Mayor AND winning, with way too many parallels to Trump, 48 years later. The Donald was fresh out of college in 1968, but he could've still been watching Saturday Morning Cartoons ... and taking notes.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:29 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy I don't know why I am looking here for answers. It seems a bit futile to be asking my fellow liberals to explain the rational behind the Far Right Wing's threat of going to war. I just find it strange that so many people now are convinced we are headed for some sort of civil war and I don't know what the other side wants.

I think, whether they'll admit it or not, they want a Fascist ethno-state where white people are either officially the dominant and privileged group, or the only group, Christianity is mandated by the state, and liberalism, leftism, and any other sort of politics they dislike are banned by law.

It's all about Fascism and, less specifically, authoritarianism. They neither like nor trust democracy, they don't like social equality, and most important they want things to be the way they imagine the past was. They want dad to go to work in a good manly job while mom stays home and takes care of buddy and sis who go to a clean, all white, public school where each day starts with a prayer. They want the mythic 1950's that never was.

They want to be **RIGHT**. They want everyone to admit that they were right. They want everyone who isn't normal (with normal defined as white, straight, cis, Christian, ablebodied, and socially conservative without any weird hobbies) to just go away so they don't have to think about us or admit we exist (killing the abnormal is, of course, totally an option if we won't be polite and just vanish).

They want simple, easy to understand, answers to complex problems. Muslims? Nuke 'em. Not enough jobs? Take 'em back from China. Mexico? Build a wall. Hippies? Kill 'em (or put 'em in jail, or beat 'em until they stop being so willfully abnormal).

That's why Trump has such an appeal to them.

And I do think that they're willing to kill to get that.

But, more important I'm worried that they won't have to unless we do something drastic. Because, thanks to gerrymandering, thanks to the Senate, thanks to the whole structure of the US government, they've found a way to win without having a majority. They'd be perfectly content to never have a war and just lord it over the liberals, commies, hippies, and other assorted undesirables like the whites did in Apartheid South Africa.

That's where my fear comes in. Not that we will be gunned down by Trump Troopers, but that Trump Troopers won't have to gun us down. That by maintaining a facade of democracy they can keep us from taking to the streets in the numbers it will take to reform our government and re-empower the majority until it's normalized to the point where it really will take a revolution.

That said, I do think a great many Trumpers are well and truly ready to fight, in a disorganized random terrorism sort of way, if Trump is ousted by any means other than losing the 2020 election, and possibly even then. He's managed to build a very successful cult of personality around himself, and around 20% of the US population seems to be well and truly devoted to the Trump Cult.
posted by sotonohito at 5:30 PM on August 24, 2017 [54 favorites]


Butterbar is now my favorite insider-slang-aimed-at-insiders slur.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:36 PM on August 24, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why would Republican dominated states voluntarily devolve power to Democratic minorities by changing to multi-member districts?

One possible result of the current crisis is that the Republican party will tear itself to shreds.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


One idea quietly being discussed would be taxing the money that workers place into their 401(k) savings plans up front: an idea that would raise billions of dollars in the short-term and is pulled from the Camp plan.

christ, if this kind of regressive class-war bullshit is what they're quietly discussing where the press can hear it, what the fuck are they doing in hushed whispers behind closed doors?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:40 PM on August 24, 2017 [31 favorites]


This is a bit silly but it did make me laugh.

The Hill Fox guest calls Mitch McConnell an 'insider swamp monster'
Former Secret Service agent Dan Bongino called Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) an “upper-crust, bow tie-wearing, foie gras-eating insider swamp monster" during an appearance on "Fox & Friends" on Thursday.
It amused me for a couple of reasons. Because Tucker Carlson famously used to wear bow ties and the "foie gras-eating" eating part reminded me of when Obama was that "arugula lover." So I guess Mitch and Barack must now be besties cuz they both eat funny food.


They want dad to go to work in a good manly job while mom stays home and takes care of buddy and sis


That reminded me of another point that they were making in the Weeds Podcast I mentioned earlier. The stagnant wages of the middle and lower classes-- which you remember are linked to the Reagan tax cuts--have resulted in smaller families. So more middle class families are having one child in order to stay middle class. GOP economics have had a major hand in changing American family structure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


A quick link. This is old news, from last month, when a Republican healthcare bill was still a looming possibility. It's an interview with a Trump voter from Kentucky broadcast on NPR:
DREA HOLBERT: So I pay, like, a hundred and almost $40 every two weeks out of my paycheck for me and my three kids to have health care. And it's not even that good of health care.

KEITH: She says her aunt's family got coverage through Obamacare, and it's worse.

HOLBERT: And it's really hard for them to find doctors that actually accept it.

KEITH: But Holbert doesn't like what she's hearing about the GOP health care bill.

HOLBERT: I don't think that'll work either. I think hopefully they can take a look at what, like, Canada is doing and even Cuba.
Some of the Trump voters are true believers in his proposed policies. They really want to build the wall, they really want to repeal the ACA and leave nothing in place. But a significant fraction of those voters are people like this, people who are tired of the status quo, and are willing to vote for or support anything that looks different from the status quo.

This interview is cause for optimism. The future of the Democratic Party is, I hope, Medicare for all. If Democrats frame the debate properly, the Republican Party can't argue against it without arguing against Medicare itself.
posted by compartment at 5:45 PM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Former Secret Service agent Dan Bongino called Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) an “upper-crust, bow tie-wearing, foie gras-eating insider swamp monster" during an appearance on "Fox & Friends" on Thursday.

To be clear, he said this while defending a guy who is so down-to-earth, he has gold-plated seat belt buckles on his private jet.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


Yes, zachlipton! And the funny thing is that when he said "foie gras-eating" I thought for a millisecond that the guy in the oval office and his wife probably eat it by the bucketload. But then I came to my senses and remembered that DJT eats KFC and well done steak. His wife, on the other hand, probably does enjoy a little foie gras if she thinks she can afford the calories that day.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can we all take a moment to remember the real victim of racist violence? Poor Donald, everyone keeps blaming him and it's just not fair. That's what the Phoenix rally was about, his victimhood. He's the one hurt by this most of all. Please keep poor Donald in your thoughts.
posted by adept256 at 5:56 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wait wait. Ivanka gets fan mail from children? Did kids send handmade cards to Valerie Jarrett? Do they send cards to Tiffany Trump now? Or is this some weird-ass "our country suddenly has a princess" stuff?
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [7 favorites]


what the fuck are they doing in hushed whispers behind closed doors?

They talk about strange and wondrous things!

Things like: how a single percentage increase in annual fund management fees can siphon off tens of thousands of dollars from a retirement nest egg over a lifetime, and how it's imperative to kill the "fiduciary rule" so financial planners can refer clients to such shitty funds and get a kickback, even as it undermines a retiree's financial solvency. Multiplied by a million times every year, or so.

Or, how ALEC drafts legislation that makes mandatory sentencing a law, then for-profit prison owners bribe-fund political campaigns of "tough on crime" legislators and judges, so they all have a built-in mechanism and incentive to arrest and incarcerate more people, with the added bonus of destroying the voting franchise of minorities and making it less possible this kind of corruption can be overturned at the ballot box.

Or, how the easiest way to make a social problem "go away" so that it doesn't require a political response is to defund the agency responsible for investigating and identifying the problem in the first place, such as gun violence, health effects from mining, or dangers of climate change.

Or, how law enforcement agencies have a conflict of interest - and a material incentive - to violate citizens' 4th Amendment Constitutional protection against unreasonable seizure of assets, and why conservative legislators manage to find asset forfeiture nevertheless acceptable.

Or how conservative politicians plan to grossly underfund public education in a state, and then use the resulting negative outcomes as evidence that the thing they just sabotaged isn't working, and then funnel other state tax revenues toward private and religious schools, in support of the business and conservative religious voting classes, as well as pandering to selfish, conservative retirees who don't want to pay taxes to support the education of other people's children, even though they, themselves, benefited from public education when they and their own kids were growing up.

You know...shit like that.
posted by darkstar at 6:05 PM on August 24, 2017 [105 favorites]


Wait wait. Ivanka gets fan mail from children?

Those are obviously from her father.
posted by peeedro at 6:20 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


One idea quietly being discussed would be taxing the money that workers place into their 401(k) savings plans up front:

christ, if this kind of regressive class-war bullshit is what they're quietly discussing where the press can hear it, what the fuck are they doing in hushed whispers behind closed doors?

Well, digging into it what they mean is basically shifting pretax 401k stuff to Roth-style. Tax up front, distributions untaxed.

It works great for passing a "balanced" budget in the CBO timeframe, because it front-loads all the taxes. It may actually decrease total revenue in the long run depending on the normal calculation of whether you're better off doing pretax or Roth.

For the average person with a 401(k), it means removing the pretax option and leaving only Roth. For high earners it presumably would have to include also removing the income limit on Roth, since currenlty they can only do pretax (well, there's backdoor/mega-backdoor but thats separate from this particular issue).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


In other words, the primary goal there is not to help or hurt taxpayers, many people will be unaffected, some hurt and some maybe even helped.

Its primary goal is to allow them to claim they "balanced" the budget without having to make hard choices, by shifting revenue into the short term.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:28 PM on August 24, 2017 [10 favorites]


If Democrats frame the debate properly

LOL... I think I see what the problem is with this argument.

The Democrats absolutely suck at branding, message control, spin, etc. Republican talking points and framing and phrasing seem to always get a pass, and get adopted as the language and parameters of the debate. WHY IS IT SO???
posted by Meatbomb at 6:28 PM on August 24, 2017 [20 favorites]



They want dad to go to work in a good manly job while mom stays home and takes care of buddy and sis
<--- who are cis!
posted by jgirl at 6:28 PM on August 24, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is why a party of urban dwelling liberals is not a viable governing strategy. We have to appeal to the suburbs. Or Farmers. Or some other group.

In Minnesota, we went with Democrat-Farmer-Labor. Of course, that was a long time ago.

A good example is the currant war on illegal immigrants. Trump people want them gone and don't mind ripping families apart. But when you ask who is going to pick the crops, they have no answer except "farmers have to pay more, then American will do it." Which just isn't true nor is it workable.

There are so many things like this, where the simplistic solution is pushed and pushed and the implications of actually doing it as described are never considered even as far as second order effects. It's clearly how the bulk of the appointees running the administration operate; even the ones who might actually want to do a good job (which is by no means a large fraction) are just hopelessly incompetent because policy is not nearly as simple as their smug Dunning-Krueger armchair quarterback attitude had told them it is.

It makes the technocrat in me want to just say "Fine! Get rid of migrant workers! Destroy the health insurance markets! Do it all!" just to watch everything fall apart and be able to say I Told You So (and to prove once and for all that these horrible tax ideas, and all the other things, honestly just don't work in the real world). But of course that would wreak devastation on millions of people in millions of ways, and is really not worth it just for me to be able to say I was right, so we have to just keep pushing back.

I just find it strange that so many people now are convinced we are headed for some sort of civil war and I don't know what the other side wants

I totally feel you on this. And there's lots of folks in the thread offering ideas on what they want. I'm going to take it in a slightly different direction because my hunch is they don't really know what they want in the sense that you're asking; this has never been about clearly articulated desired end states but about anger and grievances (along with plenty of racism and xenophobia and all that). And all of those bad feelings and anger continue to be stoked, and not just by 45. This is pure speculation on my part, but the continued decline of American institutions and governance seems very much in line with Russia's strategic goals - they messed with the election to undermine faith in our democracy. I think having the US devolve into civil war would be way beyond what they would set their sights on, but it would be an un-hoped-for delight. I remember reading about how nobody in al Qaeda thought the Twin Towers would actually fall down - that kind of "successful beyond wildest dreams" thing. So I don't think Russia is done with us; that propaganda machine has shifted focus but continues to try and create discord and animus between Americans, to polarize us, and reduce the overall stability of our institutions and our society. Again this is all just me speculating, but I just don't think Russia is done fucking with us.

[Additional edit window disclaimer: I'm still in the hospital on those amazing painkillers.]
posted by nickmark at 6:30 PM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]


Wait wait. Ivanka gets fan mail from children? Did kids send handmade cards to Valerie Jarrett? Do they send cards to Tiffany Trump now? Or is this some weird-ass "our country suddenly has a princess" stuff?

After the election my sister's mother-in-law was going on about how attractive the Trump family is, like the Kennedy family. So, yeah, weird-ass princess stuff.
posted by Lyme Drop at 6:33 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


After the election my sister's mother-in-law was going on about how attractive the Trump family is, like the Kennedy family. So, yeah, weird-ass princess stuff.

Also; not black. Don't forget that part.
posted by Justinian at 6:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [56 favorites]


The charitable answer to "what do they want that they are willing to take up arms for?" I stated this way in old comments....
"A society organized around extended families, where people have duties primarily to family, receive support primarily from family, and fit into social roles depending on their place in the family structure... A society where old people are cared for by their adult daughters or daughters in law, and children are cared for by grandmothers when their mothers are busy, and wealth is passed parent to child along with family businesses or farms."
...
"Kids defer to their parents. Even adults who are parents typically defer to their own parents, lest they lose the support of the family. And if you come from a rich/powerful family, you are entitled to the benefits that gives you over someone who does not."
I have actually gotten my conservative culture warrior mom to agree to that description of what she wants, without calling it by that name. Arlie Hochschild got people to agree to a description of their worldview involving people of other groups cutting in "line" ahead of them... an intrinsically hierarchical view of the world.

They won't call this "patriarchy" but that's what I would call it. It is related to what Lakoff calls "strict father morality" and what Haidt calls the "moral foundations" of purity, authority, and in-group loyalty. It is clannish/tribal/xenophobic as well as hierarchical and very common in human history (especially in rural societies possibly for evolutionary reasons).

A less charitable but I think substantially similar description of what they want from Masha Gessen was posted recently.
The appeal of autocracy lies in its promise of radical simplicity, an absence of choice. In Trump’s imaginary past, every person had his place and a securely circumscribed future, everyone and everything was exactly as it seemed, and government was run by one man issuing orders that could not and need not be questioned.
It is not unlike what the Taliban wants. It is not unlike what the Nazis wanted or the Confederates either, though it need not necessarily lead to death camps or slavery. It is there in the ideology of Victorian Engand too. But throughout history people have proven I willing to take up arms to achieve that vision of society.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:41 PM on August 24, 2017 [66 favorites]


Clearly if we do, somehow, manage to take back power the first, most urgent, ram it through by killing the filibuster if needed, thing is to ban all gerrymandering in a way that has real teeth.

If we ever get the House and Senate back at the same time again I don't want a single other bill introduced until we've approved statehood for D.C. and Puerto Rico.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:47 PM on August 24, 2017 [13 favorites]


Some of the Trump voters are true believers in his proposed policies. They really want to build the wall, they really want to repeal the ACA and leave nothing in place. But a significant fraction of those voters are people like this, people who are tired of the status quo, and are willing to vote for or support anything that looks different from the status quo.

This interview is cause for optimism. The future of the Democratic Party is, I hope, Medicare for all. If Democrats frame the debate properly, the Republican Party can't argue against it without arguing against Medicare itself.


Listen today's Pod Save America with pollster David Binder talking about Obama->Trump voter focus groups. There's a ton of people that voted for the "change" candidate again. They don't care and/or can't be bothered to look at actual policies, all they care about is which candidate projected the image of change, or 'shaking up Washington'. To the extent they even know policy details, it comes far behind their gut feeling. Trump was the change candidate for those people, just as much as Obama was in 2008. They want someone who will solve their problems, but far more than that they want someone who makes them feel like they will solve their problems, regardless of all evidence of policies, plans, or even basic competence or temperament to do so.

Every election is a choice, and since 2008 change has been the winning message. Not plans, or policies, or track record, just inspiring a feeling of changing the rigged economy back towards the average voter. Those people aren't gone. Democrats can win them back with a strong slate of candidates in 2018 and an authentic 2020 challenger that recaptures the change narrative. Trump isn't going to deliver shit. He was never going to change anything, but no matter how obvious that was at the time, he was the one who sounded like something new and different. And if Democrats deliver real change next time, not "change for Wall Street like always, and ok, also some regular people, but not others caught in a byzantine donut hole for Rube Goldberg reasons we can only explain over the course of three prime time speeches and a 600 page white paper", but actual durable and visible change for 100% of Americans, they can keep winning, because Republicans will never have any policy message other than tax cuts in response.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:50 PM on August 24, 2017 [28 favorites]


The Democrats absolutely suck at branding, message control, spin, etc. Republican talking points and framing and phrasing seem to always get a pass, and get adopted as the language and parameters of the debate. WHY IS IT SO???

Republican voters, by and large, have poor critical-thinking skills and don't question authority. Democrats are the opposite.
posted by rifflesby at 7:00 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Herding dogs vs. herding cats, to put it another way.
posted by rifflesby at 7:02 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


And I do think that they're willing to kill to get that.

They aint gonna. Recall, we were ruled by Obunghole the Marxist Kenyan Muslime Tyrant, who would plunge Amurka into a thousand years of darkness. He used Rex-84 to flouridate the water of Jade Helm, TX imprisoning the people in FEMA camps run by Century21 of the UN.

How many of those balding Keyboard Kommandos wolverined their middleaged ass up the Capitol steps to fight back this purest most distilled form of evil and tyranny in the name of LIBERTY for whites ?

Mucho habla no trebajo, a friend used to say to me. As the Sobbing Nazi demonstrated, they have not the temerity nor the reproductive organs to do much more than post fervently on your local newspaper website. Yes, every once in a while, one will get froggy and jump - but McVeigh and all the rest have died or rotted in prison while exactly no RACE WAR FOR LIBERTY has happened.

To be clear, its not that they have had no effect. Here we are, after all. It's just that it is possible to overstate their capabilities.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:10 PM on August 24, 2017 [25 favorites]



whoa I just got the joke from a really filthy R. Crumb comic

I don't remember the name but it was this la la perfect happy family, like perfect in the It's Morning in America way, with the father slapping his knee over some corny shit in the funnies and then the story takes a really sharp turn and suddenly it's incest-a-rama.

Now, mind you, in my assessment of Crumb's work I think he probably was creating more wank material than a social statement about the weirdo underbelly of perfect Republican family, but I'd completely lost the satire aspect of it, mostly because I think this was the first comic book I'd seen that wasn't Superman or along those lines and so I was not expecting to see serious incest action in cartoon form.
posted by angrycat at 7:20 PM on August 24, 2017


As the Sobbing Nazi demonstrated

There has to be a way to filk this up with the song Sobbin' Women from the film Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which was in turn a "lighthearted" turn on the story of the Sabine Women.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:20 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's a ton of people that voted for the "change" candidate again.

In non-incumbent Presidential elections, people vote for the candidate with less elected experience. This has held true in every such election since the dawn of the 20th Century.

Slight exception: Kennedy had about a week more time in office than Nixon.
posted by Etrigan at 7:20 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


Dem failures have been largely failures to GOTV

Agreed, and yet all I can think of is multiple daily calls and spam as to whether or not I'll be supporting Candidate McBoatface on election day. Multiple. Daily. Calls. A mountain of fliers. To me. Straight-D (mostly, c'mon that one guy was crooked as hell), every-primary, every-election, yard-signin' me.

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!

Repeat after me, DNC/CC: "It is not 1984. We should not produce slick ads and run them every ten minutes for seventeen months. Corporate media can not and will not help us." One more time. Good! Now change everything. You'll, ah. You'll need coders. Computer . . people. Do that right and there might be cake.
posted by petebest at 7:21 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


whoa I just got the joke from a really filthy R. Crumb comic

The Aristocrats!
posted by rifflesby at 7:22 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]



Oh hey look what else The President did today. He indirectly caused a guy to lose his business.

That Obama Eclipse Meme Guy Trump Retweeted? Just Lost His T-Shirt Store
posted by Jalliah at 7:22 PM on August 24, 2017 [69 favorites]


Trump truly has the anti-Midas touch, which is probably why everything he owns is painted gold.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [22 favorites]



National Cathedral speeds up decision on Lee and Jackson windows

“Those windows won’t remain in their current place in their current context”

NBC4 Washington DC reports that the National Cathedral has changed its timetable for making a decision on the fate of stain-glass windows honoring Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. A decision their fate had been two years away. The windows were a gift of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and were installed in the 1950s.

The Confederate battle flag in the windows was replaced with plain blue glass after the killings in Charleston, SC.

A decision is expected “soon.”


This stuff is everywhere.
posted by Jalliah at 7:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [36 favorites]


National Cathedral has changed its timetable for making a decision on the fate of stain-glass windows honoring Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

And what about the Sith? No, it can wait. You've got real things to take care of first.
posted by petebest at 7:33 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


My mom is one of those "change" voters. (I should preface this comment by saying my mom lives in an upper middle class bubble, is doing fine, has done fine most of her life, and baffles me by her complaining about taxes that I know she can easily afford.) She just doesn't really grok the intricacies of our system and how one person can't just wave a wand and make shit happen. And she has a fundamental mistrust and dislike of government so her default state is "throw the bums out." She voted Obama in 08, then Romney in 12 because Obama didn't do enough Change Stuff in the 18 months he had a majority in Congress before he got stonewalled. And she voted Johnson in 16 because she hated Hillary (not changey enough) but she's 1000% not into Trump, Trumpism, or anything having to do with that asshole. She did admit that had she known that Trump had a chance of winning, she'd have held her nose and pulled the lever for Clinton.

I'm kind of the opposite. I love government! My default setting is "keep the people who know what they're doing around, as long as they aren't scumbags." Every now and then you get someone who is both a relative newcomer and obviously hypercompetent (Obama) and I'm down with that. Bring in some new blood. But just overturning the playing board for the hell of it? DANGER, WILL ROBINSON. I can't even handle that they changed the name of my department at work. THE OLD ONE WAS FINE WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING????
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [50 favorites]


There's a ton of people that voted for the "change" candidate again. They don't care and/or can't be bothered to look at actual policies, all they care about is which candidate projected the image of change, or 'shaking up Washington'.

Thus made me think, of all things, of a Facebook post (no login required) [samizdata excerpt] by Eliezer Yudkowsky, from right before the election:
I think I might understand a little better now, how Peter Thiel could possibly, possibly be supporting Donald Trump; and how it is that non-white and non-male voters suddenly turned into the guardians standing against the fall of night.
Trump voters are, in a certain sense to be described, optimists.
Life (in Alabama, let's say) used to be good.
Then it got worse.
So something is going wrong. Something must be making life in Alabama worse than it used to be a couple of decades earlier. Some malevolent force is pushing life in Alabama away from its natural default state of goodness.
Then it would be wise to do something, anything, differently. Like whacking your malfunctioning microwave with your hand, in hopes that you shake loose whatever component is in a rare state of malfunctioning, and the microwave goes back to its default state of working correctly.
If you look at what Peter Thiel said in support of Donald Trump, it's pretty much exactly that. America is in a strange state of not being able to talk about its problems, said Peter Thiel. Trump isn't part of the existing government-entertainment complex that tiptoes around talking about America's important problems; so flip over the table and hope that things get better. Sure, Trump might break some things. But whatever specific, rare, complicated engine of particular malevolence in Washington DC and the press is preventing social elites from having a frank conversation about Medicare, it will be less likely to continue operating with Donald Trump as President. Peter Thiel always has been an optimist.
On this perspective, most possibilities in the state space are pretty good (under whatever measure you have on the space). So if life instead seems bad, there must be some unusual factor that's forcing things to go poorly, constraining events to the narrow bad part of the possibility space. In which case there's a lot to be said for overturning the table and doing *anything* except more of what you're currently doing, pumping up the entropy and jumping to some indeterminate elsewhere in the possibility space. The most important thing you need in a President is that they not be part of the same malevolent structure that has repeatedly punched you in the nose.
Then there's the other perspective:
Most countries in the world aren't as nice as the United States is right now.
Venezuela used to be an up-and-coming country with one of the fastest-growing economies in South America. And then they elected an impulsive populist leader who made a few decisions he probably didn't think were that bad at the time, and now Venezuela is on the verge of being a failed state.
The good things are fragile. It takes hard work to preserve them, and even people who try to do that sometimes fail. The countries we read about in history books are the rare countries that were competent enough to make it on to the world stage at all. The United States is currently enjoying an unusual position of dominance in world affairs; the US wasn't the center of the world one century earlier. (And yes, that does come with trade privileges and a lot of foreign investment, it does make a difference to your personal standard of living.)
History shows the kind of global prominence the US currently has, can fade very very quickly if a country makes a few wrong moves.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [27 favorites]


Now, mind you, in my assessment of Crumb's work I think he probably was creating more wank material than a social statement about the weirdo underbelly of perfect Republican family

Crumb was a uniquely fucked up person who was self-aware about how fucked up he was, and never created anything that was nothing but pure wank material; yes a lot of it was passable wank material but it all also had some kind of subversive subtext. The documentary about him is worthwhile if you have the slightest interest in his work.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:38 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


What percentage of them are primarily driven by racism? What percentage primarily by bigotry? What percentage by ignorance? By right wing radio? By FOX news? By right wing web? By abortion? By misogyny?

Largest percentage, near as I can tell, are primarily driven by glee in causing deliberate offence to people they perceive as too easy to provoke.

To be fair, this is a nearly universal human impulse. The difference between the bulk of Left and Right responses to it, near as I can make out, is that those on the Right make no distinction at all between punching up and punching down. The pursuit of fairness is simply not a motivating principle for the Right, which is more about endless mouthing off about unfairness i.e. things being given to people who clearly do not deserve them.

The fundamental moral principle underpinning the Right is that other people who do not have things are axiomatically in that condition because they deserve to be. This elegant conflation underlies a worldview as comprehensively toxic yet seductively consistent as that of any diagnosed paranoid. Labelling it as simple bigotry or ignorance massively underestimates its grip. It's not so much "fuck you, I got mine" as "fuck you for thinking you deserve what I have had to earn".

...which is, again, a nearly universal impulse. I know I feel it particularly strongly whenever I look at Trump.

I think that would be something you could sit down and discuss. "Why do you want to call people mean things?"

"For the lulz, Professor Pencilneck. Duh."
posted by flabdablet at 7:41 PM on August 24, 2017 [11 favorites]


Why hasn't anybody created a Part Two of the Trump/Obama Eclipse meme with the eclipse ending and Donald drifting away (preferably with a dismayed look on his face)? Because Eclipses don't last, dummy.

And the R.Crumb comic from 1989 about Trump is classic (in its way).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:42 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


...what is going on in that last panel. God I fucking hate those old "gonzo" cartoonists who were really nothing but misogynistic pornographers. Even when they had a point to make I wanted to throttle them.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:46 PM on August 24, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump voters are, in a certain sense to be described, optimists.

That piece is charitable to an absurd degree. He uses "optimism" to describe people who think that anything—whether as simple as a malfunctioning microwave or as complex as leading the most powerful nation on earth—can be righted on its course by rolling the dice and letting chaos reset to a likely better state.

That's not optimism. That's madness.
posted by Brak at 7:56 PM on August 24, 2017 [21 favorites]


People who blindly vote for a "change" candidate with little thought are one thing. But I'm pissed at the people who bought the whole "change" candidate narrative of Trump as the shoot from the hip to shake up Washington and drain the swamp guy, and Hillary as the corrupt Washington insider.

The narrative presumes that what people dislike about career politicians are the common stereotypes like working for lobbyists and big donors, two-faced evasiveness or lying, backroom dealing, choosing deals that generate personal profit, etc.

If they were hoping Trump would be a change from political corruption, I hope they're not so stupid that they can't even see they're getting the exact opposite now. He's like every corrupt political stereotype turned up to 11.
posted by p3t3 at 7:56 PM on August 24, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm late but I have to:

my brian is pretty tired, too.

Get a brian, marons!
posted by spitbull at 8:01 PM on August 24, 2017 [16 favorites]


If they were hoping Trump would be a change from political corruption, I hope they're not so stupid that they can't even see they're getting the exact opposite now.

The thing about the Right is that it never expects to get anything from governments but corruption. This makes it extremely easy to preserve the illusion that Trump is no worse in that regard than "Crooked Hillary" would have been - plus, Trump has the singular virtue of pissing off the liberals even better than Bush managed to do.
posted by flabdablet at 8:02 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump also ran on an extremely popular message of basically economic socialism. There's no real constituancy for killing Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security, except elected Republicans, their 1% paymasters, and their allied propagandists at the National Review and Wall Street Journal. Trump stole the economic left from Democrats. His economic message wasn't that different that Bernie Sanders. Except he was lying about all of it. He didn't just sound like a change candidate, to the extent he had policies other than racists wall building and deportations, it was a populist, change message in substance as well.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:07 PM on August 24, 2017 [15 favorites]


Well yes, they obviously hate liberals. Hate them bad enough to kill them? When liberal people are their family members, members of their church, neighbors?

Well....yeah. Not their friends or their family, though, it's different for them, but all those other liberals gotta go.


....To lighten the mood, flashing back upthread to the tuba-and-turd march, since maybe turds wouldn't be a great idea - what about tubas that shot glitter AT the marchers?

....Or a marching band playing the "Liberty Bell March". Heck, the marchers may even agree to that - it's a nice patriotic song, by John Phillip Sousa, about that emblematic symbol of freedom and liberty. There couldn't POSSIBLY be any hidden meaning, could there?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 PM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Your plan has received Ministry approval.
posted by flabdablet at 8:18 PM on August 24, 2017 [4 favorites]


glee in causing deliberate offence to people they perceive as too easy to provoke. To be fair, this is a nearly universal human impulse.

Hmm, I can't go along with that, except in the sense that other petty emotions like resentment of minor victories and joy in eating foods you aren't supposed to are nearly universal. (What I think of as Garfield / Cathy humor).

it's a pretty adolescent thrill that I honestly think most mature people have grown out of. (though it remains common among a certain set of uncles and grandpas who tend to drink a lot)
posted by msalt at 8:32 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


National Cathedral speeds up decision on Lee and Jackson windows. “Those windows won’t remain in their current place in their current context” ...The windows were a gift of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and were installed in the 1950s.
This stuff is everywhere.


Invariably donated by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, over many decades. Someone needs to track that group and investigate its funders and active members. I have a strong hunch that the results will be disturbing.
posted by msalt at 8:35 PM on August 24, 2017 [40 favorites]


As Hurricane Harvey is headed for dozens of colonias in Texas, many of them in flood planes, the Border Patrol says it will keep its immigration checkpoints open on the highways. This is staggeringly inhumaine.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on August 24, 2017 [49 favorites]


And @realDonaldTrump just retweeted this from @GregAbbott_TX: "Spoke with Pres. Trump & heads of Homeland Security & FEMA. They're helping Texas respond to #HurricaneHarvey."
posted by christopherious at 8:48 PM on August 24, 2017


RaHoWa is an abbreviated concatenation of "Racial Holy War".

And also one of the three worst RPGs ever created! A non-coincidental common thread: all three systems include fairly significant and explicit real-world racism. RaHoWa has racism as fundamental and central to its entire conceit; F.A.T.A.L. has dumb adolescent stereotypes burned into its magic items; and HYBRID... well, nobody can figure out what the hell it's going on about in the first place, but sometimes it runs randomly off the rails into pronouncements about the inherent qualities of people of certain races.
posted by jackbishop at 8:54 PM on August 24, 2017 [5 favorites]


it's a pretty adolescent thrill that I honestly think most mature people have grown out of.

I'd argue that you think that because you perceive, as I do, that the giving of gratuitous offence is an act capable of inflicting genuine and grievous harm completely out of proportion to the degree of pleasure gained from it.

The trick to avoid having that pleasure spoiled is simply to give no fucks about those to whom the harm may occur.

Among the considerable number of people who continue to employ that trick are those who choose to give no fucks about people they perceive as fundamentally and essentially unlike themselves. Those people end up on the Right.

Others choose to give no fucks about people they perceive as irredeemable members of the first group. Those people end up on the Left.

Occasionally a member of the second group will come to believe that the dichotomy between these two groups constitutes a fundamental and essential difference in and of itself. Those people end up being Christopher Hitchens if capable of actual reasoning, Cory Bernardi or Andrew Bolt if not.
posted by flabdablet at 8:55 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


And @realDonaldTrump just retweeted this from @GregAbbott_TX: "Spoke with Pres. Trump & heads of Homeland Security & FEMA. They're helping Texas respond to #HurricaneHarvey."

Pictured: Abbott whispering sweet nothings to a small, evil robot.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:59 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh man, every time Evan McMullin sends out an email I am reminded that there was a slim chance in a different timeline that he would have stolen the electoral votes away from Trump. His latest:
For those of us who hoped Donald Trump would offer “presidential” leadership after entering the Oval Office, and for those who waited for a “presidential moment” after the terror attack in Charlottesville, this week’s rally in Phoenix made one thing especially clear: the President does not intend to unify our country.

Instead, he continues to pander to fears and prejudices, dividing and misleading our nation.

As we consider that disheartening reality, I’m encouraged by something President Lincoln said in 1862: “We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth.”

His words remind us that America has overcome such tests before and — even when faced with our steepest challenges — equality, liberty and truth have ultimately advanced. When we commit to it, freedom prevails against tyranny and populism.

Our core ideals have guided our progress as a nation, secured victories against foreign and domestic enemies, and propelled our country to prosperity. In contrast, our darkest moments have come when we’ve turned our backs on these ideals.

Though our current generation of leaders rarely defends these principles, they remain essential to overcoming the tribulations we face and reaching a brighter future for all Americans.
posted by corb at 9:12 PM on August 24, 2017 [31 favorites]


As Hurricane Harvey is headed for dozens of colonias in Texas, many of them in flood planes, the Border Patrol says it will keep its immigration checkpoints open on the highways. This is staggeringly inhumaine.

It certainly is. But maybe they'll get their comeuppance for not evacuating, and while they sat there on their fat asses making sure none of the [racial slur]s they so irrationally hate got through the border, nature came through, did its thing, and . . . let's just say it took care of them.

(shrug) A kid can dream.
posted by CommonSense at 10:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've seen at least two alt-right people claim to be half Jewish right before or after attacking other Jewish people.

Is this a thing anyone else has noticed?
posted by Yowser at 10:14 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


I believe Milo Yiannopoulos is in habit of doing that whenever anyone calls him a Nazi, no idea if there's anything to it.
posted by Artw at 10:26 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's like how every fan of the Washington football team is 1/13th Cherokee.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:31 PM on August 24, 2017 [30 favorites]


It's grade A bullshit. 99% of being Jewish is cultural anyways- plus being a certain flavor of inbred a bit, just like any other ethno-religious group. So finding a smidge of Jewish DNA markers on an ancestry test doesn't make you Jewish. But these Alt-Reichers are so obsessed with things like blood and purity and quantum that to them it's either the end of the world, or an opportunity to camouflage their hate behind "oh I'm a 1/4 Jewish so I'm not racist!"
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 10:36 PM on August 24, 2017 [6 favorites]


Let's put it this way: I've never heard a Jewish person describe themselves as half Jewish.
posted by galaxy rise at 10:39 PM on August 24, 2017 [50 favorites]


these Alt-Reichers are so obsessed with things like blood and purity and quantum

Exactly, and it's this and only this that's the basis of the completely adolescent glee I still feel when shit like this happens.
posted by flabdablet at 10:55 PM on August 24, 2017 [3 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House -- Discussed upstream, Decision Desk HQ is forecasting Dems get 54% of vote, but 47% of seats. Personally, I think it's too early to forecast very accurately, since candidates are still getting into races.

** 2018 Senate -- Sabato forecasting no net change in Senate composition. Also moves ND and AZ one notch towards Dems in the forecast.

** Electoral integrity -- Texas has lost yet another court case regarding district boundaries, this one over the 2013 redraw of the state legislative map (itself required because the 2011 was found illegal). This is the eighth or ninth case TX has lost this year regarding voting, I've lost track.

** Odds & ends:
-- GWU Battleground poll has Trump favorable at 41/56.

-- 538 ruminates on Trump approval, they think his bottom is mid-20s.

-- SEIU to dump $100M into Midwest political campaigns in 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 PM on August 24, 2017 [22 favorites]


I've seen at least two alt-right people claim to be half Jewish right before or after attacking other Jewish people.

This is a Thing. Sometimes it's a way to deflect criticism: "how can I be an antisemite if I have Jewish ancestry". You see the same thing in respect to other ethnicities too, of course. Another way this expresses itself is more typical of antisemitism, though: "Yes, there is a Jewish conspiracy and I know all about it because I am half/formerly Jewish myself!" It's related to Derrick Bell's idea of "superstanding", in which members of a minority gain prominence and amplification if they're willing to criticise their own group.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:27 PM on August 24, 2017 [24 favorites]


Yeah, this is a standard alt-right propaganda/disinformation tactic, claiming that they are a member of group X before launching their tirade against group X or policy Y. E.g. when Ukraine was in the news, you would see Russian trolls on different sites saying that "I am a born and bred Minnesota American, but even I can see that Putin is right to send tanks into the Ukraine and Crimea". Or someone saying "I am an African American, but we African Americans need to stop with the baggy shorts and the crime and blah blah blah ."

At this point if someone starts out their writing by saying that they are a member of persecuted group X, and then criticizes X, it immediately raises flags for me in the same way that an email message would if it starts out by saying "This is not spam!" It's not conclusive evidence of malicious lying, but it definitely starts me thinking along that path.
posted by Balna Watya at 11:43 PM on August 24, 2017 [20 favorites]


If I may do a little push for NYC voters here


The Brooklyn DA election is extremely important and I'm currently pushing for Marc Fliedner, an openly gay, openly DSA member with a strong platform of Justice reform and protecting the most at risk citizens from violence, state or otherwise. He's just been endorsed by Our Revolution.

So just, FYI in you're at the ballot.
posted by The Whelk at 11:44 PM on August 24, 2017 [31 favorites]




Yeah, this is a standard alt-right propaganda/disinformation tactic, claiming that they are a member of group X before launching their tirade against group X or policy Y. E

Yeaaaaaah - from what I'm seeing, it's a lot of "alt-right promotes members of group X as long as they toe the party line and lets them believe they will be exempt from the consequences of group X as long as they denounce other members of group X." I mean, this is anecdata as I slowly watch person after person I know get sucked into this, but it seems like they're almost recruiting the disenfranchised and promising to transmute them into Good Citizen if they be a good boy. And it's impossible to defeat - I swear I talked to one of my Jewish friends for hours about the cognitive dissonance involved in talking about his family in the Holocaust as a reason to buddy up to the alt-right, and all it brought me was frustrated tears.
posted by corb at 11:57 PM on August 24, 2017 [9 favorites]


Hey, not feeling depressed enough? The Washington Post has a list of changes the Trump government has managed to accomplish / initiate.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 12:10 AM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, this is a standard alt-right propaganda/disinformation tactic, claiming that they are a member of group X before launching their tirade against group X or policy Y.

I've also seen "How can Trump be anti-Semitic? His daughter and son-in-law are Jewish and he gets along with the Prime Minister of Israel."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:37 AM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


....[Crumb] never created anything that was nothing but pure wank material;

That's hyperbole. Of course he did. For example, A Short History Of America.
posted by thelonius at 12:53 AM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Get a brian, marons!

1972 Eno (for it is he): Hello, there! Time for a juicy new strategy!
posted by Grangousier at 1:02 AM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


There’s a Serious Hennessy Shortage in America, and It’s Actually Donald Trump’s Fault (Seriously)

I'd have guessed Bannon. but still...
posted by acb at 1:10 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Charles M. Blow, NYTimes: Donald Trump, ‘King of Alabama’?
It has become increasingly clear to me after the tragedy of Charlottesville that Donald Trump not only has no interest in being president of the entire country but also is specifically tailoring his so-called presidency to the white racial-grievance apparatus.
posted by mumimor at 1:19 AM on August 25, 2017 [31 favorites]


Yeaaaaaah - from what I'm seeing, it's a lot of "alt-right promotes members of group X as long as they toe the party line and lets them believe they will be exempt from the consequences of group X as long as they denounce other members of group X."

As with almost all things in the world of internet Nazis, this has it's origins in GamerGate: Not Your Shield.
posted by PenDevil at 1:48 AM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump isn't going to deliver shit. He was never going to change anything,

Don't know about the shit delivery - but if things were going along fine, would these threads be as long as they are? He *IS* changing things and I keep hoping he's the reason the next law that makes deep changes like FOIA happens.

Like the voting methods changes. Taking the 2 party system and breaking it because that system of unranked voting is how he got the office.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:06 AM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


....[Crumb] never created anything that was nothing but pure wank material;

That's hyperbole. Of course he did. For example, A Short History Of America.


*fap fap fap fap*
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


I think I might understand a little better now, how Peter Thiel could possibly, possibly be supporting Donald Trump; and how it is that non-white and non-male voters suddenly turned into the guardians standing against the fall of night.
Trump voters are, in a certain sense to be described, optimists.


Yudkowsky is doing a lot of work to ignore the evidence that Thiel -- and Trump's voters -- are by and large white supremacists. I mean, sure, Thiel was ready to address a white supremacist-affiliated conference before bad publicity shot him down, and sure, he seems to do things like fund and even perhaps teach sham university courses that promote the idea that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable,”, but really....he's an optimist who sees Trump as a "change agent!"

It is amazing how much work people have done, and continue to do, to find *any* explanation for the Trump phenomenon other than a white supremacist backlash to an African-American President, coupled to the classic historical theme of nativist, ethno-nationalist populism emerging in a time of extreme inequality and loss of middle-class opportunities.

It is not the belief that "things need to change so everyone can do better," it is the belief that "the only reason We can't have Nice Things is that Those People over there are inherently parasitical and have committed the unforgivable crime of existing and wanting Nice Things too." Their economic anxiety is built on a much deeper foundation of gender and racial anxiety.

This sort of movement borrows and hollows out the rhetoric of bright technological futures, social safety nets, economic equality, and shared prosperity precisely to argue that these things are a zero-sum game and must be "taken back from Them" via brutalization, dehumanization. It is the argument that every member of the cultural/ethnic majority can have the job and the living standard and the adoration to which they feel entitled because that status and those economic goods will be taken from Those People, and Those People put in their place....or simply eradicated by force. That is its "optimism," and that is its "change."

You know...fascism.
posted by kewb at 3:41 AM on August 25, 2017 [90 favorites]


Just for the record: the Crumb comic in question is "Joe Blow" from Zap #4. That comic was busted and there were court cases and eventually the judges agreed that the comic was satire. And it was. It's too much of a derail to argue the finer points of Crumb's work here, but the easy (and silly) critique that "it's all just wank comics" have caused me to doubt the critical faculties of Mefites in general and now I'm rethinking Confederate statues and other stuff that I thought I was in basic agreement with you guys on.
(Of course, that's what Crumb was all about -- getting folks to re-examine...
Hey! I'm gonna go read some comix!)
posted by CCBC at 3:46 AM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


And @realDonaldTrump just retweeted this from @GregAbbott_TX: "Spoke with Pres. Trump & heads of Homeland Security & FEMA. They're helping Texas respond to #HurricaneHarvey."

We have always been at war with Hurricane Harvey.

And you may find yourself
Sitting in a White House
With a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself,
"Well . . . how did I get here?"

posted by petebest at 4:50 AM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump isn't going to deliver shit. He was never going to change anything,
Ari Melber had a couple of guys on yesterday who argued that Dems are making a mistake going after the Trump circus act. Instead they should attack Trump's policies, which have far less support than he personally does. Trump the political suicide bomber has like 35% of the country, but only 12% liked Trumpcare. A wall paid for by taxpayers has like 26% support. People don't want to kick transgender people out of the military or enforce federal marijuana rules or leave the Paris accords. You'll never get the diehard Trump supporter, but if you attack policy you can snag wobbly independents who voted for Trump out of pique or misogyny or Clinton Derangement Syndrome rather than on policy grounds. Or so the theory goes.

The other main contention was that we need a charismatic candidate who actually represents the ideals that Trump merely performs--he's on YOUR side, he cares about YOU, he's just like you, he speaks his mind. That's harder to do, because, let's face it, not many Democrats can manage to pull off that "folksy" everyman thing that Bill Clinton and Bush, Jr. can get away with. Obama was charismatic because he was a gifted speaker, but he never tried to hide his education. His eternal optimism was even something of a turnoff because it felt like he wasn't listening. Trump and Bernie stood up on their podiums crying out that life is shit and we need to fix it. Clinton and Obama talked about standing together and fixing what's wrong with America with what's great about America. Lovely in theory but feels dismissive.

Of course, the other massive problem (as noted above) is that gerrymandering for political purposes disenfranchises voters. HOW the Supreme Court cannot recognize this, I have no idea. Social liberalism and the welfare state are actually pretty popular ideas in this country, but you'd never know it based on who gets to govern. If you'll pardon the comparison, it's like Democrats have to do everything Republicans do, but backwards and wearing heels.
posted by xyzzy at 4:55 AM on August 25, 2017 [32 favorites]


Liberals support Israel (if they do at all) out of sympathy for generations of antisemitism, the holocaust, the desire for a safe space. Conservatives support Israel because it's a model state for what they want here: one ethnic/religious group ruling, leaving democracy behind as the demographics become infeasible.
posted by rikschell at 5:25 AM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump and Bernie stood up on their podiums crying out that life is shit and we need to fix it. Clinton and Obama talked about standing together and fixing what's wrong with America with what's great about America.

White men can call shit out; if Clinton had tried that, she would have been labeled shrewish (well, even more shrewish) and Obama would have been labeled an angry black man.
posted by carrienation at 5:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [64 favorites]


...one ethnic/religious group ruling...

The close on 50% of Jewish Israeli's who's ethnicity originates in the Middle East and North Africa would like a word. Also 2/3 of Jews in Israel are secular.

Christian Conservative support Israel because it has to exist, and all the Jews in it have to die, so that Jesus can come back.
posted by PenDevil at 5:38 AM on August 25, 2017 [28 favorites]


This interview is cause for optimism. The future of the Democratic Party is, I hope, Medicare for all. If Democrats frame the debate properly, the Republican Party can't argue against it without arguing against Medicare itself.

In 1961 Ronald Reagan made a record predicting that Medicare would lead to tyranny. And today, Paul Ryan complains that the healthy have to subsidize the sick. In between, Ayn Rand wrote a bunch of bad novels. The Republican Party really wants to argue against Medicare; they just don't dare because it's a political mine field.

Which is why Democrats need to stop backing down from pointing out that yes, the Republicans really do want to abolish Medicare, even if the so-called "fact checkers" tut-tut that the Republican proposal would keep a program called "Medicare" in place, despite it not actually providing usable coverage.

The Republicans accuse Democrats of all sorts of nonsense. The Democrats need to point out what the Republicans really want to do, and never stop.
posted by Gelatin at 5:40 AM on August 25, 2017 [22 favorites]


I'm a bit fuzzy on how "I don't like war" could ever equate to "Trump is the better choice" in anyone's worldview who wasn't 100% in the conservative tank already. But of course I'm 0% in that tank, so I'm biased that way.

As for "Trump voters were all racist," there are degrees to all things. Is voting from pure self-interest -- I think voting for Trump will result in laws and policies that will benefit me directly -- racism if it's obvious that said benefit to you will affect many minorities negatively? If you choose not to care about that? If it never occurs to you to even consider that effect? If you are trusting media that are inherently biased to help you make sense of all this?

Many will say "obviously, yes" to all of those. But that's not how they see it.
posted by delfin at 5:49 AM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Republicans accuse Democrats of all sorts of nonsense.
This is so true. I have an acquaintance who voted against Obama because he was gonna take his guns. He was voting against HRC for the same reason.

At one point, exasperated, I asked him, "Did Obama take your guns?"
"No, but the SAFE Act!"
"That's NYS. Did OBAMA take your guns?"
"No."
"And despite the SAFE Act, you do still have more than a dozen pistols and long guns?"
"Yes."
"THEN WHAT ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT?"

No answer, of course. He voted for Trump, of course. LOL. I don't know why I bother.
posted by xyzzy at 6:05 AM on August 25, 2017 [36 favorites]


Back in 2015 I was told that Obama, knowing it wasn't feasible to go around the country and pry all the guns out of all the cold dead fingers, instead sneakily closed all the lead mines. That's why there are no bullets to be had.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:12 AM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]



Just a quick note: Stay safe Texas. Wish I could do more than sit up here and worry.
posted by Jalliah at 6:24 AM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


I thought it was Obama ordering Homeland Security to stipulate excessive amounts of reserves of ammunition in supplier contracts that was the cause of the shortage?

(at least that's what I remember was going around on facebook)
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2017


Thanks for the feedback re: "half-Jewish" For what it's worth, the two alt-right people were the eclipse t-shirt guy (I watched his excruciating apology video) and some lawyer for a think tank who attacked the ADL viciously for compiling a list of hate mongers.

I just checked the video of the lawyer, who does interviews with Laura Loomer, hashtags "tradlife," and has mysteriously started claiming that the alt-right isn't the GOPs problem. He ALSO doesn't say something like "I have a Jewish parent;" he says specifically that he's "half-jewish"

That's kind of interesting and/or a little scary.
posted by Yowser at 6:43 AM on August 25, 2017


(For what it's worth, I hate that things have gotten bad enough that I've actually started watching their videos. They're HORRIBLE at making videos and say in half an hour what could be said with two paragraphs)
posted by Yowser at 6:45 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Some days, it feels like the game is Flipping Tables, Minesweeper edition.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:51 AM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Jalliah: This stuff is everywhere.

Correction: this stuff was everywhere, but now we're making a swift and concerted effort to remove the celebratory memorials of the Confederacy. Yes, there's still a lot of them up around the country, but there are fewer every day.

Thanks Trump!
posted by filthy light thief at 6:59 AM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Three sites tracking Trump's campaign promises:

Track Trump
Tracking Trump's Campaign Promises
Trump Tracker

They use different methodologies, but the takeaway is most of his promises are broken or not started. Track Trump is based on Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter, which were things he promised to do in his first 100 days.

Dumb motherfuckers removed the press release about the Contract with the American Voter from the website, but left the PDF.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:06 AM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


But that's not how they see it.

I mean, of course they don't, but some of the actual active white supremacists will usually phrase their support for white supremacy in ways that seem very reminiscent: It's not about hating other groups, it's about wanting to build a good life for white people and their families! If it's 2017 and you've lived your whole life in a world that everybody's been trying to tell you that the current system is hurting POC for no reason and you insist on making decisions that keep things that way because any evening of the playing field will no longer give you an unfair advantage? It doesn't matter if you're comfortable thinking about yourself as a racist or not.
posted by Sequence at 7:13 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump distances himself from GOP lawmakers to avoid blame if agenda stalls
President Trump is strategically separating himself from Republicans in Congress, an extraordinary move to deflect blame if the GOP agenda continues to flounder.
"Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:14 AM on August 25, 2017 [27 favorites]


OnceUponATime: The charitable answer to "what do they want that they are willing to take up arms for?" I stated this way in old comments....
"A society organized around extended families, where people have duties primarily to family, receive support primarily from family, and fit into social roles depending on their place in the family structure... A society where old people are cared for by their adult daughters or daughters in law, and children are cared for by grandmothers when their mothers are busy, and wealth is passed parent to child along with family businesses or farms."
...
"Kids defer to their parents. Even adults who are parents typically defer to their own parents, lest they lose the support of the family. And if you come from a rich/powerful family, you are entitled to the benefits that gives you over someone who does not."
As I've noted before: 1) the modern Republican party and its propaganda arms, Fox News, Breitbart, etc. are a cult, and 2) cults prey upon the lonely and isolated. There are a lot of lonely, isolated people, especially men. Obviously, not all of them are MRAs or Republicans or right-wing, but the appeal of right-wing authoritarianism to white men in particular is notable.

Many of these men crave but cannot create close relationships. So they want to go back to a time where close relationships were a given, and even the most toxic, abusive people were owed family loyalty. There are plenty of mostly older Republican women as well, yearning for the Good Old Days when mothers could count on their grown children giving them grandchildren and keeping them in their lives even in the face of abuse.

I'm reminded of Robert Frost's Death of a Hired Man - home is where they have to take you in, it's something you haven't to deserve. I, a feminist and an individualist, think it's a good thing that women and children, in particular, have the option of walking away from toxic faaaaaamily and that you don't have to keep toxic people in your life. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see that and go "Hmm, time to be a nicer person so people will want to be around me" but rather yearn for what Masha Gessen calls radical simplicity.

It's a thorny and hard to solve problem of our times, what to do about lonely isolated people without abrogating the rights of others to their own lives free of toxic people, or even just freedom to move away from family to a city where there are jobs.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:18 AM on August 25, 2017 [69 favorites]


I believe Milo Yiannopoulos

We had a nice long run not evoking the name of this garbage person. Let's do that again.
posted by archimago at 7:18 AM on August 25, 2017 [61 favorites]


In the disturbing thoughts category....

In the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey, one thing to watch, in the coming months, is whether or not the Trump administration and the Congressional Republicans actually put through much in rebuilding funds. Most of the places about to be devastated vote Democratic and in the past there has been significant Republican resistance to funding rebuilding in Democratic areas. New Orleans never did get full funding and a lot of Republican legislators see that, and its population drop and loss of legislators, as a good thing.

I have the strong suspicion that any funding that is approved will go to the mostly rural areas between Corpus Christi and Houston, but very little will be spent on Corpus and points east of it, or on Houston.

In the wake of the use of relief funds for Katrina and Sandy being allocated in a a way all but designed to punish Democrats and reward Republicans, I don't think I'm paranoid to think that Harvey relief funds will similarly be dolled out more on the basis of partisan benefit than actual need.
posted by sotonohito at 7:19 AM on August 25, 2017 [24 favorites]


That's why there are no bullets to be had.

I'm pretty sure this is you being sarcastic, but if you hear someone actually talking about that seriously, feel free to tell him this: that they are a fucking idiot, and ammunition shortages are happening because of the same reason ammunition shortages always happen – bulk panic buying. The reason shortages happened during Obama's term is because people were afraid of Obama.
posted by corb at 7:23 AM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


but very little will be spent on Corpus and points east of it, or on Houston.

You are forgetting that both of those cities are vital to the oil industry. There will be money spent on them.
posted by emjaybee at 7:27 AM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump has been whining and bitching this morning already – 'I can't get anything done because of those damn Dems' followed within minutes by 'I've done more than any president in history' plus attacks on another Republican, Corker – but this will I'm sure lead to some choice tweets.

Gary Cohn criticizes Trump's Charlottesville response
Gary Cohn told the Financial Times that he felt "enormous pressure" following Trump's response to Charlottesville, where the president blamed "both sides" for the violence that broke out.
"This administration can and must do better in consistently and unequivocally condemning these groups and do everything we can to heal the deep divisions that exist in our communities."

"I have come under enormous pressure both to resign and to remain in my current position. As a patriotic American, I am reluctant to leave my post... But I also feel compelled to voice my distress over the events of the last two weeks... Citizens standing up for equality and freedom can never be equated with white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and the KKK."
Why it matters: A source close to Trump predicts he will explode when he reads the Cohn interview.

It's got all the ingredients to enrage the president:
- a subordinate criticizing him, and an effective endorsement of how the mainstream media portrayed the events.
- Consider the amount of time Trump spent on stage in Phoenix, Tuesday, telling the crowd that his response to Charlottesville was perfect but the "fake news" intentionally distorted it.
- The way Trump will see it, Cohn is siding with the fake news.
posted by chris24 at 7:30 AM on August 25, 2017 [33 favorites]


Trump's Director of the National Economic Council is Gary Cohn, who is Jewish and has finally spoken out about the Charlottesville business...
“Citizens standing up for equality and freedom can never be equated with white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and the KKK. I believe this administration can and must do better in consistently and unequivocally condemning these groups and do everything we can to heal the deep divisions that exist in our communities.”
Yes, all good, continue...
“As a Jewish American, I will not allow neo-Nazis ranting ‘Jews will not replace us’ to cause this Jew to leave his job,” he added.
... "As someone targeted by Nazis, I will not allow Nazis to discourage me from collaborating with and enabling Nazi sympathizers. Nice try, Nazis!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [53 favorites]


msalt: Someone needs to track [United Daughters of the Confederacy] and investigate its funders and active members. I have a strong hunch that the results will be disturbing.

Southern Poverty Law Center: Neo-Confederates (September 15, 2000)
As the battle over removing the Confederate battle flag from atop the South Carolina Capitol heated up this year, leaders of relatively mainstream groups like the Heritage Preservation Association, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy shared the podium with the likes of the LOS and the Council of Conservative Citizens — despite the latter groups' clearly expressed racism.
...
United Daughters of the Confederacy
Richmond, Va.

Formed in 1894 from the remnants of local memorial associations affiliated with Confederate veterans camps, the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC) is open only to women related to Confederate veterans of what the UDC still calls the "War Between the States."
The section on UDC continues and calls out UDC publications that state "the worse suffering group among those engaged in the [slave] trade" were "the crews of slave ships," and some of the UDC-supported monuments were erected in coordination with two racist groups, the Council of Conservative Citizens and the League of the South.

You don't need to dig too far to find the links between UDC and white supremacy.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [20 favorites]


Crumb was a uniquely fucked up person who was self-aware about how fucked up he was

Dude's still alive, Bringer Tom.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:37 AM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: The Hill DOJ drops request for IP addresses from Trump resistance site

UPDATE: Government Can Search Inauguration Protest Website Records, With Safeguards (NPR, Aug. 24, 2017)
The judge said he had to balance two legitimate interests — free speech and law enforcement needs — and ultimately ruled for a two-step warrant process with additional safeguards.

He said the Department of Justice will need to specify in advance which people would have access to the data, describe how they would be filtering or searching through it and present the courts with a detailed list of what they had seized and why.

The Department of Justice would also be barred from sharing the data with anyone else, including other government agencies, and would need to design and present a system to "minimize" the impact on users not charged with crimes. It's not clear what such a system would look like.

In the meantime, DreamHost is supposed to pull all the data together and deliver it to the government; the Department of Justice will agree to not search through the data until they have the go-ahead from the courts.

Lawyers for DreamHost say they are evaluating their options, including the possibility of appeal. The Department of Justice declined to comment on a pending case.
That two-step process is to 1) acquire all the data, then 2) sort the innocuous content and only "seize" the relevant evidence; except to do #2, you have to go through everything, and it sounds like some of that filtering will be done by people.

They're fishing for evidence of planning crimes. Such broad access could have a chilling effect on future mass protests. Fight the good fight, DreamHost! I don't particularly trust this administration to follow regulations to "not peak until we say so," and really follow any safeguards.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:47 AM on August 25, 2017 [26 favorites]


Instead they should attack Trump's policies, which have far less support than he personally does. Trump the political suicide bomber has like 35% of the country, but only 12% liked Trumpcare. A wall paid for by taxpayers has like 26% support. People don't want to kick transgender people out of the military or enforce federal marijuana rules or leave the Paris accords. You'll never get the diehard Trump supporter, but if you attack policy you can snag wobbly independents who voted for Trump out of pique or misogyny or Clinton Derangement Syndrome rather than on policy grounds. Or so the theory goes.

Unfortunately, it's been shown that that voters tend to assume that candidates agree with them on policy if they like the candidate on a personal level.

In fact, some research suggests that if people are shown that their preferred candidate does not share their policy positions, they will change their policy preferences to resolve the resulting cognitive dissonance.
posted by kewb at 7:48 AM on August 25, 2017 [43 favorites]


And a reminder of how far from normal we are, and how the Trump presidency has already numbed us broadly and generally to his ongoing violations, when he plugged his Charlottesville winery at a last week, the pitch hardly made headlines (NPR, Aug. 24, 2017)
Kathleen Clark, a professor of legal and government ethics: "We're so used to Trump conflicts of interest and abuse of office that when he promotes his vineyard and lies about it, it's just a blip."
...
"The question isn't, how can we use this to strengthen our hand politically? It's instead, how can we avoid application of any restriction, anything that would get in the way of our financially benefiting and exploiting government office? And that is unprecedented."
Emphasis mine -- Trump did boast about making money from being president, so that's an accurate statement, even if Trump Wine is built on acres of lies (Noah Rothbaum for The Daily Beast, March 10, 2016)

In fact, recent coverage of Trump's winery promotion focuses on his lies, not his ethics violations.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on August 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
General John Kelly is doing a fantastic job as Chief of Staff. There is tremendous spirit and talent in the W.H. Don't believe the Fake News
3:40 AM - 25 Aug 2017
RIP General Kelly, we hardly knew ye.
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on August 25, 2017 [51 favorites]


White men can call shit out; if Clinton had tried that, she would have been labeled shrewish (well, even more shrewish) and Obama would have been labeled an angry black man.

Warren's entire political career has been pointing out that life is shit for the middle class, and trying to fix it. So there's something more complex going on here.
posted by Coventry at 8:09 AM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


> Correction: this stuff was everywhere, but now we're making a swift and concerted effort to remove the celebratory memorials of the Confederacy. Yes, there's still a lot of them up around the country, but there are fewer every day.

Yes, and unlike the War on Christmas and Political Correctness Run Amok, this effort is real, happening and successful. It's precisely the sort of thing the culture warriors assumed Trump would protect them from. It's symbolism that's clear to them, and it wounds them where they're fearful and vulnerable. Honestly, I think this is one of the most important things I've seen seen 11/09.
posted by klarck at 8:14 AM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


Lawyers for DreamHost say they are evaluating their options, including the possibility of appeal. The Department of Justice declined to comment on a pending case.

Go to the mat on this DreamHost. And I wonder, do the users affected by the search warrant have any expectation of privacy in this? Are they ALSO potential complainants/plaintiffs?
posted by mikelieman at 8:18 AM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


TPM's Sam Thielman has another story exploring the shady connections between Donald Trump, Felix Sater, the Bayrock Group, and Sater's highly irregularly sentencing process (previously).

How Could Donald Trump Have Not Known About Felix Sater’s Dark Past?

Trump’s selective memory is just another confounding aspect of his long-standing relationship with one of his primary finance partners through the Bayrock Group, Felix Sater. His efforts to distance himself from Sater stretch back a decade, even as Sater claims that he continued to work on Trump projects until as recently as late 2015. Even after Trump took office, Sater was involved with floating a purported plan for a Russia-friendly foreign policy toward Ukraine to the administration by way of his childhood friend, Trump lawyer Michael Cohen.

In December 2007, Trump was shocked! to discover that Sater had a fraud conviction, he told the New York Times.

“We never knew that,” he said. [...]

Oberlander believes, too, that Trump knew about Sater’s convictions and stayed involved; indeed, it’s difficult to understand how he couldn’t have known. Thanks to Oberlander, it also became clear that Sater’s sentencing was kept secret—that did not come until 2009, to the annoyance even of the judge in the case, Leo I. Glasser, who said at the time that keeping Sater in limbo for 11 years since his conviction was in itself a kind of sentence.
Felix Sater, his hidden financial dealings, and his relationship with United States Government Law Enforcement, I believe, are key to understanding and unraveling Trump's dealings in the post-Soviet criminal underworld. Sater seems to have essentially never paid restitution to his fraud victims and entered into some sweetheart deal with the FBI that has implications for "National Security". None of this shit sits right with me. I bet Mueller looking reaaal hard at Sater too.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:20 AM on August 25, 2017 [20 favorites]


Warren's entire political career has been pointing out that life is shit for the middle class, and trying to fix it. So there's something more complex going on here.

Perhaps you've missed the vicious attacks against her. Nevertheless, she persisted.
posted by adamg at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2017 [48 favorites]


Oh my god, is THAT why he respects generals even when they're good? Is there an alternate timeline where someone just signs him up as an enlisted man in the Army and he's like, some kind of mediocre staff sergeant somewhere right now?

No, there's no way that Trump has the grit to make senior NCO. He'd have bounced in and out and then have been sucked back into the family business.
posted by jaduncan at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Warren's entire political career has been pointing out that life is shit for the middle class, and trying to fix it. So there's something more complex going on here.

Check out the comments on one of Elizabeth Warren's Facebook posts sometime. Yeah, her male colleagues get flack, but nothing like the sexist vitriol targeted at her.
posted by camyram at 8:23 AM on August 25, 2017 [37 favorites]


Seriously, I don't know how Warren does it in the face of all the nastiness thrown her way. She's a remarkable person.
posted by agregoli at 8:30 AM on August 25, 2017 [20 favorites]


How Could Donald Trump Have Not Known About Felix Sater’s Dark Past?

I always find myself bemused and vaguely horrified by these kinds of articles, like they're still trying to grant that maybe he isn't a ravening maw of horror? At what point can you just say "a monster lives here", news media?
posted by corb at 8:33 AM on August 25, 2017 [23 favorites]


Y'know if Trump stays in office long enough his administration might have 100% turnover
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:35 AM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


At what point can you just say "a monster lives here", news media?

YOU WOULD THINK!! Alas, not to be, the WSJ editor just majorly berated its staff for doing this too much, of course...
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


In fact, recent coverage of Trump's winery promotion focuses on his lies, not his ethics violations.

It's kinda old news, but the story of how Trump bought the winery is good reading:
As with his policy proposals, The Donald left out most of the details that day. Like, say, the multiple lawsuits that, among other things, generated a paper trail giving us a much more transparent view of Trump the negotiator than we might have if he’d actually been negotiating with a foreign regime.

Drill down and you discover there’s plenty to learn about Trump from this particular transaction. For one, he’d rather get sued than pay full price. For another, he won’t let an old friendship stand in the way of a good bargain. And while he may not enjoy getting bogged down in contractual fine print, he sure does love picking out drapes.

One more thing: When he wants to, Donald Trump can be the neighbor from hell.
In addition to his usual financial shenanigans, Trump bought the land surrounding the winery at bargain prices, left that surrounding property unkempt, put up no trespassing signs and hired private security to harass anybody trying to enter or leave the winery grounds to drive down the asking price for the winery and mansion.

Also, like Hitler becoming an artist, the world would be a better place if Trump had followed his true passion to be an interior decorator:
Woolard leads me past a curving stairway, plastered with floor-to-ceiling wallpaper designed to look like billowing gold fabric—another relic of 1980s nouveau riche. I ask about it because it’s impossible not to. It’s original to the house, and there was debate, Woolard says, about taking it down. But “Mr. Trump loves it”—and when it comes to decor, Mr. Trump makes the final calls. When outfitting the mansion, Woolard and an interior designer narrowed down window and wall coverings, furniture, and fixtures to three options for Trump to select from. Says Woolard: “He decides in two seconds.”

That is Trump’s gift, and maybe also his curse. Asked to explain how his dad’s dealmaking skills would apply in the White House, Eric offers this: “There’s no one who’s better at cutting through red tape and nonsense than him. It’s not getting deterred by the 4 million pages of due diligence, because that’s what kills a deal.”
Yep, nothing worse than due diligence getting in the way of a deal.
posted by peeedro at 8:36 AM on August 25, 2017 [40 favorites]


RIP General Kelly, we hardly knew ye.

I think Kelly is going to last longer than people expect because Trump has a military fetish and enjoys being able to boss a GENERAL. And at the same time he's made to feel like he's working with big, mighty and his fantasies of manly men. Generals accept him! Generals work for him! And in a weird way at least for a time is okay with "Mr President this is how we do it in the military' will work because it makes him feel more important and like he's part of the military.

He will eventually get bored and annoyed like he always does. He'll mess up despite it all. I just think it will take more time for him to completely turn on his generals because of what generals as a thing represent in his mind.
posted by Jalliah at 8:46 AM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


Inside Trump's Renovated Oval Office: Subtle Cream Wallpaper, Many More Flags
...a first glimpse at the President's new and improved work space reveals only a few minor changes, including an extra American flag (or two), additional military flags representative of each branch and new, subtly printed cream wallpaper to replace the vertical yellow and white striped pattern.
The new rug is, uh, not to my tastes.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:47 AM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Wallpaper, flag, furniture = Nice
Curtain, lamps, rug = Not nice
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:51 AM on August 25, 2017


The new rug is, uh, not to my tastes.

Did he finally give up on the combover?
posted by Gelatin at 8:52 AM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


The new rug is, uh, not to my tastes.

i thought it really tied the room together
posted by pyramid termite at 8:58 AM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


Warren's entire political career has been pointing out that life is shit for the middle class, and trying to fix it. So there's something more complex going on here.

Time and exposure. Nothing more.

Hillary Clinton has been in the public eye much longer than Warren. They both get this crap, but Hillary has been getting it longer, with more vehemence, because she was closer to the top and she was in the public eye longer. That doesn't mean Warren doesn't suffer it, too. She just hasn't been as big a target on the field for as long. If Warren ran for president, you can bet your ass things would get just as batshit.

If Liz Warren can shout louder and hit harder than Hillary Clinton, it's because she's not fighting as many old injuries from older battles. But she's got her own and I goddamn guarantee you if she picked up the game from Clinton's spot on the field the narrative would quickly become just as nasty.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:03 AM on August 25, 2017 [57 favorites]


It's not a "new" rug, that was from the Reagan White House. Here is Reagan in 1989 and here's a picture of GWB on it in 2001. It was installed back when Trump first moved in and changed out the drapes.
posted by peeedro at 9:11 AM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Inside Trump's Renovated Oval Office: Subtle Cream Wallpaper, Many More Flags
...a first glimpse at the President's new and improved work space reveals only a few minor changes, including an extra American flag (or two), additional military flags representative of each branch and new, subtly printed cream wallpaper to replace the vertical yellow and white striped pattern.
The new rug is, uh, not to my tastes.


Super design nit-picky comment here. Trump apparently chose it all, mostly on his own. I'm sure he's happy. My thoughts when seeing some pictures of him in it is that for a guy who thinks of himself as a master of publicity and optics he chose shitty. I've seen some pictures of him at his desk and the gold curtains wash him out. In many his head/hair blends right in with them. His hair looks almost the same color in pictures. I can't unsee this now. It's amusing.
One example There are many more if you google pics of Trump in the office

These are also example of poor photo set-up. Obama had darker curtains but if you google Pics of Obama there are far fewer where the pic is taken with the curtains directly in the background.

It's petty I know. Among many other things, in my mind he is also now 'the President whose hair blends in with his curtains.'
posted by Jalliah at 9:11 AM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


Hillary has been getting it longer, with more vehemence, because she was closer to the top and she was in the public eye longer.

Hillary has been getting hate from the media and the Republican party ever since she was First Lady of Arkansas. The hate that was thrown at her during the election had over thirty years to be ginned up (she became First Lady of Arkansas in 1979. It's depressing to think that HRC has faced all this mudslinging since I was in high school - and I'm no spring chicken!)

I think that makes HRC an exception, not in the misogyny she faces but in the number of years she has been used for fodder by what I have to say is a hate machine. I normally don't like conspiracy-laced hyperbole, but there does seem to be a "Clinton derangement syndrome" on both sides. (See? Both sides do it!)

I don't want to see Elizabeth Warren, or any other woman in politics, face what HRC has had to face. The difference with Warren (and others) is that the hate machine hasn't had as many years to go after her, so not so much of a head start. And now there isn't "just" the mainstream media to contend with; there's Breitbart and Infowars giving a loud voice to people who sincerely believe the most bizarre of conspiracies.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:13 AM on August 25, 2017 [34 favorites]


It's also worth noting: if Warren and other prominent women in politics don't have to face what Hillary has, they have Hillary to thank for going through the worst of it first.

The single best argument for "Why would Hillary put up with all this shit?" I've ever seen was "So the next woman doesn't have to."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:15 AM on August 25, 2017 [99 favorites]


Inside Trump's Renovated Oval Office: Subtle Cream Wallpaper, Many More Flags

The carpet does not in fact match the drapes.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:16 AM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just breaking on the Washington Post: Trump administration slaps new financial penalties on the Venezuelan government
The sanctions would bar dealings in new bonds and stocks issued by the government and state oil company.
A statement issued by the White House said, “These measures are carefully calibrated to deny the Maduro dictatorship a critical source of financing to maintain its illegitimate rule.”
Another WaPo piece by Greg Miller: At CIA, a watchful eye on Mike Pompeo, the president’s ardent ally
As CIA director, Mike Pompeo has taken a special interest in an agency unit that is closely tied to the investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, requiring the Counterintelligence Mission Center to report directly to him.

Officials at the center have, in turn, kept a watchful eye on Pompeo, who has repeatedly played down Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and demonstrated a willingness to engage in political skirmishes for President Trump.

Current and former officials said that the arrangement has been a source of apprehension among the CIA’s upper ranks and that they could not recall a time in the agency’s history when a director faced a comparable conflict.
It sounds like the rank-and-file CIA personnel distrust the Director. That situation doesn't sound like a recipe for disaster or anything.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:16 AM on August 25, 2017 [26 favorites]


I've been following Breitbart so I can push back on their lies in the comments. The number one target for their hate right now is Maxine Waters. But Warren, Kamela Harris, and of course Nancy Pelosi certainly come in for more than their fair share.

In Breitbart's world Bernie Sanders is a kook, but Elizabeth Warren is a threat.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:21 AM on August 25, 2017 [21 favorites]


Good points upthread, Rosie. I've sensed something like the idealized radical simplicity you mentioned going on for a while now, but hadn't been able to nail it down in that way.

Seems like for such people, their problems are twofold: they want everything to stay the same as it "used to be" in their mythology (which just happens to privilege themselves), and they can't square with the fact that the further society moves away from their idealized past, the more everything would have to change to go back—meaning they are, in fact, arguing for ever-more-radical change, in the name of "keeping everything the way it was."

Which is why I scoff when people refer to today's Republicans as "conservatives." I mean, some of them are, but mostly they're a bunch of radically regressive people who would subject us all to huge, mostly stupid changes that don't take into account anything about the way society actually is.
posted by Rykey at 9:27 AM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


I've seen some pictures of him at his desk and the gold curtains wash him out. In many his head/hair blends right in with them. His hair looks almost the same color in pictures. I can't unsee this now. It's amusing.

WHY DID I LOOK I can't unsee it either.
posted by saysthis at 9:29 AM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Go back. Clinton got hate at her university graduation ceremony!
posted by Yowser at 9:41 AM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo, channels Gary Cohn: My letter of not quite resignation from the Trump White House
We must protect the most fragile and vulnerable among us. And if there is anything I have learned from the past decade of Supreme Court decisions, it is that the most fragile and vulnerable among us are corporations, whether national or multinational.

Charlottesville and the events of the past two weeks have been harrowing, certainly. But when I think of that little corporate tax cut, alone and friendless and just starting out in the world, my heart breaks a little. We have agreed to such a good policy skeleton, and not the kind of skeleton that you see on the helmets of neo-Nazis.

Think of all the corporation headquarters, lost and alone, on a hostile shore, when they could be here. I have to protect them from BATs and all other dark, unseemly things that fly in the night and steal away their profits. Who will protect the three big deductions? Who will kill the estate tax? Who will remove the death tax? If not me, then who? (Other, non-me people, probably. Fine.)

I go home to my family, and they hiss at me, audibly. I tell myself that they are just excited for the new Taylor Swift album, but in my heart I know they are not.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:43 AM on August 25, 2017 [24 favorites]


I kind of like the wallpaper though? I'm not a wallpaper person in general but its not the worst thing I've ever seen.
posted by Justinian at 9:43 AM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hurricane season is upon us and Trump hasn't even nominated anyone to head NOAA, to which I say, good, because whoever Trump would pick would surely be far worse than this guy who is a career civil servant.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:44 AM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


My letter of not quite resignation from the Trump White House

Give the guy a participation trophy for almost having principles.
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on August 25, 2017


Peedro is right, that Trump winery story is must-read material. Christ what an asshole.
posted by Bringer Tom at 9:47 AM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Gannett: The Secret Service, which is currently unable to pay its agents the overtime they are due, spent $7,100 renting luxury portable toilets for Trump's Bedminster trip.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:49 AM on August 25, 2017 [25 favorites]


To be clear, though, it's not that they don't have the money to pay their agents, it's that overtime pay is capped at a certain amount by Congress - I think something like 178K? - and they don't have enough agents to not be adding overtime.
posted by corb at 9:54 AM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Secret Service, which is currently unable to pay its agents the overtime they are due, spent $7,100 renting luxury portable toilets for Trump's Bedminster trip.

So, how does this work exactly? These are people who spend time in training for life-and-death situations but can't tell a man "sorry, that won't be possible"? Yeah, I know it's Trump, but I'm missing something here.
posted by Melismata at 9:58 AM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


'Leave it to Donald Trump to find a way to spend thousands of taxpayer dollars on a port-a-potty, ' American Bridge spokesperson Brad Bainum said. 'This man is literally flushing our money down the toilet.'
I am in a world of shit.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:02 AM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


I vaguely recall that there's a term for being forced to work for no pay.

Which, by the way, is something else the Democrats should take up -- one of the ways companies get away with downsizing / outsourcing is that they can pile the extra work on a so-called "exempt" employee who, hey presto, is now working extra hours for no additional compensation. The Democrats should campaign on ending the loopholes that allow this exploitation, noting correctly that they only incentivize companies to reduce headcount. If they had to pay for that extra labor after all, they'd have less reason to. And nobody likes working unpaid overtime.
posted by Gelatin at 10:04 AM on August 25, 2017 [22 favorites]


With all the grifting he's done as president, it's nice to see VeryFineNazis hit him where it hurts.

@Fahrenthold
Charity events planned at @realdonaldtrump's Mar-a-Lago, per season.
2013/2014: 45
2014/2015: 52
2015/2016: 43
2016/2017: 38
2017/2018: 6

---

And each of these is $50-200K lost.
So. Mar-a-largo is getting all the attention when it comes to cancelled events, but I have personal knowledge about a few other Trump properties taking a business hit. I'm not free to discuss it and the one group I have for sure knowledge of is trying to avoid confirming it so it doesn't end up in the news. So here you get sockpuppet because otherwise maybe someone connects the dots.

Anyway, this operation was trying to just age-out of their commitments to Trump locations. They had contracts signed before he was a candidate and when it seemed like just another big corporation that happened to have a jackass in charge. This last month was so bad they cancelled on a 2017 event with a particularly short window and are going to lose a sizable amount of money they can't get out of paying.

The pertinent thing here is that people and operations with 2017 events, even if they walk away, will still have to pay the Trump companies because of the timeline. There may be empty rooms and ballrooms but Trumpco will still collect the money. Maybe some people will decide to play Trumpball and make them sue for it but I think most will just decide to lick their wounds and walk away.

2018, on the other hand, I would bet is going to be a huge problem for Trump properties. Events more than six months out can probably be cancelled with fairly small fees. The one I know about had the 2017 event and a 2018 event. The money they are losing on 2018 is 1% of what the 2017 is costing them. The property close to the White House has reportedly done okay because of the wink wink grifting of sucking up to Trump and the money they're getting from cabinet members staying there and whatever else. That may not change, or may change if the value of sucking up is seen to change.

But all the other properties? I predict a major cratering in 2018. We may not know much about it since he doesn't do disclosure the way proper humans do. But he will surely know since we all know this supposed disconnect is fake. It will be interesting - in the oh God we're all going to die definition - to see how he unravels in response.
posted by flag it and shut up at 10:08 AM on August 25, 2017 [63 favorites]


At the very LEAST, I desire to see the Trumps penniless after all this.
posted by agregoli at 10:10 AM on August 25, 2017 [24 favorites]


At the very LEAST, I desire to see the Trumps penniless after all this.

My mother used to say decades ago that the proper punishment for securities fraud, insider trading, and other general white-collar grift and crime is to take the perpetrator's money away, in perpetuity. That their sentence is to receive, say, no more than the median US salary every year, with anything extra being confiscated and redistributed. In other words, make them middle class, permanently. Since the super-rich are doing so much to destroy the middle class, it sounds fair to me.
posted by Gelatin at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2017 [75 favorites]


I appreciate that it would be hell for them to endure (hence the relevance), but using a middle class standard of living as a "punishment" for someone who has criminally defrauded people of their life savings might be a tad...intolerable...for the rest of us in the middle class, too.
posted by darkstar at 10:21 AM on August 25, 2017 [20 favorites]


"If he returns to the club for weekends next winter, the president could often find its grand ballrooms quiet and empty." -Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club loses its ninth big charity event this week

I love the idea that he'll be driven mad by empty ballrooms and no adoring crowds. I think one of the main reasons that he goes to his resorts is to have a pre-vetted crowd treat him like a celebrity. That article is fairly old: now, I think the total is closer to 17 losses.
posted by gladly at 10:22 AM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


To be fair, those are some nice fuckin' port-a-potties.

ports-a-potty
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:23 AM on August 25, 2017 [37 favorites]


I'd add the caveat that the excess income would have to be redistributed to a random brown or black person, but I've always been opposed to torture.
posted by Rykey at 10:24 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Which, by the way, is something else the Democrats should take up -- one of the ways companies get away with downsizing / outsourcing is that they can pile the extra work on a so-called "exempt" employee who, hey presto, is now working extra hours for no additional compensation. The Democrats should campaign on ending the loopholes that allow this exploitation, noting correctly that they only incentivize companies to reduce headcount. If they had to pay for that extra labor after all, they'd have less reason to. And nobody likes working unpaid overtime.

They tried to and almost got away with it, too, until a court blocked it and now it doesn't look like the Trump Administration gives a fuck.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:28 AM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


Mod note: Not. Relitigating. Clinton.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 10:49 AM on August 25, 2017 [32 favorites]


Yeah I am sympathetic to the secret service folks who will be working these crazy hours with no additional pay. But I am really very not happy with how the coverage of this makes no mention of the fact that this is enabled by the ever-expanding definition of who can be an exempt worker who is paid on salary no matter how many hours they are asked to to work.

Secret service are pretty low on my list of people I'm sweating on that, in fact, since their lowest possible salary is still in the six figures. There are people mistreated with this mechanism who are in the low 20k a year with poor or nonexistent healthcare and few retirement prospects. Speaking more honestly about what secret service are going through and how it's a rampant employment situation would be a big plus.

I know it won't happen but it would be wonderful if all those SS folks started to sick-out when they hit hour 45 for a week.
posted by phearlez at 10:59 AM on August 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


To be fair, those are some nice fuckin' port-a-potties.

Only Imperial port-a-potties could be so pristine.

Prêt-à-port-a-potty
posted by kirkaracha at 11:03 AM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump's gotten over his home pooper thing?
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on August 25, 2017


He's fine with pissing on the road, so maybe think of them as pissoirs?
posted by notyou at 11:10 AM on August 25, 2017


Daily Beast, Lachlan Markay, Donald Trump Just Gave A Big Carve Out To Citgo, An Oil Giant Repped By His Ex-Aides
The White House on Friday announced a new round of sanctions against Venezuela that explicitly exempt the U.S. arm of the country’s state-owned oil company. That company, Citgo, donated six-figure sums to Trump’s inauguration and recently hired former Trump officials to lobby for that exemption.

The purpose of the new sanctions announced by the administration is to target arms of the Venezuelan government that have supported or facilitated President Nicolas Maduro’s ongoing crackdown on domestic political opposition. The carve out for Citgo was included in the White House statement released on Friday.
...
Citgo sought favor with the Trump administration even before the president took office. It pitched in $500,000 to fund the president’s inaugural ceremony, according to Federal Election Commission records— a break from previous inaugurations, which the company had not bothered to finance.

The exemption Citgo received from the Trump administration in this latest round of sanctions won’t just benefit PDVSA, it will also benefit a Russian company that has been fighting U.S. sanctions on a wholly separate front. Months before the Trump inauguration PDVSA mortgaged 49.9% of Citgo to state-owned Russian energy giant Rosneft as collateral for a $1.5 billion loan to the Venezuelan parent company. Rosneft paid another $1 billion this month for crude oil from the cash-strapped PDVSA, which is the Russian firm’s largest non-Russian supplier.

The U.S. sanctioned Rosneft and its chief executive, Putin ally Igor Sechin, in 2014 in retaliation for the Russian invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea. Top Russian officials have made no secret of their desire to relax those sanctions as well.
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on August 25, 2017 [31 favorites]


Are we bombing the hurricane yet
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2017 [36 favorites]


according to sources in the administration, coaxing the President through a successful dump on Air Force One was Gen. Kelly's first major accomplishment
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:20 AM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


Are we bombing the hurricane yet

We're waiting for the President to declare the Axis of Eye-vil doctrine first.
posted by Coventry at 11:23 AM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert on the hurricane: "Now is not the time to lose faith in government institutions."

Thanks, Tom.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:23 AM on August 25, 2017 [31 favorites]


bombing the hurricane

I've found the name for my Dio cover album!
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:25 AM on August 25, 2017 [17 favorites]


Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert on the hurricane: "Now is not the time to lose faith in government institutions."

Take it up with Reagan, Bossert, you jerk.
posted by Gelatin at 11:26 AM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


>> Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert on the hurricane: "Now is not the time to lose faith in government institutions."

> Thanks, Tom.


Yeah, more like, Fuck you, Tom. When would be a good time to lose faith in government institutions? When someone else's ox is getting gored?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:26 AM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump heading off to Camp David for the weekend just a few days after he got back from another vacation as a massive hurricane is poised to hit is such an obviously idiotic visual that it's clear that Kelly has zero control over anything that really matters to Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on August 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: The concept of a hurricane was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive. [fake]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:29 AM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump heading off to Camp David for the weekend just a few days after he got back from another vacation as a massive hurricane is poised to hit is such an obviously idiotic visual that it's clear that Kelly has zero control over anything that really matters to Trump.

But it's possible Kelly was able to talk him out of going to Disney World.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert clarifies: "I'm not worried about you losing faith in the Federal Government, I'm worried about you losing faith in the state and local government" [real]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:35 AM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossert clarifies: "I'm not worried about you losing faith in the Federal Government, I'm worried about you losing faith in the state and local government" [real]

What I wouldn't give for a reporter to follow up with: "So you're saying the state and local governments are capable of dealing with the hurricane without any Federal assistance at all? Not even, say, NOAA weather reports?"
posted by Gelatin at 11:39 AM on August 25, 2017 [29 favorites]


> "I'm not worried about you losing faith in the Federal Government, I'm worried about you losing faith in the state and local government" [real]

I'm having a very hard time with this [real] tag. How on earth could an American citizen say such a thing? Why is he even serving in the Federal government? Really?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:42 AM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


Way to miss the point with the port-a-potty story, USA Today and American Bridge PAC. God forbid the people tasked with protecting the President and his spawn on their globetrotting adventures get to shit in a decent bathroom. $7,100 over three weeks sounds downright cheap compared to routine business expenses in the private sector.

It's not government bureaucracy that's the problem here, it's the Trump family's globetrotting adventures that take precedence over the actual work of running the country. Enjoy those sweet, sweet outrage clicks, tho.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:43 AM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


He went to the podium with the intention of telling people to listen to evacuation notices, but the way he phrased it ("now is not the time to lose faith in government institutions") obviously put everyone in mind of the fact that Trump and the Republicans and the modern conservative movement are the primary cause of people losing faith in government institutions, both by telling people that government is terrible, and by running the government terribly.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:44 AM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Are we bombing the hurricane yet
Jack W. Reed says we should but NOAA says it won't work (and would spread fallout all over)
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 11:49 AM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


> "I'm not worried about you losing faith in the Federal Government, I'm worried about you losing faith in the state and local government" [real]

I'm having a very hard time with this [real] tag. How on earth could an American citizen say such a thing? Why is he even serving in the Federal government? Really?


To be (somewhat) fair, he was talking, at least primarily, about the government of the State of Texas, which, if you've even been slightly paying attention, its hard to have much faith in.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:52 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


He went to the podium with the intention of telling people to listen to evacuation notices, but the way he phrased it ("now is not the time to lose faith in government institutions") obviously put everyone in mind of the fact that Trump and the Republicans and the modern conservative movement are the primary cause of people losing faith in government institutions, both by telling people that government is terrible, and by running the government terribly.

I mean . . . he's not wrong.
posted by CommonSense at 11:53 AM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Are we bombing the hurricane yet
Jack W. Reed says we should ...


HOLY SMOKE you scared me for a minute there: this Jack Reed in my senator and he's Ranking Member of the Armed Services Committee (as well as serving on a few other important ones) where he presumably would have some sway over issues in this area.

Not the same guy. NOT the same guy.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


NOAA says it won't work

The teenage boy in me wants to see it anyway. I hope someone's at least done a simulation.
posted by Coventry at 12:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


The hurricane something something precious bodily fluids.
posted by darkstar at 12:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Jack W. Reed says we should but NOAA says it won't work (and would spread fallout all over)

But hey, we have the MOAB, and since it wasn't really all that useful in combat, maybe we can try it here?

Edit: oh yeah, the maths prove otherwise, there is more energy in the hurricane than a nuke, etc.
posted by mrzarquon at 12:26 PM on August 25, 2017


Scott Lemieux, LGM: NoLabelsUnity20!
Mike Allen beings us an innovative solution to the nation’s political problems:
Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) and Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) — “the Johns,” as insiders are calling them — have been making a flurry of joint appearances to talk about state-driven improvements to health care.
Somehow, I think “the John” is where non-insiders are going to want this idea to end up. [...]

Of course Kasich will be on part of the ticket! This is a perfect representation of all “grand bargains” favored by this kind of “insider.” The idea is that Democrats should make 90% of the concessions, which is really 100% of the concessions since any tax increases Democrats get will vanish as soon as Republicans take office, because this is what Republicans do. And the kind of pundits who take unity independent presidential tickets seriously, who are obsessed with deficits during election campaigns and when Democratic presidents are in office, tend to “forget” about them when Republicans are passing them.

Similarly, when a Republican is at the head of the ticket, the Republican has virtually all of the power should they win. Not a coincidence! [...]

At least somebody is allowed to state the obvious:
The pushback: Some establishment Dems are apoplectic about the idea of Hickenlooper teaming up with a Republican. One top strategist told me: “No Dem wants Kasich anywhere near our ticket. Sounds like a No Labels fantasy, but moderate Dems would hate it.”
One of the countless problems with this idea is that Kasich IS NOT A MODERATE. It’s nice that he’s not a complete sociopath on healthcare, but he’s an orthodox conservative Republican. The idea that he represents some sort of centrist compromise tell you all you need to know.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:27 PM on August 25, 2017 [23 favorites]


Here's the latest from Josh Marshall, in which he considers the ramifications of Trump trying to distance himself from his party's Congressional majorities, so they take the fall for that failure to pass legislation: Trump’s Samson Option?
Beyond this, to the extent that voters punish a President’s party somehow in contra-distinction to him, it’s hard to see how the President gets the last laugh. After all, especially in today’s partisan political context, a President’s ability to pass legislation depends entirely on support from his own party and almost certainly on having his party in the majority. Not only that, especially in Trump’s case, he relies on his party for protection from oversight and investigation. Perhaps even impeachment. In other words, having the GOP take the fall for the failures of his own presidency is an entirely illusory gambit. To the extent it ‘works’, it only does so in the sense that the congressional party is the only one available to get damaged at the ballot box. There’s not reason to believe it redounds to the President’s benefit. It just deepens the damage to his own party since the party’s most prominent voice – an incumbent President of that party – is arguing the case against it, rather than in its defense. Punishing his own party makes as much sense as cutting off his own arms. [...]

What Trump does have the ability to do is break things. Even a struggling President with little support has vast powers. Going to war with his own party, or at least with its congressional leadership, seems most likely to do great damage to both the President and his party in what amounts to a GOP civil war. But it’s important to remember that more than the leader of his party, Trump is the leader of the country. Whether or not you consider him ‘your’ president is irrelevant for these purposes. He has the powers of the presidency. If the current pattern holds – and there’s vanishingly little reason to suspect it won’t – Trump will lash out more as he becomes more embattled and more people turn on him. There doesn’t seem to be any course corrective mechanism in play here where sufficient unpopularity or chaos leads Trump to shift course. The more chaos, unpopularity and abandonment, the more he accelerates the actions and direction which led to them in the first place. It’s a self-reinforcing, self-perpetuating cycle. Since Trump’s rage is his singular trait, he’ll likely seek to destroy those around him even if he goes down too. And you’re one of those people around him.
As all of us in these threads are painfully aware, we're in an incredibly dangerous situation--unpopularity is unlikely to cause the Loser to change his behavior, but rather, to intensify his rage and propensity to harm people. As Josh points out, We the People, his detractors and supporters alike, could very well be caught in the line of fire.

I don't know what to do or how to head off the potential horrors that await. Even the constitutional mechanism for removing the chief executive is fraught, and we clearly can't count on may elected Republicans to do the right thing. I'll keep resisting peacefully and loudly to the last, though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:28 PM on August 25, 2017 [23 favorites]


Edit: oh yeah, the maths prove otherwise, there is more energy in the hurricane than a nuke, etc.

That just means we need to use more nukes!
posted by Coventry at 12:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


@markknoller: Asked if he had a message for the people of Texas, Pres Trump said "good luck to everybody," and gave a thumbs up.

So Presidential. So...Human?
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


“No Dem wants Kasich anywhere near our ticket. Sounds like a No Labels fantasy, but moderate Dems would hate it.”
Yes, let us learn our lesson from the time that we let Gore pick a DINO as Veep and never, ever, ever, repeat that mistake.
posted by xyzzy at 12:33 PM on August 25, 2017 [27 favorites]


So Presidential. So...Human?

He got through a whole sentence without insulting or blaming someone, and it could almost be interpreted as an expression of concern for other human beings... Baby steps?
posted by Coventry at 12:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Asked if he had a message for the people of Texas, Pres Trump said "good luck to everybody," and gave a thumbs up.

"Break a leg!"
"I hope you win your hurricane!"
posted by melissasaurus at 12:36 PM on August 25, 2017 [47 favorites]


> @markknoller: Asked if he had a message for the people of Texas, Pres Trump said "good luck to everybody," and gave a thumbs up.


I think someone had to point out that both Texas and Louisiana had voted for him. Nothing about Southwest Oregon being on fire thou, cause we didn't vote for him.
posted by mrzarquon at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


it seems largely implausible that I have any hope or optimism left in me at this point, but what if the Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket gives trump-tired republicans something to vote for that isn't really all that liberal (understatement) and doesn't cost true dems any votes?

I wont be actively supporting it, but im not sure how it would end up hurting Dems chances either.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Speaking of grand bargain regarding health care, what do fellow MeFites think of this one?

I think your grand bargain would get zero Republican votes. Not having single payer goes to the heart of what Republicans stand for, going back at least to Reagan. MedMal reform, besides posing all sorts of federalism issues if done by Congress, is at best a nice to have for some Republicans. There's zero upside in this deal for them.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


> but what if the Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket gives trump-tired republicans something to vote for that isn't really all that liberal (understatement) and doesn't cost true dems any votes?

I think "true dems" is doing a lot of work here. If the cost is a single Democratic vote -- which it would be under all but the most spherical cow-ish of analyses, because there would be a Democrat on the ticket -- then it's something we must kill with fire. I don't care how "true" the lost Democratic votes are. Look how close the last Presidential election was. There is no margin for error here.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


As far as I can understand, the "medical malpractice" thing is just another bandaid pseudo-policy (like Selling Insurance Across State Lines!) that at best won't address the fundamental problems in the US health care system and at worst will just siphon more money to the rich in some way or another.

Mostly it's just a way for Republicans to pretend they have actual solutions, at least for the length of time a typical health care talking heads cable news argument segment lasts.

Empty talking point.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


tivalasvegas and BentFranklin make the points I was just about to.
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: don't peak until we say so

Democrats 2018: Single-payer for Democrats. Cash-Only for Republicans.
posted by petebest at 12:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


If Kasich wants to primary Trump and pick Hickenlooper as his running mate in the general election, great!

If anyone suggests running this combo on the Democratic side, please drive them into the sea with rusty farm implements and loud shouting
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:48 PM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


A thread or two back (a week? two weeks? christ, time doesn't even make sense anymore) there was some talk about alt-right websites being shut down by their hosts / CDNs / etc. I suggested maybe we lean on the .AI TLD people to shut down gab.ai, which has become essentially an alt-right Twitter-like echo chamber and home to a bunch of people kicked off of the actual only-partially-dominated-by-racists Twitter.

Anyway -- two minor updates on that front, one hopeful and one not:
  • Google has kicked Gab out of the Google Play app store for hate speech. That makes it slightly harder for people to use the service, if only slightly (because they can still use the website and they can download the app directly from gab.ai if they're so inclined). Still it sends a positive message I think. FWIW Apple had already refused them space in the iOS App Store, though they did so under their somewhat-regressive prohibition on sites with pornographic content rather than any considered stance on hate speech.
  • I've emailed the .AI TLD administrator a few times about potentially rescinding gab.ai's use of the AI (Anguilla) TLD. He hasn't responded to my emails, but he recently posted a video on his personal G+ (I won't link but not hard to find) that purports to show someone throwing something at the car driven by James Fields just before he murdered Heather Heyer in Charlottesville. I assume it's in support of an antifa-shot-first defense of Fields. So, the .AI domain gatekeeper appears to *not* be on the side of the angels here, and I'm not expecting him to be receptive to any complaints about Gab's use of the AI TLD.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 12:52 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


If Kasich wants to primary Trump and pick Hickenlooper as his running mate in the general election, great!

I actually like this idea, because it gets to why I get so annoyed with "bipartisan" stunts like this one. Aside from LGM's salient point that the Democrats wind up making most of the concessions, it presumes that the current atmosphere of "partisanship" is both sides' fault equally.

Not so.

Democrats have been compromising and playing nice since Reagan, and Republicans have responded by moving the goalposts ever further to the right -- all the while lambasting Democrats and their constituencies with the vilest slander via talk radio, Fox, and the right wing of the Internet.

If Republicans want to run a unity ticket, they need to earn that unity by confessing their sins and making amends. Otherwise, forgiveness comes far too cheaply.
posted by Gelatin at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


Which, by the way, is something else the Democrats should take up -- one of the ways companies get away with downsizing / outsourcing is that they can pile the extra work on a so-called "exempt" employee who, hey presto, is now working extra hours for no additional compensation. The Democrats should campaign on ending the loopholes that allow this exploitation, noting correctly that they only incentivize companies to reduce headcount. If they had to pay for that extra labor after all, they'd have less reason to. And nobody likes working unpaid overtime.

THIS THIS THIS. My husband is a manager at a restaurant. His salary falls in the gap between the current "exempt" amount (ridiculously low) and the amount Obama was going to raise it to that was put on hold after the election. And restaurant management, ok, we knew it was going to be long hours. When it was 11 hour days 5 days a week, he was fine. But then they lost a manager and he ended up working 11 hour days every day for OVER A MONTH with only one day off. One day off in a month. How is that ok?

The way things are now if you're making anything but poverty wages, you can be worked as much as you will tolerate without quitting. If we really have a job shortage in this country, HOW has no one proposed limiting the amount employers can demand of their employees. How many people in this country are working 80 hours a week instead of having two employees doing that work?

I mean, if you want to know why uneducated people are exhausted and angry and willing to vote for ANYTHING if they think it will change something, this is why. This is the best paying job my husband, without a college education and with his employment experience in a dying field, can get. And in exchange he has to give literally every waking moment of his life.
posted by threeturtles at 12:54 PM on August 25, 2017 [79 favorites]


@markknoller: Asked if he had a message for the people of Texas, Pres Trump said "good luck to everybody," and gave a thumbs up.

Hurricanes. Boy, I don't know...
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:55 PM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


GOP floats condemning Charlottesville violence

The resolution would condemn both sides.
posted by jgirl at 12:56 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Recode: Facebook taps former NYT public editor to aid in “transparency” effort

Yes, it's that former NYT public editor: Liz Spayd. So don't expect any transparency from Facebook, but I'm sure she stands ready to take up the banner for whoever Cernovich wants to attack this week.
posted by zachlipton at 12:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


The resolution would condemn both sides.

Does it mention "fine people"?
posted by Artw at 1:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Recode: Facebook taps former NYT public editor to aid in “transparency” effort

Mnk! gggghhaaarrg. Aaaaiiirrrrrh! MnnaaAAAAAAAIIIIIIIGHHHHH!!!

*eats soft-serv ice cream machine, angrily*
posted by petebest at 1:05 PM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


Mnk! gggghhaaarrg. Aaaaiiirrrrrh! MnnaaAAAAAAAIIIIIIIGHHHHH!!!

You failed to cite the Calvin and Hobbes strip this was pilfered from.

posted by RolandOfEld at 1:10 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


That GOP float is deplorable, since it mentions Heather Heyer, who's mother (and presumably estate owner) has said she's disgusted with what Trump said about her departed daughter.
posted by Yowser at 1:10 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Inside Trump's Renovated Oval Office: Subtle Cream Wallpaper, Many More Flags

James Fallows in The Atlantic on those flags, Donald Trump's Telling Change to the Oval Office:
But with rare exceptions, presidents keep the battle flags out of the Oval Office. Their decisions even follow a Chickenhawk-style pattern: The more closely a president has been involved with the military, the less likely he is to make a military-flag display.

FDR and Eisenhower, who in different ways commanded the forces that beat Hitler and Tojo, did not need the battle flags. Nor did JFK, wounded Navy veteran of that war—nor the first George Bush, shot down as a naval aviator over the Pacific, nor Gerald Ford, who also served in the Pacific with the Navy, nor Jimmy Carter, who was an Annapolis cadet in the early 1940s and then became a submarine officer. Nor Ronald Reagan, who for all the complexities of his “war record” (mainly in movies) radiated a confident toughness. Of the Boomer-era presidents (Clinton, George W. Bush, technically Obama), none was on active duty, but until now all did without the battle flags.

The exceptions? Some photos of Richard Nixon in the Oval Office show him with battle flags, and a few of Lyndon Johnson as well. These exceptions underscore, rather than undermine, the larger chickenhawk principle: that the stronger a leader actually is, the less he needs the stage-prop symbols of strength....

And now we have Trump.
posted by peeedro at 1:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [42 favorites]


If Republicans want to run a unity ticket, they need to earn that unity by confessing their sins and making amends.

When Abraham Lincoln the first/greatest/only great (?) American president, ran for reelection in 1864, the Republican Party changed its name to the National Union Party and Democrat Andrew Johnson was the VP.

And apparently in his acceptance speech Lincoln became the OG "don't change horses in midstream" reelection candidate. "I am reminded...of a story of an old Dutch farmer, who remarked to a companion once that 'it was not best to swap horses when crossing streams.'"
posted by kirkaracha at 1:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


" To Trump supporters, a reliable 30% of the country, this would be a naked power grab."

I can't completely keep up with these threads but wanted to comment about this. The other day 45 said something that jumped out at me. He was addressing his base and said something to the effect of "They're trying to remove the duly elected president that YOU voted into office." It drew my attention. I absolutely think that if he's removed, by whichever means (Russia or 25th amendment or if Republicans went along with it, that he'd call for a violent resistance. No question in my mind that a chunk of his followers would commit violence. After all, it's what that demographic (I mean here the militias, the Alex jones listeners and believers, the white supremicists, etc.) HAS been doing, they've just been more sporadic and disorganized. This is a figurehead they can get behind and that's disturbing to say the least.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 1:17 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm honestly scared of what would happen in 2020 with the peaceful transition of power if Trump loses.
posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Will it go as quietly as last time with a unpopular win?
posted by Artw at 1:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


You are all more optimistic than me, what with the assuming that there will be a 2020 election.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:28 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


At the very LEAST, I desire to see the Trumps penniless after all this.

Yeah, I've taken to listening to Oysterband's Elena's Shoes on repeat, and mentally changing the name "Elena" to "Melania."

Though, quite frankly, a safe-house in the suburbs is a bit more than I'd like them to end up with.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


You are all more optimistic than me, what with the assuming that there will be a 2020 election.

Probably. I'm expecting a romping, runaway win by Democrats next year, followed by impeachment.
posted by Coventry at 1:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


That's extremely optimistic. I hope you're right, I think you're wrong.
posted by Justinian at 1:46 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


My shrink, a very learned man, was trying to tell me that if Trump goes over the debt cliff because of the wall, that Congress will seek impeachment.

I think he's been smoking something better than I've been getting, but anyway, he predicted Trump's win, so I'm throwing that out there.
posted by angrycat at 1:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


If nothing else the Trump debacle may have proven to ordinary Americans that permitting corporate secrecy over money, and even individual secrecy over money for people with sufficient money or power that it's an issue, should end.

We need laws mandating 100% open books for all companies, public, private, DBA, or whatever. You do business, we get to know how the money flows. The idea that Trump, or anyone, can simply hide where their money comes from is nuts, and that he can be a politician and keep his money secret is even crazier.

We also need laws mandating total financial disclosure for anyone involved in the government, in any way, at any level. Everyone from dogcatcher to President to presidential adviser to Senator to Senate aide to everyone on every Presidential advisory council must open their books totally and completely as a price of being involved with the government.

I'd argue that we really ought to go the way Norway did and just open all tax records, but if not that at the very least we should mandate that people with enough money to be spending it in harmful ways open theirs. Anyone making $1 million per year or more, say.

Money is power, and power exercised in secret is always harmful to the general public.
posted by sotonohito at 1:59 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


I wouldn't be totally surprised if Trump were impeached for going over the debt cliff, but I really think that he'll be strong-armed into accepting a continuing resolution or something.

The Republicans had their chance to blow up the economy and the US debt position when Obama was president and they would not totally own such a stupid and malicious action. Now it's all on them. They won't do it, because they're liars rather than fools (most of them) and know how deep their supporters would be in the shit afterward.

My bet is that Trump will be flattered and cozened into signing off on something, possibly a series of somethings - this could come up quarterly for the rest of his term. But I don't think we'll go off the cliff. And I have to say, at least the miserable job of flattery and cozening is some small punishment for the Republicans.
posted by Frowner at 1:59 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


WaPo, Trump considers backing away from Strange in heated Alabama Senate runoff
President Trump is considering backing away from Sen. Luther Strange in a heated Republican primary runoff in Alabama, according to multiple Republicans close to the White House, underscoring the deteriorating relationship between the president and the Senate GOP.

Trump’s initial endorsement of Strange aligned him with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his allies, who plan to invest millions of dollars trying to nudge Strange past controversial former judge Roy Moore. Strange, who was appointed to the seat formerly held by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, placed second behind Moore in the first round of voting earlier this month and has struggled to excite Alabama’s conservative, pro-Trump base.

Trump did not signal a desire this week to formally withdraw his endorsement of Strange, the Republicans said. But he is considering being less engaged than in the first round of voting earlier this month, when he tweeted his support and recorded a robo-call for the senator, they said — potentially turning the contest into yet another example of the frayed relationship between Trump and McConnell.

The dynamic also places the spotlight on Moore, an insurgent conservative best known for being removed from office after defying a 2003 court order to remove a monument to the 10 commandments from the courthouse where he served as the state’s chief justice. Moore was elected chief justice a second time — and was again removed, in 2016, after refusing to comply with a Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage.
I mean, you knew it was going to come down to this. Why wouldn't Trump embrace a judge who defies court orders and stab McConnell at the same time?

*extremely Vice voice*, Sarah Emerson, Whitehouse.com, Your Favorite 90s Porn Site, Is Now Protesting the Trump Presidency
One of my earliest internet memories is of telling friends to open Whitehouse.com—the .com porn site, not the official .gov government site!—in plain view on their screens. Preferably in the computer lab.

To an 11-year-old, this was the funniest goof ever, but in retrospect, I suppose it was also an instructional primer on domain name servers. How many people, looking for POTUS, accidentally saw penis?

As many as 80,000 people per day, apparently. That's according to Dan Parisi, the site's owner who recently spoke to me about Whitehouse.com's latest iteration: protesting President Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 2:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


> if Trump goes over the debt cliff because of the wall, that Congress will seek impeachment.

If Trump goes over the debt cliff, that's game over for the US economy. The damage it will inflict is never going to be fixed - the worldwide respect and deference accorded to the "full faith and credit" of the US government and its Treasury bills is a historical accident in the aftermath of WWII, and *never* coming back.

But as far as I understood it, the wall funding shutdown threat was related to government funding and its day-to-day operation, so it would merely be a "routine" shutdown of the US government (insert bitter laughter here), not the debt default apocalypse.

As an aside, even a brief shutdown of the government imposes a significant long-term cost on the US economy and eventually on every mortgage payment. Already, with the distant threat of a government shutdown, short term interest rates and currency markets are showing nervousness. (See, e.g., The Insane Cost of the Border Wall if the Government Shuts Down.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


o hai it's scoop-o-clock again, Special Counsel Friday edition: WSJ, Shane Harris, Special Counsel Examines Possible Role Flynn Played in Seeking Clinton Emails From Hackers
Special counsel Robert Mueller is examining what role, if any, former national security adviser Mike Flynn may have played in a private effort to obtain Hillary Clinton’s emails from Russian hackers, according to people familiar with the matter.

The effort to seek out hackers who were believed to have stolen Mrs. Clinton’s emails, first reported by The Wall Street Journal, was led by a longtime Republican activist, Peter W. Smith. In correspondence and conversations with his colleagues, Mr. Smith portrayed Mr. Flynn as an ally in those efforts and implied that other senior Trump campaign officials were coordinating with him, which they have denied. He also named Mr. Flynn’s consulting firm and his son in the correspondence and conversations.
...
Investigators working for Mr. Mueller have been conducting interviews and collecting information as they seek to determine whether Mr. Flynn was involved in Mr. Smith’s effort, and if his son, Michael G. Flynn, and the consulting firm Flynn Intel Group had a role, the people said. At the time Mr. Smith was trying to find the emails, Mr. Flynn was a senior adviser to the Trump campaign and had been on a short list of potential vice presidential candidates.

A lawyer for Mr. Flynn and a lawyer for his son declined to comment. Mr. Flynn’s firm has been dissolved.
...
U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence said investigators also have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary.

It isn’t known if those hackers are ones that Mr. Smith contacted.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [25 favorites]


South Carolina Man Complains About 'Martin Luther Coon Street' During Press Conference
"I don't believe [the confederate flag] is a symbol of racism. I don't believe it's a symbol of slavery," South Carolina resident Russell Walker told reporters at the courthouse.

"Hey, I go down the street I see Martin Luther Coon -- I shouldn't say that. I mean, Martin Luther King," he explained.

Digging in deeper, he asked, "Should I insist they rip the street signs down that say Martin Luther King Street or the rest of that stuff?"
posted by kirkaracha at 2:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


Happy Friday lalex! I think we knew a bunch of that, based on the Journal's previous reporting, but that it's being treated as a serious avenue of investigation by Mueller's office is a big sign, as are intelligence reports citing Russian hackers wanting to pass emails through Flynn.

Also, here's Secretary Mattis in an impromptu pep talk to troops telling them to "hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it" and "our country right now..it's got problems we don't have in the military." That seems pretty pointed.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [21 favorites]


I've definitely reached peak jaded. That WSJ story doesn't even register on my shocked meter.

re: debt ceiling. RedOrGreen is as far as i know correct and Trump's wall threats are about shutting down the government in Ted Cruzesque fashion, not about the debt ceiling. Trump's minders won't let him screw this one up, I think. I suppose he could pull another Joffrey at the Sept of Baelor like he did with the trans service member ban and just impulsively tweet something because he's having a temper tantrum but I don't expect it on this issue.
posted by Justinian at 2:17 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


These scoops used to be really big ones, with birthday cake ice cream and rainbow sprinkles. Now they're just tiny little Dippin' Dots, which, as we all know, is not the ice cream of the future. Sad.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:22 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


The biggest leaks happen when those in the know (spies, analysts, FBI agents) don't trust the system not to have been corrupted. But they seem to have confidence in Mueller which is why the leaks have significantly dried up. That they have confidence in Mueller makes me feel a bit better, really.
posted by Justinian at 2:27 PM on August 25, 2017 [37 favorites]


They won't do it, because they're liars rather than fools

I remember a lot of talk like this around this time last year. At this juncture I would normally advise everyone to panic, but since they're literally going to be wiping out their own money as well, let's play it cool and stick to the tried-and-true:

Devil's Food would seem appropriate here, but I'm a contrarian so Pineapple Upside-Down says they annihilate the economy back to the 1700's out of arrognorance in six weeks.
posted by petebest at 2:28 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, here's Secretary Mattis in an impromptu pep talk to troops telling them to "hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it" and "our country right now..it's got problems we don't have in the military." That seems pretty pointed.

Shot at trump or trump approved military coup?
posted by Artw at 2:31 PM on August 25, 2017


(Permanently) Trashing the economy via the debt ceiling would cost Trump a shit ton of money right? That is what i cling to.

(No one tell him if it would instead erase his debt by trashing the dollar or something. Oh, Christ.)
posted by schadenfrau at 2:33 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump, 7/27/16: ""Russia, if you're listening, I hope you'll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."

From the Wall Street Journal, today: "U.S. officials with knowledge of the intelligence said investigators also have examined reports from intelligence agencies that describe Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn via an intermediary."

I would love to know the dates of those discussions...
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:37 PM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]




Only The Best People [TPM]
The “Blacks for Trump” guy, who shows up right behind the President in so many campaign rallies, says he has no relationship with the Trump White House or campaign. But his description of how he breezes through to that one choice position sure makes it sound like the Trump advance team is happy to see him and makes sure he gets a choice spot. Allegra Kirkland talked to him about why he supports Trump: he believes Trump is a great emancipator who will liberate the white and black races from domination by the Cherokee Indians.
posted by guiseroom at 2:41 PM on August 25, 2017 [26 favorites]


a great emancipator who will liberate the white and black races from domination by the Cherokee Indians

Cue cute dog head on its side. Barrooo?
posted by suelac at 2:44 PM on August 25, 2017 [17 favorites]


GOP floats condemning Charlottesville violence

The resolution would condemn both sides.


These
fucking
people.

Never let anyone forget that they are no better than their awful racist president. Hang this shit around their necks forever and ever and ever.

And Gary Cohn? Can piss off and die. You do not get brownie points for claiming that you thought about
doing the right thing. "I momentarily considered acting like a decent person right before continuing to behave like a conscienceless opportunistic dick as usual; doesn't that count for something?" No, no it does not.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:46 PM on August 25, 2017 [52 favorites]


a great emancipator who will liberate the white and black races from domination by the Cherokee Indians

Finally, someone managed to make Trump seem a little smarter and saner by comparison.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:49 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


More Dippin' Dots. It may not be the ice cream of the future, but it doesn't taste half bad either.
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


New from NBC News: Mueller Seeks Grand Jury Testimony from PR Execs Who Worked With Manafort

Ha, this must be the story Ari Melber was just teasing on Twitter. Happy Friday Scoop O'Clock, guys.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


it's not scoop o'clock, I can tell because my brain isn't being flooded with manic happy anxiety as I anxiously await the replenishing of tweets

Tough crowd. I grant that it's not like a sonic boom, but weren't the subpoenas up to now only for documents? These are the first subpoenas (that we know of) for testimony, aren't they? That's gratifying.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


And Gary Cohn? Can piss off and die. You do not get brownie points for claiming that you thought about doing the right thing. "I momentarily considered acting like a decent person right before continuing to behave like a conscienceless opportunistic dick as usual; doesn't that count for something?" No, no it does not.

But but but Gary Cohn really wants us to know he thought about doing the right thing first. Politico says he even drafted multiple resignation letters, a draft op-ed and answers to reporters’ anticipated questions when he considered quitting. What a joke.

The story goes on to explain that lots of White House staff seem to have weird departures:
Reince Priebus said he resigned in a private meeting with Trump earlier this summer after Anthony Scaramucci attacked him in comments to the New Yorker, but others believe he was dismissed on Air Force One. Priebus, these people said, told people he was staying around even after he publicly said he resigned and flew to Long Island on Air Force One, a strange move if one had already resigned. He “really wanted to make it a year,” one person said.

Regardless, he wandered around the halls of the Executive Office Building for days, taking occasional meetings, looking for other gigs and taking a vacation before his employment formally concludes at the end of August. Priebus declined to comment.

No one is exactly sure what Spicer is doing these days at the White House; he quit five weeks ago but is still there while negotiating his next gig and meeting with TV networks, while staying on the payroll.

The only clear departure seemed to be Scaramucci, who was ousted by new chief of staff John Kelly after accusing Bannon of performing sexual acrobatics on himself and accusing Priebus of being paranoid in profane terms.
...
One senior administration official said Trump seems to relish the personnel dramas. He’ll ask aides what they think of each other. He will tell advisers that he is considering firing someone. He doesn’t mind trial balloons. He likes to see how much public embarrassment someone can take.

Many aides are “deeply, deeply miserable,” this official said. “But it’s not easy to just walk out of the White House,” this person added. “You think you’re helping.”
I'm also getting word now that "Patriot Prayer" has cancelled the "Free Speech Rally" in San Francisco for tomorrow and will hold a press conference instead. Unclear to me exactly what that means, other than confirming the extent to which these guys are massive trolls.
posted by zachlipton at 3:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


I think lalex's brain is developing a dangerously heightened tolerance for scoops, which is no surprise given the ongoing national scoopioid epidemic.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm also getting word now that "Patriot Prayer" has cancelled the "Free Speech Rally" in San Francisco for tomorrow

I hope everyone who left dog poop in Crissy Field will go back and pick it up, then...
posted by suelac at 3:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


To treat the nausea and headache that comes from scoopioid withdrawal, some Mefisicians prescribe a scoopolamine patch.
posted by darkstar at 3:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]




oh god is Trump already laying the groundwork to excuse himself from responsibility for any potential shortcomings in the federal response to Harvey?

Someone could also have been trying to convince him that he really needed to be taking this more seriously and they had to go hyperbolic to get him to move his ass 'Mr President THE STORM IS GETTING BIGGER. ITS WORSE ..we must do x and y '.

Then Trump *sigh* 'okay fine. At least this will make me look good.'

and he tweets.
posted by Jalliah at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Nobody knew how windy a hurricane could be!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2017 [31 favorites]


[Saying offensive things just to piss people off is] a pretty adolescent thrill that I honestly think most mature people have grown out of.
I'd argue that you think that because you perceive, as I do, that the giving of gratuitous offence is an act capable of inflicting genuine and grievous harm completely out of proportion to the degree of pleasure gained from it.
Not really. Even if I don't care about the person being teased, I think chain-yanking, trolling, etc. is pretty adolescent and kind of ridiculous as a pursuit for anyone over 25. And I say that as a standup comedian pretty experienced at various forms of humor based on baiting crowds for reaction.

It's not to say that ginning up a reaction isn't fun -- an early closer of mine was my "pro-death" rant -- but you're always saying something when you do that. (My point in that case was mocking pro-life piety and the delusion that US foreign policy was purely based on "doing good.")

Anyone who cares about anything can be trolled, and it's not some genius clever move to figure out how to make them mad. It's just cheap amoral manipulation at best, and often in the service of much darker impulses (as with right-wingers tacitly supporting racism and misogyny as "free speech.") And it's always a passive agressive way to cause pain.
posted by msalt at 3:49 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


CNN's Jim Sciutto is reporting that North Korea has fired an unidentified projectile into the seas east of the Korean Peninsula. (Twitter link, no more info)
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:49 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


This transgender ban is pathetic. The same fight has already been won by black men, women, and gays, and transgender people will win this one, too.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [31 favorites]


What better time for NK to poke Donald than during a natural disaster.*



*Or, as most people call it: "The Trump Administration".
posted by darkstar at 3:57 PM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


It looks like the trans ban isn't actually directing a trans ban. The only thing that's directed, rather than "go back to the way you were doing it, where you were using discretion", is that DoD medical facilities will now not be performing transition-related medical care. Still bad, but they won't boot anyone out over this, at least as I read it.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on August 25, 2017


The Occasional Dana: In which Julian Assange threatened Dana Rohrabacher challenger Democrat Harley Rouda with a libel suit.
In a statement Rouda said, “The fact that Julian Assange is so alarmed shows that we’re on to something. Dana Rohrabacher’s allies – Julian Assange and Donald Trump – appear to have the same pattern of making frivolous threats that they don’t follow through with. I want to make this very clear to Julian Assange: Bring it on, Julian. I’m looking forward to deposing you here in the United States. When are you coming?”
Assange's tweet.
posted by notyou at 3:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [25 favorites]


To be clear, he's still a fucker and his fuckery is undiminished, but this doesn't tie the hands of the SecDef as much as was previously thought it would.
posted by corb at 3:59 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Denying employees healthcare is a pretty big deal.
posted by Artw at 4:00 PM on August 25, 2017 [33 favorites]


Hey so what's the typical doom timeline after a major dark harbinger like e.g. the sun blotted out & day becoming night across all the land. Asking for a civilization
posted by theodolite at 4:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


HuffPo All The Swastikas And Broken Glass Since Charlottesville
The ADL provided a lengthy list to HuffPost of anti-Semitic incidents over the past two weeks. A spokesman for the group says the number of incidents is “higher than usual” when compared with other recent two-week periods.
There's a list if you want to view it. It's too depressing to copy paste.

In much better news, I enjoyed watching Senator Klobuchar on The Daily Show. I was so impressed, I made my husband watch the interview. I've heard people here talk about her but never really seen much of her myself. She comes across as genuine, kind, and sensible. A really wonderful antidote to Trumpism.

Also, on yesterday'ss episode of Pod Save America the guys talked to a focus group manager, wrangler, what have you. They asked what Democrats should be discussing in re Trump. He said one thing is that independents and even Republicans dislike how America has gone down in the estimation of the world. We may not want to be a Globalist country but we do want the other countries looking up to us and that is impossible with Trump as President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:02 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm a bit fuzzy on how "I don't like war" could ever equate to "Trump is the better choice" in anyone's worldview who wasn't 100% in the conservative tank already.

All I can do is point out what they stated at the time.

Both of 'em cited old Trump tweets and articles when Dear Leader then said things that were supposed to be anti-war. They also cited (what may have been an Assange release) of some video of Hillary where she spoke of Quadiffi's death 'we came, we say he died' and events there like the destruction of the water pipelines, the drop in infant life expectancy, at one point the removal of 30K payments to citizens and other things I don't remember. Bengazi was not as big of deal unlike other places - the water pipeline and change in women's treatment matter more to 'em.

Both were ALL over the 'drain the swamp' position - and yea, Trump hit a rich vein on that claim. Both expressed disappointment over the swamp still wetness - but no one's talking about that anymore.

The one claims to have voted for Bill Clinton, Obama the 1st time (cited change), and Hillary for Congress as he could. Eventually I'll be able to listen to the podcasts of the claimed Clinton/Obama voter and see if he's changed is POV from 2016. The other, as stated, feels his job got tanked by clinton forces a generation ago. This other had nothing kind to say about Bush/Cheney. The other one's web page was 'a word Mr. Trump' and 'no, don't' with the tomahawks and Afghanistan and hasn't been actively pro-Trump once it was obvious the swamp wasn't getting drained.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Cat 4 is where things get real.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:07 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


SLoG, I'm biased because Judiciary Committee is my favorite, but if you get a chance, watch their hearings on CSPAN. She's fantastic.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:10 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


This game I'm playing where my phone buzzes and I guess whether it's about banning trans people, a missile launch, or a massive hurricane, it's a really unfun game.

On the bright side, at least my favorite local chicken wing place is anti-Nazi (also not a phrase I ever thought I'd be saying).
posted by zachlipton at 4:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [23 favorites]


kirkaracha: "When Abraham Lincoln the first/greatest/only great (?) American president, ran for reelection in 1864, the Republican Party changed its name to the National Union Party and Democrat Andrew Johnson was the VP."

Which I think was a major error by Lincoln, although of course he didn't anticipate being assassinated.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:13 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


In much better news, I enjoyed watching Senator Klobuchar on The Daily Show. I was so impressed, I made my husband watch the interview. I've heard people here talk about her but never really seen much of her myself. She comes across as genuine, kind, and sensible. A really wonderful antidote to Trumpism.

She's ours -- your can't have her. If you want to elect a Minnesota senator to the presidency take the junior senator, he's not nearly as funny.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Washington Post has a followup on the fallout from Gary Cohn's statement critical of Trump's Charlottesville response. Of course there's an anonymous source saying that Trump was "furious", but OMFG these people:
On Wednesday evening, Cohn complained loudly about Trump while dining with friends at a Long Island restaurant called the Frisky Oyster.

Cohn explained to his dinner table – in a loud voice overheard by others – how he had to be careful not to give Trump too much lead time about some new ideas because the president could disclose the information prematurely and upend the planning process, according to a person familiar with the dinner.
The article also includes a bit of speculation on who Trump might appoint to head the Federal Reserve now that Cohn has broken the omertà code and Janet Yellen just made a statement in strong support of the financial regulations that came about after our most recent global financial crisis.
posted by peeedro at 4:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


What exactly is Assange up to? Is he just following orders obediently from Moscow (either because of the massive hard-on he gets from being on the side of the big bad boys, or because he knows that things will end badly for him if he ceases being useful to his handlers), or is he freestyling on some psychotic tangent? Has he gone full Aleister Crowley and started believing that he is a tremendously wicked fellow and that it would not befit him to act as anything less than one?
posted by acb at 4:22 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Washington Post's Anna Fields reporting from Tokyo about the NK missile launch: North Korea is reported to have launched another missile, heightening tensions
Japanese authorities had determined it was a ballistic missile launched from a site in Gangwon province on North Korea’s east coast, Japan’s NHK broadcaster and Kyodo News reported.

Some reports suggest that there may have been more than one missile launched.

U.S. Pacific Command in Hawaii, which monitors North Korean missiles, did not immediately comment on the launch.
Category 4 Hurricane about to slam into TX, DPRNK launching what appears to be a ballistic missile...seems like an opportunity for a hostile adversary to create more chaos in the United States, if they have the inkling...Not good.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:25 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL senate special:
-- Strange campaign released a poll showing him down 45-41 to Moore. When the poll you are spinning with shows you trailing....

-- As mentioned upstream, Trump reportedly thinking about backing off his support for Strange. Memo to GOP candidates: you cannot trust this man.
** 2018 Senate -- Looks like super-racist Rep. Lou Barletta is going to jump in to run against Bob Casey in PA. There are some really toxic people in this state's politics, but Barletta is up there.

** 2020 prez:
-- We covered the Kasich-Hickenlooper stuff earlier. I know everything is crazy now, but independent runs get floated every cycle and basically never happen.

-- People seem to be floating Al Franken trial balloons. [The Hill] I like Al, but I'd rather have Amy Klobuchar.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:25 PM on August 25, 2017 [30 favorites]


Brian Schaffner, a political scientist at UMass, released a study with some interesting (and perhaps unsurprising?) analyses of voting patterns and voter attitudes, especially with respect to Sanders voters who voted Trump vs. Clinton.

He gave a thoughtful interview to Vox and elaborated on the data on his Twitter account. Links to CCES data & guide to study (scroll down) and code used for the analysis. Here is a manuscript for an analysis of the effects of racism and sexism, though this focuses on the overall effects of racism and sexism on voting patterns and likelihood of Obama-Trump or Romney-Clinton switching. That is, not Sanders vs. Clinton primary voters.

Twitter appears to be blowing up over who cost who the election, but I am going to skip that because it is more interesting to talk about who is switching from Sanders to Trump, and the degree to which racism/sexism/economic attitudes drove voter choices. Some points here which I've pulled from the interview, Schaffner's tweets, and the manuscript I linked.
  • Only 17-18% of Sanders-Trump voters identified as liberal, verses ~45% as moderates, and ~35% as conservative.
  • For all voters, moving from least to most sexist meant a 20-point swing towards Trump; moving from least to most racist represented a 60-point swing towards Trump. Note: this is after controlling for confounding variables.
  • A voter was slightly more likely to switch from Obama->Trump if they were very sexist or saw a significant decrease in income. But the Obama->Trump switch was strongly associated with racism, and in an explicitly linear fashion.
  • 75% of Sanders voters voted Clinton (S/C). Less than 5% did not vote (S/DNV), ~12% voted Trump (S/T), ~8% voted for another candidate (S/OC).
  • Percent identifying as Dem: S/C > S/DNV > S/OC > S/T (~93%, ~85%, ~55%, ~45%)
  • Average age of S/T voters: 52 (oldest of all categories). Average age of S/DNV voters: 35.
  • S/T voters were most likely to be white; S/C were least likely.
  • Approval of Obama: S/C > S/DNV > S/OC > S/T (~95%, ~80%, ~55%, ~22%)
  • Percent who disagreed with the statement "White people have advantages": S/T > S/OC > S/DNV > S/C (~45%, ~18%, ~13%, ~5%). That is, the more likely you were to believe in white privilege, the more likely you were to ultimately vote for Clinton.
  • Only 25% of S/T voters ultimately voted for a Democratic congressperson.
  • The S/T voter was equally likely to be unregistered with a party versus being a registered Democrat.
As Schaffner himself says, there's more work to be done in terms of comparing primary and general election voting choices.

I think this reflects some of the things we'd already been seeing in the NUMEROUS studies about 2016 voters churned out for over a year now. People who didn't vote Clinton in the general were more likely to be white, older, and racist--whether they voted Trump, for another candidate, or didn't vote. People who voted for Trump in the general were most likely to be white, older, and/or racist, irrespective of primary vote. And when calculated independently, economic status wasn't so much predictive as racism and sexism.

The breakdown of attitudes among Sanders voters and voters in general is valuable because it provides a window into the person who would be attracted to Sanders but not Clinton. And to me, it seems like what this is saying is that there's a chunk of voters (almost certainly mostly white voters) who like their economic populism, but are either less into a message that's aggressive about civil rights--or actively oppose it. This is not just Sanders--from the various articles I linked, in 2016 it seems anywhere from 15-25% of Clinton primary voters ultimately voted McCain. What were their attitudes towards race? I actually am having trouble finding a study that does the crosstabs on Clinton-McCain voters and racial attitudes--most emphasize correlation between Clinton-McCain and opinion about the war on Iraq--but my assumption is that their racial attitudes are not good.

It seems like it really does get at the heart of the struggle over ideology and tactics going on within the Democratic Party. What balance of civil rights versus straight economic equality will attract the most voters without, well, turning off the racist voters? Do we want the latter type of voter? Where do we stand with candidates (and not just for POTUS) who are into economic equality--but not so much programs that create racial/gender/LGBTQ+ equity? Would we be better off focusing on addressing voter suppression and mobilization (not that there's any attention or analyses being put out on the topic . . . )?

I am interested in seeing what other people do with the Schaffner data. I hope someone can compare the data with past elections: what's the expected rate of flipping, what percentage of Democratic white voters just want whomever they perceive as most racist, etc.

FINALLY:
I think these last two studies must be considered before composing any comments about the topic.
posted by Anonymous at 4:28 PM on August 25, 2017


I know we're all sick to death of reporters checking in with Trump supporters, but this one just made my jaw drop:
Richard Osborne, 46, plans to travel to Trump’s event from Galena, Mo., a town 40 miles southwest of Springfield. Osborne, who is disabled, said that he used to be a Democrat but has embraced Trump despite concerns that Republican health care plans could adversely affect him.

“I’m handicapped and I should be a Democrat because I’m handicapped. But I want to ‘Make America Great Again.’ And I’m willing to be a martyr to make America great again. If my insurance gets messed up, I’m fine with that,” Osborne said in a phone call.

“I do want to see America great again because I’m scared for my children. The way the world looks, the way America looks. I think we’re going to be overpopulated,” he continued. “I remember when I was a kid you didn’t have to lock your front door. You didn’t have to be scared... I remember when America was great and I want to get back to those times.”
I've never just heard someone just straight up say they'll personally be a martyr for racism even when their health is on the line.
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on August 25, 2017 [61 favorites]


Galena, MO has a population of 422 and is in BFE. He's only locking his front door because of local tweakers and junkies.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


overpopulated

So, gonna put that one down as "racist" then.
posted by Artw at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2017 [36 favorites]


The presidential memorandum also banned the Department of Defense from using its resources to provide medical treatment regimens for transgender individuals currently serving in the military

Is there any clarity on whether this includes hormone treatments? Or is it just focused on surgeries?

Hormone replacement therapy is an incredibly meaningful part of life for a trans person - not just a part of transitioning, but a part of daily life. It's more transformative in some ways than surgery. But it's also a relatively normal thing, it doesn't squick people the way surgery does ... and those same medications are also prescribed to cis people for all sorts of different reasons. So in terms of record-keeping it could be very hard to single out trans people taking those hormones for their transness.

... or does this order perhaps ban all healthcare given to transgender individuals from the DOD. oh god.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:41 PM on August 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


Healthcare is part of compensation. They've basically decided to pay one class of people less. That would seem actionable.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [28 favorites]


So I just made my calls to my reps pushing them to fight this transgender ban garbage. I know they're already against it, but I called anyway. (WA folks: CALL CANTWELL. I got right through, so she's not getting enough calls.)

The thing that really got me was I kept choking up when I added that I'm a veteran. That shouldn't be such a factor. Too much weight is put on that word, but I figured I should use whatever privilege I have to fight something like this...and it got me choked up. My eyes are still all blurry.

I said, "I'm a veteran. We should be better than this." And it was hard to say, because what the fuck. Why should that even need to be said? This asshole president never served, dodged the draft repeatedly--and I wouldn't care about that at all if he wasn't here saying some people aren't good enough to VOLUNTEER for the job based on their gender. A job he wouldn't take.

It is fucking inexcusable that we're even having these conversations.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [69 favorites]


... or does this order perhaps ban all healthcare given to transgender individuals from the DOD. oh god.

I'm acting on the (perhaps incorrect) assumption that DoD is going to play ball at the bare minimum standard needed to not be insubordinate to orders - so all the things where it says "The Secretaries can choose.." I think are unlikely to be implemented.

They don't, afaik, maintain a "Big List Of Trans Servicemembers", so even if they wanted to, which I don't think they do, it would be impossible for them to ban healthcare given to trans individuals. Same with HRT - like, hormones are frequently given out for fertility issues, PCOS issues, etc. etc., so I don't think they will be messing with those. I think it's mostly going to be a hold on bottom surgery for a while - I don't think they can even clearly differentiate out top-surgery-for-trans and top-surgery-for-cancer-and-other-reasons.

Now mind you, this is all assuming that the military services will not play ball, as it seems from their statements that they won't - if they actually throw themselves into it, it can do a /lot/ of damage. But I just don't think Trump is competent enough to check at the granular level, and he's the only one driving it.
posted by corb at 4:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's worth noting that when the original transgender ban garbage tweet went out, the Commandant of the Coast Guard reached out to the transgender personnel he knew of to say he would not break faith. I can't remember the exact words, but he also basically said he was putting them in touch with legal support or was getting the Coast Guard's legal resources ready to stand up on the issue.

There are people at the very top who aren't of a mind to simply mumble "Yes, sir" and follow orders on this bullshit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [26 favorites]


Charles M. Blow of the New York times examines The Other Inconvenient Truth in a scathing editorial regarding racism in the institutional Republican party.
And yet, it seems too simplistic, too convenient, to castigate only Trump for elevating these vile racists. To do so would be historical fallacy. Yes, Trump’s comments give them a boost, grant them permission, provide them validation, but it is also the Republican Party through which Trump burst that has been courting, coddling and accommodating these people for decades. Trump is an articulation of the racists in Charlottesville and they are an articulation of him, and both are a logical extension of a party that has too often refused to rebuke them. [...]

But in the modern age one party has operated with the ethos of racial inclusion and with an eye on celebrating varied forms of diversity, and the other has at times appealed directly to the racially intolerant by providing quiet sufferance.

It is possible to trace this devil’s dance back to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the emergence of Richard Nixon. After the passage of the act, the Republican Party, the party of Lincoln to which black people felt considerable fealty, turned on those people and stabbed them in the back.

In 1994 John Ehrlichman, Nixon’s domestic-policy adviser and a Watergate co-conspirator, confessed this to the author Dan Baum:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” [...]

If you advance policies like a return to more aggressive drug policies and voter suppression — things that you know without question will have a disproportionate and negative impact on people of color, what does that say about you?

It says that you want the policies without the poison, but they can’t be made separate: The policies are the poison.

And yes, this is all an outgrowth of white supremacy, a concept that many try to apply only to vocal, violent racists but that is in fact more broadly applicable and pervasive.
It's a long article but well worth the read. Cruelty and hate is baked into the policies espoused by the Republican party--whether the targeting of Black people with harsh drug laws and voter disenfranchisement, immigrants and refugees with deportation, or transgender people with the denial of healthcare and threat of ignoring violent hate crimes, the institutional Republican party is a virulent cancer on this country. While the Democratic party can do much better on issues of equality, nevertheless a new party must take the place of this hateful organization.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [69 favorites]


Gillibrand to introduce bill to overturn military trans ban.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [28 favorites]


“I do want to see America great again because I’m scared for my children. The way the world looks, the way America looks. I think we’re going to be overpopulated,” he continued. “I remember when I was a kid you didn’t have to lock your front door. You didn’t have to be scared... I remember when America was great and I want to get back to those times.”

I am a couple of years older than the above-quoted Mr. Osborne. This is not my recollection of the America we grew up in.
posted by tiger tiger at 5:04 PM on August 25, 2017 [11 favorites]


FFS, I really thought he might not do the Arpaio thing.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:05 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's 'keep the bigoted base happy' day in the face of being a loser on everything else.

Fuck him and them.
posted by chris24 at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


State Sen. Scott Weiner on the "Patroit Prayer" attempting to move their rally:
Today the right-wing extremist group Patriot Prayer - with a history of violent rallies - showed its true colors by canceling, at the last minute, its permitted rally at Crissy Field and scheduling an illegal unpermitted rally at Alamo Square. They did this after the National Park Service correctly placed significant security conditions on the permit, including not carrying anything that could be used as a weapon. Patriot Prayer is not interested in simply exercising free speech. Rather, Patriot Prayer wants to create a volatile, chaotic, violent tinderbox. This rally in Alamo Square is illegal and in the heart of a residential neighborhood, and I am deeply concerned it will lead to violence, particularly given how close Alamo Square is to the counter-protest at Civic Center. As a matter of public safety, it cannot be allowed to happen.
For local geographic context, Crissy Field is part of a big federal park on the waterfront. They put up fences there so they can control access and confiscate prohibited items, and they closed off areas surrounding the field. Alamo Square is basically 2x2 small city blocks surrounded by people's homes (including the Painted Ladies and the Full House house, yes). It's going to be a total mess. And there's not even a gazebo there.
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [41 favorites]


Gorka has resigned.
posted by Jalliah at 5:08 PM on August 25, 2017 [39 favorites]


In better news, I guess, Sebastian Gorka resigns? lol from his resignation letter:
“Regrettably, outside of yourself, the individuals who most embodied and represented the policies that will ‘Make America Great Again,’ have been internally countered, systematically removed, or undermined in recent months. This was made patently obvious as I read the text of your speech on Afghanistan this week.

“The fact that those who drafted and approved the speech removed any mention of Radical Islam or radical Islamic terrorism proves that a crucial element of your presidential campaign has been lost."
posted by yasaman at 5:09 PM on August 25, 2017 [40 favorites]


So what is Arpaio's pardon supposed to be distracting us from? Or is it just a buried wolf whistle?
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:10 PM on August 25, 2017


So Kelly gets rid of Gorka, and Trump is like "Fuck you, I'm going to do what I want" and pardons Arpaio
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:10 PM on August 25, 2017 [17 favorites]


ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, LALEX?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:10 PM on August 25, 2017 [22 favorites]


Fucking hell. Is all the awful Nazi shit a special lollipop he I should getting to make up for losing his fascist teddybear?
posted by Artw at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well at least he's a fucker to everyone. Who writes a resignation letter like that?
posted by phearlez at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


It never fucking fails.

As soon as he does one batshit stupid inexcusable thing, he immediately deflects from it by doing ANOTHER batshit stupid inexcusable thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


All this and I'm drinking Strohs someone got me as a present. WTF Friday night?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


We need to make a shitload of noise about the Arpaio pardon, to practice for any other bullshit pardoning that comes down from this "president". That hateful asshole needs to know that we do not approve and will not stand for it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


lol from his resignation letter

Oh, so he's an ANGRY Nazi.
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm glad it's a tequila night.
posted by chris24 at 5:13 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


So what is Arpaio's pardon supposed to be distracting us from? Or is it just a buried wolf whistle?

The pardon is happening because we are supposed to be distracted by the Hurricane. They're flinging out poo all at once so no one thing gets focused on.
posted by Jalliah at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yeah, with the Arpaio thing, it's hard not to see it as a moral hazard. If you break the law in a way that the Trumpists like - if you're targeting the right sorts of people - you get pardoned.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2017 [25 favorites]


Gee, who could have predicted Gorka's letter would be passive-aggressive, arrogant, and self-righteous? [giggle]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


I just got diagnosed with another kidney stone today. MeFi doctors, how much alcohol can I consume?
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


All of it, Faint of Butt
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


That suggests they are preparing for the hurricane to be a cluster fuck, which is likely true but an unusual level of self awareness.
posted by Artw at 5:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


FFS, I really thought he might not do the Arpaio thing.

On Tuesday, he as much as said he would, and when has he ever failed to be at least as awful as advertised?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


Let me see if I have this right today, ignoring stuff too small to make the cut like Gary Cohn not actually resigning and Citgo getting exempted from sanctions after donating.
  • A massive hurricane is headed for Texas as the President just left on vacation again.
  • The President's campaign chairman and former National Security Advisor are both under investigation by a Special Counsel, with subpoenas issued by a grand jury, and they're looking into reports that Russia tried to use the latter as a middleman.
  • North Korea launched three missiles. The President banned transgender people from the military to spite his predecessor and because he got tired of people telling him he shouldn't.
  • The President who ran on "law and order" pardoned a sheriff who was convicted for repeatedly ignoring court orders to not be racist, in violation of DOJ guidelines that would not allow for such a pardon at this time.
  • A massive Islamophobe just resigned from the government, apparently because he doesn't think the President is being quite as Islamophobic as he was during the campaign.
  • And Nazis are preparing to run wild over my city tomorrow.
WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [114 favorites]


@samstein: (Daily Beast, MSNBC)
Trump pardoning Arpaio at 8pm on a Friday as a massive hurricane hits the nation tells you everything about how thrilled the WH is with this

---

@MichaelSkolnik:
Eleven personal trips this year by Trump to Mar-A-Lago: $29 million

Medical services for transgender people in the military: $8.4 million
posted by chris24 at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [102 favorites]


Trump has pardoned Joe Arpaio.

Garbage humans, all of them.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:19 PM on August 25, 2017 [23 favorites]


Well, I thought it might be one of his "two weeks, tops" things.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:19 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


That suggests they are preparing for the hurricane to be a cluster fuck, which is likely true but an unusual level of self awareness.

Too bad that didn't stop Trump from doing his "[wave] Good luck Texas, I'm off on my usual weekend jaunt, tra la!" exit on video today, which will probably be replayed 100,000 times in coming days.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can anyone explain what a pardon for being in contempt of court even means? Can they find him in contempt of court again? Or is he just immune from the rule of law now?
posted by panic at 5:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


So far, under Harvey, six major stories have been buried?
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


FFS, I really thought he might not do the Arpaio thing.

He was always going to. He and Shurf Joe are two racist birther peas in a racist birther pod.

On the plus side, it's almost entirely symbolic - The Shurf wasn't likely to serve any time, and at 85 he's all but done anyway.

That said, yes, the symbolism sucks. Donald Trump is a bad president.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Cynical, but probably accurate take from WaPo's Weigel:

Congrats to @AZDemParty, which can use the Arpaio pardon to turn out Latinos from here to eternity.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2017 [66 favorites]


Yeah, Texans aren't likely to forget that "Good Luck" bit, regardless of their political leanings.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yep, the AZ GOP just took a big step to CA GOP's fate.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Good time to revisit Noah Feldman on Arpaio Pardon Would Show Contempt for Constitution: "And there would be only one remedy for Trump's disrespect: impeachment."
An Arpaio pardon would express presidential contempt for the Constitution. Arpaio didn’t just violate a law passed by Congress. His actions defied the Constitution itself, the bedrock of the entire system of government. For Trump to say that this violation is excusable would threaten the very structure on which is right to pardon is based.

Fundamentally, pardoning Arpaio would also undermine the rule of law itself.

The only way the legal system can operate is if law enforcement officials do what the courts tell them. Judges don’t carry guns or enforce their own orders. That’s the job of law enforcement.

In the end, the only legally binding check on law enforcement is the authority of the judiciary to say what the law is -- and be listened to by the cops on the streets.

When a sheriff ignores the courts, he becomes a law unto himself. The courts’ only available recourse is to sanction the sheriff. If the president blocks the courts from making the sheriff follow the law, then the president is breaking the basic structure of the legal order.
This fits straight in with Trump's attacks on judges and him telling police to assault suspects. It is a message that police are above the law. It is an attack on the rule of law itself.
posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on August 25, 2017 [104 favorites]


Congrats to @AZDemParty, which can use the Arpaio pardon to turn out Latinos from here to eternity.

I hope so, but I'll believe it when it happens. Latinx turnout in the southwest has never been anything approaching good, or even mediocre. Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the camels back but... I'm not optimistic. Just as likely it causes people to become even more disaffected.
posted by Justinian at 5:25 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


@Chris24, if you think the GOP will pay a political price for Trump pardoning Arpaiio in Arizona of all places then you have not been paying attention.
posted by RedShrek at 5:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


So Kelly gets rid of Gorka, and Trump is like "Fuck you, I'm going to do what I want" and pardons Arpaio

That's my read on it, too, which bodes pretty fucking badly for what happens if we actually start bringing the rule of law back in any meaningful way. He can do a lot of fucking damage lashing out.
posted by corb at 5:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


@kkondik: (UVA center for Politics)
Short story long - if R presidential candidates start losing Maricopa County in Arizona, it's game over for them in that state, basically
posted by chris24 at 5:27 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


"if" and there's no good reason to think that will happen.
posted by RedShrek at 5:28 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is just the warm up pardon.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [16 favorites]


Also, has this ever been done before? A pardon before someone had even served one day of their sentence?
posted by corb at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fundamentally, pardoning Arpaio would also undermine the rule of law itself.

This is basically the issue in a nutshell. There's not any lip service paid to the concept. It's just a straight middle finger to the judiciary.
posted by Talez at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [39 favorites]


That's why there are no bullets to be had.
I'm pretty sure this is you being sarcastic,


No, that was (is?) totally a talking point. The last time I saw it the response was "No demand for mined Lead. The nation has been getting all the lead for bullets it needs via recycled from batteries." Sometimes a comment about environmental regs and how it can be done outside the nation at lower cost.

The no-lead talkers usually then start complaining how new copper or whatever bullets for hunting are somehow throwing off their finely honed skills. VS the people who are saying "I'll make the switch to cut down on Lead in the environment." Some bitching from the "classic" muzzle-loaders but in general that class of people seem more accepting of Copper as it is not really making a big difference in putting .45 or .50 cal downrange with their in-line, scoped and rifled experience in the snow while wearing gor-tex. I can't think of any people who fish claiming the no-lead effects their sinkers and THAT is Obama's fault. But I'm sure there is come fishing people someplace on the Internet making exactly that claim.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Also, has this ever been done before? A pardon before someone had even served one day of their sentence?

Sure. Nixon was pardoned, for example.
posted by Justinian at 5:31 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, has this ever been done before? A pardon before someone had even served one day of their sentence?

When Jerry Ford fucking pardoned Richard Nixon before he could be tried for his crimes, under the pretense of moving forward?

(Also, good to see you back corb :).)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:32 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


> The President who ran on "law and order" pardoned a sheriff who was convicted for repeatedly ignoring court orders to not be racist

The law in "law and order" isn't the same law as in "rule of law". "Law and order" has meant racist policing to keep the disenfranchised down and away from the the "elite" (using Trump's Phoenix meaning here) since at least 1968.

In other words, Arpio was doing exactly what Trump called for and his base supported. Trump's mentions of gun violence in Chicago wasn't sympathy for the victims, it was a (dog whistled?) call for suspending the 4th, 5th, 6th and 14th amendments and instituting NYC style stop-and-frisk on steroids. If he appoints enough federal judges and Sessions stops DOJ investigations and consent decrees of racist police depts., he'll be able to do it too.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 5:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [17 favorites]


I can not express how livid I am at Trump over Arpaio's pardon. My only solace is that I am going to outlive them both. I will never stop doing what little I can to ensure that history is not kind to either of them and any they embolden.
posted by Catblack at 5:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [21 favorites]


So, uh, looks like Trump is ending DACA. I have no words.
posted by orangutan at 5:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


This is all to distract from something... I just can't decide if it's the release of Netflix's "Death Note" or Amazon Prime's "The Tick". Well, you know what I say to that... SPOOON!!!
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:45 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Congrats to @AZDemParty, which can use the Arpaio pardon to turn out Latinos from here to eternity.

The GOP strategy is to make it impossible for nonwhite people to vote.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:46 PM on August 25, 2017 [39 favorites]


Also, has this ever been done before? A pardon before someone had even served one day of their sentence?

Nixon.

Can anyone explain what a pardon for being in contempt of court even means?

He got a pardon because he was convicted of the crime of contempt of court for not complying with judicial orders, and his sentence would have been a punishment for that crime. That's distinct from normal, civil contempt of court, where the judge orders the bailiff/marshal/whatever to throw your ass in jail until such time as you agree to do what the court ordered you to. That's coercion, not punishment, and IIRC not subject to pardon.

Can they find him in contempt of court again? Or is he just immune from the rule of law now?

They could if he were still the sheriff of Maricopa County and again refused to comply with court orders. But he ain't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


So, uh, looks like Trump is ending DACA. I have no words.

This, to be clear, is still in the "rumored that he's thinking about it" stage. Which, yes, is very bad, but these "he's considering it" stories are not the same as "he's done it" stories, as Chris Geidner discusses.
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


So far, under Harvey, six major stories have been buried?

On MSNBC they're not. My parents are watching Chris Hayes. Hurricane is in the corner and there's a big panel discussing the pardon. Also mentioned Gorka and the subpoenas.
posted by Jalliah at 5:50 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fucking hell, not too busy this weekend is he?
posted by Artw at 5:50 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


clearly everything that happened today is a clever ruse to distract us from every other thing that happened today

and it must be working because my brain is just going around in circles making bugs bunny freak out noises
posted by murphy slaw at 5:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


Gorka and the subpoenas

Shittiest. Band. Ever.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:53 PM on August 25, 2017 [53 favorites]


Looks like this is another month where ResistBot uses up most of my 300 text mewssages.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:54 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


We need laws mandating 100% open books for all companies, public, private, DBA, or whatever. You do business, we get to know how the money flows. The idea that Trump, or anyone, can simply hide where their money comes from is nuts, and that he can be a politician and keep his money secret is even crazier.

We also need laws mandating total financial disclosure for anyone involved in the government, in any way, at any level. Everyone from dogcatcher to President to presidential adviser to Senator to Senate aide to everyone on every Presidential advisory council must open their books totally and completely as a price of being involved with the government.


Its 8 months into this and here's the 1st attempt at defining SOMETHING for new law to benefit the Republic based on what's happening. Good.

Can we have a "Now Apply these laws to the Congressperson's Staff, the direct family of the staff and the family and 1st cousins of the Congresspeople"? Because I'd love to see how twitchy everyone would get over the DMCA and copyright enforcement when it is them and their family. And oh, how about smoking pot or use of prescription drugs if you are not the holder of the prescription? Pee in the cup. Fail and you get sent through the felony charging system per the laws you wrote.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:54 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


@ByRosenberg:
Time in office until issuing first pardon
Clinton: 652 days
W. Bush: 699 days
Obama: 682 days
Trump: 217 days, during a hurricane

@PreetBharara:
This pardon is contrary to DOJ guidelines, unsurprisingly. Pure politics. Wonder what the pardon attorney's official recommendation was.

@jimsciutto:
POTUS pardons Arpaio without DOJ recommendation & imposes transgender ban before completion of Pentagon study - both during epic storm
posted by chris24 at 5:59 PM on August 25, 2017 [61 favorites]


Marc Rich (Nixon is a Gimmy, unless you are too young to remember Nixon)

Didn't Casper Weinberger get one just before he was gonna have to testify? Because some people were looking forward to the testimony like they were looking forward to the discussions about the unaccounted Pentagon money back in early September of 2001.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:00 PM on August 25, 2017


That suggests they are preparing for the hurricane to be a cluster fuck, which is likely true but an unusual level of self awareness.

I think it's far more likely that they don't have a clue what's going on with the hurricane and haven't given a single thought to "preparation", but have the dawning suspicion that they don't actually know how to handle any potential outcome of the storm.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 6:00 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Welp....

A Pardon for Arpaio Would Put Trump in Uncharted Territory
But if the president can immunize his agents in this manner, the courts will effectively lose any meaningful authority to protect constitutional rights against invasion by the executive branch.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:01 PM on August 25, 2017 [42 favorites]


But if the president can immunize his agents in this manner, the courts will effectively lose any meaningful authority to protect constitutional rights against invasion by the executive branch.

Well normally the legislative branch would be a check on the executive branch...
posted by Talez at 6:03 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Since it's a slow news night:

Richard Spencer stayed at Trump's D.C. hotel while he planned the Charlottesville rally (Business Insider)
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [33 favorites]


@AndrewBeatty: A White House Official says : "Sebastian Gorka did not resign, but I can confirm he no longer works at the White House."

Why oh why must every single story have a clusterfuck behind it with these people?
posted by zachlipton at 6:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [37 favorites]



I'm really hating this whole Trump cycle thing. He's on his screw you all high right now. I AM PRESIDENT. Regardless of the hurricane he's going to get bad press on this from everyone outside the Fox friendly bubble. And if Harvey goes anywhere near worst case scenario there will be all sorts of consequences that he has to deal with, including potentially some severe economic fallout. He is just not capable of dealing with it and is going to screw up publically and get flack. (I'm hoping that the people in the admin who actually do the work don't). So he'll be brought down from his high and boom we're in for another cycle of him working himself back up again with more shit he's obsessing about.
posted by Jalliah at 6:08 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why oh why must every single story have a clusterfuck behind it with these people?

Water is wet. Bears shit in the woods. Trump clusterfucks.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:09 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why oh why must every single story have a clusterfuck behind it with these people?

Because it keeps people confused.
posted by rhizome at 6:09 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]




Fucking weak. Buh bye next year.

@JeffFlake:
Regarding the Arpaio pardon, I would have preferred that the President honor the judicial process and let it take its course.
posted by chris24 at 6:14 PM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


I think it makes more sense when you call it "a Category 5 Shit-Storm".

Only 21% of Arizonans supported pardoning Arpaio.
But that 21% represents Trump's base (and almost all of Arizona's law enforcement).
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Joe Arpaio‏ @RealSheriffJoe
Thank you @realdonaldtrump for seeing my conviction for what it is: a political witch hunt by holdovers in the Obama justice department!
Fucking piece of fucking shit.
posted by Talez at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [79 favorites]


Because it keeps people confused.

We need to stop giving them credit for blah-blah dimensional blah. Even if they're trying to be super Machiavellian, they are failing miserably. Trump seems to be unaware of what happens to administrations that fuck up the handling of natural disasters or look uncaring about them.
Bush didn't pay attention to the biggest news story of the moment because he was on vacation and allowed himself to get isolated from the country.
Do that AND at the same time cynically perpetrate horrendous stuff, using the disaster as cover? God help you. Of course, that was in the old days when there were limits to what crazy shit people would stand for inertly.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:19 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]



2017. The year of the chyron writer.

MSNBC photo

'Trump pardons Arpaio admist cat 4 hurricane and new revelations about Russia probe'
posted by Jalliah at 6:19 PM on August 25, 2017 [44 favorites]


If they cram Gorka and the transgender ban in there, you'll only be able to see Ari's hair.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


there will be all sorts of consequences that he has to deal with

?

Trump? Consequences? *smug ass face*
posted by petebest at 6:22 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


I took a break from the world tonight to finish Banner Saga, so at least all of this news didn't ruin a happy evening.

(Banner Saga is great just... it's bleak.)
posted by Slackermagee at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Considering the transgender ban was right after everyone was talking about McCain's brain cancer, I'm pretty sure Donald Trump just pardoned Arpaio because he was mad the news was talking about a hurricane instead of him.
posted by ckape at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump? Consequences? *smug ass face*

Okay true. I should have said 'consequences that he should deal with and he'll have people bugging and picking at him to try to get him to deal with them. It's all too complicated for him and he can't handle complicated and he gets mad and goes into a foul mode.
posted by Jalliah at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Category 4 Hurricane about to slam into TX, DPRNK launching what appears to be a ballistic missile...seems like an opportunity for a hostile adversary to create more chaos in the United States, if they have the inkling...Not good.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 7:25 PM on August 25[/
I don't like the plot of his new 'Red Dawn' reboot.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sounds like Gorka did not resign, was pushed.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:35 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Only 21% of Arizonans supported pardoning Arpaio.

That 21% is the only group who will still have the right to vote by 2020.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:37 PM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump seems to be unaware of what happens to administrations that fuck up the handling of natural disasters or look uncaring about them.
What happens? I don't recall anything but low approval ratings and bad press for a POTUS who had already won re-election.
posted by xyzzy at 6:37 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Category 4 Hurricane about to slam into TX, DPRNK launching what appears to be a ballistic missile...seems like an opportunity for a hostile adversary to create more chaos in the United States, if they have the inkling...Not good.

Spoiler: The hostile adversary turned out to be Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:38 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


What happens? I don't recall anything but low approval ratings and bad press

And the Dems taking both houses of Congress in the 2006 mid-terms.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:39 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


Gooooohrka was moooooohst suhhhhhhhhertainly nooooooot puuuuushed, that's riiiiiiidicuuuulous and noooo oooone buuuuuuuhleeeeeeves it fowr eeeeven uuuh siiiiiiiingleeee moooooohmunt.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


And the Dems taking both houses of Congress in the 2006 mid-terms.

There is no realistic math that allows the Democrats to take the Senate in 2018 or 2020.
posted by Talez at 6:41 PM on August 25, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump is a fucking coward. If he'd had any balls at all, he would have pardoned Arpaio when he was in Phoenix. And then the cops would have had real reasons to use tear gas.
posted by WidgetAlley at 6:41 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


There is no realistic math that allows the Democrats to take the Senate in 2018 or 2020.

I'm going to need a quick refresher on imaginary and irrational numbers, then.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Per the currently redlining-and-smoking whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com, pee-tape raconteur and former British spy archetype Christopher Steele has been ordered to give a deposition in the libel case against BuzzFeed news. The link goes to Faux News so no link here.

TIL BuzzFeed was sued for libel in Gawker-Hogan's Broward county, Florida, for publishing the "unverified, error-prone allegations" of the Steele dossier by a Russian tech guy no one has heard of. Apparently.

And now this:
(*waits for next clusterfuck*)
posted by petebest at 6:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


TIL BuzzFeed was sued for libel in Gawker-Hogan's Broward county, Florida, for publishing the "unverified, error-prone allegations" of the Steele dossier by a Russian tech guy no one has heard of. Apparently.

This happened back in February. BuzzFeed hemmed and hawed but the USDC is going to make it answer the complaint. Apparently.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:47 PM on August 25, 2017


Talez: "There is no realistic math that allows the Democrats to take the Senate in 2018 or 2020."

2018 would be very difficult. If they do well in 2018, 2020 is doable.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:47 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


And in 2005 Rove was bragging about a permanent Republican majority. A year later they lost both houses.
posted by chris24 at 6:50 PM on August 25, 2017 [13 favorites]


What happens? I don't recall anything but low approval ratings and bad press for a POTUS who had already won re-election.

Yes, exactly. A relatively popular president's approval ratings went into the toilet, and large swaths of the public turned on him. Now apply that to a titanically incompetent loathsome unpopular president with 35% approval who already has members of his own party talking openly about primarying him, 200 days into his first term.

But Trump seems able to get away with literally anything, so it's probably moot. I mean, no other human in elective office could skate on the Nazi-loving shit he said last week, and now the GOP Congress is ready to agree with him in public.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:50 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


What if Trump has already decided he won't win reelection and might not even run? It goes against all political logic, but that's Trump. If he keeps enflaming the base and driving a wedge between them and us, he could leave office and then become like The Godfather of the Republican Party for life.

He could just do rallies and push little Trumplings into office all across the country without having to actually govern (BORING! LAME!). Trump also doesn't really care what policies his minions drum up, so long as they are Pro Trump. Single Payer? Sure! But with a tax loophole for The Trump Org. Infrastructure? Of course, let's give all the contracts to Trump's friends (BUILD THE WALL)!

In such a crazy universe, it would be in Trump's favor to run against Congressional Republicans and basically force them to impeach him. Then he gets to play martyr and call on his army of primary voters to vote em out. Anyone who voted for my impeachment is a traitor! You chose me as your President. Those Washington swamp monsters stole your country. So you, America, have to vote them out! Support Trump PAC, run for office, and you will make America Great Again!

We're never getting rid of him.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm going to need a quick refresher on imaginary and irrational numbers, then.

The absolute best scenario you would have to gain 2 in 2018 (Arizona and Nevada) while picking up Maine in 2020 for 51. Gaining 2 in 2018 requires you to hold seats in ND, MT, ID, and MO which are firmly R+ a depressingly large number, outside the typical swing of a wave election. Most of these came in D hands with a massive Obama coalition not a midterm where D turnout slips dramatically.

2020 is the easier year but 2018 is the Democrats trying to run the table where one slip means the entire thing comes crashing down.
posted by Talez at 6:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


Finally, he signed the Disaster Proclamation.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:52 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


so, really and for real: when do we man the barricades? is it now?

I'm still fighting within the usual parameters, mind you, and with everything that I have, but at what point is that not enough? I still think we have a while to go until then, but am I hopelessly deluded?

metafilter, I am frightened.
posted by dogheart at 6:52 PM on August 25, 2017 [33 favorites]


Talez: "The absolute best scenario you would have to gain 2 in 2018 (Arizona and Nevada) while picking up Maine in 2020 for 51. Gaining 2 in 2018 requires you to hold seats in ND, MT, ID, and MO which are firmly R+ a depressingly large number, outside the typical swing of a wave election. Most of these came in D hands with a massive Obama coalition not a midterm where D turnout slips dramatically."

IN, not ID.

Also, you're missing Gardner up in CO in 2020, who is quite unpopular.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


So it makes the 2020 math slightly less treacherous but I still have little faith on how much we can hold in 2018.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


The absolute best scenario you would have to gain 2 in 2018 (Arizona and Nevada) while picking up Maine in 2020 for 51.

2020 has a few more opportunities. Colorado, Montana, Iowa, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina. I think those are all possibilities, CO and NC are the best bets. But depending on the candidate even some of the others aren't impossible (Alaska or Kentucky maybe?). It's a Presidential year, so Dems will have an advantage if we get an exciting national candidate. For me, 2020 looks like a good year for Democrats. 2018 looks horrific.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:59 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


This happened back in February. BuzzFeed hemmed and hawed but the USDC is going to make it answer the complaint. Apparently.

The suit was from February. Yesterday Fox reported that Steele was ordered to testify by the Florida judge. It now goes to Britain for more considered hemming and hawing.
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on August 25, 2017


Well, there's no real end to the Senate discussion, but I will say that in an HRC presidency, yes, I would expect something like R +4. With DJT in, I'd probably say...no net change, maybe D +1. Historically, the out party does very well in holding on to incumbent seats in a Senate midterm.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:05 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


DOJ confims that they had nothing to do with Arpaio pardon.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:06 PM on August 25, 2017 [34 favorites]


Gaining 2 in 2018 requires you to hold seats in ND, MT, ID, and MO which are firmly R+ a depressingly large number, outside the typical swing of a wave election

Trump basically own goaled himself in MT for 2018 by appointing Zinke to Interior. The MT GOP is still trying to figure out who to run.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:07 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


Considering the transgender ban was right after everyone was talking about McCain's brain cancer, I'm pretty sure Donald Trump just pardoned Arpaio because he was mad the news was talking about a hurricane instead of him.

I think it was the reaction to his "on many sides" riff that triggered it. He lost his feeling of dominance & had to get it back, then decided to stretch it out for maximum impact instead of just announcing it for real in Phoenix. Some of his staff may have used the timing to minimize the impact in a "help him in spite of himself" manner but Trump himself has no concept of strategy, only satisfying his bottomless needs.
posted by scalefree at 7:07 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Historically,

Heh. What's the opposite of that? "Bananapantstically, we're due for something no one knows what, if ever."
posted by petebest at 7:07 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think it was the reaction to his "on many sides" riff that triggered it

Reminded me of those misty, watercolored memories of eleven months ago:
@onlxn

(cheers) RYAN: Rally?
TRUMP: Yep. Bobby Knight's introducing me. I had him praise Paterno.
RYAN: Why?
TRUMP: Just seeing if there's a bottom

4:12 PM - 22 Sep 2016

posted by petebest at 7:16 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is there somewhere I can go to just beat something with a baseball bat?
posted by zennie at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


zennie: those places actually exist. Break room, rage room, anger room, other names.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:20 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


But if the president can immunize his agents in this manner, the courts will effectively lose any meaningful authority to protect constitutional rights against invasion by the executive branch.

...and it'll get decided in the courts. Guess how much they like preserving the power to enforce their own orders?
posted by leotrotsky at 7:21 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


We thought about offering our sound-proof audiology booths to allow people to just go in and fucking scream. I've done it and it's wonderful. (And now that I think about it, we could then treat their vocal cord hemorrhages)
posted by Fritzle at 7:21 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


Is there somewhere I can go to just beat something with a baseball bat?

I know you're joking, but I literally saw an ad for just that at an outlet mall near my parents' place. I think it was called a "wreck room" where you could pay to, like, let your rage out and wreck some shit. I have been sorely tempted, I'm not gonna lie.
posted by yasaman at 7:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha, comment on Maggie Haberman tweet about Gorka's ousting: "Night of the short fingers."
posted by Don Pepino at 7:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [39 favorites]


Public protest theater idea for anyone who's down:

You know how whenever there's some kind of natural disaster, some kind of evangelical bumfluff will be on the air being interviewed about how the disaster is God's punishment for allowing people with foot fetishes to live in peace or whatthefuckever?

....Does anyone want to take on the persona of a minister of an obscure church somewhere and try to make a statement that Hurricane Harvey is a clear indication of God's wrath against Trump? You could even hit all three of his actions today - Arapio Pardon, the transgender military ban, and ending DACA - by saying that that's why it's a Category 3 storm ("three points! One for each of Trump's 3 sins!"). I can help you brainstorm your talking points and pose as your church secretary or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/901263061511794688

I can't fucking believe he's tweeting this while a cat 4 hurricane is making landfall on the US. This man is pure garbage.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 7:25 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


Batting cages. And if, during your session of whacking balls, the horrific well of rage finally transforms you into a hideous monster that would threaten the nearby minigolfers and go-karters, you're already in a cage!
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [6 favorites]


Maybe Donald Trump is trying to do as much outrageous shit as possible so that when people 100 years from now hear the name Trump, "Pee Tape" is not the first phrase that pops into their mind
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:42 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


if the president can immunize his agents in this manner, the courts will effectively lose any meaningful authority to protect constitutional rights against invasion by the executive branch.

Constitutional law experts: any chance that Trump's pardon could be challenged on the grounds of separation of powers? That somehow contempt proceedings are not so much "offenses against the United States" as offenses against the court, since they're not a result of the usual prosecutor/grand jury system?

Even if the argument is a litle thin, courts may go for it on the basis of the existential threat to their power. And just as Trump has the last word with executive decisions, courts get the last word on such a challenge. Even a Supreme Court ruling that is blatantly wrong and self serving, Trump has no appeal (except to armed citizens or the Army).
posted by msalt at 7:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


The remedy for an executive abusing his powers is impeachment. That's it.
posted by Justinian at 7:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [47 favorites]


I honestly don't believe that, because impeachment doesn't undo the effect of the act. The logical consequence of that position is that Trump, in a fit of pique, could pardon all criminals for ever proactively. And nobody could undo it. They could impeach him, but all (federal, criminal) law would still be eliminated forever.

I just don't believe that could be true. In the same sense that gross negligence always overrules any releases you sign for negligence, there has to be a level of abuse of pardon power that just can't stand. And the Supreme Court gets to decide what that level is.
posted by msalt at 8:03 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


There's a detail in Trump's tweet about the pardon that stands out to me: "I am pleased to inform you that I have just granted a full Pardon to 85 year old American patriot Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He kept Arizona safe!"

[does the series of photos zooming in on "85 year old American patriot" thing]

It's not uncommon for age to be a consideration in the sense of "he's spent a long time in prison and is now an old man" (or, in the case of some state parole boards: "he's an old man with expensive medical conditions, which we'll now make someone else's problem). But that's not the sense Trump is using it, and he chooses to highlight Arpaio's age as one of the only things he's saying in his limited 140 characters.

Trump sees an old guy "American patriot" facing jail for blowing off the Constitution and the Judiciary, and it's getting a little existential up in that head of his. He thinks old white "patriots" shouldn't have consequences for their actions, whether they're named Arpaio or Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


ITMFA
posted by tonycpsu at 8:04 PM on August 25, 2017 [45 favorites]


In the same sense that gross negligence always overrules any releases you sign for negligence, there has to be a level of abuse of pardon power that just can't stand

But it can't, because by definition, we supposedly trust the holder of the office.

And honestly - he's not the first example of this being used to circumvent law. When the VA governor pardoned 60,000 felons, he did so not on a sober examination of all of their cases, but because he felt that the law preventing them from voting was wrong. And we gave him the power to make that decision, but at the same time, if you elect a monster who thinks, say, laws against hate crimes are wrong, there is nothing to stop them from pardoning 60,000 KKK members. It's simply never been built in, because we assumed we would have at least moderately good leaders.
posted by corb at 8:08 PM on August 25, 2017 [12 favorites]


we assumed we would have at least moderately good leaders.

Boy were we ever dumb.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:11 PM on August 25, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yes, and why, why, whyyyyy? We'd just declared independence from George III, noted porphyria sufferer and crazed loon fifteen minutes previous to setting all this up, and he was absolutely buckwild crazy and his pee was purple. (Source: I saw that movie about it.) How could we not know something like a DJT could be in our future?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:15 PM on August 25, 2017 [9 favorites]




When the VA governor pardoned 60,000 felons

Reinstating voting rights to people who've already served their sentences is not really in the same category. And the USA is pretty much alone in lifetime disenfranchement of people convicted of certain classes of crime, anyway.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 8:18 PM on August 25, 2017 [40 favorites]


“This is an abuse of the presidential pardon and a full-throated endorsement of selected racial prosecution and bigotry,” Rep. Grijalva said. “If you're wronged by law enforcement, this president doesn't have your back. Racist vigilantism has a champion in the White House. This sets a sad precedent that only further divides our nation.”
posted by MrVisible at 8:23 PM on August 25, 2017 [30 favorites]


I'm old enough to remember when we were all hoping that Trump going on vacation for two weeks would give us a short reprieve from the madness. But guess what? The first day of his vacation was when he made his "fire and fury" statement, which, though it feels like two years ago was just over two weeks ago. Of course, since then we've had Charlottesville, the McConnell feud, Bannon firing, Gorka firing, Arizona rally, business councils disbanding, Afghanistan speech, trans military ban, another NK missile, fucking Arpaio pardon and threats to shut down the govt, amongst other things. All while on vacation. And by all accounts he has a pretty rocky September ahead of him as well. And as horrifying and unstable and out-of-control this seems to most of us, I'm guessing that for the Trump family this kind of chaos is totally business as usual. Sadly the rest of us can't just ignore the dysfunction, as we might do with the crank who lives down the street. We all get to go along for the ride.

Also, Franken/Klobuchar 2020 is my new fever dream.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:24 PM on August 25, 2017 [14 favorites]


"He kept Arizona safe" from that pesky Constitution.
posted by Oyéah at 8:25 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


I honestly don't believe that, because impeachment doesn't undo the effect of the act. The logical consequence of that position is that Trump, in a fit of pique, could pardon all criminals for ever proactively. And nobody could undo it.

That's argumentum ad consequentiam... that the results would be terrible does not in and of itself imply that it would therefore be unconstitutional. That said, I believe the President must be specific in his pardons. So he could pardon everyone currently in federal prison but I don't think he could pardon everyone in the country proactively for every possible federal crime they could commit. Where would he find the time?

But like I said, the main argument is a fallacy; sometimes terrible things are allowed.

Impeachment is the solution.
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [8 favorites]


When the VA governor pardoned 60,000 felons, he did so not on a sober examination of all of their cases, but because he felt that the law preventing them from voting was wrong

Yes, but I think that example supports my point. Because the Virginia Supreme Court ruled that he had exceeded his power with the blanket pardon and forced him try another, much more limited method.

posted by msalt at 8:26 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


triggerfinger: "Also, Franken/Klobuchar 2020 is my new fever dream."

Probably not, because of the same state thing. Remember when Cheney had to fake up Wyoming residency?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:28 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


(And more pertinently, a pardon can only be granted for a past action. The act does not have to have been charged yet but it must have been committed at the time of the pardon. You can't pardon someone for an act they might commit 5 years in the future.)
posted by Justinian at 8:29 PM on August 25, 2017 [3 favorites]


McCain: Pardon "undermines [Trump's] claim for the respect of rule of law."

[Yes, yes, insert "concerned" jokes here.]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [19 favorites]


That's argumentum ad consequentiam... that the results would be terrible does not in and of itself imply that it would therefore be unconstitutional.

I appreciate the knowledge, thanks. But wouldn't the possible consequences have bearing on a separation of powers claim? A provision that gives one branch the power to declare another branch null would certainly seem overbroad, or more likely, they could argue that he is misinterpreting the clause which implicitly does not apply to judicial contempt because he is directly attacking the judiciary's constitutional power. (in something like a "penumbra of privacy rights" reach).

Like I said, it might be a shitty argument but the Supreme Court has made shitty decisions before for much less important (and less self-serving) reasons. And they get the final word on the decision.

a pardon can only be granted for a past action.

Interesting. Could that be another stretch argument, that contempt is a charge related to an ongoing relationship between the contemnor and the court, not a discreet violation of US Criminal Law, and therefore does not count as "an offense against the United States?"
posted by msalt at 8:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


So Hunter Walker has a new version of Gorka's departure:
According to the Washington Examiner’s Sarah Westwood, Gorka said it was “disappointing” that the White House said he was fired, because “I resigned.”

A source with knowledge of the situation said Gorka did indeed resign—but only after being informed on Friday by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly that his security clearance had been revoked, which would have made it impossible for him to continue in his White House job. Gorka was on vacation at the time and due to return on Monday. Instead, after hearing from Kelly, he submitted his resignation.
I mean, his job was just going on TV anyway, so I'm really not understanding why having his clearance revoked would have meant he had to go. Also, assuming that's correct, that means he had a clearance this whole time.
posted by zachlipton at 8:35 PM on August 25, 2017 [18 favorites]


Interesting. Could that be another stretch argument, that contempt is a charge related to an ongoing relationship between the contemnor and the court, not a discreet violation of US Criminal Law, and therefore does not count as "an offense against the United States?"

You're beyond my pay grade now, I'm afraid. I'd bet against that working but that's just a gut feeling and not based on actual knowledge. Everything I've read says that the President's pardon powers are broad and subject to very little review but beyond that I couldn't say on the specifics of your argument.
posted by Justinian at 8:38 PM on August 25, 2017


Come revisit that time Arpaio installed webcams in his jail so people could gawk at the prisoners, including one that showed women using the toilet.

As Kevin Kruse points out, it really seems like Arpaio and Trump had a lot in common here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:39 PM on August 25, 2017 [47 favorites]


McCain: Pardon "undermines [Trump's] claim for the respect of rule of law."

[Yes, yes, insert "concerned" jokes here.]


Still stronger than Flake's statement on Twitter: Regarding the Arpaio pardon, I would have preferred that the President honor the judicial process and let it take its course.
posted by egregious theorem at 8:48 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


How long have we known that Trump would pardon Arpaio? Certainly long enough for resistance leaders to deploy a rapid, bodies-in-the-street response when the occasion occurred.

What's that? It's unrealistic to think a rapid, bodies-in-the-street response could be organized for deployment at an indefinite time in a matter of mere days? Well, how many months have we all known beyond any shadow of a doubt that we urgently need to get our shit together?

Ever since the first major protest of the election result was scheduled, months in advance, and weeks before the electoral college convened, for the day after inauguration, it has seemed likely to me that the "resistance" may have been at least partially co-opted in advance, at the highest levels. After all, let's not forget that what we are living through is the culmination of a decades-long coup in the making. An actual, bonafide, no-hyperbole, vast, right-wing conspiracy. Do you think they wouldn't arrange for the inevitable pushback to be led by a leashed and neutered creature if they possibly could?

The alternative is that the resistance movement's sensibilities are, frankly, kind of dumb. And there's no reason both can't be true. For example, Gorka out = Good? Bannon out = Good? Why would anybody believe that? Did Lewandowski out = Good? Did out even mean out? No, it meant redeployment to another front in the war.

Collectively, we appear to be every bit as at sea as "fool me once" G-Dub.

Soon, 800,000 innocent people are going to have their lives ripped away from them. They will enter detention for an indefinite period. Does that remind you of anything?

And what will happen next? It depends entirely on how far the metastasis has progressed by the time the next decision is made.

Self-quoting from January 28:
If you still think there are going to be elections in 2018 that mean anything, I don't know what to tell you. You can't use a broken system to fix that very same broken system. People in streets is what's called for.
General strike, people. FFS. If not now, when? Politics is broken. Law is crumbling. But money still works. It's one of the last powerful tools we have.

How in hell can we ever hope to progress toward a truly humane civilization if it isn't underpinned by people at less risk being willing to put it all on the line for those who are more vulnerable? Without that commitment, the words, "None of us is free until all of us are free," mean nothing.

Occupy America.

William H. Johnsen: "If it is to be, it is up to me."
posted by perspicio at 8:49 PM on August 25, 2017 [20 favorites]


guiseroom: "he believes Trump is a great emancipator who will liberate the white and black races from domination by the Cherokee Indians."

Okay, that's a new one.

Artw: "Healthcare is part of compensation. They've basically decided to pay one class of people less. That would seem actionable."

And it's not like if you are living on some ship or deep in a combat zone you can just slip over to the local walk in clinic.
posted by Mitheral at 8:53 PM on August 25, 2017 [2 favorites]


Twitter thread from PhoenixNewTimes‏ about covering Arpaio for 20 years.
posted by dagosto at 8:58 PM on August 25, 2017 [29 favorites]




Basic linguistic analysis of Trump's Phoenix speech: average characters per word: 4.2; Flesch-Kincaid grade level: 5.2 (Imgur link, "archived" from a Facebook post)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:30 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, this is not kakistocracy any longer. More like kakisto-anarchy.
posted by runcifex at 9:33 PM on August 25, 2017 [7 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: Professor Martin Redish in The New York Times has a novel argument that Arpaio's pardon is unconstitutional. I wonder if the sentencing judge will agree?
Many legal scholars argue that the only possible redress is impeachment — itself a politicized, drawn-out process. But there may be another route. If the pardon is challenged in court, we may discover that there are, in fact, limits to the president’s pardon power after all.
...
But if the president can immunize his agents in this manner [that is, tell them that he'll pardon them for any violations of judicial injunctions], the courts will effectively lose any meaningful authority to protect constitutional rights against invasion by the executive branch. This is surely not the result contemplated by those who drafted and ratified the Fifth Amendment, and surely not the result dictated by precepts of constitutional democracy. All that would remain to the courts by way of enforcement would be the possibility of civil damage awards, hardly an effective means of stopping or deterring invasions of the right to liberty.
(Emphasis mine.) Trump has pushed the boundaries of acceptable and expected practices practically since his first day in office, if not well before. I don't expect him to stop now, not for this.

Dark days ahead.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:44 PM on August 25, 2017 [27 favorites]


Erik Loomis: Make America White Again
All I can say is that the Republican Party is an explicitly white supremacist party and it gets more so every day. Congressional Republicans will do absolutely nothing about any of this. Nothing. Not about Charlottesville. Not about Arapio. Not about the racist violence to come. At most, they will furrow their brows. The Republican Party is a real threat to everything that has ever been close to great about the United States.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:51 PM on August 25, 2017 [78 favorites]


@ericbradner: (CNN)
Over a 9-day span, it's tough to overstate how much of a mess President Trump made of Arizona for the GOP. 1/6
- His pro-Ward Aug. 17 tweet sounded like an endorsement. So he used his rally to send every signal it wasn’t, barring Ward signs, etc. 2/6
- In a backstage huddle, he admitted Ward was weak and sought another Flake primary challenger. 3/6
- But it was too late. Parts of Trump world, including Hannity, misread and got behind Ward -- spooking non-Ward folks who want Flake out. 4/6
- Now, the Arpaio pardon has given Arizona Democrats the most powerful tool they could possibly want to turn out Latinos in '18 and '20. 5/6
- Important to remember, Trump only won Arizona by 3.5 points. That’s closer than Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado. 6/6
- Addendum: On the same election day, Trump won Maricopa County by 3. Arpaio lost it by 12. The potential for damage is pretty clear.
posted by chris24 at 10:34 PM on August 25, 2017 [54 favorites]




Professor Martin Redish in The New York Times has a novel argument that Arpaio's pardon is unconstitutional. I wonder if the sentencing judge will agree?

Justinian and msalt,

let me quickly say THANK YOU for hashing this out. Your opinions and insights, and discussion of this has been wonderful, and in my optimism, I look forward to the Judiciary at least pushing back, and perhaps giving the Legislature the chance to consider NOT having a whole big Legal issue, and get off their asses and ITMFA.
posted by mikelieman at 10:46 PM on August 25, 2017 [5 favorites]


Thanks! It certainly seems worth a try to file a challenge, anyway. The refs owe the Democrats a makeup call for the 2000 election, at the very least.
posted by msalt at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2017 [4 favorites]


I will eat a cake if the judiciary invents a major new limitation on the pardon power out of whole cloth because of Arpaio. I don't know what would happen if Trump started pardoning hundreds of current law enforcement officials for ignoring the Constitution—that would be just a weirdly bureaucratic way of imposing large-scale fascism—, but I can't possibly see the Supreme Court going all moon law on the pardon power over this.

Now, what I can see are a host of civil suits against Arpaio that cite his acceptance of the pardon as an admission of guilt, though whether it really is one or not is up for debate.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 PM on August 25, 2017 [17 favorites]


Martin H. Redish: professor of constitutional law at Northwestern and the author of “Judicial Independence and the American Constitution: A Democratic Paradox”, and noted Moon lawyer.
posted by Coventry at 11:42 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is a tragedy. But now we face the spectre of Trump disgracing a hero's memory. U.S. Black Hawk helicopter crashes off Yemen, one service member missing.
posted by scalefree at 11:43 PM on August 25, 2017 [1 favorite]


Perhaps in a bad call for my mental health, I read the story about Arapaio's deputies' cruelty to a dog. if you are wondering, 'Maybe the Sheriff is a good guy," I guess read the story. Otherwise do yourself a favor, if you love animals at all, avoid that story.
posted by angrycat at 12:14 AM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


From separate hiding places in the arena, Gary Cohn, Stephen Miller, Kellyanne Conway, Sarah Huckabee Sanders and General Kelly look up into the night at Gorka's image projected on the skydome...
posted by darkstar at 12:57 AM on August 26, 2017 [58 favorites]


The President who ran on "law and order" pardoned a sheriff

I want to make a Law and Order joke here, but all the good ones have been done done.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:00 AM on August 26, 2017 [26 favorites]


who has standing to file suit over the pardon? the az atty gen was my first thought, but i looked him up. R. nuthin doin.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:08 AM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Make America Great Again by destroying all of the things that hold massive populations together. It's outrageous that we are all witnessing this in such detail; it's like a political tsunami. Hold on tight, lovelies.
posted by h00py at 3:02 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Arpaio got points by raiding puppy mills and generally being kind to dogs. His deputies shot one or two, but at least one of those shootings also wound up with a dead kid. Don't get wound up over Arpaio's cruelty to animals -- you'll run into arguments saying he was good for dogs -- but do protest the reckless slaughter of this human being.
posted by CCBC at 3:22 AM on August 26, 2017


Gah, so sorry. The hurricane. Poor wording.
posted by h00py at 3:37 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is "criminal contempt " even an "offense against the laws of the United States"? I would have thought that it's a judicial prerogative, like having the power to compel witnesses.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


DOJ confims that they had nothing to do with Arpaio pardon.

They'll retract the confirmation once he has been put in charge of them.
posted by acb at 5:35 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is "criminal contempt " even an "offense against the laws of the United States"?
18 U.S. Code § 401 - Power of court

A court of the United States shall have power to punish by fine or imprisonment, or both, at its discretion, such contempt of its authority, and none other, as—
(1) Misbehavior of any person in its presence or so near thereto as to obstruct the administration of justice;
(2) Misbehavior of any of its officers in their official transactions;
(3) Disobedience or resistance to its lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree, or command.

It's "criminal" contempt because it's punishable by imprisonment (the penalty for civil contempt is a fine).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:10 AM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


The President who ran on "law and order" pardoned a sheriff

Of course he did.

"Law and Order", from a Republican, simply means "oppressing people of color and imprisoning as many as possible."

Republican == white supremacist. It has since 1968.

From a Republican the phrase "law and order" does not mean "enforcing the law equally". It just means using the police to oppress people of color and other minorities. That's all.

So of course Trump pardoned Arpaio.

Also, and much more important, pardoning Arpaio gave Trump two of the four things he desires most in life: attention and the adulation of his cultists. Trump is very easy to understand, he will do whatever gives him what he wants. And pardoning Arpaio gave him what he wanted.

there's no long term planning in mind. There will be bad long term effects, but Trump didn't think of those. All he cared about was the hit of attention and adoration it'd give him.
posted by sotonohito at 6:20 AM on August 26, 2017 [40 favorites]


That NYT article above is pretty unanswerable - that pardoning state agents for Constitutional crimes is a basic annulment of the Constitution itself.

It removes the power of the courts to uphold the Constitution.

Regardless of the immediate (and horrifying) implications for racism and racists, this by itself is the functional equivalent of a coup d'etat.

You've had your country stolen. Not will have, not are in the process of having. The contract has been broken.

Why you lot aren't out on the streets by now is beyond me.
posted by Devonian at 6:38 AM on August 26, 2017 [98 favorites]


Preach it, perspicio. It's absolutely flabbergasting to me, as an argentinian, the lack of response to the outrageous shit coming out of you government. Making a phone call and marching on a saturday is not cutting it. It's so painfully clear.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 6:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


Was going to make the argument that the USA wasn't bulletproofed against bad leaders for the same reason it was ideologically set up to put anyone in power: government by the people. Trump is not king, and if 300 million people (or the critical mass thereof) showed up tomorrow he'd be out on his keester by lunch. (That's good.)

What the framers could not account for is, if you'll pardon the expression, reality TV. Media as a whole is an ocean of interest in this discussion (hattip H-dogg), but to cut to the chase, television has fucked us up big time. If we were still watching the tiny, circular, black-and-white models of the post-Farnsworth era in 2017 we'd have a better grip on it both as a culture and as a government. But it's moved incredibly fast and we're not ready. (That's bad).

The answer is a kind of social media - a displacement of the current Mordor-which-barfed-up-Trump with something/somethings that is/are not Facebook. The golden age is near, we have the equivalent of circular black-and-white technology, but it involves a psychological shift w/r/t television that only television, or its analogue such as a viral YouTube, can create. (That's good and bad).

I'd really like to see a MeFi Github of sorts to get that boat in the water, but that's not required for it to happen, it'd just be fun.
posted by petebest at 7:00 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


MODS: Thank you for your skill, your emotional intelligence, your attentiveness. Thank you for all the damage you mitigate, for all the weeding you do so that we can have this somewhat unruly, but by and large health-supportive and non-toxic garden in which to meet. Thank you for putting up with me and those like me whose impulses don't always live up to our ideals.

Thank you. It means so much to me, I can't even say.
posted by perspicio at 7:13 AM on August 26, 2017 [47 favorites]


Guys, the Arpaio pardon became real 12 freaking hours ago. Before that it was just something that came out of Trump's mouth, and there was nothing to distinguish it from the nonstop river of bullshit that also comes out of his mouth. Please give people a damn minute.

Besides which I imagine that east coasters are kind of not sure how to proceed? They may not know how bad Arpaio is, but that aside, I personally feel like I don't have standing to protest. It's just not my damn business what goes on in Arizona. What makes it my business is the Constitutional ramifications, and those are still mostly hypothetical.

(not only have I never been west of the Mississippi, I've never been west of Philadelphia.)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:19 AM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why you lot aren't out on the streets by now is beyond me.

Because he did it while we're all preoccupied with a monster fucking hurricane that might kill a lot of people. On purpose. Because he is a coward.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:20 AM on August 26, 2017 [63 favorites]


What were the Boston and Charlottesville counter-protests, if not being out in the streets?

At this point, if we took to the streets every time Trump did something terrible, we'd never have a chance to go back inside.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:31 AM on August 26, 2017 [67 favorites]


It's unclear to me what sort of protesting I could do here in California would affect the Trump administration. I suppose I could go brawl with Nazis in Alamo Square Park, but I'm pretty sure they'll be no-shows.
posted by ryanrs at 7:46 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


What the framers could not account for is, if you'll pardon the expression, reality TV.

Actually, reality TV is just a small corner of the larger and more sinister problem, the scientific perfection of propaganda slash public relations techniques combined with the kind of mass media the framers could not have imagined. The Framers saw the people as mostly independent actors who, given the freedom, would learn about their world in order to act in their own self-interest; conflict would arise mainly because those self interests aren't always in alignment for different individuals.

But since Edard Bernays and the deployment of radio and TV networks, powerful people now have sophisticated tools by which to coerce large groups of people into acting against their self interests. Distractions like reality TV are part of that, of course, but there are many other vectors acting in concert to create today's population of voters.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:49 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why you lot aren't out on the streets by now is beyond me.

Argentina is a small country dominated by a single megacity. America is much different, both larger and more distributed, so that the large days of protest are spread out and seem less significant that way. We've marched, all over, and we'll keep marching, but the administration is protected by laws and elite consensus that insulate it from the direct effects of protest. For example: it's anticipated, if polls hold, that Democrats will receive around 54% of the congressional votes next year, but only win 47% of the seats. Anyway, in general, it's just culturally repugnant to most americans to go about something like a mass strike. We'll need a few more years of terror before we stop being capitalists-in-nuce and realize that most of us are downtrodden laborers bouyed by cheap credit.
posted by dis_integration at 7:51 AM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


Yesterday, before he even did the Arpaio stunt, I was trying to write about how many people have no idea what is going on. Everyone here on these threads are very aware, but ask your non-political friends. They don't even have to be Republicans, a lot of people just think government is business as usual; a lot of old white men on TV, being useless, but also everything working like it should. Heck, remember eons ago when the Trumpists visited the White House for the first time, and thought some of the staff would stay on? That's what a lot of people think, that there is a fundamental well-oiled machine that makes sure schools work, planes can land, police get paid and old people get Medicare, and that somehow, the politicians don't really have anything to do with that. ("Keep your hands of my Medicare" -signs come to mind).
Even a lot of those who do pay attention left and right seem to think this now is just business as usual, when or if they hear about the craziness going on in the Trump administration, they mentally shrug and think it would have been the same with Clinton because all politicians are corrupt. They pay attention, but they don't have the fundamental understanding of what government is. I think over 50% of my friends have really far out theories about what government does that they have invented for themselves to make sense out of what they see happening — and that is when things are going well. Actually, its amazing that democracy sometimes works.
I blame the politicians more than the media for the deterioration of politics we are seeing across the globe. The media are magnifying the problem, but it starts and ends with politicians who have lost the connection with the people and changed the parties and other political organisations like unions into a kind of corporations with products to sell and focus on management and marketing rather than issues.
posted by mumimor at 8:03 AM on August 26, 2017 [40 favorites]


Arlington (VA) neighbors stunned by Nazi ceremony - Seems Friday was the 50th anniversary of the death of American Nazi Party leader George Lincoln Rockwell (at the hands of another Nazi) and some whiteshirts held a little vigil.
posted by adamg at 8:09 AM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


But since Edward Bernays and the deployment of radio and TV networks, powerful people now have sophisticated tools by which to coerce large groups of people into acting against their self interests. Distractions like reality TV are part of that, of course, but there are many other vectors acting in concert to create today's population of voters.

This whole thing has been my biggest preoccupation since the election, and I think it's deeper and more pervasive than merely TV: it's that the majority of our conscious realities are fundamentally informed and shaped by mediated, rather than empirical, reality, and many people collectively appear to be trying to push those mediated versions of reality that exist in their heads out into the real world. I made a long comment about this a few months ago that is salient here. I think it's very dangerous, and if this phenomenon is at all happening, it means that Trump is only a (horrible, horrible) symptom; we still need to cure the underlying illness.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:11 AM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


The "spectacle".
posted by Artw at 8:13 AM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]


Artw, exactly, and Boorstin had it pegged in 1961 (!).
posted by LooseFilter at 8:16 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's absolutely flabbergasting to me, as an argentinian, the lack of response to the outrageous shit coming out of you government. Making a phone call and marching on a saturday is not cutting it. It's so painfully clear.

As a Nicaraguan-American, let me attempt to explain at least what I understand of the differences between South/Central America responses to these things and the United States.

How many revolutions have there been in South/Central America? I can't even count. I only know that the backdrop of everything is revolution after revolution after revolution. The history of my blood is marked by it. It is inherently unstable and it feels like it has always been. Everywhere you look, governments topple, and they often topple by popular movements backed by arms. Families have enormous gaps from war after war.

When people are out in the streets protesting there, they are not simply engaging in peaceful protest - they are saying, in essence, "for now we are peaceful. In the next stage, we drag you out of your cars."

America, on the other hand, has been relatively stable for 250 years. There was an attempt at a revolution - the Civil War. It failed. It was put down quite well. Nobody has ever tried to repeat it. The historical memory is of relative stability - yes, poverty, and yes, police brutality, and yes, a host of other terrible things, but no one is afraid the secret police will come for you in the night. No one is afraid that your neighbors down the road are going to create a revolution and kill your family in the street because you're on the wrong side, or because you were too comfortable under the old regime. This just - this just doesn't happen here, and it is quite frankly a wonderful thing that I am never quite sure is real, but it seems to be.

When Americans are protesting in the street, they are saying, "We are peaceful. Our next stage will be to vote you, peacefully, out." And that's great - that is truly, truly wonderful! But it doesn't apply when the people who are enabling the problem don't have to worry about being voted out, because their people aren't protesting in the street, or they won't even be up for a vote for another six years.
posted by corb at 8:17 AM on August 26, 2017 [91 favorites]


it's deeper and more pervasive than merely TV: it's that the majority of our conscious realities are fundamentally informed and shaped by mediated, rather than empirical, reality, and many people collectively appear to be trying to push those mediated versions of reality that exist in their heads out into the real world.

The butt-end of that issue, related and inexorably attached and shittier, is the active discounting of empirical reality (rejection of self-evident truths, questioning scientific method, insistence on some mediation between themselves and Truth [often 'God' and its religions], dismantling education, etc.)
posted by carsonb at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Arlington (VA) neighbors stunned by Nazi ceremony <------ Oh my god! I was away or I would have been protesting this so hard! Right after election day our local Arlington Safeway was vandalized with swastikas and I saw it before it all got cleaned up (and told the staff about one they had missed) and I'm still sick about it.
posted by gudrun at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


the tl;dr I suppose is: when America can't even agree on whether or not it supports Nazi punching, our being in the streets is not going to have the results that people might hope it will.
posted by corb at 8:20 AM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


Anyone who is unsure that Arpaio is Scum should have a quick look at this.
PhoenixNewTimes
We've been covering Joe Arpaio for more than 20 years. Here's a couple of things you should know about him
posted by adamvasco at 8:21 AM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]


To all the talk about why people aren't out in the streets, we had a lot of back and forth about the barriers to general strikes in the U.S. way back in... February? But in addition to the well-covered issues of a) dismantling of labor, b) very limited worker protections from being fired for not showing up to work (and often thereby losing health insurance) and c) the complete firehose of shit coming out of this administration to the point where many people are already engaged in organized protest and resistance every Saturday, there's the geography and decentralization of power bit. People who live in large leftist cities in America have local governments that are protecting citizens from the worst excesses of this administration. So real local disruptive action can feel a bit like friendly fire. It's hard to translate that to something that would impact the people making these terrible decisions, because the most mobilization and organization is likely to come from the most liberal areas of the country.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:21 AM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]


The exception, of course, being D.C., where something like a general transit strike really could do something to a lot of Congresspeople. But that puts a lot of burden on one disenfranchised city.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:26 AM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


insistence on some mediation between themselves and Truth

You know, I hadn't thought about this aspect specifically, but now that you point it out, that's a giant difference among many folks, I think. A lot of us--broadly speaking--trust our brains and mostly decide for ourselves (after, hopefully, being well-informed about, e.g., a choice and some deliberation, etc.); however, a lot of us really need some kind of authority to either reinforce our decisions or give permissions for them or tell us what the decisions must be, or etc., and will not decide for ourselves. This difference seems kind of irreconcilable to me.

(This happens on a small scale at work all the time, and it can be very frustrating. So many people reflexively act like they need permission, even when the group of people at the table are the ones in charge!)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:32 AM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]


Holy shit, that Twitter thread adamvasco linked to. What an evil piece of shit.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:40 AM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


Why you lot aren't out on the streets by now is beyond me.

because it isn't going to change anything - because there's absolutely no way the majority of people are going out on the streets - hell, there wouldn't be any room for them if they did

also, because a pardon of a bad actor who thumbed his nose at the constitutional rights of others just isn't important enough to shut a society down for

we can try working within the system's rules or we can start revolutionary activities - marching in the streets is NOT going to change our government
posted by pyramid termite at 8:41 AM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


People who live in large leftist cities in America have local governments that are protecting citizens from the worst excesses of this administration

This fact gets underrated and underreported. The people who would be out in the streets, to a large extent, already live in enclaves that are organized and designed to allow for protection against the worst of this shit; think of the reporting you see about sanctuary cities denying Trump's order to prioritize deportation, or think of the statements you saw of city mayors saying they would uphold the Paris agreement. The people who would be out turning over cars live in cities, and any of the damage they would be able to do (which damage is the way that big riotous crowds show that they're serious) would harm the city more than the villains that harm would be aimed at. To an equally-remarkable-and-terrifying degree, cities are the entities still holding shit together.

But I don't expect that state of affairs to persist forever, or even to persist for very long. And when that bulwark fails, shit's going to get loud and weird and unpredictable very rapidly.
posted by penduluum at 8:42 AM on August 26, 2017 [24 favorites]


I blame the politicians more than the media

It's the same water. We need new bucket lines, but they have to be free/freemium to work, which is the catch, of course.

This FPP told me a videogame kickstarter made as much as HRC's entire prodigious campaign.

Hmmm.
posted by petebest at 8:42 AM on August 26, 2017


"Reality" has always been mediated; it's not like people had greater access to "the" truth when they were reading newspapers or waiting on news from travelers or whatever. What's changed is the frequency and ubiquity of "news," and the amplitude of those effects on our dumb lizard brains. Those are technological changes, and they can be regulated. We just haven't done it. Because Republicans.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:42 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Has a president ever pardoned someone who was convicted for violating someone's constitutional rights? We're in "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!" territory.

If you've got deplorables on your Facebook newsfeed the best mirrorworld analogy would be: Imagine Berkeley, CA issued a blanket ban on firearms, which was struck down in a federal court as blatantly violating the 2nd Amendment. Imagine the Berkeley Police Chief then said, screw it, we're going to continue confiscating every privately owned gun we see because that's how Berkeley is going to be. The only recourse is for people to sue him to get him to stop. The lawsuit is successful, but the police chief doesn't stop. So the court convicts the chief for contempt. But then a Democratic president pardons the police chief.

Is that pardon illegal? Should the executive have unlimited power of pardon not just for violating laws but violating the constitution itself? In the case that the president is protecting government gun-snatchers wouldn't the only acceptable remedy be to impeach that president?

posted by Luminiferous Ether at 8:44 AM on August 26, 2017 [94 favorites]


This Buttercream Kills Fascists
Relevant, but also creamy
posted by mumimor at 8:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Philip Bump, Washington Post:

If he'll pardon Arpaio, why wouldn’t Trump pardon those who ignore Robert Mueller?

The broader question raised by the pardon, then, is where Trump would draw the line. If he’s willing to pardon Joe Arpaio for ignoring a court order in service of a political goal Trump embraces, why wouldn’t he pardon another individual he respects for similarly ignoring a demand from the court. Say, a former employee or a family member who, say, was issued a subpoena to testify before a special prosecutor?
[The Washington Post has temporarily taken down their paywall because of the hurricane. If you like what you're reading consider buying a subscription.]
posted by Luminiferous Ether at 8:47 AM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


Not seeing Argentina's particular claim to political moral superiority here? Or is this a reference to a long-ago time? Macri is enacting all kinds of anti-labor shit there and it looks to me like BA has had a few large but not gigantic protests held ... on weekends, which have so far had little impact on Macri. Then having also been chided for inaction by Devonian, I look at Britain where the 50% that voted "remain" are docile about accepting the daily absurdities of leaving the EU -- no protests at all that I can see. I've been to 20+ protests in 6 months and am literally tithing to resistance organizations. Then I look at the effects of mega-protests in Brazil and Venezuela and again wonder when the anti-fascism magic is gonna kick in?

Protesting in the streets is necessary and good, but the fact is we Americans have a democratically elected government in power, however fascist it may be, however corrupt that may have been, and around 35-40% of Americans continue to support it strongly.

Putting tens of millions on the streets is a pipe dream. Putting them in voting booths next year is a neccesity, one which may or may not even be helped along by large scale protests.
posted by spitbull at 8:49 AM on August 26, 2017 [27 favorites]


[The Washington Post has temporarily taken down their paywall because of the hurricane. If you like what you're reading consider buying a subscription.]

If you have Amazon Prime you get a 6 month free sub and then half price digital sub as well!
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Man oh man that pardon is some serious bullshit and folks in position to do something about it had better be thinking hard about next steps.
posted by notyou at 8:50 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


> . The people who would be out in the streets, to a large extent, already live in enclaves that are organized and designed to allow for protection against the worst of this shit [...]

But I don't expect that state of affairs to persist forever, or even to persist for very long. And when that bulwark fails, shit's going to get loud and weird and unpredictable very rapidly.


Yes. Yes to all of that — though, also, with the proviso that the good places in America are patrolled by police who are on the whole ideologically aligned with Trump, and with the second proviso that the high cost of living in most of the good places itself suppresses political activity; if everyone's got to work all the fucking time to maintain a toehold in Seattle or whatever, fewer people are going to be taking to the streets.

But also — the bulwark is already falling, largely because of proviso 1: municipal police forces are in large part enemy agents. Like, the Oakland municipal government is doing what it can to prevent ICE raids there, but even so OPD are cooperating with ICE to detain people for deportation.

I guess the tl;dr of this might be "support your local antifa." I don't like that that's the best we've got, but it's the best we've got.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:52 AM on August 26, 2017 [17 favorites]


Fantastic analogy, Luminiferous Ether, and flagged as such!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:53 AM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


everyone's got to work all the fucking time to maintain a toehold in Seattle or whatever, fewer people are going to be taking to the streets.

Counterpoint: Seattle has had the largest protests relative to population of any american city, I believe, over the last 6 months.

1: municipal police forces are in large part enemy agents

Also the police have never been on the side of protesters (or even neutral) against the government at any point in modern American history. They didn't just become the agents of state power and violence when trump was elected.
posted by spitbull at 8:57 AM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


I have a question. What happens to Mueller when the government shuts down? He's government right? So will the investigation stop?
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:58 AM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


Several things:

1. The best thing to do in re Arpaio is call and write your congresspeople and the White House saying that you oppose this pardon. It won't walk the pardon back, but the more pushback they get on "Trump can just pardon people for, like, gunning people down in the street or burning a cross or hacking voting machines or assaulting their tenants, the pardon is a version of the executive order" the less likely it is to veer in that direction. An awful lot of things don't happen because there is still a political cost, not because they're illegal per se.

2. For there to be mass action in the US, widely recognized leaders or leader-organizations have to emerge. IMO, that's actually the biggest barrier to people being in the streets. This is, to a degree, happening, and may happen more - but there has to be a set of programs that mobilize people. Not necessarily "we are all rallying behind this person, who should be president" - although who knows? - but at least a number of popular organizations or organizing principles. People will go out in the streets for their church, their union, their DSA chapter, their IWW branch, their Indivisible group, etc, but those are not yet big enough to turn people out at a critical mass. Once a critical mass of people are in the streets, etc, more will join because the cost will go down. The best thing you individually can do is find and participate in a political project in opposition to the regime.
posted by Frowner at 9:02 AM on August 26, 2017 [32 favorites]


Not the entire govenment shuts down. "Essential" functions and employees stay in place. For example, my uncle was the head of a federal wildlife refuge. He, alone, remained employed. Mueller is law enforcement, which is essential.
posted by kerf at 9:04 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sorry, self-correction: I just discovered that there was a labor march in Buenos Aires last Tuesday, so yeah, weekday protests happen there. Easier when you have high unemployment though.
posted by spitbull at 9:07 AM on August 26, 2017


"Reality" has always been mediated; it's not like people had greater access to "the" truth when they were reading newspapers or waiting on news from travelers or whatever. What's changed is the frequency and ubiquity of "news," and the amplitude of those effects on our dumb lizard brains. Those are technological changes, and they can be regulated. We just haven't done it.

Yes, that's what we're saying. Reality has been mediated since symbolic communication first occurred (likely speech). The difference now is in degree, because there is a tipping point where the balance between what is known empirically is surpassed by what is known by mediation, and that makes human beings really, profoundly confused.

When balance shifts, apparently human consciousness stops properly distinguishing between what is real and what is not, or what is rational and what is felt, or etc. This is the whole aspect of mediation + mass media that a whole big group of media theorists, philosophers and other writers (mostly) were trying to warn about through the 1960s and 70s, but they just sounded to most people like hippy-quacks or something.

To dismiss this phenomenon by saying that reality has always been mediated not only states the bleedingly obvious, but also misses the essential point that the difference now is in degree (and kind--human consciousness really cannot cope well with ubiquitous, unrelenting mass mediation; it is utterly unlike anything our minds have evolved to handle). I think it's an urgent, pervasive problem, but the fruits of these modes of knowing the world, and our patterns of behavior that feed them, are so destructive and dangerous that we're too (necessarily) pre-occupied to do anything about it.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:13 AM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


secret police will come for you in the night. In the United States they are called the regular police, or the INS. They do come for people in the night, and in the day, and on the streets, and they drag people out of their cars, and beat them, choke them, rape them, kill them, and sometimes collaterally, shoot their small children.
posted by Oyéah at 9:19 AM on August 26, 2017 [28 favorites]


Nothing compared to what's happened in Latin and South American countries.
posted by Rykey at 9:21 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


To clarify: within the past ~40 years or so.
posted by Rykey at 9:23 AM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


When the topic does manage to come up in conversation with non-political friends, they often ask, infuriatingly, "what has Trump actually done?"

Unfortunately, my attention span is limited, my time finite, and my "evens" used up. My head's instead filled with political minutia these days - was Gorka fired or did he quit? - so much so that I lack good answers that aren't based on spending too much time reading far more detail than is good for me about our current blatherer-in-chief.

A brief pause and I can recall things that he's "actually done", starting with the Muslim ban, the US leaving the Paris Climate accords, failed attempts to repeal ACA and replace it with bupkis, the military ban on transgender people, costing the taxpayers extra much because he wants to go on vacation; now the pardon of ex-Sheriff Arpaio (additions welcome), but that's not an answer I have ready.
posted by fragmede at 9:24 AM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


Well, never forget that we play a role in what happens in South America. You gotta know "we" are busy in Venezuela, we have historically blocked social change in SA. The mining companies just won a chunk of Brazil's rain forest. Now people have to refight for that.
posted by Oyéah at 9:25 AM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


To dismiss this phenomenon by saying that reality has always been mediated not only states the bleedingly obvious, but also misses the essential point

No, I didn't dismiss the point, I implied that your focus was misplaced. To rhapsodize about how society is currently organized in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with our cognitive limitations is to argue for powerlessness. It's not that complicated. It's fucking television, radio, and social media. And that can be regulated. But Reagan blew up the fairness doctrine, and thirty years later this is where we are.

It's not some sort of nihilistic inevitability. It can be fixed. But it requires political will and political power, nothing else.

Whether or not that is possible without open conflict is a different (and terrifying) question, but framing it the way you have drastically overstates the problem.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:27 AM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]


was Gorka fired or did he quit? Gorka was on vacation when Kelly notified him his security clearance was revoked. So while he was in the process of a Friday firing, he quit.
posted by Oyéah at 9:27 AM on August 26, 2017


Oyéah: Absolutely agree. Disgraceful.
posted by Rykey at 9:27 AM on August 26, 2017


Counterpoint: Seattle has had the largest protests relative to population of any american city, I believe, over the last 6 months.

I think it's really important to separate what 'taking to the streets' and 'going to a protest' means, because those are not, at all, the same things.

Going to a protest, in America, usually means that someone has a permit, which requires notifying the police or parks department X amount of time in advance, which allows the police to plan for the influx of people and engage in crowd control. If you are going to get arrested, they are going to notify you in advance so you can leave if you want to. In my - Jesus, ten years - of activism, I have never seen this be effective. It wasn't effective when we marched against the war, it wasn't effective when we marched against police brutality, like - I can not recall one single instance of people going 'whoa, people are protesting peacefully? We'd better change our ways!' It makes people feel good, and it shows people you aren't alone, but it doesn't change anything.

Taking to the streets generally means you do not have a permit, which means the police are 75% more likely to arrest you on sight if there aren't enough of you, and will feel justified in arresting anyone they feel like. It means the police are unprepared and no one will be blocking traffic for you, which means they will respond with force. When you get arrested, they will keep you for longer, and there is less likely to be an organization existing to bail you out. You will have to rely on your personal resources, and you may well lose your job if they hold you for a few days.

The fact that Seattle has very large protests (usually on weekends or evenings) does not mean that Seattle has managed to defeat the problem of needing to pay the rent and remain gainfully employed in order to keep your housing, while still countering an oppressive government.
posted by corb at 9:39 AM on August 26, 2017 [36 favorites]


Mueller is law enforcement, which is essential.

That's very simplified. Not all law enforcement is 'essential' within the meaning used here. It's 'essential' for the public safety. I'm (usually, but not guaranteed to be) essential because you can't just walk away from a partially-disassembled reactor and expect the public to be safe.

An investigator like Mueller, lawyers, etc. that could be a tough sell. Who gets harmed if the investigation gets delayed a week? 'Who gets to decide what positions are essential' is a big factor. A lot of time and money is being wasted on these decisions already as we speak, and a lot more time and money will be wasted for years to come. I just the other week or so saw a court decision on an appeal from an MSPB decision, etc. -- related to the last set of furloughs we had to do.
posted by ctmf at 9:39 AM on August 26, 2017


To rhapsodize about how society is currently organized in a way that is fundamentally incompatible with our cognitive limitations is to argue for powerlessness.

I don't think so, I think it's an attempt to draw attention to the phenomenon and why it's a problem, which is a necessary first step for any solution to or amelioration of it.

It's not some sort of nihilistic inevitability. It can be fixed.

I suppose then that I'm puzzled by your argumentative stance--we agree completely on this, I've never said that it can't be changed or fixed or effectively addressed in some way; quite the opposite. I think it's urgent to talk about this phenomenon because it's our water but most people do not see that we're all swimming in it. That's a fascinating aspect to this whole problem: if a critical mass of us can see it, it's actually fairly easy to fix in some important ways.
posted by LooseFilter at 9:40 AM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


By your definition, corb, the only people who have "taken to the streets" in recent years would be the spontaneous protests that have arisen after police killings of African Americans in places like Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore, and New York. The technical (police and media) term for "taking to the street" (as opposed to organized protests) in spontaneous fashion is "riot." While often justified by immediate rage, riots tend to harm the communities from which they spring and change little.
posted by spitbull at 9:55 AM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


It wasn't effective when we marched against the war, it wasn't effective when we marched against police brutality, like - I can not recall one single instance of people going 'whoa, people are protesting peacefully? We'd better change our ways!'

There's solidarity marches, and there's protest for change. Different focus; different goals. Permit-enabled solidarity marches are great; they let people connect with each other, confirm that their interests are shared, and sort out their talking points by mass consensus in a way that more structured discussions can never do. Supporters may not realize how to articulate something succinctly until the photo of the cardboard protest sign goes viral online. ("I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.")

Protest for change - with or without a permit - only works if the viewing public is (1) sympathetic and (2) uncomfortable. So the format is different - don't wear the freak clothes; wear your Sunday best, or your professional working clothes that inspire respect: business suit, lab scrubs, priest robes - any kind of uniform. And they need to happen where they can get seen even by people who reject their ideas, or where they can disrupt the processes that are hurting people; cities are not fond of granting permits for either of those.

They work like strikes - they're meant to disrupt people's everyday lives. And the message and the messengers have to be respectable enough that the public doesn't say "lock up those semi-criminal hoodlums," but "wow, if that many people, especially those people, are upset, I guess something is probably wrong."

And that is, sigh, the best possible general reaction. All the detailed solutions and activity involved in real change happen later. The protest march, at best, makes people willing to consider real changes. The worst reaction isn't "ugh those horrible people are causing problems again;" it's "yeah, that's bad, but whaddaya gonna do?" followed by "Boys will be boys" or "haters gonna hate" or "the banks are too big to fight against" or whatever other excuse that boils down to "I'm comfortable enough to not want change that will help people who aren't me."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:01 AM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


Remember when we stopped all those wars by taking to the streets?
posted by spitbull at 10:04 AM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


Remember when we stopped all those wars by taking to the streets?

And then voted out the guy who started the wars?
posted by Talez at 10:07 AM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


> It wasn't effective when we marched against the war, it wasn't effective when we marched against police brutality, like - I can not recall one single instance of people going 'whoa, people are protesting peacefully? We'd better change our ways!' It makes people feel good, and it shows people you aren't alone, but it doesn't change anything.

Yes, exactly, all of that. The only exception to this rule I can think of is the Women's March, but that was a unique historical moment — and so many people turned out that the police were overwhelmed. Here in Oakland we didn't just expand beyond the permitted route, but actually ended up taking control of (what felt like) every single street downtown. After we collectively realized that there were too many people to move through the permitted route at anything like a reasonable speed, we ended up expanding to take the streets parallel to the planned march route, and then once that happened the cross-streets became filled with protesters, then we expanded to take more parallel streets, and so on and so on until the entire town felt like it was ours. That experience alone is what got me through February and March.

Solely because of that experience I'm not entirely skeptical of permitted protests; but if we want permitted protests to expand beyond their permit, we need to spend our time supporting organizations that can make it happen, instead of announcing on the internet that we think that it should happen. Everyone who agrees that mass unrest is necessary to dislodge this government must go join DSA. or SA or ISO, if you enjoy selling newspapers no one reads. If you're in the East Bay, check out what the Anti Police-Terror Project is up to — they're led by incredible radical organizers with decades of real experience. And if you're too liberal for commie-ish or anarch-ish orgs, do the Indivisible thing.

In any case: Find your team, whoever they are, and work with your team, as much as you can.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:11 AM on August 26, 2017 [29 favorites]


> The technical (police and media) term for "taking to the street" (as opposed to organized protests) in spontaneous fashion is "riot." While often justified by immediate rage, riots tend to harm the communities from which they spring and change little.

This is not true. First, it is not true that popular protests that don't involve asking permission from the state are "riots." Secondly, though, riots aren't bad. If nothing else, the popular expropriation that occurs during riot conditions absolutely benefit the communities that engage in it, in straightforward material ways, and the property damage that occurs during riots allows for small-scale, but meaningful transfers of money from multinationals to the local workers who repair damaged buildings.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:16 AM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


The 2016/2017 protests in South Korea are a good case study, in that they're a recent example of mass (2+ million people on occasion) street protests against a corrupt President (with a news cycle that almost makes this one look sane) until impeachment, with ensuing counterprotests. This stuff takes something like the equivalent of a Women's March every other week, and maybe there's a chance it amounts to something. And frankly, I don't know how to make that happen.

Anyway, speaking of taking it to the streets, San Francisco fenced off Alamo Square in the dead of night to stop the unpermitted "Patriot Prayer" press conference there, so now the guy says he's going to stream it from an indoor location and then roam the streets looking to troll people (I do think Joey Gibson alone is basically a pure troll who is best ignored, but he brings a lot of bad people with him as well). So I'm not really sure where I'm going to go at this point, but having them roaming around randomly accosting people is not really an improvement.
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 AM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


I think the South Korean protests aren't very useful to study outside of South Korea. Given the very long tradition (arguably over 1000 years) of protest as a coming of age ritual and about 40% the country's population being concentrated in one city, its causes and results probably aren't reproduceqble anywhere else.
posted by wobumingbai at 10:31 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm not a historian, but it seem the most recent models we have for effective civil protest are

The civil rights movement
The Vietnam war protests
ACT UP

Are those reproducible with our current social institutions?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:37 AM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]


We may have to find out.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


The protests we've seen since Trump's election have not been ineffective, and I think it's unfair to measure effectiveness solely in terms of whether he remains in office. From my perspective, the protests have had multiple strong effects: on public opinion, on resistance-community solidarity, on politicians, on the media narrative, and probably others I am missing.
posted by prefpara at 10:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [67 favorites]


Secondly, though, riots aren't bad. If nothing else, the popular expropriation that occurs during riot conditions absolutely benefit the communities that engage in it

I don't believe this. Is there a source for this claim?

It also appears to me that even if there is some economic benefit or redistributive effect, it is grotesque to say that rioting is therefore good. That is the sort of reasoning that says that smoking actually benefits society because it helps save on healthcare. It ignores the human cost.
posted by dmh at 11:07 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


To treat public protest as if it were an efficient cause that could fix things is bound to lead to disappointment. It's not a lever you pull to fix things. But public protest is absolutely necessary to allow those participating a voice. Whether it changes things or not, it is of existential importance that people be allowed to express their abhorrence of what is going on. I know it is really dispiriting right now, and means of correcting things, such as reform of electoral boundaries, strategic political organisation, institutional pushback, and more, are sorely needed. But don't put down the protests because they don't fix things. They are as necessary as redness and swelling to an inflammation.
posted by stonepharisee at 11:11 AM on August 26, 2017 [20 favorites]


the popular expropriation that occurs during riot conditions absolutely benefit the communities that engage in it

Are you trolling? Whatever it achieves in raising the velocity of money, the social cost is terrible.
posted by Coventry at 11:14 AM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


As much as I too hopped in to talk about protest tactics, I have to hop back in and say that personally, I think there's a lot more to be gained in the current state of America, even now, from joining forces with activists that prioritize election turnout and combating voter suppression over "let's get people in the streets!" Yes, both have value. Yes, if we could manage a general strike in the U.S., or even a D.C. strike, that might also impact things. (More likely I think a D.C. strike would cause Congress to punish D.C. legislatively yet again.) But if you're organizing with people, can I just put a plea out there that you spend real time not just on making cool signs but on swingable districts for 2018? Because that's our reality, sad as it is, and given how horrible the DNC is at messaging, if you live near a swingable district like I do, face to face voter contact is the most important thing you can be doing for next year.

OTOH if you're organizing to do something like protect immigrants in your community from deportation, please carry on. I'm just burnt out on smart people who I share value systems with spending a disproportionate amount of their time thinking about the amazing sign they're going to make to... convince Republican legislators to... something something sign the Paris accord? I get it, I share the outrage, but holy hell do we need every person that can knocking doors, registering, and mobilizing voters right now. That you can do on your day off and have it mean something.
posted by deludingmyself at 11:16 AM on August 26, 2017 [22 favorites]


The protests we've seen since Trump's election have not been ineffective

I think one of the big effects is that everyone who voted for Trump expected that BLM and every ther liberal group would go away and they would settle back into their quiet bubble of white privledge like they initially did with Bush II. But the now seemingly constant protests are disrupting that and keeping them uncomfortable. So they are either forced to listen to the country's problems and become unhappy with Trump or they double down on the cognitive dissonance.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:18 AM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


Also regarding the comment above: I'm 100% calling out myself there too, given that my last Ask was about making the bestest possible protest sign.
posted by deludingmyself at 11:21 AM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think there's a lot more to be gained in the current state of America, even now, from joining forces with activists that prioritize election turnout

Right, even now with all the Republican bullshit involving voter suppression and gerrymandering the Democrats would control at least the House and the Presidency if people could actually be arsed to show up to the polls. I recognize that this can be complicated for people in a bunch of jobs. I also recognize that unless people sacrifice a little we're never going to be able to change things.
posted by Justinian at 11:22 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


I also recognize that unless people sacrifice a little we're never going to be able to change things.

Right, and there are a surprising number of creative ideas people could get in place for midterm elections to help this. Pressure employers about changing and promoting policies to give time off to vote. (Ideally paid time off, but any improvement helps.) Inform people about early voting options. Then inform them again. Then inform them again. Then ask them if they've voted early. (Then ask again.) Figure out ways to provide free drop-in childcare at polling stations in areas with poor single parents and advertise it. All of those things take planning and organizing, but at less than 16 months from midterms and under a year from the 2018 primaries, I'm not seeing any action on that front from organized activist groups. Hell, I'm not even seeing voter registration drives in my area. My best friend made our CO House District the first in the state to start knocking on doors to mobilize Democrats, and she's the mom and full time caregiver of a toddler who didn't know shit about local politics until January. I think we're still the only district with a regularly scheduled canvas day so far, and we're a swing state with governor elections next year. It's ridiculous.
posted by deludingmyself at 11:31 AM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


Right, even now with all the Republican bullshit involving voter suppression and gerrymandering the Democrats would control at least the House and the Presidency if people could actually be arsed to show up to the polls. I recognize that this can be complicated for people in a bunch of jobs. I also recognize that unless people sacrifice a little we're never going to be able to change things.

This. Fucking this. I'm all for protests and marches and taking to the streets, but that means jack, diddly, and squat if there is no voter turnout. And I can understand if going to the polls is a hardship, or voter rolls are purged, but so many times not voting boils down to "meh." There's no hardship, no disenfranchisement, They Just Don't Wanna because of some excuse.

Democrats have a much, much harder time turning out their base, especially in midterms. And that has really damaged them, because state and local races are so important. We need to turn out voters like the Republicans do.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:33 AM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]


And I feel rather helpless about this because I live in a safe blue area where most people do vote (affluent professionals) - and we have the option to vote by mail.

That's another thing that was touched upon upthread - a lot of us who are motivated Democrats live in sheltered blue areas or states that protect us from the worst of the Exploding Cheeto impact. It's another artifact of the Big Sort that has accelerated since the Great Recession. I grumble about Dianne Feinstein being a Blue Dog but that's really small potatoes compared to what people in red states are going through.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:38 AM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


Wanted to briefly chime in here on just how grateful I am that a resource like this exists right now -- today's Patriot Prayer bullshit struck extremely close to home (I live 2 blocks away from Alamo Square) and thanks everyone for the news updates, insights, jokes and commentary. I feel like I owe you all a beer whiskey and/or coffee and should probably start with zachlipton as he seems local.
posted by cybertaur1 at 11:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [16 favorites]


Here in purplish-red Ozarks Springpatch, we've gotten word that the circus is coming to town next Wednesday to make noises about tax reform, and it's already dreadful because the talk of protest demonstrations is bringing out the vocal haters as well and making it more undeniable than usual that there is a heaping gobful of troglodyte scumbags here, a fact I'm usually successful in sublimating as I work in a university bubble. And it is depressing me.
posted by Capybara at 11:46 AM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's fucking television, radio, and social media. And that can be regulated.

Yet, somehow, the way to regulation looks like the tried and true methods of large corporations to get you to buy things would get challenged. And why would those large corps LET the above list get regulated? And, if 'social media' was regulated, what if search engines found people's individual web sites?

But Reagan blew up the fairness doctrine, and thirty years later this is where we are.

The Regan doctrine only allowed the tool use in ways the tools were not able to be used before. Without the tools from WWII that were called propaganda and are now called public relations the 'Regan Doctrine' would have mattered little. And if there was a cake-shaped device that allowed for us to look at an alternative dimension without a 'Regan Doctrine' the use of propaganda would have gotten many if not most of the same messages out of, say, Mr. Limbaugh. And how would a 'no Regan Doctrine' world have been kept once the "broadcasters" were just "brocasters" on their web pages?

In a binary 'which matters more' Regan Doctrine or Propaganda......the Regan Doctrine is nothing.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:07 PM on August 26, 2017


Spitbull: Weekday marches have nothing to do with unemployment rates. And implying it veers painfully close to some bullshit the right here spews.

And no, I wasn't trying to take any high moral ground from my nationality, I'm sorry if it came out that way. I was trying to express the culture shock I felt from seeing your protest culture in action.

And it does work. We ousted a president by doing it. It was bloody and fucking terrible, but it worked. And we got our best 12 years after that. There's a new battle now with Temer's buddy Macri, but we're keeping at it. Just as an example, a few months ago there was an insinuation the supreme court might pardon some of the genocidal fucks that are imprisoned, remaining from the 70's. There were immediate self-organized, countrywide, weekday protests, they were massive. The supreme court backed out immediately; no nazi terrorist attack needed.

I keep hearing it won't work, it never has, that the optics are poor, and an endless list of etceteras. I just can't understand why you wont even try. It doesn't compute. The only group of people i've seen doing it, was during the Ferguson riots. And we know to what extremes people had to be pushed for that to happen. What's being done to you is violent. Sometimes there is no peaceful riposte to that.

Corb makes a good point, and I might be overly pessimistic, but the stability he mentions seems to be fading fast. I fear you are about to slip into something so, so very ugly.

(Mods, if i'm fanning a fire I shouldn't please let me know. I suspect i've stumbled into a cultural divide i didn't know about, and very probably don't understand completely.)

posted by _Synesthesia_ at 12:10 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


but drive an hour in any direction and you're in solid Trump country

Former Seattleite here, still visit twice or three times a year. So I did a spit take and looked this up.

Kitsap, King, Skagit, Snohomish, Island, Jefferson, Pierce, Thurston, and Whatcom counties all voted fairly solidly blue in 2016. Also Clark and Whitman, a bit further afield.

Perhaps you mean "drive three hours?" But those counties contain a significant majority of the state's population and most of Seattle's cops too. Yeah they include rural Trump voters but they're pretty solidly outnumbered.
posted by spitbull at 12:14 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Springfield is also the putative home of bootlicker Sen. Roy Blunt.

Also a few days ago, former Sen Jack Danforth spoke against Trump, yet he's pushing Josh Hawley's run against Sen McCaskill. I don't get it. He was generally a centrist. Leave Claire alone.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Obvs, I'm commissouriating with Capybara.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


I didn't say the Argentina protests were "about" unemployment, I meant, mostly, that it's easier to turn out angry trade unionists for weekday protests when your unemployment rate is approaching 10%.
posted by spitbull at 12:23 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fair enough.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 12:25 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


OTOH, it's been heartening to see what progressives do turn out in Springfield-- the Bernie crowd when he came to speak was impressive, and you get to see who else you know that will get up at 5:30 AM when it's 25 degrees outside to try to make Roy Blunt's visit home optically unpleasant. It's just that the right has been so *quiet* and complacent here since the election-- it's been nice in an odd way. They've been mostly lazy and smug, until now.

Coasties, don't give up on Flyover and abandon us-- a lot of us are TRYING, damn it.
posted by Capybara at 12:26 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]


Driving out of Seattle right now - I'll let you know when I see the first HILLARY FIR JAIL sign.

(That you could after a five minute drive during the election should, possibly, have been a warning that something was up)
posted by Artw at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


The supreme court backed out immediately; no nazi terrorist attack needed.
The idea of a US Supreme Court Justice being influenced by public fervor amuses me. They outlawed protests on the Supreme Court grounds so they wouldn't be inconvenienced by the vox populi while they deliberate.
posted by xyzzy at 12:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


Obviously there are Trump supporters along the I5 corridor. But they are significantly outnumbered. My theory is the most obnoxious Trump signs go up where Trumpies feel outnumbered and a desire to be mean contrarians.
posted by spitbull at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Corb makes a good point, and I might be overly pessimistic, but the stability he mentions seems to be fading fast.

corb is a woman.
posted by holborne at 12:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [21 favorites]


Here's the results of the 2016 presidential election for Washington State, with color coded map (Wikipedia). Hillary won by half a million votes, or a 54/38% ratio.
posted by spitbull at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Springfield is also the putative home of bootlicker Sen. Roy Blunt.

Also a few days ago, former Sen Jack Danforth spoke against Trump, yet he's pushing Josh Hawley's run against Sen McCaskill. I don't get it. He was generally a centrist. Leave Claire alone.
Indeed - Claire is one of the few things that makes me feel good about this state, politically - we have plenty of progressives up here in the KC area, but there's very few of them state-wide. I was really hopeful Jason Kander would defeat Blunt, and if not for the Trump effect he might have ... but now I have to deal with 5 1/2 more years of his (mostly) jackass office staffers and eminently punchable visage.

Missouri loves company, I suppose.
posted by jferg at 12:44 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


Artw: depending on the direction you take, your first one should be in Carnation, Monroe, Duvall, Renton, or, if you're going straight east on the freeway, maybe North Bend or Issaquah. Uncertain if you're heading northwards, or south down 5 instead of 405.

Those counties may appear to be a solid bloc as a result of population density along the lake, but there's a lot of red-voting guys out in the smaller areas of the county. Sure, they're outnumbered, but that doesn't make 'em less virulent somehow.
posted by Archelaus at 12:50 PM on August 26, 2017


It makes them more virulent, somehow. Just back from the Hudson Valley in NY which is similar.
posted by spitbull at 12:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


It will never cease to piss me off that the MO race was so close that if you gave Johnson and Stein voters to Kander, he would have won. I will be happy, however, to let the late Chief Wana Dubie keep his. RIP.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


Wait, I'm a dumbass, I meant whatever wingnut/moonbat 3rd parties.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Corb makes a good point, and I might be overly pessimistic, but the stability he mentions seems to be fading fast. I fear you are about to slip into something so, so very ugly.

That's totally real. I mean, I see that fading with the divide increasing and the civil unrest. I think you're right, that if we don't fix this situation everyone's going to have to get used to a lot more danger and instability, that they don't have the tools to handle at all, and it's going to be very, very bad, because they don't have the cultural understanding of preparedness for these things.

But that doesn't mean that right now, everyone automatically is given that understanding in their bones about what could happen, or the sense of when it's about to tip. And we may also be totally wrong about the American character and what they will do when pushed. I hope I'm wrong, at least.
posted by corb at 1:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


eh, catching up

> It wasn't effective when we marched against the war, it wasn't effective when we marched against police brutality, like - I can not recall one single instance of people going 'whoa, people are protesting peacefully? We'd better change our ways!' It makes people feel good, and it shows people you aren't alone, but it doesn't change anything.

>>Yes, exactly, all of that. The only exception to this rule I can think of is the Women's March


No disrespect to the organizers or attendees of the Women's March, but what policy goals did they effect?

ACT UP worked because we were a constant thorn in the side of politicians and the healthcare industry. Lots of people were desperate, furious, and had nothing left to lose. The vast majority of leftists, angry as they are, are nowhere near that point. Undocumented immigrants are the closest, but who is going to commit civil disobedience when you're sure to be deported? I don't know how many of the antifa fighters are personally at risk of life and limb when they have their masks off, but they are crucial in their willingness to take risks that 99% of permitted-protest attendees would not take.
posted by AFABulous at 1:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [35 favorites]


were trying to warn about through the 1960s and 70s, but they just sounded to most people like hippy-quacks or something

Shhh . . . The NSA is listening through our phones, man! Like, tracking us all over the planet, writing down everyone we know and what we do, you know.

Or, wait was that a conspiracy theo- no, that was . . yeah, no that's a real thing. Yeah. Also JFK, but the important thing is no extraterrestrials. That one is all made up.

And now, these important messages.
posted by petebest at 1:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Protests change nothing directly. Engaging in protests tends to lead to solidarity for further action, though. It's a networking opportunity for the likeminded.
posted by xyzzy at 1:46 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


By your definition, corb, the only people who have "taken to the streets" in recent years would be the spontaneous protests that have arisen after police killings of African Americans in places like Ferguson, Milwaukee, Baltimore, and New York.

I can only speak definitively about Milwaukee, but that riot made an actual, tangible difference by drawing attention and resources to the neighborhood. The city invested in after-school programs, employment training, rehabbing buildings, and other things. Black people in many Milwaukee neighborhoods have nothing to lose. We're the worst state (by far) for Black incarceration and one of the most segregated metro areas in the country. "Wisconsin is the only state in the nation that failed to narrow the life expectancy gap between blacks and whites." (source) When people are actively trying to kill you, getting a permit and having a march makes no sense. I'm surprised there aren't near-constant riots here, given the above statistics, but I suppose people are just beaten down by a Republican-controlled legislature/governor and a neoliberal white mayor.
posted by AFABulous at 1:48 PM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


ACT UP worked because we were a constant thorn in the side of politicians and the healthcare industry. Lots of people were desperate, furious, and had nothing left to lose. The vast majority of leftists, angry as they are, are nowhere near that point. Undocumented immigrants are the closest, but who is going to commit civil disobedience when you're sure to be deported?

AFABulous: I'd say the Trumpcare protests showed some of this, in particular, the folks from ADAPT. It's not happening in huge numbers (yet?) but it's happening.
posted by mcduff at 1:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


> If he'll pardon Arpaio, why wouldn’t Trump pardon those who ignore Robert Mueller?

Marcy Wheeler: The Arpaio Pardon — Don’t Obsess about the Russian Investigation
But a pardon of them — at least some of them — is a very different thing than an Arpaio pardon. That’s because, for some of the crimes in question, in case of a pardon, Robert Mueller could just share the evidence with a state (usually NY) or NYC prosecutor for prosecution. It’s possible that accepting a pardon for Trump or Kushner business related crimes could expose those businesses to lawsuit, and both family’s businesses are pretty heavily in debt now.

Most importantly, a Paul Manafort or Mike Flynn pardon would deprive them of their ability to invoke the Fifth Amendment, meaning they could more easily be forced to testify against Trump, including to Congress. [...]

Pardoning Arpaio was easy. Pardoning Manafort and Flynn and Don Jr and Kushner and everyone else who can implicate the President will not be easy, neither legally nor politically. So don’t confuse the two.

Meanwhile, Trump has just pardoned a man whose quarter century of abuse targeting people of color has made him the poster child of abuse, not just from a moral perspective, but (given the huge fines Maricopa has had to pay) from a governance perspective. [...]

Moreover, white supremacy is something that will remain and must be fought even if Robert Mueller indicts Trump tomorrow. It was a key, if not the key, factor in Trump’s win. We won’t beat the next demagogue following in Trump’s model if we don’t make progress against white supremacy.

You can’t do anything, personally, to help the Robert Mueller investigation. You can do something to fight white supremacy. And if that doesn’t happen, then we’ll face another Trump down the road, just as surely as Sarah Palin paved the way for Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on August 26, 2017 [40 favorites]


AFAbulous: ACT UP worked because we were a constant thorn in the side of politicians and the healthcare industry. Lots of people were desperate, furious, and had nothing left to lose. The vast majority of leftists, angry as they are, are nowhere near that point.

This is a really good point - I think that a lot of well-meaning, cis, straight, white people who are at least middle class, especially in blue states/cities, are not at that point, and won't be for a long time. Even a reactionary police force doesn't impact middle-class white people that much. They are not filling prisons, they are not getting deported, they are not going to be arrested for marijuana, cops generally treat them with courtesy and don't stop their cars for every piddling little thing.

I want to do more to help "flyover country," but I'm really not sure what a blue-state resident can do, especially given that representatives don't want calls from people not their constituents. I'm looking to see if there is going to be a get out the vote effort for red counties in CA.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:59 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]


Man, I'll never forget the Act Up protestors I got arrested with in 95 (Hey Giuliani you fucker). Unlike my crew, a group of quickly terrified privileged law students, the Act Up folks were both realistic and fearless. I remember especially one activist's depiction of how her kitten would act if said activist was in jail for a few days. She was hilarious, and I wasn't really paying attention to the text of what she was saying, so when it actually turned out to be a few days in the Tombs I was like 'how the fuck was she so cheerful?'
posted by angrycat at 2:02 PM on August 26, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's just that the right has been so *quiet* and complacent here since the election-- it's been nice in an odd way. They've been mostly lazy and smug, until now.
Coasties, don't give up on Flyover and abandon us-- a lot of us are TRYING, damn it.
posted by Capybara


My cousin said to me , " I live outside of a large predominantly alt left community, the conservative non violent people who live here* tend to keep a very low profile for their own safety." So, it's not smugness, it's that they, with their anti-government fantasies and guns are SCARED to speak out. (do I need to put the sarcasm tag here?)

*George Soros must be subsidizing the "alt left" in her town because the average home price is over $1.5 million there.
posted by vespabelle at 2:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


AFABulous: I'd say the Trumpcare protests showed some of this, in particular, the folks from ADAPT. It's not happening in huge numbers (yet?) but it's happening.

This is precisely my point. Those were not permitted protests. Many folks from ADAPT were arrested, and it was a very effective (and brave) tactic to force police to drag people from their wheelchairs. Looks pretty bad on the evening news.
posted by AFABulous at 2:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [17 favorites]


When the topic does manage to come up in conversation with non-political friends, they often ask, infuriatingly, "what has Trump actually done?"

whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday appears to be quite the magazine of discussion points for just such occasions. It just needs a "randomizer" function for those hours in-between Trump disasters.
posted by petebest at 2:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Unlike my crew, a group of quickly terrified privileged law students, the Act Up folks were both realistic and fearless.

One of my regrets in life is being too afraid to get arrested in Washington DC in front of the FDA. We were in the street doing a die-in and they'd sent for the mounted police. They gave us a warning to get off the street or be arrested and, seeing the horse 10 feet away, I complied. I was also 18, one thousand miles from home and was pretty sure my parents would not send bail money. Yet I still feel shame 25 years later because people I personally knew, who were literally dying, got dragged off to jail. (They survived that, but died within a couple of years.)
posted by AFABulous at 2:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


"columbus co"[p wheelchair] autocompletes now, fwiw. July 11 article on whether the cop who pushed someone out of their wheelchair on video actually pushed someone out of their wheelchair in other videos of the incident. No recent follow-ups so, it's a confounding mystery!
posted by petebest at 2:23 PM on August 26, 2017


America, on the other hand, has been relatively stable for 250 years. There was an attempt at a revolution - the Civil War. It failed. It was put down quite well. Nobody has ever tried to repeat it. The historical memory is of relative stability - yes, poverty, and yes, police brutality, and yes, a host of other terrible things, but no one is afraid the secret police will come for you in the night.

I am not actually sure this is true. Maybe we can quibble about whether the police are a) secret or b) come literally in the middle of the night. But it is quite clear that the police DO, in fact, come for many people. They're all immigrants. And people are indeed afraid. Very afraid.
posted by chrominance at 2:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [23 favorites]


And everyone else should feel a little fear too, there was a poem and everything.
posted by Artw at 3:13 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


I am not actually sure this is true. Maybe we can quibble about whether the police are a) secret or b) come literally in the middle of the night. But it is quite clear that the police DO, in fact, come for many people. They're all immigrants. And people are indeed afraid. Very afraid.

Let me clarify the unspoken behind my statement.

Before my family moved to America, one of my great-uncles was disappeared because he committed the incredible sin of asking - just asking - Somoza's fuckers to pay a woman for the meal that they demanded from her and the damage they did her establishment. Because our family was 'important', we eventually received the favor of having his body back for burial. I don't know what condition it was in, but by the way my family members tighten their lips when they talk about that part, I understand it was pretty bad.

Police brutality in America is terrible, and the INS is a brutal gang of thugs that people are right to fear. But this is, fundamentally, a stable country. A country with deep problems - but a country that has known a peace for the majority of its existence that many other countries could only dream of.
posted by corb at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [76 favorites]


Or to put it another way, I don't think anything of dropping by the courthouse with my three kids in tow to pick up a copy of a birth certificate. It's not even a little bit unsafe (for a citizen, I think we all agree it's a shitty and terrifying time to be an immigrant). Nothing is going to happen to me at the courthouse but filling out a form and getting a piece of paper. I'm not going to be disappeared or arrested or beaten because I made the error of voluntarily interacting with the government. It's so safe, and so mundane, that I can take my kids on the errand.

There are places in the world where voluntary interaction with even the very boring parts of government can be dangerous. And there are plenty of places where you'd be expected to at the very least pay a bribe, or be threatened with false arrest if you didn't pay a bribe. I expect to go fill out a paper, pay my $19.50 as required by local law, and walk out with a birth certificate ten minutes later. I even expect the government employees to be polite and relatively efficient, and if there are any problems, to be apologetic and helpful in walking me through my next steps.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:47 PM on August 26, 2017 [47 favorites]


The Post reports that Trump first tried to get Sessions to drop the case against Arpaio entirely:
As Joseph Arpaio’s federal case headed toward trial this past spring, President Trump wanted to act to help the former Arizona county sheriff who had become a campaign-trail companion and a partner in their crusade against illegal immigration.

The president asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions whether it would be possible for the government to drop the criminal case against Arpaio, but was advised that would be inappropriate, according to three people with knowledge of the conversation.

After talking with Sessions, Trump decided to let the case go to trial, and if Arpaio was convicted, he could grant clemency.

So the president waited, all the while planning to issue a pardon if Arpaio was found in contempt of court for defying a federal judge’s order to stop detaining people merely because he suspected them of being undocumented immigrants. Trump was, in the words of one associate, “gung-ho about it.”
Having the President request the Justice Department drop a criminal case is so phenomenally inappropriate...
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [69 favorites]


Hopefully that fact will enter into both any legal challenges to the pardon, and to Trump's obstruction of justice charge (not related to Russia, but clearly obstruction of justice by trying to squelch the prosecution of a political ally.

Meanwhile, Maryland police arrested Richard Wilson Preston, 52, for firing a gun at or near counter-demonstrators in Charlottesville after yelling the n-word. That's great but doesn't explain why police made no move to arrest him when he shot a gun right in front of them. The video is in that link and on the NYT, WaPo, etc.
posted by msalt at 4:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [31 favorites]


Abby Phillip/WaPo: Trump gives new meaning to the Friday night news dump, enraging his critics
“[The perceived news dump] was very risky, because if [Hurricane Harvey] is as bad as the experts were predicting, then he’s opening himself up to a lot of potential criticism,” said Alex Conant, a Republican strategist and former aide to Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.). “But very little that Trump does surprises me any longer. He’s proven to be very unpredictable and to not act within the norms of other politicians.”

Like most aspects of Trump’s presidency, the perceived news dump enraged his detractors and buoyed his most ardent supporters, while leaving open the question of how it will be received by voters who don’t fit neatly into either camp.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:19 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


That NYT video shows an attempted murder: it failed both due to the malfunctioning (or failure to rack, it's not clear to me) of the first shot and due to the second shot happening to not hit anyone. Even if the fired shot was into the bushes (also not clear), it could easily have been lethal in that crowded and chaotic an environment and would certainly in that case have been prosecuted as murder. It's a snapshot of stochastic terrorism in random, bubbling action. Just imagine how many more incidents like this have been averted by dumb luck (or dumb stupidity on the part of the actor).
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [33 favorites]


Trump Cabinet member's daughter rips transgender ban
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke's daughter Jennifer Detlefsen, who is a Navy veteran, sharply criticized the proposal, calling the president a "disgrace," the Billings Gazette reported Friday.

“This man is a disgrace. I've tried to keep politics out of my social media feed as much as possible, but this is inexcusable,” read her post on July 26, which still appeared online on Saturday.

"This veteran says sit down and shut the f--k up, you know-nothing, never-served piece of s--t," she added


Emphasis mine.
posted by PenDevil at 4:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [138 favorites]


Also, if you want your mind to go to a real dark place: if the spray-can flamethrower antifascist hero (love ya) were to have had a little worse luck that day, how would the story have played out instead of the one we got? It would be just as tragic to decent people as what happened later in the day in our timeline. But. Imagine how different the news coverage would have been and what kind of rhetoric we'd be seeing from the other side: that photo of spraycan-man is, after all, being circulated among racist fuckheads as the most threatening thing imaginable, because a black guy with no shirt and a lit spraycan is scarier than dozens of paramilitary in body armor and AKs. Grim days. Grim civilization.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


Note that in Florida the same prosecutor who initially didn't want to press charges against Julius Zimmerman for his murder of Treyvon Martin, and who when forced to press charges essentially threw the case, actively and maliciously sought the maximum possible penalty for Marissa Alexander when she fired a warning shot at her physically abusive husband. Her husband even testified in court that not only had he beaten her in the past, but that if she hadn't driven him off that day he'd have beaten her then. The prosecution sought 20 years for that single warning shot.

Meanwhile the Nazi in Charlottesville attempts murder and fails only due to the wildest of chances and I'll flat out guarantee you that no prosecutor will be trying to put Richard Wilson in prison for 20 years. He's white, and male, and right wing. That all adds up to the entire court system loving him and seeking to minimize his problems. Notice that they aren't even bringing charges related to his attempt to shoot a protester, nope it's just discharge of a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.

If anyone ever wonders why people on the left so distrust the police and courts, there's why in a nutshell. They are on the side of the Nazis and they don't even try to hide it.
posted by sotonohito at 4:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [72 favorites]


Hell, if a BLM protester had simply pulled a gun on a counterprotester, much less fired it at anyone, they'd be dead. No arrest or trial, just execution on the spot by any cop around.
posted by sotonohito at 4:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [41 favorites]


What.

Mattis to US troops: 'Hold the line until our country gets back to respecting each other'
“Our country right now, it’s got problems we don’t have in the military,” Mattis said. “You just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it.”
Mattis said the U.S. has “two powers” - “inspiration” and “intimidation.”

“We’ve got the power of intimidation, and that’s you, if someone wants to screw with our families, our country and our allies,” Mattis said. “The power of inspiration - [and] we’ll get the power of inspiration back.”

posted by Joe in Australia at 4:47 PM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


Arrest in Deandre Harris attack.
posted by Botanizer at 4:49 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


from the arrest. link...
Anyone with information relevant to the events of Aug. 12 can email the Charlottesville Police Department at cvillerally@charlottesville.org.
i'm tempted to report the well-known actual cop standing right there doing nothing. i dunno...maybe a few hundred of us could send a note?
posted by j_curiouser at 5:02 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


I hope the fuckers all roll on each other, as they are likely to do if the slightest of pressure is applied. I am not holding my breath that it will be though.
posted by Artw at 5:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon

Whoa whoa whoa, Ryan, you're pushing back on Trump without all your buddies condemning him first? Watch out, someone might accuse you of developing a conscience.
posted by Anonymous at 5:21 PM on August 26, 2017


What.

Mattis to US troops: 'Hold the line until our country gets back to respecting each other'


Linked above. Go watch the video (FB), this is good stuff.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Before my family moved to America, one of my great-uncles was disappeared because he committed the incredible sin of asking

It's stunning to me that there are fascist edgelords and internet warriors in the USA that think unrestrained tyranny is going to be just fine for them. I mean I understand a lot of them have only seen war on tv, where it's like at most 40 minutes of frowning and shooting, amidst some other lighter scenes. They just seem to totally lack imagination, historical knowledge, or any knowledge outside of easy street and easy mode about what repression is really like. Their heads seem terrifyingly empty.

I know I'm jumping countries from Nicaragua to the Dominican Republic, but if you know a fascist leaning asshole who reads reddit and an occasional book, maybe give them a copy of The Brief Wonderous Life of Oscar Wao (by Junot Diaz) which can provide them a with nerd-friendly portal into a close-up of how cuddly your average dictator can be. (not at all) (Hoping we can still change the world with art. I know I'm not going to do it with my own raw courage, which is lacking.) I don't understand authoritarians.
posted by puddledork at 5:26 PM on August 26, 2017 [17 favorites]


I have seen people disapprove most strongly of the way crackers were placed in a bowel than Ryan's response (er, his spokesman's response, he can't even be bothered to do it himself) to Arpaio's pardon.

I feel like I owe you all a beer whiskey and/or coffee and should probably start with zachlipton as he seems local.

Well thanks! We should probably do a Bay Area politics thread meetup, or just another SF meetup in general.
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


Yes. Bay Area threaders meeting sounds good. Please keep us posted.
posted by njohnson23 at 5:28 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have seen people disapprove most strongly of the way crackers were placed in a bowel

I mean take it from me: there's a wrong way to place crackers in one's bowel.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:29 PM on August 26, 2017 [41 favorites]


I should point out that this question of why America shuns radical revolution has come up before -- and led to the coinage of the term American exceptionalism [which doesn't mean what Sarah Palin thinks it does].
[Following the Russian revolution] A world revolution -- indeed, the rise of the proletariat -- seemed possible, and the Communist International was stoked.

But the Americans just wouldn't fall into line. The United States had long since passed the United Kingdom as the world's largest industrial power, but hadn't yet plunged into the Great Depression. To members of the U.S. Communist Party, it was a paradox. Why, in the what appeared to be the purest capitalist Western economy wasn't there any desire for egalitarianism? Had Marx been wrong when he wrote socialism would, inexorably and universally, emerge from the ruins of capitalism?

America's radical left considered the national condition, contrasted it with Europe, and concluded leftism would be a hard sell stateside thanks to characteristics forged along the frontier. Americans were different: individualistic, profit-crazed, broadly middle class, and as tolerant of inequality as they were reverent of economic freedom. The nation had "unlimited reserves of American imperialism," lamented Communist propaganda at the time.

In 1929, Communist leader Jay Lovestone informed Stalin in Moscow that the American proletariat wasn't interested in revolution. Stalin responded by demanding that he end this "heresy of American exceptionalism." And just like that, this expression was born.
In essence Stalin was calling out the CPUSA for giving the Comintern a lame excuse -- that America was somehow an exception to Marxist theory, which universally supposed that the conditions of capitalism would inevitably lead to the revolution of the proletariat. (Stalin was probably picking up on, or reworded through intermediaries who were familiar with it, a development of the term among the CPUSA itself, and it is also true that the term had some prior usage in the US that is actually more in line with the modern one.)

I don't know that the dialectical arguments are really germane or not, but it is certainly true that the question of why Americans don't rise up against fascism and/or capitalism itself is not a brand new one.

As to riots having any salutory effects, well, they accelerated the rate of jobs moving to the suburbs, and there are blocks in Chicago that still haven't been rebuilt. They may ultimately accelerate devolution of political power, but the economic case is difficult to make.
posted by dhartung at 5:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


In Charlottesville, my “nonviolent” stance was met with heavily armed men. They came with bats, clubs, plywood shields painted with swastikas, brass knuckles, tear gas canisters, and wooden sticks. Not to mention the guns. The heavily armed militia were everywhere. They liked that they made you feel nervous. It was fun for them.

They came to hurt people, and they did.

Let me take a moment to be clear – I do not advocate for violence. I trust, however pig-headedly, that all of creation – including all people – is both capable and worthy of salvation. That there is no such thing as a lost cause with God. I cannot explain this trust; it is a part of me deeper than rational faculty. To commit violence against another human being is to commit violence against the image of God in them. To me, it is a sin. I do not believe God requires us to sin. But it seems apparent to me that the world sometimes does.

I never felt safer than when I was near antifa.

posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:35 PM on August 26, 2017 [50 favorites]


we can't possibly have sunk so low, morally, that a secretary of defense telling a bunch of soldiers how much better soldiers are than other people and how much better the military is than the rest of society passes for "good" in any sense just because it can be interpreted as having an anti-Trump subtext

we have, clearly, but we really can't

(I am aware that this is the way all fancy generals talk about and to themselves and their subordinates in all official speeches. it doesn't get any less distasteful with the repetition.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


Speaking of taking to the streets and nonviolent resistance in the nation's capitol, it looks like the March to Confront White Supremacy is starting in Charlottesville this coming week and hitting D.C. on the 6th, with preliminary plans to stay and engage in ongoing organized civil disobedience once they arrive.
posted by deludingmyself at 5:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]




just because it can be interpreted as having an anti-Trump subtext

Yep. I can't find it now (watch it be in a comment above), but someone probably on Twitter was lamenting how happy everybody was last week when the military was bringing order to the White House. The nation's history has a sad.
posted by rhizome at 5:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


I read it differently, queenofbithymia, especially in light of the service heads' statements about bigotry. They're all saying "Not in OUR service." I heard the implication that the military has made conscious efforts at requiring everyone, no matter their personal history, to work together and not give cause for complaint, and NOT to tolerate the more open racism that was present in the military 20 years ago. I heard him saying "We are not going back, no matter what you're seeing from the White House." It's not a matter of being better than civilians, it's a reminder about standards, addressed to all service members.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


I mean take it from me: there's a wrong way to place crackers in one's bowel.

pfft, conformist
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Or it's the preface to a coup. Hard to say these days.
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


Are we talking crunchy edible crackers or the exploding kind?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Gunpowder is for drinking.
posted by Artw at 6:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm gonna go back and read the rest of this thread here in a minute, but I wish I could favorite this comment from deludingmyself about a million times.

Direct voter contact is essential. Every phone conversation you have increases the likelihood that someone will vote by 3-5%. Every face to face interaction? 8-10%. If you get them to fill out one of those Commit to Vote cards your organizer gives you? That's another 8-10%. We've got a lot of winnable districts right here in Virginia this year, and the Coordinated Campaign is fighting in all of them. Doing this work reaches a lot more voters than even the biggest and most well organized march does. Direct action is good and important, and you'll never hear me knocking it. But campaign work, for my money, is where the rubber meets the road.

And my friends, I can't tell you how often I hear, "oh, I'm helping in other ways! I post on Facebook all the time! I talk to my friends all about this!" Yeah. Unless you're out knocking doors and making phone calls, I'm sorry, but you're not helping. You're making yourself feel better, is what you're doing. By all means, take back the streets. That's important. But for god's sake help us take back the ballot box.

This is all just me, to be clear. None of this is An Offical Campaign Stance or whatever-- I'm still just a volunteer, even if I have Aspirations.
posted by dogheart at 6:29 PM on August 26, 2017 [29 favorites]




Dogheart, can you post sources for any of that if you have them at hand and have the time? The entirety of Colorado District 6 (swingable in 2018, so very winnable) in my county would benefit from that - it's us newbies pushing voter contact, unfortunately.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:37 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Record label. Record label. White supremacist... record label. JFC.
posted by deludingmyself at 6:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [23 favorites]


Man, that nonviolence post about antifa linked above is powerful.
My safety (and safety is relative in these situations) was dependent upon their willingness to commit violence. In effect, I outsourced the sin of my violence to them. I asked them to get their hands dirty so I could keep mine clean. Do you understand? They took that up for me, for the clergy they shielded, for those of us in danger. We cannot claim to be pacifists or nonviolent when our safety requires another to commit violence, and we ask for that safety.
posted by corb at 6:42 PM on August 26, 2017 [66 favorites]


I'll ask my organizer when I see him tomorrow, but those are the metrics that have been drilled into my head from day one.
posted by dogheart at 6:44 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mattis to US troops: 'Hold the line until our country gets back to respecting each other'

What I really liked was his emphasis on the importance of taking care of each other. While I don't trust that Mattis meant this message for a broader audience than the military, it's a concept that his boss seems tragically unable or unwilling to grok.

I know, I know, this isn't news.
posted by Lyme Drop at 6:44 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Isn't this the second outing of a white supremict record label owner we've seen since Unite the Righf? So I guess there's a bunch of them.
posted by Artw at 6:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Record label. Record label. White supremacist... record label. JFC.

"Christian White of the Aryan Reggae Band, Sony Mao to his generation, and final champion of race rocks. I'm a whiz at trivia." - Johnny Mnemonic, William Gibson, May 1981.
posted by porpoise at 6:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


So, um, I wandered off to do other things, glanced at my phone to see what the thread was up to, saw you were all saying weird stuff about cracker and bowels, thought "well there's that wacky MeFi politics thread again, always onto strange topics," and only now do I realize that one is actually my fault. Whoops.
posted by zachlipton at 7:00 PM on August 26, 2017 [23 favorites]


Direct voter contact is essential.

Respectfully, kindly, and smilingly, I disagree. Please. Stop calling me. And knocking on my door. And emailing me. And junk mailing me. And calling again. Please.

I don't want to - I don't *need* to discuss voting! I don't - I'm voting! I'm voting already! I Like who you like, I - yes, yes, quit . . . Please withdraw the armies, the hordes of earnest, underpaid, undersupported yearning to break into my attention YET AGAIN. Ohmygod seriously I'm gonna vote straight racist if you don't stop (I'm not, but really. Seriously. Stop.)

Now REGISTERING people, driving to the polls - YES! These are the things winning Democratic parties should do, absolutely. "How to vote" ads and "You can't be arrested for voting. Call 1-800-legal-watchdogs, we'll help" yes, absolu-

*doorbell rings*
/facepalm
posted by petebest at 7:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [29 favorites]




Record label. Record label. White supremacist... record label. JFC.

Oh yeah that's totally a thing. I got an inquiry about doing some design work for this little bedroom metal record label once (surprise networking connection from an AOL chat Star Wars RPG years prior, would have been a cool incredibly dorky story if it worked out), but when I looked into the bands and their lyrics I had to nope out of there. Lot of teutonic bullshit in some of the metal scenes.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:26 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


Weird, I thought the master race was busy composing symphonies.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:31 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]


Respectfully, kindly, and smilingly, I disagree. Please. Stop calling me. And knocking on my door. And emailing me. And junk mailing me. And calling again. Please.

With all respect--

No.

I won't ever stop. Because I like to win elections.
posted by dogheart at 7:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [12 favorites]


Now that I have time and am at a computer, here are some quotes from the interesting New Yorker article by Nathan Heller that I posted upthread. I thought it was relevant to the discussion of the value of different political tactics, and it discusses several interesting-sounding books.
In “Inventing the Future: Postcapitalism and a World Without Work” (Verso), a book published in 2015, then updated and reissued this past year for reasons likely to be clear to anyone who has opened a newspaper, Nick Srnicek and Alex Williams question the power of marches, protests, and other acts of what they call “folk politics.” These methods, they say, are more habit than solution. Protest is too fleeting. It ignores the structural nature of problems in a modern world. “The folk-political injunction is to reduce complexity down to a human scale,” they write....“This is politics transmitted into pastime—politics-as-drug-experience, perhaps—rather than anything capable of transforming society,” Srnicek and Williams write. “If we look at the protests today as an exercise in public awareness, they appear to have had mixed success at best. Their messages are mangled by an unsympathetic media smitten by images of property destruction—assuming that the media even acknowledges a form of contention that has become increasingly repetitive and boring.”...

An odd and revealing feature of American culture over the past half century is that its protest trends and its workplace ideals mirror each other. Just as businesses have sought to escape the old corporate strictures by encouraging flexible and off-site work and by flattening hierarchies (sometimes even eliminating managers), protesters have tried to move past the groaning actions of the past by coördinating instantly across distance and embracing leaderless or “horizontal” movements.....According to the classical model of protest, strategy (the big idea, the master plan) falls to a movement’s leaders, while tactics (the moves you make, the signs you wave, the action in the street) fall to the people on the ground. One of Hardt and Negri’s cornerstone ideas is that the formula should be flipped: strategy goes to the movement masses, tactics to the leadership. In theory, this allows movements to stay both nimble (an emergency on the ground is when you call in the brass) and on guard against autocracy (no group can decide for the many). “People do not need to be given the party line to inform and guide their practice,” they write. “They have the potential to recognize their oppression and know what they want.”...

Why did civil-rights protest work where recent activism struggles? The question looms behind Zeynep Tufekci’s “Twitter and Tear Gas: The Power and Fragility of Networked Protest” (Yale). Tufekci is, by training, a sociologist, and her research centers on the place where protest and digital media meet....“Modern networked movements can scale up quickly and take care of all sorts of logistical tasks without building any substantial organization cavity before the first protest or march,” she writes. “However, with this speed comes weakness.”...The missing ingredients, Tufekci believes, are the structures and communication patterns that appear when a fixed group works together over time. That practice puts the oil in the well-oiled machine. It is what contemporary adhocracy appears to lack, and what projects such as the postwar civil-rights movement had in abundance. And it is why, she thinks, despite their limits in communication, these earlier protests often achieved more....

In a new book, “The Once and Future Liberal” (Harper), Mark Lilla urges a turn back toward governmental process. “The role of social movements in American history, while important, has been seriously inflated by left-leaning activists and historians,” he writes. “The age of movement politics is over, at least for now. We need no more marchers. We need more mayors.” Folk politics, tracing a fifty-year anti-establishmentarian trend, flatters a certain idea of heroism: the system, we think, must be fought by authentic people. Yet that outlook is so widely held now that it occupies the highest offices of government. Maybe, in the end, the system is the powerless person’s best bet.
posted by medusa at 7:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


Well, as far as wasting your time is concerned, calling and nagging me to vote is certainly a waste because I haven't missed voting in an election since 1984 (and that was because I was informed my mother had died before I could go to the polling place... I started voting by mail after that). The best NON-time-wasting effort is offering to HELP a identified non-voter to register (and making sure their registration is bullet-proof unchallenge-able), acquire the ballot materials and either help get it mailed in or get them physically to the poll when it's open. THAT's the way to turn an election, especially a "small" local one.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:46 PM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


To be fair... my experience with the Democratic Party in 2016 is that I got called ONCE to ask if I would be voting in November. Now, the amount of phone calls that I got (and still continue to get) asking for money is a completely different kettle of fish. But I've only ever been contacted once by the Democratic Party about voting and that was to remind me that early voting is a great option. I confirmed that I planned on early voting, but needed to figure out judges first. I didn't hear back again on voting.

I live in a swing district in a swing state. I also once got visited by a candidate for mayor during a primary where he told me that I was the only person in my building who voted in every election and therefore he wanted to say hi.

I'm admittedly extrapolating here from my experience here, but my guess is that the Democratic Party is mostly checking in with people who are intermittent voters. If you are the type who comes out for off-season bond issues (which that's me), they don't bug you much about voting.

They simply spend all their time asking you for money.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 7:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]


I won't ever stop. Because I like to win elections.

Then may I propose that once you know oneswellfoop and I have your vote, that you stop continuing to contact us because at that point you are literally preaching to the converted.

If you want to win elections you need to reach the people you don't know are already voting your way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


(that should say "once you know that you have my and oneswellfoop's vote", you know what I meant)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 PM on August 26, 2017


petebest, and dogheart, you can both be right, because at least where I am, the Democratic Party keeps track of who votes in every election, even primaries. I am currently fighting a highly local battle to convince people to stop knocking on petebest's door (assuming that he is in fact marked in the nationwide voter info system as a highly active voter who registers Dem and participates in all elections, including primaries), and start knocking on doors of people who are not like, well, me and petebest. It is mind-boggling to me that I have gotten any pushback on this subject, but there we are. The only reasonable rationale I can find for it is, well, drumming up more volunteers to knock on more doors. Which does seem to be a decent side-benefit, but at a certain point one has to move on.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]


Which gets back to my point: I've spent the past 6 months in the trenches of local Democratic volunteer efforts and holy hell do we need people who are not idiots spending time organizing people to knock on [the right] doors and call the right phone numbers. If where I am is any indication, any MeFite could bring the competence level of their local Democratic outreach organization up tenfold in like, 20 hours a month. It. Is. Ridiculous.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [12 favorites]


In any reasonably well-organized local party you should be able to call the county headquarters and tell them your contact preferences. I don't get calls. I get fundraising e-mails, and I get door-knockers, but they know not to call me. Also if you early vote they should be able to mark you off their list and not keep calling or visiting. (Just say, "Yeah, I already voted" and you can tell them for whom if you want; part of the door-knocking and calling is that hassling people to vote increases turnout so they're going to do it.). The junk mail is bulk mailed, you will get it no matter what (it's a lot more hassle and expense to target individually), and it matters for name recognition especially in smaller local races. If you want the local Dems to build a bench, there's going to be junk mail and door knockers.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


Deludingmyself -- thanks for sharing your experience. I'm not surprised that this is regionally weird, but if it helps... Florida seems to be operating on this model of not contacting consistent voters. Or at least Miami is.

I wonder if the Democratic Party ever talks internally between geographical areas about what strategies actually work.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 8:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]


I wonder if this thing about Trump pestering the DOJ about Arpaio had anything to do with the rumors that he and JeffySesh were on the outs.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2017


I won't ever stop. Because I like to win elections.

If we actually won elections, the nagging would be tolerable.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:11 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yeah, the challenge is that it's almost entirely volunteer run and very decentralized. I only see my little glimpse, but as far as I can tell no one's having those conversations because very few people are on the payroll to do so. Also, even if the DNC did pay someone to analyze that, there's no one to show up here in my local house district and say hey, as an organization we want to do Thing X and not Thing Y. The tools for doing good, effective grassroots organizing as a volunteer are there if you spend enough hours having highly local conversations, usually in person, usually optimized for retirees' schedules. You can get access to that voter info system, there's a smartphone app, you can set up campaigns for other volunteers in your area, and at least here, the state party is paying someone to train people at county HQ to do voter registration in a legally compliant fashion. But the level of inertia is high, and the level of strategic and technical competence is low (outside of campaigns, which are separate organizations), and no one makes it easy to figure out that you can do any of this stuff, much less how to do it.

Anyway, I feel like I've taken up enough air on this subject and I'm supposed to be studying for the next four days straight, so I'll just say that I'm happy to respond to MeMails if anyone's trying to figure out how to navigate getting more engaged with the frustrating, important business of local Democratic voter outreach and organizing. I can't swear my experiences here will map 1:1 to where you are, but I'll try. Also feel free to tell people at your door to contact people who don't vote in every election instead of you. It feels like screaming into the void some days (Me lately: "Why aren't we knocking doors in [poor neighborhood in the district where many people speak Spanish that had below-average turnout last year]?" Volunteer who's been doing this for decades: "Eh, we never have much luck there. Hey, do you have ideas for what exciting goodies we should auction off at the county fundraiser? It's gonna be so much fun!" Me: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!! What is wrong with you people?"], but maybe they'll consider it.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh hey the Brooklyn DA link I had above is busted! I'm supporting this openly gay, openly progressive guy: Marc Fliedner

If you're at the ballot box on the 12th NYCers, think of it.
posted by The Whelk at 8:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wonder if the Democratic Party ever talks internally between geographical areas about what strategies actually work.

The Democratic Party doesn't even talk internally between campaigns in the same geographical area about what strategies actually work. When you get contacted six times in the same election? That's the Presidential campaign, the Senate campaign, the House campaign, the State Senate campaign, the State House campaign, and the Coordinated Campaign each calling you.
posted by Etrigan at 8:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]


I am part of this local group called the Michigan Resistance that is affiliated with the Democratic party but independent of it. Early on, the organizers asked and received access to the Democrats' VAN list (not sure if that's quite the right term) - the names of likely Democratic voters, their contact info, and - supposedly - every time they'd been contacted by someone in the Democratic party.

The cool idea that Michigan Resistance had was to essentially combine voter contact/info management with the phone-calling activism that was spurred by the Indivisible groups. So, every week, people get together and have a phone banking party where they first call Michigan reps about some issue that's happening that week...and then they get a list of Democratic voters in the red part of the state, and they start calling those people, asking *them* to contact representatives.

Now, because the VAN is such neglected garbage, especially in places without much of an active Democratic party presence, you might go through five pages of voters without ever talking to someone - it's all disconnected numbers and people who have moved or landlines that no one answers. But one thing the volunteers do is note that info down, so that all the disconnected numbers will be cleaned up when we hit 2018 and 2020 and need to move through the list relatively quickly and turn out the vote. But also, when you do reach a voter, they are almost always so excited to hear from someone even loosely affiliated with the Democratic party, who, instead of asking them for money, is offering them some kind of concrete work to do.

That's when you can totally hear the 10% bump that any kind of voter contact inspires - when it's friendly, pragmatic, encouraging, and rare. And it *is* rare - I recently entered about 50 pages of data, and if the VAN is what we'd been told it is, none of these voters in the swing state of Michigan had been contacted even once - either in person or on the phone - in years.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 8:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [94 favorites]


pretentious illiterate, you are doing the lord's own work. from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
posted by dogheart at 8:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]


For what it's worth, I was canvassing last weekend in a swing district in Virginia, and the people we were told to contact were frequent voters of any party. The information we were given didn't even include party identification. (This canvassing was on behalf of a prospective Democratic state delegate who decided to run in January after one of those disastrous town halls).

Out of the people I talked to, there were a couple people who were clearly Repub, a couple people who flat out ID'ed themselves as straight-ticket Dems, and the rest were pretty hard to read. Although I only actually talked to a handful of people anyway (not many were home) -- which the campaign manager said was normal. That wasn't a problem; I was mostly canvassing just to help the candidate get name recognition and give out her lit. But in any case, there was one guy on the route who responded really positively, and I think it's possible that contacting him might genuinely turn him from someone who forgets to vote in the state/local races or who doesn't really have strong feelings about any candidate into a pretty solid vote for our candidate.

I do think that the voter contact gets to be overkill and counterproductive at times, though. I was doing phone banking for Swing Left for that Montana special election a few months ago, and the people who bothered to pick up at all were all complaining that they'd received too many calls (3+) just that night. The phone banking site also kept kicking us off, presumably because we had gone through the whole list of numbers. It was a disaster, and we ended the "party" after only an hour or two because there just didn't seem to be anybody left to call.

Here in VA, my parents, who vote EVERY time and are true blue Dem to the bone, get positively inundated, too, all year every year, and it really is alienating. On the other hand, I've only received one call, once -- for the primary for the state races this past June -- and I actually did need the reminder. So that was helpful. And I'm an every-time-and-always-Dem voter, too.

Personally, I think canvassing to give name recognition for local/state candidates and to get people to register to vote has the most efficacy (and is the most satisfying, for the canvasser!). But that's just anecdotal based on the canvassing that I personally have done.
posted by rue72 at 8:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm gonna shut up now, because I don't want to suck the air out of the room, but there's a lot I don't want to talk about, in terms of strategy vs. chaos, and tactics, and because I really really really really don't want to get doxxed, but there isn't a concern expressed here that isn't invalid.
posted by dogheart at 8:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm already facepalming over my 2018 congressional race, which pits Katko against a woman with zero political experience. If no one else steps in, we're done. AGAIN. In a district where Clinton led Trump by 4 points. But we get nothing but weaksauce Dems and our state legislative rep just runs unopposed all the time. (He's a malpractice lawyer who constantly pushes malpractice legislation in the assembly and voted against equal marriage. He's a prick and I hate him and NO ONE RUNS AGAINST HIM.)

My district is winnable. And the Dems are doing nothing about that, apparently. Instead our progressive, popular mayor is getting woo'ed to primary Cuomo rather than run against Katko.
posted by xyzzy at 8:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not for nothing, but if a couple of you were to not use ridiculous double negatives, I wouldn't be unhappy.
posted by orange ball at 8:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]


Everything is still a tire fire, but tonight I got to meet National Treasure Alexandra Petri, and I wanted y'all to know what.

(I didn't realize she was THAT National Treasure Alexandra Petri until after she left, which is probably for the best.)
posted by nonasuch at 9:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [47 favorites]


ugh! valid/invalid, y'all know what I mean, I think. Keep speaking up. There's a reason I don't post a whole lot.
posted by dogheart at 10:17 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dogheart, let he who has not posted a confusing typo cast the first stone.

I'll wait.
posted by greermahoney at 10:23 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]


Time for a song! Here's the Parody Project with Confounds the Science, which begins "Hello darkness my old friend, it's time for him to tweet again".
posted by valetta at 10:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ooh, I'm so jealous, nonasuch. Mrs. W. just rolls her eyes about my Petri crush.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dogheart, let he who has not posted a confusing typo cast the first stone.

*csast sotne*
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [18 favorites]


Lisa Marie Pane, AP: NRA'S VIDEO MESSAGE TO 'ELITES': 'WE'RE COMING FOR YOU'
The election of President Donald Trump and Republican control of Congress meant the National Rifle Association could probably rest easy that gun laws wouldn't change for at least four years. But the NRA has begun a campaign not against pending legislation but what it sees as liberal forces bent on undoing the progress it's made - and the political powerhouse is resorting to language that some believe could incite violence.

Using the hashtags #counterresistance and #clenchedfistoftruth, the NRA has put out a series of videos that announce a "shot across the bow," and say the gun-rights group is "coming for you" and that "elites ... threaten our very survival," terms that suggest opponents are enemy combatants. […]

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, the director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania, said the tone and language is "overwrought rhetoric" that, viewed by the wrong person, could lead to violence. The kicker on one of the videos - "We're coming for you" - is straight out of the movies, she said, and "that phrase means that violence is imminent and we will perpetrate it."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [26 favorites]


Video Emerges of Man Firing Shot Near Protester at Charlottesville Rally (New York Magazine's "Daily Intelligencer"):
Since the deadly white-nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, two weeks ago, one largely unanswered question has been why local police stood by for so long as rallygoers and protesters clashed in the streets. On Saturday, new video footage emerged adding another layer of urgency to the mystery.

In it, a white rallygoer is shown pointing a gun at a black protester holding an improvised flamethrower. The man yells, “Hey, n—er! Hey!” He then fires what appears to be a live round into a bush close to the protester and strolls away amid fellow marchers — just feet from a line of stationary police officers, who don’t react at all.
The man has been arrested and charged, according to the ACLU of Virginia.

NYTimes also reports--As White Nationalist in Charlottesville Fired, Police ‘Never Moved’.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:31 PM on August 26, 2017 [34 favorites]


xyzzy: "I'm already facepalming over my 2018 congressional race, which pits Katko against a woman with zero political experience. If no one else steps in, we're done. AGAIN. "

I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but it is more than a year out. We're still seeing people just get in for Senate races, let alone House seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:32 PM on August 26, 2017


Arizona man makes Facebook post about driving through protesters, promptly loses job:
Arizona resident James Cobo is proud of his lifted truck, which he calls “trumper.” But after threatening to use “trumper” to plow over anti-Trump protesters, Cobo lost his job.

Cobo made a post on the Protest Trump Downtown Phoenix event page earlier this week, calling the event’s attendees “pathetic” and saying that he would “drive through” protesters with his vehicle. The protest featured a sizable group of people, making Cabo’s post particularly reminiscent of activist Heather Heyer’s death in Charlottesville, Virginia, who died after a man drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters marching in opposition to a white supremacist demonstration in the town. Another 19 people were injured as a result.

“You are all pathetic. Can’t wait to drive through,” he wrote. “4×4 with push bumper will be sweet in this crowd. I named my lifted truck ‘trumper.'”

Cobo was posting from his Facebook account, and his online footprint was easy to track down. It didn’t take long before his employer, repair shop West Valley Tires, learned about Cobo’s comments. West Valley Tires posted a response to Cobo’s statements on Wednesday, revealing that Cobo is “no longer affiliated” with the company.

“We were recently made aware of an employee that posted outrageous posts and videos that are in no way affiliated with the positive views, values, and appreciation we have for people in our community and throughout the world,” the shop wrote on Facebook. “That person is no longer affiliated with West Valley Tires Point S.”
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [46 favorites]




Metafilter: Just cast the fucking stone.
posted by _Synesthesia_ at 11:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [12 favorites]


Kurt Andersen, The Atlantic: How America Lost Its Mind
Much more than the other billion or so people in the developed world, we Americans believe—really believe—in the supernatural and the miraculous, in Satan on Earth, in reports of recent trips to and from heaven, and in a story of life’s instantaneous creation several thousand years ago.
We believe that the government and its co-conspirators are hiding all sorts of monstrous and shocking truths from us, concerning assassinations, extraterrestrials, the genesis of aids, the 9/11 attacks, the dangers of vaccines, and so much more.
And this was all true before we became familiar with the terms post-factual and post-truth, before we elected a president with an astoundingly open mind about conspiracy theories, what’s true and what’s false, the nature of reality.
We have passed through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole. America has mutated into Fantasyland.
posted by mumimor at 1:20 AM on August 27, 2017 [14 favorites]


> Video Emerges of Man Firing Shot Near Protester at Charlottesville Rally
Identified as Imperial Wizard Richard Preston, who definitely is not a hater.
posted by farlukar at 2:03 AM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


government and its co-conspirators are hiding all sorts of monstrous and shocking truths from us, concerning assassinations, extraterrestrials, the genesis of aids, the 9/11 attacks, the dangers of vaccines

Don't forget Poland chemtrails!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 2:52 AM on August 27, 2017


Alt-Right Turns Against ‘Unite the Right’ Organizer Jason Kessler, Labels Him ‘Soros/Deep State Plant’

i guess it would be surprising if these asshats didn't blame their fuckups on jewish financiers…
posted by murphy slaw at 3:06 AM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]


Kurt Andersen, The Atlantic: How America Lost Its Mind

yes, kurt, it's those awful hippies that came up with the irrational ideas of racism, the vietnam war, the laffer curve, reaganism and trumpism, not to mention the rapture and the idea that we could rebuild the governments of the world in our image

just another revisionist hatchet job on the 60s by someone who either doesn't understand them or doesn't want to

hint - our system was insane before people started rebelling against it - in fact, that's WHY they rebelled against it
posted by pyramid termite at 5:16 AM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


Frankie Boyle, in The Guardian (so, it's dark Glaswegian satire):

Maybe Trump is a kind of cry for help from the Earth, a human flare
posted by Wordshore at 5:24 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


just another revisionist hatchet job on the 60s by someone who either doesn't understand them or doesn't want to

that's a pretty shallow and defensive reading of the article, imho
posted by thelonius at 5:47 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


In case anyone isn't following it, the Hurricane Harvey situation is far from over and it is taking on multiply Katrina-esque characteristics, with the really widespread damage only beginning now after the storm has "hit" and people in Houston climbing into their attics to escape rising floodwaters. Mefi Thread.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:00 AM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]


no, it really isn't - the thing that he's really missing is that our society has been an irrational mess for a very long time and the cult of unreason has been around for many many decades, if not hundreds of years

tell me what kind of rational viewpoint was responsible for the fantasy that the south could successfully secede from the union and afterwards, keep slavery going under another name forever?

what kind of rational viewpoint concluded that it would be better to destroy all life on the planet rather than take a chance that a certain ideology might triumph for a few years?

he cites the idea that political enemies being put in camps by the government were originated by the far-left's paranoid wing and taken up by the right wing - rather than being inspired by events such as the holocaust, the soviet gulag, and the internment of japanese americans during world war 2

but some girl believing that she can read a piece of paper with numbers on it in her sleep - now THERE'S a massive corruption of civilization and the human spirit

it's a garbage article and not useful at all
posted by pyramid termite at 6:13 AM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]


Radio 4's 1pm news programme led today on a WTF Trump? oackage, including Hollywood's favourite comedy Nazi v-for-vengeance Gorka sulking up a good 'un, and some Tea Party woman from the Committee to Defend the President or somesuch nonsense. She was bemoaning the GOP and the media, and saying that if they don't get their act together then 45 will form his own party and then we'll all be sorry.

I'm out of 'oh, yeah's at this point, sadly.
posted by Devonian at 6:14 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kurt Andersen, The Atlantic: How America Lost Its Mind

When did america become untethered from reality?

I first noticed our national lurch toward fantasy in 2004, after President George W. Bush’s political mastermind, Karl Rove, came up with the remarkable phrase "reality-based community."


I may have a few years on ol' Kurt but, if I was going to pinpoint a time when "reality"* became "untethered"**, I'd probably go with the fall of Berlin and the discovery of what had been done n the death camps. That's pretty motherfucking untethering. Or perhaps when our tax-payer-funded nuclear hellbomb was used on civilians, women, and children (or anyone). Twice.

A "police action" in Korea that was obviously about chess-with-real-human-pawns and a military industrial complex that grew so powerful so fast that our outgoing war hero President begged us to not let them do what they were doing. On live national TV.

Speaking of TV, they were pretty happy to sell us things while the CIA toppled democracies and installed torturers around the world for bafflingly poor reasons. Then there was this sort-of-live blowing the President's-head-off-on-TV that was wrestled into an ill-fitting "lone gunman" suit and a SCOTUS-led "Congressional Special Investigative Committee" so bad that several years later another Congressional committee essentially overturned the first committee's findings but made no new recommendations. Snap! Oh, and the lone gunman theory was disproved by a home movie that TIME magazine sat on for ten years and which the commission had ample awareness of. THAT'S kind of fucking UNTETHERED there right Kurt ok but wait! There's more!

Reagan knew fuck-all about policies but the supposedly-at-the-time smart-policy party shoved him and his racist pals down everyones throats for eight years while they waggled THOUSANDS of PLANET-ENDING weapons in our face . . . for a decade this is "reality" and frankly Kurt I don't have time to school you about Nixon, The Bush Family Business, Iraq I, Moral Majorities, Jeezus Loves BayBeez, Fawn Hall, Newt Goddamn Gingrich, SCOTUS-stole-the-vote-GeeDubz' Iraq War II, GWOT, seriously the NSA are tracking you right now do you not understand this wtf.

What the fuck, Kurt? HOW did this turn into Trump again? Crazy conspiracy theo- You understand that each of the above are by any measure conspiracies that were proven true after abusing the public's good faith to the absolute limit and beyond, right?

Why are we like this?

The short answer is because we’re Americans—because being American means we can believe anything we want; that our beliefs are equal or superior to anyone else’s, experts be damned.


No. Bad writer! NnnnO! Start again!

* reality - there are many ways to discuss this concept and some of them are enlightening. Many are recommended to the author, check your local library for more.
** untethered - what would "tethered" look like? I mean, after you define reality of course. I'll wait.
posted by petebest at 6:22 AM on August 27, 2017 [22 favorites]


She was bemoaning the GOP and the media, and saying that if they don't get their act together then 45 will form his own party and then we'll all be sorry.

Please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into the briar patch!
posted by Talez at 6:29 AM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's just my opinion, man, but I am fully able to appreciate the gains of the 1960's and -70's and to see that the president of the USA is a boomer who has turned everything on its head and weaponized critical theory. I see what Andersen describes as the other side of the 60's revolution everywhere in my life, to the extent that it has had a strong effect on my personal life throughout my adulthood. The only modification I have is that it isn't limited to the US, though those of us who are not in the US are to some extent better protected by our institutions.
As I read it, Andersen fully acknowledges the gains of the civil rights movement and andi-authoritanism, he compares them to the founding father's hope of creating a rational democratic society. As I see it, his main point is that the far right has appropriated the woo from the hippies and made it theirs, while the left has become the side of rational thought and planning.
posted by mumimor at 6:46 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is fine.

@ReaganBattalion:
Chris Wallace asks Rex Tillerson if the President's speaks for American values on race, "The President speaks for himself."
posted by chris24 at 6:48 AM on August 27, 2017 [26 favorites]


Back to wall-pimping. Gotta say I'm curious about how Mexico will pay for it though other.

@realDonaldTrump
With Mexico being one of the highest crime Nations in the world, we must have THE WALL. Mexico will pay for it through reimbursement/other.

posted by Rust Moranis at 6:56 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


And from the "ICE is a criminal organization whose ashes must be scattered by the winds if the political tables ever turn" department:

Adolfo Flores, Buzzfeed: ICE Left 50 Immigrant Women And Kids Stranded At A Bus Station Before Hurricane Harvey Struck: the bus depot had been closed due to the approaching storm.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:03 AM on August 27, 2017 [36 favorites]


Human beings have always been fucking crazy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:05 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Wonderful coordination between Federal, State and Local Governments in the Great State of Texas - TEAMWORK! Record setting rainfall.
Lil' Donny is excited about handing his first hurricane.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


ICE Left 50 Immigrant Women And Kids Stranded At A Bus Station Before Hurricane Harvey Struck: the bus depot had been closed due to the approaching storm.

I suppose that, once they were at the bus stop, they were not ICE's problem; the good Lord and/or the Invisible Hand of the Market would know their own.

This is just wanton, eliminationist genocidal evil; we're approaching cattle-cars-to-Auschwitz territory here, morally.
posted by acb at 7:11 AM on August 27, 2017 [27 favorites]


In Salon, Chauncey DeVega (@chaunceydevega) blows off some steam and then interviews Timothy Snyder (historian, author of On Tyranny and Black Earth, among others) about Trump, Charlottesville, and neo-Nazis. There's some kind of video at the top that I've muted and ignored.
Let’s break down a few things that the neo-Nazis and the broader “alt-right” said in Charlottesville. “Blood and soil”: What “blood and soil” means is that the government doesn’t matter, law doesn’t matter, politics begins from nature, and nature just means race. What race means is the struggle to control territory. Politics doesn’t start from rules or law, politics starts from violence. Politics is just the struggle of races for territory. When someone says “blood and soil,” what they’re saying is we need to re-begin politics as a murderous racial war which continues until one race survives.

When they say “Jews will not replace us,” what they have in mind is the Nazi idea that Jews are the source of all the ideas and laws which stop the racial conflict from going forward. Therefore Jews are the primary enemies. What that slogan does is it transforms politics into the idea that you have to first clear away the Jews before you can have the racial struggle which “blood and earth” describes. Then the third example of a Nazi slogan — which is a literal citation when they say, “Heil victory” or when they say “Heil Trump” or when they say “Heil” anyone.
Black Earth is a great book but not a cheerful one.
posted by kingless at 7:15 AM on August 27, 2017 [15 favorites]


Lil' Donny is excited about handing his first hurricane.

I find it difficult to read these tweets any other way. The best I can muster is the type of person that thinks that being all chipper and and overly positive at times like this is encouraging and being a leader.
'It's okay people. Chin up and put a smile on your face. No time for a frown. It's all going to be fine and great!'

The type that you want to punch that smile right off of their face.
posted by Jalliah at 7:16 AM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]




Next week on Trump's Book Club, "My Struggle (to avoid STDs in the 1970s was like my own Vietnam)". [fake, so far]
posted by Talez at 7:33 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]




I am watching reporters from KHOU, who have fled their studio, walking down abandoned highways documenting the drowning of their city obviously choked with emotion, and the president is on vacation tweeting threats at Mexico.

I lack words.
posted by jammer at 7:52 AM on August 27, 2017 [50 favorites]


Now bitterly remembering the numerous failed deployments of the phrase "Obama's Katrina".
posted by Artw at 8:00 AM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why is Trump live tweeting this hurricane? It's a really weird way to try and prevent the Katrina fallout. Who knows, maybe it works, but historically whoever is in power takes the blame for natural disasters whether or not they had a good or bad response. Trump tweeting every 10 minutes about Harvey means he owns it now completely. Good luck, that's too bad.
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


All I can say is that the Republican Party is an explicitly white supremacist party and it gets more so every day. Congressional Republicans will do absolutely nothing about any of this. Nothing. Not about Charlottesville. Not about Arapio. Not about the racist violence to come. At most, they will furrow their brows. The Republican Party is a real threat to everything that has ever been close to great about the United States.

A little late with this, but the US was an explicitly white supremacist country up until 1964 and has been implicitly so since, although steadily decreasing in the main.

It really hasn't been very great for very long.

I hope fervently that you can stop this latest round of retrenching by the racists before it all goes too far backwards.
posted by walrus at 8:02 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is Trump's extinction burst, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:06 AM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


notyou: Assange's tweet [asking Twitter folk if he should sue Rouda for libel]

Followed by a reply "BTW, THANK YOU for saving us from this" with this badly photoshopped image of what is apparently a GOP huckster nightmare: three women (well, the same woman, copied three times) wearing a Black Lives Matter t-shirt and shouting, Huma in a burqa (with a shirtless Anthony Weiner taking a selfie in the background), Tim Kaine with a mug shot of "Woody" Kaine, labeled "domestic terrorist" (for crashing a Trump party?), Hillary in shades and a big box of medicine in front of her and Bill in background (flanked by young ladies, because of course), plus Rosie O'Donnell and others wearing pussy hats. An other nonsense, for good measure.

My first thought was "yes, PLEASE!"Just like "this is the future that Liberals want", it (mostly) mirrors two truths: I see diversity at the table, filtered through conservative fear-mongering.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:07 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is Trump's extinction burst, right?

Maybe things will function okay in Texas without meaningful or useful contribution from him, but even if they do I think his reaction is out there for all to see now.

But know knows? It's only just now the wider populace have noticed that he's a racist, the fact that he's an uncaring incompetent grifter may continue to drift past them also.
posted by Artw at 8:12 AM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


Fortunately, the immigrants stranded by ICE have found shelter.
posted by gudrun at 8:16 AM on August 27, 2017 [33 favorites]


Maybe things will function okay in Texas without meaningful or useful contribution from him, but even if they do I think his reaction is out there for all to see now.

It's better if he is not making decisions. Be thankful if he is not. He is not capable of contributing anything meaningful because he lacks the capacity to understand complex situations.
posted by Jalliah at 8:16 AM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


Holy shit, it looks like stormfront.org has been seized by Network Solutions.

That linked article appears to be confused about the difference between a domain name and a website.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:20 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


On the topic of canvassing and door-knocking, I canvassed yesterday with a volunteer org that is supporting a mill levy override for our school district. My kids went with me and I wound up being bemused and unimpressed with the organization/logistics of the canvas effort, because the volunteer organizer first asked if my 12 year old would be willing to walk on her own, my daughter looks older than she is but is painfully shy and I thought it was a little weird because she's a kid and asking a kid to go alone is not ok, and then told me that the 43 door packet she'd handed me should take about an hour. Based on walking 50ish packets for Hillary in the fall, I was estimating at least 90 minutes and it wound up taking us almost 2 hours to finish it. If I hadn't had the experience to know better, I might have felt like I was doing something wrong when it took longer than the the hour she'd said. Those kinds of inaccuracies make it tough on volunteers. I will be offering up my suggestions for process improvements, cuz on the one hand yay the org is already out there for a November ballot issue, but on the other there are a few wrinkles still to smooth out.
posted by danielleh at 8:24 AM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]


historically

hey there's that word again
posted by petebest at 8:25 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


Local person nervously asks for the 7th time since January, This is Trump's extinction burst, right?
posted by dirigibleman at 8:27 AM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


We'll know it's the extinction burst if: (1) he goes on TV and says "I resign," (2) there's some kind of four-way figurative-or-literal shootout between the secret service/Trump private security/US marshals/DC national guard, (3) we see the flash of light that precedes the shockwave.

Everything else is the same old narcissistic injury + sundowning pattern that we've been seeing since forever.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:33 AM on August 27, 2017 [29 favorites]


It doesn't seem appropriate to rant about it in either of the hurricane threads, but I'm absolutely boiling with anger this morning.

I hope all those goddamn legislators praising Trump's roll-back 12 days ago of the new standards for building in flood plains and for infrastructure like hospitals with flood risk back to 1970 era regulations are ashamed this morning, though I doubt it. I hope all those assholes in the Freedom Caucus who want to rewrite the Flood Insurance Plan (which is in debt) to make flood insurance more expensive for poor people, basically - which needs to be re-approved in the next 12 legislative working days, BTW, which is why they're making noises about redoing it- feel ashamed this morning, though I doubt it.

Looking ahead, when the focus shifts from saving people on the ground to cleaning and re-building, I hope that these things become a major part of the story. Though I doubt it.

/end very suppressed rant because also full of dread for how bad it could possible get for the people Texas in the next few hours/days
posted by barchan at 8:36 AM on August 27, 2017 [45 favorites]


talking about mexico's criminality and how they're going to pay for the wall means that his player piano roll reached the end and wrapped around, right?

he's now re-asserting campaign claims that he has publically walked back while completely failing to address his putative legislative priorities.

he's run his whole script and it's not working, so the only thing left for him to do is declare bankruptcy and victory simultaneously.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:46 AM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sarah Kendzior has a few words to say about Trump: I took the liberty of arranging her tweet thread into paragraphs.
Fourth largest city in the US is underwater, creating a humanitarian and economic crisis, and Trump is giving insults and false assurances. I'm less worried about Trump's insults than his refusal to acknowledge his own weaknesses, which may lead to denial of resources in Houston. Much as he invents fake threats, Trump denies real ones and creates fake triumphs. If Harvey makes him "look bad", he may deny people help. If Harvey badly hurts the US economy -- which it likely will -- Trump will not have a plan to help, because he won't confront the problem. He will take the natural disaster personally, insisting all is well or changing the subject to his pet causes. He's already doing this.

You have to remember he has no empathy; people are disposable to him. He has no loyalty to US; he's openly rooted for its economic collapse. He is unlikely to address Harvey and aftermath beyond his own reputation and disaster capitalism profit schemes. Very dangerous for the US. Trump reversed an (Obama) exec order on flood protection in August. No logical rationale for it. Sadism and pettiness.

Harvey is not merely a matter of the next few days. Effects will last for months. Major shocks to citizens, infrastructure, economy. People will need help for a long time. They will also need money. The person in charge spent the entire Secret Service budget on golf trips. Americans are usually good at rallying in a crisis like this. Charities overflow; lines to donate blood are long. But we need leadership too. We don't have the leadership we need to handle the direct hit to Texas or broader US aftershocks. This is going to be a very difficult time. Americans, look out for each other. Look out for Texas. Be generous and helpful. And hold the leaders that fail you accountable.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:50 AM on August 27, 2017 [62 favorites]


Whats the betting on Trump tweeting about how oil prices going up will be good for Russia?
posted by Artw at 8:54 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


That linked article appears to be confused about the difference between a domain name and a website.

It is but the domain has been put into full shutdown at the registry.
posted by Talez at 8:56 AM on August 27, 2017


he's run his whole script and it's not working, so the only thing left for him to do is declare bankruptcy and victory simultaneously.

As a piece-of-shit Real Estate guy from Queens, declaring bankruptcy and stiffing his investors and creditors IS VICTORY!
posted by mikelieman at 8:57 AM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit window.

It's really just letting the LLC holding that asset take the hit. I expect TrumpCo to have thousands of independent LLC's, so that when one folds, the rest of the org is insulated.

Man, un-ravelling all this low-skill financial shit is what the Mueller team excels at! They say, "Despair is a sin", so I put my hope in the idea that "The Long Arm Of The Law" will catch up to him and his family in the long term.

And pray to G-d that in the short term, the damage isn't too great.
posted by mikelieman at 9:00 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


So is there a reason that Texas buildings look like they were made by a third-world country's building regulations?
posted by Yowser at 9:08 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


Americans are usually good at rallying in a crisis like this. Charities overflow

Thinking back to previous articles posted here about Trump's (and especially Pence's) base, isn't this exactly what they want? Relief totally in the hands of charities so that they are the gatekeepers who make sure aid only goes to the "right" people.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:08 AM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]


I assume ICE will swoop in once people start turning up at shelters and aid stations.
posted by AFABulous at 9:19 AM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


I mean, once this gets stabilized whatsoever.
posted by AFABulous at 9:19 AM on August 27, 2017


Via the stormfront reporting:

Network Solutions has also prohibited Stormfront from updating, transferring or deleting its web forum on its own. That means Stormfront's web masters cannot re-introduce the site on another domain.

No that is not how computer code works. "The Site" has code + a database. Assuming any reasonable backups that are held by someone, "The Site" could come back up under any new name or just as an IP address. The only address I found was via here and perhaps locals of that ISP could, as reporters, show up on the company's location and ask questions.

Should Network Solutions go through with deleting the website itself, any re-emerging version would have to start from scratch.

Again, no. Now perhaps they LACK backups. Or perhaps the people running it opted to delete the site and have walked away - the 'staff' depth of the people holding such can't be too deep and a good operation VS those people could kill a site. The lawyers who are claiming they had an effect in that article might be able to have the lack-of-depth staff decide the site isn't worth the hassle and walk away.

The idea that is stormfront or daily stormer is not going to be deleted. There are plenty of blogging/forum software choices and any of them can be used to support the idea behind these "storm" sites, but finding the content will be harder. And like how killing napster begot things like bittorrent applying weather control to these storms MAY force the weev's of the world may cause a distributed 'social' site to spring into existence. Or take code like diaspora and attach an emotional value to them which would cause authors to walk away.

Imagine someone taking some GPL code, making a new storm-thing, and publishing the whole thing as a docker container and github project. Perhaps the backend being distributed with one of the cryptocoin value as distributed mining value based on the number of backups you have paid for. Does the new Nazi site using your cryptocoin-based-on-network-storage/resources go to $0 value? Interesting times.....
posted by rough ashlar at 9:22 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Webhosts handle the backups and DBA work these days. Network Solutions was their webhost as well as registrar. Network Solutions has decalred that the old site, with all of its user records and messages, is gone. They will not be permitted to download content, or backup the site or database. They can try to create a brand new blank-slate site with a different name, but Stormfront is now dead.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:32 AM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]


No that is not how computer code works. "The Site" has code + a database. Assuming any reasonable backups that are held by someone, "The Site" could come back up under any new name or just as an IP address. The only address I found was via here and perhaps locals of that ISP could, as reporters, show up on the company's location and ask questions.

Usually the provider does backups periodically but it's up to the customer to download those as a personal backup. If Stormfront never bothered to download their own copy of the backups, they're screwed.
posted by octothorpe at 9:33 AM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]


Botanizer: Arrest in Deandre Harris attack.
Police charged Daniel Borden, 18, Thursday with malicious wounding weeks after after video and photos surfaced online showing several white men attacking 20-year-old Deandre Harris on Aug. 12 in a parking garage.
...
Greg Berberich, attorney for Borden's family, claimed Borden was charged "as a consequence of rioting caused by the City of Charlottesville's decision to allow (Black Lives Matter) and Antifah (sic) members to attack those protesting the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue from a local park."

Berberich said Borden "was struck in the head and tear gassed multiple times" as he left the park.

"Dan repeatedly requested protection from Charlottesville Police and was ignored," Berberich said. "We believe Dan will be exonerated."
I wonder if anyone has asked why Borden feels he should get protection from the C'ville Police when Harris did not. Moot point now, I guess.

Also, unless your reason for beating someone with a stick is self defense, just shut the fuck up.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2017 [12 favorites]


I finally watched the video of Mattis speaking to a bunch of troops everyone was talking about yesterday (the "get back to respecting each other" bit). The thing that frustrates me is I don't see anything particularly striking about it. I really don't. It was a whole lot of fairly generic statements. Was he admitting to serious problems in America and the administration? Was he speaking in generalities? Was he trying to scold civilians for their silly issues? It really seemed like it could go either way. Read into it whatever you want.

And he's wrong when he says those problems don't exist in the military. He knows it. That's just back-patting stuff people say to boost spirits, but that shit totally happens in uniform, too.

I don't understand how any of that caught headlines.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:35 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


So is there a reason that Texas buildings look like they were made by a third-world country's building regulations?

Because they were hit by a 500-year-storm.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:40 AM on August 27, 2017 [14 favorites]


Webhosts handle the backups and DBA work these days.

Guess I'm old skool then. I tell people to do their own backups. And heck - I'd bet that's what is in the packt free book today Practical DevOps you can download for $0 cost for another 6 hours.

Too bad for 'em that they thought writing a check means its all theirs.

Network Solutions has decalred that the old site, with all of its user records and messages, is gone.

Is it ethical to then point to this as reasons to DIY and keep backups? Or do you have to stick with the loss of VegiTales as a reason to keep a local copy? I was hoping not to have to use something as contentious as VegiTales anymore. And, is there a link here? I'm hoping to find a federal case so it can be found/tracked in PACER/RECAP.

I could always use CloudAtCost I guess......
posted by rough ashlar at 9:44 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


Because they were hit by a 500-year-storm.

Soon to be a five-year storm, thanks to global warming.
posted by Coventry at 9:45 AM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]


I look at 45's behavior over the past week as the 2017 Writers' homage to the "Nero fiddled while Rome burned" trope. In the runup to this devastating weather sequence when 45 could have been tweeting safety planning details and other useful info which would demonstrate responsibility as a leader as well as concern for his citizens (and remember--he got the electoral votes from both this state and neighboring Louisiana, should that state be devastated as well, so his people, so to speak), 45 used his bully pulpit to issue a formal memo on a transgender ban for the military. He held a campaign rally which baldly showed that his involvement with nation-healing on racial and cultural matters will be non-existent.

Fast forward to the onset of a Catagory 4 hurricane which would then stall as a tropical storm and dump a projected (by some forecasters) 50 inches of rain on the area of the fourth largest city in the U.S. While he should be seen as "on the job" and monitoring both the storm and efforts to protect and aid this whole storm area, he takes yet more time away from the job with his last live remark (while boarding a helicopter which is getting him the hell outta Dodge) is a quick "Good luck, Texas" with a thumbs up gesture. I assume the Writers inserted the thumbs up bit to demonstrate empathy. "Heckuva job, Brownie" improves by comparison to this totally tone deaf piece by the Writers.

And I don't want to hear about how "connected" Camp David is--image is important and he should have been in the White House. Full stop.

And then, with the storm at its height as to strength rating, he drops his piece de resistance: pardoning Joe Arpaio while the remainder of the nation is concerned for the health and welfare of the citizens in an entire region of the country. Were the Writers testing us to see if we could still watch multiple events at a time and work on all of them?

Sadly, I am really disappointed and beyond moderately angry with these Writers: their singular lack of subtlety and plot finesse is completely unforgivable. And if it eventually develops that there were, in fact, no Writers in charge of this complete and utter fuckup, that it's all just humans being humans, then shame on us for letting it get to this point.
posted by Silverstone at 9:47 AM on August 27, 2017 [12 favorites]


Joseph Gurl: NYTimes also reports--As White Nationalist in Charlottesville Fired, Police ‘Never Moved’.

Huh, I thought "I was scared" was justification enough for police to shoot, but then I remembered that they only really get scared of young black men. (I could have sworn that was the justification a police officer used for shooting an unarmed black kid, but I can't find a solid reference, instead I've found too many different articles about different young men being killed by the police, but "it's not a racial thing," it's PTSD or confusion in the heat of the moment, or anything except racism.)

Still, it's pretty shocking when police don't even move when shots are fired next to them.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:49 AM on August 27, 2017 [19 favorites]


Is it too cynical if I believe they would have moved quickly enough if counter protestors had started shooting?
posted by walrus at 9:53 AM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


The strain not to say "fuck it" and go golfing must be incredible.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't understand how any of that caught headlines.

Yeah, pretty standard "don't give up!" morale-booster template. He could also have gone with the "Good Job! - but don't get comlplacent (examples of not-perfect things)" template or the YFG.
posted by ctmf at 9:55 AM on August 27, 2017


Is it too cynical if I believe they would have moved quickly enough if counter protestors had started shooting?

If counter-protestors had started shooting, the police would have done the same thing they would have done if the nazi guy had hit his target or kept firing: run away and allow the nazis to open up with their assault rifles.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:58 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not full on Kent state?
posted by Artw at 10:03 AM on August 27, 2017


Not full on Kent state?

The monopoly of violence by the Government has been outsourced to volunteers apparently.
posted by mikelieman at 10:06 AM on August 27, 2017 [22 favorites]


So is there a reason that Texas buildings look like they were made by a third-world country's building regulations?

Because they were hit by a 500-year-storm.


Infrastructure sucks, lots of companies try to do everything on the cheap, and yes, on top of it, this is an extraordinary moment. Stuff is going to break.

Also, we're also bound to see a ton of "Why didn't they just leave?" bullshit. It'll be everywhere. We need to push back on it hard.

It's the 4th largest city in America. Nobody should need a reminder of how many people are hanging on by their fingernails on a good day (including plenty of MeFites). Yes, there were warnings, but you could have had completely accurate forecasts a month ago and there would still be people left behind and people who have nowhere else to go.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:08 AM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]


Because they were hit by a 500-year-storm.

Soon to be a five-year storm, thanks to global warming.


Katrina was in 2005, 12 years ago. These are already 10 year storms.

(yes, i know, the "n-year-storm" thing pretends to account for a particular location. that kind of thinking is a mistake.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:10 AM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]


Also, we're also bound to see a ton of "Why didn't they just leave?" bullshit.

because the mayor and other authorities decided that a mass evacuation would be more dangerous then what they thought would happen - it was a conscious decision - that's what the mayor was saying at the press conference

i'm not inclined to do any second guessing
posted by pyramid termite at 10:14 AM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


Why Houston Isn't Ready for Harvey, from ProPublica

"Climate change is making such storms more routine. Meanwhile, unchecked development in the Houston area is wiping out the pasture land that once soaked up floodwaters."
posted by jgirl at 10:48 AM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]


Mod note: There's a thread about Harvey over here, so general discussion about the hurricane should go there, though specific Trump/WH related storm news can still be discussed here.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:04 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, we're also bound to see a ton of "Why didn't they just leave?" bullshit. It'll be everywhere. We need to push back on it hard.

So here's the thing. When you have a city of 4 million people, evacuating is pretty much impossible. When Rita came through a month after Katrina, everyone panicked and the entire city tried to evacuate. Leading to people PARKED on all the highways out of town for DAYS. I was working in a town along a major evacuation route and stalled cars were everywhere. There was no gas to be had, cars were everywhere with no gas. People DIED in their cars from heat, and many, many pets died from the stress. It was a disaster. It took people DAYS to make drives it usually took a couple of hours for.

So the last thing anyone wants is a panicked evacuation again. The people in charge obviously decided that telling people to stay in place was the less deadly option. Now, things are fucking BAD and may get worse. But it is a city that knows how to deal with flooding since it happens so often here. They really they need to evacuate people in certain areas and not others, but that tends to set off a bunch of people who don't really need to worry into fleeing as well. And there's nowhere to go for a lot of people.

(I'm in the storm, it hasn't stopped raining since Friday night, but not currently in any danger of flooding. I tried visiting the Harvey thread and it made me anxious as hell, so hi. Trump thread seems more soothing at the moment.)
posted by threeturtles at 11:17 AM on August 27, 2017 [54 favorites]


Trump thread seems more soothing at the moment.

Damn. That's straight up heartbreaking.
posted by BS Artisan at 11:27 AM on August 27, 2017 [31 favorites]


"evacuating is pretty much impossible."
Exactly. It was impossible in Katrina, too, and yet we heard and heard and heard about how it somehow should've magically happened. This is all looking familiar. Before the hurricane: "If you're not going to evacuate, write your SSN on your body somewhere so we can ID your corpse, you shiftless idiot." During and after the hurricane: "Heckuvajob, feds! Too bad about the 1. shiftless idiot citizenry who failed to all hop in their cars that we know they don't actually have and then sit parked in said imaginary cars for a week plus on the interstate and 2. incompetent state and city officials failing to magically make a hurricane not happen." Never: "good news! after noticing that this happens year after year after year after year exactly like this every single time, we finally invested in the nationwide transportation infrastructure and social services that would allow for mass evacuation, and now we no longer have to go on TV and say horrible heartless stuff to the indigent, the sick, and the elderly every single time we notice a big storm is about to kill a bunch of them." Never: "We outlawed unsustainable building in flood plains and smack up against the gulf of mexico and the atlantic." and of course never: "uh. Maybe we need to quit burning the fossil fuels, all."
posted by Don Pepino at 11:54 AM on August 27, 2017 [59 favorites]


Never: "good news! after noticing that this happens year after year after year after year exactly like this every single time, we finally invested in the nationwide transportation infrastructure and social services that would allow for mass evacuation, and now we no longer have to go on TV and say horrible heartless stuff to the indigent, the sick, and the elderly every single time we notice a big storm is about to kill a bunch of them."

Exactly this! I live in California, so I'm only watching from afar (earthquakes are the Big Scary Natural Disaster potential here, and they come with no warning). But I had friends who lived in an area hit hard by Katrina, and I remember the evacuation plans were pretty much "you're on your own." No car? Disabled? Get your family or nice neighbors to help! I'm sure there's room for you, Grandma, her wheelchair and oxygen tank, the dog, and the cat, in the back of someone's already-crowded and poorly maintained (because poverty) car! The powers that be were pretty much "let them eat cake."

I was having brunch with friends yesterday, one of whom just moved her from Texas, and so we got to talking about Harvey and natural disasters. My transplanted Texan friend wondered if we were going to be missing "Heckuva Job, Brownie" by the time Harvey is over, given that there are no FEMA or NOAA directors at all.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:04 PM on August 27, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump is not just tweeting about David Clarke's book. He's also got time to brag about winning Missouri, the need for a wall because Mexico is full of The Crime, and how terrible NAFTA is. Cool. Cool cool cool.
posted by Anonymous at 12:14 PM on August 27, 2017


I think Tramp got himself a FEMA guy, finally...? Yes: someone named Brock. If he proves to be terrible, I bet Craig Fugate could be persuaded to come back. He was effective and genuinely dedicated to the work.
posted by Don Pepino at 12:16 PM on August 27, 2017


given that there are no FEMA or NOAA directors at all.

It went largely unnoticed, but on June 20th, Brock Long, noted Hurricane Program Manager during Katrina[*], was confirmed as the new director of FEMA.

(Benjamin Freidman is serving as Acting Administrator of NOAA, so that point still stands..)

[*] that went so well that he left the position in 2006.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:17 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is there somewhere I can go to just beat something with a baseball bat?


Used to, for church fundraisers, have a junker car towed into the lot on Carnival weekends. Paid your $5, got use of a sledgehammer for five minutes.

I note we have a lot of extra Confederate statues around, maybe a fundraiser of sorts enroute to the melting/recycling stage is in order ....
posted by tilde at 12:24 PM on August 27, 2017 [22 favorites]


Brock Long is the new director of FEMA, but the two other major positions are holdovers from Obama. As is the director of NOAA. And there's still no permanent Secretary of DHS--which oversees FEMA--since John Kelly left.
posted by Anonymous at 12:29 PM on August 27, 2017


The thing that frustrates me is I don't see anything particularly striking about it.

Mattis is sixth in line. It only takes five people to go down for a man that believes our nation should be fundamentally good to take the helm.
posted by corb at 12:36 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


Exactly. It was impossible in Katrina, too, and yet we heard and heard and heard about how it somehow should've magically happened.

Same with Sandy. "Why didn't people leave?" And fucking go where? Where do you temporarily put millions of people? Even if you could magically teleport them all out so that every road for 200 miles wasn't a parking lot, even if you booked every spare hotel room in the entire country, it still wouldn't do the job. There just isn't a way to do a massive evacuation where everyone has a place to go. Every way to move people around requires travel time and space to get vehicles in and out.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:45 PM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]


Again: Mattis's comments are so boiler-plate standard and vague you can read them any way you want. One can just as easily interpret him as saying he wants all of Trump's critics to get in line and be supportive.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:46 PM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]


And fucking go where? Where do you temporarily put millions of people?

I believe this could, actually, be managed well, with the right infrastructure and emergency planning. It's just that the cost of such infrastructure and planning would be expensive enough to make the explosive growth of Texas' boomtowns impossible, and it would also probably require people to take storm refugees into their homes, something Americans don't like to do. We could also salvage Miami through megaprojects, like raising the whole city, skyscrapers and all, up on an elevated platform, but it's so expensive that people would rather just live out their lives there as if nothing was happening until it's too late. The cause of this disaster is not a storm, but short-term, profit oriented thinking, and atomic individualism.
posted by dis_integration at 1:09 PM on August 27, 2017 [12 favorites]


I think Tramp got himself a FEMA guy, finally...? Yes: someone named Brock.

Yes! And unlike most of Trump's appointees, the guy has experience. So much experience! The perfect experience! He even worked for FEMA before! He was their director of hurricane managment from 2001 til Jan 2006. And I am totally sure that Katrina happening in August 2005 had absolutely nothing to do with him moving on to other career paths for awhile.
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]


Again: Mattis's comments are so boiler-plate standard and vague you can read them any way you want. One can just as easily interpret him as saying he wants all of Trump's critics to get in line and be supportive.

That's boiler plate? Seems more scary and fascistic.

(Also the way I'd probably interpret it, Mattis being a war criminal and all)
posted by Artw at 1:15 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


TEAMWORK! Record setting rainfall.

Is it me, or does this sound like Trump is congratulating the various civic groups for causing the rain?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:28 PM on August 27, 2017 [13 favorites]


Finding reasons to blame the people effected by natural disasters for their own misery is a way of helping people rationalize not helping them. To whit, a senator can vote not to help with disaster relief because they didn't flee and thus deserved it. A private citizen can justify not donating money because they shouldn't have lived there in the first place. A religious leader can deny charity because they were sinners or voted for sinners and thus the disaster was God's will and we'd be wrong to help.

When the relief effort goes bad and Trump is help accountable he will almost certainly find a way to blame the victims.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:35 PM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]


We could also salvage Miami through megaprojects, like raising the whole city, skyscrapers and all, up on an elevated platform,

Why? If Miami is 'salvaged' - why not New York? San Francisco? Mar-A-Lago?
Who's gonna pay for that? Mexico after paying to the wall?

The humans who were using the land before the Europeans showed up did use the shorelines. As seasonal hunting/fishing camps. Why keep insisting on permanent settlements where nature washes it away or be placed underwater as global warming is gonna just flood the location out?

I get Trumperty to claim 'screw you nature!' but if you are otherwise saying in your life 'global warming is real' why support continued building in places that are just gonna get flooded out? Seems like a logical disconnect.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:37 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]


So much for the Wall, anyway; no Texan of any stripe is going to stand by and watch money being wasted on that stupidity, now -- not to mention that Houston is going to need every Mexican laborer and craftsman it can lure across the border from now 'til who knows when.
posted by jamjam at 4:11 PM on 8/27
[−] Favorite added! [!]

I thought this was an important enough to cross post from the other thread. Any Republican who imagines that spending $20 billion on a wall in order to appease Trump & his base needs to be straightened out. Houston will need billions to recover and rebuild.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:38 PM on August 27, 2017 [41 favorites]


"Houston is going to need every Mexican laborer and craftsman it can lure"
Oh, man, that's right: the New Orleans apres Katrina rehab was mostly immigrant laborers, IIRC.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:43 PM on August 27, 2017 [12 favorites]


Any Republican who imagines that spending $20 billion on a wall in order to appease Trump & his base needs to be straightened out.

Just this morning, Trump tweeted "....Mexico will pay for it through reimbursement/other." Other!
posted by thelonius at 1:46 PM on August 27, 2017 [6 favorites]


Bet with a friend, on whether the first group to blame Jews for Harvey will be alt-right or fundie Christian.

The ante is donations to organizations fighting the good fight. The anticipation is killing me, because whoever wins still loses, so really there's nothing except the fact that under this government, it's inevitable 45 will retweet whoever does it.

Bonus points if the Nazi bastard is in public office and the crack costs this person the job.
posted by saysthis at 1:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


So much for the Wall, anyway; no Texan of any stripe is going to stand by and watch money being wasted on that stupidity, now

(and)

Any Republican who imagines that spending $20 billion on a wall in order to appease Trump & his base needs to be straightened out. Houston will need billions to recover and rebuild.


Guys, if you're counting on Republicans to put compassion and human decency above nonsense and racist garbage, I have very bad news for you about the 2016 election.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:01 PM on August 27, 2017 [33 favorites]


I've said it before, I'll say it again. The notion of building walls (and lots of them) is not a bad one, and when I say walls, I mean dikes and levees and other massive projects that will be required to deal with the effects of climate change, bigger, wilder storms, rising sea levels. The Dutch could probably help.
posted by philip-random at 2:09 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


Well well well...

Kobach, author of controversial Arizona law, defends Arpaio pardon

Thanks for coming out as a Nazi, Kris Kobach.. it's good for us to know that for certain.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:12 PM on August 27, 2017 [21 favorites]


when I say walls, I mean dikes and levees

We're going to build a seawall and Atlantis is going to pay for it?
posted by peeedro at 2:14 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]


and it would also probably require people to take storm refugees into their homes, something Americans don't like to do.

It's not that Americans don't like taking people into their homes - they absolutely do, and many did during previous hurricanes. It's that they want to decide who they take in, and have the need verified, which is nearly impossible when disasters strike.

Like, I'm sure if a company like AirBnB said they would allow zero prices for disaster refugees if hosts wanted to, you'd get a lot of people housed - but they'd all be unthreatening people who had existing reviews, which given AirBnB's usual clientele, would probably be confined to a specific economic class.
posted by corb at 2:15 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]


tl;dr - affluent white people.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 PM on August 27, 2017 [11 favorites]


My brother- and sister-in-law are trapped in their flooded house in Houston, and two of my Facebook friends in Texas have offered to put them up. It's heartening.
posted by acrasis at 2:26 PM on August 27, 2017 [13 favorites]


tl;dr - affluent white people.

Yeah, basically. Which is - complicated? Like, it's better than not being willing to house anyone at all, I suppose, but at the same time, what do you do about that?

I remember back when I lived in NYC, this affluent-looking white couple got on a train and told this super convoluted story that I can't even remember all of about how they became homeless, and spent the last of their money on camping gear, and got it stolen or something? And New Yorkers, like, the most cynical of people that won't usually give even change to homeless panhandlers, were handing out, like, 20$ bills and stuff to those people.

And I remember even at the time having these feelings of like, "yay, they're caring" mixed with "but only for the people who they can imagine themselves being?"

I see that kind of reaction in disaster response a lot.
posted by corb at 2:35 PM on August 27, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm pretty used to seeing a lot of in-person charity from people who are absolutely against social safety net stuff. They'll take people into their homes or give financial support, help finding jobs, all that stuff, very freely--as long as they know the person. But they vote Republican straight down the ticket and they're totally against any kind of program that helps needy people in the abstract 'cause they think it's all fraud and abuse.

I don't think they recognize the intersections of race, gender, ability, etc. in all of that. They only see the abstract vs. the thing they can personally verify to their own satisfaction. And that seems to be the major limit on their charity.

It makes no goddamn sense to me at all but it's perfectly reasonable to them. In my more charitable moments, I've thought that may be one of the fundamental differences between left and right on the political spectrum.

Then 2016 happened and that went out the window. (In fairness any of those charitable Republicans I know who will talk about the election voted for Clinton. It's the ones who won't talk about it that I'm side-eyeing now.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:43 PM on August 27, 2017 [15 favorites]


There was no gas to be had, cars were everywhere with no gas. People DIED in their cars from heat, and many, many pets died from the stress. It was a disaster. It took people DAYS to make drives it usually took a couple of hours for.

I don't think this got enough attention. Evacuating a city the size of Houston is a monumental task. "People died in their cars" is an understatement; it was over 100 deaths. From the evacuation. Almost exactly the number of deaths in Texas as from the storm itself. So it's not absolutely clear whether the evacuation was a net positive.

It was complicated because this was during a major heat wave and had temperatures been cooler the number of deaths during evacuation would have been much lower. But it shows that the considerations and logistics that go into evacuating 3 million people are not straightforward or obvious.
posted by Justinian at 2:49 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]


I'd also note that New Orleans, even at its peak population had less than 1/5th of the population of Houston.

I'm not going to say that evacuating Houston is impossible, but I am saying that the success in New Orleans doesn't necessarily mean it can be done with a much larger population.
posted by sotonohito at 2:53 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]




Also something to keep in mind for the near future; in 2013 when Sandy inundated NY and NJ, 179 Republicans (including 20 from Texas) voted against the federal Sandy relief bill. I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see if they are internally consistent!
posted by Justinian at 2:58 PM on August 27, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see if they are internally consistent!

Of course not!
posted by PenDevil at 3:01 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


Stop, you're spoiling the surprise :(
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yet I still feel shame 25 years later because people I personally knew, who were literally dying, got dragged off to jail. (They survived that, but died within a couple of years.)
posted by AFABulous at 2:15 PM on August 26 [14 favorites −] [!]


When I was 18 and friends were being shipped off to Vietnam, some of us college kids decided we wanted to protest the war by staging some guerilla theater (fake blood, tiger cages, pyjamas, and rubber slippers) in front of the Humble Oil building in downtown Houston. There was some big meeting of oil executives going on and we thought we would get arrested due to the increased security around the building. But...we were seven white kids and I'm pretty sure they knew we were college students, so they just let us do our thing until we noticed that no one other than the cops and some folks (FBI?) taking pictures from adjacent rooftops was watching any more. We went home quite disappointed.

Impact on the war, probably zero out of a possible 10. We didn't have the savvy of Act Up, who I dealt with later in my life when I was doing research designing treatment and prophylaxis trials on HIV/AIDS with Jim Neaton as part of the Terry Beirn Community Program for Clinical Research on AIDS. Originally, the ACT UP folks believed that the pharma companies were their allies and saw researchers who wanted to figure out what worked in our methodical way as the enemy, preventing the life-saving drugs from reaching patients. We wisely collaborated with activists in our planning and oversight committees as well as on our study management committees. When they saw that we were skeptical of both the FDA and the drug companies, they were puzzled but intrigued. By the time we showed that some of the prophylactic therapies pushed by the drug companies were, in fact, harming patients, they had already figured out what was what. They were potent allies in getting the research done and I credit them with directly saving thousands of lives by collaborating rather than opposing careful research. They made sure the community understood the value of research and that we researchers made drugs that were effective available on a compassionate basis, not only to those enrolled in randomized studies but to larger observational groups.

Protesting was only one aspect of their effective strategy for improving the lot of HIV-infected people. There are many lessons that can be learned from them.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:03 PM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]




Hmm. Burning MAGA hats. That sounds like both a good general anti- Trump protest but also a good way to make him berserk. Endorsed.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [26 favorites]


hopefully not one they paid money to Trump for.
posted by Artw at 3:33 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


Of all MAGA hats in existence, I wonder how many are official Trump merchandise and how many are bootleg knockoffs.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:44 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


Mega double quadrupal bonus points if you can persuade an ex Trumpie to donate their hat for burning.
posted by Artw at 3:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you want to talk about Trump hats, it's worth pointing out that he's spent the weekend modeling his merch during a hurricane.
posted by zachlipton at 3:50 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


So the citizens are being asked for many sacrifices. They are being asked to donate money, to give blood, to open their homes to strangers, to go out on their boats and kayaks and water skies to rescue people. And the American people will do it willingly. Meanwhile our President will do nothing more than the bare minimum required by his job. I expect he will sacrifice nothing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:56 PM on August 27, 2017 [49 favorites]


You can buy Chinese knock off MAGA hats on eBay for 2.99 for all your protest needs.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 3:56 PM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


He's not golfing!
posted by Artw at 4:01 PM on August 27, 2017


You can buy Chinese knock off MAGA hats on eBay for 2.99 for all your protest needs.

Are they the extra-cheap ones that skimp on legally mandated fireproofing standards?

(Some UKIPpers in the UK ran into trouble trying to burn an EU flag which was fireproofed to EU standards. Not sure what the standards in the US are, but it may be worth looking into.)
posted by acb at 4:03 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't get the press desire to give Trump any credit at all, it just baffles me. He hates them! He'd jail them all for dissing him if he could! He's....well, he's him. Ethically speaking, there's no "there" there! And yet, we get this groveling shit and a clear longing for a pivot.

AND and..you can't even chalk it up to self-interest. He regularly screws over people that help him, for shits and grins! Self-interest should make you run away from a situation like this.

It just baffles. I am baffled, fatigued, and out of evens.
posted by emjaybee at 4:08 PM on August 27, 2017 [18 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: HISTORIC rainfall in Houston, and all over Texas. Floods are unprecedented, and more rain coming. Spirit of the people is incredible.Thanks!

Thanks!
posted by theodolite at 4:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [35 favorites]


I'm hearing news reports of how people in the Houston area are coming together and helping one another.

I wonder what happens when white supremacists are in a position to help, in a disaster, those they revile.
posted by jgirl at 4:25 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


They kill them.
posted by Yowser at 4:26 PM on August 27, 2017 [19 favorites]


I wonder what happens when white supremacists are in a position to help, in a disaster, those they revile.

That is literally the excuse version of how the holocaust happened.
posted by Artw at 4:29 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


(Or, yes, the actuality: They kill them)
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


Chances Trump will blame the mayor for not ordering evacuation of the city: 75%

(sees Houston's mayor is black)

Make that 100%.
posted by chris24 at 4:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [28 favorites]


They kill them

Check out what happened around Algiers Point post-Katrina. Actual racist deathsquads killed up to 20 people and I don't think there were ever any convictions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:33 PM on August 27, 2017 [20 favorites]


Anyone going into camps run by the recently or future pardoned sheriffs of the world has a fair chance of not coming out through "neglect".
posted by Artw at 4:36 PM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]


Here's an article about the shootings around Algiers Point during the Katrina aftermath.
posted by Autumnheart at 4:46 PM on August 27, 2017 [13 favorites]


I know my wondering above probably makes me look like a naive idiot.

But I remember during the 2008 campaign, some TV commentator (not a conservative) was talking about Palin and Alaska. She said that Alaska has a different culture among those with divergent views -- the conditions are so harsh that, and this was her specific example, you don't refuse to help someone on the side of the road in Arctic temperatures just because of what bumper sticker is on their vehicle.

That's a different ball of wax than white supremacists, of course.
posted by jgirl at 4:49 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]




Politico The Trouble With Ivanka’s Business Partner
His vendors call him a “career grifter.” His father’s creditors claim he’s a fraud and a serial extortionist who shakes people down with trumped-up threats of criminal charges. With these and other allegations piling up in court records along with judgments—against him, his wife and his businesses—for millions of dollars, his lawyers are abandoning him, saying he’s a deadbeat. All the while, he’s been living in one of the most luxurious mansions in the Bronx.
And just as an amusing aside, my husband directed my attention to WRAL (Raleigh news) where they have published a guide to the Confederate statues in the state capitol. The comments are all versions of "How dare you publish this hit list. You are just like Obama signaling our position to the enemy, this article certainly seems like an incitement or invitation for protest / violence to downtown Raleigh. It's quite disgusting. I wonder how the WRAL employees / "journalists" would feel if someone were to post a tour of their home addresses, children's schools and businesses they frequent"

Like wut, wut, wut?! Google is still around and still useful if anyone cares to discover what statues are erected in Raleigh. This is not some top secret info.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]


A bit o' levity: Instead of traffic note, motorists get anti-Trump and ‘Kill Nazis’ messages on hacked sign
For the second time in a week, an unknown prankster hacked into a flashing message board along Beach Drive in the District and posted a profane message directed at President Trump, along with one that said “Kill Nazis.”

Motorists and pedestrians saw the sign in Rock Creek Park shortly after 7 a.m. Guy Hill said he was jogging south on Beach Drive near picnic area 7 when he saw the sign, which said “F— Trump,” and snapped the photo. He then continued his run and reported the unauthorized messages to the U.S. Park Police station in the park.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:06 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


And yet, we get this groveling shit and a clear longing for a pivot.

Corporations exist to make a profit, news corporations exist to make a profit. Think of the most unscrupulous chickenshit middle-of-the-road beancountery middle-management content dictum, slap a ginger beard on it and call it Chuck.

Mr. Todd, if you're nasty
posted by petebest at 5:07 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hawk won't leave man's cab. Man takes him home -- where a Confederate flag is displayed.

I saw the video without knowing the twist ending. I was like... awww these seem like nice guys helping ou... WHAT THE FUCK.
posted by Justinian at 5:10 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


The comments are all versions of

Hey, hey. You know the rules. Especially down here.
posted by petebest at 5:11 PM on August 27, 2017




Looks like Trump is going to restore the flow of military gear to police departments.

Cancelling my travel plans in the South and a lot of the Midwest. Too many soldier-wannabe cops.
posted by ocschwar at 5:13 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


JustKeepSwimming: "I also once got visited by a candidate for mayor during a primary where he told me that I was the only person in my building who voted in every election and therefore he wanted to say hi."

deludingmyself: "… at least where I am, the Democratic Party keeps track of who votes in every election, even primaries."
This is the sort of thing which sends shivers up the spines of people in sane countries.

In most (all?) other genuine democracies, people would be demanding to know how the fucking fuck Candidate X or the Y Party even knows whether you voted or not. Because unless you've somehow told them*, they don't know - elections are run by nominally independent bodies, and it's (almost always, if not always) against the law for them to reveal that info.

US primaries, sure, understandable - regardless of whether they're closed or open, partisan or non-partisan, they're essentially party pre-selection elections - but the actual, for-real election? That's fucking crazy…

(* One common work-around is for parties or candidates to send out postal/absentee voting forms themselves - you return the ballot paper in its security envelope using the supplied reply-paid envelope, the candidate/party passes the sealed security envelope to the electoral officials, but uses the numbering/barcode on the reply-paid envelope to feed their records. It's legal in many places, but certainly frowned upon - people tend to get pissed off when they learn they fell for it, and electoral officials keep a close eye on the practice to ensure it doesn't get too deceptive…)
posted by Pinback at 5:15 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


Cancelling my travel plans in the South and a lot of the Midwest. Too many soldier-wannabe cops.

If you think soldier-wannabe cops are only found in the South and Midwest I have some unfortunate news for you.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 5:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


I was like... awww these seem like nice guys helping ou...

Exactly what I was driving at. No, a hawk isn't a person of color in crisis, but this was a humane gesture.

My guess is that they're not full-blown white supremacists, but more of the heritage-bigot stripe.
posted by jgirl at 5:20 PM on August 27, 2017


She said that Alaska has a different culture among those with divergent views -- the conditions are so harsh that, and this was her specific example, you don't refuse to help someone on the side of the road in Arctic temperatures just because of what bumper sticker is on their vehicle.

I can attest that this is broadly true. It doesn't require a different kind of heart or anything. It's part of all Arctic Indigenous cultures' basic values too, for the remarkably simple reason that you need to be able to count on other people to rescue you. It's mutually assured survival.

On my first visit to the Iñupiaq community where I work in the Alaskan Arctic I asked why everyone left their kanitchat (entry foyer to a home, traditionally a tunnel into a sod house, now a small room behind the first of two front doors) unlocked, and it was explained to me that everyone needed to know that if they were trapped outside in subzero temps or being chased by a polar bear, that they could get behind the first door of any house they tried (and the first house they tried) and shelter. I was advised not to be shy about it if I was in trouble, just get into someone's kanichat. Also, since the heavy coats are kept there you could always bundle up for a few hours, usually with some heat from the house seeping through too. And you would never ever pass by someone in distress or stranded out on the tundra or the gas line dirt roads out of town. Likewise it is considered unthinkable to refuse to share your food with anyone who is hungry. Foxhole principle, I suppose. It's worked pretty damn well for a few thousand years though.
posted by spitbull at 5:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [39 favorites]


In most (all?) other genuine democracies, people would be demanding to know how the fucking fuck Candidate X or the Y Party even knows whether you voted or not
Here in Australia they know because voting is compulsory. If you don't vote, you get fined.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:21 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


um. Hate to break it to you, but a human gesture to an animal does not a good person make. Call me for the awws when this confederate flag hanging dude helps a black man or a Jewish person because until then, I don't believe for a second that he isn't a full-blown white supremacist, because that's what his fucking flag says he is. Like srsly, Hitler was kind to animals, many MANY terrible people camouflage their terribleness behind being kind to animals. being kind to animals is like the bare minimum and it means NOTHING.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:23 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]



um. Hate to break it to you, but a human gesture to an animal does not a good person make. Call me for the awws when this confederate flag hanging dude helps a black man or a Jewish person because until then, I don't believe for a second that he isn't a full-blown white supremacist, because that's what his fucking flag says he is. Like srsly, Hitler was kind to animals, many MANY terrible people camouflage their terribleness behind being kind to animals. being kind to animals is like the bare minimum and it means NOTHING.


I know and agree. Sometimes I look for straws to grasp.
posted by jgirl at 5:25 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


I love animals, I'm autistic, and sometimes I understand my dog better than I understand people. BUT People are more important than animals. PERIOD.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:27 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is the sort of thing which sends shivers up the spines of people in sane countries.

It's not illegal in the US to have access to info that shows THAT someone voted, though HOW they voted should be protected information. If someone is a registered member of a party it's not a leap to assume they voted for that party's candidates, though it's also not a given. Reaching out to consistently active voters seems proactive.
posted by danielleh at 5:27 PM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]


On the one hand I also think that "let's not assume that being kind to animals means he'll treat people the same", but on the other hand I also think that "let's also not assume that he's got a Klan suit in his closet just because he's got a Confederate Flag in his house. Literally all we know about this guy is that he has that flag in the window, and that he helped a hawk.

That's honestly not enough to go on, and is not germane to this conversation. It's also edging a little too uncomfortably close to "let's point and laugh at the dumb hicks" for my liking, so I have to say I'm not sure why we've been informed of this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:28 PM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]


Looks like Trump is going to restore the flow of military gear to police departments.

My right-wing sibling and I got into a huge argument about this. We watched the trailer for Do Not Resist, a documentary about police militarization. (Which looks great.)

I said I was worried about the increased militarization since violent crimes are the lowest they've been in decades based on data from the FBI.

My sibling said the public reports were lies and they knew what was really going on because they'd done consulting on border security with government agencies. Also I should talk to our mutual friend, a patrol officer on the Alameda, CA police department, to find out what's really going on.

No explanation for why the government is lying and saying crime rates are lower if they're trying to justify giving military weapons to the police. Why wouldn't they say it was higher?

Also, he's a nice guy, but I trust the FBI and mainstream media more than I trust Joe Beatcop.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on August 27, 2017 [10 favorites]




Bet with a friend, on whether the first group to blame Jews for Harvey will be alt-right or fundie Christian.

Do have bets for other groups being blamed? Because I've seen a number of who I assume are Christian or God believing alt-righters blame Antifa and BLM for bringing about Gods wrath. It will also be their fault if the recovery doesn't go well.
posted by Jalliah at 5:44 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


Axios with a couple interesting articles on a Sunday night.

Scoop: Trump frustration with Tillerson rising fast

And this frustration was before this morning's performance on Fox.

and...

Exclusive: Trump vents in Oval Office, "I want tariffs. Bring me some tariffs!"
posted by chris24 at 5:45 PM on August 27, 2017 [16 favorites]


Exclusive: Trump vents in Oval Office, "I want tariffs. Bring me some tariffs!"

The thing about this story is either that Trump really calls members of his own staff "globalists," or someone who does call members of the White House staff "globalists" is the one who leaked this to Swan and put the word in Trump's mouth.
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on August 27, 2017 [15 favorites]


Bet with a friend, on whether the first group to blame Jews for Harvey will be alt-right or fundie Christian.

Do have bets for other groups being blamed?


The storms are a symptom of climate change.
Climate change is, as Trump has informed us, a hoax invented by the Chinese.
Ergo, Harvey is China's fault.
posted by dhens at 5:50 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]


If you think soldier-wannabe cops are only found in the South and Midwest I have some unfortunate news for you.

For example, try New Hampshire.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:58 PM on August 27, 2017


WaPo, Carol D. Leonnig, Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman, Trump’s business sought deal on a Trump Tower in Moscow while he ran for president
While Donald Trump was running for president in late 2015 and early 2016, his company was pursuing a plan to develop a massive Trump Tower in Moscow, according to several people familiar with the proposal and new records reviewed by Trump Organization lawyers.

As part of the discussions, a Russian-born real estate developer urged Trump to come to Moscow to tout the proposal and suggested he could get President Vladimir Putin to say “great things” about Trump, according to several people who have been briefed on his correspondence.

The developer, Felix Sater, predicted in a November 2015 email that he and Trump Organization leaders would soon be celebrating — both one of the biggest residential projects in real estate history and Donald Trump’s election as president, according to two of the people with knowledge of the exchange.

Sater wrote to Trump Organization Executive Vice President Michael Cohen, “something to the effect of, ‘Can you believe two guys from Brooklyn are going to elect a president?’ ” said one person briefed on the email exchange. Sater emigrated to the United States from what was then the Soviet Union when he was 8 and grew up in Brooklyn.

Trump never went to Moscow as Sater proposed. And although investors and Trump’s company signed a letter of intent, they lacked the land and permits to proceed and the project was abandoned at the end of January 2016, just before the presidential primaries began, several people familiar with the proposal said.
AYFKM? This was going on while he was running? With Sater, the shadiest person imaginable, who Trump claimed not to know?
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on August 27, 2017 [40 favorites]




In other words, he tweeted "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!" a year after he had a signed letter of intent to build a massive building in Russia.
posted by zachlipton at 6:06 PM on August 27, 2017 [33 favorites]


We have to begin to come to terms with the idea that the President; yes, the American President; has told an untruth 😢
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:08 PM on August 27, 2017 [36 favorites]


Bostonians are just not having it - somebody used the city 311 system to report a Trump voter from NH parking in a resident-only space in the North End.
posted by adamg at 6:09 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]


Mod note: We're moving on from the hawk guy and speculation about his political beliefs.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:19 PM on August 27, 2017 [3 favorites]


Friday afternoon I descended into the Grand Canyon with my backpack on and have stayed offline since then. Unfortunately I did get the Arpaio news before I left the trailhead. But the whole staying offline for a while thing? It's quite choice and I highly recommend it on occasion.
posted by azpenguin at 6:48 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


Over 3000 comments, so...

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD

NEW THREAD


(One more in life's rich tapestry...)
posted by darkstar at 6:54 PM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]



So here's the thing. When you have a city of 4 million people, evacuating is pretty much impossible. When Rita came through a month after Katrina, everyone panicked and the entire city tried to evacuate. Leading to people PARKED on all the highways out of town for DAYS. I was working in a town along a major evacuation route and stalled cars were everywhere. There was no gas to be had, cars were everywhere with no gas. People DIED in their cars from heat, and many, many pets died from the stress. It was a disaster. It took people DAYS to make drives it usually took a couple of hours for.


Every American city has an immense fleet of buses that get used for 2 trips a day, 190 days a year.

And that fleet is sized in proportion to the general population.

The reason evacuations are a shitshow is because we refuse to organize anything better than a shitshow.
posted by ocschwar at 7:18 PM on August 27, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Every American city has an immense fleet of buses that get used for 2 trips a day, 190 days a year.
And that fleet is sized in proportion to the general population. "


Well ... the biggest American cities, with robust transit networks, tend to contract their student transport to general city transit. I have no doubt NYC has a lot of school buses, but not in proportion to their population compared to, say, Indianapolis. Chicago, similarly, transports a huge proportion of their students on city buses. Moreover, the proportion of students in a particular school district who receive transit services can be as low as 10%, or as high as 90%, depending on geography, density, historical accidents of schools and neighborhoods, etc.

(Also the whole point of staggering elementary, junior high, and high school start times is that you can get at least 6 trips a day out of those buses.)

Staging school buses to help with evacuations is a good idea. But they don't scale with population necessarily you may be looking at 1/3 of the capacity you think. You'll also be pulling school buses from elsewhere in the state or from nearby states, which is totally legitimate and doable, but that will mean cancelling school in districts NOT affected by the natural disaster, which will mean many parents who can't go to work or need alternate care arrangements, and there's a very large knock-on effect for local economies when school buses don't run. You would have to work out the state paying for drop-in daycare centers when buses are diverted, or paying employers not to lay off or penalize workers who don't come to work (or forbidding them by law from doing so), paying hourly employees who lose wages because they can't work without school in session, and paying all the districts who have to make up days at the end of the year for those makeup days. This is all doable. But it's not as simple as "divert the buses." Diverting the buses fucks up a lot of people's lives, and costs a lot of money, and you'd have to mitigate that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:23 PM on August 27, 2017 [17 favorites]


ty for the new thread darkstar
🥛🍪🍪
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:44 PM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]


SakuraK: "Our state legislature is red."

Coming to this late, but this is not quite correct. The Democrats control the Washington House of Representatives. The Republicans control the Senate, because one asshole D is caucusing with the Rs. That could change if the Democrats win the special election in SD-45 on November 7. Go here to help out candidate Manka Dhingra!
posted by Chrysostom at 10:47 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]


Slap*Happy: " Network Solutions was their webhost as well as registrar. Network Solutions has decalred that the old site, with all of its user records and messages, is gone. They will not be permitted to download content, or backup the site or database. They can try to create a brand new blank-slate site with a different name, but Stormfront is now dead."

Is it typical that the hosting company basically owns the data and just allows access if they feel like it?
posted by Mitheral at 10:56 PM on August 27, 2017


Is it typical that the hosting company basically owns the data and just allows access if they feel like it?

It's not really typical, no.

This is an Acceptable Use Policy edge-case, and if Stormfront wants to sue Network Solutions for damages, that's their right, and I look forward to seeing how a judge and/or jury rules.
posted by mikelieman at 12:41 AM on August 28, 2017


Here in Australia they know because voting is compulsory. If you don't vote, you get fined.

Not quite. You have to attend, and get your name crossed off. Once you're in the ballot booth, you're free to leave your ballot paper blank, write “THEY ALL SUCK” on it, draw a penis on it (apparently this happens a lot), or, if you feel so inclined, cast a valid vote.
posted by acb at 3:09 AM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]


Do have bets for other groups being blamed? Because I've seen a number of who I assume are Christian or God believing alt-righters blame Antifa and BLM for bringing about Gods wrath. It will also be their fault if the recovery doesn't go well.

Isn't it usually because we refuse to put gays and disobedient women to death, as mandated in Leviticus?

OTOH, “Harvey” is pretty much the stereotypical Old Jewish Guy name, so there is that...
posted by acb at 3:11 AM on August 28, 2017


Here in Australia they know because voting is compulsory. If you don't vote, you get fined.

For the same reason, 'register to vote' and 'get out the vote' campaigns aren't really a thing in Australia. Australia is having a referendum plebiscite postal plebiscite postal survey on marriage equality, as one of the enduring features of Australian democracy is that one stubborn conservative can fuck things up for everyone for decades. Anyway, they needed to run a 'register to vote' campaign to turn out the youth vote, which was looking pretty grim until the last day when there was a surge of new registrants. The less frothing conservative politicians are rather upset that trying to kick an issue that is well within the remit of parliament out to the electorate has ensured that there's a bunch of newly politically engaged young people on the electoral roll who will, almost certainly, be voting against them in the next election.
posted by Merus at 5:06 AM on August 28, 2017


Is it typical that the hosting company basically owns the data and just allows access if they feel like it?

It's not really typical, no.

This is an Acceptable Use Policy edge-case, and if Stormfront wants to sue Network Solutions for damages, that's their right, and I look forward to seeing how a judge and/or jury rules.


I'm guessing that their terms of service try to limit consequential damages for data loss, even in cases that don't involve the AUP. Webhosting plans typically do. And Stormfront is apparently crawled by Wayback. So huge damages would likely be difficult to show.

(figured I'd leave this here instead of cluttering up the new thread with yesterday's news)
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:51 AM on August 28, 2017


In non-Harvey news, Russian police have arrested two people for treason. Their crime? Letting people know that Russia was trying to help Trump win the 2016 election.

To recap: here in the USA the entire Republican Party is claiming that there anyone who thinks Russia tried to help Trump win is a conspiracy theorist. In Russia people who made public Russian efforts to undermine American democracy and help Trump win are being arrested for treason.

On a related note, don't forget that Kaspersky Labs is owned by a person who used to work for Soviet Military Intelligence and trained by the KGB, who is married to an actual former KGB agent.

We know for an absolute stone cold solid fact that the NSA was given free access to CISCO factories and put NSA modified firmware on a great many routers to assist them in spying.

We know for an absolute stone cold solid fact that Norton and McAfee worked with the FBI to keep FBI malware from showing up on their antivirus scans.

Given all that it probably isn't all that paranoid to suspect that Kaspersky Labs antivirus is compromised by the FSB.

Which means pretty much nothing to you and me, the FSB doesn't give a shit about us. But it does mean that one of the very few sane things the Trump administration has done is ban Kaspersky software from government computers.
posted by sotonohito at 6:31 AM on August 28, 2017 [20 favorites]


I have a friend who works for a company doing website security, and they apparently re-upped their Kaspersky subscription recently, which just boggles me.
posted by tavella at 9:20 AM on August 28, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe they layer it, with Russian software to guard against Five Eyes and American software to guard against the FSB/GRU/Mafiya.
posted by acb at 1:21 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]


and mcafee to guard against the machine elves
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on August 28, 2017 [11 favorites]


For the folks on the Recent Activity page:

NEW THREAD
posted by mbrubeck at 2:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am currently fighting a highly local battle ... It is mind-boggling to me that I have gotten any pushback on this subject ...
posted by deludingmyself at 8:01 PM on August 26 [12 favorites +] [!]


If where I am is any indication ... It. Is. Ridiculous.
posted by deludingmyself at 8:05 PM on August 26 [12 favorites +] [!]


The eponysterical is strong with this one.
posted by hanov3r at 8:44 AM on August 29, 2017


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